[pfx] Re: TAKE NOTE 3: Upcoming new Let's Encrypt intemediate issuer CAs.

2023-12-14 Thread Byung-Hee HWANG via Postfix-users
raf via Postfix-users  writes:

> On Fri, Dec 08, 2023 at 02:00:55PM -0500, Viktor Dukhovni via Postfix-users 
>  wrote:
>
>> So anyone relying on DANE-TA(2) (certificate usage 2) needs to closely
>> watch for upcoming announcements from LE, and be prepared to add TLSA
>> records for the new intemediates soon.  Or stop playing their game, and
>> switch to a robust "3 1 1" + "3 1 1" model with a stable by default
>> key during certificate renewals.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Viktor.
>
> You know it makes sense.
>

Hmm...
I'm serious now. I plan to start all 311 work in January next year. If
it weren't so hard.

Thanks for news, raf and Viktor!


Sincerely, Byung-Hee
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[pfx] Re: TAKE NOTE 3: Upcoming new Let's Encrypt intemediate issuer CAs.

2023-12-14 Thread Joachim Lindenberg via Postfix-users
I´d say Viktor is biased towards 3 1 1. You may call me biased towards 2 1 1 
because I dislike pinning a key that is supposed to rotate.
In any case you need to automate updates or monitoring and I do, though the 
relevant "change" use case in 2 1 1 didn´t happen so far.
Joachim

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Byung-Hee HWANG via Postfix-users  
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Dezember 2023 10:39
An: postfix-users@postfix.org
Betreff: [pfx] Re: TAKE NOTE 3: Upcoming new Let's Encrypt intemediate issuer 
CAs.

raf via Postfix-users  writes:

> On Fri, Dec 08, 2023 at 02:00:55PM -0500, Viktor Dukhovni via Postfix-users 
>  wrote:
>
>> So anyone relying on DANE-TA(2) (certificate usage 2) needs to 
>> closely watch for upcoming announcements from LE, and be prepared to 
>> add TLSA records for the new intemediates soon.  Or stop playing 
>> their game, and switch to a robust "3 1 1" + "3 1 1" model with a 
>> stable by default key during certificate renewals.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Viktor.
>
> You know it makes sense.
>

Hmm...
I'm serious now. I plan to start all 311 work in January next year. If it 
weren't so hard.

Thanks for news, raf and Viktor!


Sincerely, Byung-Hee
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[pfx] queue_lifetime clarification

2023-12-14 Thread anant--- via Postfix-users

Hello,

For some specific reason we had a requirement of holding the mails in  
mailq for the mails coming from a specific domain.


To achieve the same, added 2 lines in main.cf

bounce_queue_lifetime = 7d
maximal_queue_lifetime = 7d

and used header_checks to hold the mails in queue.

Now, as no decision is made, I want to continue to hold for another 13  
days more.


So, I have changed the following

bounce_queue_lifetime = 20d
maximal_queue_lifetime = 20d

and restarted the queue.


Will this change, hold the queue for another 13 days more? Or it  
remembers the earlier lifetime of 7 days for those in hold queue?


--
Anant S Athavale
--
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the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
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contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
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[pfx] Re: queue_lifetime clarification

2023-12-14 Thread Marek Podmaka via Postfix-users
On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 at 12:14, anant--- via Postfix-users <
postfix-users@postfix.org> wrote:

>
> and used header_checks to hold the mails in queue.
>
> Now, as no decision is made, I want to continue to hold for another 13
> days more.
>
>
> Will this change, hold the queue for another 13 days more? Or it
> remembers the earlier lifetime of 7 days for those in hold queue?
>
>
IMHO messages will stay in hold queue forever.
Man page for "postsuper" mentions that if you want to release a message
from hold queue, which has been there for a long time, you should use
"postfix -r", so it gets a new queue id and its lifetime starts from 0.
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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread Byung-Hee HWANG via Postfix-users
Wietse Venema via Postfix-users  writes:

> (...thanks...)
> That was a long time ago. Postfix has evolved as the Internet has
> changed. I am continuing the overhaul of this software, motivated
> by people like you on this mailing list.
>

Hellow Wietse!

I am running two Postfix servers for years, thanks!


Sincerely, Byung-Hee
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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread Varadi Gabor via Postfix-users

2023. 12. 14. 14:20 keltezéssel, Wietse Venema via Postfix-users írta:

As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the
"IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release. This was accompanied
by a nice article in the New York Times business section.


Thank you Wietse for your work and that of others.

