Re: pflow info on 5.1

2012-07-07 Thread Henning Brauer
* Michael Gale  [2012-07-07 00:26]:
> I have read over the docs but it is not clear if I can run a netflow sensor /
> emitter per interface? If so then on the netflow server I could query by
> sensor. The other thing that came to mind is in the past with a different
> vendor I have setup netflow emitters on a per interface(normally one per
> gateway device still), now pflow does not seem to support that because it is
> determined by pf from my understanding, is that correct?

basically, yes.

> So should I only tag (pflow) on rule sets that are on the external interface
> and make sure it is on the "in" and "out" rule sets?

sounds about right for what you seem to want to achieve.

-- 
Henning Brauer, h...@bsws.de, henn...@openbsd.org
BS Web Services, http://bsws.de, Full-Service ISP
Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services. Dedicated Servers, Root to Fully Managed
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Smtpd.conf(5) %a and %u

2012-07-07 Thread percy piper
Hi all.
Smtpd.conf(5) states that %a expands to the user before alias resolution
and %u after. Is it the other way round? I am probably missing something
but on the latest i386 snap it seems %a and %u do the opposite to what
smtpd.conf(5) claims?
Can anyone clarify?
Many thanks
Percy



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OpenBSD - UEFI Secure Boot

2012-07-07 Thread llemike...@aol.com

Dear ,

I have been considering the implications for BSD and
Linux and any non-MS O/S of the implementation of UEFI
Secure Boot (SB).

As I understand it, ARM devices wishing to receive Win8 cert
are required to enable SB by default and prevent the disabling
of SB.

Meanwhile, x86 devices are supposed to ship with SB enabled
but allow disabling...

For some commentators, the x86 situation has been presented
as MS leaving a back-door for other OSes such as BSD or Linux
etc. i.e. "Don't worry about it"

I think it is, in fact, that MS is seeking to temporarily provide a
back-door for Win XP, Vista and Win7.

As each MS OS reaches end-of-paid-for-support (e.g. XP in 2014)
MS will slowly relax the UEFI SB specification such that the ability to
disable SB will gradually disappear from x86-based devices.

I am surprised that there is so little discussion of this developing
situation on BSD and/or Linux lists because for me, the red lights
are flashing, all bells and hooters are sounding,
"We gotta get out of here!!"

We are potentially talking about the end of BSD (or Linux...) on x86
hardware.

Am I overly pessimistic? Have I missed something?

OR

Am I Jeremiah shouting "There's a flood coming! There's a f**
flood coming, PEOPLE!" while everybody else is roasting sausages
on their barbecues?

Mike



Re: OpenBSD - UEFI Secure Boot

2012-07-07 Thread Theo de Raadt
Be realistic.  Talking about it on misc won't change anything.

>Dear ,
>
>I have been considering the implications for BSD and
>Linux and any non-MS O/S of the implementation of UEFI
>Secure Boot (SB).
>
>As I understand it, ARM devices wishing to receive Win8 cert
>are required to enable SB by default and prevent the disabling
>of SB.
>
>Meanwhile, x86 devices are supposed to ship with SB enabled
>but allow disabling...
>
>For some commentators, the x86 situation has been presented
>as MS leaving a back-door for other OSes such as BSD or Linux
>etc. i.e. "Don't worry about it"
>
>I think it is, in fact, that MS is seeking to temporarily provide a
>back-door for Win XP, Vista and Win7.
>
>As each MS OS reaches end-of-paid-for-support (e.g. XP in 2014)
>MS will slowly relax the UEFI SB specification such that the ability to
>disable SB will gradually disappear from x86-based devices.
>
>I am surprised that there is so little discussion of this developing
>situation on BSD and/or Linux lists because for me, the red lights
>are flashing, all bells and hooters are sounding,
>"We gotta get out of here!!"
>
>We are potentially talking about the end of BSD (or Linux...) on x86
>hardware.
>
>Am I overly pessimistic? Have I missed something?
>
>OR
>
>Am I Jeremiah shouting "There's a flood coming! There's a f**
>flood coming, PEOPLE!" while everybody else is roasting sausages
>on their barbecues?
>
>Mike



Re: authpf bug and solution

2012-07-07 Thread Henning Brauer
* Bahador NazariFard  [2012-06-26 20:35]:
> unfortunately authpf does not delete nat state when user disconnected.

