Re: [RBW] Re: Loving Tributes to Betty Foy

[Bruce Herbitter]

Riding my '88 Bridgestone MB - 2 in the woods is a blast.
On 2/10/2014 9:47 PM, cyclotourist wrote:

You would be amazed what a solid 90's MTB would do for you.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Show me your albatrosses!

[Tony DeFilippo]

Sean that 'Night Heron' project is stunning!  How do you like the drum
brakes/sa 3 speed?  Is there anything you have to check with the frame to
know the drum brakes arms have something to brace against?

I put together a motobecane mixte for my wife last year that would be a
great candidate for this sort of wheel set.

Tony

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Re: [RBW] What do Rivendell Riders use for tandems?

[Brian Campbell]

I use an old, Tom Ritchey road tandem. I think it is from about 1980. It is 
painted metallic berry (Dupont Imron) and is fillet brazed. It is a truly, 
stunning bike. I got it from the second owner on craigslist in Princeton 
NJ. I have it set up for  my12 yr old son as the stoker and myself as 
captian. Great bike.

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[RBW] Bikes in Monuments Men

[Linkbeak]

Oh I am very excited to see the photos.  I have an Atlantis in production right 
now.  I would love to see some photos of it in process so maybe you caught it.  
Thanks for sharing.

Joyce

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Re: [RBW] Bikes in Monuments Men

[Tony DeFilippo]

Joyce I saw one Atlantis already painted and ready... Also saw one that was
just tubes in a box!

Tony

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[RBW] Re: Chain Line

[George Schick]

Measuring chain line on the rear cog can be tricky, indeed.  It's why I 
gave up years ago and bought a Park CLG-2 chain line gauge (discontinued, 
apparently - don't know what their substitute is, if any).  BTW, they have 
a pretty extensive discussion about chain line measurement and 
shifting/noise issues on their web site 
at http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/chain-line

One thing that puzzles, though, is this statement from Sheldon's discussion 
on the matter:

"… Most bottom brackets made since the mid-'90s are symmetrical, they stick 
out the same amount on each side. If you replace your present bottom 
bracket with one that is, say, 4 mm shorter, it will move the chainline 2 
mm to the left, because it will be 2 mm shorter on each side, and the 
cranks will remain equally spaced from the bicycle's centerline …"

I'm sure this statement is true - I have a symmetrical BB spindle on my Ram 
- *why* is it the case?  Something had to give someplace else in order for 
the spindle to be symmetrical and yet have a crank that lines up properly 
with the rear cogs.  Are newer crankset spyders "dished" in such a way that 
offset the crank arm from the chain rings to maintain proper chain lines? 
 Looking at my bike with the very old (ca. 1975) Sugino 144BCD crank, 
everything seems straight up and down flat, which is why it's coupled to a 
BB with an offset spindle.  So apparently the answer is, yes, they've 
changed over the years and dished the crankset.  Does this factor simplify 
or further complicate chain line calculation?

On Monday, February 10, 2014 2:52:23 PM UTC-6, Jay in Tel Aviv wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the input.
> I tried the magic gear thing and couldn't make it work. Looking at the 
> calculator, I think I now understand why. It shows my 40/16 gear as a 
> perfect match with a 100 link chain and the Sam's 45.5 cm chain stays, as 
> long as there is zero (0) chain stretch. It's way off with just 0.05 inches 
> of stretch over 12 inches of chain.
>
> On Monday, February 10, 2014 7:18:10 PM UTC+2, Jeremy Till wrote:
>>
>> Measuring chainline on the rear cog can be tricky.  My preferred method 
>> is to put a straight edge of some kind across the locknut on the driveside 
>> and measure the distance between the straight edge and the centerline of 
>> the cog.  Then, chainline=(Over locknut spacing of the rear hub)/2 minus 
>> (distance between locknut and cog centerline)
>>
>> Another reason that once I made the commitment that I enjoy SS/fixed 
>> riding, I've vastly preferred to use dedicated fixed or SS hubs which have 
>> a standardized chainline (usually 42mm for track hubs, 52mm for SS MTB 
>> hubs).  It's much easier to measure and dial in chainline at the front with 
>> the proper crank/chainring/BB spindle length combination than at the rear.  
>>
>> On Monday, February 10, 2014 1:15:20 AM UTC-8, Jay in Tel Aviv wrote:
>>>
>>> I've got my Sam Hillborne set up as single speed at the moment, using a 
>>> track cog, spaced and rear derailler.
>>> The setup looks straight enough to my eye, but it does rattle a bit. I'm 
>>> wondering if I've got the chain line a bit off or maybe the spacers are no 
>>> sufficiently tight.
>>> How does one go about measuring chain line? I can't see a simple way to 
>>> get an accurate measurement with a ruler, what with all those pesky pieces 
>>> of metal in the way.
>>>  
>>> If it helps, I'm running a Sugino triple up front with 40/26/bashguard, 
>>> 113 mm BB and a shimano 9 speed cassete hub. I use the 40T chainring pretty 
>>> much exclusively, as there is no FD installed.
>>>  
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jay
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] WTB: Albatross like bars

[Patrick Shea]

Hi Joel:

I have an Albatross bar I'd sell. Installed but never really used now
sitting around. Tales barcons/mtb levers. $35 shipped?

Cheers,
Patrick


On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 4:34 PM, clipsnstaps  wrote:

> To take barons and mt. bike brakes.
> Been a long time since I was here Hope someone has something.
> I also have some Nitto Drops, like new on a bike for years that was not
> ridden much and then, well the women I was seeing and I split so the bike
> has been hanging.
>
> best to all
> Joel
>
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Re: [RBW] Chain Line

[Eric Norris]

Whether your crankset requires a symmetrical or asymmetrical bottom bracket 
depends entirely on how it was designed. Classic Campagnolo Record cranksets, 
for instance, use an asymmetrical bottom bracket, even though the inner face of 
the crank spider is pretty flat. 

Just one more example of how bicycles are a complex and subtle animal.

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com
Web: www.campyonly.com 
Twitter: @campyonlyguy
Blog: campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:21 AM, George Schick  wrote:

> Measuring chain line on the rear cog can be tricky, indeed.  It's why I gave 
> up years ago and bought a Park CLG-2 chain line gauge (discontinued, 
> apparently - don't know what their substitute is, if any).  BTW, they have a 
> pretty extensive discussion about chain line measurement and shifting/noise 
> issues on their web site at 
> http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/chain-line
> 
> One thing that puzzles, though, is this statement from Sheldon's discussion 
> on the matter:
> 
> "... Most bottom brackets made since the mid-'90s are symmetrical, they stick 
> out the same amount on each side. If you replace your present bottom bracket 
> with one that is, say, 4 mm shorter, it will move the chainline 2 mm to the 
> left, because it will be 2 mm shorter on each side, and the cranks will 
> remain equally spaced from the bicycle's centerline ..."
> 
> I'm sure this statement is true - I have a symmetrical BB spindle on my Ram - 
> why is it the case?  Something had to give someplace else in order for the 
> spindle to be symmetrical and yet have a crank that lines up properly with 
> the rear cogs.  Are newer crankset spyders "dished" in such a way that offset 
> the crank arm from the chain rings to maintain proper chain lines?  Looking 
> at my bike with the very old (ca. 1975) Sugino 144BCD crank, everything seems 
> straight up and down flat, which is why it's coupled to a BB with an offset 
> spindle.  So apparently the answer is, yes, they've changed over the years 
> and dished the crankset.  Does this factor simplify or further complicate 
> chain line calculation?
> 
> On Monday, February 10, 2014 2:52:23 PM UTC-6, Jay in Tel Aviv wrote:
> Thanks for all the input.
> I tried the magic gear thing and couldn't make it work. Looking at the 
> calculator, I think I now understand why. It shows my 40/16 gear as a perfect 
> match with a 100 link chain and the Sam's 45.5 cm chain stays, as long as 
> there is zero (0) chain stretch. It's way off with just 0.05 inches of 
> stretch over 12 inches of chain.
> 
> On Monday, February 10, 2014 7:18:10 PM UTC+2, Jeremy Till wrote:
> Measuring chainline on the rear cog can be tricky.  My preferred method is to 
> put a straight edge of some kind across the locknut on the driveside and 
> measure the distance between the straight edge and the centerline of the cog. 
>  Then, chainline=(Over locknut spacing of the rear hub)/2 minus (distance 
> between locknut and cog centerline)
> 
> Another reason that once I made the commitment that I enjoy SS/fixed riding, 
> I've vastly preferred to use dedicated fixed or SS hubs which have a 
> standardized chainline (usually 42mm for track hubs, 52mm for SS MTB hubs).  
> It's much easier to measure and dial in chainline at the front with the 
> proper crank/chainring/BB spindle length combination than at the rear.  
> 
> On Monday, February 10, 2014 1:15:20 AM UTC-8, Jay in Tel Aviv wrote:
> I've got my Sam Hillborne set up as single speed at the moment, using a track 
> cog, spaced and rear derailler.
> The setup looks straight enough to my eye, but it does rattle a bit. I'm 
> wondering if I've got the chain line a bit off or maybe the spacers are no 
> sufficiently tight.
> How does one go about measuring chain line? I can't see a simple way to get 
> an accurate measurement with a ruler, what with all those pesky pieces of 
> metal in the way.
>  
> If it helps, I'm running a Sugino triple up front with 40/26/bashguard, 113 
> mm BB and a shimano 9 speed cassete hub. I use the 40T chainring pretty much 
> exclusively, as there is no FD installed.
>  
> Thanks,
> Jay
> 
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For more options, v

