[opensource-dev] impending lawsuit?

[Lance Corrimal]

Hey all,

just got this notecard inworld:

"Hello.

You are reading this because you were listed in a lawsuit by Belial Foulsbane 
and Scarlett Vielle.   
Somehow you are a victim of his False DMCA claims, and his ongoing effort to 
manipulate LL into killing off his competition for the "Emerald Speed Rez".

If you would like to join the defendants against this paperwork-greifer in a 
counter lawsuit please contact me with your SL name and anything else at 
prime...@gmail.com

Do not be scared
1)  Scarlett Vielle claimed that they automaticly had a protected copyright 
from the moment they made anything.
(The US copyright office is not aware of every creation in SL, does not issue 
free copyrights, and does not issue anything without a proper filing)

2)  There is no copyright registered in the united states:
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First

3)  Linden Labs cannot be sued.  Yet he filed against them.

4) The judges signature on his legal papers he faxed to LL is blank.

5)  He cannot copyright the word "Emerald" for the same reason he cannot 
copyright the word "SecondLife" or "Microsoft".

He is a paperwork bully filing false DMCA claims as you know.

If you have any ideas to stop this madman, do please share them.
Lets create a group and fight him off shall we?

zFire"


... is that guy out of his mind?

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Re: [opensource-dev] impending lawsuit?

[Jonathan Irvin]

Lance, hey just FYI man...This is something you want to contact Linden Labs
directly about, not post it to this mailing list.

That being said, let me share with you a piece of wisdom from being in SL
for 5 years.  When you've seen it once, you've seen it a million times.
 People just like to target LL for random reasons, mostly because they got
their feelings hurt and want to "take their toys and stomp home to mommy and
daddy". Don't worry about that notecard.  It's probably just random spam
trying to raise awareness for another pointless cause in Second Life and
also to cloud your group allocation.  If they really wanted to, they'd just
add you to a Hippo Group.  :)  People love making "I'm pissed at Linden Labs
so I'm going to make a group in Second Life and use Second Life to flame
about it" groups.

Also, rest assured, this won't leave Second Life.  It's not like your
virtual presence can be given a subpoena .

Jonathan Irvin
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Re: [opensource-dev] impending lawsuit?

[Tateru Nino]

I'm aware of the speed-rez stuff, because it's been discussed numerous
times over the last five years. The earliest mention I can recall off
the top of my head is a suggestion from Phoenix back in early 06.

I've already read the complaint and docs and I'm working on an article
on it.

On 14/04/2010 6:28 PM, Lance Corrimal wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> just got this notecard inworld:
>
> "Hello.
>
> You are reading this because you were listed in a lawsuit by Belial Foulsbane 
> and Scarlett Vielle.   
> Somehow you are a victim of his False DMCA claims, and his ongoing effort to 
> manipulate LL into killing off his competition for the "Emerald Speed Rez".
>
> If you would like to join the defendants against this paperwork-greifer in a 
> counter lawsuit please contact me with your SL name and anything else at 
> prime...@gmail.com
>
> Do not be scared
> 1)  Scarlett Vielle claimed that they automaticly had a protected copyright 
> from the moment they made anything.
> (The US copyright office is not aware of every creation in SL, does not issue 
> free copyrights, and does not issue anything without a proper filing)
>
> 2)  There is no copyright registered in the united states:
> http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First
>
> 3)  Linden Labs cannot be sued.  Yet he filed against them.
>
> 4) The judges signature on his legal papers he faxed to LL is blank.
>
> 5)  He cannot copyright the word "Emerald" for the same reason he cannot 
> copyright the word "SecondLife" or "Microsoft".
>
> He is a paperwork bully filing false DMCA claims as you know.
>
> If you have any ideas to stop this madman, do please share them.
> Lets create a group and fight him off shall we?
>
> zFire"
>
>
> ... is that guy out of his mind?
>
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>
>   

-- 
Tateru Nino
http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/

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Re: [opensource-dev] Viewers in the directory are being impersonated already

[Anders Arnholm]

On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 02:30:24PM -0400, Robert Martin wrote:
> Dusting off an old statement
> 
> The 3PVp will be a semi joke until LL decides to put up a compile farm
> and begin creating "signed builds". Even not using proxies and other
> cloaking all somebody has to do is get the source for a listed viewer
> and then hack and recompile.

There is still no way a server on the internet can know what is running
on the other end. The only into a build farm can add is the same as
someone sign the build to tell the user it's matching a source code
version.

It's can however never protect the servers from any kind ofg hacked
viewers with extra functions as save all to disk, overlaod others
viewers. etc.

-- 
  o_   Anders Arnholm,
 o/  /\and...@arnholm.se
/|_, \\http://anders.arnholm.se/
/
`

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

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Re: [opensource-dev] impending lawsuit?

[Carlo Wood]

This guy really filed a lawsuit.

Such people exist, ... one of the reasons I REALLY don't want to work
on a SL viewer when there is a TOS that says I'm responsible and
liable for any damages done as a result of using that viewer.

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:28:55AM +0200, Lance Corrimal wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> just got this notecard inworld:
> 
> "Hello.
> 
> You are reading this because you were listed in a lawsuit by Belial Foulsbane 
> and Scarlett Vielle.   
> Somehow you are a victim of his False DMCA claims, and his ongoing effort to 
> manipulate LL into killing off his competition for the "Emerald Speed Rez".
> 
> If you would like to join the defendants against this paperwork-greifer in a 
> counter lawsuit please contact me with your SL name and anything else at 
> prime...@gmail.com
> 
> Do not be scared
> 1)  Scarlett Vielle claimed that they automaticly had a protected copyright 
> from the moment they made anything.
> (The US copyright office is not aware of every creation in SL, does not issue 
> free copyrights, and does not issue anything without a proper filing)
> 
> 2)  There is no copyright registered in the united states:
> http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First
> 
> 3)  Linden Labs cannot be sued.  Yet he filed against them.
> 
> 4) The judges signature on his legal papers he faxed to LL is blank.
> 
> 5)  He cannot copyright the word "Emerald" for the same reason he cannot 
> copyright the word "SecondLife" or "Microsoft".
> 
> He is a paperwork bully filing false DMCA claims as you know.
> 
> If you have any ideas to stop this madman, do please share them.
> Lets create a group and fight him off shall we?
> 
> zFire"
> 
> 
> ... is that guy out of his mind?
> 
> ___
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-- 
Carlo Wood 
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Re: [opensource-dev] impending lawsuit?

