[opensource-dev] Snow Storm / Mac, missing file?
Hello, thought I would try building the newest source... not seeing directions.. Did this: hg clone http://hg.secondlife.com/viewer-development bucky:linden dls$ pwd /usr/local/src/slviewer/linden bucky:linden dls$ ls BuildParamsindra build.shinstall.xml docscripts etcviewer-hg-convert.shamap poked around.. ok, this looks like the one: bucky:linden dls$ ./scripts/automated_build_scripts/opensrc-build.sh + export PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/Users/dls/.nvm/v0.1.96/bin:/opt/local/bin:/opt/local/sbin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11/bin [. etc.] + cd ./scripts/automated_build_scripts/./../.. + test -x ../linden/scripts/automated_build_scripts/opensrc-build.sh + . doc/asset_urls.txt ./scripts/automated_build_scripts/opensrc-build.sh: line 139: doc/asset_urls.txt: No such file or directory I dont see asset_urls.txt anywhere in the tree. I also saw reference to parabuild.. and: bucky:linden dls$ hg clone http://hg.lindenlab.com/parabuild/buildscripts abort: error: Operation timed out So, am I just trying to build this too early, or are there some missing files/components? cheers, Daniel -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Open Viewer Development Announcement
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) < o...@lindenlab.com> wrote: > On 2010-08-16 14:23, Henri Beauchamp wrote: > > Well, the first improvement to do is to actually revert 80% of the UI > to the way v1.23's one was working, especially getting rid of that > moronic side bar is its modal tools which impair productivity and > user-friendliness... The question is: will LL finally admit that the > viewer 2 UI is a failure and widely rejected by 80% of its regular user > base, and accept a move in the way of "going back" (actually repairing) > UI-wise ?... > > > I've said this before, and I'll repeat it again here: > > Don't waste everyones time suggesting that we throw away Viewer 2, or that > we revert the UI to Viewer 1. It is absolutely not going to happen, and > any suggestion to that effect will be ignored. > > There is a brief honeymoon period where the community will try to work with you. If you show that you are not listening, then the community will collectively throw their hands up in the air, and go the OpenSim + 3rd party viewer route. The SL Viewer is not the only game in town. Your own statistics as to which viewers are being used certainly should bear that out. Daniel -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?
What if I dont want someone to use my username as their display name? This seems like a reasonable request. I shouldn't have to be a celebrity, etc. I just want to avoid confusion. Not to make a pun, but it's my namespace. I would propose that we get an account setting: AllowMyNameForDisplay Have it set to "no" by default. If I feel like turning it on so that others can use my name, then fine, that would be me "opting in". cheers, Daniel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?
I'll ask the Lindens a direct question: What will you do to prevent others from using my username as their displayname? I dont care what people do in group tags - that is different. I dont want to see my name (in any form, uppercase, lowercase, with or without dots or spaces, etc.) used as a displayname by anyone. And it's not just a display issue. What happens with chat and im logs? Are they going to only show the displayname? Daniel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Michael Schlenker wrote: > > > How about a display option in the viewer that can 'highlight' the fact that > your display name is the same as your username > (different colour, font or an other UI hint). > That would prevent many of the imposter issues, as it would be pretty obvious. > > Maybe an opt-out to deny the use of current usernames as display names would > be appropriate, but a general ban to reuse a current username > as a display name sounds a bit excessive. > I had written earlier about the reverse, make it an opt-in to allow the use of a username as a displayname by others. Consider another opt-in feature that gets at privacy: ability to map someone. I have to grant that to individuals. That's the way it should be. The default situation should be "I have taken a moment to think about the implications of others using my username, and I trust them, and I am fine with that, so I will make the decision to turn it on". I still have not heard a definitive answer as to what gets logged in IM and Chat. Forget the "display" for a moment. What do you want to have logged as "Michael Schlenker" that you did not write? -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 12:37 PM, David M Chess wrote: > > Daniel Smith : > >>I still have not heard a definitive answer as to what gets logged in >>IM and Chat. >>Forget the "display" for a moment. What do you want to have logged as >>"Michael Schlenker" >>that you did not write? > > Not to be a wet blanket, but anyone can sign their email "David Chess" right > now, or create "david_ch...@foo.nom", or even (if their last name is "Chess" > anyway) *name their children* "David Chess", and there's not a thing I can > do about it. > Yep, I think we all know this. I sent my first email in 1981... The focus here is identity within SL. We work hard to craft our AVs and our reputations. If you want to use your analogy, you would be the only david_ch...@somesluser.com. Now, do you want someone impersonating that? Because that's the sort of thing I am getting at with the displaynames functionality. cheers, Daniel -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?