Re: [RBW] Chain Line

[George Schick]

So Eric, would it be fair to say that the crankset/BB pretty much needs to 
be purchased as a "matched" or "mated" pair?   This, of course, is no big 
deal if one is buying something like a Campy "groupo," where everything is 
set up to work together within the same product and model, but it becomes 
very tricky when buying across the market (e.g., a Phil BB and a Sugino 
crankset, like Riv sells).  You'd need to figure out and know in advance 
how the crank is designed before purchasing anything.  Riv says that their 
Sugino/Phil is a match, so I guess I'd have to take their word for it. 
 'Course, the Phil BB as the flexibility to be moved a few millimeters one 
way or the other to compensate a bit, but then this can also change the 
distance (clearance) between the pedal end of a L or R and the respective 
chain stays…


On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 10:51:39 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Whether your crankset requires a symmetrical or asymmetrical bottom 
> bracket depends entirely on how it was designed. Classic Campagnolo Record 
> cranksets, for instance, use an asymmetrical bottom bracket, even though 
> the inner face of the crank spider is pretty flat. 
>
> Just one more example of how bicycles are a complex and subtle animal.
>
> --Eric N
> campyo...@me.com 
> Web: www.campyonly.com 
> Twitter: @campyonlyguy
> Blog: campyonlyguy.blogspot.com 
>
> On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:21 AM, George Schick > 
> wrote:
>
> Measuring chain line on the rear cog can be tricky, indeed.  It's why I 
> gave up years ago and bought a Park CLG-2 chain line gauge (discontinued, 
> apparently - don't know what their substitute is, if any).  BTW, they have 
> a pretty extensive discussion about chain line measurement and 
> shifting/noise issues on their web site at 
> http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/chain-line
>
> One thing that puzzles, though, is this statement from Sheldon's 
> discussion on the matter:
>
> "… Most bottom brackets made since the mid-'90s are symmetrical, they 
> stick out the same amount on each side. If you replace your present bottom 
> bracket with one that is, say, 4 mm shorter, it will move the chainline 2 
> mm to the left, because it will be 2 mm shorter on each side, and the 
> cranks will remain equally spaced from the bicycle's centerline …"
>
> I'm sure this statement is true - I have a symmetrical BB spindle on my 
> Ram - *why* is it the case?  Something had to give someplace else in 
> order for the spindle to be symmetrical and yet have a crank that lines up 
> properly with the rear cogs.  Are newer crankset spyders "dished" in such a 
> way that offset the crank arm from the chain rings to maintain proper chain 
> lines?  Looking at my bike with the very old (ca. 1975) Sugino 144BCD 
> crank, everything seems straight up and down flat, which is why it's 
> coupled to a BB with an offset spindle.  So apparently the answer is, yes, 
> they've changed over the years and dished the crankset.  Does this factor 
> simplify or further complicate chain line calculation?
>
> On Monday, February 10, 2014 2:52:23 PM UTC-6, Jay in Tel Aviv wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for all the input.
>> I tried the magic gear thing and couldn't make it work. Looking at the 
>> calculator, I think I now understand why. It shows my 40/16 gear as a 
>> perfect match with a 100 link chain and the Sam's 45.5 cm chain stays, as 
>> long as there is zero (0) chain stretch. It's way off with just 0.05 inches 
>> of stretch over 12 inches of chain.
>>
>> On Monday, February 10, 2014 7:18:10 PM UTC+2, Jeremy Till wrote:
>>>
>>> Measuring chainline on the rear cog can be tricky.  My preferred method 
>>> is to put a straight edge of some kind across the locknut on the driveside 
>>> and measure the distance between the straight edge and the centerline of 
>>> the cog.  Then, chainline=(Over locknut spacing of the rear hub)/2 minus 
>>> (distance between locknut and cog centerline)
>>>
>>> Another reason that once I made the commitment that I enjoy SS/fixed 
>>> riding, I've vastly preferred to use dedicated fixed or SS hubs which have 
>>> a standardized chainline (usually 42mm for track hubs, 52mm for SS MTB 
>>> hubs).  It's much easier to measure and dial in chainline at the front with 
>>> the proper crank/chainring/BB spindle length combination than at the rear.  
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 10, 2014 1:15:20 AM UTC-8, Jay in Tel Aviv wrote:

 I've got my Sam Hillborne set up as single speed at the moment, using a 
 track cog, spaced and rear derailler.
 The setup looks straight enough to my eye, but it does rattle a bit. 
 I'm wondering if I've got the chain line a bit off or maybe the spacers 
 are 
 no sufficiently tight.
 How does one go about measuring chain line? I can't see a simple way to 
 get an accurate measurement with a ruler, what with all those pesky pieces 
 of metal in the way.
  
 If it helps, I'm running a Sugino triple up front with 40/26/bashguard, 

Re: [RBW] Chain Line

[Eric Norris]

That's exactly correct. The folks at Phil Wood, for instance, are in my 
experience very knowledgeable about the length and style of bottom bracket that 
will match any given crankset.

And ... to make things even more fun, there are slight differences in the 
tapers on square BB spindles between Campagnolo and everything else. You can 
make them work across platforms, but a Campy crankset is best used with a Campy 
bottom bracket.

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com
Web: www.campyonly.com 
Twitter: @campyonlyguy
Blog: campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

On Feb 11, 2014, at 9:12 AM, George Schick  wrote:

