Re: Test before PR

[Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer]

ok, thank you!

Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ
Mauritius
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Re: Observations on the List - "Be More Kind"

[Antoon Pardon]

On 10-10-18 04:18, jf...@ms4.hinet.net wrote:
> Richard Damon at 2018.10.9 UTC+8 PM 8:40:29 wrote:
>> Moderators are generally appointed by those who do 'pay the bill' for
>> the mailing list they are moderators for, and serve at their pleasure.
>> Mailing List are generally 'private property', though often made open to
>> the public for general use. The owners of that property, generally have
>> rights to establish rules for the public to use that property (perhaps
>> somewhat constrained by whatever laws are applicable at the physical
>> location that the mailing list server, owner or moderator resides at).
>>
>> Shoot, as in physically, generally no such right; metaphorically, as in
>> sever discipline in list operations, generally yes, though perhaps
>> limited from some grounds based on applicable Laws.
> Then, I respect their right of doing this if it's a 'private property'.
>
> I switched from comp.lang.python to mailing list a few months ago for those 
> spam threads there. Now it seems a bad decision because 1) replied mail can 
> be lost  or duplicated or even banned.

That seems a bit incoherent. How did you think those spam thread are to be 
avoided?

> 2) look at each separately mail is not as comfortable as at a single thread.

Any decent mail client can group related messages in threads.

> 3) Google group is a more free land to live.

Possibly, each has to choose their own priorities. I perfer choosing the medium 
that maximizes
the chance of being noticed after your contribution was allowed, over 
maximizing the chance that 
your contribution will be "allowed", but lessening the chance it will be 
noticed.

-- 
Antoon.

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Re: Observations on the List - "Be More Kind"

[Dan Purgert]

jf...@ms4.hinet.net wrote:
> Chris Angelico at 2018.10.10 UTC+8 AM 10:31:33 wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 1:21 PM  wrote:
>> > [...] 3) Google group is a more free land to live.
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> Well, just be aware that a lot of people block ALL posts that come
>> from Google Groups. [...]
>
> Wild West? haha.. nice metaphor, thanks for reminding. But, in
> cyberspace, I prefer more freedom than more safety:-)

You don't *have* to use GG to get Usenet access.


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Python on 10.14 Mojave

[Kevin Walzer]

I'm trying to build Python 3.7.0 on macOS 10.14, and Tkinter is not 
linking to my installation of Tcl/Tk 8.6.8 in /Library/Frameworks. 
Instead it is linking to the ancient 8.5 Tk installed in 
/System/Library/Frameworks. My usual way of forcing Python to link to my 
installation is to edit setup.py and comment out all search directories 
except /Library/Frameworks, but that seems to be ignored here. Is there 
any other way to link to the correct frameworks?


--
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com
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Python doesn't install

[daankahmann01]

Hi Guys!

I have an annoying problem, I can download Python (from python.org) but it 
won't install on my laptop. If I try to open the installer, it closes again. I 
also don't get a error message. I'm using windows 10. I already tried most of 
the obvious things like restarting, deleting the program and downloading it 
again and I tried windows problem solver from tweaking.com. But nothing seems 
te work. Does anyone know how I might be able to fix this?

Thanks!
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Re: Python on 10.14 Mojave

[Thomas Jollans]

On 2018-10-10 14:52, Kevin Walzer wrote:
> I'm trying to build Python 3.7.0 on macOS 10.14, and Tkinter is not
> linking to my installation of Tcl/Tk 8.6.8 in /Library/Frameworks.
> Instead it is linking to the ancient 8.5 Tk installed in
> /System/Library/Frameworks. My usual way of forcing Python to link to my
> installation is to edit setup.py and comment out all search directories
> except /Library/Frameworks, but that seems to be ignored here. Is there
> any other way to link to the correct frameworks?
> 

My knowledge of macOS is based mostly on hearsay, but I suppose the
usual way would be to specify appropriate ./configure flags -- which
might be mentioned in ./configure --help.

