Re: __guard_local issue
Thank you so much! That did the trick. There was no need to specify: DED_LDFLAGS="-shared /usr/lib/crtbeginS.o /usr/lib/crtendS.o" because this configuration generated conflict on '__guard_local' It seems that DED_LDFLAGS="-shared" is sufficient enough to make that symbol visible. Bogdan From: Matthew Dempsky To: Bogdan Andu Cc: "misc@openbsd.org" Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 12:04 AM Subject: Re: __guard_local issue On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 2:38 AM, Bogdan Andu wrote: > ./configure > sudo gmake install > the same error You need to run autoreconf, to regenerate configure from configure.in.
Re: OpenBSD on Ouya/Tegra3
I don't know much about Ouya or the Tegra3, but usually you'll need to ask the following: a) Can I access the bootloader? (Is it u-boot? Can I boot my own stuff?) b) Is there an (easily) accessible serial console? c) How good is the documentation? Once that's solved it's probably not that hard to port OpenBSD. You just have to adjust some addresses and write drivers. UART is the starting point there. Also, see inline comments. \Patrick Am 24.05.2013 um 05:17 schrieb jordon : > With Ouya consoles starting to make it to market, I'm wondering if > there's a chance that OpenBSD could be ported to it. This is something > I would love to help with but have no idea where to begin. The > documentation for the Tegra3 is available from nvidia's website, though > you have to register and then request access to the Tegra section (I > left most of the questions blank and just put "I want to see the > documentation" for the reasons and was granted access in about 3 > minutes). > > I have some microcontroller experience (PIC18 and currently playing > with a PIC32), and I did play with an ARM dev kit for a bit a long time > ago, but I have some questions on how OpenBSD/ARM works. When I was > working with an ARM, the entire program was stored in the on-chip flash > memory - like a microcontroller. With a larger OS like OpenBSD, what > is stored on the chip and what is loaded from external storage? Is the > entire kernel stored on chip or just a bootloader? Beagle- and PandaBoard don't seem to have on-chip flash, the whole system is stored on external storage (sdcard, usb). There are other boards though, which have their system on on-chip flash. > As I understand, not all ARM chips are equal - each one pretty much > needs its own port, and currently BeagleBoard is the main one getting > worked on. Right? All BeagleBoard, BeagleBone and PandaBoard. They all work with the beagle port. > So... is this worth pursuing? The idea of a $99 cube that could run > OpenBSD is pretty intriguing, but how possible is it? Are there > licensing strings attached to Tegra3 that would make this difficult? No idea. It really depends on how accessible it is (in terms of booting custom stuff and having a serial console). And, of course, if blobs are needed for (proper) usage. > jordon
HP Pavilion a1516in : Minitower...
Dear Peter &/or Miscelleneous @ bsd, I purchased my HP Pavilion in India, (it was actually a present from Dad) had the full version of MS media centre edition.Due to various reasons I had to uninstall it...did however back it up to external drives. I've tried loading Debian 6.5 (Squeeze), Fedora 18 but they refuse to install, Even Knoppix 6.5 refuses... I have bought the following card for the PCI-E slot > HEATSINK! Asus GF 210 PCI-E 2.0 1GB DDR3 64-bit, 589/1200MHz. DVI,VGA,HDMI, > DX10.1, SUPPORT LOW PROFILE SILENT > Asus GF 210 PCI-E 2.0 1GB DDR3 64-bit, 589/1200MHz. DVI,VGA,HDMI, DX10.1, > SUPPORT LOW PROFILE SILENT > (LP brackets to be invoiced separately as FOC, Part numbers are: > LP-BRACKET-D-Sub and LP-BRACKET-HDMI-DVI) For internet access I only have the University wireless service provider, so therefore I bought; > TP-LINK TL-WN951N Advanced 300M wireless N PCI Adapter, Atheros, 3T3R, > 2.4GHz, 802.11n/g/b, with 3 detachable antennas $39 > TP-LINK TL-WN951N Advanced wireless N PCI Adapter, Atheros, 3T3R, 2.4GHz, > 802.11n/g/b, with 3 detachable antennas > * 300M wireless transmission rate > * 3 transmitting and 3 receiving MIMO infrastructure compared with the > common 2 transmitting and 3 receiving infrastructure brings improved > wireless transmission rates and stability. > * SST technology promotes high wireless transmission performance in long > distance and high interference environments > * Compatible with 11g and 11b equipment, Intel Centrino Compatibility > tested My HP specs although the minitower version, should be the same as this (at least I am hoping so...) http://h2.