> So Eric, would it be fair to say that the crankset/BB pretty much needs to be 
> purchased as a "matched" or "mated" pair?   This, of course, is no big deal 
> if one is buying something like a Campy "groupo," where everything is set up 
> to work together within the same product and model, but it becomes very 
> tricky when buying across the market (e.g., a Phil BB and a Sugino crankset, 
> like Riv sells).  You'd need to figure out and know in advance how the crank 
> is designed before purchasing anything.  Riv says that their Sugino/Phil is a 
> match, so I guess I'd have to take their word for it.  'Course, the Phil BB 
> as the flexibility to be moved a few millimeters one way or the other to 
> compensate a bit, but then this can also change the distance (clearance) 
> between the pedal end of a L or R and the respective chain stays...
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 10:51:39 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
> Whether your crankset requires a symmetrical or asymmetrical bottom bracket 
> depends entirely on how it was designed. Classic Campagnolo Record cranksets, 
> for instance, use an asymmetrical bottom bracket, even though the inner face 
> of the crank spider is pretty flat. 
> 
> Just one more example of how bicycles are a complex and subtle animal.
> 
> --Eric N
> campyo...@me.com
> Web: www.campyonly.com 
> Twitter: @campyonlyguy
> Blog: campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
> 
> On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:21 AM, George Schick  wrote:
> 
>> Measuring chain line on the rear cog can be tricky, indeed.  It's why I gave 
>> up years ago and bought a Park CLG-2 chain line gauge (discontinued, 
>> apparently - don't know what their substitute is, if any).  BTW, they have a 
>> pretty extensive discussion about chain line measurement and shifting/noise 
>> issues on their web site at 
>> http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/chain-line
>> 
>> One thing that puzzles, though, is this statement from Sheldon's discussion 
>> on the matter:
>> 
>> "... Most bottom brackets made since the mid-'90s are symmetrical, they 
>> stick out the same amount on each side. If you replace your present bottom 
>> bracket with one that is, say, 4 mm shorter, it will move the chainline 2 mm 
>> to the left, because it will be 2 mm shorter on each side, and the cranks 
>> will remain equally spaced from the bicycle's centerline ..."
>> 
>> I'm sure this statement is true - I have a symmetrical BB spindle on my Ram 
>> - why is it the case?  Something had to give someplace else in order for the 
>> spindle to be symmetrical and yet have a crank that lines up properly with 
>> the rear cogs.  Are newer crankset spyders "dished" in such a way that 
>> offset the crank arm from the chain rings to maintain proper chain lines?  
>> Looking at my bike with the very old (ca. 1975) Sugino 144BCD crank, 
>> everything seems straight up and down flat, which is why it's coupled to a 
>> BB with an offset spindle.  So apparently the answer is, yes, they've 
>> changed over the years and dished the crankset.  Does this factor simplify 
>> or further complicate chain line calculation?
>> 
>> On Monday, February 10, 2014 2:52:23 PM UTC-6, Jay in Tel Aviv wrote:
>> Thanks for all the input.
>> I tried the magic gear thing and couldn't make it work. Looking at the 
>> calculator, I think I now understand why. It shows my 40/16 gear as a 
>> perfect match with a 100 link chain and the Sam's 45.5 cm chain stays, as 
>> long as there is zero (0) chain stretch. It's way off with just 0.05 inches 
>> of stretch over 12 inches of chain.
>> 
>> On Monday, February 10, 2014 7:18:10 PM UTC+2, Jeremy Till wrote:
>> Measuring chainline on the rear cog can be tricky.  My preferred method is 
>> to put a straight edge of some kind across the locknut on the driveside and 
>> measure the distance between the straight edge and the centerline of the 
>> cog.  Then, chainline=(Over locknut spacing of the rear hub)/2 minus 
>> (distance between locknut and cog centerline)
>> 
>> Another reason that once I made the commitment that I enjoy SS/fixed riding, 
>> I've vastly preferred to use dedicated fixed or SS hubs which have a 
>> standardized chainline (usually 42mm for track hubs, 52mm for SS MTB hubs).  
>> It's much easier to measure and dial in chainline at the front with the 
>> proper crank/chainring/BB spindle length combination than at the rear.  
>> 
>> On Monday, Febru

Re: [RBW] Chain Line

[Daniel Adams]

If you have a crankset that matches the Campy BB specs (length, taper, BB
shell width) for the cooresponding Campy crankset, is the Campy BB still
preferable?

Rivaciously,

Daniel
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 9:15 AM, Eric Norris  wrote:

>  That's exactly correct. The folks at Phil Wood, for instance, are in my
> experience very knowledgeable about the length and style of bottom bracket
> that will match any given crankset.
>
> And ... to make things even more fun, there are slight differences in the
> tapers on square BB spindles between Campagnolo and everything else. You
> can make them work across platforms, but a Campy crankset is best used with
> a Campy bottom bracket.
>
> --Eric N
> campyonly...@me.com
>
> Web: www.campyonly.com
> Twitter: @campyonlyguy
> Blog: campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
>
>  On Feb 11, 2014, at 9:12 AM, George Schick  wrote:
>
>  So Eric, would it be fair to say that the crankset/BB pretty much needs
> to be purchased as a "matched" or "mated" pair?   This, of course, is no
> big deal if one is buying something like a Campy "groupo," where everything
> is set up to work together within the same product and model, but it
> becomes very tricky when buying across the market (e.g., a Phil BB and a
> Sugino crankset, like Riv sells).  You'd need to figure out and know in
> advance how the crank is designed before purchasing anything.  Riv says
> that their Sugino/Phil is a match, so I guess I'd have to take their word
> for it.  'Course, the Phil BB as the flexibility to be moved a few
> millimeters one way or the other to compensate a bit, but then this can
> also change the distance (clearance) between the pedal end of a L or R and
> the respective chain stays...
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 10:51:39 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>>
>>  Whether your crankset requires a symmetrical or asymmetrical bottom
>> bracket depends entirely on how it was designed. Classic Campagnolo Record
>> cranksets, for instance, use an asymmetrical bottom bracket, even though
>> the inner face of the crank spider is pretty flat.
>>
>> Just one more example of how bicycles are a complex and subtle animal.
>>
>> --Eric N
>> campyo...@me.com
>> Web: www.campyonly.com
>> Twitter: @campyonlyguy
>> Blog: campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
>>
>>  On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:21 AM, George Schick  wrote:
>>
>>  Measuring chain line on the rear cog can be tricky, indeed.  It's why I
>> gave up years ago and bought a Park CLG-2 chain line gauge (discontinued,
>> apparently - don't know what their substitute is, if any).  BTW, they have
>> a pretty extensive discussion about chain line measurement and
>> shifting/noise issues on their web site at http://www.parktool.com/
>> blog/repair-help/chain-line
>>
>>  One thing that puzzles, though, is this statement from Sheldon's
>> discussion on the matter:
>>
>> "... Most bottom brackets made since the mid-'90s are symmetrical, they
>> stick out the same amount on each side. If you replace your present bottom
>> bracket with one that is, say, 4 mm shorter, it will move the chainline 2
>> mm to the left, because it will be 2 mm shorter on each side, and the
>> cranks will remain equally spaced from the bicycle's centerline ..."
>>
>> I'm sure this statement is true - I have a symmetrical BB spindle on my
>> Ram - *why* is it the case?  Something had to give someplace else in
>> order for the spindle to be symmetrical and yet have a crank that lines up
>> properly with the rear cogs.  Are newer crankset spyders "dished" in such a
>> way that offset the crank arm from the chain rings to maintain proper chain
>> lines?  Looking at my bike with the very old (ca. 1975) Sugino 144BCD
>> crank, everything seems straight up and down flat, which is why it's
>> coupled to a BB with an offset spindle.  So apparently the answer is, yes,
>> they've changed over the years and dished the crankset.  Does this factor
>> simplify or further complicate chain line calculation?
>>
>> On Monday, February 10, 2014 2:52:23 PM UTC-6, Jay in Tel Aviv wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for all the input.
>>> I tried the magic gear thing and couldn't make it work. Looking at the
>>> calculator, I think I now understand why. It shows my 40/16 gear as a
>>> perfect match with a 100 link chain and the Sam's 45.5 cm chain stays, as
>>> long as there is zero (0) chain stretch. It's way off with just 0.05 inches
>>> of stretch over 12 inches of chain.
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 10, 2014 7:18:10 PM UTC+2, Jeremy Till wrote:

 Measuring chainline on the rear cog can be tricky.  My preferred method
 is to put a straight edge of some kind across the locknut on the driveside
 and measure the distance between the straight edge and the centerline of
 the cog.  Then, chainline=(Over locknut spacing of the rear hub)/2 minus
 (distance between locknut and cog centerline)

 Another reason that once I made the commitment that I enjoy SS/fixed
 riding, I've vastly preferred to use dedicated fixed or SS hubs w

[RBW] Re: FS: 58 Rambouillet Green complete bike - $1400 shipped - bump and price drop

[Franz Kunst]

Hello Dan,
A friend on this list told me about this bike, I'd love to take a look (I 
live in SF).  What's the best way to get in touch?
Thank you!
Franz Kunst