% ./configure --help | grep -i tcl
  --with-tcltk-includes='-I...'
  override search for Tcl and Tk include files
  --with-tcltk-libs='-L...'
  override search for Tcl and Tk libs


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Paul Romer, 2018 Economics Nobel Laureate, uses Python and Jupyter

[jfine2358]

Terry Reedy wrote:

> https://paulromer.net/jupyter-mathematica-and-the-future-of-the-research-paper/
> Jupyter, Mathematica, and the Future of the Research Paper
> Paul Romer, new Nobel prize winner in economics, for research on how 
> ideas interact with economic growth, explained last April why he has 
> switched from Mathematica to Jupyter.

Well done, Terry, for spotting this. I hope you don't mind, I've changed the 
subject to give Paul Romer star billing. I think he deserves it.

Here's some URLs on Romer and Python.

https://qz.com/1417145/economics-nobel-laureate-paul-romer-is-a-python-programming-convert/
https://developers.slashdot.org/story/18/10/09/0042240/economics-nobel-laureate-paul-romer-is-a-python-programming-convert
https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/9mhxq2/this_years_nobel_prize_in_economics_was_awarded/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18173812&ref=hvper.com&utm_source=hvper.com&utm_medium=website
https://www.wsj.com/articles/nobel-in-economics-goes-to-american-pair-1538992672

And some related URLs

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-01322-9 # Future of online publishing
https://pypi.org/project/nobel/ # Python interface to Nobel Prize API!
https://jfine2358.github.io/slides/2018-nature-jupyter-altair-vega-binder.html

And some Python code:

>>> import nobel
>>> api = nobel.Api()
>>> api.prizes.filter(year=2018, category='economics')[0].laureates[1].surname
u'Romer'

-- 
Jonathan


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Re: From Mathematica to Jypyter

[Robin Becker]

On 10/10/2018 02:17, Terry Reedy wrote:

https://paulromer.net/jupyter-mathematica-and-the-future-of-the-research-paper/
Jupyter, Mathematica, and the Future of the Research Paper
Paul Romer, new Nobel prize winner in economics, for research on how ideas interact with economic growth, explained last April why 
he has switched from Mathematica to Jupyter.




I'm a great fan of erroneous spelling and this blog needs a spelling check as 
this quote shows

"Mathematica exemplifies the horde of new Vandals whose pursuit of private gain threatens a far greater pubic loss–the collapse of 
social systems that took centuries to build."


these Vandals are probably not in favour of the #me-too movement either :)
--
Robin Becker

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Re: From Mathematica to Jypyter

[Rhodri James]

On 10/10/18 08:32, Robin Becker wrote:

On 10/10/2018 02:17, Terry Reedy wrote:
https://paulromer.net/jupyter-mathematica-and-the-future-of-the-research-paper/ 


Jupyter, Mathematica, and the Future of the Research Paper
Paul Romer, new Nobel prize winner in economics, for research on how 
ideas interact with economic growth, explained last April why he has 
switched from Mathematica to Jupyter.




I'm a great fan of erroneous spelling and this blog needs a spelling 
check as this quote shows


"Mathematica exemplifies the horde of new Vandals whose pursuit of 
private gain threatens a far greater pubic loss–the collapse of social 
systems that took centuries to build."


these Vandals are probably not in favour of the #me-too movement either :)


OK, colour me confused.  The only spelling mistake I can spot in that is 
in the subject line of this thread.  What am I missing?


--
Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd
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Re: Python doesn't install

[Terry Reedy]

On 10/10/2018 9:53 AM, daankahman...@gmail.com wrote:


I have an annoying problem, I can download Python (from python.org) but it 
won't install on my laptop. If I try to open the installer, it closes again. I 
also don't get a error message. I'm using windows 10. I already tried most of 
the obvious things like restarting, deleting the program and downloading it 
again and I tried windows problem solver from tweaking.com. But nothing seems 
to work. Does anyone know how I might be able to fix this?


Which exact binary?  Have you tried other versions?  Have you installed 
Python before?


--
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: Observations on the List - "Be More Kind"

[Rhodri James]

On 09/10/18 12:12, Rhodri James wrote:

On 08/10/18 20:46, Ethan Furman wrote:

Banning Rick Johnson:

Hopefully no explanation needed [2].


