Re: Variables in a loop, Newby question
On 12/24/2013 08:07 AM, vanommen.rob...@gmail.com wrote: [snip...] x = 1 while x <> 10 var x = x x = x + 1 [snip...] Besides the other valid answers you have received, I want to add one other minor nit. The symbol <> for unequal is deprecated -- it's better to use != instead. Although, as was also pointed out, in this particular case you want < (less than) rather than unequal. -=- Larry -=- -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Insert NULL into mySQL datetime
Igor Korot wrote:
> Hi, ALL,
> I am working on a script that parses CSV file and after successful
> parsing insert data ino mySQL table.
> One of the fields in CSV holds a date+time value.
>
> What the script should do is check if the cell has any data, i.e. not
> empty and then make sure that the data is date+time.
> If the validation fails, it should insert NULL into the mySQL datetime
> field, otherwise the actual datetime will be inserted.
>
> Right now the script uses a placeholder "-00-00 00:00:00.000" if
> the date validation fails (either cell is empty or it has wrong data)
>
> What I tried so far is:
>
> C:\Documents and Settings\Igor.FORDANWORK\My
> Documents\GitHub\image_export\Artef acts>python
> Python 2.7.5 (default, May 15 2013, 22:43:36) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
> (Intel)] on win32
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
import MySQLdb as mdb
conn = mdb.connect('127.0.0.1','root','pass')
cur = conn.cursor()
a = None
cur.execute("Use mydb")
> 0L
cur.execute("Insert Into mytable(datefield) VALUES(STR_TO_DATE(%s))",
a)
The second argument to execute has to be a tuple. Try
cur.execute("INSERT...", (a,))
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "", line 1, in
> File "c:\python27\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\cursors.py", line 202, in
> execute
> self.errorhandler(self, exc, value)
> File "c:\python27\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line
> 36, in defaulterrorhandler
> raise errorclass, errorvalue
> _mysql_exceptions.ProgrammingError: (1064, "You have an error in your SQL
> syntax ; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version
> for the right syntax to use near '%s))' at line 1")
a = ""
cur.execute("Insert Into mytable(datefield) VALUES(STR_TO_DATE(%s))",
a)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "", line 1, in
> File "c:\python27\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\cursors.py", line 202, in
> execute
> self.errorhandler(self, exc, value)
> File "c:\python27\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line
> 36, in defaulterrorhandler
> raise errorclass, errorvalue
> _mysql_exceptions.OperationalError: (1582, "Incorrect parameter count
> in the call to native function 'STR_TO_DATE'")
>
> Is it possible to do what I want?
> I'd like to use one query to insert the data into the table.
>
> Thank you.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Airplane mode control using Python?
On 12/23/2013 01:46 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 5:59 PM, wrote: >> On Sunday, December 22, 2013 10:37:35 PM UTC-7, Chris Angelico wrote: >>> Actually, formatting errors ARE often caused by Google Groups. Maybe >>> it wasn't in this instance, but I have seen several cases of GG >>> mangling code formatting, so this was a perfectly reasonable theory. >> >> And you have determined format errors are coming from GG how exactly? >> You would need to know the original contents entered into GG, yes? >> Perhaps you have done experiments to determine these errors that you >> could share with us? > > Previous people's posts to this very list. Search the archives, you > know this to be true! No I don't. (To be clear: I and you are not talking about the quoting problem but with trashing whitespace to a degree greater than other mail/usenet software does.) If you don't know what was entered into the posting interface how can you say with such certainty that what was received was different? > Why, rurpy, do you continue to support, apologize for, and argue in > favour of, a piece of software that (a) you know to be buggy, and (b) > has perfectly viable alternatives? I have addressed this several times already. All software is buggy. I even posted long list on the problems I've had with Thunderbird. Choosing any software is making a tradeoff of one set of features/- bugs versus another. For you, with your experience, goals and use of the list, there is one tradeoff. Others with different experience, goals and use of the list may well choose different tradeoffs. Yet you persist in ignoring that, persist in insisting that tradeoffs that work for you are best for everyone. Why do you refuse to see and acknowledge that the work involved in subscribing to a list, managing the volume of mail, and unsubscribing after (to say nothing of figuring out arcane usenet), is a lot bigger pain than a half dozen mouse clicks to read and post from GG for many people? >[...] > But avoiding Google Groups just means using gmane or > Thunderbird or python-list, and you get all the same content without > any loss. So why stick to something that sends mail with mess all over > it? It is not (as I just explained to you (yet again) *just* a matter of using TB or Gmane. You really need to learn that your opinion of things is not the gold standard for the rest of the world. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Google Groups + this list
On 12/23/2013 09:12 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 5:09 PM, wrote: >> On Sunday, December 22, 2013 10:37:35 PM UTC-7, Chris Angelico wrote: >>> Actually, formatting errors ARE often caused by Google Groups. Maybe >>> it wasn't in this instance, but I have seen several cases of GG >>> mangling code formatting, so this was a perfectly reasonable theory. >> >> What sort of formatting errors have you seen and how did you >> determine it was Google Groups fault? You would need to know >> what the original message was, wouldn't you? Perhaps these >> were experiments you carried out yourself that you could share >> with us? > > Unless people were lying through their teeth when they said that their > posted code had worked on their system, I don't recall many whitespace-broken posts where the poster claimed it wasn't what they posted. In the cases I remember they are chided about not copying and pasting and they either do so or don't respond further. As for lying, people sometimes lie because they don't want to admit a mistake. Or they often are just genuinely mistaken (memory is a complex and unreliable thing). So your cynical presumption that they must be "lying through their teeth" or telling the truth is not is not credible. And there is more than GG involved when you get a message from GG. It has long been a criticism of Python's significant whitespace that it is easily corrupted by message transports and those criticisms predate GG. So, assuming I was actually was unlucky enough to miss all the OP claims that GG FU'd their posts that you claim to have seen, there are still plenty of other possible reasons for whitespace corruption beyond GG. > I can be pretty sure it was > the fault of the delivery mechanism. Bad logic. *You* can be sure on whatever basis you want but to convince anyone else not predisposed to your biases, you need quite a bit more than your handwaving. For all I know, you may be right. But you've not presented any evidence. I post from GG and I've not noticed any whitespace corruption problems. > Dig through the archive. Err, no thanks. I don't have hours to waste chasing down your dubious assertions. How about you do that instead? And show that the rate is much higher from GG than other sources proportionally and that difference is due to GG and not just a difference in the experience or skill of the posting populations, or gateway problems etc. > Also, > you haven't answered the other part of the post, the more important > part. Refresh my memory please. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Airplane mode control using Python?