I believe I just committed the fix for this.

-- 
Henning Brauer, h...@bsws.de, henn...@openbsd.org
BS Web Services, http://bsws.de, Full-Service ISP
Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services. Dedicated Servers, Root to Fully Managed
Henning Brauer Consulting, http://henningbrauer.com/



Re: OpenBSD - UEFI Secure Boot

2012-07-07 Thread llemike...@aol.com

T,

A!! Oh Yes
I see what you are doing...

Ah-hahaha, Yes - I agree
Talk is so much puff...

We need to DO...

Time to work on CoreBoot or our own (who else will
do it?) aftermarket BIOS solutions...

Mike's plan:
1) Get EPROM programmer with PLCC adaptor
2) Get surface mount torch
3) Take over the world...

Mike


On 07/07/12 16:05, Theo de Raadt wrote:

Be realistic.  Talking about it on misc won't change anything.


Dear ,

I have been considering the implications for BSD and
Linux and any non-MS O/S of the implementation of UEFI
Secure Boot (SB).

As I understand it, ARM devices wishing to receive Win8 cert
are required to enable SB by default and prevent the disabling
of SB.

Meanwhile, x86 devices are supposed to ship with SB enabled
but allow disabling...

For some commentators, the x86 situation has been presented
as MS leaving a back-door for other OSes such as BSD or Linux
etc. i.e. "Don't worry about it"

I think it is, in fact, that MS is seeking to temporarily provide a
back-door for Win XP, Vista and Win7.

As each MS OS reaches end-of-paid-for-support (e.g. XP in 2014)
MS will slowly relax the UEFI SB specification such that the ability to
disable SB will gradually disappear from x86-based devices.

I am surprised that there is so little discussion of this developing
situation on BSD and/or Linux lists because for me, the red lights
are flashing, all bells and hooters are sounding,
"We gotta get out of here!!"

We are potentially talking about the end of BSD (or Linux...) on x86
hardware.

Am I overly pessimistic? Have I missed something?

OR

Am I Jeremiah shouting "There's a flood coming! There's a f**
flood coming, PEOPLE!" while everybody else is roasting sausages
on their barbecues?

Mike




Re: authpf bug and solution

2012-07-07 Thread Bahador NazariFard
Hi Dear Friendhs
Im sorry I looked for about this problem and its solution. but i couldn't
find any solution.

If you commited the fix how can I access fixed authpf.
Im using OpenBSD 5.1.

On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Henning Brauer  wrote:

> * Bahador NazariFard  [2012-06-26 20:35]:
> > unfortunately authpf does not delete nat state when user disconnected.
>
> I believe I just committed the fix for this.
>
> --
> Henning Brauer, h...@bsws.de, henn...@openbsd.org
> BS Web Services, http://bsws.de, Full-Service ISP
> Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services. Dedicated Servers, Root to Fully
> Managed
> Henning Brauer Consulting, http://henningbrauer.com/



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Re: "Virtualizing" firewalling scenarios in one physical OpenBSD host

2012-07-07 Thread Илья Шипицин
Look at www.fwbuilder.org
It is good. It even has commercial support if you like.

ÓÒÅÄÁ, 4 ÉÀÌÑ 2012 Ç. ÐÏÌØÚÏ×ÁÔÅÌØ C. L. Martinez ÐÉÓÁÌ:

> Hi all,
>
>  I wonder if with OpenBSD is possible to create virtualized firewalled
> implementations of conventional physical topologies and designs such
> as central and remote DMZs (my question has nothing to do with
> virtualization platforms like ESXi/vSphere or Xen or KVM), like for
> example CheckPoint VSX does:
> http://www.checkpoint.com/products/vpn-1-power-vsx/index.html.
>
>  The idea is to configure different security scenarios on a single
> system. Is it possible?? Some example??
>
> Thanks.