Explanation/justification needed, but given :-)  Again, I killfiled Rick 
ages ago, and I agree his language does justify banning.


Now I've had a chance to go back through the archive (it's been that 
kind of day at work), I'm going to have to recant.  I can't find 
anything that Rick wrote in the week or two before the ban that I would 
call offensive, and not much that even gets as far as irritating.  I can 
think of past instances where his behaviour would have justified a ban, 
but in recent times?  Not really.


That's getting perilously close to banning people because we don't like 
them.  We may be entirely justified in our dislike, but that's not 
enough on its own.  And that, I'm afraid, is very much what the recent 
spate of bans looks like.


--
Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd
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Re: Python doesn't install

[Daan Kahmann]

Op woensdag 10 oktober 2018 19:20:42 UTC+2 schreef Terry Reedy:
> On 10/10/2018 9:53 AM, daankahman...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > I have an annoying problem, I can download Python (from python.org) but it 
> > won't install on my laptop. If I try to open the installer, it closes 
> > again. I also don't get a error message. I'm using windows 10. I already 
> > tried most of the obvious things like restarting, deleting the program and 
> > downloading it again and I tried windows problem solver from tweaking.com. 
> > But nothing seems to work. Does anyone know how I might be able to fix this?
> 
> Which exact binary?  Have you tried other versions?  Have you installed 
> Python before?
> 
> -- 
> Terry Jan Reedy

version 3.7.0, I have tried installing other versions but I get the same 
problem. I have not installed Python on this laptop before.

Daan Kahmann
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Re: From Mathematica to Jypyter

[jfine2358]

Rhodri James wrote:
> Robin Becker wrote:

> > I'm a great fan of erroneous spelling and this blog needs a spelling
> > check as this quote shows

[Paul Romer's blog]
> > "Mathematica exemplifies the horde of new Vandals whose pursuit of
> > private gain threatens a far greater pubic loss–the collapse of social
> > systems that took centuries to build."

> > these Vandals are probably not in favour of the #me-too movement either :)

> OK, colour me confused.  The only spelling mistake I can spot in that is
> in the subject line of this thread.  What am I missing?

In addition to Jypyter for Jupyter, there are TWO typos above. One in
Paul Romer's blog, followed by one in Robin Becker's comment.

-- 
Jonathan
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Re: From Mathematica to Jypyter

[codewizard]

On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 12:09:41 PM UTC-4, Rhodri James wrote:
> On 10/10/18 08:32, Robin Becker wrote:
> > 
> > I'm a great fan of erroneous spelling and this blog needs a spelling 
> > check as this quote shows
> > 
> > "Mathematica exemplifies the horde of new Vandals whose pursuit of 
> > private gain threatens a far greater pubic loss–the collapse of social 
> > systems that took centuries to build."
> > 
> > these Vandals are probably not in favour of the #me-too movement either :)
> 
> OK, colour me confused.  The only spelling mistake I can spot in that is 
> in the subject line of this thread.  What am I missing?

The loss is far greater than a single letter. :)
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Re: Observations on the List - "Be More Kind"

[Ethan Furman]

On 10/10/2018 11:07 AM, Rhodri James wrote:

Now I've had a chance to go back through the archive (it's been that 
kind of day at work), I'm going to have to recant.  I can't find 
anything that Rick wrote in the week or two before the ban


Where are you looking?

--
~Ethan~
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Re: Observations on the List - "Be More Kind"

[Larry Martell]

On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 6:54 AM Bruce Coram  wrote:
>
> I will declare at the outset, I am a lurker.  I don't know enough about
> Python to give advice that I could 100% guarantee would be helpful.
>
> There have been two recent threads that summarise for me where the
> Python Mailing List has lost its way (and this started before Trump
> arrived as a new role model for how to treat your fellow man):

I do not think a Trump reference is approprate here at all. I could
start a political rant here, but I won't.

If you think this list is harsh you must not have been on the internet
very long.

This is a post that was going around back in 1996:

Welcome to the Internet.

No one here likes you.