Following up on myself.. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Daniel Smith wrote: > What will you do to prevent others from using my username as their > displayname? > > And it's not just a display issue. What happens with chat and im logs? Are > they going to only show the displayname? >From the FAQ: * Which name will be used in local, private, and group chats? You will mostly see Display Names but where it makes sense we will also provide the username as well. For example, profiles will show both. Local chat will show the Display Name and you can view a username when clicking on the Display Name. Instant messages will show Display Name and the username in the window title bar. For group chat, Display Name will be seen with the username in the participants list. * Yikes... That is BAD. To me, this means that open chat and IMs are being logged as the DisplayName... It is not clear where UserName is being Logged (I am not talking about Window Titles, I am talking about a Documentation Trail) This has way too much potential for abuse. It means that straight text logs being saved from viewer are representing users via their DisplayName... that, in turn, is often copied/pasted elsewhere. Sure, someone can edit any log after the fact, but to have the Viewer write the file in the first place as DisplayName is a bad move. Please Lindens, tell me I am wrong on this? Daniel -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] display names = the end of 1.x viewers?
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Baloo Uriza wrote: > On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:15:14 -0700, Daniel Smith wrote: > > > I'll ask the Lindens a direct question: > > > > What will you do to prevent others from using my username as their > > displayname? > > I'm going to hazard to guess the answer is "nothing." If anything, this > brings SL into better parity with the real world, where many people might > have the same name. > > Thanks for playing. Just sign up last week? Based on the feedback here and on the blog, so many people are upset about this very question that the Lindens will pretty much have to address the issue. The documentation trail on this is a mile long. If they do nothing, situations will occur that will end up in court. Bet on it. 4 year SL'er, Daniel -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Display names, again.
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 10:01 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) < o...@lindenlab.com> wrote: > Actually, I think that the answers to your questions are clear from > the published material, Lance, but here... > > > 1. Will there be procedures in place to prevent someone else to use my > > true avatar name as their display name? > > No. > > Wrong answer. I think the Lindens are underestimating the legal fallout that will ensue when names are abused. People are stating loud and clear what they want. Are you guys deaf? The reason the discussion is spilling over to this list is because the Lindens are apparently not inclined to do some damage control / pr on the blog. Oz, have you only been in SL for 3 months? I am a former Linden (contractor, 3 months in 2006). I care a lot that LL should succeed. I write because I am frustrated. It's been one misstep after another all these years with LL. What is happening here is a confluence of events that will lead to a mass migration to other grids and other VWs. You have the power to help do the right thing, and a limited window of opportunity to use it. Daniel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Plugins/Modular architecture
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Patnad Babii wrote: > most of the games run only in windows anyways, its 80% of their userbase at > the least. > > Also its not true they can't run on mac and linux as theres mono now that > make it possible. > > > C# would be too slow. It is true that Mono would be the Mac and Linux base for this approach. It would also involve reinventing too many wheels. Please rattle off the names of some graphics intensive multiplayer games/environments based on C#, with stellar frame rates. If you're going to consider any change of direction that would involve C#, the far better route to choose would be the Unity3D engine. That way, you can have a consistent code base across Windows and Mac, and use C#, JavaScript, and Boo for scripting. There would be the huge issue as to how to tie in legacy LSL client side support. A front end done in Unity (with an OpenSim backend) is http://www.reslive.com/ Realistically, the 1.x and 2.x C++ code bases are going to be around for a long time, and much can be done with them. -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] The Plan for Snowglobe