[Ambrosia]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 14:00, Carlo Wood  wrote:
> This guy really filed a lawsuit.
>
> Such people exist, ... one of the reasons I REALLY don't want to work
> on a SL viewer when there is a TOS that says I'm responsible and
> liable for any damages done as a result of using that viewer.
>

The lawsuit in question isn't about him going against Emerald. The
Emerald Speed Rezzer is a set of gestures that change the draw
distance in Emerald in steps for more ordered rezzing, hence the
'Emerald' part in the name.

He's supposedly going after rival products.

--Chalice Yao
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Re: [opensource-dev] impending lawsuit?

[Lance Corrimal]

Am Mittwoch, 14. April 2010 14:39:26 schrieb Ambrosia:
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 14:00, Carlo Wood  wrote:
> > This guy really filed a lawsuit.
> > 
> > Such people exist, ... one of the reasons I REALLY don't want to work
> > on a SL viewer when there is a TOS that says I'm responsible and
> > liable for any damages done as a result of using that viewer.
> 
> The lawsuit in question isn't about him going against Emerald. The
> Emerald Speed Rezzer is a set of gestures that change the draw
> distance in Emerald in steps for more ordered rezzing, hence the
> 'Emerald' part in the name.
> 
> He's supposedly going after rival products.

I don't really see the "rival product" in my case.
I don't even HAVE any product that would rival his "speed rezzer gesture" at 
all.

and what henri has is the same feature in a different implementation (100% 
viewer internally), so it's not as if you could use emerald and something sold 
or given away for free by henri INSTEAD of this guys script.


> 
> --Chalice Yao

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Re: [opensource-dev] impending lawsuit?

[Robert Martin]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Ambrosia  wrote:

> He's supposedly going after rival products.
>
and the big problem is how he is defining "rival products" hes
claiming copyright on any gesture In the form of

dd 0
wait 1
dd 4
wait 1
dd 8
wait 1
..
dd 64 (or whatever the set normal draw distance is)

while i give him credit for figuring out some sort of optimal set of
steps and pauses
THIS IS NOT WORTH ANY KIND OF MONEY (since its sort of the whole point
of the command in question)


-- 
Robert L Martin
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[opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list

[Jonathan Irvin]

To Whom It May Concern:

I'm requesting Linden Lab's response to this inquiry due to the recent
influx of new topic related...or should I say unrelated to the development
of the SnowGlobe viewer.  Lately, when I open my email, I get 5-10 different
topics and responses daily to the recent changes for the Third Party Viewer
policy and I feel that this is not related to SnowGlobe or related
development at all.

To "clear the pipes", can we please move these discussions to a different
forum or list so valid OpenSource development questions are not lost in the
flames, complaints, and discussions related to this specific topic?

I do not feel it is valid in this forum to talk about which Third-Party
Viewers in the directory were already impersonated or which part of the
third party viewer policy they do not like.

Linden Labs, if you can please isolate this to another forum, I bet those
who are truly interested in the opensource development of the Second Life
viewer would be more in tuned to staying here rather than wake up to read
yet another unproductive "I hate LL and the TPVP lets get together and share
our misery post".

Respectfully & Best Regards,

Jonathan Irvin
SL Resident of 5 Years.
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Re: [opensource-dev] impending lawsuit?

[Ambrosia]

> and what henri has is the same feature in a different implementation (100%
> viewer internally), so it's not as if you could use emerald and something sold
> or given away for free by henri INSTEAD of this guys script.

> THIS IS NOT WORTH ANY KIND OF MONEY (since its sort of the whole point
> of the command in question)

I was just clarifying that he's not going after Emerald, in regards to
the comment about the viewer TPV/TOS. :3 That is all. Aside of that, I
won't make a comment about the product or steps being taken.

--Chalice Yao
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Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list

[Dzonatas Sol]

+1

I  already trashed a few attempts to write an e-mail to try to say what 
you have.

Jonathan Irvin wrote:
> To Whom It May Concern:
>
> I'm requesting Linden Lab's response to this inquiry due to the recent 
> influx of new topic related...or should I say unrelated to the 
> development of the SnowGlobe viewer.  Lately, when I open my email, I 
> get 5-10 different topics and responses daily to the recent changes 
> for the Third Party Viewer policy and I feel that this is not related 
> to SnowGlobe or related development at all.
>
> To "clear the pipes", can we please move these discussions to a 
> different forum or list so valid OpenSource development questions are 
> not lost in the flames, complaints, and discussions related to this 
> specific topic?
>
> I do not feel it is valid in this forum to talk about which 
> Third-Party Viewers in the directory were already impersonated or 
> which part of the third party viewer policy they do not like.
>
> Linden Labs, if you can please isolate this to another forum, I bet 
> those who are truly interested in the opensource development of the 
> Second Life viewer would be more in tuned to staying here rather than 
> wake up to read yet another unproductive "I hate LL and the TPVP lets 
> get together and share our misery post".
>
> Respectfully & Best Regards,
>
> Jonathan Irvin
> SL Resident of 5 Years.
> 
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list

[Ron Festa]

I feel your frustration, however, this is the *opensource-dev* mailing list
*not* the *snowglobe-dev* mailing list. Both SnowGlobe and TPV's are open
source viewers based on Linden Lab's mainline viewer the only difference is
Snowglobe is distributed by LL. Discussion on policies that effect open
source development should be encouraged. If you only want to see stuff
relating to SnowGlobe then either encourage LL create a snowglobe-dev list
or configure your mail filters to only allow email related to snowglobe to
enter your inbox from this list.

Ron Festa
Virtual Worlds Admin
Division of Continuing Studies at Rutgers University
PGP key: http://bit.ly/b1ZyhY
Phone: 732-474-8583


On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Jonathan Irvin wrote:

> To Whom It May Concern:
>
> I'm requesting Linden Lab's response to this inquiry due to the recent
> influx of new topic related...or should I say unrelated to the development
> of the SnowGlobe viewer.  Lately, when I open my email, I get 5-10 different
> topics and responses daily to the recent changes for the Third Party Viewer
> policy and I feel that this is not related to SnowGlobe or related
> development at all.
>
> To "clear the pipes", can we please move these discussions to a different
> forum or list so valid OpenSource development questions are not lost in the
> flames, complaints, and discussions related to this specific topic?
>
> I do not feel it is valid in this forum to talk about which Third-Party
> Viewers in the directory were already impersonated or which part of the
> third party viewer policy they do not like.
>
> Linden Labs, if you can please isolate this to another forum, I bet those
> who are truly interested in the opensource development of the Second Life
> viewer would be more in tuned to staying here rather than wake up to read
> yet another unproductive "I hate LL and the TPVP lets get together and share
> our misery post".
>
> Respectfully & Best Regards,
>
> Jonathan Irvin
> SL Resident of 5 Years.
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] impending lawsuit?