On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 12:37 PM, wrote: > I have addressed this several times already. All > software is buggy. I even posted long list on the > problems I've had with Thunderbird. Choosing any > software is making a tradeoff of one set of features/- > bugs versus another. For you, with your experience, > goals and use of the list, there is one tradeoff. > Others with different experience, goals and use of > the list may well choose different tradeoffs. Give me an example of how Thunderbird's problems force *every other reader* to suffer under them and maybe I'll believe that it's equivalent. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Google Groups + this list
On 12/24/13 8:47 PM, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: On 12/23/2013 09:12 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: Also, you haven't answered the other part of the post, the more important part. Refresh my memory please. Ugh, stop! We get it: you don't think Google Groups is bad. Or you think it can be made to work, or something. That's fine. But you are going to have to reason a little more subtly than, "all software has bugs." As Chris has pointed out, the bugs in Google Groups affect every reader of the list. Bugs in other software don't, at least not to the same extent. Rurpy, you seem to be willfully ignoring the aggravation people are experiencing. And people who hate Google Groups: you seem to be overlooking the fact that it's difficult for the users of Google Groups to understand its flaws, or to see the effect it has on the list. I'll repeat my proposal (for everyone): 1) Don't fault newcomers for using Google Groups. Politely suggest alternatives, but only if you are also helping them, or if they have already gotten help. 2) Be careful how you rail against Google Groups. When you call its results "crap" (for example), it can sound like an insult to the poster. You mean to refer to Google Groups, but remember you are also referring to the poster's words. 3) Don't let's get into protracted internal debates about Google Groups. It is for the moment at least, an unavoidable part of this list. Do you disagree? -- Ned Batchelder, http://nedbatchelder.com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Google Groups + this list
On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Ned Batchelder wrote: > On 12/24/13 8:47 PM, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 12/23/2013 09:12 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: >> >> Also, >>> you haven't answered the other part of the post, the more important >>> part. >>> >> >> Refresh my memory please. >> >> > Ugh, stop! We get it: you don't think Google Groups is bad. Or you think > it can be made to work, or something. That's fine. But you are going to > have to reason a little more subtly than, "all software has bugs." > > As Chris has pointed out, the bugs in Google Groups affect every reader of > the list. Bugs in other software don't, at least not to the same extent. > > Rurpy, you seem to be willfully ignoring the aggravation people are > experiencing. And people who hate Google Groups: you seem to be > overlooking the fact that it's difficult for the users of Google Groups to > understand its flaws, or to see the effect it has on the list. > > I'll repeat my proposal (for everyone): > > > 1) Don't fault newcomers for using Google Groups. Politely suggest > alternatives, but only if you are also helping them, or if they have > already gotten help. > > 2) Be careful how you rail against Google Groups. When you call its > results "crap" (for example), it can sound like an insult to the poster. > You mean to refer to Google Groups, but remember you are also referring to > the poster's words. > > 3) Don't let's get into protracted internal debates about Google Groups. > It is for the moment at least, an unavoidable part of this list. > > Do you disagree? > > > -- > Ned Batchelder, http://nedbatchelder.com > > -- > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > I'm with Ned. Ned you do a great job lowering the temperature here. This group has lots of signal, but alas lots and lots of noise. So, even though its not my holiday, Merry Christmas to all of you knuckleheads, and good people! -- Joel Goldstick http://joelgoldstick.com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Using asyncio in event-driven network library
Am 24.12.13 16:41, schrieb Tobias M.: On 23.12.2013 20:59, Terry Reedy wrote: What would be easiest for user-developers would be if someone were able to wrap a gui loop in a way to give it the needed interface, so the gui loop itself replaced and became the asyncio loop. That's a good idea, maybe I will try this. On the other hand this means that for every gui toolkit there must be a separate wrapper. I hoped this can be avoided. To be done properly, it needs to be adapted for every toolkit. But the good news is, that it has already been achieved: IPython is able to integrate the readline library into all major GUI toolkits (%gui). Maybe you can rip off the code from there. On 23.12.2013 17:47, Chris Angelico wrote: while gtk.events_pending(): gtk.main_iteration() No doubt other toolkits have something similar. On 23.12.2013 20:59, Terry Reedy wrote: I think tk(inter) has 'run pending events' or something. In Tk(inter) it is "update" I didn't