Re: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY

[Cheryl Fay]

Hi Tom,

Are you still looking for a new opportunity ?
Really keen in speaking with you if you are


Cheryl Fay
Lead Resourcing Consultant
Connecting Talent
ASG
Telephone   0845 604 4592 | Mobile  07920 740 028|Email   
cheryl@asginternational.co.uk
Website   www.asginternational.co.uk | 
LinkedIn   http://uk.linkedin.com/in/cherylafay

ASG is the trading name of Advance Recruitment UK Limited which is a company 
registered in England and Wales (registration number 6971194) registered office 
1st Floor, The Exchange, 1 St John Street, Chester, Cheshire, CH1 1DA
2LF

Disclaimer

This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual 
to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of 
the author and do not necessarily represent those of ASG.
The acceptance of CVs, interviewing or engagement by your organisation of a 
candidate introduced by ASG shall be deemed to be an acceptance of our Terms & 
Conditions.

From: python-uk 
[mailto:python-uk-bounces+cheryl.fay=asginternational.co...@python.org] On 
Behalf Of Tom Viner
Sent: 31 December 2012 17:14
To: UK Python Mailing List
Subject: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY


Greeting Christmasy Pythonistas,

I hope you've had a lovely holiday and are raring to go for some group coding, 
dojo style.

This time we're dojoing on a Monday (the 7th), rather than the usual Thursday - 
more convenient for Fry-It, who kindly supply their office for our nefarious 
purposes.

30 tickets, hot off the presses, see you in a week:
http://ldnpydojo.eventwax.com/london-python-code-dojo-season-4-episode-5

Cheers, and Happy New Year!
Tom
@tomviner - @ldnpydojo

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Re: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY

[Harry Percival]

WOOHOO! Let the reply-all madness begin.

Happy New Year, everyone.

Cheryl: embarrassing.  Don't think Tom's ever going to talk to you again...

On 3 January 2013 09:48, Cheryl Fay  wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
>
>
> Are you still looking for a new opportunity ?
>
> Really keen in speaking with you if you are
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheryl Fay
>
> Lead Resourcing Consultant
>
> Connecting Talent
>
> ASG
>
> Telephone   0845 604 4592 | Mobile  07920 740 028|Email
> cheryl@asginternational.co.uk
>
> Website   www.asginternational.co.uk | LinkedIn
> http://uk.linkedin.com/in/cherylafay
>
>
>
> ASG is the trading name of Advance Recruitment UK Limited which is a company
> registered in England and Wales (registration number 6971194) registered
> office 1st Floor, The Exchange, 1 St John Street, Chester, Cheshire, CH1 1DA
>
> 2LF
>
>
> Disclaimer
>
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the
> individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are
> solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ASG.
> The acceptance of CVs, interviewing or engagement by your organisation of a
> candidate introduced by ASG shall be deemed to be an acceptance of our Terms
> & Conditions.
>
>
>
> From: python-uk
> [mailto:python-uk-bounces+cheryl.fay=asginternational.co...@python.org] On
> Behalf Of Tom Viner
> Sent: 31 December 2012 17:14
> To: UK Python Mailing List
> Subject: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY
>
>
>
> Greeting Christmasy Pythonistas,
>
> I hope you've had a lovely holiday and are raring to go for some group
> coding, dojo style.
>
> This time we're dojoing on a Monday (the 7th), rather than the usual
> Thursday - more convenient for Fry-It, who kindly supply their office for
> our nefarious purposes.
>
> 30 tickets, hot off the presses, see you in a week:
> http://ldnpydojo.eventwax.com/london-python-code-dojo-season-4-episode-5
>
> Cheers, and Happy New Year!
> Tom
> @tomviner - @ldnpydojo
>
>
> ___
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> python-uk@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>



-- 
--
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--
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Mobile:  +44 (0) 78877 02511
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Re: [python-uk] python-uk Digest, Vol 113, Issue 2

[Hansel Dunlop]

Wow. That seems like a shockingly inappropriate thing to post on a public
forum.