[Gareth Nelson]

I think the point was that SL has a lot of users with trigger-happy lawyers

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Ambrosia  wrote:
>> and what henri has is the same feature in a different implementation (100%
>> viewer internally), so it's not as if you could use emerald and something 
>> sold
>> or given away for free by henri INSTEAD of this guys script.
>
>> THIS IS NOT WORTH ANY KIND OF MONEY (since its sort of the whole point
>> of the command in question)
>
> I was just clarifying that he's not going after Emerald, in regards to
> the comment about the viewer TPV/TOS. :3 That is all. Aside of that, I
> won't make a comment about the product or steps being taken.
>
> --Chalice Yao
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-- 
“Lanie, I’m going to print more printers. Lots more printers. One for
everyone. That’s worth going to jail for. That’s worth anything.” -
Printcrime by Cory Doctrow

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
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Re: [opensource-dev] impending lawsuit?

[Lance Corrimal]

the guy can kiss his "product" good bye anyways:
http://is.gd/bsmy5

next emerald release diasables that "speedrezzing hack", so all he gets from 
his dmca spoof is loads of abuse reports for selling defective products.


Am Mittwoch, 14. April 2010 15:31:11 schrieb Gareth Nelson:
> I think the point was that SL has a lot of users with trigger-happy lawyers
> 
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Ambrosia  wrote:
> >> and what henri has is the same feature in a different implementation
> >> (100% viewer internally), so it's not as if you could use emerald and
> >> something sold or given away for free by henri INSTEAD of this guys
> >> script.
> >> 
> >> THIS IS NOT WORTH ANY KIND OF MONEY (since its sort of the whole point
> >> of the command in question)
> > 
> > I was just clarifying that he's not going after Emerald, in regards to
> > the comment about the viewer TPV/TOS. :3 That is all. Aside of that, I
> > won't make a comment about the product or steps being taken.
> > 
> > --Chalice Yao
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Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list

[Dale Glass]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 07:52:02AM -0500, Jonathan Irvin wrote:
> To Whom It May Concern:
> 
> I'm requesting Linden Lab's response to this inquiry due to the recent
> influx of new topic related...or should I say unrelated to the development
> of the SnowGlobe viewer.  Lately, when I open my email, I get 5-10 different
> topics and responses daily to the recent changes for the Third Party Viewer
> policy and I feel that this is not related to SnowGlobe or related
> development at all.
Believe me, I'd much prefer to talk about something else.

But this issue makes it difficult for me to continue development. I believe
it is appropiate to discuss things that impede development on the development
mailing list.

> To "clear the pipes", can we please move these discussions to a different
> forum or list so valid OpenSource development questions are not lost in the
> flames, complaints, and discussions related to this specific topic?
That is fine with me, so long LL's presence on that list is assured.


> I do not feel it is valid in this forum to talk about which Third-Party
> Viewers in the directory were already impersonated or which part of the
> third party viewer policy they do not like.
I disagree. I believe development issues belong in the development list,
and since this issue threatens my development efforts I bring it to the
best place I know for it.

(note: I may not have been posting lately, but I do have work in progress)

> 
> Linden Labs, if you can please isolate this to another forum, I bet those
> who are truly interested in the opensource development of the Second Life
> viewer would be more in tuned to staying here rather than wake up to read
> yet another unproductive "I hate LL and the TPVP lets get together and share
> our misery post".
I disagree yet again. I feel it actually *has* been productive, if only 
because Joe decided the unresolved issues warranted a conference yesterday
and another next tuesday.

For me it's not about "sharing misery", it's about getting a reaction and
answers from LL. And for that purpose I bring up things that I consider
relevant.

I thought the impersonation post was relevant because LL's response to
such things is important, and one of the things that will determine whether
SL development remains safe enough for me to get involved with, or not.

> 
> Respectfully & Best Regards,
> 
> Jonathan Irvin
> SL Resident of 5 Years.

Regards,

Dale Glass
SL Resident of 4 Years
Viewer and bot developer

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Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list

[Robin Cornelius]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Ron Festa  wrote:
> I feel your frustration, however, this is the opensource-dev mailing list
> not the snowglobe-dev mailing list. Both SnowGlobe and TPV's are open source
> viewers based on Linden Lab's mainline viewer the only difference is
> Snowglobe is distributed by LL. Discussion on policies that effect open
> source development should be encouraged. If you only want to see stuff
> relating to SnowGlobe then either encourage LL create a snowglobe-dev list
> or configure your mail filters to only allow email related to snowglobe to
> enter your inbox from this list.


I agree, very important topics have been banging around here recently
that effect all opensource work with the Linden Labs code and
secondlife itsself, that said is there a call for a seperate
snowglobe-dev list? I certainly don't want to see this list change
much and it should stay a general opensource/secondlife type list but
it may be worth a list to focus specificly on snowglobe only topics?

Robin
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Re: [opensource-dev] Ironpython (was: Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list)

[Dzonatas Sol]

Compare this list to here: 
http://lists.ironpython.com/pipermail/users-ironpython.com
Although stated as a combined user/dev list and open to related DLR/CLR 
discussion...: http://lists.ironpython.com/listinfo.cgi/users-ironpython.com

... the signal to noise, on that mail-list, remains much more on the 
signal side, and it commonly gets more unmoderated traffic than this 
opensource-dev list.


And yes, I brought up ironpython with a shameless plug that Ironpython 
2.6 is almost in Debian stable. If anyone has done AST & resource 
compiles with ironpython probably has hacked their compile to include 
the entire standard python lib into a single exe, which makes it very 
easily shippable product with no install complexity for platforms that 
support Mono/.NET.

It would be nice if something like CMake was written in a DLR instead of 
native, so then any updates to CMake wouldn't need to wait to move out 
of the experimental cycles of the platforms in order to compile to 
stable (like Debian Lenny, for example).

Also note the potential pluggability of IL/DLR...