--
  [Varadi Gabor]

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[pfx] Re: [ext] 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread Ralf Hildebrandt via Postfix-users
* Wietse Venema via Postfix-users :

> As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the
> "IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release. This was accompanied
> by a nice article in the New York Times business section.

Ah, it's today. Recently I scrolled through the Changelog and wondered
"oh, it's 25 years soon".
 
> That was a long time ago. Postfix has evolved as the Internet has
> changed. I am continuing the overhaul of this software, motivated
> by people like you on this mailing list.

Cheers, on to the next 25 years :*

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt
  Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netz | Netzwerk-Administration
  Invalidenstraße 120/121 | D-10115 Berlin
  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
  ralf.hildebra...@charite.de | https://www.charite.de

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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread Michael W. Lucas via Postfix-users


Congratulations, and thank you!

And for 25 years, you have been politely answering user questions
about it. I believe this makes you eligible for sainthood. :-)

==ml


-- 
Michael W. Lucashttps://mwl.io/
author of: Absolute OpenBSD, SSH Mastery, git commit murder,
 Absolute FreeBSD, Butterfly Stomp Waltz, Forever Falls, etc...
### New books: DNSSEC Mastery, Letters to ed(1), $ git sync murder ###
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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread John Hill via Postfix-users
I am a retired System Administrator. I have used Postfix to feed 
Exchange servers. I trust Postfix on the front line.


Now as a hobbyist I use it for my personal domain.

 Thank you for the continued dedication to the project.

25 years is a huge accomplishment.

 Congratulations!

--john


On 12/14/23 8:20 AM, Wietse Venema via Postfix-users wrote:

As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the
"IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release. This was accompanied
by a nice article in the New York Times business section.

There is some literature at https://www.postfix.org/press.html that
attests how this project accelerated open-source adoption by a very
large company.

At the time there were several efforts by people inside IBM to do
open-source projects, but it was the NY Times article that brought
open source on the radar of the CEO. He then tasked people to come
up with an open-source strategy for IBM.

As for the name Postfix, my colleagues and I had come up with
multiple names that were rejected each time (I still have some
Internet domains names from that time). We decided that this was
not going to work, released it as "IBM secure mailer", and then,
after IBM was no longer in control, changed the name to Postfix.

That was a long time ago. Postfix has evolved as the Internet has
changed. I am continuing the overhaul of this software, motivated
by people like you on this mailing list.

Wietse
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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via Postfix-users
Dnia 14.12.2023 o godz. 08:20:26 Wietse Venema via Postfix-users pisze:
> As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the
> "IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release. This was accompanied
> by a nice article in the New York Times business section.
[...]
> That was a long time ago. Postfix has evolved as the Internet has
> changed. I am continuing the overhaul of this software, motivated
> by people like you on this mailing list.

Big thanks and congratulations, Wietse!
-- 
Regards,
   Jaroslaw Rafa
   r...@rafa.eu.org
--
"In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there
was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."
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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread gino--- via Postfix-users
‌
hello Wietse‌,

We have been running hundreds of Postfix servers for more than twenty years now 
and all this thanks to you.
Postfix is the best MTA ever came out of an human brain. It is the swiss knife 
for mail things.

Postfix is to the mail what linux is to the OS, magic, fast, low energy.

many many thanks for what you did and you still do !

best regards,
Franck from LYON (France)



De : "Wietse Venema via Postfix-users"
A : "Postfix users"
Envoyé: jeudi 14 Décembre 2023 14:21
Objet : [pfx] 25 years today
 
As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the
"IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release. This was accompanied
by a nice article in the New York Times business section.

There is some literature at https://www.postfix.org/press.html that
attests how this project accelerated open-source adoption by a very
large company.

At the time there were several efforts by people inside IBM to do
open-source projects, but it was the NY Times article that brought
open source on the radar of the CEO. He then tasked people to come
up with an open-source strategy for IBM.

As for the name Postfix, my colleagues and I had come up with
multiple names that were rejected each time (I still have some
Internet domains names from that time). We decided that this was
not going to work, released it as "IBM secure mailer", and then,
after IBM was no longer in control, changed the name to Postfix.

That was a long time ago. Postfix has evolved as the Internet has
changed. I am continuing the overhaul of this software, motivated
by people like you on this mailing list.

Wietse
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[pfx] Re: TAKE NOTE 3: Upcoming new Let's Encrypt intemediate issuer CAs.

2023-12-14 Thread Viktor Dukhovni via Postfix-users
On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 11:04:32AM +0100, Joachim Lindenberg via Postfix-users 
wrote:

> I´d say Viktor is biased towards 3 1 1.

