Spam user
Hi all, Could someone remove wucbad...@gmx.com from the group? Thanks Ricardo -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Spam user
Le vendredi 31 mars 2017 10:28:08 UTC+2, Ricardo A Baila a écrit : > Hi all, > > Could someone remove wucbad...@gmx.com from the group? > > Thanks > Ricardo And johnnypopo...@gmx.com as well. Didn't go deep on the issue but could it be @gmx.com the issue? Or at least, as the message is always the same, couldn't admins filter it or something? It's getting to proportions in terms of frequency where it makes the group really unreadable. Best, Ricardo -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Spam user
Ricardo A Baila writes: > Could someone remove wucbad...@gmx.com from the group? Strange, I could not see such messages, neither in the newsgroup (gmane) nor on the ML archives. Are you sure you are not receiving those as private messages? ciao, lele. -- nickname: Lele Gaifax | Quando vivrò di quello che ho pensato ieri real: Emanuele Gaifas | comincerò ad aver paura di chi mi copia. l...@metapensiero.it | -- Fortunato Depero, 1929. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Spam user
On 3/31/2017 5:07 AM, Lele Gaifax wrote: Ricardo A Baila writes: Are you reading through Google Groups? Could someone remove wucbad...@gmx.com from the group? Strange, I could not see such messages, neither in the newsgroup (gmane) nor on the ML archives. If so, send your request to the Google Group admins, who allow much spam filtered out by python.org. And/or switch to reading the python.org list or the news.gmane.org newsgroup mirror. Are you sure you are not receiving those as private messages? GG trash is more likely. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Spam user
Il giorno Fri 31 Mar 2017 10:27:54a, *Ricardo A Baila* ha inviato su comp.lang.python il messaggio news:058a9744-44bf-4e6b-ae1d-28e1e348e...@googlegroups.com. Vediamo cosa ha scritto: > User-Agent: G2/1.0 > > Could someone remove wucbad...@gmx.com from the group? > you better switch to a decent newsreader and learn how to use filters ;) g2 has no plonk list -- /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\ -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=- > http://www.bb2002.it :) < ... [ al lavoro ] ... -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Developing a Python JIT and have trouble
I am building a Python JIT, so I want to change the interp->eval_frame to my
own function.
I built a C++ library which contains EvalFrame function, and then use dlopen
and dlsym to use it. It looks like this:
extern "C" PyObject *EvalFrame(PyFrameObject *f, int throwflag) {
return _PyEval_EvalFrameDefault(f, throwflag);
}
I added following code to Python/pylifecycle.c at function
_Py_InitializeEx_Private(Python version is 3.6.1):
void *pyjit = NULL;
pyjit = dlopen("../cmake-build-debug/libPubbon.dylib", 0);
if (pyjit != NULL) {
interp->eval_frame = (_PyFrameEvalFunction)dlsym(pyjit, "EvalFrame");
//interp->eval_frame = _PyEval_EvalFrameDefault;
}
Then something strange happened. I used LLDB to trace the variables. When it
ran at EvalFrame, the address of f pointer didn't change, but f->f_lineno
changed.
Then when I ran python.exe, I got Segmentation Fault.
Why the address of the pointer didn't change, but the context change?
I am working on Mac OS X and Python 3.6.1. I want to know how to replace
_PyEval_EvalFrameDefault in interp->eval_frame with my own function.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
table class - inheritance, delegation?