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:00 AM,  wrote:

> Send python-uk mailing list submissions to
> python-uk@python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> python-uk-requ...@python.org
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> You can reach the person managing the list at
> python-uk-ow...@python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of python-uk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY (Cheryl Fay)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 09:48:01 +
> From: Cheryl Fay 
> To: UK Python Users 
> Subject: Re: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY
> Message-ID:
> <998890ee62943141b562199797b08d0bfb6...@asgserver.asg.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> Are you still looking for a new opportunity ?
> Really keen in speaking with you if you are
>
>
> Cheryl Fay
> Lead Resourcing Consultant
> Connecting Talent
> ASG
> Telephone   0845 604 4592 | Mobile  07920 740 028|Email
> cheryl@asginternational.co.uk<mailto:cheryl@asginternational.co.uk
> >
> Website   www.asginternational.co.uk<http://www.asginternational.co.uk/>
> | LinkedIn   http://uk.linkedin.com/in/cherylafay
>
> ASG is the trading name of Advance Recruitment UK Limited which is a
> company registered in England and Wales (registration number 6971194)
> registered office 1st Floor, The Exchange, 1 St John Street, Chester,
> Cheshire, CH1 1DA
> 2LF
>
> Disclaimer
>
> This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the
> individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are
> solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ASG.
> The acceptance of CVs, interviewing or engagement by your organisation of
> a candidate introduced by ASG shall be deemed to be an acceptance of our
> Terms & Conditions.
>
> From: python-uk [mailto:python-uk-bounces+cheryl.fay=
> asginternational.co...@python.org] On Behalf Of Tom Viner
> Sent: 31 December 2012 17:14
> To: UK Python Mailing List
> Subject: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY
>
>
> Greeting Christmasy Pythonistas,
>
> I hope you've had a lovely holiday and are raring to go for some group
> coding, dojo style.
>
> This time we're dojoing on a Monday (the 7th), rather than the usual
> Thursday - more convenient for Fry-It, who kindly supply their office for
> our nefarious purposes.
>
> 30 tickets, hot off the presses, see you in a week:
> http://ldnpydojo.eventwax.com/london-python-code-dojo-season-4-episode-5
>
> Cheers, and Happy New Year!
> Tom
> @tomviner - @ldnpydojo
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-uk/attachments/20130103/bb2cd533/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> --
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> ___
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>
> --
>
> End of python-uk Digest, Vol 113, Issue 2
> *
>



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[python-uk] Recall: New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY

[Cheryl Fay]

Cheryl Fay would like to recall the message, "[python-uk] New Year's London 
Dojo Next MONDAY".
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[python-uk] Recall: New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY

[Cheryl Fay]

Cheryl Fay would like to recall the message, "[python-uk] New Year's London 
Dojo Next MONDAY".
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[python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Andy Robinson]

As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again.

Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default.   It
used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing
just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was
a general vote to change it.

In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python
developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the
way it currently works?

Best Regards,

-- 
Andy Robinson
Managing Director
ReportLab Europe Ltd.

(I think I am still a list admin...)
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Álex González]

I will find really annoying that a default behaviour reply-to-sender in a
public list.

My 2 cents :)

Happy New Year and see you on the Dojo!


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Andy Robinson  wrote:

> As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again.
>
> Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default.   It
> used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing
> just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was
> a general vote to change it.
>
> In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python
> developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the
> way it currently works?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> --
> Andy Robinson
> Managing Director
> ReportLab Europe Ltd.
>
> (I think I am still a list admin...)
> ___
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> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>



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blog
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Ben Fields]

As a long time lurker, I'm happy with the way it works currently (ie. 
reply-to-list by default). I think it's useful to have to default 
conversation be to the community as a whole, even if that sometimes 
comes with the added benefit of a demonstration of some users email 
skill level.


Plus people can always take conversations off-list as they feel is needed.

Cheers

Ben

On 03/01/13 11:49, Álex González wrote:
I will find really annoying that a default behaviour reply-to-sender 
in a public list.


My 2 cents :)

Happy New Year and see you on the Dojo!


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Andy Robinson > wrote:


As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again.

Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default.   It
used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing
just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was
a general vote to change it.

In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python
developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the
way it currently works?

Best Regards,

--
Andy Robinson
Managing Director
ReportLab Europe Ltd.