We're going to offend, insult, abuse, and belittle the living hell out
of you. And when you rail against us with "FUCK YOU YOU GEEK WIMP
SKATER GOTH LOSER PUNK FAG BITCH!1!!", we smile to ourselves. We laugh
at you because you don't get it. Then we turn up the heat, hoping to
draw more entertainment from your irrational fuming.

We will judge you, and we will find you unworthy. It is a trial by
fire, and we won't even think about turning down the flames until you
finally understand.

Some of you are smart enough to realize that, when you go online, it's
like entering a foreign country ... and you know better than to
ignorantly fuck with the locals. You take the time to listen and think
before speaking. You learn, and by learning are gladly welcomed.

For some of you, it takes a while, then one day it all dawns on you -
you get it, and are welcomed into the fold.

Some of you give up, and we breathe a sigh of relief - we didn't want
you here anyway. And some of you just never get it. The offensively
clueless have a special place in our hearts - as objects of ridicule.
We don't like you, but we do love you.

You will get mad. You will tell us to go to hell, and call us "nerds"
and "geeks". Don't bother ... we already know exactly what we are.
And, much like the way hardcore rap has co-opted the word "nigger",
turning an insult around on itself to become a semiserious badge of
honor, so have we done.

"How dare you! I used to beat the crap out of punks like you in high
school/college!" You may have owned the playing field because you were
an athlete. You may have owned the student council because you were
more popular. You may have owned the hallways and sidewalks because
you were big and intimidating. Well, welcome to our world.

Things like athleticism, popularity, and physical prowess mean nothing
here. We place no value on them ... or what car you drive, the size of
your bank account, what you do for a living or where you went to
school.

Allow us to introduce you to the concept of a "meritocracy" - the
closest thing to a form of self-government we have. In The United
Meritocratic nation-states of the Internet, those who can do, rule.
Those who wish to rule, learn. Everyone else watches from the stands.

You may posses everything in the off-line world. We don't care. You
come to the Internet penniless, lacking the only thing of real value
here: knowledge.

"Who cares? The Internet isn't real anyway!" This attitude is
universally unacceptable. The Internet is real. Real people live
behind those handles and screen names. Real machines allow it to
exist. It's real enough to change government policy, real enough to
feed the world's hungry, and even, for some of us, real enough to earn
us a paycheck. Using your own definition, how "real" is your job? Your
stock portfolio? Your political party? What is the meaning of "real",
anyway?

Do I sound arrogant? Sure ... to you. Because you probably don't get it yet.

If you insist on staying, then, at the very least, follow this advice:

1) No one, ESPECIALLY YOU, will make any law respecting an
establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of
the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a
redress of grievances.

2) Use your brain before ever putting fingers to keys.

3) Do you want a picture of you getting anally raped by Bill Clinton
while you're performing oral sex on a cow saved to hundreds of
thousands of people's hard drives? No? Then don't put your fucking
picture on the Internet. We can, will, and probably already HAVE
altered it in awful ways. Expect it to show up on an equally offensive
website.

4) Realize that you are never, EVER going to get that, or any other,
offensive web page taken down. Those of us who run those sites LIVE to
piss off people like you. Those of us who don't run those sites
sometimes visit them just to read the hatemail from fools like you.

5) Oh, you say you're going to a lawyer? Be prepared for us to giggle
with girlish delight, and for your lawyer to laugh in your face after
he explains current copyright and parody law.

6) The Web is not the Internet. Stop referring to it that way.

7) We have already received the e-mail you are abou

Re: Creating dice game : NEED HELP ON CHECKING ELEMENTS IN A LIST

[Neil Cerutti]

On 2018-10-06, eliteanarchyra...@gmail.com
 wrote:
> Hi, I am new to python and would like someones help on the
> following:
>
> After rolling 5 dice and putting the results into a list, I
> need to check if any dice is not a 1 or 5.

if any(roll != 1 and roll != 5 for roll in result):

> # - THIS LINE IS WHERE I NEED HELP  # ( if 2, 3, 4, 6 in list: )
> print("you can roll again")
> else:
> print("you have all 1's and 5's in your result")

Ha! Didn't think I'd get to apply DeMorgan's Law so soon.

