RE: Pspp-users Digest, Vol 191, Issue 13

[Noertjojo, Kukuh]

Gene
Thank you so much! This is a great paper for us.
Kukuh

-Original Message-
From: Pspp-users 
[mailto:pspp-users-bounces+kukuh.noertjojo=worksafebc@gnu.org] On Behalf Of 
pspp-users-requ...@gnu.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2022 9:01 AM
To: pspp-users@gnu.org
Subject: Pspp-users Digest, Vol 191, Issue 13

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Today's Topics:

   1. pspp, review of free to use statistical software (someone)
   2. Re: pspp, review of free to use statistical software (Ben Pfaff)
   3. pspp, review of free to use statistical software (someone)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 23 May 2022 22:10:01 + (UTC)
From: someone 
To: "am...@alanmead.org" 
Cc: "pspp-users@gnu.org" 
Subject: pspp, review of free to use statistical software
Message-ID: <1878727290.1533420.1653343801...@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi all
I recently published, on SSRN, this paper
Shackman, Gene, Free To Use Statistical Software: Comparing Statistical 
Analyses (May 10, 2022). 
https://can01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpapers.ssrn.com%2Fsol3%2Fpapers.cfm%3Fabstract_id%3D4105959&data=05%7C01%7Ckukuh.noertjojo%40worksafebc.com%7C21ff9bb14c02401771da08da3da1d5eb%7C05c5c963c8394c9eb5c1b51b3799ac37%7C0%7C0%7C637890062527817942%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JBe11L1wAKxiQ2BeE00Z2r0zwFH5JM18GN%2F5HZcbiMA%3D&reserved=0
The good news is that all the packages give the same statistical results. They 
don't all have all the same analyses available, but when they do, their results 
are pretty much the same.
I include PSPP, among others. I'll periodically update the paper, when new 
versions of software come out.
I hope you all find it useful.
And, stay healthy.
Thanks
Gene
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 


--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 23 May 2022 15:27:14 -0700
From: Ben Pfaff 
To: someone 
Cc: "am...@alanmead.org" , "pspp-users@gnu.org"

Subject: Re: pspp, review of free to use statistical software
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Thanks for including PSPP!

On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 3:10 PM someone  wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I recently published, on SSRN, this paper
>
> Shackman, Gene, Free To Use Statistical Software: Comparing Statistical 
> Analyses (May 10, 2022).
> https://can01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpapers.ssrn.com%2Fsol3%2Fpapers.cfm%3Fabstract_id%3D4105959&data=05%7C01%7Ckukuh.noertjojo%40worksafebc.com%7C21ff9bb14c02401771da08da3da1d5eb%7C05c5c963c8394c9eb5c1b51b3799ac37%7C0%7C0%7C637890062527817942%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JBe11L1wAKxiQ2BeE00Z2r0zwFH5JM18GN%2F5HZcbiMA%3D&reserved=0
>
> The good news is that all the packages give the same statistical results. 
> They don't all have all the same analyses available, but when they do, their 
> results are pretty much the same.
>
> I include PSPP, among others. I'll periodically update the paper, when new 
> versions of software come out.
>
> I hope you all find it useful.
>
> And, stay healthy.
>
> Thanks
>
> Gene
>



--

Message: 3

Temporary

[jhwhite]

I am using the PSPP syntax commands:

 

TEMPORARY

SELECT IF (VAR1 >=1)

 

Here is the question, I have several PSPP books. The "TEMPORARY" filter gets
me the data I desired, but how do I get the data file back to the complete
data set before I ran the PSPP syntax? I could not find the resolution in my
PSPP books.

 

Take care,

John

___

 



 

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com

 

Re: Temporary

[ft gmail]

If I understand your question you get the data automatically "back" as 
the filter command only works for the next command or procedure.


If you run

temp.
sel if (vars >=1)
freq varx to vary.
SAVE /OUTFILE={’file_name’,file_handle}

you save the complete data set without the effect of the filter.