(I think I am still a list admin...)
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.ppt and/or .pptx



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--
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**Please note that my email address b.fie...@gold.ac.uk no longer reaches me. 
Please update your address books accordingly.**

Data Analysis Engineer, Musicmetric
Visiting Post-doctoral Researcher, Goldsmiths University of London
e   : m...@benfields.net
m   : +44 (0)796 106 1568
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Walter Prins]

On 3 January 2013 11:49, Álex González  wrote:

> I will find really annoying that a default behaviour reply-to-sender in a
> public list.


Agree with Álex FWIW.  Slightly unfortunate though this mornings
entertainment has been, I don't think it's that big of a deal.  I find it
somewhat infuriating to deal with other lists where the default is the
opposite, where you have to continuously remember to fiddle around with the
reply settings if you want to do what is for me the most common operation
with a list (e.g. reply to the list members), so my vote is to keep it
as-is.

Walter
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Jonathan Lange]

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Andy Robinson  wrote:
> As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again.
>
> Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default.   It
> used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing
> just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was
> a general vote to change it.

http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html makes a compelling case
for choosing 'reply to sender' over 'reply to the list'.

jml
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Daniele Procida]

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, Andy Robinson  wrote:

>Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default.   It
>used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing
>just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was
>a general vote to change it.
>
>In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python
>developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the
>way it currently works?

Yes.

Daniele

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Re: [python-uk] Recall: New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY

[Harry Percival]

I think if you hit "recall message" a third time, it might work...

On 3 January 2013 11:28, Cheryl Fay  wrote:
> Cheryl Fay would like to recall the message, "[python-uk] New Year's London 
> Dojo Next MONDAY".
> ___
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Michael Foord]

On 3 Jan 2013, at 11:40, Andy Robinson  wrote:

> As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again.
> 
> Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default.   It
> used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing
> just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was
> a general vote to change it.
> 
> In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python
> developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the
> way it currently works?
> 


I find "reply-to-list" as the default *much* more user friendly. Pedants be 
damned.

Michael

> Best Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Andy Robinson
> Managing Director
> ReportLab Europe Ltd.
> 
> (I think I am still a list admin...)
> ___
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> 


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May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Andy Robinson]

On 3 January 2013 11:57, Jonathan Lange  wrote:
>
> http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html makes a compelling case
> for choosing 'reply to sender' over 'reply to the list'.
>

Yes, I think the mailman user interface points to this article as well
and recommends the default of 'reply to sender'.

But we had this discussion a few years ago and a clear majority of
people asked for it to be kept the current way.  It still seems this
way.

- Andy
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Antonio Cavallo]

For the added "entertainment" value alone I'll leave as it is!

But on the other end emails like these could lead to people losing their 
job or worst, and only for a momentary lapse of reason (or butter fingers).


So all in weighted, I'm in for changing the reply-to field to the 
originator's email before someone starts to send some "spicy" emails by 
mistake.


Thanks,
Antonio



Jonathan Lange wrote:

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Andy Robinson  wrote:

As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again.

Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default.   It
used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing
just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was
a general vote to change it.


http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html makes a compelling case
for choosing 'reply to sender' over 'reply to the list'.

jml
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Re: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY

[Harry Percival]

Yeah yeah yeah.  Nice attempt at a cover-up Tom.  Are any of Tom's
colleagues or managers on here?  Looks like someone is shopping
around!  Better give Tom a raise...

On 3 January 2013 12:41, Tom Viner  wrote:
> Thanks for the heads up Harry, I'd already archived the email not noticing
> it came via the list serve.
>
> Luckily I do find it all hilarious, especially:
>
> '''Cheryl Fay would like to recall the message, "[python-uk] New Year's
> London Dojo Next MONDAY".'''
>
> Just to confirm, in terms of grammar, you can't *still* be looking for work,
> if you weren't in the first place, similarly nor can you refuse to talk to
> someone *again*.
>
> Anyway, on balance I think the reply to list default makes sense as it is.
> Mistaken reply to list doesn't seem common and today can serve as a reminder
> to all list subscribers to check twice who they're emailing before clicking
> send.
>
> Look forward to seeing everyone on Monday: There are still 4 tickets left,
> book your place now! Cheryl? :-p



-- 
--
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--
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Mobile:  +44 (0) 78877 02511
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Re: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY

[Tom Viner]

Thanks for the heads up Harry, I'd already archived the email not noticing
it came via the list serve.