On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) < o...@lindenlab.com> wrote: > > Eventually (and there is _no_ plan for when this will be - certainly > longer than 3 months), it will no longer be possible for us to continue > to support viewers based on the 1.x code base (including our own), and > we'll stop. > > If this is the case, then you need to reconsider your booming Wizard of Oz proclamation of: “Don’t waste everyones time suggesting that we throw away Viewer 2, or that > we revert the UI to Viewer 1. It is absolutely not going to > happen, and any suggestion to that effect will be ignored.” > > from: > http://www.mail-archive.com/opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com/msg02459.html > What you are doing by that, is setting the puzzle pieces together which will result in quite a migration of users (and viewer developers) away from LL. An interesting note is that you have only been at LL (and apparently, in SL) for only 4 months. You are making a decision on something where 90% of the community has much more experience than you. The other interesting note is what Philip just said in an interview: >From the interview with Philip, I see: Mitch Wagner "Fast, Easy, Fun" with Second Life founder Philip Rosedale Viewer 2 also needs to be beefed up for Second Life content creators, who nearly universally criticize the software as a giant step backward from the previous version. "We'll rapidly make the Viewer 2 codebase have the capabilities that everybody wants," Rosedale said. from: http://blogs.computerworld.com/16905/second_life I've been watching LL and using SL almost every day for 4.5 years. The course you are setting in motion will have this effect: - developers will focus on the 1.x codebase, or on Kirsten's 2.x work. They only have so many unpaid cycles to work. They will apply them to where they see the community getting the most benefit. - If LL shuts off 1.x access, and if the viewer does not have 1.x UI features, many in the community will migrate to OpenSim-based grids. - A common viewer code base outside of LL will come into being. Compatibility with SL will become a lower priority item. The other trend is that ultimately, many will realize that it is easier to migrate to a Unity3D foundation, and add SL-specific features to that, than it is to try to meld the 1.x or 2.x codebases into something with that level of quality. Daniel Smith / Bucky Barkley -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Severe water flicker in recent development build
On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Zha Ewry wrote: > This reeks of something we could seriously crowdsource. How hard would it > be to pick a base region, a base set of settings (Draw distance etc) and > have 100 or 200 of us > take turns getting a simple benchmark? set a bar for network (use speakeasy > to measure to a constant place, for example) and as people to boot, run the > client to attach to the > regoin, take a number of measurements and post them to a table in a wiki > page. I am betting we'd learn a lot in a hurry. > > ~ Zha > > > > > Excellent idea. The other thing I am wondering these days is: how come the Unity3d engine is getting much more impressive graphics, at high frames, with very complex scenes, compared to SL? I wish there were a simple way to do an apples to apples comparison of the same scene in SL vs Unity3d. On my 4 year old Intel iMac, the difference is absolutely striking. It's not just the hardware. There's something in the SL graphics pipeline that is a big issue. -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Daniel wrote: > As a user I would like to see an improved cache in order to have a > better Second Life experience. The types > of improvements that would lead to a better experience include: > > * A higher cache size limit. This would let me save more data and speed > up rez times, and also put less > load on the server side, since it would not have to refresh discarded > data as often. Modern hard drives > are much much larger than the current 1 GB limit, and I should be able > to allocate more storage to > my Second Life data if it improves performance. > > Greetings Daniel from Daniel -- It would be good to know from the Lindens as to the negative effect from having a cache size that is too big. I know that there are some diminishing returns with web browsers - they can get to the point where, if the cache is too big, they spend more time tracking down the item than it would take to just go fetch a fresh one. One of the crucial things would be: what is in main memory, relating to on-disk cache? A side effect would be.. the app size in memory gets to the point where the OS starts swapping other things out It's all a balance ;) Would be good to see the Linden guidance on this. Daniel -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache
