Re: "Hacking" these days - purpose?
For fun and/or profit. Like the purpose always has been. Note that the definition of fun will vary. But overcoming a challenge of some sort is almost universally considered "fun". Bjørn
Re: Are the days of the showpiece NOC office display gone forever?
I remember working in the showpiece "Uncle Bernie" Ebbers had built in Ashburn, VA, for UUNET. You can even catch a glimpse of me in the American Greed episode dedicated to WorldCom's downfall. I wonder just what that place looks like now. Since then, I have seen NOCs with multiple displays for multiple customers, but only designed to be useful to NOC staff, not prospective customers or executives looking for something pretty to watch. -Original Message- From: Eric Kuhnke To: nanog@nanog.org list Sent: Wed, Dec 16, 2020 3:49 pm Subject: Are the days of the showpiece NOC office display gone forever? With the covid19 situation, obviously lots of ISPs have their NOC personnel working from home, with VPN (or remote desktop) access to all the internal tools, VoIP at home, etc. In the traditional sense, by "showpiece NOC" I mean a room designed for the purpose of having large situational awareness displays on a wall, network weathermaps and charts, alerting systems, composed of four or more big flat panel displays. Ideally configured to be actually useful for NOC purposes and also something impressive looking for customer tours. To what extent potential customers find that sort of thing to be a signifier of seriousness on the part of an ISP, I suppose depends on what sort of customers they are, and their relative degree of technical sophistication. Are the days of such an environment gone forever?
Re: Are the days of the showpiece NOC office display gone forever?
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 12:49:52PM -0800, Eric Kuhnke wrote: [snip] > Are the days of such an environment gone forever? We can only hope so. -- Posted from my personal account - see X-Disclaimer header. Joe Provo / Gweep / Earthling
Re: Are the days of the showpiece NOC office display gone forever?
"I'd piss on a spark plug if I thought it'd do any good ..." (Ed.: I'd take that "NOC" any day.) On 12/17/20 4:33 PM, Joe Provo wrote: On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 12:49:52PM -0800, Eric Kuhnke wrote: [snip] Are the days of such an environment gone forever? We can only hope so.
Re: Are the days of the showpiece NOC office display gone forever?
> > I'm sure when the automation is perfect and widespread to the point that > it catches and alerts on every network event, the monitoring rooms will > disappear. > The chances of this happening are exactly 0%. > But unless you have an entire organization dedicated to automation > development or pay an incredibly large sum of money for pre-built packages, > the business decision may still be made to actively monitor the network > with eyeballs. > Contrary to what salespeople will say, the answer is not 100% automation, or 100% humans. The proper answer is an often changing combination of the two. Every failure mode is known until a new one pops up. Automation without > any kind of ML secret sauce relies on known failure-modes. ML is not the magical unicorn solution that solves everything, contrary to what many papers and salespeople tell you. Let's take a network interface that is randomly shitting on packets. What is more important operationally, identifying that the packets are being shat on, or having ML predict when the next shatting will occur? Clearly the first right? You want to find it and fix it as fast as possible. There could be a place for ML when it comes to diagnosing the reason for the shitting , but that's different. There may be some interesting applications for ML in tracking down really complicated operational anomalies, but it will never be a primary mode of detection for the same reason you said ; Every failure mode is known until a new one pops up. You can't train an ML model for a failure condition that you don't know exists. On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 5:51 PM Matt Erculiani wrote: > > That is not to say that large monitoring rooms are a better choice over > automation (which they are not). > > I'm sure when the automation is perfect and widespread to the point that > it catches and alerts on every network event, the monitoring rooms will > disappear. > > But unless you have an entire organization dedicated to automation > development or pay an incredibly large sum of money for pre-built packages, > the business decision may still be made to actively monitor the network > with eyeballs. > > Every failure mode is known until a new one pops up. Automation without > any kind of ML secret sauce relies on known failure-modes. > > Not advocating one or the other, just playing Devil's advocate for the > Devil's advocate. > > -Matt > > On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 2:28 PM Töma Gavrichenkov > wrote: > >> Peace, >> >> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 12:21 AM Lady Benjamin PD Cannon >> wrote: >> >>> We are still operating ours - 27 1080P projectors - but with a skeleton >>> crew of just 3. Given the air volume, it’s almost like outside. >>> >> >> A devil advocate here, >> >> First of all, COVID-19 is really serious. >> >> With that in mind, with all the necessary precautions office space *may* >> be managed safely to prevent the spread. >> >> Production plants had security measures preventing workforce injuries for >> a century already. Just a bit of that, with constant trainings, would get >> your monitoring room safe, especially with all the bars closed and >> everything operating on delivery. >> >> That is not to say that large monitoring rooms are a better choice over >> automation (which they are not). >> >> -- >> Töma >> >>> > > -- > Matt Erculiani > ERCUL-ARIN >
Re: Don't need someone with clue @ Network Solutions.