Luckily I do find it all hilarious, especially:

'''Cheryl Fay would like to recall the message, "[python-uk] New Year's
London Dojo Next MONDAY".'''

Just to confirm, in terms of grammar, you can't *still* be looking for
work, if you weren't in the first place, similarly nor can you refuse to
talk to someone *again*.

Anyway, on balance I think the reply to list default makes sense as it is.
Mistaken reply to list doesn't seem common and today can serve as a
reminder to all list subscribers to check twice who they're emailing before
clicking send.

Look forward to seeing everyone on Monday: There are still 4 tickets left,
book your place now! Cheryl? :-p
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Re: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY

[Tom Viner]

Thanks for the heads up Harry, I'd already archived the email not noticing
it came via the list serve.

Luckily I do find it all hilarious, especially:

'''Cheryl Fay would like to recall the message, "[python-uk] New Year's
London Dojo Next MONDAY".'''

Just to confirm, in terms of grammar, you can't *still* be looking for
work, if you weren't in the first place, similarly nor can you refuse to
talk to someone *again*.

Anyway, on balance I think the reply to list default makes sense as it is.
Mistaken reply to list doesn't seem common and today can serve as a
reminder to all list subscribers to check twice who they're emailing before
clicking send.

Look forward to seeing everyone on Monday: There are still 4 tickets left,
book your place now! Cheryl? :-p
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Alex Willmer]

On 3 January 2013 11:40, Andy Robinson  wrote:
> In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python
> developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the
> way it currently works?

+1 reply-to-list

The convenience of the many outweighs the fat-fingers of the few.

Thanks, Alex
-- 
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Re: [python-uk] New Year's London Dojo Next MONDAY

[Tom Viner]

Nice doing business with you Harry ;-)

On 3 January 2013 12:43, Harry Percival  wrote:

> Yeah yeah yeah.  Nice attempt at a cover-up Tom.  Are any of Tom's
> colleagues or managers on here?  Looks like someone is shopping
> around!  Better give Tom a raise...
>
> On 3 January 2013 12:41, Tom Viner  wrote:
> > Thanks for the heads up Harry, I'd already archived the email not
> noticing
> > it came via the list serve.
> >
> > Luckily I do find it all hilarious, especially:
> >
> > '''Cheryl Fay would like to recall the message, "[python-uk] New Year's
> > London Dojo Next MONDAY".'''
> >
> > Just to confirm, in terms of grammar, you can't *still* be looking for
> work,
> > if you weren't in the first place, similarly nor can you refuse to talk
> to
> > someone *again*.
> >
> > Anyway, on balance I think the reply to list default makes sense as it
> is.
> > Mistaken reply to list doesn't seem common and today can serve as a
> reminder
> > to all list subscribers to check twice who they're emailing before
> clicking
> > send.
> >
> > Look forward to seeing everyone on Monday: There are still 4 tickets
> left,
> > book your place now! Cheryl? :-p
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Harry J.W. Percival
> --
> Twitter: @hjwp
> Mobile:  +44 (0) 78877 02511
> Skype: harry.percival
>
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Steve Barnes]

On 03/01/13 11:40, Andy Robinson wrote:

As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again.

Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default.   It
used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing
just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was
a general vote to change it.

In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python
developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the
way it currently works?

Best Regards,

Yes, (even though with Thunderbird I have separate reply and reply to 
list buttons).


--
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Jon Ribbens]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 11:40:51AM +, Andy Robinson wrote:
> In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python
> developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the
> way it currently works?

No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse
than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list.
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Daniele Procida]

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, Jon Ribbens  wrote:

>On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 11:40:51AM +, Andy Robinson wrote:
>> In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python
>> developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the
>> way it currently works?
>
>No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse
>than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list.

You have to admit it's more entertaining.

Daniele

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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Stestagg]

I'm for keeping it, reply-to-list is easier for me, and definitely more
entertaining, at times

Steve

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Daniele Procida  wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, Jon Ribbens  wrote:
>
> >On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 11:40:51AM +, Andy Robinson wrote:
> >> In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python
> >> developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the
> >> way it currently works?
> >
> >No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse
> >than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list.
>
> You have to admit it's more entertaining.
>
> Daniele
>
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[xtian]

On 3 Jan 2013 15:19, "Jon Ribbens"  wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 11:40:51AM +, Andy Robinson wrote:
> > In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python
> > developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the
> > way it currently works?
>
> No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse
> than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list.