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&o bjectID=c00763695&jumpid=reg_r1002_usen_c-001_title_r0002 Please advise on which version of BSD would be best for my machine. I can also be reached on; 17260...@uws.edu.au Thanking you all, Rajneesh http://my.opera.com/shettyrn/about/ tel :+61402350315 Rajneesh N. Shetty > > From: Peter N. M. Hansteen >To: TRUNASUCI TRUNASUCI >Cc: misc@openbsd.org >Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2013 2:49 PM >Subject: Re: OpenBSD official reference book ( like FreeBSD handbook / NetBSD Guide ) > > >"TRUNASUCI TRUNASUCI" writes: > >> I just wanna ask if there is a project for this official refernce book >> for all users ( if any please inform ). Since i cant find any kind of >> like this on openbsd web. Just my reference is on FAQ and some other >> doc. > >The closest thing to an official 'handbook' that the OpenBSD project >offers is the FAQ, http://www.openbsd.org/faq/. That one should take you >some way, supplemented with a bit of man page reading now and then. For >actual books, well, as others have mentioned, the more recent titles >from http://www.openbsd.org/books.html are generally considered useful. > >- Peter > >-- >Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team >http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ >"Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic" >delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Linux Xorg security issues
Hi, reading a news post http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTM3ODA it turned out that there might be a number of security issues with xorg on linux (really ? Lol ). I wonder how that affects the openbsd xorg. Can anyone with more insight share his knowledge ? Jan
Re: BCM5719C/BCM5720 partially working
Mike Belopuhov wrote on 2013-05-23 21:55:
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 11:04 +0200, David Imhoff wrote:
The problem seems to be in the Auto polling of the mac link state.
ifconfig shows the correct link state, but the BGE_STS_LINK bit in
the driver is never set. Debugging the interrupt routine I found the
driver never receives a link state changed attention, instead the
last interrupt indicates a auto-poll error and bit 0 of register
BGE_AUTOPOLL_STS is set.
Looking at the FreeBSD and Linux drivers I found that they don't use
auto-polling. Also the programmers guide of the BCM5718 family(page
204) doesn't describe the auto-polling method anymore, as was done
in the PG of other BCM57xx.
I agree that this might be a better solution than what I had:
setting the BGE_STS_LINK_EVT flag back in bge_link_upd to force
the bge_intr into running it every time untill it gets the link;
and it seems to work.
I also tried fixing auto-polling mode, but it kept giving me a lot
of bogus interrupts(few hundred) after bringing the link up. Using
the LNKRDY signal just gives 2 interrupts.
So I disabled Auto-polling for the BCM5718 family. This made all
ports work on my Dell R320(BCM5720) and BCM5719. My BCM5719 still
doesn't fully work because now i run into bge_watchdog reset's when
sending big packet, the same issue reported by Robert Young on 5
April.
Right, it seems like the TX completion interrupts never arrive
for large packets. Forcing txeof doesn't help. In fact I can
see some funny things going on here: for small ping packets 1
out of 1 tx buffer descriptors contain an mbuf to scratch, for
170 byte packets 1 out of 2 tx bd's contain an mbuf, for 250
byte packets 1 out of 3 tx bd's contain an mbuf, for 500 byte
packets TX completion interrupt never arrives.
In my setup the problem seems RX related. Sending a 1450
byte ping to a non-existing host using a forced arp entry works.
But when i do the same on the remote host and run tcpdump on
the BCM5719 interface, the controller crashes and the
watchdog will trigger when trying to send a (small) packet.
My steps to reproduce:
- connect bge host to a remote host using a hub or direct link
- on bge host:
# ifconfig bge0 192.168.1.1
# tcpdump -n -i bge0
- on remote host:
# ifconfig ??? 192.168.1.2
# arp -s 192.168.1.4 02:11:11:11:11:14
# ping -c 1 192.168.1.4
# ping -s 1450 -c 5 192.168.1.4
- on bge host, tcpdump shows only 1 packet received
- on bge host: ping -c 1 192.168.1.2
- wait a bit, and notice the watchdog reset
I had a suspicion that this is because ASF mode is turned on
and we fail to share a port with IPMI firmware, but right now
I'm more inclined to believe that this is just another TX bug.