Re: authpf bug and solution

2012-07-07 Thread James Hartley
On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Bahador NazariFard <
bahador.nazarif...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you commited the fix how can I access fixed authpf.
> Im using OpenBSD 5.1.
>

 You will need to install -current.



Re: OpenBSD - UEFI Secure Boot

2012-07-07 Thread David Diggles
With all the investment in non MS, mission critical / non portable apps,
in the proprietry world alone, do you really think Microsoft can ever take
over all of i386?  Surely they can only try, and keep on trying, but it is
an unwinnable arms race, and someone is going to be willing to pay for a back
door each time, regardless of what lock downs occur.

On Sat, Jul 07, 2012 at 03:46:50PM +0100, llemike...@aol.com wrote:
> Dear ,
> 
> I have been considering the implications for BSD and
> Linux and any non-MS O/S of the implementation of UEFI
> Secure Boot (SB).
> 
> As I understand it, ARM devices wishing to receive Win8 cert
> are required to enable SB by default and prevent the disabling
> of SB.
> 
> Meanwhile, x86 devices are supposed to ship with SB enabled
> but allow disabling...
> 
> For some commentators, the x86 situation has been presented
> as MS leaving a back-door for other OSes such as BSD or Linux
> etc. i.e. "Don't worry about it"
> 
> I think it is, in fact, that MS is seeking to temporarily provide a
> back-door for Win XP, Vista and Win7.
> 
> As each MS OS reaches end-of-paid-for-support (e.g. XP in 2014)
> MS will slowly relax the UEFI SB specification such that the ability to
> disable SB will gradually disappear from x86-based devices.
> 
> I am surprised that there is so little discussion of this developing
> situation on BSD and/or Linux lists because for me, the red lights
> are flashing, all bells and hooters are sounding,
> "We gotta get out of here!!"
> 
> We are potentially talking about the end of BSD (or Linux...) on x86
> hardware.
> 
> Am I overly pessimistic? Have I missed something?
> 
> OR
> 
> Am I Jeremiah shouting "There's a flood coming! There's a f**
> flood coming, PEOPLE!" while everybody else is roasting sausages
> on their barbecues?
> 
> Mike



Re: 4g (LTE) modem

2012-07-07 Thread Alexei Malinin
Alexei Malinin wrote:
> Hello,
>
> could anybody recommend OpenBSD compatible 4g (LTE) modem?

I tried to use recent "Qualcomm MDM9200" chipset
(http://www.qualcomm.com/media/releases/2010/09/08/qualcomm-now-demonstrating-products-based-lte-tdd-technology)
based "Huawei E392" modem
(http://www.huawei.com/en/about-huawei/newsroom/press-release/hw-093708-lte-card-multi-mode.htm).
Under OpenBSD it is recognized only as CD-ROM :(
I tried to experiment with the modem settings on Windows
but I had no success. Also I could not find any useful
documentation (neither for chipset nor for modem)
for developing modem driver.

Does anyone plan to develop a driver for this modem?..
Ideas?..


--
Alexei Malinin



Re: OpenBSD - UEFI Secure Boot

2012-07-07 Thread Tomas Bodzar
On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 4:46 PM, llemike...@aol.com  wrote:
> Dear ,
>
> I have been considering the implications for BSD and
> Linux and any non-MS O/S of the implementation of UEFI
> Secure Boot (SB).
>
> As I understand it, ARM devices wishing to receive Win8 cert
> are required to enable SB by default and prevent the disabling
> of SB.
>
> Meanwhile, x86 devices are supposed to ship with SB enabled
> but allow disabling...
>
> For some commentators, the x86 situation has been presented
> as MS leaving a back-door for other OSes such as BSD or Linux
> etc. i.e. "Don't worry about it"
>
> I think it is, in fact, that MS is seeking to temporarily provide a
> back-door for Win XP, Vista and Win7.
>
> As each MS OS reaches end-of-paid-for-support (e.g. XP in 2014)
> MS will slowly relax the UEFI SB specification such that the ability to
> disable SB will gradually disappear from x86-based devices.
>
> I am surprised that there is so little discussion of this developing
> situation on BSD and/or Linux lists because for me, the red lights
> are flashing, all bells and hooters are sounding,
> "We gotta get out of here!!"