It isn't a bias, it is a rational recommendation.  There are multiple
issues with "2 1 1":

- With a public issuer CA, you're adding a redundant trusted party,
  with generally rather weak domain validation (DV) certificate
  issuance mechanisms.

- The underlying EE certificates are then subject to periodic
  expiration.  Some operators invariably fail to rotate them
  on time.

- A less common problem, but also unique to DANE-TA(2) is failure to
  match the hostname in the certificate.  Some operators neglect to
  make sure that the TLSA base domain aligns with a DNS name in the
  certificate.

- The CA operator can always surprise you with unexpected changes in
  their insfrastructure.

- With "3 1 1" *you* decide when to rotate your keys, pre-publish
  a "3 1 1" TLSA record matching next key, and then switch to that
  key once the TLSA record has been in place for a few TTLs.

> You may call me biased towards 2 1 1 because I dislike pinning a key
> that is supposed to rotate.

You're always pinning a key, either the issuer CA's or the end-entity
(EE) servers.  Only poor ACME tooling gets in the way of key rotation
with "3 1 1".

If you can prepare a key in advance of a certificate rollover,
prepublish the matching "3 1 1" and use that key conditionally on a
prepublication timer having elapsed, then you get key rollover without
introducing a redundant trusted third party or risking outages due to
certificate expiration, name match failures, ...

Each day, a handful of domains fail DANE validation, a large majority,
because of botched Let's Encrypt integration, where the key rotation
is not properly orchestrated.  They'd be far better off with a "pinned"
3 1 1, that they rollover at their discretion, rather than let the
ACME client break their mail system every 2 months.

-- 
Viktor.
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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread Viktor Dukhovni via Postfix-users
On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 08:20:26AM -0500, Wietse Venema via Postfix-users wrote:

> As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the
> "IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release. This was accompanied
> by a nice article in the New York Times business section.

Many thanks.  It's been a pleasure to come along for the ride, be it
late to the party, in April of 2001 at the suggestion of Bennett Todd.

-- 
Viktor.
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[pfx] Re: queue_lifetime clarification

2023-12-14 Thread Viktor Dukhovni via Postfix-users
On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 12:41:17PM +0100, Marek Podmaka via Postfix-users wrote:

> > and used header_checks to hold the mails in queue.
> >
> > Now, as no decision is made, I want to continue to hold for another 13
> > days more.
> >
> > Will this change, hold the queue for another 13 days more? Or it
> > remembers the earlier lifetime of 7 days for those in hold queue?
>
> IMHO messages will stay in hold queue forever.

Correct, held messages are not subject to the queue lifetime limits
while they're held.  Once released, delivery will be attempted at
least once, but if that delivery is not immediately successful,
the message may expire if old enough.

> Man page for "postsuper" mentions that if you want to release a message
> from hold queue, which has been there for a long time, you should use
> "postfix -r", so it gets a new queue id and its lifetime starts from 0.

Hence the recommendation to use "postsuper -r" (not "postfix -r").

-- 
Viktor.
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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread ghe2001 via Postfix-users
It's been that long!  I remember trying to learn IP and set up a domain on the 
'Net back in the early 2000s (my computer schooling happened when there was no 
Internet).  And being bewildered with Sendmail.  Then I read that the Sendmail 
config looked like a cat had taken a nap on the keyboard -- and found Postfix.  

Thanks Wietse for the program and all on this list for the help over the years!

--
Glenn English

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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread testeur via Postfix-users
Thx Wietse for this part of history and for this best MTA software known 
as postfix.


On 14/12/2023 14:20, Wietse Venema via Postfix-users wrote:

As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the
"IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release. This was accompanied
by a nice article in the New York Times business section.

There is some literature at https://www.postfix.org/press.html that
attests how this project accelerated open-source adoption by a very
large company.

At the time there were several efforts by people inside IBM to do
open-source projects, but it was the NY Times article that brought
open source on the radar of the CEO. He then tasked people to come
up with an open-source strategy for IBM.

As for the name Postfix, my colleagues and I had come up with
multiple names that were rejected each time (I still have some
Internet domains names from that time). We decided that this was
not going to work, released it as "IBM secure mailer", and then,
after IBM was no longer in control, changed the name to Postfix.

That was a long time ago. Postfix has evolved as the Internet has
changed. I am continuing the overhaul of this software, motivated
by people like you on this mailing list.