I agree - I had been chortling at the hapless recruiter for hitting
reply-all when she meant reply. I didn't realise that she'd actually hit
reply, in the pretty reasonable expectation that it would do the same thing
it does in (almost) every other circumstance.

While I hope I'd be alert enough to spot the error before sending if I'd
done the same, anyone I've worked with would agree that it's a 50/50 chance
at best, depending on day and mania-level.

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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[meitham]

> No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse
> than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list.
+1
I can't get the new gmail web interface to reply to individual instead
of replying to list, not without composing a new email from scratch.

M
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Jon Ribbens]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 03:21:00PM +, Daniele Procida wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, Jon Ribbens  wrote:
> >On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 11:40:51AM +, Andy Robinson wrote:
> >> In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python
> >> developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the
> >> way it currently works?
> >
> >No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse
> >than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list.
> 
> You have to admit it's more entertaining.

I'm sure there's better ways to find amusement on the Internet related
to people being tripped up by badly-designed technology.
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Jon Ribbens]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 03:47:31PM +, Stestagg wrote:
>I'm for keeping it, reply-to-list is easier for me,

How can it be easier? Does your mail software really not have
'reply to list' or 'reply to all' buttons?
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[David Walker]

+1

You could click the "UK Python Users" address to delete that, then copy and
paste the email address from the original email.
Reply should do what it always does, which is reply to the person who sent
the email.


On 3 January 2013 15:57, meitham  wrote:

> > No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse
> > than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list.
> +1
> I can't get the new gmail web interface to reply to individual instead
> of replying to list, not without composing a new email from scratch.
>
> M
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Daniele Procida]

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, David Walker  wrote:

>You could click the "UK Python Users" address to delete that, then copy and
>paste the email address from the original email.
>Reply should do what it always does, which is reply to the person who sent
>the email.

No, this is a list for discussing things, like this, not just for announcements 
(in which case it would be appropriate for replies to go to back to the sender).

How can it "help UK Python users to form a community, arrange events, advertise 
help or jobs wanted or sought and generally chat" if by default discussions are 
just between individuals?

Daniele

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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Oliver Hilton]

Before this descends into an eternal and excruciatingly dull back and forth on 
the merits of different email clients, operating systems, deities etc.. all of 
which boil down to personal preference (yes despite the fact your own personal 
opinion is clearly the only valid one) can we just run a web vote somewhere if 
required and stick to that.  Ta!

Oli (who is not really bothered either way)

From: python-uk [mailto:python-uk-bounces+oliver.hilton=uktv.co...@python.org] 
On Behalf Of David Walker
Sent: 03 January 2013 16:20
To: UK Python Users
Subject: Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

+1

You could click the "UK Python Users" address to delete that, then copy and 
paste the email address from the original email.
Reply should do what it always does, which is reply to the person who sent the 
email.

On 3 January 2013 15:57, meitham mailto:m...@meitham.com>> 
wrote:
> No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse
> than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list.
+1
I can't get the new gmail web interface to reply to individual instead
of replying to list, not without composing a new email from scratch.

M
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Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on 
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Please note that UKTV monitors e-mails sent or received.
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Jon Ribbens]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 04:25:00PM +, Daniele Procida wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, David Walker  wrote:
> >You could click the "UK Python Users" address to delete that, then copy and
> >paste the email address from the original email.
> >Reply should do what it always does, which is reply to the person who sent
> >the email.
> 
> No, this is a list for discussing things, like this, not just for
> announcements (in which case it would be appropriate for replies to
> go to back to the sender).
> 
> How can it "help UK Python users to form a community, arrange
> events, advertise help or jobs wanted or sought and generally chat"
> if by default discussions are just between individuals?

Who said anything about "by default"?
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Antonio Cavallo]

like this?

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=50e5b456e4b04de5024a

:D

Oliver Hilton wrote:

Before this descends into an eternal and excruciatingly dull back and
forth on the merits of different email clients, operating systems,
deities etc.. all of which boil down to personal preference (yes despite
the fact your own personal opinion is clearly the only valid one) can we
just run a web vote somewhere if required and stick to that. Ta!