HTH

ftr


On 24/05/2022 21:03, jhwh...@techwriteinc.com wrote:


I am using the PSPP syntax commands:

TEMPORARY

SELECT IF (VAR1 >=1)

Here is the question, I have several PSPP books. The “TEMPORARY” 
filter gets me the data I desired, but how do I get the data file back 
to the complete data set before I ran the PSPP syntax? I could not 
find the resolution in my PSPP books.


Take care,

John

___

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com

RE: Temporary

[jhwhite]

Thank you for the response.  I agree with you.  I ran a command after the 
“TEMPORARY” command – but the entire data set is still missing most of the data 
due to my “SELECT IF” COMMAND.  The workaround is I am creating separate files 
for each select if command I use.  Bulky for now. . . 

 

Take care,

John

___

 



 

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com

 

From: Pspp-users  On 
Behalf Of ft gmail
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2022 3:45 PM
To: pspp-users@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Temporary

 

If I understand your question you get the data automatically "back" as the 
filter command only works for the next command or procedure. 

If you run

temp.
sel if (vars >=1)
freq varx to vary.
SAVE /OUTFILE={’file_name’,file_handle} 

you save the complete data set without the effect of the filter.

HTH

ftr

 

On 24/05/2022 21:03, jhwh...@techwriteinc.com  
 wrote:

I am using the PSPP syntax commands:

 

TEMPORARY

SELECT IF (VAR1 >=1)

 

Here is the question, I have several PSPP books. The “TEMPORARY” filter gets me 
the data I desired, but how do I get the data file back to the complete data 
set before I ran the PSPP syntax? I could not find the resolution in my PSPP 
books.

 

Take care,

John

___

 



 

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com  

 

Pspp-users Digest, Vol 191, Issue 13

[someone]

I'm happy you find this useful.
Gene


-Original Message-
From: Noertjojo, Kukuh 
To: pspp-users@gnu.org 
Sent: Tue, May 24, 2022 12:32 pm
Subject: RE: Pspp-users Digest, Vol 191, Issue 13

Gene
Thank you so much! This is a great paper for us.
Kukuh

-Original Message-
From: Pspp-users 
[mailto:pspp-users-bounces+kukuh.noertjojo=worksafebc@gnu.org] On Behalf Of 
pspp-users-requ...@gnu.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2022 9:01 AM
To: pspp-users@gnu.org
Subject: Pspp-users Digest, Vol 191, Issue 13


Today's Topics:

  1. pspp, review of free to use statistical software (someone)
  2. Re: pspp, review of free to use statistical software (Ben Pfaff)
  3. pspp, review of free to use statistical software (someone)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 23 May 2022 22:10:01 + (UTC)
From: someone 
To: "am...@alanmead.org" 
Cc: "pspp-users@gnu.org" 
Subject: pspp, review of free to use statistical software

Hi all
I recently published, on SSRN, this paper
Shackman, Gene, Free To Use Statistical Software: Comparing Statistical 
Analyses (May 10, 
2022).https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4105959
The good news is that all the packages give the same statistical results. They 
don't all have all the same analyses available, but when they do, their results 
are pretty much the same.
I include PSPP, among others. I'll periodically update the paper, when new 
versions of software come out.
I hope you all find it useful.
And, stay healthy.
Thanks
Gene

Re: Temporary

[Alan Mead]

Sounds like a bug. If you do:

temporary.

select if(X>1).

freq / x.

freq / X.

My understanding is that the first FREQ should only show X > 1 and the 
second should show all cases. In fact, the manual entry uses almost this 
exact syntax:


https://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/html_node/TEMPORARY.html

There's also FILTER, which is (IMO) a more modern way to do this. FILTER 
is not temporary (in that sense), but can be disabled with "FILTER OFF." 
and depending on what you are selecting, you might prefer "SPLIT FILE":


https://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/html_node/FILTER.html

https://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/html_node/SPLIT-FILE.html

https://www.garyfisk.com/pspp/30splitFile.html

-Alan


On 5/24/2022 2:52 PM, jhwh...@techwriteinc.com wrote:


Thank you for the response.  I agree with you.  I ran a command after 
the “TEMPORARY” command – but the entire data set is still missing 
most of the data due to my “SELECT IF” COMMAND.  The workaround is I 
am creating separate files for each select if command I use.  Bulky 
for now. . .