know functions like this exist in gui toolkits. Am I right in thinking that using these functions you don't have to use the built-in event loop. Instead you can write your own loop and just call 'run pending events' continuously? As Chris already explained, you then lose the advantages of the asynchronous operation. The reason behind the toolkits insisting on their main loop being run is, that they can wait for an event in a blocking way. Typically, under Linux, they call select() and on Windows WaitForMultipleObjects(), which blocks (sleeps) until an event arrives. Now to integrate your event source, you need to add it to this single blocking call. Specifically, in the case of Tcl/Tk: The event loop is intrinsically able to wait for asynchronous IO from sockets, pipes, or serial lines to implement "fileevent". However, this is probably not useful since Python doesn't open files through Tcl's VFS layer. The easiest way is to run another thread, which waits in a blocking way, and to raise an event in the main thread. This is done from the C side by Tcl_ThreadQueueEvent() and Tcl_ThreadAlert() to wake up the event loop, or from the Tcl script level by the Threads package and sending a message to the main thread. Unfortunately this message queue stuff is quite complicated (it's described on the notifier man page http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl/TclLib/Notifier.htm ). Further complication might come from the fact that some Linux distributions still ship with a Tcl that is not threads enabled. When I needed to add an unrelated event source, namely the events from GPIB devices, I simply used Tcl_AsyncProc() to do it, but I'm not sure whether this leads to race conditions. Christian -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Google Groups + this list
Ned Batchelder wrote: > 1) Don't fault newcomers for using Google Groups. Politely suggest > alternatives, but only if you are also helping them, or if they have > already gotten help. +1 The *primary purpose* of this list is to help people with Python, not to enforce some particular part of netiquette to the exclusion of all else. The part that often gets forgotten is the part about avoiding rudeness and flame wars, and encouraging a friendly, helpful, inclusive environment. Netiquette helps with communication, but it is the communication which is important, not the netiquette itself. > 2) Be careful how you rail against Google Groups. When you call its > results "crap" (for example), it can sound like an insult to the poster. > You mean to refer to Google Groups, but remember you are also > referring to the poster's words. +1 While it actually isn't true that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, we don't actually want to catch flies. We want to communicate with, and educate, human beings. > 3) Don't let's get into protracted internal debates about Google Groups. > It is for the moment at least, an unavoidable part of this list. +1 "At the head of all understanding is realizing what is and what cannot be, and the consoling of what is not in our power to change." -- Solomon ibn Gabirol Thank you Ned for saying all this. -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
I hope Python can run in my windows phone
I can't compiling myself, and I see Python can run in iphone and android phone. And I feel little unfair.-- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Variables in a loop, Newby question
vanommen.rob...@gmail.com wrote:
> Indeed this is code what I found on the web to read temperatures from 10
> DS18B20 singlewire sensors.
>
> My only programming (little) experience is VBA (Excel mostly).
>
> avgtemperatures = [] is indeed from the original code where this line
>
> 'avgtemperatures.append(sum(temperatures) / float(len(temperatures)))'
>
> was added. i removed it.
>
> You're right about the line sensorids. There are 10 sensors:
>
> sensorids = ["28-054c4932", "28-054c9454", "28-054c9fca",
> "28-054c4401", "28-054dab99", "28-054cf9b4",
> "28-054c8a03", "28-054d6780", $00054ccdfa", "28-054c4f9d"]
>
>
> In this script i want to read the temperatures and make them available to
> other scripts.
>
> One script to controll my solar water boiler and other heat exchangers
> connected to this boiler. (fire place for example) And in the future I
> want to make the temperatures available on a website and log them in a
> mysql database online.
>
> But as I said before, I am just a few days trying to learn how to do it.
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> greetings Robert
(Warning: all untested code -- I don't have a Raspberry Pi)
When you use constants as sensor ids your code will only work for one
machine, with one configuration. I recommend that you read the sensor ids
once at startup of the script and then operate with these.
For the code poste below I assume that the output of the sensors looks like
the examples on this page:
http://www.gtkdb.de/index_7_2035.html
Namely the list of sensors...
pi@raspberrypi ~ $ cat /sys/devices/w1_bus_master1/w1_master_slaves
10-000801e1799b
10-000801e17146
10-000801e17bc6
and the state of a single sensor:
pi@raspberrypi ~ $ cat /sys/devices/w1_bus_master1/10-000801e1799b/w1_slave
2d 00 4b 46 ff ff 02 10 19 : crc=19 YES
2d 00 4b 46 ff ff 02 10 19 t=22625
You can then deal with the "lowlevel" stuff in a module like the
following...