matches the asset database is an example, but > >>> technical implementation I will leave > >>> to programmers. The desired result is less frequent issues like > >>> apparent inventory loss, which upsets users > >>> and leads to support tickets. > >>> ___ > >>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > >>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > >>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > >>> privileges > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > >> privileges > >> > > ___ > > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Altair Sythos wrote: > On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 10:17:27 -0700 > Daniel Smith wrote: > > > > A passive means of ranking a cache would be: > > > > 1) did the user already have an LM here? > > 2) did an object just give a user an LM to this place? > > 3) did the user just proactively create an LM? > > > > These are 3 distinct cases. #1 and #3 imply that the user has an > > interest in coming back, and is likely to want an ongoing cache. #2 > > implies that a store / venue etc may have given the user an LM they > > didn't want. > > Ram is a lot faster than cache-on-disk, caching on disk may cause more > lag while you force a re-check everytime you see it, > It's all a balance. You dont want to use so much ram that you start swapping to disk and thrashing with other processes. And... you dont want a disk cache so big that it becomes noticeably slow to do lookups. > > Another case is: if a user deletes an LM, it implies they may want > > to free up the cache for that location as well. > > don't understand, cache should store all textures for a whole sims just > why i've bookmarkd a LM? O_o > You cache what is in your draw distance, right? The discussion here, as I understand it, is about a level of preferential or "sticky" cache, based on some explicit or inferred direction from the user. A passive means of inferring what the user wants to preferentially cache is somewhat easy: if they LM it, that means they may be coming back soon, so they would prefer to have the cache of that place stick around. (and, as Oz points out, UUID's that are newer than the previous visit are going to get loaded from the server) And like I said, if you remove an LM, you most likely want to free up cache associated with it... (this is more granular than doing things on a per-sim level). A lot of this can be thought of in terms of the last 15 years of web browsers: if you bookmark a site, chances are you would prefer the cache for that to persist, as opposed to following a link and just quickly skimming a place you wont come back to. Daniel -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm - Product Engine?
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) < o...@lindenlab.com> wrote: > On 2010-09-17 15:38, Brandon Husbands wrote: > > I am actually about finished with my mod for v2. > > > > It takes the sidebar.cpp file and only that file leaves all public > > method calls in. > > But its rewritten to be a floater manager where if you want to call > > say profile it launches it as a floater. > > > > Thus restoring 1x functionality. All thats left to do is add the > > buttons back for them and menu choices. > > From an end user point of view, how does that differ from the current > Development viewer functionality if the user has torn all the panels off > as separate windows? > > > The key word is: "launches" -- i.e. fewer steps to get to the desired display. -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Improved Cache
On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Ponzu wrote: > > True. But there are actually UUID algorithms that accept a very low > probability of repeating a UUID. > LL cant afford to have repeats. It would break a lot. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/UUID -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Externally controllable viewers?
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Dana Moore wrote: > ditto an interest here. > Specifically what we are interested in doing is capturing a human user's > motion via a cam and turning a set of those into avatar controls (e.g., move > left/right/forward, fly, sit). Any useful inputs or comments would help get > us on track. > thanks > ElectricSheep Expedition > Am not sure if you could do this in realtime with one camera (without some sort of wearable tags) Here is my tweet from yesterday about a Siggraph paper on animation based on video keyframes/points: 3d #animation <http://twitter.com/search?q=%23animation> from 2d clips. http://bit.ly/9l5VPP - Their #Siggraph<http://twitter.com/search?q=%23Siggraph>paper: http://bit.ly <http://bit.ly/boe2wp> Mapping this back to SL, this would open a lot of possibilties up for animators. Oh... and an iPhone 4 or new iPod touch might be a good input device!! I just remembered that they now have a built in gyroscrope. There is certainly the API in iOS to send out a realtime stream of user movements... That would get you something you can intrepret as walking, running, turning, sitting, flying... > > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Vex Streeter wrote: > >> Who's currently working on doing external control of viewer functions, >> especially avatar control? I know of a few people doing AR sorts of >> things that would qualify and some of the viewer-plugin and modularity >> work would certainly help. I'm going to be doing some viewer hacking to >> allow some additional input devices and would like to be as general as >> possible (and not reinvent the wheel). >> >> Many thanks >> Vex >> ___ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges >> > > > > -- > Dana > "Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Possibility to revert UI changes on snowstorm?