Oli (who is not really bothered either way)

*From:*python-uk
[mailto:python-uk-bounces+oliver.hilton=uktv.co...@python.org] *On
Behalf Of *David Walker
*Sent:* 03 January 2013 16:20
*To:* UK Python Users
*Subject:* Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

+1

You could click the "UK Python Users" address to delete that, then copy
and paste the email address from the original email.

Reply should do what it always does, which is reply to the person who
sent the email.

On 3 January 2013 15:57, meitham mailto:m...@meitham.com>>
wrote:

 > No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse
 > than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list.

+1
I can't get the new gmail web interface to reply to individual instead
of replying to list, not without composing a new email from scratch.


M
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This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain
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If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in
reliance on it and notify the sender immediately.
Please note that UKTV monitors e-mails sent or received.
Further communication will signify your consent to this.

UK Channel Management Limited (registered in England and Wales with
number 03322468), UKTV Interactive Limited (registered in England and
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England and Wales with number 02702737), UKTV New Ventures Limited
(registered in England and Wales with number 04266373).
Registered office of the above companies at: 245 Hammersmith Road,
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Jon Ribbens]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 04:41:27PM +, Antonio Cavallo wrote:
> like this?
>
> http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=50e5b456e4b04de5024a

I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard
list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email".
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Antonio Cavallo]

done it for you :)


Jon Ribbens wrote:

"Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email

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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Andy Robinson]

On 3 January 2013 17:07, Jon Ribbens  wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 04:41:27PM +, Antonio Cavallo wrote:
>> like this?
>>
>> http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=50e5b456e4b04de5024a
>
> I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard
> list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email".
> ___

For your info here are the relevant options from the mailman screen

Reply-To: header munging
--
Should any existing Reply-To: header found in the original message be
stripped? If so, this will be done regardless of whether an explict
Reply-To: header is added by Mailman or not.

Options:  Yes or No (currently 'No')


Where are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly
recommended for most mailing lists.

Options:   Poster | This list | Explicit address  (currently "This list")

Explicit Reply-To: header.
[box to fill in if used, currently empty]

--


- Andy
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Michael Foord]

On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens  wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 04:41:27PM +, Antonio Cavallo wrote:
>> like this?
>> 
>> http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=50e5b456e4b04de5024a
> 
> I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard
> list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email".

However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness of your 
desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not any notion of 
correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have expressed an opinion, 
either in this thread or the poll, prefer reply-to-list.

FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very* regularly see 
messages accidentally sent only to the original sender and not to the list. 
This is regularly a (mild) impediment to communication. I very rarely see the 
opposite (public replies that were meant to be private). So the cure is largely 
worse than the disease.

Michael

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--
http://www.voidspace.org.uk/


May you do good and not evil
May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
-- the sqlite blessing 
http://www.sqlite.org/different.html





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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[E Hartley]

On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:13, Michael Foord  wrote:

> 
> On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens  wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 04:41:27PM +, Antonio Cavallo wrote:
>>> like this?
>>> 
>>> http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=50e5b456e4b04de5024a
>> 
>> I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard
>> list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email".
> 
> However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness of your 
> desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not any notion of 
> correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have expressed an opinion, 
> either in this thread or the poll, prefer reply-to-list.
> 
> FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very* regularly see 
> messages accidentally sent only to the original sender and not to the list. 
> This is regularly a (mild) impediment to communication. I very rarely see the 
> opposite (public replies that were meant to be private). So the cure is 
> largely worse than the disease.
> 

For a moment there I thought I was in 1993 not 2013 :)
Ed
> Michael
> 
>> ___
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>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-uk
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
> 
> 
> May you do good and not evil
> May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
> May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
> -- the sqlite blessing 
> http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[René Dudfield]

>>> my['2p'] == 'reply-to-list'
True
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Jon Ribbens]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 05:13:57PM +, Michael Foord wrote:
> On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens  wrote:
> > I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard
> > list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email".
> 
> However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness
> of your desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not
> any notion of correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have
> expressed an opinion, either in this thread or the poll, prefer
> reply-to-list.
> 
> FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very*
> regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender
> and not to the list. This is regularly a (mild) impediment to
> communication. I very rarely see the opposite (public replies that
> were meant to be private). So the cure is largely worse than the
> disease.