Take care,

John

___

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com

*From:* Pspp-users 
 *On Behalf Of 
*ft gmail

*Sent:* Tuesday, May 24, 2022 3:45 PM
*To:* pspp-users@gnu.org
*Subject:* Re: Temporary

If I understand your question you get the data automatically "back" as 
the filter command only works for the next command or procedure.


If you run

temp.
sel if (vars >=1)
freq varx to vary.
SAVE /OUTFILE={’file_name’,file_handle}

you save the complete data set without the effect of the filter.

HTH

ftr

On 24/05/2022 21:03, jhwh...@techwriteinc.com wrote:

I am using the PSPP syntax commands:

TEMPORARY

SELECT IF (VAR1 >=1)

Here is the question, I have several PSPP books. The “TEMPORARY”
filter gets me the data I desired, but how do I get the data file
back to the complete data set before I ran the PSPP syntax? I
could not find the resolution in my PSPP books.

Take care,

John

___

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com


--

Alan D. Mead, Ph.D.
President, Talent Algorithms Inc.

science + technology = better workers

https://talalg.com


Tsai Yu used to sleep during the day.

The Master said: "Rotten wood cannot be carved, walls made of dirt and
mud cannot be plastered: what is the good of reprimanding Yu?"

"At first," he continued, "my way of dealing with others was to listen
to their words and to take their actions upon trust. Now, my way is to
listen to what they say and then to watch what they do. This change in
me is owing to Yu."

-- Confucius, Confucian Analects

RE: Temporary

[jhwhite]

Ok – Alan.  I will give it a try.

 

 

 

Take care,

John

___

 



 

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com

 

From: Pspp-users  On 
Behalf Of Alan Mead
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2022 7:08 PM
To: pspp-users@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Temporary

 

Sounds like a bug. If you do:

temporary.

select if(X>1).

freq / x.

freq / X.

My understanding is that the first FREQ should only show X > 1 and the second 
should show all cases. In fact, the manual entry uses almost this exact syntax:

https://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/html_node/TEMPORARY.html

There's also FILTER, which is (IMO) a more modern way to do this. FILTER is not 
temporary (in that sense), but can be disabled with "FILTER OFF." and depending 
on what you are selecting, you might prefer "SPLIT FILE":

https://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/html_node/FILTER.html

https://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/html_node/SPLIT-FILE.html

https://www.garyfisk.com/pspp/30splitFile.html

-Alan

 

On 5/24/2022 2:52 PM, jhwh...@techwriteinc.com 
  wrote:

Thank you for the response.  I agree with you.  I ran a command after the 
“TEMPORARY” command – but the entire data set is still missing most of the data 
due to my “SELECT IF” COMMAND.  The workaround is I am creating separate files 
for each select if command I use.  Bulky for now. . . 

 

Take care,

John

___

 



 

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com  

 

From: Pspp-users   
 On Behalf Of ft gmail
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2022 3:45 PM
To: pspp-users@gnu.org  
Subject: Re: Temporary

 

If I understand your question you get the data automatically "back" as the 
filter command only works for the next command or procedure. 

If you run

temp.
sel if (vars >=1)
freq varx to vary.
SAVE /OUTFILE={’file_name’,file_handle} 

you save the complete data set without the effect of the filter.

HTH

ftr

 

On 24/05/2022 21:03, jhwh...@techwriteinc.com  
 wrote:

I am using the PSPP syntax commands:

 

TEMPORARY

SELECT IF (VAR1 >=1)

 

Here is the question, I have several PSPP books. The “TEMPORARY” filter gets me 
the data I desired, but how do I get the data file back to the complete data 
set before I ran the PSPP syntax? I could not find the resolution in my PSPP 
books.