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Mike Monkowski wrote: > > Small changes cannot fix the 2.x UI. You really have only two > reasonable choices: revert the look and feel back to 1.x or make the UI > completely customizable. > +1 for customization. Yoz has shown a more levelheaded approach to the UI problem than Oz Linden. Both are under LL corporate constraints, to be sure. I see 5 streams of development, going forward: * 1.x TPVs that cherry pick the best bits of V2 features * 2.x TPVs that cherry pick the best bits of V2 features, and in some cases, offer patches to go back into the official 2.x stream * 2.x LL viewer, where developers decide they can work with the process and constraints of LL * exploratory work at developing a viewer with Unity as a foundation * everything else (Ajax, iPhone, Android, etc) I dont think 5 streams are sustainable, but that is where we seem to be at the moment. A customizable UI would do much to circle the 1.x and 2.x development effort wagons. -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] User Story: Inventory Sorting
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Argent Stonecutter wrote: > On 2010-09-21, at 10:48, Zha Ewry wrote: > > As a user I want to be able to sort my inventory with tools which embody > familiar metaphors from Windows, Mac and Linux file browsers. I expect a > folder system which exposes attributes in a familiar fashion and permits > sorting of those attributes in a consistent fashion. I expect folders to be > sorted by date as well as their contents. I expect to be able to leverage my > experience as a computer user and find common metaphors such as sorting > columns implemented in the inventory sorter. I expect to be able to create > deeply nested folder structures and easily find things based on most > recently added, most recently modified, I expect a consistent approach to > displaying nested material throughout the viewer. I expect to be able to > select which details are exposed in an inventory view, and I expect column > sorting implemented in a familiar fashion. > > True Story: In 2006, at a brown bag lunch at LL, I explained to Philip that I really thought we should be able to apply tags to inventory items. It would do a lot to facilitate searching. It's 4 years later and we still cant tag items. My impression at that time is that he didn't think it was worthwhile. -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Third Party Plug-ins?
On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:57 AM, miss c wrote: > Would it be a plausible feature in the future to have the code accept third > party plug-ins instead of creating whole new viewers? > +1 How workable is the 2.x codebase to some sort of modularity, to allow plugins, a la chrome/safari/firefox? The problem with the SL viewer being a huge monolithic client is that it becomes something that does more, on fewer machines, due to memory footprint and increasing resource consumption. If the current codebase isnt workable towards allowing plugins, it may be time to put on the brakes and consider the course. -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Simple thing for snapshots?
On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Talia Tokugawa < talia.tokug...@googlemail.com> wrote: > I was wondering how easy this'd be to achieve. When I take a snapshot to > inventory > Now this is definitely more useful than the original "Snapshot" that was > stored, but I was thinking it would be even more useful to store say the > screen resolution in the description field. > I have long thought we should be able to apply tags to inventory items (I even talked with P about this in 2006..) The automatically applied tags could be Region/Parcel/Position/Time etc. This would make searching a lot easier. And in the case of Photos, yes - the specific resolution info would be great. (in other words, I wouldn't want to see LL just do a specific solution for Photos, and then do something different for Notecards, LMs, etc. The use of Tags would give a general mechanism that would lend itself to interpretation by different types of inventory items.) -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Snowstorm changes (more Lindens fired)
