Re: [opensource-dev] Files deleted by uninstaller don't appear in Recycle Bin

2010-10-27 Thread Argent Stonecutter 
The uninstaller shouldn't remove ANYTHING in the user's profile, period. It's 
not being "unclear" by removing files in the user's profile when it removes 
files in the Program Files directory, it's simply doing the wrong thing. This 
has been an ongoing problem for years, I suspect there's a Jira about it.
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Re: [opensource-dev] [META] User stories and issue tracker readability

2010-10-27 Thread Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) 
  On 2010-10-23 12:25, SuezanneC Baskerville wrote:
>
> Part of the change was to add the words "As a user," to the Summary 
> field.
>
> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-675
>
> They also changed the importance from minor to major.   I suspect 
> these two actions are connected.
>
> I suspect that people are reading instructions that give them the 
> impression that if they want issues to get proper consideration they 
> need to put "As a user" at the beginning of the description field.

It is very helpful to us when scanning lists of issues to be able to see 
whether they are motivated by a user-visible effect or are concerned 
with viewer developers or some other audience.

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Re: [opensource-dev] LGPL violation

2010-10-27 Thread Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence) 
  On 2010-10-23 7:27, Carlo Wood wrote:
> I am not a lawyer :p, but I think that it is allowed to link an LGPL-ed
> library statically against a proprietary executable provided you
> provide the object code or source code of the work that uses the library.

Not correct.  LGPL code may be linked to other source without having the 
viral effect of requiring that other source also be published as open 
source.  LGPL _does_ require that if any changes are made to the source 
under that license, then those changes (and the original sources) must 
be open and available either as LGPL or as GPL.

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Re: [opensource-dev] [META] User stories and issue tracker readability

2010-10-27 Thread Zai Lynch 
>
> It is very helpful to us when scanning lists of issues to be able to see
> whether they are motivated by a user-visible effect or are concerned
> with viewer developers or some other audience.
>

But isn't that what components could be used for?
Affects: Users, UI
Affects: Merchants, i18n
etc.

It would be pretty easy to filter them in that case.

I'm indifferent with it, since I'm not active in the Jira anymore, though I
remember having the exact same issue as Boroondas...

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@ZaiLynch 
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Re: [opensource-dev] LGPL violation

2010-10-27 Thread Malachi 
does this mean that if i move all of my own code over to a dll file that  
is loaded at runtime that i do not have to release the source for it?



On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 10:17:01 -0400, Oz Linden (Scott Lawrence)  
 wrote:

>   On 2010-10-23 7:27, Carlo Wood wrote:
>> I am not a lawyer :p, but I think that it is allowed to link an LGPL-ed
>> library statically against a proprietary executable provided you
>> provide the object code or source code of the work that uses the  
>> library.
>
> Not correct.  LGPL code may be linked to other source without having the
> viral effect of requiring that other source also be published as open
> source.  LGPL _does_ require that if any changes are made to the source
> under that license, then those changes (and the original sources) must
> be open and available either as LGPL or as GPL.
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Files deleted by uninstaller don't appear in Recycle Bin

2010-10-27 Thread Kent Quirk (Q Linden) 
Au contraire. Some people get very upset when an installer leaves any files 
behind that were created by the program automatically, such as log files. It's 
simply not true that the uninstaller shouldn't remove anything in the profile 
-- I have worked at multiple companies where leaving behind any breadcrumbs 
(anything that wasn't created by File Save) after an uninstall was considered a 
major bug.

Now I do think we can try do better; asking about deletion is on the Snowstorm 
backlog. Installers are always tricky and hard to test, and very often the 
uninstaller comes "for free" with writing the installer. It's also specialized, 
platform-specific code, sometimes in a strange language, so it's not easy to 
find devs who want to work on it. 

There's work going on right now that will probably affect this, and we'll make 
sure this is considered.

Q


On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:08 AM, Argent Stonecutter wrote:

> The uninstaller shouldn't remove ANYTHING in the user's profile, period. It's 
> not being "unclear" by removing files in the user's profile when it removes 
> files in the Program Files directory, it's simply doing the wrong thing. This 
> has been an ongoing problem for years, I suspect there's a Jira about it.