$ cat sensors.py
def read_sensorids():
with open("/sys/devices/w1_bus_master1/w1_master_slaves") as f:
return [line.strip() for line in f]
def read_sensor(sensorid):
with open("/sys/bus/w1/devices/{}/w1_slave".format(sensorid)) as f:
temperature = f.read().rpartition("=")[-1]
return float(temperature) / 1000.0
def read_sensors(sensorids=None):
if sensorids is None:
sensorids = read_sensorids()
temperatures = {}
for sensorid in sensorids:
temperatures[sensorid] = read_sensor(sensorid)
return temperatures
def print_temperatures(sensorids=None):
for k, v in read_sensors(sensorids).items():
print("Sensor {}: {}".format(k, v))
... and use it like so:
$ cat sensors_demo.py
import sensors
import time
def demo1():
print "Demo1: detect sensors and print temperatures"
print "current temperatures:"
sensors.print_temperatures()
print
def demo2():
print "Demo 2, detect available sensors"
print "found the following sensors:"
for sensor in sensors.read_sensorids():
print sensor
print
def demo3():
print "Demo 3, choose a sensor and read its temperature every second"
print "found the following sensors:"
sensorids = sensors.read_sensorids()
for index, sensor in enumerate(sensorids):
print " {}: {}".format(index, sensor)
index = int(raw_input("Choose an index "))
follow_sensor = sensorids[index]
print "following", follow_sensor
while True:
print sensors.read_sensor(follow_sensor)
time.sleep(1)
if __name__ == "__main__":
demo1()
demo2()
demo3()
A (simulated, as you might guess from the odd variations in temperature) run
of the above:
$ python sensors_demo.py
Demo1: detect sensors and print temperatures
current temperatures:
Sensor 10-000801e1799b: 45.052
Sensor 10-000801e17146: 23.841
Sensor 10-000801e17bc6: 45.5
Demo 2, detect available sensors
found the following sensors:
10-000801e1799b
10-000801e17146
10-000801e17bc6
Demo 3, choose a sensor and read its temperature every second
found the following sensors:
0: 10-000801e1799b
1: 10-000801e17146
2: 10-000801e17bc6
Choose an index 1
following 10-000801e17146
12.744
39.557
17.345
16.49
49.73
27.925
35.007
44.142
37.187
10.261
44.359
^CTraceback (most recent call last):
File "sensors_demo.py", line 36, in
demo3()
File "sensors_demo.py", line 30, in demo3
time.sleep(1)
KeyboardInterrupt
Again, as I don't have a machine to test the above some of my assumptions
may be false -- or worse, true nine times out of ten.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Variables in a loop, Newby question
On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 16:42:47 +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: > On 25Dec2013 02:54, Denis McMahon wrote: >> On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 10:27:13 -0800, vanommen.robert wrote: >> > In this script i want to read the temperatures and make them >> > available to other scripts. [...] >> If you want this process to provide data to other processes, you might >> want to look at using a socket so they can request it as needed. > > Or just write it to a file for another process to open and read... That can cause io sync errors, eg if another process has the file opened for read when you try to write, or you are writing when they try to read. For inter process communication, sockets are generally better than files. -- Denis McMahon, denismfmcma...@gmail.com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Google Groups + this list
On 12/23/2013 04:48 AM, Ned Batchelder wrote: > On 12/22/13 11:52 PM, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: >> Come on Chris, it is just as easy to make typo or copy-and- >> paste errors in any other software as GG, there is no evidence >> that it was GG's fault. > > Can we agree that it's not great to respond to a new poster with *just* > "please don't use GG, it's bad" and no actual attempt to help them? > It's really unfriendly. In this case, it wasn't difficult to see the > code the OP was asking about, and to try to help them. > >> >> If you want to recommend the mailing list, fine, but please >> don't make stupid, unfounded, accusatory suggestions. > > Rurpy: you're coming on really strong here. "Stupid"? No. 'Stupid" might not have been the most accurate choice of words but I have no problem with it's strength. People come here looking for accurate info. Posting unsubstantiated derogatory claims about something because one doesn't like that something should not be allowed to pass silently. It is also important to point it out because people who do that also post authoritatively about other things and readers should be aware how readily such people confuse their own opinions and facts. > People have > had to deal with the result of Google Groups for a long time, and it's > not unreasonable to think that the formatting was its fault. I think it is unreasonable when one doesn't have any evidence to support the claim. >> Kevin: just for your own info, there are a few people here >> who despise Google Groups. I and many other people post >> from Google Groups regularly and it works fine. > > This is disingenuous. Google Groups clearly does not work fine. If you > understand its flaws, and care enough to, you can make it work fine. OK, that's fair enough. > But it's a lot of work. No, it not a "lot" of work (IMO and I use GG for every post I make here). For a poster who expects to post more than once or twice (and thus cares about not alienating the anti-GG group) but doesn't expect to be a frequent poster it may be perfectly reasonable amount of work relative to the work involved with any of the other options. The TB/Usenet promoters simply refuse to (or seem to be incapable of) understanding that figuring out enough about usenet/gmane etc to configure a newreader or managing a high volume of emails are what is a "lot of work" to someone who has been using Google Groups. I for one don't want my yahoo email account filled with a hundred or more email messages a day, all of which I have to click a check box and a delete button to get rid of. I don't want those email delivered to a local email account when I find GG allows me to quickly scan for messages of interest and skip the rest without using local resources. And I find GG UI, while flawed, less flawed than many alternatives. So don't tell *me* it is a lot of work -- the alternatives are more so. And it is not up to you or Chris to decide what is or what isn't "a lot of work" for other people. If it is too much work then they won't do it and will decide that using usenet or something else is easier. But what you and Chris are missing is that that is *their* decision, not yours. >> You might want to take a look at >> https://wiki.python.org/moin/GoogleGroupsPython >> for some ways to reduce the annoyance factor for the anti-GG >> clique here. > > I appreciate the work you put into that page, but those suggestions are > far from simple for the average newb here. I think it's very unlikely > that a new poster is going to read, understand, and follow those > instructions. Perhaps. But it is an option that GG users should be aware of. > Remember that most posters are not looking to "join the group." They > need help with a problem. They aren't going to put a lot of work into > anything having to do with this list. That's just the way it is. And yet you want them to go though the subscription process for the email list and then deal with dozens, perhaps hundreds of messages from it every day? And then figure out how to get off it when they're done? If they're unwilling to do a simple edit on a message before posting why would anyone think they'd be willing to do all the above? (And to pre-address the obvious potential mis-interpretation: I am talking about only a subset of posters. Some *will* find email or usenet easier, and to repeat what I said in most every post on this subject: offering the option is fine, ignoring GG posts if you don't like them is fine. But making wrong or unsupported claims like GG corrupts whitespace (more than other software) or is harder to use than usenet or a mailing list, or makes people go blind is wrong. > Google Groups is a blessing and a curse. 1) It provides a simple way > for people to ask questions here. 2) It causes a lot of friction with > many people on this list. It won't do any good to pretend that either > of these things isn't true.