Much of our success in this period can be attributed to the unstinting efforts of Tofu and Aimee, who have really done amazing work in the last few weeks. We at Linden Lab made a corporate decision back in the spring to close down our entire presence in the UK; all UK-based Lindens were affected, with varying timing. This means that Tofu and Aimee will be no longer be Lindens after Thursday. Shakes head. This is pathetic. One wonders when they were told. What should be foremost for the Snowstorm project is to give the developer community a sense of belonging, of a team, and to have ample reason to spend their cycles contributing here. .. Because, after all, there are a variety of venues where a talented dev can contribute to the viewer. LL is not the only game in town, and that is a good thing. In my mind, this is another in a series of roadblocks to success. It leaves a bad taste in the mouths of.. well, I can speak for me.. I wont speak for the community. Another big roadblock is Oz... the guy was only at LL for 3 months before announcing "no 1.x UI" at SLCC. Why is someone with next to no SL experience in such a key role, determining much of the outcome of the viewer? He has next to no history - the community does. It is Tofu and Aimee that should be allowed to work remotely, and it is Oz that should be in a role where his heavy handedness does not become a roadblock to success. The trends are very clear to me. The 1.x and 2.x codebases cannot compete with something like Unity (in 2 years, they would still not be close to where a potential Unity 2.6 foundation would be, if started today). A 3.x codebase with full plugin support from day 1 might have a chance. All roads are leading to OpenSim + Unity client. Tofu and Aimee, thanks for your adept efforts. You will be missed. Daniel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] CAN WE PLEASE STOP VIEWER DEVELOPMENT FOR 5 MINUTES
I agree with Oz on this as well. There are different folks working on the client and server sides. Throwing the client folks over to fix server side problems runs the risk of actually slowing things down. The huge, looming issue on the client side is simply this: evolution. Where could the 2.x viewer be, 2 years from now? Where could a 3.x viewer, with a plugin architecture, be in 2 years? Where could a Unity-based viewer be in 2 years? Without a good plugin architecture, this viewer is going to keep growing. It will become even more of a monolithic piece of code that wont run well on lower end machines. With a good plugin architecture, there is the opportunity for a solid core + customization. Chrome and Firefox come to mind as examples on the web side. Having said all that though, think about this: It is a Sunday. Go look at what Unity 3.x (you can download it for free) is capable of. Can any 2.x codebase get to that level of quality in the next 2 years? I dont think so. Consider what it would take to have a Unity foundation, layered with the SL-specific experience on top. Then think about it the other way (trying to get the existing standard of 2.x to that level of quality, and on all of those platforms). My thought would be: get mesh out there on 2.x viewer, and then put on the brakes and consider direction. Daniel - daniel.org/blog ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Unity 3D as possible base for future (maybe even official) SL Viewers (was: CAN WE PLEASE STOP VIEWER DEVELOPMENT FOR 5 MINUTES)
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Boroondas Gupte wrote: > On 10/03/2010 08:57 PM, Daniel Smith wrote: > > Consider what it would take to have a Unity foundation, layered with > > the SL-specific experience on top. > What it would take? At least Linux support for Unity. > Yep, that came up as a point on my blog, and I answered: > Now, let’s look at the deployment platforms in Unity > 3.0<http://unity3d.com/unity/publishing/>, > which just came out on Monday — all of these will be available soon: > > Mac, Windows, Web, iPhone, Android, Wii, PS3, and Xbox 360 > > I think that’s amazing. Don’t you? Yes, it sucks a little that Linux isn’t > in there. … But… if there is that potential to get a better experience for > 95% of the current users, and to open up a bunch of new platforms to them > and new users, then my gut says that is the right way to go. > Also.. I would think that the current Linux viewer could maintain compatibility. -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Unity 3D as possible base for future (maybe even official) SL Viewers
On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Glen Canaday wrote: > No Linux support is a total deal-breaker for me. > > I never said anything about the Linux viewer going away. I note that we have Pocket Metaverse now, and have had AjaxLife in the past. If it helps at all, I started with BSD Unix in 1981, Linux in 1994 ;) As is the case with web browsers, a VR client to the same server could take many forms. Ultimately, it's about what the community wants, and if a critical mass of developers decides to give them that. It doesn't have to be an official Linden effort at all. All I am saying is, in 2 years time, I cant see the current codebases even getting to the point where Unity 3.0 is today, in terms of graphics, physics, animation, terrain, and sound. But, I could see a pretty decent SL app done in Unity within that amount of time. And, of course, I am just an interested observer. I dont speak for LL, Vivaty, AOL, Autodesk, or anywhere else I have worked :) Daniel -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Unity 3D as possible base / 2.x Codebase plugin capable?