-- 
Neil Cerutti
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Python3 packages installation

[Rich Shepard]

  Here, both python-2.7.15 and python3-3.6.6 are installed. Using pip (which
I understand works with both python versions) I was able to install ipython, 
matplotlib, numpy, and pandas. They're all in

/usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages.

  Now I want to install the same packages for python3 so they are are found
also in /usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages. I've not found the proper
command line syntax to do this.

  When I try, for example, 'python3 -m pip install numpy3' the system tells
me that pip is not available. I want to learn how to manage both series
since some of the applications I regularly use require python2 while any
python scripts I now write use python3.

  If there's a document or web site that explains how to manage both
versions please point me to it.

Rich
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Re: Creating dice game : NEED HELP ON CHECKING ELEMENTS IN A LIST

[Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer]

*if any(roll != 1 and roll != 5 for roll in result):*

another extract of py's beauty!

Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer
https://github.com/Abdur-rahmaanJ
Mauritius
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Re: ESR "Waning of Python" post

[Neil Cerutti]

On 2018-10-09, Paul Rubin  wrote:
> If anyone cares, Eric Raymond posted a big rant saying
> basically he's giving up on Python and porting a big program
> he's working on to Go. Reasons he gives are

> performance (Go is 40x faster for his app)
> memory footprint (high overhead of simple Python objects cause
> his 64GB 16 core box to OOM on his data)

As Stephen said, it's sort of silly not to be aware of those
issues going in.

> the GIL (15/16th of his CPUs are unused, of course there are
> ways around that but I'm summarizing what he says even when I
> don't fully agree),

Channels are a big selling point of Go, no argument there. Using
them right is considerably trickier than it appears at first, but
they have good syntax and feel lightweight.

> Unicode (he says Go's uniform use of UTF8 is better than
> Python's bloaty codepoint lists),

Go's system for character encoding is objectively worse, IMHO.

Both Python and Go require you to decode to an internal unicode
storage format on the way into your program, and to encode it
again on the way out.

But the internal storage formats are not equally usable. The
internal storage format is UTF8 in Go, but it's regarded simply as
bytes by most normal operations and functions. You must carefully
use a different set of functions and operators to regard the
bytes as unicode code-points. So Go makes it easy to do things
incorrectly, a la Python 2, which is a benefit only if you just
don't care to do things correctly.

On the other hand, I only used Go until it made me feel really
annoyed that I couldn't build my own data types and interfaces
without feeling like they were 2nd or 3rd class citizens, forced
to carry around heavy, clunking chains, while the builtin types
and interfaces enjoyed unfair syntax and usability privileges.

I tried to be open minded about the error propogation mechanism
in Go, but it remained stubbornly frustrating, especially when
designing my own interface.

> It is ranty and there are parts I don't agree with, but I think
> it is worth reading.  It is around 300 lines, followed by
> several pages of reader comments.
>
> http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=8161

Thanks for sharing it.

-- 
Neil Cerutti
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Re: From Mathematica to Jypyter

[Gregory Ewing]

Rhodri James wrote:
I'm a great fan of erroneous spelling and this blog needs a spelling 
check as this quote shows


"Mathematica exemplifies the horde of new Vandals whose pursuit of 
private gain threatens a far greater pubic loss–the collapse of social 
systems that took centuries to build."


OK, colour me confused.  The only spelling mistake I can spot in that is 
in the subject line of this thread.  What am I missing?


Presumably Romer meant that it was a loss suffered by everyone,
but that's not quite what he wrote.

BTW, an automatic spelling checker wouldn't have helped here.
We really need to redesign English spelling so that it has
error correction built in.

--
Greg
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Re: From Mathematica to Jypyter

[Chris Angelico]

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 8:36 AM Gregory Ewing
 wrote:
>
> BTW, an automatic spelling checker wouldn't have helped here.
> We really need to redesign English spelling so that it has
> error correction built in.

You mean at the level of words, or sentences? A sentence already has
enough redundancy that it's frequently possible to reconstruct the
original intent despite errors (as in this case), but it's impossible
to be 100% certain in all cases without either severely limiting the
forms of communication, or simply increasing redundancy, which will
result in abbreviation.