> "JL" == John Levine writes: JL> Right. When I query the .COM zone servers, they say quite clearly that JL> there is no crocker.com glue in the .COM zone. See below. a czds dl, however, shows: :; zgrep -E ^dns-auth.\.crocker\.com com.txt.gz dns-auth1.crocker.com. 172800 in a 66.59.48.87 dns-auth2.crocker.com. 172800 in a 66.59.48.88 dns-auth3.crocker.com. 172800 in a 66.59.48.94 dns-auth4.crocker.com. 172800 in a 66.59.48.95 and leaving off the ^ shows that a large number of zones use those. -JimC -- James Cloos OpenPGP: 0x997A9F17ED7DAEA6
Re: Don't need someone with clue @ Network Solutions.
a czds dl, however, shows: You're right, I checked again. :; zgrep -E ^dns-auth.\.crocker\.com com.txt.gz dns-auth1.crocker.com. 172800 in a 66.59.48.87 dns-auth2.crocker.com. 172800 in a 66.59.48.88 dns-auth3.crocker.com. 172800 in a 66.59.48.94 dns-auth4.crocker.com. 172800 in a 66.59.48.95 and leaving off the ^ shows that a large number of zones use those. Since crocker.com uses different NS, I still don't see why they're in the .COM zone. Making inquiries. Regards, John Levine, jo...@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Re: Are the days of the showpiece NOC office display gone forever?
Subject: Re: Are the days of the showpiece NOC office display gone forever? From: Tom Beecher To: Matt Erculiani Cc: NANOG Operators' Group Date: Thursday, 12/17/2020 11:59:37 [...] Contrary to what salespeople will say, the answer is not 100% automation, or 100% humans. The proper answer is an often changing combination of the two. I believe the desired combination is automation + button-pushing monkeys. ML is not the magical unicorn solution that solves everything, contrary to what many papers and salespeople tell you. [...] But which will write Shakespeare first? I'd bet on the monkeys, although both come up with some unique and unanticipated ways to fail. Oh well. Back to pushing buttons. Someday my masterpiece will be complete... Peter E. Fry
Re: Are the days of the showpiece NOC office display gone forever?
I’ve learned that the secret is automation + intelligent trained and empowered staff. Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon, ASCE 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC CEO b...@6by7.net "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company in the world.” FCC License KJ6FJJ Sent from my iPhone via RFC1149. > On Dec 17, 2020, at 3:17 PM, Peter E. Fry wrote: > > > >> Subject: Re: Are the days of the showpiece NOC office display gone forever? >> From: Tom Beecher >> To: Matt Erculiani >> Cc: NANOG Operators' Group >> Date: Thursday, 12/17/2020 11:59:37 > [...] >> Contrary to what salespeople will say, the answer is not 100% automation, or >> 100% humans. The proper answer is an often changing combination of the two. > I believe the desired combination is automation + button-pushing monkeys. > >> ML is not the magical unicorn solution that solves everything, contrary to >> what many papers and salespeople tell you. [...] > But which will write Shakespeare first? I'd bet on the monkeys, although > both come up with some unique and unanticipated ways to fail. > > Oh well. Back to pushing buttons. Someday my masterpiece will be complete... > > Peter E. Fry > >