Ron Festa wrote:
> I feel your frustration, however, this is the /*opensource-dev*/ 
> mailing list *not* the /*snowglobe-dev*/ mailing list. Both SnowGlobe 
> and TPV's are open source viewers based on Linden Lab's mainline 
> viewer the only difference is Snowglobe is distributed by LL. 
> Discussion on policies that effect open source development should be 
> encouraged. If you only want to see stuff relating to SnowGlobe then 
> either encourage LL create a snowglobe-dev list or configure your mail 
> filters to only allow email related to snowglobe to enter your inbox 
> from this list.
>
> Ron Festa
> Virtual Worlds Admin
> Division of Continuing Studies at Rutgers University
> PGP key: http://bit.ly/b1ZyhY
> Phone: 732-474-8583
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Jonathan Irvin  > wrote:
>
> To Whom It May Concern:
>
> I'm requesting Linden Lab's response to this inquiry due to the
> recent influx of new topic related...or should I say unrelated to
> the development of the SnowGlobe viewer.� Lately, when I open my
> email, I get 5-10 different topics and responses daily to the
> recent changes for the Third Party Viewer policy and I feel that
> this is not related to SnowGlobe or related development at all.
>
> To "clear the pipes", can we please move these discussions to a
> different forum or list so valid OpenSource development questions
> are not lost in the flames, complaints, and discussions related to
> this specific topic?
>
> I do not feel it is valid in this forum to talk about which
> Third-Party Viewers in the directory were already impersonated or
> which part of the third party viewer policy they do not like.
>
> Linden Labs, if you can please isolate this to another forum, I
> bet those who are truly interested in the opensource development
> of the Second Life viewer would be more in tuned to staying here
> rather than wake up to read yet another unproductive "I hate LL
> and the TPVP lets get together and share our misery post".
>
> Respectfully & Best Regards,
>
> Jonathan Irvin
> SL Resident of 5 Years.
>
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> 
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] impending lawsuit?

[Soft Linden]

I don't know the details on this, however it's definitely off topic
for this list.


On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:28 AM, Lance Corrimal
 wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> just got this notecard inworld:
>
> "Hello.
>
> You are reading this because you were listed in a lawsuit by Belial Foulsbane
> and Scarlett Vielle.
> Somehow you are a victim of his False DMCA claims, and his ongoing effort to
> manipulate LL into killing off his competition for the "Emerald Speed Rez".
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Re: [opensource-dev] impending lawsuit?

[Jamey Fletcher]

Lance Corrimal wrote:

> ... is that guy out of his mind?

Yes.  See notes below.

> You are reading this because you were listed in a lawsuit by Belial 
> Foulsbane and Scarlett Vielle. Somehow you are a victim of his False 
> DMCA claims, and his ongoing effort to manipulate LL into killing off
>  his competition for the "Emerald Speed Rez".

There was discussion of this "Emerald Speed Rez" at one of the previous
Emerald Office Hours - as the same effect can be implemented with a
short series of chats (short enough, quite a few don't bother putting it
in as a gesture), it's highly unlikely he's actually doing anything of
note.  I believe the Emerald Devs said they weren't going to include a
feature of that nature to automatically take effect after teleports, as
it actually increases the load on the server by a fair amount.

> If you would like to join the defendants against this 
> paperwork-greifer in a counter lawsuit please contact me with your SL
>  name and anything else at prime...@gmail.com

> Do not be scared

This is certainly true enough.

> 1)  Scarlett Vielle claimed that they automaticly had a protected 
> copyright from the moment they made anything. (The US copyright 
> office is not aware of every creation in SL, does not issue free 
> copyrights, and does not issue anything without a proper filing)

> 2)  There is no copyright registered in the united states: 
> http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First

In fact, copyright of a work does take place at creation, and does not
require filing with the Library of Congress.  However, to be awarded
punitive damages in a lawsuit, said filing must take place - but actual
damages may still be asked for.  Just that actual damages is far harder
to prove.  IANAL, but this has been hashed out in the broader computer
community for some time.

> 3)  Linden Labs cannot be sued.  Yet he filed against them.

Linden Labs can in fact be sued.  Nothing stops that.  Only governments 
can claim sovereign immunity from courts that are under their authority. 
  Ergo, the US Government must consent to be sued in federal, state or 
local courts, states may be sued in the Federal Courts, but must consent 
to being sued in their state courts, or in subsidiary local courts.  And 
so forth.  Again, IANAL, if it's really important, contact your own 
legal advisor.

> 4) The judges signature on his legal papers he faxed to LL is blank.

This may simply be that these are copies of his copies - the controlling 
paperwork would be the original copies actually on file with the 
appropriate court.  However, it does sound rather bogus.

> 5)  He cannot copyright the word "Emerald" for the same reason he 
> cannot copyright the word "SecondLife" or "Microsoft".

Correct - copyright does not apply to single words.  Trademarks *can*, 
however, the Emerald Devs would have a much better claim.  It would be 
rather funny, if he did in fact get a trademark on Emerald, since the 
Emerald viewer would need to get a new name, which would lead to his 
"Emerald Speed Rez" not having an Emerald viewer to work in!

> He is a paperwork bully filing false DMCA claims as you know.

At least he learned it from the Big Guys, like the MPAA and the RIAA. 
This is why the DMCA is so bogus.

> If you have any ideas to stop this madman, do please share them. Lets
>  create a group and fight him off shall we?

I'd say just ignore it - the bogosity is so strong, it'll collapse into 
a black bogosphere from which no sanity can escape.
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Re: [opensource-dev] impending lawsuit?

[Lear Cale]

FYI, Whoever wrote this is ignorant of US copyright and trademark law.
 In the US (and most countries), you have an implicit copyright
whenver you render an original work in any fixed medium.  I.e., if you
sing a song you made up, no implicit copyright, but if you record it
or write it down, you do get one.  "Work" here means "work of an
author".

A copyright does not have to be registered to be valid.  It does have
to be registered to file suit; failure to register before publication
means you can still collect damages but not "statutory damages and
attorneys' fees".

If subsequent posts are correct for what this is about, copyrights
don't apply anyway.

Also, you can't copyright a name.  You use trademarks to protect a name.

So just be warned that there's a lot of bullshit going on here, on
both sides of the fence.

IANAL but I do know a little about copyright law.  You can verify
these facts at http://www.copyright.gov .