ChrisA
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Re: Python3 packages installation

[Jim]

On 10/10/2018 03:05 PM, Rich Shepard wrote:
   Here, both python-2.7.15 and python3-3.6.6 are installed. Using pip 
(which
I understand works with both python versions) I was able to install 
ipython, matplotlib, numpy, and pandas. They're all in

/usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages.

   Now I want to install the same packages for python3 so they are are 
found

also in /usr/lib64/python3.6/site-packages. I've not found the proper
command line syntax to do this.

   When I try, for example, 'python3 -m pip install numpy3' the system 
tells

me that pip is not available. I want to learn how to manage both series
since some of the applications I regularly use require python2 while any
python scripts I now write use python3.

   If there's a document or web site that explains how to manage both
versions please point me to it.

Rich


I think you have to first install a package called 'python3-pip'. At 
least that's what I had to do on Ubuntu.


Regards,  Jim

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Re: Python3 packages installation

[Rich Shepard]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018, Jim wrote:


I think you have to first install a package called 'python3-pip'. At least
that's what I had to do on Ubuntu.


Jim,

  Well, it did not occur to me to try a hyphenated name. I'm sure that's the
solution. Thanks for the pointer!

Best regards,

Rich
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Re: From Mathematica to Jypyter

[Thomas Jollans]

On 10/10/2018 23:32, Gregory Ewing wrote:

Rhodri James wrote:
I'm a great fan of erroneous spelling and this blog needs a spelling 
check as this quote shows


"Mathematica exemplifies the horde of new Vandals whose pursuit of 
private gain threatens a far greater pubic loss–the collapse of 
social systems that took centuries to build."


OK, colour me confused.  The only spelling mistake I can spot in that 
is in the subject line of this thread.  What am I missing?


Presumably Romer meant that it was a loss suffered by everyone,
but that's not quite what he wrote.


Sure it is. He's contrasting *private* gain with *public* loss. If there 
is any ambiguity here it is whether there is a threat *of* a public 
loss, or *to* a public loss ^_^


Still, there is a mistake here (and just the one) – that's not the right 
way to use an en-dash.




BTW, an automatic spelling checker wouldn't have helped here.
We really need to redesign English spelling so that it has
error correction built in.



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Re: From Mathematica to Jypyter

[Chris Angelico]

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 10:09 AM Thomas Jollans  wrote:
>
> On 10/10/2018 23:32, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> > Rhodri James wrote:
> >>> I'm a great fan of erroneous spelling and this blog needs a spelling
> >>> check as this quote shows
> >>>
> >>> "Mathematica exemplifies the horde of new Vandals whose pursuit of
> >>> private gain threatens a far greater pubic loss–the collapse of
> >>> social systems that took centuries to build."
> >>
> >> OK, colour me confused.  The only spelling mistake I can spot in that
> >> is in the subject line of this thread.  What am I missing?
> >
> > Presumably Romer meant that it was a loss suffered by everyone,
> > but that's not quite what he wrote.
>
> Sure it is. He's contrasting *private* gain with *public* loss. If there
> is any ambiguity here it is whether there is a threat *of* a public
> loss, or *to* a public loss ^_^

Now read the quote again, very VERY carefully.

The human brain is very good at ignoring insignificant errors.

(The troll brain is very good at pointing out insignificant errors.)

ChrisA
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Re: From Mathematica to Jypyter

[Thomas Jollans]

On 11/10/2018 01:26, Chris Angelico wrote:

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 10:09 AM Thomas Jollans  wrote:


On 10/10/2018 23:32, Gregory Ewing wrote:

Rhodri James wrote:

I'm a great fan of erroneous spelling and this blog needs a spelling
check as this quote shows

"Mathematica exemplifies the horde of new Vandals whose pursuit of
private gain threatens a far greater pubic loss–the collapse of
social systems that took centuries to build."


OK, colour me confused.  The only spelling mistake I can spot in that
is in the subject line of this thread.  What am I missing?


Presumably Romer meant that it was a loss suffered by everyone,
but that's not quite what he wrote.


Sure it is. He's contrasting *private* gain with *public* loss. If there
is any ambiguity here it is whether there is a threat *of* a public
loss, or *to* a public loss ^_^


Now read the quote again, very VERY carefully.