Re: I hope Python can run in my windows phone
On 25/12/13 15:08, 1011.0011 wrote: I can't compiling myself, and I see Python can run in iphone and android phone. And I feel little unfair. I would suggest you get yourself a Jolla Mobile with SailfishOS, comes with python preinstalled. See shop.jolla.com Should soon be for sale in main land China. -- //Aho -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to check the date validity?
Am 24.12.2013 01:39, schrieb Chris Angelico: On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Igor Korot wrote: So, my question is: since there is a simple way of inserting preformatted string into the datetime field of mySQL, how do I validate the date string? Well, the easiest way would be to simply attempt the SQL query. If it comes back with an error, the date wasn't valid. To protect a transaction against being broken by an error, you can use a SAVEPOINT - check the database docs. (I've never actually used savepoints in MySQL, only PostgreSQL, so things may be a bit different. Check the docs.) MySQL used to accept wrong date and datetime formats without error messages. Garbage in the database, because validation was (is?) considered the job of "the application". Possibly that has changed, but I'd look into the docs. It isn't PostgreSQL. Greetings Sibylle -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT]Royal pardon for codebreaker Turing
* Steven D'Aprano [131224 16:19]: > Tim Johnson wrote: > > > * Steven D'Aprano [131224 07:05]: > >> On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 00:32:31 +, Mark Lawrence wrote: > >> > >> > Maybe of interest to some of you > >> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25495315 > >> > >> While I'm happy for Alan Turing, may he rest in peace, I think the > >> thousands of other homosexuals who have been prosecuted for something > >> which shouldn't be a crime in the first place might be a bit peeved that > >> he is singled out for a pardon. > > > > The LGBTs that I know are happy to hear about it... > > How many of them have been prosecuted themselves? If they have been, did > they get pardoned as well? > > In case it wasn't obvious, I'm not objecting to Turing being pardoned. I'm > suggesting that there are probably thousands of people whose lives were > equally ruined, and they haven't been pardoned. I'm sure that Turing wasn't > the only person who was forced into taking hormone "therapy", he probably > wasn't the only person driven to suicide, and I know that he wasn't the > only one who lost his job and career because of the hateful laws. > > Turing's prosecution was an especially spiteful example, given his role in > the war effort, but many others suffered equally. Some may even be alive > today. Where is their royal pardon? I'm not sure if you have a cause or if you want an argument. You'll get none from me. I - like many others, and perhaps you as well - carry the scars of man's inhumanity to man. Justice for that has its venue and it isn't on this ML. Go find your cause and its venue. I'm done with this. -- Tim tim at tee jay forty nine dot com or akwebsoft dot com http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: How to check the date validity?
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 6:03 AM, Sibylle Koczian wrote: > MySQL used to accept wrong date and datetime formats without error messages. > Garbage in the database, because validation was (is?) considered the job of > "the application". Possibly that has changed, but I'd look into the docs. It > isn't PostgreSQL. Nor is it DB2, which is where I grew up, databases-wise. Yes, check what MySQL will do. I'd forgotten that, or more likely suppressed it from my mind. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Google Groups + this list
On 12/25/2013 05:19 AM, Ned Batchelder wrote: > On 12/24/13 8:47 PM, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: >> On 12/23/2013 09:12 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: >>> Also, >>> you haven't answered the other part of the post, the more important >>> part. >> Refresh my memory please. > > Ugh, stop! Stop what? The context you quote has nothing to do with what you write below. > We get it: you don't think Google Groups is bad. That's not accurate. I would never characterize GG with such simplistic terms as "good" or "bad". > Or you > think it can be made to work, My own posts demonstrate that. You don't agree? Why would you question that I think so? > or something. "or something"? In other words you *don't* get it. > That's fine. But you are > going to have to reason a little more subtly than, "all software has bugs." I have tried to, both in the previous posts and in posts going back any months. Either I have failed to make myself clear or (more likely since you (et.al.) consistently cut out context and fail to respond directly to what I wrote) you choose not to understand. > As Chris has pointed out, the bugs in Google Groups affect every reader > of the list. Bugs in other software don't, at least not to the same extent. I understand that. But (a hypothetical) *I* have to make a tradeoff between the features/misfeatures of GG vs TB or any other software. You assume that the negative value you assign to GG apply to me. Wrong. While I understand (for example) that the FU'd quoting is annoying, I don't see why you can't just ignore it or skip reading my entire post if necessary. (The non-hypothetical I actually almost never reads quoted stuff anyway -- I only do so rarely when my memory and the main message leaving me unclear about something -- and even then it is often easier to go back to the OP given the spotty quality of quote trimming, as you demonstrate.) And (as I pointed out, multiple times) you fail to evaluate as positively as (hypothetical again) I do the benefits GG has for me. (Evidence: Chris' erroneous insistence that subscribing to the email list is as easy as using GG.) So my evaluation of the overall benefit/cost for GG relative to some other choice is still positive even though your evaluation is otherwise. And I distrust your evaluation anyway since I *know* (from personal experience that GG is easier to use for me than a mailing list) that part of your evaluation is wrong. What you are saying is that I should use *your* evaluation of GG (and other options) in making my tradeoffs. And you get very angry when I won't do what you tell me to. Secondly, the above is a side issue. Please go back and reread the posts in question. The main point (which you and Chris lost or did a good job misdirecting away from) is that Chris claimed (and you found reasonable to believe) that GG corrupts white space in posts. I have not seen any such effect, Chris' explanations were all handwaving, and so pending something more convincing I will offer the alternate explanation that it is just more unjustified disparagement of GG and that it constitutes evidence that much of this anti-GG sentiment is driven by a "Lord of the Flies" effect rather than rationality. > Rurpy, you seem to be willfully ignoring the aggravation people are > experiencing. "willfully ignoring"? For someone portraying himself as a voice of reason in this discuss that's a pretty sleezy thing to say. I'll point out I put a small but significant amount