Jeff

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:28 AM, Lance Corrimal
 wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> just got this notecard inworld:
>
> "Hello.
>
> You are reading this because you were listed in a lawsuit by Belial Foulsbane
> and Scarlett Vielle.
> Somehow you are a victim of his False DMCA claims, and his ongoing effort to
> manipulate LL into killing off his competition for the "Emerald Speed Rez".
>
> If you would like to join the defendants against this paperwork-greifer in a
> counter lawsuit please contact me with your SL name and anything else at
> prime...@gmail.com
>
> Do not be scared
> 1)  Scarlett Vielle claimed that they automaticly had a protected copyright
> from the moment they made anything.
> (The US copyright office is not aware of every creation in SL, does not issue
> free copyrights, and does not issue anything without a proper filing)
>
> 2)  There is no copyright registered in the united states:
> http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First
>
> 3)  Linden Labs cannot be sued.  Yet he filed against them.
>
> 4) The judges signature on his legal papers he faxed to LL is blank.
>
> 5)  He cannot copyright the word "Emerald" for the same reason he cannot
> copyright the word "SecondLife" or "Microsoft".
>
> He is a paperwork bully filing false DMCA claims as you know.
>
> If you have any ideas to stop this madman, do please share them.
> Lets create a group and fight him off shall we?
>
> zFire"
>
>
> ... is that guy out of his mind?
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] impending lawsuit?

[Lear Cale]

Another point: A copyright means you can't copy the work.  You are
allowed to come up with the same idea yourself and arrive at a simiar
result.  It requires a patent to protect against that.

Furthermore, DMCA applies only when the original work is *digitally*
copied.  It does *NOT* apply to a forger painting a duplicate of
someone else's work.  That falls under normal copyright law.  If you
didn't bypass copyright protection mechanisms to duplicate the
original, it's not a DMCA violation.  LL may use received DMCA filings
for purposes other than the intent of DMCA, though -- that's their
issue.

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Lear Cale  wrote:
> FYI, Whoever wrote this is ignorant of US copyright and trademark law.
>  In the US (and most countries), you have an implicit copyright
> whenver you render an original work in any fixed medium.  I.e., if you
> sing a song you made up, no implicit copyright, but if you record it
> or write it down, you do get one.  "Work" here means "work of an
> author".
>
> A copyright does not have to be registered to be valid.  It does have
> to be registered to file suit; failure to register before publication
> means you can still collect damages but not "statutory damages and
> attorneys' fees".
>
> If subsequent posts are correct for what this is about, copyrights
> don't apply anyway.
>
> Also, you can't copyright a name.  You use trademarks to protect a name.
>
> So just be warned that there's a lot of bullshit going on here, on
> both sides of the fence.
>
> IANAL but I do know a little about copyright law.  You can verify
> these facts at http://www.copyright.gov .
>
> Jeff
>
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:28 AM, Lance Corrimal
>  wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> just got this notecard inworld:
>>
>> "Hello.
>>
>> You are reading this because you were listed in a lawsuit by Belial Foulsbane
>> and Scarlett Vielle.
>> Somehow you are a victim of his False DMCA claims, and his ongoing effort to
>> manipulate LL into killing off his competition for the "Emerald Speed Rez".
>>
>> If you would like to join the defendants against this paperwork-greifer in a
>> counter lawsuit please contact me with your SL name and anything else at
>> prime...@gmail.com
>>
>> Do not be scared
>> 1)  Scarlett Vielle claimed that they automaticly had a protected copyright
>> from the moment they made anything.
>> (The US copyright office is not aware of every creation in SL, does not issue
>> free copyrights, and does not issue anything without a proper filing)
>>
>> 2)  There is no copyright registered in the united states:
>> http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First
>>
>> 3)  Linden Labs cannot be sued.  Yet he filed against them.
>>
>> 4) The judges signature on his legal papers he faxed to LL is blank.
>>
>> 5)  He cannot copyright the word "Emerald" for the same reason he cannot
>> copyright the word "SecondLife" or "Microsoft".
>>
>> He is a paperwork bully filing false DMCA claims as you know.
>>
>> If you have any ideas to stop this madman, do please share them.
>> Lets create a group and fight him off shall we?
>>
>> zFire"
>>
>>
>> ... is that guy out of his mind?
>>
>> ___
>> Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
>> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
>> Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting 
>> privileges
>>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list

[Rob Nelson]

It's already reached a point where LL has told us, to our faces, that
they are not going to change the policy, meaning our opinion doesn't
mean diddly to them.  There's no use continuing to discussion, just as
there's no use continuing TPV development.


On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 07:52 -0500, Jonathan Irvin wrote:
> To Whom It May Concern:
> 
> I'm requesting Linden Lab's response to this inquiry due to the recent
> influx of new topic related...or should I say unrelated to the
> development of the SnowGlobe viewer.  Lately, when I open my email, I
> get 5-10 different topics and responses daily to the recent changes
> for the Third Party Viewer policy and I feel that this is not related
> to SnowGlobe or related development at all.
> 
> To "clear the pipes", can we please move these discussions to a
> different forum or list so valid OpenSource development questions are
> not lost in the flames, complaints, and discussions related to this
> specific topic?
> 
> I do not feel it is valid in this forum to talk about which
> Third-Party Viewers in the directory were already impersonated or
> which part of the third party viewer policy they do not like.
> 
> Linden Labs, if you can please isolate this to another forum, I bet
> those who are truly interested in the opensource development of the
> Second Life viewer would be more in tuned to staying here rather than
> wake up to read yet another unproductive "I hate LL and the TPVP lets
> get together and share our misery post".
> 
> Respectfully & Best Regards,
> 
> Jonathan Irvin
> SL Resident of 5 Years.
> ___
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Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list

[Joe Linden]

Rob,

I take it you weren't at the meeting yesterday?