Wietse
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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread Mike via Postfix-users



This accomplishment must feel awesome to those of you that started  
this thing and as well to those of you that have participated along  
the way.


Thanks for your dedication.  I hope you found joy along the way.

Mike

Quoting Viktor Dukhovni via Postfix-users :

On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 08:20:26AM -0500, Wietse Venema via  
Postfix-users wrote:



As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the
"IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release. This was accompanied
by a nice article in the New York Times business section.


Many thanks.  It's been a pleasure to come along for the ride, be it
late to the party, in April of 2001 at the suggestion of Bennett Todd.

--
   Viktor.
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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread Michael Grimm via Postfix-users
Wietse Venema via Postfix-users  wrote:

> As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the
> "IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release.

[…]

> That was a long time ago. Postfix has evolved as the Internet has
> changed. I am continuing the overhaul of this software, motivated
> by people like you on this mailing list.

Thank you for your dedication to postfix, and thank you for your patience over 
all those years helping newbies to understand postfix.

I started 16 years ago in running postfix, and I do have to admit, that setting 
up a MTA server without disturbing all others out there has been the most 
difficult task in my career as a hobby sysadmin ;-)

With kind regards,
Michael
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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread Kirill Miazine via Postfix-users

• Wietse Venema via Postfix-users [2023-12-14 14:20]:

As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the
"IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release. This was accompanied
by a nice article in the New York Times business section.

There is some literature at https://www.postfix.org/press.html that
attests how this project accelerated open-source adoption by a very
large company.

At the time there were several efforts by people inside IBM to do
open-source projects, but it was the NY Times article that brought
open source on the radar of the CEO. He then tasked people to come
up with an open-source strategy for IBM.

As for the name Postfix, my colleagues and I had come up with
multiple names that were rejected each time (I still have some
Internet domains names from that time). We decided that this was
not going to work, released it as "IBM secure mailer", and then,
after IBM was no longer in control, changed the name to Postfix.

That was a long time ago. Postfix has evolved as the Internet has
changed. I am continuing the overhaul of this software, motivated
by people like you on this mailing list.


Thank you for your continued work on Postfix, despite declaring it 
"complete" long time ago :)


-- Kirill

(...who is mostly an Exim person, but still running Postfix on "dumb" 
hosts now, and had Postfix do some virus scanning 20+ years ago...)

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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread John Fawcett via Postfix-users



On 14/12/2023 14:20, Wietse Venema via Postfix-users wrote:

As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the
"IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release. This was accompanied
by a nice article in the New York Times business section.


Thanks Wietse and to all who have contributed.

Apart from being the only MTA software I'd want to use, this project 
stands out for its exemplary software engineering from design to 
implementation and for the dedication to it's support and evolution.


Happy anniversary Wietse and everyone!

John

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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread Noel Jones via Postfix-users

On 12/14/2023 7:20 AM, Wietse Venema via Postfix-users wrote:

As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the
"IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release. This was accompanied
by a nice article in the New York Times business section.


Congratulations on this milestone!

Your kind and respectful attitude towards all the list members sets 
the tone for this list, making it a great resource for both newbies 
and experts. I think this list is one of the best features of postfix.


Looking forward to many more years! Thanks!


  -- Noel Jones
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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread raf via Postfix-users
On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 08:20:26AM -0500, Wietse Venema via Postfix-users 
 wrote:

> As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the
> "IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release. This was accompanied
> by a nice article in the New York Times business section.
> 
> There is some literature at https://www.postfix.org/press.html that
> attests how this project accelerated open-source adoption by a very
> large company.
> 
> At the time there were several efforts by people inside IBM to do
> open-source projects, but it was the NY Times article that brought
> open source on the radar of the CEO. He then tasked people to come
> up with an open-source strategy for IBM.
> 
> As for the name Postfix, my colleagues and I had come up with
> multiple names that were rejected each time (I still have some
> Internet domains names from that time). We decided that this was
> not going to work, released it as "IBM secure mailer", and then,
> after IBM was no longer in control, changed the name to Postfix.
> 
> That was a long time ago. Postfix has evolved as the Internet has
> changed. I am continuing the overhaul of this software, motivated
> by people like you on this mailing list.
> 
>   Wietse

Thanks so much for Postfix. Nietzsche once said that hell is other people.
I've often thought that hell is other people's software. But not Postfix. :-)
The design considerations and implementation are brilliant.
How it stayed so good for 25 years is a testament to your great judgement.

cheers,
raf

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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread Rob Sterenborg (Lists) via Postfix-users

On 14-12-2023 14:20, Wietse Venema via Postfix-users wrote:

As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the
"IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release. This was accompanied
by a nice article in the New York Times business section.