You are wrong. HTH.
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Matt Hamilton]

On 3 Jan 2013, at 16:25, Daniele Procida wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, David Walker  wrote:
> 
>> You could click the "UK Python Users" address to delete that, then copy and
>> paste the email address from the original email.
>> Reply should do what it always does, which is reply to the person who sent
>> the email.
> 
> No, this is a list for discussing things, like this, not just for 
> announcements (in which case it would be appropriate for replies to go to 
> back to the sender).

+1

> How can it "help UK Python users to form a community, arrange events, 
> advertise help or jobs wanted or sought and generally chat" if by default 
> discussions are just between individuals?

Indeed, *you* (Daniele) did not send *me* this email. You sent it to the list. 
My replies should by default go back to the list. If you wanted to contact me 
personally you would have emailed me personally. If I wanted to reply privately 
then I would have explicitly done so.

-Matt

-- 
Matt Hamilton, Technical Director
Netsight Internet Solutions Limited
http://www.netsight.co.uk/matth
Tel: 0117 90 90 90 1 Ext. 15

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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[xtian]

Amusingly, you've replied to the wrong person - meitham was the one
complaining about the gmail interface.
I hope you don't mind me cc-ing the list, because it kind of illustrates my
point. ;)

I sent my initial message from a client that had both reply and reply-all
buttons side-by-side, so when beginning my reply I made a decision about
where it should go. Except the reply-to settings on the list meant that
both buttons actually do the same thing. That seems unnecessarily confusing
- nothing to do with correctness.

Similarly, due to those settings, when Walter wanted to send a private
(even though perfectly polite) message to meitham, he accidentally sent it
to me instead.

Anyway, like Oli said, this isn't the kind of thing where people are likely
to change their minds. And it's really not a big deal either way. I guess I
just won't laugh so hard at the next recruiter who does it. And maybe
that's a worthwhile lesson right there. Aren't we all people? Don't we all
love, and die, and eat, and poop?

I love you guys.
xtian

On 3 January 2013 16:58, Walter Prins  wrote:

> Just use the little drop down next to the arrow left top of the mail,
> select "Replay all, " (second menu option) then click the  on
> the list address to remove it if desired.
>
> (Sent from gmail via this method.)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Walter
>
> On 3 January 2013 15:57, meitham  wrote:
>
>> > No. Reply-to-list is almost never correct. There is even less excuse
>> > than usual (which would be almost none) on a "technical" list.
>> +1
>> I can't get the new gmail web interface to reply to individual instead
>> of replying to list, not without composing a new email from scratch.
>
>
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Michael]

On 3 January 2013 17:13, Michael Foord  wrote:

>
> On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens 
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 04:41:27PM +, Antonio Cavallo wrote:
> >> like this?
> >>
> >> http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=50e5b456e4b04de5024a
> >
> > I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard
> > list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email".
>
> However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness of your
> desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not any notion of
> correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have expressed an opinion,
> either in this thread or the poll, prefer reply-to-list
>

+1


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Michael]

On 3 January 2013 17:29, Jon Ribbens  wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 05:13:57PM +, Michael Foord wrote:
> > On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens  
> > wrote:
> > > I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard
> > > list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email".
> >
> > However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness
> > of your desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not
> > any notion of correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have
> > expressed an opinion, either in this thread or the poll, prefer
> > reply-to-list.
> >
> > FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very*
> > regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender
> > and not to the list. This is regularly a (mild) impediment to
> > communication. I very rarely see the opposite (public replies that
> > were meant to be private). So the cure is largely worse than the
> > disease.
>
> You are wrong. HTH.

No, he's not - he's absolutely correct when he says the mailing list
exists to serve its users - not any notion of correctness.