-- Joe

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Rob Nelson wrote:

> It's already reached a point where LL has told us, to our faces, that
> they are not going to change the policy, meaning our opinion doesn't
> mean diddly to them.  There's no use continuing to discussion, just as
> there's no use continuing TPV development.
>
>
> On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 07:52 -0500, Jonathan Irvin wrote:
> > To Whom It May Concern:
> >
> > I'm requesting Linden Lab's response to this inquiry due to the recent
> > influx of new topic related...or should I say unrelated to the
> > development of the SnowGlobe viewer.  Lately, when I open my email, I
> > get 5-10 different topics and responses daily to the recent changes
> > for the Third Party Viewer policy and I feel that this is not related
> > to SnowGlobe or related development at all.
> >
> > To "clear the pipes", can we please move these discussions to a
> > different forum or list so valid OpenSource development questions are
> > not lost in the flames, complaints, and discussions related to this
> > specific topic?
> >
> > I do not feel it is valid in this forum to talk about which
> > Third-Party Viewers in the directory were already impersonated or
> > which part of the third party viewer policy they do not like.
> >
> > Linden Labs, if you can please isolate this to another forum, I bet
> > those who are truly interested in the opensource development of the
> > Second Life viewer would be more in tuned to staying here rather than
> > wake up to read yet another unproductive "I hate LL and the TPVP lets
> > get together and share our misery post".
> >
> > Respectfully & Best Regards,
> >
> > Jonathan Irvin
> > SL Resident of 5 Years.
> > ___
> > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated posting
> privileges
>
>
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Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list

[Rob Nelson]

Yes, I begin sleep at 6:00AM and frequently sleep until 2:30PM.

On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 09:27 -0700, Joe Linden wrote:
> Rob,
> 
> I take it you weren't at the meeting yesterday?
> 
> -- Joe
> 
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Rob Nelson
>  wrote:
> It's already reached a point where LL has told us, to our
> faces, that
> they are not going to change the policy, meaning our opinion
> doesn't
> mean diddly to them.  There's no use continuing to discussion,
> just as
> there's no use continuing TPV development.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 07:52 -0500, Jonathan Irvin wrote:
> > To Whom It May Concern:
> >
> > I'm requesting Linden Lab's response to this inquiry due to
> the recent
> > influx of new topic related...or should I say unrelated to
> the
> > development of the SnowGlobe viewer.  Lately, when I open my
> email, I
> > get 5-10 different topics and responses daily to the recent
> changes
> > for the Third Party Viewer policy and I feel that this is
> not related
> > to SnowGlobe or related development at all.
> >
> > To "clear the pipes", can we please move these discussions
> to a
> > different forum or list so valid OpenSource development
> questions are
> > not lost in the flames, complaints, and discussions related
> to this
> > specific topic?
> >
> > I do not feel it is valid in this forum to talk about which
> > Third-Party Viewers in the directory were already
> impersonated or
> > which part of the third party viewer policy they do not
> like.
> >
> > Linden Labs, if you can please isolate this to another
> forum, I bet
> > those who are truly interested in the opensource development
> of the
> > Second Life viewer would be more in tuned to staying here
> rather than
> > wake up to read yet another unproductive "I hate LL and the
> TPVP lets
> > get together and share our misery post".
> >
> > Respectfully & Best Regards,
> >
> > Jonathan Irvin
> > SL Resident of 5 Years.
> 
> 
> > ___
> > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated
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> 
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> 


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Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list

[Tony Agudo]

Joe, is there a transcript/voice recording of the meeting available?

On Apr 14, 2010 12:27 PM, "Joe Linden"  wrote:

Rob,

I take it you weren't at the meeting yesterday?

-- Joe



On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Rob Nelson 
wrote:
>
> It's already...

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Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list

[Michael Dickson]

On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 16:27 +, Joe Linden wrote:
> Rob,
> 
> I take it you weren't at the meeting yesterday?
> 
> -- Joe

Is a transcript of this posted anywhere for those of us who could not
attend?

Thanks!

Mike



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Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list

[Lance Corrimal]

Joe,

have a beer ;)



or would you rather have a gallon of WD40? ;)




Am Mittwoch 14 April 2010 schrieb Joe Linden:
> Rob,
> 
> I take it you weren't at the meeting yesterday?
> 
> -- Joe
> 
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Rob Nelson 
wrote:
> > It's already reached a point where LL has told us, to our faces,
> > that they are not going to change the policy, meaning our
> > opinion doesn't mean diddly to them.  There's no use continuing
> > to discussion, just as there's no use continuing TPV
> > development.
> > 
> > On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 07:52 -0500, Jonathan Irvin wrote:
> > > To Whom It May Concern:
> > > 
> > > I'm requesting Linden Lab's response to this inquiry due to the
> > > recent influx of new topic related...or should I say unrelated
> > > to the development of the SnowGlobe viewer.  Lately, when I
> > > open my email, I get 5-10 different topics and responses daily
> > > to the recent changes for the Third Party Viewer policy and I
> > > feel that this is not related to SnowGlobe or related
> > > development at all.
> > > 
> > > To "clear the pipes", can we please move these discussions to a
> > > different forum or list so valid OpenSource development
> > > questions are not lost in the flames, complaints, and
> > > discussions related to this specific topic?
> > > 
> > > I do not feel it is valid in this forum to talk about which
> > > Third-Party Viewers in the directory were already impersonated
> > > or which part of the third party viewer policy they do not
> > > like.
> > > 
> > > Linden Labs, if you can please isolate this to another forum, I
> > > bet those who are truly interested in the opensource
> > > development of the Second Life viewer would be more in tuned
> > > to staying here rather than wake up to read yet another
> > > unproductive "I hate LL and the TPVP lets get together and
> > > share our misery post".
> > > 
> > > Respectfully & Best Regards,
> > > 
> > > Jonathan Irvin
> > > SL Resident of 5 Years.
> > > ___
> > > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> > > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> > > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated
> > > posting
> > 
> > privileges
> > 
> > 
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[opensource-dev] TPVp brownbag meeting transcript from 2010-04-13 (was: Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list)

[Boroondas Gupte]

On 04/14/2010 06:35 PM, Michael Dickson wrote:
> Is a transcript of this posted anywhere for those of us who could not
> attend?
>   
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/AW_Groupies/Chat_Logs/JoeLindenTPVBrownbag-2010-04-13

(Thanks Latha!)
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Re: [opensource-dev] Snowglobe 2.0 trunk binaries available

[Tayra Dagostino]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 16:49:03 -0700
"Philippe (Merov) Bossut"  wrote:

> Linux:
> http://secondlife.com/developers/opensource/downloads/2010/trunk/3318/Snowglobe-i686-2.0.0.3318.tar.bz2

don't start...