Hello, I need to code up a table class, which will be based on numpy arrays. Essentially it needs to behave like a numpy array, but with a variable associated with each array dimension. It must (at least partially) satisfy the API of an existing class. The main reason for the new class is to avoid the creation of new axes and the transpositions that were required for elementwise operations on instances of the original class. So when summing across axes I will retain all the dimensions. My inclination is to go for composition. e.g. (all following code untested) class Table(object): def __init__(self, values, variables): self.values = values # numpy array self.all_variables = variables self.var_ind_map = dict(zip(variables, range(len(variables @property def variables(self): return [v for dim, v in zip(self.values.shape, self.all_variables) if not dim == 1] variables is required by the API. Most binary operators will behave exactly as for numpy arrays. e.g. def __mul__(self, other): return self.__class__(self.values * other.values, self.all_variables) I can write a factory method to generate many of these, and maybe another factory method for __neg__, __pos__, __abs__ etc. But I then have to deal with __rsub__, __rdiv__ etc. and all I'm doing is emulating the behaviour of numpy arrays. I also need to handle multipication / division etc. by e.g. floats in exactly the same way as numpy. What I can't immediately see is a clean way of doing this with delegation. But I'm unsure that inheritance is the best way to go (the class will be very lightweight compared to numpy arrays). Any advice welcome. I'm currently using Python 2.7 (but will make the move to 3 at some point). Cheers. Duncan -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
On 03/29/2017 11:31 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Rick Johnson wrote: [...] Really? How could your clients not notice 60 GB of memory usage unless they are running some kind of mad-dog insane top-of-the-line hardware? (Got Benjamins???) Of course, in the case they are not DARPA scientist supported by a viturally unlimited supply of tax dollars provided by the endless toils of American slave-bots, how could they ignore the thrashing? o_O Did you read the project's README? This is a dramatic reduction from the normal memory usage of this kind of job. So, yes, they *are* going to have top-of-the-line hardware. If you're doing a job that normally would require 256GB of RAM, and instead of being able to run in 40GB, it needs 60GB, are you going to notice? You probably have 64GB or 128GB. ChrisA Actually, it is not memory, but time improvements. Most people won't run models of the size of Spaun, so usually the memory requirements will be much lower Jan -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
On 03/30/2017 02:19 PM, INADA Naoki wrote: FYI, this small patch may fix your issue: https://gist.github.com/methane/8faf12621cdb2166019bbcee65987e99 I can verify that the patch fixes the issue for me. Do you still need more information about the `transitive_closure` function and my usage of sets and frozensets? Or any other way I can be helpful in fixing this? (There are a few questions in this thread that I haven't answered so far, but as the problem seems to be identified it might not be worth spending time on that.) Jan -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Program uses twice as much memory in Python 3.6 than in Python 3.5
Similarly, on macOS 10.12.3 Sierra: % python3.5 Python 3.5.3 (v3.5.3:1880cb95a742, Jan 16 2017, 08:49:46) [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> import sys >>> s = set(range(10)) >>> sys.getsizeof(s) 736 >>> sys.getsizeof(set(s)) 736 >>> sys.getsizeof(set(set(s))) 736 >>> % python3 Python 3.6.0 (v3.6.0:41df79263a11, Dec 22 2016, 17:23:13) [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> import sys >>> s = set(range(10)) >>> sys.getsizeof(s) 736 >>> sys.getsizeof(set(s)) 1248 >>> sys.getsizeof(set(set(s))) 1248 >>> % python2 Python 2.7.13 (v2.7.13:a06454b1afa1, Dec 17 2016, 12:39:47) [GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3)] on darwin Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. >>> import sys >>> s = set(range(10)) >>> sys.getsizeof(s) 744 >>> sys.getsizeof(set(s)) 744 >>> sys.getsizeof(set(set(s))) 744 >>> -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Program Error Help - Python 3.1
Hello I've been coding for about 1 or 2 months and i have encountered a problem
with a 'while' statement. It keeps looping even when the statement is false,
here is the code. The code is for a game that I'm making that resembles the
Oregon Trial.
-Thanks for your help!
import random
deep = random.randint(1, 30)
width = random.randint(15, 50)
print("\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYou have approched a
river.")
answer8 = ""
while answer8 != ("1") or answer8 != ("2"):
print("\nWhat would you like to do?")
print("\t\t 1) Attempt to wade across the river")
print("\t\t 2) Attempt to float across the river")
print("\t\t 3) Find out more about the river.")
answer8 = input("\nWhat is your choice? ")
if answer8 == 3:
print("\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThe river is",
deep, "feet deep and", width, "feet long.")
input("\n\nPress ENTER to continue. ")
if answer8 == 1:
if deep <= 5 and deep >=0:
print("\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYou made it
across.")