Am happy to see some input on the idea of Unity. It makes me smile. My intent, of course, was to jolt a bit out of idea of a monolithic 2.x codebase. A lot of folks want the viewer to do quite a bit (mesh editor, anyone?). Fulfilling the wishlist without going to a plugin strategy will result in a bloated client that will run on fewer and fewer machines. So if Unity is relegated to a cool TPV project somewhere, that's fine ;) Proposing something radical like that will hopefully get people to think more about what it would take to do a very plugin oriented client (can the 2.x codebase do it? or does it call for a reset of sorts?) Where do people want to see an SL client, 2 years from now? I dont think much of possible approaches that dont handle the physics / animation / terrain / sound angles. It's just asking to reinvent too many wheels. Oh, and as for the objection to Unity outputting to game consoles: snap out of it. The mere existence of code on a console doesn't make it a game. The overall idea is to make SL / OS ubiquitous (Linux client doesnt go away, other approaches open up the Web, phones, and consoles.. all good moves). cheers, Daniel ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Vertex Edit Capability
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Daniel wrote: > I submitted JIRA issue VWR-23202 to provide the simplest in-world > editing capability, that of moving vertexes on a mesh. > > One of the most likely starting points I see is the terrain editor. That is a limited mesh editor in itself. (one of the other Daniels) -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Vertex Edit Capability
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 4:48 AM, Argent Stonecutter wrote: > On 2010-10-05, at 12:58, Daniel Smith wrote: > > One of the most likely starting points I see is the terrain editor. That > is a limited mesh editor in itself. > > That would be... really horrible. The terrain editor only operates on one > axis and is extremely hard to use for any kind of precise work. > > Heh, then it turns out to be 'likely, but not so useful'...Aside from that bit, my gut tells me it may be more useful for the codebase to really support plugins, and then to go from there. Slapping a lot of new functionality on to the current code seems like a recipe for bloat. Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] goodbye snowstorm
In some small way, I've contributed some ideas (but not code) to SnowStorm. I do hope SnowStorm, and the 2.x codebase, prosper and find greater acceptance. However, I am a tech/developer/VW enthusiast, and will be focusing my energy elsewhere. I dont like how Linden Lab is treating the Education and Non-Profit communities (ending their 50% discount). I cannot, in good conscience, contribute to the efforts of a company that treats its customers that way. My efforts will go towards the development of OpenSim, OpenSim grids, Unity, and possibly the 1.x and/or 2.x codebases in the TPV sphere. It may well be that I receive no compensation for those efforts, but I will feel much better about participating in that community. Linden Lab cannot treat customers the way it has, and expect to outsource some of their development efforts for free. Daniel Smith -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Fermi Viewer
Time out! Whoa ;) There are only so many developers in the community. and there are two streams.. 1.x and 2.x ... and neither, as far as I know, is set up well for plugins... one cul de sac of development would be to go off and do plugins, for, say, imprudence, or phoenix, or kirstens or LL would be better all around.. for the community to say .. hold up.. how to merge the best of 1.x and 2.x, and have a uniform plugin model... Someone needs to say the C word: Coordination. ok.. back to it guys and gals ;) Daniel (and I didnt say "Unity" once.. although I really think that's worth exploring) On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Ron Festa wrote: > Visibuild is RealXtend and Naali, not vanilla SL or OpenSIM. Nothing > contributed to that would benefit SL or vanilla OpenSIM especially since > both SL & OS are getting mesh support. > > Ron Festa > Virtual Worlds Admin > Division of Continuing Studies at Rutgers University > PGP key: http://bit.ly/b1ZyhY > Phone: 732-474-8583 > > > > On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 10:51 AM, SuezanneC Baskerville < > sueza...