Michael. (noting it's clearly bike shed season)
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Jon Ribbens]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 07:41:31PM +, Michael wrote:
> On 3 January 2013 17:29, Jon Ribbens  wrote:
> > On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 05:13:57PM +, Michael Foord wrote:
> > > On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens  
> > > wrote:
> > > > I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard
> > > > list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email".
> > >
> > > However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness
> > > of your desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not
> > > any notion of correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have
> > > expressed an opinion, either in this thread or the poll, prefer
> > > reply-to-list.
> > >
> > > FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very*
> > > regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender
> > > and not to the list. This is regularly a (mild) impediment to
> > > communication. I very rarely see the opposite (public replies that
> > > were meant to be private). So the cure is largely worse than the
> > > disease.
> >
> > You are wrong. HTH.
> 
> No, he's not - he's absolutely correct when he says the mailing list
> exists to serve its users - not any notion of correctness.

If that was the only thing he'd said I wouldn't've said he was wrong.
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[John Pinner]

On 3 January 2013 11:40, Andy Robinson  wrote:

> As a list admin I supposed I ought to ask this again.
>
> Currently the emails are set to 'reply to the list' by default.   It
> used to be 'reply to sender' but too many people found they were doing
> just that and cutting off conversations, so a few years ago there was
> a general vote to change it.
>
> In the light of this morning's, er, entertainment, are the Python
> developers on this list (well, all but one of them...) happy with the
> way it currently works?
>

Yes.

John
-- 

>
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Michael]

On 3 January 2013 22:41, Jon Ribbens  wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 07:41:31PM +, Michael wrote:
>> On 3 January 2013 17:29, Jon Ribbens  wrote:
>> > On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 05:13:57PM +, Michael Foord wrote:
>> > > On 3 Jan 2013, at 17:07, Jon Ribbens  
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > I don't want either of those options, I want the proper, standard
>> > > > list behaviour, which is "Reply-To unchanged from the sender's email".
>> > >
>> > > However sincerely (and obstinately) you believe in the correctness
>> > > of your desires, the mailing list exists to serve its users - not
>> > > any notion of correctness. The majority of the subscribers who have
>> > > expressed an opinion, either in this thread or the poll, prefer
>> > > reply-to-list.
>> > >
>> > > FWIW on lists where reply-to goes to the individual I *very*
>> > > regularly see messages accidentally sent only to the original sender
>> > > and not to the list. This is regularly a (mild) impediment to
>> > > communication. I very rarely see the opposite (public replies that
>> > > were meant to be private). So the cure is largely worse than the
>> > > disease.
>> >
>> > You are wrong. HTH.
>>
>> No, he's not - he's absolutely correct when he says the mailing list
>> exists to serve its users - not any notion of correctness.
>
> If that was the only thing he'd said I wouldn't've said he was wrong.

Since you're not arguing that he's wrong about the majority of list
posters (here) preferring reply to list, and that the mailing list
exists to serve them, and that any arbitrary notion of correctness
other than that isn't relevant, are you saying that Michael's
perception of what he sees is incorrect?  (cf "I rarely see" and "I
very rarely see")

Or is he wrong about your apparent obstinate belief in your desires ?
(I personally would have said petulant)


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Daniele Procida]

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, Michael  wrote:

>Or is he wrong about your apparent obstinate belief in your desires ?
>(I personally would have said petulant)

That's uncalled-for.

It would be gauche to end up trading insults over reply-to settings, and we 
don't want to be gauche, do we?

Daniele

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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Michael]

On 3 January 2013 23:24, Daniele Procida  wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, Michael  wrote:
>
>>Or is he wrong about your apparent obstinate belief in your desires ?
>>(I personally would have said petulant)
>
> That's uncalled-for.
>
> It would be gauche to end up trading insults over reply-to settings, and we 
> don't want to be gauche, do we?

Very true. I didn't view it or intend it that way, but can see how it
could be. Maybe I've just seen this argument too many times.


Michael.
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Re: [python-uk] The perils of reply-to

[Jon Ribbens]

On Thu, Jan 03, 2013 at 11:40:54PM +, Michael wrote:
> On 3 January 2013 23:24, Daniele Procida  wrote:
> > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013, Michael  wrote:
> >
> >>Or is he wrong about your apparent obstinate belief in your desires ?
> >>(I personally would have said petulant)
> >
> > That's uncalled-for.
> >
> > It would be gauche to end up trading insults over reply-to
> > settings, and we don't want to be gauche, do we?
> 
> Very true. I didn't view it or intend it that way, but can see how it
> could be. Maybe I've just seen this argument too many times.

Makes one wonder why you're trying to have it again then really.
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