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[opensource-dev] Friday Sprint Review Meeting - Canceled

2010-10-27 Thread Sarah (Esbee) Hutchinson 
Just a quick note to let you know I'm canceling the Sprint Review Meeting
scheduled for this Friday at 8am PT.

We didn't introduce a pile of new features this Sprint and have been mostly
focused on stablization and crashers. I've also not made enough progress on
Preferences design and requirements to review that either. (I apologize for
that and will work to get this done as quickly as possible).

We'll do a smaller review at our Sprint Retrospective on Monday.

If you have any questions or comments. Please let me know!

Best,
Esbee
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Re: [opensource-dev] Files deleted by uninstaller don't appear in Recycle Bin

2010-10-27 Thread SuezanneC Baskerville 
Our chat logs are our baby pictures, our precious documents, our financial
records.  They are our love letters, our records of meeting our friends, our
graduation diplomas, our birth certificates,  our immunization records, our
green cards.

For an uninstall program to delete them is a good bit like your camera
software's uninstall program deleting every one of your wedding and baby and
family pictures. That some people might like exhaustively thorough
uninstalls doesn't make that the right thing to do.  People who are so
concerned with a thorough uninstall that they want the stuff they, their
friends, their business contacts and customers  created deleted can delete
it manually, apart from the uninstall program; people whose content is
destroyed permanently by an inaccurately worded uninstall routine have no
recourse.

Regardless of whether the uninstall program does or doesn't delete these
files, there is a separate matter that I am trying to bring to light, namely
the question of whether the files the uninstall program deletes are deleted
in such a fashion that they go into the operating system's "emergency backup
system", which for Windows XP,. is called the recycle bin.

I've made a jira issue about this:
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23594 , "Files deleted by
uninstallation should appear in the Recycle Bin or equivalent".
Please vote for if you like.

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) 
wrote:

> Au contraire. Some people get very upset when an installer leaves any files
> behind that were created by the program automatically, such as log files.
> It's simply not true that the uninstaller shouldn't remove anything in the
> profile -- I have worked at multiple companies where leaving behind any
> breadcrumbs (anything that wasn't created by File Save) after an uninstall
> was considered a major bug.
>
> Now I do think we can try do better; asking about deletion is on the
> Snowstorm backlog. Installers are always tricky and hard to test, and very
> often the uninstaller comes "for free" with writing the installer. It's also
> specialized, platform-specific code, sometimes in a strange language, so
> it's not easy to find devs who want to work on it.
>
> There's work going on right now that will probably affect this, and we'll
> make sure this is considered.
>
>Q
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:08 AM, Argent Stonecutter wrote:
>
> > The uninstaller shouldn't remove ANYTHING in the user's profile, period.
> It's not being "unclear" by removing files in the user's profile when it
> removes files in the Program Files directory, it's simply doing the wrong
> thing. This has been an ongoing problem for years, I suspect there's a Jira
> about it.
>
>


-- 
v i r t u a l   w o r l d   e n t h u s i a s t
-- http://www.google.com/profiles/s u e z a n n e --
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Re: [opensource-dev] Files deleted by uninstaller

2010-10-27 Thread Daniel 
Chat and IM logs are a user preference setting.  If logging is turned 
on, the implication is the user wants the logs, and
that preference should not be overridden without notice.  Also, SL users 
are not working for a company in a business
situation.  It's a social virtual world, and chat logs represent their 
accumulated conversations with people.  Also in some
cases, users are running their *own* business, and chat logs record 
conversations with customers.