Both of my BCM5719 cards are PCI/E expansion cards, so no port
sharing on them.
I also noticed if_bge.c line 2293:
BGE_SETBIT(sc, BGE_MI_MODE, BGE_MIMODE_AUTOPOLL|10<<16);
Does any one have a clue why the (10<<16) is there? it changes the
MI clock. But why? and why OR 0xA with the default 0xC, instead of
0x2? FreeBSD and Linux use the default of 0xC for the MI Clock.
I think it's a remnant of the original code and it should be
BGE_MIMODE_BASE (as in "the other frequency").
But since BGE_MIMODE_BASE is the default value after reset and
OR'ing the value wouldn't be correct, I suggest to just remove
the '|(10<<16)'.
Index: sys/dev/pci/if_bge.c
===
RCS file: /cvs/src/sys/dev/pci/if_bge.c,v
retrieving revision 1.320
diff -u -r1.320 if_bge.c
--- sys/dev/pci/if_bge.c4 Mar 2013 01:33:18 - 1.320
+++ sys/dev/pci/if_bge.c21 May 2013 13:18:36 -
@@ -2288,7 +2288,9 @@
/* Enable PHY auto polling (for MII/GMII only) */
if (sc->bge_flags & BGE_PHY_FIBER_TBI) {
CSR_WRITE_4(sc, BGE_MI_STS, BGE_MISTS_LINK);
- } else {
+ } else if (!(BGE_ASICREV(sc->bge_chipid) == BGE_ASICREV_BCM5717 ||
+ BGE_ASICREV(sc->bge_chipid) == BGE_ASICREV_BCM5719 ||
+ BGE_ASICREV(sc->bge_chipid) == BGE_ASICREV_BCM5720)) {
BGE_STS_SETBIT(sc, BGE_STS_AUTOPOLL);
BGE_SETBIT(sc, BGE_MI_MODE, BGE_MIMODE_AUTOPOLL|10<<16);
if (BGE_ASICREV(sc->bge_chipid) == BGE_ASICREV_BCM5700)
@@ -4386,18 +4388,13 @@
if_link_state_change(ifp);
ifp->if_baudrate = 0;
}
- /*
-* Discard link events for MII/GMII cards if MI auto-polling
disabled.
-* This should not happen since mii callouts are locked now, but
-* we keep this check for debug.
-*/
- } else if (BGE_STS_BIT(sc, BGE_STS_AUTOPOLL)) {
+ } else {
/*
I think you've missed some important bits here.
I tried to keep the functional changes to a minimum. As far as I
could see the new code didn't do anything less then the original.
* Some broken BCM chips have BGE_STATFLAG_LINKSTATE_CHANGED bit
Linux Xorg security issues
Thanks Paul for this information. OpenBSD developers are fast as lightning. Great !
Re: Thinkpad X230t convertible and openbsd
Thanos Tsouanas wrote: > > FWIW, the "Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300" iwn(4) in my non-t X230 > > works just fine. That's the "3x3" card on their order site. > > Could you please check the exact model and FCC ID of that card? > > "Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300" card > (model: 633ANHMW, FCC ID: PD9633ANH) Where would I find this information? It's not on the invoice and there is no sticker. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
Re: BCM5719C/BCM5720 partially working
On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 15:48 +0200, David Imhoff wrote:
> Mike Belopuhov wrote on 2013-05-23 21:55:
> >On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 11:04 +0200, David Imhoff wrote:
> >>The problem seems to be in the Auto polling of the mac link state.
> >>ifconfig shows the correct link state, but the BGE_STS_LINK bit in
> >>the driver is never set. Debugging the interrupt routine I found the
> >>driver never receives a link state changed attention, instead the
> >>last interrupt indicates a auto-poll error and bit 0 of register
> >>BGE_AUTOPOLL_STS is set.
> >>Looking at the FreeBSD and Linux drivers I found that they don't use
> >>auto-polling. Also the programmers guide of the BCM5718 family(page
> >>204) doesn't describe the auto-polling method anymore, as was done
> >>in the PG of other BCM57xx.
> >I agree that this might be a better solution than what I had:
> >setting the BGE_STS_LINK_EVT flag back in bge_link_upd to force
> >the bge_intr into running it every time untill it gets the link;
> >and it seems to work.