input("\n\nPress ENTER to continue. ")
else:
print("\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThere has been
an accendint.")
input("\n\nPress ENTER to continue. ")
if answer8 == 2:
if deep >=6:
print("\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nYou made it
across.")
input("\n\nPress ENTER to continue. ")
else:
print("\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nThere has been
an accendint.")
input("\n\nPress ENTER to continue. ")
input("\n\nPress ENTER to exit. ")
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Program Error Help - Python 3.1
On 3/31/2017 7:12 PM, 2019.cavanau...@fpsedu.org wrote:
Hello I've been coding for about 1 or 2 months
If at all possible, start with 3.6, not 3.1.
and i have encountered a problem with a 'while' statement.
You should assume that your code is buggy. That is true even of experts.
> It keeps looping even when the statement is false,
False.
here is the code.
while answer8 != ("1") or answer8 != ("2"):
which is always True.
--
Terry Jan Reedy
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Program Error Help - Python 3.1
On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 4:16 PM <2019.cavanau...@fpsedu.org> wrote:
> while answer8 != ("1") or answer8 != ("2"):
This statement is always true. Think about it.
>
>
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Program Error Help - Python 3.1
On 31Mar2017 16:12, 2019.cavanau...@fpsedu.org <2019.cavanau...@fpsedu.org>
wrote:
Hello I've been coding for about 1 or 2 months and i have encountered a problem
with a 'while' statement. It keeps looping even when the statement is false,
here is the code. The code is for a game that I'm making that resembles the
Oregon Trial.
Obviously the statement (well, "test") isn't false! Let's look:
[...]
answer8 = ""
while answer8 != ("1") or answer8 != ("2"):
[...]
Answer8 cannot be both "1" and also "2". Therefore, it will always _not_ be
equal to at least one of "1" and "2". Therefore this test is always true.
You might better write this:
while answer8 not in ("1", "2"):
or:
while not( answer8 == "1" or answer8 == "2" ):
BTW, you need to decide whther you're working in strings or integers. input()
in Python 3 returns a string. If you want to test against strings, fine.
However, if you want to test against numbers you need to convert the string to
a number:
answer8n = int(answer8)
and then test against answer8n.
Cheers,
Cameron Simpson
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
VirtualEnvs (venv) and Powershell
Hello everyone, I've just started to investigate VirtualEnvironments as a means of preventing my 3rd party code becoming chaotic. I've discovered that venv's can be managed quite effectively using Powershell. When Activate.ps1 is run, the PowerShell changes to indicate that the venv is active which is nice. However despite the official documention, there doesn't seem to be a corresponding Deactivate.ps1. There is a deactivate.bat but that doesn't appear to switch the paths back to their pre-env state. What I would really like is a Git-Bash based alternative to Powershell to manage my Virtual Environments. Has anyone dicovered tools or techniques to achieve this? Thanks for any response -- Carl -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 12:43:59 AM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote: > Except that it doesn't actually take very much work to call > on someone else's library, which is what you get when you > use Unicode properly. (At least, assuming you're using a > decent language like Python, which comes with Unicode > libraries, and a decent GUI toolkit if you're going that > way.) Really. Since when does Python come with a "decent GUI kit"? > Nope. I can't speak Mandarin, but I can make absolutely > sure that all my programs can accept Chinese characters. A > friend of mine sent me an audio file with a name that > included some Chinese, and I was able to handle it no > problem. Most people just quietly change the filename and move on, but if you want to spend the extra time worrying about every foreign charactor, you certainly have that right. But you don't have a right to lecture everyone else about your new found religion. Sometimes, as we pat our self-righteous selves on the back, we forget that our incessant proselytizing for the "religion of inclusivity" is only helping multi-national corporations attain evermore market share (...somewhere, in a corporate penthouse perched high above the peasants who scurry below, a CEO dons a most devilish grin...). The iPhone has come to dominate every market in the world. And in some ways (being a revolutionary device and all) this is good, however there are downsides to this complete and total domination. Indeed, the iPhone customer has become something of a bedazzled twit, lusting after whatever superficial marking ploys are pulled from Jobs' decomposing arse. What does this have to do with coders, you ask? Well, we are merely pawns in a greater game... > >> [ ] Uses no diacritical marks > > > > Why is it my responsibility to encode my text with > > pronunciation tutorials? Are we adults here or what? > > > >> [ ] Writes all text top-to-bottom, left-to-right > > > > Not my problem. Learn the King's English or go