of work into a wiki page to try to help reduce the aggravation people are experiencing which is more than you or Chris have done. > And people who hate Google Groups: you seem to be > overlooking the fact that it's difficult for the users of Google Groups > to understand its flaws, or to see the effect it has on the list. And in my opinion, overreacting to GG annoyances. Despite claims to the contrary, reading GG posts *will not* make you go blind, and they *can* be easily skipped if too annoying. And from comments posted here, there are people who find these incessant GG discussions (and frequent troll baiting) far more annoying than posts from GG. > I'll repeat my proposal (for everyone): > > 1) Don't fault newcomers for using Google Groups. Politely suggest > alternatives, but only if you are also helping them, or if they have > already gotten help. > > 2) Be careful how you rail against Google Groups. When you call its > results "crap" (for example), it can sound like an insult to the poster. > You mean to refer to Google Groups, but remember you are also > referring to the poster's words. > > 3) Don't let's get into protracted internal debates about Google Groups. > It is for the moment at least, an unavoidable part of this list. > > Do you disagree? OK I give up. You never even bothered to read what you're responding to. I specifically wrote regarding the above, immediately following where you wro
Re: [OT]Royal pardon for codebreaker Turing
Tim Johnson wrote: > I'm not sure if you have a cause or if you want an argument. I thought we were having a conversation. Not every exchange of messages on the internet is best understood as a dispute between opposing views. Apologies if you thought I was arguing with you. I thought I was just clarifying my position to avoid misunderstandings. How ironic that I apparently was doing the opposite :( -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT]Royal pardon for codebreaker Turing
In article <52bb64d7$0$29973$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Tim Johnson wrote: > > > I'm not sure if you have a cause or if you want an argument. > > I thought we were having a conversation. > > Not every exchange of messages on the internet is best understood as a > dispute between opposing views. Is too! -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: [OT]Royal pardon for codebreaker Turing
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Roy Smith wrote: > In article <52bb64d7$0$29973$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>, > Steven D'Aprano wrote: > >> Tim Johnson wrote: >> >> > I'm not sure if you have a cause or if you want an argument. >> >> I thought we were having a conversation. >> >> Not every exchange of messages on the internet is best understood as a >> dispute between opposing views. > > Is too! I didn't come here for a parameter! ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Variables in a loop, Newby question
On 25Dec2013 15:27, Denis McMahon wrote: > On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 16:42:47 +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: > > On 25Dec2013 02:54, Denis McMahon wrote: > >> On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 10:27:13 -0800, vanommen.robert wrote: > >> > In this script i want to read the temperatures and make them > >> > available to other scripts. [...] > >> If you want this process to provide data to other processes, you might > >> want to look at using a socket so they can request it as needed. > > > > Or just write it to a file for another process to open and read... > > That can cause io sync errors, eg if another process has the file opened > for read when you try to write, or you are writing when they try to read. Well, obviously synchronisation of some kind is needed. The easiest is write-new-file-with-temp-name followed by rename(). Atomic. Lock files are also not too hard, etc. > For inter process communication, sockets are generally better than files. Except for agreement about the ports etc etc, and the need to write a (possible trite) protocol. At least the filesystem gives great and ergonomic flexibility about naming the communication point, and offers file permissions to control who can access stuff instead of needing some kind of authentication protocol. And of course a file needs no connect/listen/accept daemon/thread to facilitate communication. Of course, a named pipe or UNIX cdomain socket may give the best of both worlds, depending on the use case. Cheers, -- Cameron Simpson In any event, this is a straw herring for debate. - solo...@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Variables in a loop, Newby question
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote: > On 25Dec2013 15:27, Denis McMahon wrote: >> On Wed, 25 Dec 2013 16:42:47 +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: >> > On 25Dec2013 02:54, Denis McMahon wrote: >> >> On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 10:27:13 -0800, vanommen.robert wrote: >> >> > In this script i want to read the temperatures and make them >> >> > available to other scripts. [...] >> >> If you want this process to provide data to other processes, you might >> >> want to look at using a socket so they can request it as needed. >> > >> > Or just write it to a file for another process to open and read... >> >> That can cause io sync errors, eg if another process has the file opened >> for read when you try to write, or you are writing when they try to read. > > Well, obviously synchronisation of some kind is needed. The easiest > is write-new-file-with-temp-name followed by rename(). Atomic. Lock > files are also not too hard, etc. Does anyone else have the vague feeling that the OP's problem might be better served by simply importing the script (thus making those values available to another Python script) than by any of these rather more complicated theories? Of course, this requires a little more clarification from the OP, but I'd rather posit the simple idea and see it knocked down before going on to the complex :) ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Google Groups + this list
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 3:39 AM, wrote: > > On 12/25/2013 05:19 AM, Ned Batchelder wrote: > > On 12/24/13 8:47 PM, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 12/23/2013 09:12 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > >>> Also, > >>> you haven't answered the other part of the post, the more important > >>> part. > >> Refresh my memory please. > > > > Ugh, stop! > > Stop what? The context you quote has nothing to do > with what you write below. This is a test mail I seem to have been kicked off something or other -- First thought it was google groups -- then saw some mails from Steven describing similar 'non-reaching' problems. Anyway for the last couple of days I'm getting mail bounces after about 24 hours to all my posts (via GG) So trying a different route -- Does this reach? [And if it does... Merry Christmas!] -- Heres the kind of bounce message I get (with emails crossed out) On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Mail Delivery Subsystem wrote: > > Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently: > > comp.lang.python AT usenet.google.com > > - Original message - > > X-Received: by 10.50.34.161 with SMTP id a1mr486436igj.5.1387860004581; Mon, > 23 Dec 2013 20:40:04 -0800 (PST) > Path: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail > Newsgroups: comp.lang.python > Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 20:40:04 -0800 (PST) > In-Reply-To: > Complaints-To: groups-abuse... > Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; > posting-host=59.95.49.205; posting-account=mBpa7woGLEWUUKpmbxm-Quu5D8ui > NNTP-Posting-Host: 59.95.49.205 > References: <52b788bb$0$6599$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com> > User-Agent: G2/1.0 > X-Google-Web-Client: true > X-Google-IP: 59.95.49.205 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Message-ID: <5125ea95-14cb-43af-bddd-2da87552550f at googlegroups.com> > Subject: Re: testing > From: Rusi <> > To: comp.lang.python AT ... > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Monday, December 23, 2013 6:56:56 AM UTC+5:30, Roy Smith wrote: > > Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > > > Is this thing still working? > > > Yes. Do you want to know how many times your previous message was > > posted? :-) > > > Last couple of days I seem to be kicked off the list > Just checking whether this gets in > > [And if it does, sorry for noise!] -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Google Groups + this list
On 12/24/13 8:44 PM, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: On 12/23/2013 04:48 AM, Ned Batchelder wrote: On 12/22/13 11:52 PM, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: Come on Chris, it is just as easy to make typo or copy-and- paste errors in any other software as GG, there is no evidence that it was GG's fault. Can we agree that it's not great to respond to a new poster with *just* "please don't use GG, it's bad" and no actual attempt to help them? It's really unfriendly. In this case, it wasn't difficult to see the code the OP was asking about, and to try to help them. If you want to recommend the mailing list, fine, but please don't make stupid, unfounded, accusatory suggestions. Rurpy: you're coming on really strong here. "Stupid"? No. 'Stupid" might not have been the most accurate choice of words but I have no problem with it's strength. People come here looking for accurate info. Posting unsubstantiated derogatory claims about something because one doesn't like that something should not be allowed to pass silently. Chris actually said, "You seem to be posting from Google Groups, which may be why it's messed up; I recommend switching to something else, like Mozilla Thunderbird, or subscribing instead to the mailing list (with all the same content)" This is pretty gentle, and includes words like "may" and "recommend". Also, let's be clear: I didn't like Chris' message, because it didn't attempt to help the OP. I'm not taking the "don't use Google Groups" side in this debate. You seem to think I am, but I'm not. My point is, "talk about Python, not about Google Groups." It is also important to point it out because people who do that also post authoritatively about other things and readers should be aware how readily such people confuse their own opinions and facts. People have had to deal with the result of Google Groups for a long time, and it's not unreasonable to think that the formatting was its fault. I think it is unreasonable when one doesn't have any evidence to support the claim. Kevin: just for your own info, there are a few people here who despise Google Groups. I and many other people post from Google Groups regularly and it works fine. This is disingenuous. Google Groups clearly does not work fine. If you understand its flaws, and care enough to, you can make it work fine. OK, that's fair enough. But it's a lot of work. No, it not a "lot" of work (IMO and I use GG for every post I make here). For a poster who expects to post more than once or twice (and thus cares about not alienating the anti-GG group) but doesn't expect to be a frequent poster it may be perfectly reasonable amount of work relative to the work involved with any of the other options. Yes, that's a point I've also been trying to make: we're in agreement here. The TB/Usenet promoters simply refuse to (or seem to be incapable of) understanding that figuring out enough about usenet/gmane etc to configure a newreader or managing a high volume of emails are what is a "lot of work" to someone who has been using Google Groups. I for one don't want my yahoo email account filled with a hundred or more email messages a day, all of which I have to click a check box and a delete button to get rid of. I don't want those email delivered to a local email account when I find GG allows me to quickly scan for messages of interest and skip the rest without using local resources. And I find GG UI, while flawed, less flawed than many alternatives. So don't tell *me* it is a lot of work -- the alternatives are more so. And it is not up to you or Chris to decide what is or what isn't "a lot of work" for other people. If it is too much work then they won't do it and will decide that using usenet or something else is easier. But what you and Chris are missing is that that is *their* decision, not yours. I'm not telling people not to use Google Groups. In fact, I've said twice now in this thread that we have to accept Google Groups postings as part of this list. My point is simply that we have to take care not to turn this list into a list about Google Groups, one way or the other. Kevin started this thread by asking a question. Chris responded without helping the OP, and talked about Google Groups instead. That's not good. Then you responded to Chris, not helping the OP, and talking about Google Groups instead. That's also not good. I have found some of the anti-GG responses off-putting, and I wish they would stop. Words like "crap" aren't making anyone feel welcome. In this thread, I felt like your attempts to correct those responses were also crossing a line. That's why I'd personally prefer that everyone tone down the rhetoric on both sides of the debate. For the most part, it will be impossible to get anyone to change how they access the list. The best we can do is a polite suggestion that Google Groups puts some people off, and that more responses will likely result from using ano
Re: Google Groups + this list
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote: > Kevin started this thread by asking a question. Chris responded without > helping the OP, and talked about Google Groups instead. That's not good. The only reason I didn't directly help the OP was because the code was misformatted and it was necessary to request that it be reposted. Perhaps I should have been clearer in saying "Please repost your code with correct formatting", but there wasn't much else I could have done. Or maybe I should have just filtered everything from Google Groups into the bit bucket, because responding just creates threads like this. Do you honestly think that would be better? No response at all if the post comes from GG? ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Google Groups + this list