The human brain is very good at ignoring insignificant errors.

(The troll brain is very good at pointing out insignificant errors.)


... and this is why we need exception tracebacks

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Re: Observations on the List - "Be More Kind"

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 10 October 2018 14:27:32 Larry Martell wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 6:54 AM Bruce Coram  
wrote:
> > I will declare at the outset, I am a lurker.  I don't know enough
> > about Python to give advice that I could 100% guarantee would be
> > helpful.
> >
> > There have been two recent threads that summarise for me where the
> > Python Mailing List has lost its way (and this started before Trump
> > arrived as a new role model for how to treat your fellow man):
>
> I do not think a Trump reference is approprate here at all. I could
> start a political rant here, but I won't.
>
> If you think this list is harsh you must not have been on the internet
> very long.
>
> This is a post that was going around back in 1996:
>
> Welcome to the Internet.
>
> No one here likes you.
>
> We're going to offend, insult, abuse, and belittle the living hell out
> of you. And when you rail against us with "FUCK YOU YOU GEEK WIMP
> SKATER GOTH LOSER PUNK FAG BITCH!1!!", we smile to ourselves. We laugh
> at you because you don't get it. Then we turn up the heat, hoping to
> draw more entertainment from your irrational fuming.
>
> We will judge you, and we will find you unworthy. It is a trial by
> fire, and we won't even think about turning down the flames until you
> finally understand.
>
> Some of you are smart enough to realize that, when you go online, it's
> like entering a foreign country ... and you know better than to
> ignorantly fuck with the locals. You take the time to listen and think
> before speaking. You learn, and by learning are gladly welcomed.
>
> For some of you, it takes a while, then one day it all dawns on you -
> you get it, and are welcomed into the fold.
>
> Some of you give up, and we breathe a sigh of relief - we didn't want
> you here anyway. And some of you just never get it. The offensively
> clueless have a special place in our hearts - as objects of ridicule.
> We don't like you, but we do love you.
>
> You will get mad. You will tell us to go to hell, and call us "nerds"
> and "geeks". Don't bother ... we already know exactly what we are.
> And, much like the way hardcore rap has co-opted the word "nigger",
> turning an insult around on itself to become a semiserious badge of
> honor, so have we done.
>
> "How dare you! I used to beat the crap out of punks like you in high
> school/college!" You may have owned the playing field because you were
> an athlete. You may have owned the student council because you were
> more popular. You may have owned the hallways and sidewalks because
> you were big and intimidating. Well, welcome to our world.
>
> Things like athleticism, popularity, and physical prowess mean nothing
> here. We place no value on them ... or what car you drive, the size of
> your bank account, what you do for a living or where you went to
> school.
>
> Allow us to introduce you to the concept of a "meritocracy" - the
> closest thing to a form of self-government we have. In The United
> Meritocratic nation-states of the Internet, those who can do, rule.
> Those who wish to rule, learn. Everyone else watches from the stands.
>
> You may posses everything in the off-line world. We don't care. You
> come to the Internet penniless, lacking the only thing of real value
> here: knowledge.
>
> "Who cares? The Internet isn't real anyway!" This attitude is
> universally unacceptable. The Internet is real. Real people live
> behind those handles and screen names. Real machines allow it to
> exist. It's real enough to change government policy, real enough to
> feed the world's hungry, and even, for some of us, real enough to earn
> us a paycheck. Using your own definition, how "real" is your job? Your
> stock portfolio? Your political party? What is the meaning of "real",
> anyway?
>
> Do I sound arrogant? Sure ... to you. Because you probably don't get
> it yet.
>
> If you insist on staying, then, at the very least, follow this advice:
>
> 1) No one, ESPECIALLY YOU, will make any law respecting an
> establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
> or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of
> the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a
> redress of grievances.
>
> 2) Use your brain before ever putting fingers to keys.
>
> 3) Do you want a picture of you getting anally raped by Bill Clinton
> while you're performing oral sex on a cow saved to hundreds of
> thousands of people's hard drives? No? Then don't put your fucking
> picture on the Internet. We can, will, and probably already HAVE
> altered it in awful ways. Expect it to show up on an equally offensive
> website.
>
> 4) Realize that you are never, EVER going to get that, or any other,
> offensive web page taken down. Those of us who run those sites LIVE to
> piss off people like you. Those of us who don't run those sites
> sometimes visit them just to read the hatemail from fools like you.
>
> 5) Oh, you say you're going to a lawyer? Be prepared f

