Re: TO upgrade, or to change platforms entirelyWWYDWhat would you do?

[Nickus de Vos]

Hi Steve
Firstly when talking Mac Pro I presume you are referring to the cheese grater, 
since that’s the only Mac Pro which is upgradable, the newer trashcan isn’t at 
all upgradable when it comes to drives and RAM.
The last cheese grater is already older than your current 2012 Mac Mini, 
without some hacking the last model cheese grater can for example not run High 
Sierra where your Mini is still officially supported. The other problem with 
the cheese grater is the wifi and bluetooth on it which can’t be upgraded very 
easily, same with the USB-2.

I saw a post on another platform the other day of a guy who upgraded a cheese 
grater, it took him a lot of tinkering and hacking, a lot of searching and 
expensive Ebay shopping, but eventually he could upgrade the wifi and bluetooth 
to more current versions, he installed USB-3 and he installed PCI SSD storage. 
The entire modding process eventually costed him more than what he bought the 
second hand machine for, and in the end he commented that it was probably not 
the smartest money he ever spent.

I own a late 2013 iMac which probably has much the same internals as your Mini, 
also 1 TB drive, also 8 GB RAM, I gave this machine of mine some new life the 
other day. The iMac can’t be opened up easily to upgrade the internals and I 
wasn’t willing to pay Apple to do it. I rather decided to get a external USB-3 
SSD to be used as the boot drive. I installed High Sierra on the external SSD 
along with all my other stuff and now I use the internal 1 TB HDD only as mass 
storage. The iMac runs like a dream, it’s nice and fast again, almost as fast 
as my 2015 MBP with 256 GB SSD and double the RAM.

If you are very confident in your abilities or have a friend who can do it, 
then I suggest you install a SSD in your Mini to be used as your boot drive, 
512 GB even 256 GB should do it. I can’t remember off hand, but if I recall 
doing this on the 2012 Mini is still quite easy, I doubt any special tools are 
needed for example.
Next while you are at it and if you have the budget, upgrade the RAM to 16 GB, 
just read up and make double certain you get the correct RAM.

As for your external drive with your samples and time machine backup, have you 
got a backup of all samples and another time machine drive or is this your only 
copy of this data?
I suggest you get a second external hard drive of the same or bigger size and 
make a clone of your external drive so that you have 2 copies of that data. I 
also suggest you partition the drives to split your sample library and time 
machine to two partitions.

If you can’t install a SSD in to your Mini then do what I did, use a external 
SSD as your boot drive,, but SSD is definately the way to go here. Another 
advantage of doing it this way is that you can very easily reuse that external 
SSD for something else should you stop using your Mini one day.

Before you purchase anything, maybe wait till WWDC next month, a new Mac Mini 
model is long overdue and I hope we will see one announced then.

Nick 
> On 11 May 2018, at 03:50, Steve Matzura  wrote:
> 
> I have a quad core i7 late 2012 Mac Mini with the stock 5400rpm 1TB drive and 
> 8GB RAM. I use it exclusively for music reation and education (mainly my own) 
> with Logic and Pro Tools. My sample libraries are stored on an external 
> MyBook 3TB drive which is also shared with time Machine. Consequently, once 
> per hour, there's a little gligtchiness sometimes if I happen to be playing 
> something that draws heavily on sampled content when TM runs. Granted, it 
> only lasts for a second or two because the machine does not require much in 
> the way of backups, as very little on it changes.
> 
> 
> So I'm starting to think it's time for an upgrade. But what to upgrade?
> 
> 
> Clearly more memory would help, as well as replacing the mechanical drive 
> with a solid-state drive. There's also the main hardware, which surely can't 
> be upgradable to the next operating system forever. I ran into this with a 
> 2009 iMac when Sierra was released. For disk replacement, Crucial has a 2TB 
> drive for five hundred dollars--that's just twenty-five cents US per gig--a 
> very nice price. I'm quite fond of Crucial solid-state disks, as I already 
> own two other smaller units used in other machine. I figure if I changed out 
> the 1TB rotating drive for a 2TB SSD and moved all my sample libraries to 
> that drive, that would also eliminate the USB 3 slow-down (if there really is 
> one, which I'm not convinced there is), then that USB drive would be used 
> exclusively for Time Machine backups.
> 
> 
> Another option is to purchase an empty Mac Pro and put the Crucial 2TB drive 
> and lots of memory into it, then set the rest of it up as above. But how long 
> will a Mac Pro last before it, too, can no longer be upgraded? With the price 
> of Apple hardware ever increasing, will I eventually get priced out of 
> upgrading?
> 
> 
> Everybody says it's bad practice to mix sys

