Re: [openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website] Source of translations of future dates (Issue #5769)
aceman444 left a comment (openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website#5769)
The future dates are also used in the string 'Osm:Notes.show.disappear date
html' (This resolved note will disappear from the map in %{disappear_in}.), so
this may be more visible to the users than in the user blocks page.
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Re: [openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website] Source of translations of future dates (Issue #5769)
aceman444 left a comment (openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website#5769) I have a suspicion German language also has this problem with future time intervals. The OSM blocks page writes "in 10 Jahre", instead of "in 10 Jahren", also "in etwa ein Jahr" instead of "in etwa einem Jahr". Intervals in past seem OK, "vor etwa einer Stunde", "vor einem Tag", "vor 3 Tagen". German has declensions too depending on context (grammatical case). But please call a German speaker onto this. -- Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/5769#issuecomment-2723804979 You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Message ID: ___ rails-dev mailing list rails-dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/rails-dev
Re: [openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website] Source of translations of future dates (Issue #5769)
aceman444 left a comment (openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website#5769) Hi, you cannot take a string produced by Rails (or anything) and then just prepend or append any random words to it in OSM strings. That is just invalid Internationalization (i18n) of the program. You must allow for translation of whole strings or sentences, you cannot randomly concatenate strings into a sentence. The added words may change the context of the whole sentence and cause some of the other concatenated parts to require different forms of the translated words. See the discussion at https://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating_talk:OpenStreetMap#About_Osm:User_blocks.helper.short.time_in_future_title/en . -- Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/5769#issuecomment-2712131027 You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Message ID: ___ rails-dev mailing list rails-dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/rails-dev
Re: [openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website] Source of translations of future dates (Issue #5769)
aceman444 left a comment (openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website#5769) Well, that is mostly correct, but it is a coincidence. Some other language may need all 3 forms. And the bug is that even if OSM has that "almost 5 years" string, it only uses it for duration and not for the future form of "in 5 years" string, so the result in OSM is wrong and not what the Translator produced. But I do not suggest to do this, as some other language may then come out wrong. Next time you add a string with some other preposition instead of "in" and there would need to be another form of the words as none of those presented above will be correct. So all the various prepositions (like 'in', 'ago', 'with', 'to') need their own separate strings to translate. Actually the ideal situation would be to present whole sentences where the times are used, like "Created X days ago" (Osm:Api.notes.comment.opened at html) and some language may call you out to do this (as the 3 forms discussed here and then concatenated into other strings like "Osm:Api.notes.comment.opened at html" may not be enough). But then you would need to drop all the hours/day/months/years variants, as it would be insane to have all the combinations. -- Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/5769#issuecomment-2716806003 You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Message ID: ___ rails-dev mailing list rails-dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/rails-dev
Re: [openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website] Source of translations of future dates (Issue #5769)
aceman444 left a comment (openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website#5769)
Maybe other translators are not aware and do not check how the strings are
really used on the webpage. Some of the strings have very good context
descriptions of their usage directly at the weblate interface (thanks!). But
some have none.
I have found the same problem with the future time intervals ('in X months')
exists also in the Czech language (cs).
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Re: [openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website] Source of translations of future dates (Issue #5769)
aceman444 left a comment (openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website#5769)
Yes, in English all the 3 phrases contain the same "almost 10 years", but in
Slovak they should be different.
The phrase "takmer 10 rokmi" is correct when it talks about the past ('X
time-length ago').
But when it is in the future (English 'in X time-length') it should be
different ('takmer 10 rokov'). There are declinations of words in Slovak so the
context is important and simply we need to have full strings in OSM that can be
translated correctly into every language.
I think you currently use 3 forms on the OSM website:
1. ago (in the past)
2. in (in the future)
3. (when talking about duration)
for you currently use the same string (X
days/hours/weeks/years) and that is the bug, as the form of it depends on the
context.
You would need in OSM to have all the strings for translation:
%{count} hours ago
%{count} days ago (Osm:Datetime.distance in words ago.x days)
%{count} weeks ago
%{count} months ago
%{count} years ago
almost %{count} years ago
over %{count} years ago
in %{count} hours
in %{count} days (OSM string missing!)
in %{count} weeks
in %{count} months
in %{count} years
%{count} hours
%{count} days (Osm:User blocks.helper.block duration.days)
%{count} weeks
%{count} months
%{count} years
Of course all of them using the {{PLURAL|||}} syntax. And these strings must
not be concatenated with other strings
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Re: [openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website] Source of translations of future dates (Issue #5769)
aceman444 left a comment (openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website#5769) That is exactly what I propose in comment https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/5769#issuecomment-2715697075 . The 3 different contexts. It is true that in Slovak distance_in_words_duration and distance_in_words_in_future have the same form. But that may not be true for all languages. >Thanks for the additional details. It would be helpful if you can share the >exact slovakian translations of: > * A duration of time: "about 10 years" This would be "približne 10 rokov". > * A time in the future: "in about 10 years" This would be "o približne 10 rokov". > * Describing something ending in the future: "Ends in about 10 years". This would be "Končí o približne 10 rokov". In Slovak you can in this case prepend "Ends" before the "in about 10 years" . But it again may not work in other languages. But if you offered the full string for translation (which would be the ideal case) you have the problem as described below. > As far as I can see so far, we have a few issues here. > * We can't translate every sentence that contains a duration, future time > or past time separately. We have [13 different types of > time](https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/blob/432fa57e61c5535eb955ee50529aa43b18787fe4/config/locales/en.yml#L165-L201), > and each of those need a language-dependent number of translations (normally > 2-4) and we use dates in many different places on the website. So some sort > of consolidation and interpolation is necessary. Correct. You would have to drop those 13 types of time. If there was only one, then you could provide every sentence complete for translation. Most of them are only used for past times (e.g. creation times of something). Only the block times are in the future. > * rails has a few [time > helpers](https://api.rubyonrails.org/classes/ActionView/Helpers/DateHelper.html), > and by default they use the same translation scope for every helper. (Some > of the helpers are also slightly misleadingly named). > > * We currently have two sources of time translations: > > * rails-i18n, which we use for durations and future times > * our own > [distance_in_words_ago](https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/blob/432fa57e61c5535eb955ee50529aa43b18787fe4/config/locales/en.yml#L164) > which [we use for past > times](https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/blob/master/app/helpers/application_helper.rb#L28-L34%5D(https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/blob/432fa57e61c5535eb955ee50529aa43b18787fe4/app/helpers/application_helper.rb#L28-L34)) > > * I think the problem might be that some translations in rails-i18n are > correct for past times, and therefore not durations or future times (e.g. > slovakian, see > [sk](https://github.com/svenfuchs/rails-i18n/blob/5e37210c8d3506f8b6925c67752d85fbee15a2a4/rails/locale/sk.yml#L77)) > but others are correct for durations/future times (e.g. > [de](https://github.com/svenfuchs/rails-i18n/blob/5e37210c8d3506f8b6925c67752d85fbee15a2a4/rails/locale/de.yml#L96)), > see also [Better translations for time_ago_in_words > #2255](https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/2255). Correct, Rails only has one form of the words and does not distinguish which (future or past) context you need. So it has one and serves it to OSM and it is then used wrongly into concatenated strings. It fails for Slovak, but may be correct in other languages. If you say different languages actually have different contexts (past/future) written in that 1 Rails form, then it is indeed a mess and that may be why not many people complained yet. -- Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/5769#issuecomment-2718469995 You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Message ID: ___ rails-dev mailing list rails-dev@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/rails-dev