Re: Python doesn't install

[Ryan Johnson]

Need more info than that. For a problem as unusual as that, it'll take a
lot of scrutiny to find the problem.
Dump as much info as you can about your system environment and your
existing installations and upload them to https://hastebin.com/  (secure
and private text host).
Include relevant screenshots via Imgur.com and add to a private album (for
access by link only).
Windows eventually needs reinstalling, even in 2018. Sad really.

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 1:12 PM Daan Kahmann 
wrote:

> Op woensdag 10 oktober 2018 19:20:42 UTC+2 schreef Terry Reedy:
> > On 10/10/2018 9:53 AM, daankahman...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > I have an annoying problem, I can download Python (from python.org)
> but it won't install on my laptop. If I try to open the installer, it
> closes again. I also don't get a error message. I'm using windows 10. I
> already tried most of the obvious things like restarting, deleting the
> program and downloading it again and I tried windows problem solver from
> tweaking.com. But nothing seems to work. Does anyone know how I might be
> able to fix this?
> >
> > Which exact binary?  Have you tried other versions?  Have you installed
> > Python before?
> >
> > --
> > Terry Jan Reedy
>
> version 3.7.0, I have tried installing other versions but I get the same
> problem. I have not installed Python on this laptop before.
>
> Daan Kahmann
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>


-- 

If you believe in an open internet, and that you should be free to fix your
own computer and program and modify it without restrictions, join the Free
Software Foundation
 and
the Electronic Frontier Foundation . They protect
your digital rights.


Ryan Everett Johnson
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https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: From Mathematica to Jypyter

[Gregory Ewing]

Chris Angelico wrote:

You mean at the level of words, or sentences?


I mean at the word level, so that a dumb algorithm can find
spelling errors. Auto-correcting errors at the semantic level
would require considerably better AI than we have at the moment.

--
Greg
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https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: From Mathematica to Jypyter

[Gregory Ewing]

Thomas Jollans wrote:
Sure it is. He's contrasting *private* gain with *public* loss. If there 
is any ambiguity here it is whether there is a threat *of* a public 
loss, or *to* a public loss ^_^


I don't think you've spotted the error yet. I'm trying to
provide a clue as to which word you need to examine...

--
Greg
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: ESR "Waning of Python" post

[Gregory Ewing]

Paul Rubin wrote [concerning GIL removal]:

It's weird that Python's designers were willing to mess up the user
language in the 2-to-3 transition but felt that the C API had to be kept
sarcosanct.  Huge opportunities were blown at multiple levels.


You say that as though we had a solution for GIL removal all
thought out and ready to go, and the only thing that stopped us
is that it would have required changing the C API.

But it's not like that at all. As far as I know, all the
attempts that have been made so far to remove the GIL have
led to performance that was less than satisfactory. It's a
hard problem that we haven't found a good solution to yet.

--
Greg
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Re: ESR "Waning of Python" post

[Chris Angelico]

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 4:21 PM Gregory Ewing
 wrote:
>
> Paul Rubin wrote [concerning GIL removal]:
> > It's weird that Python's designers were willing to mess up the user
> > language in the 2-to-3 transition but felt that the C API had to be kept
> > sarcosanct.  Huge opportunities were blown at multiple levels.
>
> You say that as though we had a solution for GIL removal all
> thought out and ready to go, and the only thing that stopped us
> is that it would have required changing the C API.
>
> But it's not like that at all. As far as I know, all the
> attempts that have been made so far to remove the GIL have
> led to performance that was less than satisfactory. It's a
> hard problem that we haven't found a good solution to yet.
>

In actual fact, it's not a problem per-se. It's a design choice, and
every alternative choice tried so far has even worse problems. THAT is
why we still have it.

ChrisA
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