On Monday, February 10, 2014 11:08:30 AM UTC-8, danmc wrote:
>
> Some tire kicking but nothing solid so far. 
>
>
> $50 off for local SF Bay Area sales. 
>
> Open to parting out if someone is interested in the frame or some group of 
> components.
>
> Thanks for looking!
>
>
> -
>
>
> After lots of pondering I have decided to offer up my green 2006 58cm
> Ram for sale.
>
> Need to thin the herd and prep for an unexpected arrival in 6.5 months
> or so. Not a bicycle arrival, either.
>
> It is a great bike. Nice but not perfect shape. Beausage but not too
> much. No dents. I bought the bike from the first owner - time to move
> it forward with a few upgrades.
>
> Some original and some new parts. I had just gotten into replacing the
> bar tape and brake levers when I made the decision so decided to leave
> the brake cables & bar wrap for the new owner to complete. I am
> including new brake cables/ black housing and a package of the natural
> cork tape from RBW to complete things. The brake housing run from the rear 
> TT
> stop to the rear brake is fine and recent so I am leaving that as is.
>
> Here are the build details:
>
> 58 cm Rambouillet:
>
> Mavic Open Pro / Ultegra hubs
> Grand Bois Cypres 30 tires - recent
> Ultegra headset
> Origin 8 brake levers (Tektro R340) - new
> Tektro R539 brakes - recent
> Shimano 105 triple front Der
> Deore LX rear der
> Sugino triple crankset 48/36/26
> Shimano HG-61 11-34 cassette - recent
> Shimano 9-speed chain - recent
> Shimano 9-speed bar ends - indexes properly if you want to go that way.
> Nitto Noodles 46cm
> Nitto Technomic Deluxe stem  8cm
> Nitto 65 seatpost
>
> Not including the saddle, pedals/clips, or bottle cages.
>
>  I am including an extra pair of new in package GB Cypres 30 tires. So 4 
> tires total.
>
>
> Link to some photos: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/3owvcanep0srgok/BC5eyQrHXk
>
> Let me know if there are problems accessing the images.
>
> Questions? Ask away.
>
> Dan
>
> -Marin / Berkeley
>

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Re: [RBW] Chain Line

[Eric Norris]

That would depend on the BB and what your priorities are. Campy bottom brackets 
from the classic era are rebuildable and can last pretty much forever if 
they're taken care of. Many riders, however, prefer sealed units, which Campy 
started making later on. I run both types on my bikes, and they all work well.

Phil bottom brackets are very nice and are rebuildable (although for most folks 
this involves sending the unit back to Phil). I've had issues with Phil BBs 
(bearings failing) that I haven't had with less expensive options.

I haven't tried the new bottom brackets that Jan Heine sells, but they look 
very nice.

--Eric N
www.CampyOnly.com
CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On Feb 11, 2014, at 9:21 AM, Daniel Adams  wrote:
> 
> If you have a crankset that matches the Campy BB specs (length, taper, BB 
> shell width) for the cooresponding Campy crankset, is the Campy BB still 
> preferable?
>  
> Rivaciously,
>  
> Daniel
>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 9:15 AM, Eric Norris  wrote:
>> That’s exactly correct. The folks at Phil Wood, for instance, are in my 
>> experience very knowledgeable about the length and style of bottom bracket 
>> that will match any given crankset.
>> 
>> And … to make things even more fun, there are slight differences in the 
>> tapers on square BB spindles between Campagnolo and everything else. You can 
>> make them work across platforms, but a Campy crankset is best used with a 
>> Campy bottom bracket.
>> 
>> --Eric N
>> campyonly...@me.com
>> 
>> Web: www.campyonly.com 
>> Twitter: @campyonlyguy
>> Blog: campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
>> 
>>> On Feb 11, 2014, at 9:12 AM, George Schick  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So Eric, would it be fair to say that the crankset/BB pretty much needs to 
>>> be purchased as a "matched" or "mated" pair?   This, of course, is no big 
>>> deal if one is buying something like a Campy "groupo," where everything is 
>>> set up to work together within the same product and model, but it becomes 
>>> very tricky when buying across the market (e.g., a Phil BB and a Sugino 
>>> crankset, like Riv sells).  You'd need to figure out and know in advance 
>>> how the crank is designed before purchasing anything.  Riv says that their 
>>> Sugino/Phil is a match, so I guess I'd have to take their word for it.  
>>> 'Course, the Phil BB as the flexibility to be moved a few millimeters one 
>>> way or the other to compensate a bit, but then this can also change the 
>>> distance (clearance) between the pedal end of a L or R and the respective 
>>> chain stays…
>>> 
>>> 
 On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 10:51:39 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
 Whether your crankset requires a symmetrical or asymmetrical bottom 
 bracket depends entirely on how it was designed. Classic Campagnolo Record 
 cranksets, for instance, use an asymmetrical bottom bracket, even though 
 the inner face of the crank spider is pretty flat. 
 
 Just one more example of how bicycles are a complex and subtle animal.
 
 --Eric N
 campyo...@me.com
 Web: www.campyonly.com 
 Twitter: @campyonlyguy
 Blog: campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
 
> On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:21 AM, George Schick  wrote:
> 
> Measuring chain line on the rear cog can be tricky, indeed.  It's why I 
> gave up years ago and bought a Park CLG-2 chain line gauge (discontinued, 
> apparently - don't know what their substitute is, if any).  BTW, they 
> have a pretty extensive discussion about chain line measurement and 
> shifting/noise issues on their web site at 
> http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/chain-line
> 
> One thing that puzzles, though, is this statement from Sheldon's 
> discussion on the matter:
> 
> "… Most bottom brackets made since the mid-'90s are symmetrical, they 
> stick out the same amount on each side. If you replace your present 
> bottom bracket with one that is, say, 4 mm shorter, it will move the 
> chainline 2 mm to the left, because it will be 2 mm shorter on each side, 
> and the cranks will remain equally spaced from the bicycle's centerline …"
> 
> I'm sure this statement is true - I have a symmetrical BB spindle on my 
> Ram - why is it the case?  Something had to give someplace else in order 
> for the spindle to be symmetrical and yet have a crank that lines up 
> properly with the rear cogs.  Are newer crankset spyders "dished" in such 
> a way that offset the crank arm from the chain rings to maintain proper 
> chain lines?  Looking at my bike with the very old (ca. 1975) Sugino 
> 144BCD crank, everything seems straight up and down flat, which is why 
> it's coupled to a BB with an offset spindle.  So apparently the answer 
> is, yes, they've changed over the years and dished the crankset.  Does 
> this factor simplify or further complicate chain line calculation?
> 
>> On Monday, February 10, 2014 2:52:23 PM UTC-6, Jay in Tel A

Re: [RBW] What do Rivendell Riders use for tandems?

[Jonathan Poor]

http://www.bikefriday.com/bicycles/tandem/322

I have a Bike Friday "Family Tandem." It is a twenty inch wheel bike, and 
the small wheels lets you have a lot of flexibility -- It works as well 
with two adults as it does with very little kids in back -- and without the 
clamp on kid tandem crank**.  I rode it to school with my 4 year old 
daughter as the stoker -- (now 13!) and I've also been the stoker myself, 
with my brother up front. It is technically a folding bike, but I've rarely 
taken it apart. It goes nicely up on a Yakima rack on my Volvo 240 wagon.  

** for really little stokers, I have "crank shorteners" which thread in 
where the pedal usually goes, and gives you three shorter options for the 
pedals. 

Another cool thing is the use of a Sachs 3x7 rear hub, which makes a front 
derailleur unnecessary, and lets you run the timing chain on the right 
side, connecting the stoker's small ring to a right side crank in front. -- 
no need for tandem specific cranks.  Also very nice to be able to downshift 
the internal gear 3spd hub when stopped. 

I currently use it mostly to haul groceries with a burley trailer.  

Bike Friday even makes a Family Tandem Triple!

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[RBW] Longboard installation

[Michael Hechmer]

I have recently installed two sets of Longboards after not having used 
plastic fenders for a decade.  The first installation, on Pat's new Betty 
Foy took me somewhat longer than I anticipated, which I attributed to 
inexperience, but came out fine.  The second installation, purchased to 
replace a broken Honjo, (after many years of use) on my Ram has proven to 
be downright frustrating.