>
> I also tried fixing auto-polling mode, but it kept giving me a lot
> of bogus interrupts(few hundred) after bringing the link up. Using
> the LNKRDY signal just gives 2 interrupts.
>
> >>So I disabled Auto-polling for the BCM5718 family. This made all
> >>ports work on my Dell R320(BCM5720) and BCM5719. My BCM5719 still
> >>doesn't fully work because now i run into bge_watchdog reset's when
> >>sending big packet, the same issue reported by Robert Young on 5
> >>April.
> >>
> >Right, it seems like the TX completion interrupts never arrive
> >for large packets. Forcing txeof doesn't help. In fact I can
> >see some funny things going on here: for small ping packets 1
> >out of 1 tx buffer descriptors contain an mbuf to scratch, for
> >170 byte packets 1 out of 2 tx bd's contain an mbuf, for 250
> >byte packets 1 out of 3 tx bd's contain an mbuf, for 500 byte
> >packets TX completion interrupt never arrives.
>
> In my setup the problem seems RX related. Sending a 1450
> byte ping to a non-existing host using a forced arp entry works.
> But when i do the same on the remote host and run tcpdump on
> the BCM5719 interface, the controller crashes and the
> watchdog will trigger when trying to send a (small) packet.
>
> My steps to reproduce:
> - connect bge host to a remote host using a hub or direct link
> - on bge host:
># ifconfig bge0 192.168.1.1
># tcpdump -n -i bge0
> - on remote host:
># ifconfig ??? 192.168.1.2
># arp -s 192.168.1.4 02:11:11:11:11:14
># ping -c 1 192.168.1.4
># ping -s 1450 -c 5 192.168.1.4
> - on bge host, tcpdump shows only 1 packet received
> - on bge host: ping -c 1 192.168.1.2
> - wait a bit, and notice the watchdog reset
>
Hmm, rx is screwed up for sure. take a look at "-s 200": it won't
lock up, but messages are received incorrectly, part of the payload
gets duplicated.
So it looks like that chip gets hung when it's receiving, but since
we don't transmit anything and don't reset the timer watchdog fires.
> >I had a suspicion that this is because ASF mode is turned on
> >and we fail to share a port with IPMI firmware, but right now
> >I'm more inclined to believe that this is just another TX bug.
>
> Both of my BCM5719 cards are PCI/E expansion cards, so no port
> sharing on them.
>
It confirms my suspicion that it's not IPMI related.
> >>I also noticed if_bge.c line 2293:
> >>BGE_SETBIT(sc, BGE_MI_MODE, BGE_MIMODE_AUTOPOLL|10<<16);
> >>Does any one have a clue why the (10<<16) is there? it changes the
> >>MI clock. But why? and why OR 0xA with the default 0xC, instead of
> >>0x2? FreeBSD and Linux use the default of 0xC for the MI Clock.
> >>
> >I think it's a remnant of the original code and it should be
> >BGE_MIMODE_BASE (as in "the other frequency").
>
> But since BGE_MIMODE_BASE is the default value after reset and
> OR'ing the value wouldn't be correct, I suggest to just remove
> the '|(10<<16)'.
>
I'm not OR'ing it in, I'm overwriting the value.
> >Please inspect my diff below; I believe it's more complete.