You are probably not reading misc@ or other forums (not even OpenBSD
specific) too much, right?

http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=133857397722515&w=2 - for example

>
> We are potentially talking about the end of BSD (or Linux...) on x86
> hardware.

No way and typical customers which are not target of OpenBSD will not
care for sure.

>
> Am I overly pessimistic? Have I missed something?

World is trying much worse stuff than UEFI
http://extratorrent.com/article/2263/uk+prime+minister+calls+for+online+porn+ban.html

>
> OR
>
> Am I Jeremiah shouting "There's a flood coming! There's a f**
> flood coming, PEOPLE!" while everybody else is roasting sausages
> on their barbecues?
>
> Mike



Re: 4g (LTE) modem

2012-07-07 Thread Jonathan Gray
On Sat, Jul 07, 2012 at 09:24:50PM +0400, Alexei Malinin wrote:
> Alexei Malinin wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > could anybody recommend OpenBSD compatible 4g (LTE) modem?
> 
> I tried to use recent "Qualcomm MDM9200" chipset
> (http://www.qualcomm.com/media/releases/2010/09/08/qualcomm-now-demonstrating-products-based-lte-tdd-technology)
> based "Huawei E392" modem
> (http://www.huawei.com/en/about-huawei/newsroom/press-release/hw-093708-lte-card-multi-mode.htm).
> Under OpenBSD it is recognized only as CD-ROM :(
> I tried to experiment with the modem settings on Windows
> but I had no success. Also I could not find any useful
> documentation (neither for chipset nor for modem)
> for developing modem driver.
> 
> Does anyone plan to develop a driver for this modem?..
> Ideas?..

Normally the kernel gets rid of these fake storage devices.
What happens if you use the eject command on the cd device?
Can you also include the output of usbdevs -v?



Re: OpenBSD - UEFI Secure Boot

2012-07-07 Thread Bob Beck
On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Tomas Bodzar wrote:

>
> World is trying much worse stuff than UEFI
>
> http://extratorrent.com/article/2263/uk+prime+minister+calls+for+online+porn+ban.html
>
>
>
What? they're going to ban porn? That's it, I'm quitting the internets.



Re: OpenBSD - UEFI Secure Boot

2012-07-07 Thread llemike...@aol.com

Tomas (and David and E.V.R. Else-Body)

Yes - I'd read the thread(s) (Gentoo too..) - but the
ultimate conclusion of much of the discussion is
"buy different hardware".

I bought Betamax (because it was the best)... until...
I bought SAAB (because it was the best)... until...
I bought Amiga (because it was the best)... until...

I don't want to be saying...

I bou.. erm.. got... OpenBSD (because it was the best)...

Mike



On 07/07/12 18:25, Tomas Bodzar wrote:

You are probably not reading misc@ or other forums (not even OpenBSD
specific) too much, right?

http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=133857397722515&w=2  - for example




Re: OpenBSD - UEFI Secure Boot

2012-07-07 Thread Claudio Jeker
On Sat, Jul 07, 2012 at 06:54:31PM +0100, llemike...@aol.com wrote:
> Tomas (and David and E.V.R. Else-Body)
> 
> Yes - I'd read the thread(s) (Gentoo too..) - but the
> ultimate conclusion of much of the discussion is
> "buy different hardware".
> 
> I bought Betamax (because it was the best)... until...
> I bought SAAB (because it was the best)... until...
> I bought Amiga (because it was the best)... until...
> 
> I don't want to be saying...
> 
> I bou.. erm.. got... OpenBSD (because it was the best)...
> 

Wrong. OpenBSD does not only run on legacy archs like i386.
I guess some people would like to see i386 follow the dodo^Wmac68k.