Two issues came up; one took a lot of struggle to resolve and the second 
looks unresolvable.  Starting with #2,  the front fender is set about 10 mm 
above the Grand Bois Cerf tire, which allows plenty of clearance for the 
Paul's CP brakes.  But the front tip of the fender sticks up a full 30 mm 
from the tire.  I don't suppose this is a real problem but it does look a 
bit off to my eye.

The second problem was trying to get the fenders, both front and back, 
centered on the tire. They kept pulling off to the left.  Some of this may 
be me but some of the difficulty resides in the new clips.  The SKS fenders 
I remember threaded the stays through the metal clip and then you added a 
plastic cap, and/or cut them off if you wanted to.  I would never cut them 
off unless I was installing the maximum size tire possible and still had a 
lot of stay sticking up, which didn't actually happen.  The new clips 
require estimating the length, cutting the stays, threading the stays 
through the lock nut and cap, then coming back and adjusting the fender 
line at the end of the process.  Because the fenders didn't want to center 
on the tire I repeatedly loosened the nuts to readjust.  Sometimes this 
resulted in the stays springing out of the clips and flinging the 
compression nut across the shop floor.  Of course I needed to take the 
whole thing apart and check that the stays weren't upside down and were 
both the same length. They were right.   I expended a lot of energy 
worrying about whether the stays were too long. or too short.

I watched the installation video on the RBW website twice, which makes it 
look easy, but offers no trouble shooting counsel.

I'm not sure if there is a question in all of this, except maybe, am I all 
alone in the universe?

Michael

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Re: [RBW] Re: Loving Tributes to Betty Foy

[Michael Hechmer]

I'd love to write praises of Betty.  But I can't yet.   Pat rode this bike 
when we were in Ca., but never wants to spend money on herself, so we 
passed.  I leaped when the demo went on sale, so the bike has been 
ridden by lots of folks.

When Betty arrived here my shop was full of "stuff" from the basement which 
was occupying my attention with a new heating system.  I set Betty up in 
the entry foyer and put her together where she still stands getting oohs 
and ahas.  Ask again after winter and mud season.

Michael
Westford, VT  

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:07:35 AM UTC-5, Cecily Walker wrote:
>
> I love riding in the dirt. I was surprised by how much I loved it, but 
> maybe I shouldn't have been - before my osteoarthritis got really bad, I 
> used to love trail running, too. 
>
> I think with a different set of wheels/tires, Betty could take me on most 
> of the trails I'd be happiest on in the area, but I'm pretty sure she isn't 
> North Shore ready. To be honest, I'm not sure I am, either. But I do love a 
> challenge! :-D
>
> On Monday, February 10, 2014 7:47:05 PM UTC-8, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Leah, I must have missed your nearly getting kicked off for your 
>> Betty-love. The Betty Foy is one of Rivendell's best selling bikes, coming 
>> close to the Atlantis IIRC. Maybe not as well represented in this online 
>> space, but holding it's own IRL!!!
>>
>> Cecily, I can't say enough, get whatever bike makes you comfortable out 
>> in the dirt. There's something wonderful about riding a bike in the woods 
>> that is just magical. You don't have to get a full on North Shore approved 
>> bike, but that is your neighborhood! You would be amazed what a solid 90's 
>> MTB would do for you. 
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Cecily Walker wrote:
>>
>>> I'm headed toward the devotee camp myself. A friend just bought a 
>>> super-duper high end downhill mountain bike, and I want to accompany her on 
>>> some of the less strenuous but somewhat demanding single track rides that I 
>>> can't do on the Betty Foy (because I'm too heavy in the saddle). I am 
>>> seriously contemplating adding a Hunqapillar to my Rivendell stable. 
>>>
>>> I have no idea how I'm going to pay for it, but I have no doubt that it 
>>> will eventually happen. 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 10, 2014 12:02:51 PM UTC-8, grrlyrida wrote:

 Six years ago I went to Riv HQ and rode a Betty Foy for half the day. 
 It was one of the best experiences I've had at a bike shop. I guess I was 
 hanging around so long and riding every size of the Betty Foy that I met 
 Grant and he said I should get the larger size. I didn't want to leave. I 
 never bought a Betty Foy. I bought a custom Riv mixte instead. But I 
 remember what a smooth enjoyable ride that Betty was. I was smiling while 
 I 
 rode around Walnut Creek. I was a Riv convert before I rode Betty, but 
 afterward I became a devotee.

 On Saturday, February 8, 2014 6:58:58 PM UTC-8, Cecily Walker wrote:
>
> I've read many loving tributes to Sams, Hilsens, Hunqapillars and 
> other Riv bikes over the last few years, but there is precious little 
> writing out there about the joys of owning and riding a Betty Foy. I'm 
> familiar with Lovely Bicycle's faint praise, and I've read and re-read 
> the 
> posts (and seen the videos) from the women of Let's Go Ride a Bike, but 
> I've always found it odd that there isn't a lot out there about the 
> history 
> of the Betty Foy, the fun people have had in the saddle, or musings about 
> what the Foy has meant to the lucky woman (or man) who owns one. Even 
> Rivendell's site is scant when it comes to copy about the Foy, saying 
> only 
> that you can do equally well on a Betty Foy what you can do on a Sam. 
> That's the equivalent of saying "Yeah, so's your sister." 
>
> And now that Betty Foy (and her brother Yves) are nearing the end of 
> their model lives, I fear that I'll never learn all there is to learn, or 
> read all there is to read about this bike that I've come to love so much. 
> Unless I write it myself, of course...
>
> Feeling thinky on a Saturday night,
> Cecily 
>
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>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Longboard installation

[George Schick]

You're not alone I as far as my experience goes - I detest those new style 
clips and don't use them.  I stick to the old method where I can get 
everything trued up with respect to the tire line and then cut off the 
excess. You can then cut the end-cap part of the new fangled clip and slide 
it over the properly trimmed to length stay.

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 3:23:15 PM UTC-6, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> I have recently installed two sets of Longboards after not having used 
> plastic fenders for a decade.  The first installation, on Pat's new Betty 
> Foy took me somewhat longer than I anticipated, which I attributed to 
> inexperience, but came out fine.  The second installation, purchased to 
> replace a broken Honjo, (after many years of use) on my Ram has proven to 
> be downright frustrating.
>
> Two issues came up; one took a lot of struggle to resolve and the second 
> looks unresolvable.  Starting with #2,  the front fender is set about 10 mm 
> above the Grand Bois Cerf tire, which allows plenty of clearance for the 
> Paul's CP brakes.  But the front tip of the fender sticks up a full 30 mm 
> from the tire.  I don't suppose this is a real problem but it does look a 
> bit off to my eye.
>
> The second problem was trying to get the fenders, both front and back, 
> centered on the tire. They kept pulling off to the left.  Some of this may 
> be me but some of the difficulty resides in the new clips.  The SKS fenders 
> I remember threaded the stays through the metal clip and then you added a 
> plastic cap, and/or cut them off if you wanted to.  I would never cut them 
> off unless I was installing the maximum size tire possible and still had a 
> lot of stay sticking up, which didn't actually happen.  The new clips 
> require estimating the length, cutting the stays, threading the stays 
> through the lock nut and cap, then coming back and adjusting the fender 
> line at the end of the process.  Because the fenders didn't want to center 
> on the tire I repeatedly loosened the nuts to readjust.  Sometimes this 
> resulted in the stays springing out of the clips and flinging the 
> compression nut across the shop floor.  Of course I needed to take the 
> whole thing apart and check that the stays weren't upside down and were 
> both the same length. They were right.   I expended a lot of energy 
> worrying about whether the stays were too long. or too short.
>
> I watched the installation video on the RBW website twice, which makes it 
> look easy, but offers no trouble shooting counsel.
>
> I'm not sure if there is a question in all of this, except maybe, am I all 
> alone in the universe?
>
> Michael
>

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Re: [RBW] Longboard installation

[Tim Gavin]

You are not alone!  I just installed some last night and had the same
issues.

Front tip:  Bend the fork attachment clip to lower the front.  And/or
lengthen the upper stays.  I also find that snugging the fender up to the
bottom of the fork/brake is vital for good alignment.  The bent tip from
the video is a good hint to get them tighter.