> >diff --git sys/dev/pci/if_bge.c sys/dev/pci/if_bge.c
> >index 1d37192..d357443 100644
> >--- sys/dev/pci/if_bge.c
> >+++ sys/dev/pci/if_bge.c
> >@@ -1055,10 +1055,22 @@ bge_miibus_statchg(struct device *dev)
> > (mii->mii_media_active & IFM_ETH_FMASK) != sc->bge_flowflags) {
> > sc->bge_flowflags = mii->mii_media_active & IFM_ETH_FMASK;
> > mii->mii_media_active &= ~IFM_ETH_FMASK;
> > }
> >+if (!BGE_STS_BIT(sc, BGE_STS_LINK) &&
> >+mii->mii_media_status & IFM_ACTIVE &&
> >+IFM_SUBTYPE(mii->mii_media_active) != IFM_NONE)
> >+BGE_STS_SETBIT(sc, BGE_STS_LINK);
> >+else if (BGE_STS_BIT(sc, BGE_STS_LINK) &&
> >+(!(mii->mii_media_status & IFM_ACTIVE) ||
> >+IFM_SUBTYPE(mii->mii_media_active) == IFM_NONE))
> >+BGE_STS_CLRBIT(sc, BGE_STS_LINK);
> >+
> >+if (!BGE_STS_BIT(sc, BGE_STS_LINK))
> >+return;
> >+
> >
Re: Xephyr bug with Firefox
I also run Firefox in Xephyr - on debian 32bit. I _often_ have had the capslock or shift get stuck, and I too always had to restart Xephyr. IIRC it always got stuck when I alt-tab away from (or back to) Xephyr (maybe because I hit the shift key accidentally? or maybe the capslock was on? ) I hope you can find an answer; please let me know. If you file a bug, please forward it to me &/or send me a link. Thanks Charles
Seeking GUI refuge
Hi Everyone My name is Patrick, this is my first post here. I switched my primary computer from Windows to Linux about 9 years ago. I service scientific instruments. About 12 years ago I became aware of the brutal conditions scientific software is sold under. I have been slowly writing my own application to work with these instruments, it's taken a long time because I have had to learn to code. I had always planed on deploying on Linux. While about 7 out of the 9 years with Linux have been good, the graphical experience on Linux has plummeted for me. I don't really want to send prospective customers to Linux any more. I am fearing that Windows may end up being my only option. It looks like OpenBSD is all about software correctness and I am sure it will be great to work with, in a sort of "back end" way but is there a desktop manager to work with it that can match the reliability of OpenBSD? I tried to load Fluxbox and was disappointed with it. It had several menubuttons for application that were not yet installed. Any help would be very much appreciated, I feel trapped and it sounds weird to say this but I am really a bit depressed about the idea of heading back to Windows.
Re: Seeking GUI refuge
Gnome isn't bad on OpenBSD, but depending on what you don't like about linux, that may not live up to your expectations. Frankly, though, as an almost life-long Windows user both personally and professionally, if I had GUI concerns I'd seriously consider whether OSX was a viable option rather than Windows. With that said, I wouldn't target either platform for X11. On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Patrick Mc(avery wrote: > Hi Everyone > > My name is Patrick, this is my first post here. > > I switched my primary computer from Windows to Linux about 9 years ago. > > I service scientific instruments. About 12 years ago I became aware of the > brutal conditions scientific software is sold under. I have been slowly > writing my own application to work with these instruments, it's taken a long > time because I have had to learn to code. > > I had always planed on deploying on Linux. > > While about 7 out of the 9 years with Linux have been good, the graphical > experience on Linux has plummeted for me. I don't really want to send > prospective customers to Linux any more. I am fearing that Windows may end > up being my only option. > > It looks like OpenBSD is all about software correctness and I am sure it > will be great to work with, in a sort of "back end" way but is there a > desktop manager to work with it that can match the reliability of OpenBSD? > > I tried to load Fluxbox and was disappointed with it. It had several > menubuttons for application that were not yet installed. > > Any help would be very much appreciated, I feel trapped and it sounds weird > to say this but I am really a bit depressed about the idea of heading back > to Windows.
Re: Seeking GUI refuge
On 05/25/13 10:48, Patrick Mc(avery wrote: Hi Everyone [chop] While about 7 out of the 9 years with Linux have been good, the graphical experience on Linux has plummeted for me. I don't really want to send prospective customers to Linux any more. I am fearing that Windows may end up being my only option. Which Windows GUI is that? Last version I liked was Windows 2000; XP was OK, 7 a disaster, and sounds like Microsoft are backpedaling on Windows 8 and the tile-based approach. Not sure there is any perfect GUI - if you are looking for something exactly like Windows, then you are going to have Windows (but as I say, "Windows" is a moving target - you talking about XP, 7 or 8, or "Blue"?) KDE 4 and Gnome 3 have been big jumps from their previous versions. I've been through KDE 3.5.10 to Gnome 3 to cwm, currently on XFCE which suits me personally. If you get put off by a few links to non-installed applications, then don't think much is going to help you. OS X looks nice, but there are a few frustrations in there, too. And if your customers prefer the Windows experience, then it's no help - it's not Windows, it is different. Anyway, everything is meant to be on the cloud, Web 2.0 (or is it 3.0), iOS, Android, etc. so no-one cares about the desktop anymore. Yeah, right! Good luck!