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The "Visibuild" project, at http://visibuild3d.com/, might have some >> bearing on this, possibly. >> >> One might think a viewer and grid that are suposed to be useful for real >> world architecture would have some build tools other than the normal. >> >> It's C++, isn't it, not C? >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Thomas Grimshaw wrote: >> >>> Imprudence is certainly not stable enough for a viewer targeted at >>> builders. >>> >>> ~Tom >>> >>> On 18/10/2010 15:26, Jamey Fletcher wrote: >>> > Marc Adored wrote: >>> > >>> >> Yes that could be awesome like The Fermi Builders Mod for Phoenix or >>> > Imprudence? >>> > ___ >>> > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >>> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >>> privileges >>> >>> ___ >>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >>> privileges >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> v i r t u a l w o r l d e n t h u s i a s t >> -- http://www.google.com/profiles/s u e z a n n e -- >> >> ___ >> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev >> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting >> privileges >> > > > ___ > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting > privileges > -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Fermi Viewer
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 2:29 AM, Argent Stonecutter wrote:
> On 2010-10-18, at 12:08, Daniel Smith wrote:
> > would be better all around.. for the community to say .. hold up.. how to
> merge the best of 1.x and 2.x
>
> We already have that. It's called 1.x.
{ "remarkAnswer" : "hee hee - but it doesnt have the two Ms",
"theMs" : {
"M1": "MOAP",
"M2": "MESH"
},
}
--
Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California
http://daniel.org/resume
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[opensource-dev] Diva Distro + Mono 2.8 + Mac 10.6.4? Login exception...
Getting a login error - Test User authenticates, but then: 20:33:19 - [LLOGIN SERVICE]: Exception processing login for Test User: System.TypeInitializationException: An exception was thrown by the type initializer for OpenSim.Framework.NetworkUtil ---> System.ArgumentException: length Please reference the paste at: http://tinypaste.com/0c26bd Check the error at the bottom of the paste... Trying to run Diva Distro.. I am working on a Mac USB Key .. MacSimStick, but am tripped up by this networking error. Mac OS X 10.6.4 diva-r13981 Mono JIT compiler version 2.8 (tarball Sat Nov 6 19:05:27 PDT 2010) thanks for any leads! Daniel Smith javajo...@gmail.com -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] Diva Distro + Mono 2.8 + Mac 10.6.4? Login exception...
Yikes! Sorry.. wrong list. Shakes head... so many lists named similar things ;) D On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 9:58 PM, Teravus Ovares wrote: > Daniel, > > You might want to send this to [OpenSim-Users] or [OpenSim-dev] instead of > here because it seems like an OpenSimulator specific issue. > > -Teravus > > ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
[opensource-dev] MacSimStick - Alpha Release 1, bring your own Mono
I'm happy to say that I have a snapshot release of MacSimStick available for Mac users: http://bit.ly/dls-mss-a1 I have NOT solved the problem of running Mono locally on a disk image (in this case, /Volumes/MacSimStick). I am deeming it better to get this out to the Mac community now - some can use it as is, and someone much more adept at Mono is likely to tell me where I tripped up. If you are not comfy setting up Mono, and possibly X11, on your own, sit this release out. The intent is to clobber a couple of configuration issues soon and get this polished so that you dont have to even know what Mono is! cheers, Daniel p,s, thanks to Diva, Jon Cundill, Ener Hax, and others for encouragement and pointers. -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
Re: [opensource-dev] SL Browsification
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 6:29 PM, wrote: > Hey, Y'all, > > the mail below is a copy of a msg i got from SL this afternoon. Is it > some kinda sign that the viewer is in danger of going extinct? > > No, it would just be yet another way to get to the same experience. The key audience would be: people who dont want a casual browsing experience without the download/install step. LL is not about to take away the standalone viewer. I did hear a rumour that new usernames created after January 1 can only be made up of vowels and even numbers. Daniel -- Daniel Smith - Sonoma County, California http://daniel.org/resume ___ Policies and (un)subscribe information available here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting privileges