Center:  They all seem to curl to one side.  I manhandle them in the
opposite direction (before mounting) to get them to curl back.  You can
also angle the fork attachment clip to the other side (tilt left or right
of vertical) to adjust the centering.  The stay clips/nuts can be fine
tuned to center the rear of the fender, but the front is tricky.  It's even
harder with sidepulls.

The clips and brackets kinda suck because they're so easy to bend.  But
that also means you can bend them to fine-tune your setup.

Tim


On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Michael Hechmer  wrote:

> I have recently installed two sets of Longboards after not having used
> plastic fenders for a decade.  The first installation, on Pat's new Betty
> Foy took me somewhat longer than I anticipated, which I attributed to
> inexperience, but came out fine.  The second installation, purchased to
> replace a broken Honjo, (after many years of use) on my Ram has proven to
> be downright frustrating.
>
> Two issues came up; one took a lot of struggle to resolve and the second
> looks unresolvable.  Starting with #2,  the front fender is set about 10 mm
> above the Grand Bois Cerf tire, which allows plenty of clearance for the
> Paul's CP brakes.  But the front tip of the fender sticks up a full 30 mm
> from the tire.  I don't suppose this is a real problem but it does look a
> bit off to my eye.
>
> The second problem was trying to get the fenders, both front and back,
> centered on the tire. They kept pulling off to the left.  Some of this may
> be me but some of the difficulty resides in the new clips.  The SKS fenders
> I remember threaded the stays through the metal clip and then you added a
> plastic cap, and/or cut them off if you wanted to.  I would never cut them
> off unless I was installing the maximum size tire possible and still had a
> lot of stay sticking up, which didn't actually happen.  The new clips
> require estimating the length, cutting the stays, threading the stays
> through the lock nut and cap, then coming back and adjusting the fender
> line at the end of the process.  Because the fenders didn't want to center
> on the tire I repeatedly loosened the nuts to readjust.  Sometimes this
> resulted in the stays springing out of the clips and flinging the
> compression nut across the shop floor.  Of course I needed to take the
> whole thing apart and check that the stays weren't upside down and were
> both the same length. They were right.   I expended a lot of energy
> worrying about whether the stays were too long. or too short.
>
> I watched the installation video on the RBW website twice, which makes it
> look easy, but offers no trouble shooting counsel.
>
> I'm not sure if there is a question in all of this, except maybe, am I all
> alone in the universe?
>
> Michael
>
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[RBW] Re: Longboard installation

[Michael]

 Michael,
Here is my thread on the same subject.
Or read below.

> I went through the same two problems that you are having with my Fenders.
>
 
1. ON the SKS website, P45's are listed as "Rim 28", which may mean that 
their curve is for 28" rimmed wheels. Maybe that is why the nose sticks out 
like a motorcross bike, and why it is so hard to get them contoured, 
centered, and fenderline right.
 
My front fender nose sticks out on both of my bikes, and the pictures I 
have seen of of RBW bikes they also stick out, including the installation 
video if you pause it carefully to look right at the end.
 
The only solution I know of is to use a front rack or some other doo-dad 
that has a foot that will hold it down.
I have tried a lot of times, but nothing brings it down. Maybe Sheldon nut, 
mounting the bridge behind the fork crown?
 
2. Centering. It is a lot of tweaking to get it right. Just keep trying.
 
a. Maybe loosen dropout eyelet attachment bolt so fender will move freely 
as you adjust the stays, and then after you get everything where you want 
it, just tighten the eyelet bolts then.
b. Loosen all stay nuts and start centering from fork crown to rear stay in 
that order. And for the rear wheel, chainstay attachment to brake 
attachment to rear, in that order, so at least it is orderly.
 
I almost never get the fender perfectly centered, but close enough. Also 
fenderline is never perfect.
I would use metal fenders, but I like the quick release feature of the SKS 
fenders. They look great, too!
 

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[RBW] Re: Longboard installation

[Michael]

>
> Oops, here is the thread. I don't think any solutions were found though.:
>
 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rbw-owners-bunch/sks$20fender/rbw-owners-bunch/2ffukzG8Q48/tmErT6mnQVIJ

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[RBW] Re: Longboard installation

[Michael]

>
> Here is mine:
>
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/70237737@N00/11016791525/in/set-72157633085407086

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[RBW] Re: Longboard installation

[Michael]

>
> And on the Bleriot:
>
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/70237737@N00/11882252364/in/set-72157639592411145

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Re: [RBW] Longboard installation

[Eric Norris]

Same comments as Tim. The front fender (Longboard) on my Blériot also pointed 
up, so I bent the bracket at the fork to make it point a little more downward.

I haven't had problems with the rear fender curling out of line, but the front 
of the front fender insists on pointing a tiny bit off center. I haven't been 
bothered enough to fix it, but I think a little more time with an allen wrench 
would fix that problem.

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com
Web: www.campyonly.com 
Twitter: @campyonlyguy
Blog: campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

On Feb 11, 2014, at 1:39 PM, Tim Gavin  wrote:

> You are not alone!  I just installed some last night and had the same issues.
> 
> Front tip:  Bend the fork attachment clip to lower the front.  And/or 
> lengthen the upper stays.  I also find that snugging the fender up to the 
> bottom of the fork/brake is vital for good alignment.  The bent tip from the 
> video is a good hint to get them tighter.
> 
> Center:  They all seem to curl to one side.  I manhandle them in the opposite 
> direction (before mounting) to get them to curl back.  You can also angle the 
> fork attachment clip to the other side (tilt left or right of vertical) to 
> adjust the centering.  The stay clips/nuts can be fine tuned to center the 
> rear of the fender, but the front is tricky.  It's even harder with sidepulls.
> 
> The clips and brackets kinda suck because they're so easy to bend.  But that 
> also means you can bend them to fine-tune your setup.
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:23 PM, Michael Hechmer  wrote:
> I have recently installed two sets of Longboards after not having used 
> plastic fenders for a decade.  The first installation, on Pat's new Betty Foy 
> took me somewhat longer than I anticipated, which I attributed to 
> inexperience, but came out fine.  The second installation, purchased to 
> replace a broken Honjo, (after many years of use) on my Ram has proven to be 
> downright frustrating.
> 
> Two issues came up; one took a lot of struggle to resolve and the second 
> looks unresolvable.  Starting with #2,  the front fender is set about 10 mm 
> above the Grand Bois Cerf tire, which allows plenty of clearance for the 
> Paul's CP brakes.  But the front tip of the fender sticks up a full 30 mm 
> from the tire.  I don't suppose this is a real problem but it does look a bit 
> off to my eye.
> 
> The second problem was trying to get the fenders, both front and back, 
> centered on the tire. They kept pulling off to the left.  Some of this may be 
> me but some of the difficulty resides in the new clips.  The SKS fenders I 
> remember threaded the stays through the metal clip and then you added a 
> plastic cap, and/or cut them off if you wanted to.  I would never cut them 
> off unless I was installing the maximum size tire possible and still had a 
> lot of stay sticking up, which didn't actually happen.  The new clips require 
> estimating the length, cutting the stays, threading the stays through the 
> lock nut and cap, then coming back and adjusting the fender line at the end 
> of the process.  Because the fenders didn't want to center on the tire I 
> repeatedly loosened the nuts to readjust.  Sometimes this resulted in the 
> stays springing out of the clips and flinging the compression nut across the 
> shop floor.  Of course I needed to take the whole thing apart and check that 
> the stays weren't upside down and were both the same length. They were right. 
>   I expended a lot of energy worrying about whether the stays were too 
> long. or too short.
> 
> I watched the installation video on the RBW website twice, which makes it 
> look easy, but offers no trouble shooting counsel.
> 
> I'm not sure if there is a question in all of this, except maybe, am I all 
> alone in the universe?
> 
> Michael
> 
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Re: [RBW] Longboard installation

[Tim Gavin]

I guess the secret to the front tip-up is:



Hiding it under a rack and/or basket so you never notice it.  :)

Tim

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Re: [RBW] Longboard installation

[Eric Norris]

Here are photos of Monsieur Blérioit's front fender before and after bending 
the mounting tab:

Before:
http://flic.kr/p/iPDLVW 

After:
http://flic.kr/p/jviseA 

Took about 2 minutes to make the adjustment, and the fender line looks much 
better.