2010-04-14T17:02:57Z INFO: LLError::NoClassInfo::createContext:
Stencil Bits 8 2010-04-14T17:02:57Z INFO:
LLError::NoClassInfo::initExtensions: initExtensions() checking shell
variables to adjust features... 2010-04-14T17:02:57Z INFO:
LLError::NoClassInfo::initExtensions: initExtensions()
FramebufferObject-related procs... 2010-04-14T17:02:57Z INFO:
LLError::NoClassInfo::initExtensions: initExtensions()
OcclusionQuery-related procs... 2010-04-14T17:02:57Z INFO:
LLError::NoClassInfo::initExtensions: initExtensions()
PointParameters-related procs... 2010-04-14T17:02:57Z INFO:
LLError::NoClassInfo::initExtensions: initExtensions()
VertexShader-related procs... 2010-04-14T17:02:57Z WARNING:
LLError::NoClassInfo::addFeature: LLFeatureList::Attempting to add
preexisting feature Disregard128DefaultDrawDistance
2010-04-14T17:02:57Z INFO: LLError::NoClassInfo::loadGPUClass: GPU is
NVIDIA GTX 270 2010-04-14T17:02:57Z INFO:
LLError::NoClassInfo::applyBaseMasks: Setting GPU Class to Class3
2010-04-14T17:02:57Z INFO:
LLError::NoClassInfo::applyRecommendedSettings: Applying Recommended
Features 2010-04-14T17:02:57Z INFO:
LLError::NoClassInfo::applyBaseMasks: Setting GPU Class to Class3

Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x09220b1a in LLImageGL::setCategory(int) ()
(gdb) 

anyone else before fill a jira?
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Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list

[Rob Nelson]

I decided to read the transcript and it did not address any of my
concerns.  

[12:21][Voice Transcript] Joe Linden: we've ha a lot of internal debate
around cost/benefit of OS

^ That was all I needed to hear.  Debate's effectively over.

On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 09:27 -0700, Joe Linden wrote:
> Rob,
> 
> I take it you weren't at the meeting yesterday?
> 
> -- Joe
> 
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Rob Nelson
>  wrote:
> It's already reached a point where LL has told us, to our
> faces, that
> they are not going to change the policy, meaning our opinion
> doesn't
> mean diddly to them.  There's no use continuing to discussion,
> just as
> there's no use continuing TPV development.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 07:52 -0500, Jonathan Irvin wrote:
> > To Whom It May Concern:
> >
> > I'm requesting Linden Lab's response to this inquiry due to
> the recent
> > influx of new topic related...or should I say unrelated to
> the
> > development of the SnowGlobe viewer.  Lately, when I open my
> email, I
> > get 5-10 different topics and responses daily to the recent
> changes
> > for the Third Party Viewer policy and I feel that this is
> not related
> > to SnowGlobe or related development at all.
> >
> > To "clear the pipes", can we please move these discussions
> to a
> > different forum or list so valid OpenSource development
> questions are
> > not lost in the flames, complaints, and discussions related
> to this
> > specific topic?
> >
> > I do not feel it is valid in this forum to talk about which
> > Third-Party Viewers in the directory were already
> impersonated or
> > which part of the third party viewer policy they do not
> like.
> >
> > Linden Labs, if you can please isolate this to another
> forum, I bet
> > those who are truly interested in the opensource development
> of the
> > Second Life viewer would be more in tuned to staying here
> rather than
> > wake up to read yet another unproductive "I hate LL and the
> TPVP lets
> > get together and share our misery post".
> >
> > Respectfully & Best Regards,
> >
> > Jonathan Irvin
> > SL Resident of 5 Years.
> 
> 
> > ___
> > Policies and (un)subscribe information available here:
> > http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OpenSource-Dev
> > Please read the policies before posting to keep unmoderated
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Re: [opensource-dev] impending lawsuit?

[Argent Stonecutter]

I suggest you read up on how copyright law in the US actually works.  
You seem to be under the impression that the changes in 1989 when the  
US implemented most of the Berne Convention never happened.

I'm not commenting on the validity of this unsupported notecard, just  
noting that you're mistaken in some of your beliefs about copyright.
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Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list

[Rob Nelson]

And yet, it does restrict GPL distribution rights.  We've been over this
already.  And I'd like to see where the FSF OKed it, the only thing I
can turn up on Google is Richard Stallman not being too happy about it.

I already changed the viewer I used to be working on to Luna, but both
the GPL incompatabilities and this rather infuriating "cost/benefit"
comment by Joe have resulted in me deciding that LL does not deserve any
further OSS development work from me.


On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 14:11 -0400, Ron Festa wrote:
> Honestly I tried looking through my inbox to find out what your
> concerns were and why no one else addressed them so forgive me if I
> couldn't find them. The only problems I saw you had was compatibility
> with the GPLv2 and the use of "Life" in your viewer name. 
> 
> 
> The issues with Section 7 were in fact addressed and took up most of
> the meeting. Someone claimed they went as far as bringing the TPVP
> before the FSF to verify if its GPLv2 compliant and sadly according to
> them it is as its restricting a service not the code. Never the less
> concerns were brought up and productive changes were suggested.
> 
> 
> As for the branding this should be no argument. If in a court of law
> they can make Lindows change their name to Linspire because Microsoft
> owns *indows then LL can do the same with all the TPV's as stupid as
> that is.
> 
> 
> If these aren't your only concerns please share them so some of us can
> deliver them by proxy for you since the time zone difference seems to
> be the biggest problem for you.
> 
> 
> Ron Festa
> Virtual Worlds Admin
> Division of Continuing Studies at Rutgers University
> PGP key: http://bit.ly/b1ZyhY
> Phone: 732-474-8583
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Rob Nelson
>  wrote:
> I decided to read the transcript and it did not address any of
> my
> concerns.
> 
> [12:21][Voice Transcript] Joe Linden: we've ha a lot of
> internal debate
> around cost/benefit of OS
> 
> ^ That was all I needed to hear.  Debate's effectively over.
> 
> On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 09:27 -0700, Joe Linden wrote:
> 
> 
> > Rob,
> >
> > I take it you weren't at the meeting yesterday?
> >
> > -- Joe
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Rob Nelson
> >  wrote:
> > It's already reached a point where LL has told us,
> to our
> > faces, that
> > they are not going to change the policy, meaning our
> opinion
> > doesn't
> > mean diddly to them.  There's no use continuing to
> discussion,
> > just as
> > there's no use continuing TPV development.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 07:52 -0500, Jonathan Irvin
> wrote:
> > > To Whom It May Concern:
> > >
> > > I'm requesting Linden Lab's response to this
> inquiry due to
> > the recent
> > > influx of new topic related...or should I say
> unrelated to
> > the
> > > development of the SnowGlobe viewer.  Lately, when
> I open my
> > email, I
> > > get 5-10 different topics and responses daily to
> the recent
> > changes
> > > for the Third Party Viewer policy and I feel that
> this is
> > not related
> > > to SnowGlobe or related development at all.
> > >
> > > To "clear the pipes", can we please move these
> discussions
> > to a
> > > different forum or list so valid OpenSource
> development
> > questions are
> > > not lost in the flames, complaints, and
> discussions related
> > to this
> > > specific topic?
> > >
> > > I do not feel it is valid in this forum to talk
> about which
> > > Third-Party Viewers in the directory were already
> > impersonated or
> > > which part of the third party viewer policy they
> do not
> > like.
> > >
> > > Linden Labs, if you can please isolate this to
> another
> > forum, I bet
> > > those who are truly interested in the opensource
> development
> > of the
> > > Second Life viewer would be more in tuned to
> staying here
> > rather than
> > > wake up to read yet another unproductive "I hate
> LL and the
> > TPVP lets
> > > get together and share our mis

Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list

[Joe Linden]

For those watching without the benefit of a transcript or the actual words I
said in the meeting yesterday, here was the rest of that quote:  "* **we've
had a lot of internal debate around cost/benefit of OS **... and we're fully
committed to redoubling our commitment to make this a successful program*."
Was it infuriating that we have internal debates from time to time on how we
staff our projects, or infuriating because we are redoubling our efforts in
many ways to make this a more successful and meaningful project for the OS
community than it has been in the past?  I was actually making a comment
that we've not done this very well to date (in fact, we've sucked at it),
and we're committed to many changes to improve the situation.

Either way, we're sorry to see you go.

-- joe

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Rob Nelson
wrote:

> And yet, it does restrict GPL distribution rights.  We've been over this
> already.  And I'd like to see where the FSF OKed it, the only thing I
> can turn up on Google is Richard Stallman not being too happy about it.
>
> I already changed the viewer I used to be working on to Luna, but both
> the GPL incompatabilities and this rather infuriating "cost/benefit"
> comment by Joe have resulted in me deciding that LL does not deserve any
> further OSS development work from me.
>
>
> On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 14:11 -0400, Ron Festa wrote:
> > Honestly I tried looking through my inbox to find out what your
> > concerns were and why no one else addressed them so forgive me if I
> > couldn't find them. The only problems I saw you had was compatibility
> > with the GPLv2 and the use of "Life" in your viewer name.
> >
> >
> > The issues with Section 7 were in fact addressed and took up most of
> > the meeting. Someone claimed they went as far as bringing the TPVP
> > before the FSF to verify if its GPLv2 compliant and sadly according to
> > them it is as its restricting a service not the code. Never the less
> > concerns were brought up and productive changes were suggested.
> >
> >
> > As for the branding this should be no argument. If in a court of law
> > they can make Lindows change their name to Linspire because Microsoft
> > owns *indows then LL can do the same with all the TPV's as stupid as
> > that is.
> >
> >
> > If these aren't your only concerns please share them so some of us can
> > deliver them by proxy for you since the time zone difference seems to
> > be the biggest problem for you.
> >
> >
> > Ron Festa
> > Virtual Worlds Admin
> > Division of Continuing Studies at Rutgers University
> > PGP key: http://bit.ly/b1ZyhY
> > Phone: 732-474-8583
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Rob Nelson
> >  wrote:
> > I decided to read the transcript and it did not address any of
> > my
> > concerns.
> >
> > [12:21][Voice Transcript] Joe Linden: we've ha a lot of
> > internal debate
> > around cost/benefit of OS
> >
> > ^ That was all I needed to hear.  Debate's effectively over.
> >
> > On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 09:27 -0700, Joe Linden wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Rob,
> > >
> > > I take it you weren't at the meeting yesterday?
> > >
> > > -- Joe
> > >
> > > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Rob Nelson
> > >  wrote:
> > > It's already reached a point where LL has told us,
> > to our
> > > faces, that
> > > they are not going to change the policy, meaning our
> > opinion
> > > doesn't
> > > mean diddly to them.  There's no use continuing to
> > discussion,
> > > just as
> > > there's no use continuing TPV development.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 2010-04-14 at 07:52 -0500, Jonathan Irvin
> > wrote:
> > > > To Whom It May Concern:
> > > >
> > > > I'm requesting Linden Lab's response to this
> > inquiry due to
> > > the recent
> > > > influx of new topic related...or should I say
> > unrelated to
> > > the
> > > > development of the SnowGlobe viewer.  Lately, when
> > I open my
> > > email, I
> > > > get 5-10 different topics and responses daily to
> > the recent
> > > changes
> > > > for the Third Party Viewer policy and I feel that
> > this is
> > > not related
> > > > to SnowGlobe or related development at all.
> > > >
> > > > To "clear the pipes", can we please move these
> > discussions
> > > to a
> > > > different forum or list so valid OpenSource
> > development
> > > questions are
> > > > not lost in the flames, complain

Re: [opensource-dev] Login response request/processing in 1.23 vsSnowglobe / 2.0

[Philippe (Merov) Bossut]

Hi Kitty,

On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Kitty  wrote:

> Found a likely cause...
>
> Viewer 2.0 (and Snowglobe) isn't requesting a gzipped response from the
> login server which causes the login reply to take much, much longer to
> download than it does with 1.23.
>
> Is there any chance someone forget to build libcurl with zlib?
>
>
Good call!  It's filed under https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/EXT-6813

Brad's working on it. Thanks for pointing this out. Very much appreciated :)

Cheers,
- Merov
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Re: [opensource-dev] Requesting Linden Response: Please move TPVP Topics to a different mailing list

[VR Hacks]

Michael wrote in part:

> Is a transcript of this posted anywhere for those of us who could not
> attend?

I see someone has already posted a link to the full chat text transcript on 
the wiki.

Gareth Nelson was kind enough to provide the voice recording of the meeting, 
which can be found here:

http://bit.ly/TPVPbrownBag1

You can also access it via our vrhacks channel on iTunes. Hth!

Angela Talamasca (in-world)
MA Forensic Psychology


VR Hacks Blog: http://bit.ly/VRHacksBlog
VR Hacks Twitter: http://bit.ly/VRHacksTwitter
VR Hacks YouTube: http://bit.ly/VRHacksYouTube
Digital DNA in SL: http://bit.ly/VRHacksSLmap
Digital DNA in Blue Mars: http://bit.ly/BMclient
--
"Ordinary riches can be stolen, real riches cannot. In your soul are 
infinitely precious things that cannot be taken from you." - Oscar Wilde

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