...


That was a long time ago. Postfix has evolved as the Internet has
changed. I am continuing the overhaul of this software, motivated
by people like you on this mailing list.

Wietse


Back in 2001 or so, I needed an MTA at the place I worked, and I wasn't 
too experienced. So I tried Sendmail because it was the default, didn't 
understand it, so that didn't work out. Next I somehow found Qmail (it's 
too long ago to remember how that happened), and found it even worse to 
handle. Then I found Postfix, and immediately got it to work for what I 
needed it to do. Since then, I've been using Postfix for all mail 
servers I've ever built, never looked back.


A big thank you for this excellent piece of software and all the support 
we're still getting!



--
Rob

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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread Voytek Eymont via Postfix-users
Thank you Wietse, Viktor and others on Postfix team for your work and support 
offered!

Thanks, Rodney, for telling me about Postfix all those years ago!

Thank you to all on this ml for putting up with my often (usually?) ignorant 
queries!

Hope to be around for at least some part of next 25 years...

Voytek

On 15 December 2023 12:20:26 am AEDT, Wietse Venema via Postfix-users 
 wrote:

>That was a long time ago. Postfix has evolved as the Internet has
>changed. I am continuing the overhaul of this software, motivated
>by people like you on this mailing list.
>
>   Wietse
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-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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[pfx] Re: 25 years today

2023-12-14 Thread Steffen Nurpmeso via Postfix-users
Wietse Venema via Postfix-users wrote in
 <4srxyy1hslzj...@spike.porcupine.org>:
 |As a few on this list may recall, it is 25 years ago today that the
 |"IBM secure mailer" had its public beta release. This was accompanied
 |by a nice article in the New York Times business section.
 |
 |There is some literature at https://www.postfix.org/press.html that
 |attests how this project accelerated open-source adoption by a very
 |large company.
 |
 |At the time there were several efforts by people inside IBM to do
 |open-source projects, but it was the NY Times article that brought
 |open source on the radar of the CEO. He then tasked people to come
 |up with an open-source strategy for IBM.
 |
 |As for the name Postfix, my colleagues and I had come up with
 |multiple names that were rejected each time (I still have some
 |Internet domains names from that time). We decided that this was
 |not going to work, released it as "IBM secure mailer", and then,
 |after IBM was no longer in control, changed the name to Postfix.
 |
 |That was a long time ago. Postfix has evolved as the Internet has
 |changed. I am continuing the overhaul of this software, motivated
 |by people like you on this mailing list.

Thank you very much for your effort!

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter   he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)
|
| Only in December: lightful Dubai COP28 Narendra Modi quote:
|  A small part of humanity has ruthlessly exploited nature.
|  But the entire humanity is bearing the cost of it,
|  especially the inhabitants of the Global South.
|  The selfishness of a few will lead the world into darkness,
|  not just for themselves but for the entire world.
|  [Christians might think of Revelation 11:18
|The nations were angry, and your wrath has come[.]
|[.]for destroying those who destroy the earth.
|   But i find the above more kind, and much friendlier]
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[pfx] Re: queue_lifetime clarification

2023-12-14 Thread anant--- via Postfix-users

 - Message from Viktor Dukhovni via Postfix-users
 -
    Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 13:10:55 -0500
    From: Viktor Dukhovni via Postfix-users 
Reply-To: postfix-users@postfix.org, Viktor Dukhovni

Subject: [pfx] Re: queue_lifetime clarification
      To: postfix-users@postfix.org


On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 12:41:17PM +0100, Marek Podmaka via
Postfix-users wrote:


and used header_checks to hold the mails in queue.

Now, as no decision is made, I want to continue to hold for another 13
days more.

Will this change, hold the queue for another 13 days more? Or it
remembers the earlier lifetime of 7 days for those in hold queue?

IMHO messages will stay in hold queue forever.


Correct, held messages are not subject to the queue lifetime limits
while they're held.  Once released, delivery will be attempted at
least once, but if that delivery is not immediately successful,
the message may expire if old enough.


Man page for "postsuper" mentions that if you want to release a message
from hold queue, which has been there for a long time, you should use
"postfix -r", so it gets a new queue id and its lifetime starts from 0.


Hence the recommendation to use "postsuper -r" (not "postfix -r").

--
   Viktor.
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- End message from Viktor Dukhovni via Postfix-users
 -

Thank you all.
 Anant S Athavale
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