 

Take care,

John

___

 



 

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com  

 

-- 
 
Alan D. Mead, Ph.D.
President, Talent Algorithms Inc.
 
science + technology = better workers
 
https://talalg.com
 
 
Tsai Yu used to sleep during the day.
 
The Master said: "Rotten wood cannot be carved, walls made of dirt and
mud cannot be plastered: what is the good of reprimanding Yu?"
 
"At first," he continued, "my way of dealing with others was to listen
to their words and to take their actions upon trust. Now, my way is to
listen to what they say and then to watch what they do. This change in
me is owing to Yu."
 
-- Confucius, Confucian Analects
 
 

Error Message on PSPP created PDF files

[jhwhite]

Hi,

 

Every time I create PDF files in PSPP, I have issues.  Specifically, after
the file is created, I try to open the file I get a PDF 114 error message.
I tried reinstalling my Adobe Acrobat DC and PSPP - neither action worked.
I also tried to delete the "Advanced Metadata" option in "properties -
description" - to no avail.

 

Take care,

John

___

 



 

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com

 

Re: Error Message on PSPP created PDF files

[Alan Mead]

What, exactly, are you doing?

I took the syntax from the PSPP manual page on Temporary 
(https://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/html_node/TEMPORARY.html), 
opened a new syntax window, pasted that syntax. Ran it. Selected 
"Export..." on the output window and saved it to the attached PDF (I'm 
assuming I can send a PDF...).


And I have no trouble opening it.

I'm using Windows 10 and PSPP version GNU pspp 1.5.3-g797d4c

BTW, this output suggests that TEMPORARY is operating as expected in the 
version of PSPP I'm using.


-Alan


On 5/24/2022 7:41 PM, jhwh...@techwriteinc.com wrote:


Hi,

Every time I create PDF files in PSPP, I have issues.  Specifically, 
after the file is created, I try to open the file I get a PDF 114 
error message.  I tried reinstalling my Adobe Acrobat DC and PSPP – 
neither action worked.  I also tried to delete the “Advanced Metadata” 
option in “properties – description” – to no avail.


Take care,

John

___

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com


--

Alan D. Mead, Ph.D.
President, Talent Algorithms Inc.

science + technology = better workers

https://talalg.com


Tsai Yu used to sleep during the day.

The Master said: "Rotten wood cannot be carved, walls made of dirt and
mud cannot be plastered: what is the good of reprimanding Yu?"

"At first," he continued, "my way of dealing with others was to listen
to their words and to take their actions upon trust. Now, my way is to
listen to what they say and then to watch what they do. This change in
me is owing to Yu."

-- Confucius, Confucian Analects



temp.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

RE: Error Message on PSPP created PDF files

[jhwhite]

I will try again, Alan.

 

On the PDF issue, I was trying to export the PDF through the Export option. 
When I use the print file option to create the PDF – it works fine. This issue 
is resolved.

 

Thank you, Alan.

 

Take care,

John

___

 



 

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com

 

From: Alan Mead  
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2022 9:03 PM
To: pspp-users@gnu.org
Cc: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com
Subject: Re: Error Message on PSPP created PDF files

 

What, exactly, are you doing?

I took the syntax from the PSPP manual page on Temporary 
(https://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/html_node/TEMPORARY.html), opened a 
new syntax window, pasted that syntax. Ran it. Selected "Export..." on the 
output window and saved it to the attached PDF (I'm assuming I can send a 
PDF...).

And I have no trouble opening it. 

I'm using Windows 10 and PSPP version GNU pspp 1.5.3-g797d4c

BTW, this output suggests that TEMPORARY is operating as expected in the 
version of PSPP I'm using.