Re: Seeking GUI refuge
I have been an OpenBSD user since 2.3 or 2.4 and I agree. If you want a pretty GUI, go with OS X. There is another route. Have your collectors be OpenBSD. Write a pretty GUI in Objective C for iOS. Sent from my magical iPhone 7 On May 24, 2013, at 6:59 PM, Marti Martinez wrote: > Gnome isn't bad on OpenBSD, but depending on what you don't like about > linux, that may not live up to your expectations. > > Frankly, though, as an almost life-long Windows user both personally > and professionally, if I had GUI concerns I'd seriously consider > whether OSX was a viable option rather than Windows. With that said, I > wouldn't target either platform for X11. > > On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Patrick Mc(avery > wrote: >> Hi Everyone >> >> My name is Patrick, this is my first post here. >> >> I switched my primary computer from Windows to Linux about 9 years ago. >> >> I service scientific instruments. About 12 years ago I became aware of the >> brutal conditions scientific software is sold under. I have been slowly >> writing my own application to work with these instruments, it's taken a long >> time because I have had to learn to code. >> >> I had always planed on deploying on Linux. >> >> While about 7 out of the 9 years with Linux have been good, the graphical >> experience on Linux has plummeted for me. I don't really want to send >> prospective customers to Linux any more. I am fearing that Windows may end >> up being my only option. >> >> It looks like OpenBSD is all about software correctness and I am sure it >> will be great to work with, in a sort of "back end" way but is there a >> desktop manager to work with it that can match the reliability of OpenBSD? >> >> I tried to load Fluxbox and was disappointed with it. It had several >> menubuttons for application that were not yet installed. >> >> Any help would be very much appreciated, I feel trapped and it sounds weird >> to say this but I am really a bit depressed about the idea of heading back >> to Windows.
Re: Seeking GUI refuge
I started out using KDE while I was leaving Windows behind. I now hate the KDE "experience", but I constantly have to help my Dad with it. I am constantly bugged by desperate Windows users looking for help but unable to make that dreadful jump into a free and secure operating system like OpenBSD, even when I offer them a USB drive to check it out. What exactly are you looking for when you say a "GUI"? That really covers a huge field. What does it need to cover? I use spectrwm. Fits me perfectly. Fast and low memory. But it might not be right for you. Try a bunch of different window managers. There are a lot of crappy ones. A few good ones. Chris Bennett
Re: Seeking GUI refuge
Hi Richard Actually I am not looking for a Windows clone, just a software-correct GUI. I don't need much too. I need text input widgets and a way to display graphs. The graphs could be grammatically created images that are independent of the window manager and widget toolkit but simply presented to the user. XFCE was okay on Linux but I still had some issues. XFCE on Fedora was a train wreck. It was really quite a lot of links to non-installed programs and it's not about what I can sort though, it's that I want to present an open source OS to people who have never used one. It has to follow the law of least astonishment. Hi good0Th I don't really need prettiness but thanks for the post. -Patrick On 13-05-24 07:14 PM, Richard Toohey wrote: On 05/25/13 10:48, Patrick Mc(avery wrote: Hi Everyone [chop] While about 7 out of the 9 years with Linux have been good, the graphical experience on Linux has plummeted for me. I don't really want to send prospective customers to Linux any more. I am fearing that Windows may end up being my only option. Which Windows GUI is that? Last version I liked was Windows 2000; XP was OK, 7 a disaster, and sounds like Microsoft are backpedaling on Windows 8 and the tile-based approach. Not sure there is any perfect GUI - if you are looking for something exactly like Windows, then you are going to have Windows (but as I say, "Windows" is a moving target - you talking about XP, 7 or 8, or "Blue"?) KDE 4 and Gnome 3 have been big jumps from their previous versions. I've been through KDE 3.5.10 to Gnome 3 to cwm, currently on XFCE which suits me personally. If you get put off by a few links to non-installed applications, then don't think much is going to help you. OS X looks nice, but there are a few frustrations in there, too. And if your customers prefer the Windows experience, then it's no help - it's not Windows, it is different. Anyway, everything is meant to be on the cloud, Web 2.0 (or is it 3.0), iOS, Android, etc. so no-one cares about the desktop anymore. Yeah, right! Good luck!