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com
Web: www.campyonly.com 
Twitter: @campyonlyguy
Blog: campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

On Feb 11, 2014, at 2:06 PM, Tim Gavin  wrote:

> I guess the secret to the front tip-up is:
> 
> 
> 
> Hiding it under a rack and/or basket so you never notice it.  :)
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
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[RBW] Any metal fenders have QR like longboards?

[Michael]

Was wondering.
Also, do metal fenders pretty much align themselves since they don't bend?

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[RBW] Re: Any metal fenders have QR like longboards?

[Ron Mc]

I love my Honjo fenders and coverage is great


I believe they're as long as longboards.  

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 4:17:35 PM UTC-6, Michael wrote:
>
> Was wondering.
> Also, do metal fenders pretty much align themselves since they don't bend?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any metal fenders have QR like longboards?

[Peter Morgano]

I love metal fenders, personally. I know they are  "less safe"  but they
did fine for over 100 years on millions of bikes.
On Feb 11, 2014 5:47 PM, "Ron Mc"  wrote:

> I love my Honjo fenders and coverage is great
>
>
> 
> I believe they're as long as longboards.
>
> On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 4:17:35 PM UTC-6, Michael wrote:
>>
>> Was wondering.
>> Also, do metal fenders pretty much align themselves since they don't bend?
>>
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[RBW] Re: Any metal fenders have QR like longboards?

[Ron Mc]

they really don't self-align - they snug nicely at the brake/crown mounts, 
but you have to align the rear third by the position on the stay dharuma, 
and the tail end by the length adjustment on the stays.  




On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 4:17:35 PM UTC-6, Michael wrote:
>
> Was wondering.
> Also, do metal fenders pretty much align themselves since they don't bend?
>

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[RBW] Re: Any metal fenders have QR like longboards?

[Scott G.]

Berthouds use plastic clips for the stays that experience has shown
will move when the fender gets hit from the rear.

The Berthouds stay in alignment better than SKS chromoplastics.

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[RBW] Re: Longboard installation

[Bill Lindsay]

If stays are springing things across the shop floor, you should pre-bend 
them so they aren't storing so much stress.  If you don't, those sprung 
stays are in a perpetual tug-o-war on your bike and invariably one side 
will win, and you'll feel like you have to readjust your lame fenders over 
and over.  Eliminate as many of the stored up stresses as possible at 
install-time and you can minimize that.  

I always do the install without the new fangled plastic clip.  Once it is 
dialed, only then do I mark the stays for cutting.  Then I remove, cut, and 
re-install with the new fangled clip in place.  It's time consuming, but it 
takes me a while to get through that bottle of wine, anyway.  

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:23:15 PM UTC-8, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> I have recently installed two sets of Longboards after not having used 
> plastic fenders for a decade.  The first installation, on Pat's new Betty 
> Foy took me somewhat longer than I anticipated, which I attributed to 
> inexperience, but came out fine.  The second installation, purchased to 
> replace a broken Honjo, (after many years of use) on my Ram has proven to 
> be downright frustrating.
>
> Two issues came up; one took a lot of struggle to resolve and the second 
> looks unresolvable.  Starting with #2,  the front fender is set about 10 mm 
> above the Grand Bois Cerf tire, which allows plenty of clearance for the 
> Paul's CP brakes.  But the front tip of the fender sticks up a full 30 mm 
> from the tire.  I don't suppose this is a real problem but it does look a 
> bit off to my eye.
>
> The second problem was trying to get the fenders, both front and back, 
> centered on the tire. They kept pulling off to the left.  Some of this may 
> be me but some of the difficulty resides in the new clips.  The SKS fenders 
> I remember threaded the stays through the metal clip and then you added a 
> plastic cap, and/or cut them off if you wanted to.  I would never cut them 
> off unless I was installing the maximum size tire possible and still had a 
> lot of stay sticking up, which didn't actually happen.  The new clips 
> require estimating the length, cutting the stays, threading the stays 
> through the lock nut and cap, then coming back and adjusting the fender 
> line at the end of the process.  Because the fenders didn't want to center 
> on the tire I repeatedly loosened the nuts to readjust.  Sometimes this 
> resulted in the stays springing out of the clips and flinging the 
> compression nut across the shop floor.  Of course I needed to take the 
> whole thing apart and check that the stays weren't upside down and were 
> both the same length. They were right.   I expended a lot of energy 
> worrying about whether the stays were too long. or too short.
>
> I watched the installation video on the RBW website twice, which makes it 
> look easy, but offers no trouble shooting counsel.
>
> I'm not sure if there is a question in all of this, except maybe, am I all 
> alone in the universe?
>
> Michael
>

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[RBW] Re: Longboard installation

[George Schick]

"… it takes me a while to get through that bottle of wine, anyway …"  Bill, 
I like the way you think/work.  I do the same only in my case it's usually 
a craft beer.  A California brewer by the name of Firestone Walker makes 
these excellent products that get shipped all the way out here to the 
Midwest.


On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:55:20 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> If stays are springing things across the shop floor, you should pre-bend 
> them so they aren't storing so much stress.  If you don't, those sprung 
> stays are in a perpetual tug-o-war on your bike and invariably one side 
> will win, and you'll feel like you have to readjust your lame fenders over 
> and over.  Eliminate as many of the stored up stresses as possible at 
> install-time and you can minimize that.  
>
> I always do the install without the new fangled plastic clip.  Once it is 
> dialed, only then do I mark the stays for cutting.  Then I remove, cut, and 
> re-install with the new fangled clip in place.  It's time consuming, but it 
> takes me a while to get through that bottle of wine, anyway.  
>
> On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:23:15 PM UTC-8, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> I have recently installed two sets of Longboards after not having used 
>> plastic fenders for a decade.  The first installation, on Pat's new Betty 
>> Foy took me somewhat longer than I anticipated, which I attributed to 
>> inexperience, but came out fine.  The second installation, purchased to 
>> replace a broken Honjo, (after many years of use) on my Ram has proven to 
>> be downright frustrating.
>>
>> Two issues came up; one took a lot of struggle to resolve and the second 
>> looks unresolvable.  Starting with #2,  the front fender is set about 10 mm 
>> above the Grand Bois Cerf tire, which allows plenty of clearance for the 
>> Paul's CP brakes.  But the front tip of the fender sticks up a full 30 mm 
>> from the tire.  I don't suppose this is a real problem but it does look a 
>> bit off to my eye.
>>
>> The second problem was trying to get the fenders, both front and back, 
>> centered on the tire. They kept pulling off to the left.  Some of this may 
>> be me but some of the difficulty resides in the new clips.  The SKS fenders 
>> I remember threaded the stays through the metal clip and then you added a 
>> plastic cap, and/or cut them off if you wanted to.  I would never cut them 
>> off unless I was installing the maximum size tire possible and still had a 
>> lot of stay sticking up, which didn't actually happen.  The new clips 
>> require estimating the length, cutting the stays, threading the stays 
>> through the lock nut and cap, then coming back and adjusting the fender 
>> line at the end of the process.  Because the fenders didn't want to center 
>> on the tire I repeatedly loosened the nuts to readjust.  Sometimes this 
>> resulted in the stays springing out of the clips and flinging the 
>> compression nut across the shop floor.  Of course I needed to take the 
>> whole thing apart and check that the stays weren't upside down and were 
>> both the same length. They were right.   I expended a lot of energy 
>> worrying about whether the stays were too long. or too short.
>>
>> I watched the installation video on the RBW website twice, which makes it 
>> look easy, but offers no trouble shooting counsel.
>>
>> I'm not sure if there is a question in all of this, except maybe, am I 
>> all alone in the universe?
>>
>> Michael
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Longboard installation

[Patrick Moore]

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Michael Hechmer  wrote:

> the front tip of the fender sticks up a full 30 mm from the tire
>

If you can, raise the fender at the attachment point behind the fork crown
(if you use the brake bolt mount), if necessary filing the slot deeper.
Successfully improved aesthetics of front PB fender last year this way.