-Alan

 

On 5/24/2022 7:41 PM, jhwh...@techwriteinc.com 
  wrote:

Hi,

 

Every time I create PDF files in PSPP, I have issues.  Specifically, after the 
file is created, I try to open the file I get a PDF 114 error message.  I tried 
reinstalling my Adobe Acrobat DC and PSPP – neither action worked.  I also 
tried to delete the “Advanced Metadata” option in “properties – description” – 
to no avail.

 

Take care,

John

___

 



 

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com  

 

-- 
 
Alan D. Mead, Ph.D.
President, Talent Algorithms Inc.
 
science + technology = better workers
 
https://talalg.com
 
 
Tsai Yu used to sleep during the day.
 
The Master said: "Rotten wood cannot be carved, walls made of dirt and
mud cannot be plastered: what is the good of reprimanding Yu?"
 
"At first," he continued, "my way of dealing with others was to listen
to their words and to take their actions upon trust. Now, my way is to
listen to what they say and then to watch what they do. This change in
me is owing to Yu."
 
-- Confucius, Confucian Analects
 
 

Re: Error Message on PSPP created PDF files

[amead]

I think creating a PDF using Print uses a system component (i.e., some 
Windows or third-party software creates the PDF).


But since exporting a PDF works for me, I'm not sure why you're having 
difficulties. Was there a PDF attached (temp.pdf) to my prior reply, and 
were you able to open it?  That might give us a clue.


Also, I assume this behavior stays consistent across system reboots? It 
seems like the first step in trouble-shooting problems with 
Windows-based software is to reboot the computer.


-Alan


On 5/24/2022 8:14 PM, jhwh...@techwriteinc.com wrote:


I will try again, Alan.

On the PDF issue, I was trying to export the PDF through the Export 
option. When I use the print file option to create the PDF – it works 
fine. This issue is resolved.


Thank you, Alan.

Take care,

John

___

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com

*From:* Alan Mead 
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 24, 2022 9:03 PM
*To:* pspp-users@gnu.org
*Cc:* jhwh...@techwriteinc.com
*Subject:* Re: Error Message on PSPP created PDF files

What, exactly, are you doing?

I took the syntax from the PSPP manual page on Temporary 
(https://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/html_node/TEMPORARY.html), 
opened a new syntax window, pasted that syntax. Ran it. Selected 
"Export..." on the output window and saved it to the attached PDF (I'm 
assuming I can send a PDF...).


And I have no trouble opening it.

I'm using Windows 10 and PSPP version GNU pspp 1.5.3-g797d4c

BTW, this output suggests that TEMPORARY is operating as expected in 
the version of PSPP I'm using.


-Alan

On 5/24/2022 7:41 PM, jhwh...@techwriteinc.com wrote:

Hi,

Every time I create PDF files in PSPP, I have issues. 
Specifically, after the file is created, I try to open the file I
get a PDF 114 error message.  I tried reinstalling my Adobe
Acrobat DC and PSPP – neither action worked.  I also tried to
delete the “Advanced Metadata” option in “properties –
description” – to no avail.

Take care,

John

___

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com

--
Alan D. Mead, Ph.D.
President, Talent Algorithms Inc.
science + technology = better workers
https://talalg.com
Tsai Yu used to sleep during the day.
The Master said: "Rotten wood cannot be carved, walls made of dirt and
mud cannot be plastered: what is the good of reprimanding Yu?"
"At first," he continued, "my way of dealing with others was to listen
to their words and to take their actions upon trust. Now, my way is to
listen to what they say and then to watch what they do. This change in
me is owing to Yu."
-- Confucius, Confucian Analects


--

Alan D. Mead, Ph.D.
President, Talent Algorithms Inc.

science + technology = better workers

https://talalg.com


Tsai Yu used to sleep during the day.

The Master said: "Rotten wood cannot be carved, walls made of dirt and
mud cannot be plastered: what is the good of reprimanding Yu?"