Re: Seeking GUI refuge
Hi Marti Thanks so much for your rapid and helpful response. I will still consider Mac OSX but it's just that it is the worst of two worlds for me. Labs use Windows only. If I ship something that works on windows, I don't have to swim against the current with this topic. I am willing to swim for free software but OSX is not free either :( -Patrick On 13-05-24 06:59 PM, Marti Martinez wrote: Gnome isn't bad on OpenBSD, but depending on what you don't like about linux, that may not live up to your expectations. Frankly, though, as an almost life-long Windows user both personally and professionally, if I had GUI concerns I'd seriously consider whether OSX was a viable option rather than Windows. With that said, I wouldn't target either platform for X11. On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Patrick Mc(avery wrote: Hi Everyone My name is Patrick, this is my first post here. I switched my primary computer from Windows to Linux about 9 years ago. I service scientific instruments. About 12 years ago I became aware of the brutal conditions scientific software is sold under. I have been slowly writing my own application to work with these instruments, it's taken a long time because I have had to learn to code. I had always planed on deploying on Linux. While about 7 out of the 9 years with Linux have been good, the graphical experience on Linux has plummeted for me. I don't really want to send prospective customers to Linux any more. I am fearing that Windows may end up being my only option. It looks like OpenBSD is all about software correctness and I am sure it will be great to work with, in a sort of "back end" way but is there a desktop manager to work with it that can match the reliability of OpenBSD? I tried to load Fluxbox and was disappointed with it. It had several menubuttons for application that were not yet installed. Any help would be very much appreciated, I feel trapped and it sounds weird to say this but I am really a bit depressed about the idea of heading back to Windows.
Re: Seeking GUI refuge
Hi Chris Actually spectrwm looks very cool. I really like ncurses based interfaces but I need to display images too. I could see a hybrid application fitting into this window manger. On 13-05-24 07:29 PM, Chris Bennett wrote: I started out using KDE while I was leaving Windows behind. I now hate the KDE "experience", but I constantly have to help my Dad with it. I am constantly bugged by desperate Windows users looking for help but unable to make that dreadful jump into a free and secure operating system like OpenBSD, even when I offer them a USB drive to check it out. What exactly are you looking for when you say a "GUI"? That really covers a huge field. What does it need to cover? I use spectrwm. Fits me perfectly. Fast and low memory. But it might not be right for you. Try a bunch of different window managers. There are a lot of crappy ones. A few good ones. Chris Bennett
Re: Seeking GUI refuge
Have you considered a thought that XFCE may be easily customizable? The non-existing program entries can be removed and the UI customized to your liking? >From what you describe it doesn't seem you require pretty graphics. I would >suggest trying out the light window managers. Customizing a window manager to >your liking is pretty straightforward with the light variants (not gnome and >kde - these are SAKs - Swiss Army Knives). You may possibly find one that >exactly matches the job... -ag -- sent via 100% recycled electrons from my mobile command center. On May 24, 2013, at 5:39 PM, "Patrick Mc(avery" wrote: > Hi Marti > > Thanks so much for your rapid and helpful response. > > I will still consider Mac OSX but it's just that it is the worst of two > worlds for me. Labs use Windows only. If I ship something that works on > windows, I don't have to swim against the current with this topic. I am > willing to swim for free software but OSX is not free either :( > -Patrick > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13-05-24 06:59 PM, Marti Martinez wrote: >> Gnome isn't bad on OpenBSD, but depending on what you don't like about >> linux, that may not live up to your expectations. >> >> Frankly, though, as an almost life-long Windows user both personally >> and professionally, if I had GUI concerns I'd seriously consider >> whether OSX was a viable option rather than Windows. With that said, I >> wouldn't target either platform for X11. >> >> On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Patrick Mc(avery >> wrote: >>> Hi Everyone >>> >>> My name is Patrick, this is my first post here. >>> >>> I switched my primary computer from Windows to Linux about 9 years ago. >>> >>> I service scientific instruments. About 12 years ago I became aware of the >>> brutal conditions scientific software is sold under. I have been slowly >>> writing my own application to work with these instruments, it's taken a long >>> time because I have had to learn to code. >>> >>> I had always planed on deploying on Linux. >>> >>> While about 7 out of the 9 years with Linux have been good, the graphical >>> experience on Linux has plummeted for me. I don't really want to send >>> prospective customers to Linux any more. I am fearing that Windows may end >>> up being my only option. >>> >>> It looks like OpenBSD is all about software correctness and I am sure it >>> will be great to work with, in a sort of "back end" way but is there a >>> desktop manager to work with it that can match the reliability of OpenBSD? >>> >>> I tried to load Fluxbox and was disappointed with it. It had several >>> menubuttons for application that were not yet installed. >>> >>> Any help would be very much appreciated, I feel trapped and it sounds weird >>> to say this but I am really a bit depressed about the idea of heading back >>> to Windows.