On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Thu, Dec 26, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Ned Batchelder > wrote: >> Kevin started this thread by asking a question. Chris responded without >> helping the OP, and talked about Google Groups instead. That's not good. > > The only reason I didn't directly help the OP was because the code was > misformatted and it was necessary to request that it be reposted. > Perhaps I should have been clearer in saying "Please repost your code > with correct formatting", but there wasn't much else I could have > done. > > Or maybe I should have just filtered everything from Google Groups > into the bit bucket, because responding just creates threads like > this. Do you honestly think that would be better? No response at all > if the post comes from GG? I think Ned is being exceptionally helpful in keeping this list in order And you are being inflammatory in the above given that Ned just said: > I'm not telling people not to use Google Groups. In fact, I've said twice > now in > this thread that we have to accept Google Groups postings as part of this > list. > My point is simply that we have to take care not to turn this list into a list > about Google Groups, one way or the other. You are of course free to filter out GG posts if you wish -- thats a separable question. [And I reiterate my request to check why I have been kicked off from GG and have to use mail. As rurpy said I cant handle a mailing list volume of this scale for too long] -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Google Groups + this list
Rustom Mody wrote: > I seem to have been kicked off something or other -- > First thought it was google groups -- then saw some mails from Steven > describing similar 'non-reaching' problems. I don't think you can actually be kicked off Google Groups. Isn't it open to anyone with an account? If you have an account, can you log in? (I could be wrong -- I don't actually use it for various reasons which I'm happy to share if anyone cares but aren't actually germane to the issue at hand.) My issues were different. I'm posting via Usenet, and my ISP piggy-backs off some other Usenet hosting company. Occasionally they have temporary issues with posts being broken, either permanently or (in the most recent case) temporarily. > Anyway for the last couple of days I'm getting mail bounces after > about 24 hours to all my posts (via GG) Sounds like a problem with GG, probably some temporary misconfiguration with one of their servers which will be attended to once Google get a round tuit. > So trying a different route -- Does this reach? > > [And if it does... Merry Christmas!] Got it, thanks! > Heres the kind of bounce message I get (with emails crossed out) > > > On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Mail Delivery Subsystem > wrote: >> >> Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently: >> >> comp.lang.python AT usenet.google.com Looks like Google implements their Usenet mirror via email, instead of using a News server. I have no idea if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but its a thing. -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Variables in a loop, Newby question
Chris Angelico wrote: > Does anyone else have the vague feeling that the OP's problem might be > better served by simply importing the script (thus making those values > available to another Python script) than by any of these rather more > complicated theories? Damn yes! -- Steven -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Apache restart after source changes
I am evaluating Python for web development and just found out that I need to restart Apache after source changes on windows. Using linux the situation is better but I still have to touch the wsgi file. Is it only me that finds this being a major drawback compared to PHP? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Getting updates and restarting a long running url request.
> I am using the following code to submit the query/
> def get_BLAST(taxid, queryseq, args=None):
> '''
> Input taxid to BLAST queryseq against
> '''
> e_query = "txid" + taxid + " [ORGN]"
> #, other_advanced='-G 4 -E 1'
> blast_result = NCBIWWW.qblast("blastn", "nt", queryseq, megablast=True,
> entrez_query=e_query, word_size='11', other_advanced='-G 5 -E 2')
> return NCBIXML.read(blast_result)
Could you keep track of success?
result_dict = dict()
for id in taxid_list:
result_dict[id] = False
while not all(result_dict.values()): # continue if not every ID was successful
for id in taxid_list:
if result_dict[id]:
continue # We were already successful with this ID
try:
this_result = get_BLAST(id)
result_dict[id] = True
except:
print("A warning.")
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Apache restart after source changes
On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 09:57:42PM -0800, Fredrik Bertilsson wrote: > I am evaluating Python for web development and just found out that I need to > restart Apache after source changes on windows. Using linux the situation is > better but I still have to touch the wsgi file. Is it only me that finds this > being a major drawback compared to PHP? How is it a «major drawback». «Oh, god, I have to touch that file! This is unbearable! It's unbeliavable!!! How awful». Also, it's not a python issue, it's an issue with your particular stack. Other stacks do automatic reloading (for example, the web server that Django uses). -- Eduardo Alan Bustamante López -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Apache restart after source changes
> Also, it's not a python issue, it's an issue with your particular > stack. Other stacks do automatic reloading (for example, the web > server that Django uses). Which web server do you suggest instead of Apache, which doesn't have this problem? (I am not planning to use Django) -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Variables in a loop, Newby question
On 12/24/2013 11:27 AM, vanommen.rob...@gmail.com wrote:
> Indeed this is code what I found on the web to read temperatures from
> 10 DS18B20 singlewire sensors.
>
> My only programming (little) experience is VBA (Excel mostly).
>
Definitely you'll want to learn python before you go much farther in
this project. Check out the online docs, tutorials, etc.
> In this script i want to read the temperatures and make them
> available to other scripts.
Here's some almost runnable code that might help you get down the right
track. You'll have to fill in some of the stuff.
temperatures.py:
import time
sensorids = [...] #fill in these with your ids
def _read_sensor(id):
# open /sys/bus/w1/deevices/id/slave
text = ''
while text.split("\n")[0].find("YES") == -1:
tfile = open("/sys/bus/w1/devices/"+ id +"/w1_slave")
text = tfile.read()
tfile.close()
time.sleep(0.1)
temperaturedata = text.split("\n")[1].split(" ")[9]it(" ")[9]
temperature = float(temperaturedata [2:]) / 1000
return temperature
def get_temperatures():
# not using list comprehensions but we could
temps = []
for sensor in sensorids:
temps.append(_read_sensor(sensor))
Then in your other python modules (scripts):
import temperatures
print temperatures.get_temperatures() # should print a list
Hope this gives you a bit of structure you can use. All the code you
need to fill in can come from the code you posted previously.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