-- 
:wq Claudio



Re: OpenBSD - UEFI Secure Boot

2012-07-07 Thread Chris Bennett
On Sat, Jul 07, 2012 at 06:54:31PM +0100, llemike...@aol.com wrote:
> I bought Betamax (because it was the best)... until...
> I bought SAAB (because it was the best)... until...
> I bought Amiga (because it was the best)... until...
> 
> I don't want to be saying...
> 
> I bou.. erm.. got... OpenBSD (because it was the best)...
> 

I'd be happy to sell you a freshly burned copy of OpenBSD.
That way you COULD say you bought OpenBSD.

$100 USD price.
That buys you a $70 donation and $30 bucks for me.
Everybody happy!   :)



Re: OpenBSD - UEFI Secure Boot

2012-07-07 Thread Tomas Bodzar
On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 7:49 PM, Bob Beck  wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Tomas Bodzar 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> World is trying much worse stuff than UEFI
>>
>> http://extratorrent.com/article/2263/uk+prime+minister+calls+for+online+porn+ban.html
>>
>>
>
> What? they're going to ban porn? That's it, I'm quitting the internets.

It's not about ban, it's about asumption that everyone who has high
bandwidth wants that because of porn and they want to protect children
so you must sign that that you want that because of porn hehehe

But was meant as one of actual stupid ideas which they try to
implement like UEFI.



Kernel panic on -current

2012-07-07 Thread Hugo Osvaldo Barrera
Hi,

I appolagize for the not-so-descriptive subject, I've really no idea
that the exact issue was.

I upgraded to -current this afternoon, and a while ago my server stopped
responding remotely.  I had a look at it, and I the kernel has printed
the following:

First bad
/: bad dir ino 11 at offset 0: mangled entry
panic: bad dir
Stopped at  Debugger+0x5:   leave   
RUN AT LEAST 'trace' AND 'ps' AND INCLUDE OUTPUT WHEN REPORTING THIS PANIC!
DO NOT EVEN BOTHER REPORTING THIS WITHOUT INCLUDING THAT INFORMATION!

Here goes my dmesg, which I noticed had logged the output of trace and
ps as well.
As I said, I've no idea what caused this crash, so I hope that this
information helps in some way.  Otherwise, what else should I attach
next time?

Oh, I should mention that I disable mpbios, since it seems to have
issues on this particular server.