Re: Seeking GUI refuge
Have you considered HTML5 + CSS? Seriously. On Friday, May 24, 2013, ag@gmail wrote: > Have you considered a thought that XFCE may be easily customizable? The > non-existing program entries can be removed and the UI customized to your > liking? > > From what you describe it doesn't seem you require pretty graphics. I > would suggest trying out the light window managers. Customizing a window > manager to your liking is pretty straightforward with the light variants > (not gnome and kde - these are SAKs - Swiss Army Knives). You may possibly > find one that exactly matches the job... > > -ag > > -- > sent via 100% recycled electrons from my mobile command center. > > On May 24, 2013, at 5:39 PM, "Patrick Mc(avery" < > spell_gooder_...@spellingbeewinnars.org > wrote: > > > Hi Marti > > > > Thanks so much for your rapid and helpful response. > > > > I will still consider Mac OSX but it's just that it is the worst of two > worlds for me. Labs use Windows only. If I ship something that works on > windows, I don't have to swim against the current with this topic. I am > willing to swim for free software but OSX is not free either :( > > -Patrick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 13-05-24 06:59 PM, Marti Martinez wrote: > >> Gnome isn't bad on OpenBSD, but depending on what you don't like about > >> linux, that may not live up to your expectations. > >> > >> Frankly, though, as an almost life-long Windows user both personally > >> and professionally, if I had GUI concerns I'd seriously consider > >> whether OSX was a viable option rather than Windows. With that said, I > >> wouldn't target either platform for X11. > >> > >> On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Patrick Mc(avery > >> > wrote: > >>> Hi Everyone > >>> > >>> My name is Patrick, this is my first post here. > >>> > >>> I switched my primary computer from Windows to Linux about 9 years ago. > >>> > >>> I service scientific instruments. About 12 years ago I became aware of > the > >>> brutal conditions scientific software is sold under. I have been slowly > >>> writing my own application to work with these instruments, it's taken > a long > >>> time because I have had to learn to code. > >>> > >>> I had always planed on deploying on Linux. > >>> > >>> While about 7 out of the 9 years with Linux have been good, the > graphical > >>> experience on Linux has plummeted for me. I don't really want to send > >>> prospective customers to Linux any more. I am fearing that Windows may > end > >>> up being my only option. > >>> > >>> It looks like OpenBSD is all about software correctness and I am sure > it > >>> will be great to work with, in a sort of "back end" way but is there a > >>> desktop manager to work with it that can match the reliability of > OpenBSD? > >>> > >>> I tried to load Fluxbox and was disappointed with it. It had several > >>> menubuttons for application that were not yet installed. > >>> > >>> Any help would be very much appreciated, I feel trapped and it sounds > weird > >>> to say this but I am really a bit depressed about the idea of heading > back > >>> to Windows. > > -- http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk "This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity." -- Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation. "Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory where smoking on the job is permitted." -- Gene Spafford learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30v_g83VHK4
anoyone successfully using tircd on OpenBSD?
I wanted to try tircd so I installed it from packages (-current) and followed the instructions found in the man page and on the tircd home page. However, it looks like I cannot authenticate against Twitter. The irc clients I have tried (xchat, irssi, weechat) complain about: [nick] Unable to login to Twitter with the supplied credentials. Would anyone out there with a working config care to try helping me out? I've tried to do my homework and have spent quite some time on Google trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Regards, Erling
Re: Seeking GUI refuge
On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 06:48:05PM -0400, Patrick Mc(avery wrote: > I tried to load Fluxbox and was disappointed with it. It had several > menubuttons for application that were not yet installed. That's true. Such window managers are user-controllable, unlike what you typically find in Linux. Just a hunch: the excessive number of applications listed is meant to show possibilities and/or prompt the user to configure fluxbox. You can edit the appropriate file /usr/local/share/fluxbox/menu to your own needs. The syntax is clean and simple. Have a look! > Any help would be very much appreciated, I feel trapped and it sounds > weird to say this but I am really a bit depressed about the idea of > heading back to Windows. Personally if I had to use Windows I would just quit using computers. Don't jump! Nicolai