Apple Watch series 2 and Airpods

[Krister Ekstrom]

Hi,
I have an Apple watch series two and in the manual they claim that you should 
be able to use them with an apple watch when you don’t use it with the iPhone, 
however, that doesn’t seem to be the case.
When i stop using the iPhone and try to use the watch, no sound comes from the 
Airpods.
Is theresomething i could do to have this work or is it a bug somewhere?
Apple said in the manual that if the watch and the phone are connected to the 
same apple id which they are, then pairing should happen seamlessly, if not, 
what do i do?
/Krister

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

RE: Accessible mail apps for iPad

[Simon Fogarty]

Or like myself you could look at Outlook for IOS which still isnt’ perfect but 
it works
And yeah I can’t say I’m overly impressed with the mail app on the iPad.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Friday, 11 May 2018 7:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Accessible mail apps for iPad

Hi,

What sort of problems are you having with the native app?  Do you have multiple 
accounts?  Are you using a external keyboard, or regular VO gestures?  Are you 
in Portrait or Landscape or it just doesn't seem to make a difference?

Normally, when in Portrait mode, the iPad behaves similar to the iPhone.  When 
in Landscape mode, the iPad splits into containers.  There's usually three 
containers, the Mailboxes, the messages and the content of the selected 
message.  This is fairly easy to handle with an external keyboard, but I 
certainly could understand your confusion/frustration in Landscape with no 
keyboard.

If you use G Mail, you may wish to look at Google's G Mail client.  I believe 
it works with other accounts as well, but I don't know for sure.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On May 10, 2018, at 12:38, Daniel McGee 
mailto:danielmcgee...@icloud.com>> wrote:

Hi all

Normally, I would be happy with using the default mail app and be done with it. 
So, I don't know if it's the user interface or error on my part but I'm really 
not liking how the mail app works with VO with the iPad layout.

So unless anyone can tell me if I'm using the iPad wrongly with the mail app or 
give suggestions for alternative mail apps for the iPad. This would be greatly 
appreciated.

Thanks

Daniel

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit http

Re: Accessible mail apps for iPad

[Daniel McGee]

Hi Simon, out of interest, what is it about the iPad that you are not impressed 
with? 

For me, its when you are viewing a message. 

Once I have entered the message screen, when I perform the scrub gesture to go 
back, VoiceOver makes the bong sound and stays at the message screen. 
Continuing with the same theme, if I use the scrub gesture again on the 
messages list, I again get taken back to the message window that I was viewing. 

I guess, its this message window that pops up when I am trying to get out of it 
once I am done with reading emails which is confusing me.I also use my iPad in 
portrait. 


> On 11 May 2018, at 12:14, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Or like myself you could look at Outlook for IOS which still isnt’ perfect 
> but it works
> And yeah I can’t say I’m overly impressed with the mail app on the iPad.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
> Sent: Friday, 11 May 2018 7:06 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Accessible mail apps for iPad
>  
> Hi,
>  
> What sort of problems are you having with the native app?  Do you have 
> multiple accounts?  Are you using a external keyboard, or regular VO 
> gestures?  Are you in Portrait or Landscape or it just doesn't seem to make a 
> difference?
>  
> Normally, when in Portrait mode, the iPad behaves similar to the iPhone.  
> When in Landscape mode, the iPad splits into containers.  There's usually 
> three containers, the Mailboxes, the messages and the content of the selected 
> message.  This is fairly easy to handle with an external keyboard, but I 
> certainly could understand your confusion/frustration in Landscape with no 
> keyboard.
>  
> If you use G Mail, you may wish to look at Google's G Mail client.  I believe 
> it works with other accounts as well, but I don't know for sure.
>  
> Later...
>  
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>  
> On May 10, 2018, at 12:38, Daniel McGee  wrote:
>  
> Hi all
> 
> Normally, I would be happy with using the default mail app and be done with 
> it. So, I don't know if it's the user interface or error on my part but I'm 
> really not liking how the mail app works with VO with the iPad layout.
> 
> So unless anyone can tell me if I'm using the iPad wrongly with the mail app 
> or give suggestions for alternative mail apps for the iPad. This would be 
> greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Daniel 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>  
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Qu