OpenBSD 5.2-beta (GENERIC) #281: Sun Jul  1 23:12:44 MDT 2012
dera...@amd64.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC
real mem = 535756800 (510MB)
avail mem = 499220480 (476MB)
mainbus0 at root
bios0 at mainbus0: SMBIOS rev. 2.4 @ 0xfbd3f (10 entries)
bios0: vendor QEMU version "QEMU" date 01/01/2007
acpi0 at bios0: rev 0
acpi0: sleep states S3 S4 S5
acpi0: tables DSDT FACP APIC
acpi0: wakeup devices
acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits
acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat
acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0)
acpicpu0 at acpi0
mpbios at bios0 not configured
vmt0 at mainbus0
vmware: open failed, eax=564d5868, ecx=001e, edx=5658
vmt0: failed to open backdoor RPC channel (TCLO protocol)
cpu0 at mainbus0: (uniprocessor)
cpu0: QEMU Virtual CPU version 0.9.1, 2602.32 MHz
cpu0: 
FPU,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SSE3,NXE,LONG
cpu0: 64KB 64b/line 2-way I-cache, 64KB 64b/line 2-way D-cache, 512KB 64b/line 
16-way L2 cache
cpu0: ITLB 255 4KB entries direct-mapped, 255 4MB entries direct-mapped
cpu0: DTLB 255 4KB entries direct-mapped, 255 4MB entries direct-mapped
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Intel 82441FX" rev 0x02
pcib0 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 "Intel 82371SB ISA" rev 0x00
pciide0 at pci0 dev 1 function 1 "Intel 82371SB IDE" rev 0x00: DMA, channel 0 
wired to compatibility, channel 1 wired to compatibility
wd0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 0: 
wd0: 16-sector PIO, LBA48, 10240MB, 20971520 sectors
atapiscsi0 at pciide0 channel 0 drive 1
scsibus0 at atapiscsi0: 2 targets
cd0 at scsibus0 targ 0 lun 0:  ATAPI 5/cdrom removable
wd0(pciide0:0:0): using PIO mode 0, DMA mode 2
cd0(pciide0:0:1): using PIO mode 0
atapiscsi1 at pciide0 channel 1 drive 0
scsibus1 at atapiscsi1: 2 targets
cd1 at scsibus1 targ 0 lun 0:  ATAPI 5/cdrom removable
cd1(pciide0:1:0): using PIO mode 0
uhci0 at pci0 dev 1 function 2 "Intel 82371SB USB" rev 0x01: irq 11
piixpm0 at pci0 dev 1 function 3 "Intel 82371AB Power" rev 0x03: irq 10
iic0 at piixpm0
iic0: addr 0x4c 48=00 words 00= 01= 02= 03= 04= 05= 
06= 07=
iic0: addr 0x4e 48=00 words 00= 01= 02= 03= 04= 05= 
06= 07=
vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 "Cirrus Logic CL-GD5446" rev 0x00
wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation)
wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation)
em0 at pci0 dev 3 function 0 "Intel PRO/1000MT (82540EM)" rev 0x03: irq 11, 
address 52:54:00:27:24:25
"Qumranet Virtio Memory" rev 0x00 at pci0 dev 4 function 0 not configured
"Qumranet Virtio Console" rev 0x00 at pci0 dev 5 function 0 not configured
isa0 at pcib0
isadma0 at isa0
com0 at isa0 port 0x3f8/8 irq 4: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo
com0: probed fifo depth: 0 bytes
pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5
pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot)
pckbc0: using irq 1 for kbd slot
wskbd0 at pckbd0: console keyboard, using wsdisplay0
pms0 at pckbc0 (aux slot)
pckbc0: using irq 12 for aux slot
wsmouse0 at pms0 mux 0
pcppi0 at isa0 port 0x61
spkr0 at pcppi0
fdc0 at isa0 port 0x3f0/6 irq 6 drq 2
fd0 at fdc0 drive 0: density unknown
fd1 at fdc0 drive 1: density unknown
usb0 at uhci0: USB revision 1.0
uhub0 at usb0 "Intel UHCI root hub" rev 1.00/1.00 addr 1
nvram: invalid checksum
mtrr: Pentium Pro MTRR support
vscsi0 at root
scsibus2 at vscsi0: 256 targets
softraid0 at root
scsibus3 at softraid0: 256 targets
root on wd0a swap on wd0b dump on wd0b
clock: unknown CMOS layout
First bad
/: bad dir ino 11 at offset 0: mangled entry
panic: bad dir
Stopped at  Debugger+0x5:   leave   
RUN AT LEAST 'trace' AND 'ps' AND INCLUDE OUTPUT WHEN REPORTING THIS PANIC!
DO NOT EVEN BOTHER REPORTING THIS WITHOUT INCLUDING THAT INFORMATION!
ddb> Debugger() at Debugger+0x5
panic() at panic+0xe4
ufs_makedirentry() at ufs_makedirentry
ufs_lookup() at ufs_lookup+0x6cd
VOP_LOOKUP() at VOP_LOOKUP+0x2c
vfs_lookup() at vfs_lookup+0x271
namei() at namei+0x21c
dofstatat() at dofstatat+0x73
syscall() at syscall+0x165
--- syscall (number 293) ---
end of kernel
end trace frame: 0x20c5e8e78, count: -9
acpi_pdirpa+0x41e5a2:
ddb>PID   PPID   PGRPUID  

Moratoria mutui per il sostegno delle famiglie in difficoltà ( Prossima scadenza 30 luglio )

2012-07-07 Thread Nunzia
Per le famiglie italiane in difficoltà economica è oggi possibile
richiedere la moratoria dei mutui.

La misura frutto dell’accordo tra l’Associazione bancaria italiana (ABI)
e le associazioni dei consumatori

 consente ai mutuatari di ricevere un aiuto della banca creditrice.

Grazie alla moratoria è possibile sospendere fino a 12 mesi la rata del
mutuo.

Per informazioni clicca qui



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