wait for > > extinction to arrive. > > And these two cement your parochialism thoroughly in > everyone's minds. "Pronunciation tutorials", eh? Sure. Tell > that to everyone who speaks Spanish, Turkish, Norwegian, > German, or Vietnamese, all of which use diacritical marks > to distinguish between letters. English is the weird > language in that it uses letter pairs instead of adorned > letters (eg "ch" and "sh" instead of "ç" and "ş"). Well, it seems the designers of English knew a thing or two about time machines long before GvR did. Hmm, that makes wonder if ol' GvR ever worked at a patent office...? > Also, which king are you referring to, exactly? Whose > English do you speak? Only "right-proper English", old chap. ;-) > > The only justification required is the bottom line. If your > > products generate profit, then you're doing something > > right. Besides, you don't need _everyone_ on the planet to > > buy your product to be a success. Unlike the business > > practices of Apple, we would be wise to leave plenty of > > room for others to enter the market. Competition is good > > for everyone. Monopolies are evil. > > Riight. What's the "bottom line" for open source > software? How do you measure whether your product is > generating a profit or not? Easy. You count the number of active community members. You also closely observe the "community health tends" over time. Having a small community today is not necessarily a bad thing if the community is healthy and growing. OTOH, a large unhealthy community today could be a ghost town tomorrow. Biologist refer to that phenomenon as extinction. Which is neither good nor profitable. Rectangular sheets of paper with dead presidents printed on them are not the only source of profits. Crowd sourcing can be quite a profitable enterprise even in the absence of money -- that is, *IF*, and only *IF* -- you invest the time required to lower barriers of entry and foster participation from diverse external sources. Social homogeny and intellectual isolation lead to collective oblivion. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Rick Johnson wrote: > On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 12:43:59 AM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote: >> Except that it doesn't actually take very much work to call >> on someone else's library, which is what you get when you >> use Unicode properly. (At least, assuming you're using a >> decent language like Python, which comes with Unicode >> libraries, and a decent GUI toolkit if you're going that >> way.) > > Really. Since when does Python come with a "decent GUI kit"? I didn't say it came with one; I said you should use (a) a decent language, and (b) a decent GUI toolkit. Both do exist, but with Python, the best GUI toolkits are installed with pip rather than being part of the standard library. >> Nope. I can't speak Mandarin, but I can make absolutely >> sure that all my programs can accept Chinese characters. A >> friend of mine sent me an audio file with a name that >> included some Chinese, and I was able to handle it no >> problem. > > Most people just quietly change the filename and move on, > but if you want to spend the extra time worrying about every > foreign charactor, you certainly have that right. But you > don't have a right to lecture everyone else about your new > found religion. I suppose you'd be okay with all file names being upper-case 8.3 format, and that anyone who wants mixed case and/or longer names should have no right to lecture people either. >> > The only justification required is the bottom line. If your >> > products generate profit, then you're doing something >> > right. Besides, you don't need _everyone_ on the planet to >> > buy your product to be a success. Unlike the business >> > practices of Apple, we would be wise to leave plenty of >> > room for others to enter the market. Competition is good >> > for everyone. Monopolies are evil. >> >> Riight. What's the "bottom line" for open source >> software? How do you measure whether your product is >> generating a profit or not? > > Easy. You count the number of active community members. You > also closely observe the "community health tends" over time. > Having a small community today is not necessarily a bad > thing if the community is healthy and growing. OTOH, a large > unhealthy community today could be a ghost town tomorrow. > Biologist refer to that phenomenon as extinction. Which is > neither good nor profitable. > > Rectangular sheets of paper with dead presidents printed on > them are not the only source of profits. Crowd sourcing can > be quite a profitable enterprise even in the absence of > money -- that is, *IF*, and only *IF* -- you invest the time > required to lower barriers of entry and foster participation > from diverse external sources. Social homogeny and > intellectual isolation lead to collective oblivion. I think you need to define the bottom line with something more stable than a greased roller skating rink. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: Developing a Python JIT and have trouble
Yuheng Zou wrote, on Friday, March 31, 2017 6:52 AM
>
> I am building a Python JIT, so I want to change the
> interp->eval_frame to my own function.