Re: TO upgrade, or to change platforms entirelyWWYDWhat would you do?

[Jonathan Cohn]

If your only issue is that Time Machine is causing a burp because both it and 
your music tools are using the same disk I can think of two possibilities to 
extend the life of your machine.

1. Add an additional hard disk dedicated to TimeMachine. I am not sure what 
efficiencies there are for USB to USB disk copy so it might be that this would 
not work great either. Certainly if the computer has two internal USB 3 hubs 
and your applications end up doing significant I/O it would make sense to try 
and have your disks on separate USB hubs. You can get an idea about this by 
opening the USB row in utilities System Info application. The second panel 
should have a tree view of your USB devices and if there is more than one at 
the first level definitely find out about moving resources to reduce I/O on the 
USB hubs.

The second Option I was thinking of is to just turn off TimeMachine while doing 
your editing. 

In any case, if you are thinking of moving to Windows or Linux, and you are 
making your living with sound then, make sure to have enough time to not only 
learn the new platform but also transition all your tools to it. It does seem 
that several blind people are quite comfortable with sound production on the 
PC. I believe Jonathan Mozen even has a book about it.
  
> On May 10, 2018, at 9:50 PM, Steve Matzura  wrote:
> 
> I have a quad core i7 late 2012 Mac Mini with the stock 5400rpm 1TB drive and 
> 8GB RAM. I use it exclusively for music reation and education (mainly my own) 
> with Logic and Pro Tools. My sample libraries are stored on an external 
> MyBook 3TB drive which is also shared with time Machine. Consequently, once 
> per hour, there's a little gligtchiness sometimes if I happen to be playing 
> something that draws heavily on sampled content when TM runs. Granted, it 
> only lasts for a second or two because the machine does not require much in 
> the way of backups, as very little on it changes.
> 
> 
> So I'm starting to think it's time for an upgrade. But what to upgrade?
> 
> 
> Clearly more memory would help, as well as replacing the mechanical drive 
> with a solid-state drive. There's also the main hardware, which surely can't 
> be upgradable to the next operating system forever. I ran into this with a 
> 2009 iMac when Sierra was released. For disk replacement, Crucial has a 2TB 
> drive for five hundred dollars--that's just twenty-five cents US per gig--a 
> very nice price. I'm quite fond of Crucial solid-state disks, as I already 
> own two other smaller units used in other machine. I figure if I changed out 
> the 1TB rotating drive for a 2TB SSD and moved all my sample libraries to 
> that drive, that would also eliminate the USB 3 slow-down (if there really is 
> one, which I'm not convinced there is), then that USB drive would be used 
> exclusively for Time Machine backups.
> 
> 
> Another option is to purchase an empty Mac Pro and put the Crucial 2TB drive 
> and lots of memory into it, then set the rest of it up as above. But how long 
> will a Mac Pro last before it, too, can no longer be upgraded? With the price 
> of Apple hardware ever increasing, will I eventually get priced out of 
> upgrading?
> 
> 
> Everybody says it's bad practice to mix system and data files on a drive. But 
> if it's a solid-state drive, how could this be bad?
> 
> 
> If I obtain a Mac Pro, which model year has the highest expandability 
> quotient? i.e., which one can I keep the longest and expand the most into the 
> future before it won't be expandable/ upgradable any more, like my old 2009 
> iMac turned out to be when Sierra was released.
> 
> So, what would you do?
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than 