"At first," he continued, "my way of dealing with others was to listen
to their words and to take their actions upon trust. Now, my way is to
listen to what they say and then to watch what they do. This change in
me is owing to Yu."

-- Confucius, Confucian Analects

RE: Error Message on PSPP created PDF files

[jhwhite]

Alan,

 

Yes, I was able to print your file.  It is probably a bug on my end -- the 
question is who/what.  I will have to put this one aside until I get my grant 
application completed.  At least I can obtain a working PDF using the 
“File-Print PDF Option.” In the past, I have been able to use the export 
options.  Not sure when it quit working for me.

 

Take care,

John

___

 



 

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com

 

From: Pspp-users  On 
Behalf Of am...@alanmead.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2022 9:33 PM
To: pspp-users@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Error Message on PSPP created PDF files

 

I think creating a PDF using Print uses a system component (i.e., some Windows 
or third-party software creates the PDF). 

But since exporting a PDF works for me, I'm not sure why you're having 
difficulties. Was there a PDF attached (temp.pdf) to my prior reply, and were 
you able to open it?  That might give us a clue.

Also, I assume this behavior stays consistent across system reboots? It seems 
like the first step in trouble-shooting problems with Windows-based software is 
to reboot the computer.

-Alan

 

On 5/24/2022 8:14 PM, jhwh...@techwriteinc.com 
  wrote:

I will try again, Alan.

 

On the PDF issue, I was trying to export the PDF through the Export option. 
When I use the print file option to create the PDF – it works fine. This issue 
is resolved.

 

Thank you, Alan.

 

Take care,

John

___

 



 

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com  

 

From: Alan Mead    
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2022 9:03 PM
To: pspp-users@gnu.org  
Cc: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com  
Subject: Re: Error Message on PSPP created PDF files

 

What, exactly, are you doing?

I took the syntax from the PSPP manual page on Temporary 
(https://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/html_node/TEMPORARY.html), opened a 
new syntax window, pasted that syntax. Ran it. Selected "Export..." on the 
output window and saved it to the attached PDF (I'm assuming I can send a 
PDF...).

And I have no trouble opening it. 

I'm using Windows 10 and PSPP version GNU pspp 1.5.3-g797d4c

BTW, this output suggests that TEMPORARY is operating as expected in the 
version of PSPP I'm using.

-Alan

 

On 5/24/2022 7:41 PM, jhwh...@techwriteinc.com 
  wrote:

Hi,

 

Every time I create PDF files in PSPP, I have issues.  Specifically, after the 
file is created, I try to open the file I get a PDF 114 error message.  I tried 
reinstalling my Adobe Acrobat DC and PSPP – neither action worked.  I also 
tried to delete the “Advanced Metadata” option in “properties – description” – 
to no avail.

 

Take care,

John

___

 



 

Email: jhwh...@techwriteinc.com  

 

-- 
 
Alan D. Mead, Ph.D.
President, Talent Algorithms Inc.
 
science + technology = better workers
 
https://talalg.com
 
 
Tsai Yu used to sleep during the day.
 
The Master said: "Rotten wood cannot be carved, walls made of dirt and
mud cannot be plastered: what is the good of reprimanding Yu?"
 
"At first," he continued, "my way of dealing with others was to listen
to their words and to take their actions upon trust. Now, my way is to
listen to what they say and then to watch what they do. This change in
me is owing to Yu."
 
-- Confucius, Confucian Analects
 
 

-- 
 
Alan D. Mead, Ph.D.
President, Talent Algorithms Inc.
 
science + technology = better workers
 
https://talalg.com
 
 
Tsai Yu used to sleep during the day.
 
The Master said: "Rotten wood cannot be carved, walls made of dirt and
mud cannot be plastered: what is the good of reprimanding Yu?"
 
"At first," he continued, "my way of dealing with others was to listen
to their words and to take their actions upon trust. Now, my way is to
listen to what they say and then to watch what they do. This change in
me is owing to Yu."
 
-- Confucius, Confucian Analects