>
> I built a C++ library which contains EvalFrame function, and
> then use dlopen and dlsym to use it. It looks like this:
>
> extern "C" PyObject *EvalFrame(PyFrameObject *f, int throwflag) {
> return _PyEval_EvalFrameDefault(f, throwflag);
> }
> I added following code to Python/pylifecycle.c at function
> _Py_InitializeEx_Private(Python version is 3.6.1):
>
> void *pyjit = NULL;
> pyjit = dlopen("../cmake-build-debug/libPubbon.dylib", 0);
> if (pyjit != NULL) {
> interp->eval_frame = (_PyFrameEvalFunction)dlsym(pyjit,
> "EvalFrame");
> //interp->eval_frame = _PyEval_EvalFrameDefault;
> }
> Then something strange happened. I used LLDB to trace the
> variables. When it ran at EvalFrame, the address of f pointer
> didn't change, but f->f_lineno changed.
>
> Then when I ran python.exe, I got Segmentation Fault.
>
> Why the address of the pointer didn't change, but the context change?
>
> I am working on Mac OS X and Python 3.6.1. I want to know how
> to replace _PyEval_EvalFrameDefault in interp->eval_frame
> with my own function.
Hi Yuheng,
There might be some C coders on this list, maybe even a few who are
proficient in both C & Python. But this list is predominantly made up of
Python coders, and you may not get a reply. Personally, I don't know C
well enough nor am I familiar with the EvalFrame you mention to respond
to your question.
Shiboya
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 2:58:53 AM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 20:53:35 -0700, Rick Johnson wrote: > > > On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 1:21:18 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote: > >> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 4:43 AM, Steve D'Aprano > >> wrote: [...] > > You place a lot of faith in the supposed "immutability of > > Unicode code points", but a lot people have placed a lot > > of faith in many past and current encoding systems, only > > to be bamboozled by the gatekeepers some time later. > > So far, Unicode has kept that promise not to move or rename > code points. Promises are not worth the paper they are written on -- unless you have them officially notarize, then they might be worth "something". > They haven't done so even when they've made embarrassing > mistakes, like giving characters the completely wrong name. So they're screw-ups, but at least they're "honest screwups"? MmmKay. Got it. > That makes Unicode more stable than ASCII, which has gone > through a number of incompatible changes since the very > first version back in 1963 (I think it was 63?). Why does every comparison of Unicode end with some cheap jab at ASCII? It brings back horrible memories of Obama blaming Bush for everything. I mean, sure, Bush was a total idiot and he trampled the constitution with his Tony Lama's on more than one occasion, but after the hundred-thousandth time of hearing Obama decry "Hey, but Bush did it -- WAH!", it starts to get really old, really fast. At some point, both Obama and Unicode have to put their big boy pants on and take responsibility for their own mistakes and short comings. And with the Trump election and the Brexit referendum, we can see that Obama took it on the shorts. > To put it another way: > > Unicode character Д (U+0414 CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER DE) is > no more likely to change to another character than ASCII > character 0x41 is likely to change from "A" to "Z". > Trusting the stability of Unicode is a pretty safe bet. I don't understand how that argument supports your beloved Unicode over ASCII? > > And so, although Unicode was created to solve the endless > > compatibility problems between multiple archaic encoding > > systems, the designers thought it necessary to add a > > "custom space" that will keep the incompatibilities on > > life support. > > No, that's not how it works. The PUAs really are for > *PRIVATE* use. If your in-house application wants some > dedicated, custom characters (say, for your company logo), > there are three ways you can do it, starting from the > dumbest: > > - pick some existing code point that you think nobody will > ever use, like "Q" say, and turn that into your logo; > > - pick some *currently* unused code point, and hope that it > will not become used; > > - pick a code point from the PUA which is permanently > reserved for private use by private agreement. > > You can't expect other people's applications to treat that > code point as your logo (or whatever special purpose you > give it), but that's okay, you couldn't expect that in any > case. The problem is, as has always been the case with encodings, is that some random dev will