Re: TO upgrade, or to change platforms entirely - WWYDWhat would you do?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Remember that the seven year life cycle is just for MacOS update compatibility. 
 That is, the computer may, and likely will, last longer.  I have numerous Mac 
Pros from 2009 still running flawlessly.  They're stuck at El Capitan, but they 
work great and there's no performance issues.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On May 10, 2018, at 21:23, Steve Matzura  wrote:

It does. I just might go for that 2017 model. For the price, it sure looks like 
one gets a lot. I didn't see anything on the specs about how many and what 
kinds of ports are on it. Will have to look it over again more closely.

On 5/10/2018 11:08 PM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote:
> Hi Steve. Every Mac has a seven year life cycle. Therefore, your 2012 Mac 
> will still be good until at least next year. With that being said, if you do 
> go the Mac Pro route, I'd suggest that you buy the newest one you can afford. 
> So if you bought, let's say a 2016 model, that machine would still be good 
> until around 2023. Hope that helps with your decision.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My New MacBook Air
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
> 
>> On May 10, 2018, at 9:59 PM, Steve Matzura > > wrote:
>> 
>> Great advice, yes, but would that not be about six times the price? I just 
>> saw this one from 2017 that looks frightfully good. 
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fast-8-CORE-Mac-Pro-OSX-2017-2-8GHz-32GB-Ram-2TB-HD-1GB-HD6870-VIDEO-Warranty/173158663830?hash=item28510f8696:g:ldUAAOSwyXNaRSlf
>>  
>> 
>>  Forget the software. The 2T SSD, eight cores and 32GB memory are worth the 
>> price all by themselves.
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/10/2018 10:28 PM, Maria Reyes wrote:
>>> I would wait until the new Mac Pro comes out next year.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On May 10, 2018, at 9:50 PM, Steve Matzura >>> > wrote:
 
 I have a quad core i7 late 2012 Mac Mini with the stock 5400rpm 1TB drive 
 and 8GB RAM. I use it exclusively for music reation and education (mainly 
 my own) with Logic and Pro Tools. My sample libraries are stored on an 
 external MyBook 3TB drive which is also shared with time Machine. 
 Consequently, once per hour, there's a little gligtchiness sometimes if I 
 happen to be playing something that draws heavily on sampled content when 
 TM runs. Granted, it only lasts for a second or two because the machine 
 does not require much in the way of backups, as very little on it changes.
 
 
 So I'm starting to think it's time for an upgrade. But what to upgrade?
 
 
 Clearly more memory would help, as well as replacing the mechanical drive 
 with a solid-state drive. There's also the main hardware, which surely 
 can't be upgradable to the next operating system forever. I ran into this 
 with a 2009 iMac when Sierra was released. For disk replacement, Crucial 
 has a 2TB drive for five hundred dollars--that's just twenty-five cents US 
 per gig--a very nice price. I'm quite fond of Crucial solid-state disks, 
 as I already own two other smaller units used in other machine. I figure 
 if I changed out the 1TB rotating drive for a 2TB SSD and moved all my 
 sample libraries to that drive, that would also eliminate the USB 3 
 slow-down (if there really is one, which I'm not convinced there is), then 
 that USB drive would be used exclusively for Time Machine backups.
 
 
 Another option is to purchase an empty Mac Pro and put the Crucial 2TB 
 drive and lots of memory into it, then set the rest of it up as above. But 
 how long will a Mac Pro last before it, too, can no longer be upgraded? 
 With the price of Apple hardware ever increasing, will I eventually get 
 priced out of upgrading?
 
 
 Everybody says it's bad practice to mix system and data files on a drive. 
 But if it's a solid-state drive, how could this be bad?
 
 
 If I obtain a Mac Pro, which model year has the highest expandability 
 quotient? i.e., which one can I keep the longest and expand the most into 
 the future before it won't be expandable/ upgradable any more, like my old 
 2009 iMac turned out to be when Sierra was released.
 
 So, what would you do?
 