Deleting personal or business data without warning is wrong in this 
environment, however much the practice may make sense
in a corporate environment.
> From: "Kent Quirk (Q Linden)"
>
> Au contraire. Some people get very upset when an installer leaves any files 
> behind that were created by the program automatically, such as log files. 
> It's simply not true that the uninstaller shouldn't remove anything in the 
> profile -- I have worked at multiple companies where leaving behind any 
> breadcrumbs (anything that wasn't created by File Save) after an uninstall 
> was considered a major bug.
>

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Re: [opensource-dev] Files deleted by uninstaller don't appear in Recycle Bin

2010-10-27 Thread Da5id Kronfeld 

On 2010-10-27, at 7:45 AM, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) wrote:

> Au contraire. Some people get very upset when an installer leaves any files 
> behind that were created by the program automatically, such as log files. 
> It's simply not true that the uninstaller shouldn't remove anything in the 
> profile -- I have worked at multiple companies where leaving behind any 
> breadcrumbs (anything that wasn't created by File Save) after an uninstall 
> was considered a major bug.

I disagree with this statement. On unix like systems it's standard practice to 
store user specific settings in a file or directory like ~/.thePackage . Just 
because someone removes/replaces/updates the software does not mean that 
*anything* should happen to the contents of that file or directory. It's even 
worse on systems with more than one user. 

I think that it's better to decouple the per-user settings and preferences from 
the package installation entirely. Just my $L0.02.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Files deleted by uninstaller don't appear in Recycle Bin

2010-10-27 Thread Zabb65 
My only concern with some of this, is that it eliminates the support
teams easy one line answer to everything odd or unexplained. Uninstall
and reinstall the client. The reason this works so well is that it
deletes all of the users settings and preferences, which often become
corrupted or contain invalid or bad values from previous versions, and
cause trouble. Log files should not be placed inside a hidden/system
folder to begin with in my opinion, its like treating user created
content as program preferences.

On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 16:18, Da5id Kronfeld  wrote:
>
> On 2010-10-27, at 7:45 AM, Kent Quirk (Q Linden) wrote:
>
>> Au contraire. Some people get very upset when an installer leaves any files 
>> behind that were created by the program automatically, such as log files. 
>> It's simply not true that the uninstaller shouldn't remove anything in the 
>> profile -- I have worked at multiple companies where leaving behind any 
>> breadcrumbs (anything that wasn't created by File Save) after an uninstall 
>> was considered a major bug.
>
> I disagree with this statement. On unix like systems it's standard practice 
> to store user specific settings in a file or directory like ~/.thePackage . 
> Just because someone removes/replaces/updates the software does not mean that 
> *anything* should happen to the contents of that file or directory. It's even 
> worse on systems with more than one user.
>
> I think that it's better to decouple the per-user settings and preferences 
> from the package installation entirely. Just my $L0.02.
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Re: [opensource-dev] LGPL violation

2010-10-27 Thread Sythos 
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 10:38:32 -0400
Malachi  wrote:

> does this mean that if i move all of my own code over to a dll file
> that is loaded at runtime that i do not have to release the source
> for it?

uhm... both no and yes

yu can put in a DLL all the code, LGPL allow you to do, bu you shoudl
release the LGPL part of code (not the piece yours or under other
license), you must release the LGPL code of DLL, not all
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Re: [opensource-dev] LGPL violation

2010-10-27 Thread Sythos 
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 23:38:55 +0200
Altair "Sythos" Memo  wrote:


> yu can put in a DLL all the code, LGPL allow you to do, bu you shoudl
> release the LGPL part of code (not the piece yours or under other
> license), you must release the LGPL code of DLL, not all

please... turn on your typonese translator before read my last email XD
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[opensource-dev] On Live, SL via Cloud Computing

2010-10-27 Thread Stickman 
Had a thought, figured I'd share it in case someone with authority
wanted to explore the topic.

On Live (http://www.onlive.com/) is a cloud computing gaming service.
You open up the client and their computers run the game and graphics
and stream the video to you while accepting your controls. It means
you can run games on systems that otherwise wouldn't run them.

Pros:
-Less powerful computers can run SL on high settings
-Collaboration could result in cached or close asset data for super
fast object and texture loading

Cons:
-$5/month subscription fee per user (Premium option?)
-Requires high bandwidth (3mbit) connection
-Probably consumes more bandwidth than SL itself would

The big turn off for On Live to me is a monthly fee combined with full
price video games combined with "don't pay for a year, we delete your
account including your purchase record." But those cons wouldn't apply
when dealing with Second Life through this medium.

Just throwing that out there.

Stickman
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