create a so-called "private" code point, and others, liking what they see, will adopt the same code point into their own projects. And after enough of these "emulations" occur, you've created a new unofficial de facto standard. And we're all back to square one again. Another possibility, and one that this community is all to familiar with, is that the Unicode gatekeepers could intentionally isolate themselves from the user base and withdraw into their ivory towers, thereby creating a large swath of disillusioned folks who look to the PUA for their collective salvation. And again, we are back to square one. It could be that the PUA is to Unicode what type-hints are to Python. Something to think about... > One of the excellent ways the PUAs have been used is by > medieval researchers. They have been collecting the various > special characters used by medieval scribes, and by private > agreement putting them into a PUA area where special > purpose software can use it. That way they can determine > which of the thousands of special characters used by > medieval monks are actually significant enough to graduate > to genuine Unicode characters, and which are best handled > some other way. And what if the gatekeepers refuse to graduate those special chars? And what if, in response, the natives become restless? A revolt. That's what! And their liberty will be found not in the new lands, but in the PUA. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 9:14:54 AM UTC-5, Steve D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 03:21 pm, Rick Johnson wrote: > > > On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 2:53:49 PM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote: > >> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 6:25 AM, Mikhail V wrote: > >> > On 26 March 2017 at 20:10, Steve D'Aprano > >> > wrote: > >> >> On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 03:57 am, Mikhail V wrote: > Don't be silly. You don't have to be fluent in a language > in order for your program to support users who are. All you > have to do is not stop them from using their own native > language by forcing them to use ASCII and nothing but > ASCII. Of course, if you want to *localise* your UI to > their language, then you need somebody to translate error > messages, menus, window titles, etc. I'll grant that's not > always an easy job. And thats my point. Unicode may allow my French girlfriend Zoe to spell her name using chars that are familiar to her, but Unicode is not a langauge translator. Zoe can still intuit her name in ASCII, but if she's unable to read English, Unicode is of no help to her. > But aren't you lucky, you speak one of a handful of lingua > francas in the world, so the chances are your users will be > pathetically grateful if all you do is let them type in > their own language. Actual UI localisation is a bonus. A bonus for the foreign user, perhaps, but an onerous for the developer. > Now you're just being absurd. Supporting diacritics doesn't > mean you are responsible for teaching your users what > they're for. They already know. That's why they want to use > them. > > Diacritics are for: > > - distinguishing between words which look the same, but > have different pronunciation; I wonder how those poor English readers manage without syntactical clues? it boggles the mind. > - distinguishing between different letters of the alphabet, > like dotted-i and dotless-ı (or ı and ı-with-a-dot, if you > prefer), or a and å; Sounds like the "encoding in question" could use a few more glyphs. > - distinguishing between words which look and sound the > same but mean something different; Oh, you mean like mean people? "In a pale attempt to protect the homestead, the owner smacked an intruder in the face with a large metal pail only to become pale as sheet when the intruder was unaffected by the assault. Do you think the owner's actions were beyond the pale? Or do all other options pale by comparison?" > - and making band names look ǨØØĻ and annoy old fuddy- > duddies. So now we've even included graffiti artists in our little "inclusivity project". My, my... we are so _not_ mean! -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Text-mode apps (Was :Who are the "spacists"?)
On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 3:38 PM, Rick Johnson wrote: >> - distinguishing between different letters of the alphabet, >> like dotted-i and dotless-ı (or ı and ı-with-a-dot, if you >> prefer), or a and å; > > Sounds like the "encoding in question" could use a few more > glyphs. How many glyphs do you think you need? ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