If you bolt underneath, sometimes extending the stays helps, though this
raises its own issues.

>
> The second problem was trying to get the fenders, both front and back,
> centered on the tire.
>

Have not encountered these horrible, new stay clips, I am happy to say.

-- 
Albuquerque, NM, USA

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/

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[RBW] BLUG bike

[Curtis McKenzie]

The head tube on the BLUG bicycle is amazing. Wow!

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Re: [RBW] BLUG bike

[Andrew Letton]

Woohoo!  Top shelf, all the way!  

Is the lucky owner on the list?
cheers,
Andrew




 From: Curtis McKenzie 
To: "rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com"  
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:18 PM
Subject: [RBW] BLUG bike
 


The head tube on the BLUG bicycle is amazing. Wow!  -- 
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[RBW] Re: BLUG bike

[Kellie Stapleton]

What model is IT?

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:18:07 PM UTC-8, Curtis wrote:
>
> The head tube on the BLUG bicycle is amazing. Wow! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: BLUG bike

[Peter Morgano]

Looking at the decals it's a custom.
On Feb 11, 2014 8:46 PM, "Kellie Stapleton" 
wrote:

> What model is IT?
>
> On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:18:07 PM UTC-8, Curtis wrote:
>>
>> The head tube on the BLUG bicycle is amazing. Wow!
>
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[RBW] Re: BLUG bike

[Don Compton]

Is that the contest winner's bike?

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:18:07 PM UTC-8, Curtis wrote:
>
> The head tube on the BLUG bicycle is amazing. Wow! 

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[RBW] Re: BLUG bike

[Ron Mc]

thanks for pointing it out - stunning bike from end to end

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:18:07 PM UTC-6, Curtis wrote:
>
> The head tube on the BLUG bicycle is amazing. Wow! 

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[RBW] Re: BLUG bike

[blakcloud]

Not Liesl’s bike, that one can be found further down in the BLUG.

Very similiar to Sumehra's bike (Also known as SMP on this board. Very nice 
indeed.

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:56:23 PM UTC-5, Don Compton wrote:
>
> Is that the contest winner's bike?
>
> On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:18:07 PM UTC-8, Curtis wrote:
>>
>> The head tube on the BLUG bicycle is amazing. Wow! 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: BLUG bike

[Peter Morgano]

It is stunning, I love the no expense spared look.
On Feb 11, 2014 9:07 PM, "blakcloud"  wrote:

> Not Liesl's bike, that one can be found further down in the BLUG.
>
> Very similiar to Sumehra's bike (Also known as SMP on this board. Very
> nice indeed.
>
> On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:56:23 PM UTC-5, Don Compton wrote:
>>
>> Is that the contest winner's bike?
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:18:07 PM UTC-8, Curtis wrote:
>>>
>>> The head tube on the BLUG bicycle is amazing. Wow!
>>
>>  --
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Re: [RBW] Re: BLUG bike

[Bruce Herbitter]

Looks like some Wilbury and Saluki lugs with lovely curved stays, great 
color scheme.  Gorgeous end result.



On 2/11/2014 7:56 PM, Don Compton wrote:

Is that the contest winner's bike?

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:18:07 PM UTC-8, Curtis wrote:

The head tube on the BLUG bicycle is amazing. Wow! 


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[RBW] Free Riv Readers in Seattle

[rcnute]

Hi, all: I have a bunch of old Readers a local Rivendellian gave me a few 
years back, time to pass them on.  Email me if you're local and want to 
pick them up in north Seattle.  Thanks!

Ryan

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[RBW] Re: BLUG bike

[dougP]

Maybe Glorius?  They had curved stays & fancy lugs.  It's also got the new 
Nitto rear rack with lower pannier bars & short or no tombstone.  Beautiful 
paint scheme.  A lucky someone's Valentines Day present maybe?  

dougP

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 6:04:23 PM UTC-8, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> thanks for pointing it out - stunning bike from end to end
>
> On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:18:07 PM UTC-6, Curtis wrote:
>>
>> The head tube on the BLUG bicycle is amazing. Wow! 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG bike

[Michael]

>
> And just think...that is probably one of the best made and nicest bike 
> frames made in the world right now, not to mention the build. Wow!

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[RBW] Re: BLUG bike

[BSWP]

And again with the flat rear rack - no tombstone hump. A beautiful clean 
look.

- Andrew, Berkeley

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:52:18 PM UTC-8, Michael wrote:
>
> And just think...that is probably one of the best made and nicest bike 
>> frames made in the world right now, not to mention the build. Wow!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Loving Tributes to Betty Foy

[grrlyrida]

That's funny Cecily. I was laughing reading your reply because now I think I 
need to get a Sam for touring. I don't have money and either and I haven't been 
on a tour since 2008, but just in case ...

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[RBW] BLUG bike

[grrlyrida]

That's a gorgeous bike. Similar to my custom but different color, cranks and 
brakes. Plus it has a beautiful back rack. I want that rack!! Oh when will it 
be available?!!!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Multiple grand randonnees on a Rivendell.

[IanA]

@ Iron Rider - good point :) I actually thought I was replying to Larry 
Powers' message.  I was mostly just interested in what RBW randonneuring 
people like to run as pedals/shoes and tires, but probably better asked 
either on a different thread or on the Randon List.  We're going through a 
cold snap here in the north, with temperatures hovering around -30 degrees 
celcius, so any brevets are a long way off.

Ian A.

On Monday, February 10, 2014 8:00:13 AM UTC-7, Iron Rider wrote:
>
> Ian A.
>
> You post a lot of questions here but I'm not sure to whom they are 
> directed? Me? The Olsen bros? The list? Perhaps a new thread might be a 
> better option to get the most helpful responses? 
>
> On Sunday, February 9, 2014 2:35:32 AM UTC-5, IanA wrote:
>>
>> Would be interested to know what width tires/wheel size and pedals you 
>> prefer?  I have a canti LongLow made brevet ready and on 32mm actual 
>> Kojaks. I could go to an actual 37mm with fenders, I think, with some 
>> creativity.  I have flat pedals on the bike and SPDs/mountain bike shoes in 
>> my box of stuff.  I like the idea of trail shoes and flat pedals, but for 
>> longer rides I'm wondering how those would work out. I've done one 400km 
>> and several 200km rides, but none on the Rivendell yet and all my longer 
>> rides were clipped in.  It's been a long while, so getting back to shape is 
>> going to be tough.
>>
>> Ian A/Canada.
>>
>> On Saturday, February 8, 2014 4:36:54 PM UTC-7, Larry Powers wrote:
>>>
>>> The simple answer is that if it was 96 hours anyone could do it.
>>>
>>> I think there is a a minimum speed you are expected to ride plus a 
>>> minimum number hours of sleep you are allotted and this adds up to 90 
>>> hours.  
>>>
>>> I have completed two 1200k Randonnees on my Rambouillet, BMB 2006 and 
>>> PBP 2007.  It takes a huge commitment to train and qualify for a 1200k and 
>>> life has caught up with me for the last few years.  This year I am in the 
>>> hunt to do a 1000k and shoot for PBP next year and I will still be riding 
>>> my Rambouillet.  
>>>
>>> Larry Powers 
>>>  
>>> Get a bicycle.  You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 05:26:36 -0800
>>> From: lamon...@mac.com
>>> To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: [RBW] Re: Multiple grand randonnees on a Rivendell.
>>>
>>> Out of curiosity, why 90 hours rather than an even 4 days?
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> On Saturday, February 8, 2014 6:08:36 AM UTC-7, Iron Rider wrote:
>>>
>>> A 1200k brevet is a 750 mile ride that has to be completed in less than 
>>> 90 hours. Bill and Mark Olsen regularly ride these epic events. Mark rides 
>>> an A. Homer Hilsen. They recently completed an interview describing their 
>>> approach. You can read it here:
>>>
>>> http://eprider.blogspot.com/2014/02/riding-grand-randonees-olsen-brothers.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>  
>>

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