 -- 
 The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is 

Phone recommendations

[Jonathan Cohn]

Hello,

Well my iPhone 6 s that was treating me quite well after getting the battery 
replaced took a swim yesterday, so I won’t be able to wait until October to buy 
a new phone.

Anybody out there have good arguments to get the iPhone 8 over the iPhone  7? I 
see my vendor has some refurbished iPhone 7  for about two hundred dollars less 
than a new iPhone 7, that is tempting except they have only a 90 day warranty.

Also in the past, I had troubles getting iPhones purchased via anybody but my 
Mobile carrier because I am on a “Special” ex-employee rate. I expect that now 
most iPhones are sold at cost that I could also go to the Apple Store. Are 
their leases or iPhone for life programs generally better than the carriers?

Certainly with an Apple store just two blocks from my office, it is I know I 
can get reasonable support there.

Thanks in advance for any feedback,

Jonathan Cohn 

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Captchas

[E.T.]

   Is anyone using Rumola? How well does it work? What does it cost to 
use? I took a quick look but did not find that information. It probably 
cannot handle the captchas that uses pictures. Is there anything for 
that type?


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Apple Watch series 2 and Airpods

[Alex Hall]

I have no idea how to get this to work automatically, but you can do it 
manuaally. The AirPods are known by your Watch through iCloud, but to use them, 
you have to select them. Open your control center with a two-finger swipe up on 
any watch face, find the AirPlay button, double tap it, and choose AirPods. To 
stop using them, do the same but choose Apple Watch, or just start using them 
on another device by selecting them on that device.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 11, 2018, at 07:03, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I have an Apple watch series two and in the manual they claim that you should 
> be able to use them with an apple watch when you don’t use it with the 
> iPhone, however, that doesn’t seem to be the case.
> When i stop using the iPhone and try to use the watch, no sound comes from 
> the Airpods.
> Is theresomething i could do to have this work or is it a bug somewhere?
> Apple said in the manual that if the watch and the phone are connected to the 
> same apple id which they are, then pairing should happen seamlessly, if not, 
> what do i do?
> /Krister
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

RE: TO upgrade, or to change platforms entirelyWWYDWhat would you do?

[Simon Fogarty]

To upgrade your only going to have 2 hardware options 
Tht machine will take 2 8gig sticks of ram for 16GB total.

And 
As for the HDD  if you have a 1tb drive in there now,
To replace the hdd with and ssd at the same 1tb drive size you are going to 
have both a large cost and a nice bit of work taking the old drive out,

 The ssd alone might give you nice visible performance changes so I'd check on 
that update first,

If you then still want to update ram then you can.

As for the OS well it's in my thoughts not going to change a lot at this point


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Steve Matzura
Sent: Friday, 11 May 2018 1:50 PM
To: Mac Visionaries 
Subject: TO upgrade, or to change platforms entirelyWWYDWhat would you do?

I have a quad core i7 late 2012 Mac Mini with the stock 5400rpm 1TB drive and 
8GB RAM. I use it exclusively for music reation and education (mainly my own) 
with Logic and Pro Tools. My sample libraries are stored on an external MyBook 
3TB drive which is also shared with time Machine. 
Consequently, once per hour, there's a little gligtchiness sometimes if I 
happen to be playing something that draws heavily on sampled content when TM 
runs. Granted, it only lasts for a second or two because the machine does not 
require much in the way of backups, as very little on it changes.


So I'm starting to think it's time for an upgrade. But what to upgrade?


Clearly more memory would help, as well as replacing the mechanical drive with 
a solid-state drive. There's also the main hardware, which surely can't be 
upgradable to the next operating system forever. I ran into this with a 2009 
iMac when Sierra was released. For disk replacement, Crucial has a 2TB drive 
for five hundred dollars--that's just twenty-five cents US per gig--a very nice 
price. I'm quite fond of Crucial solid-state disks, as I already own two other 
smaller units used in other machine. I figure if I changed out the 1TB rotating 
drive for a 2TB SSD and moved all my sample libraries to that drive, that would 
also eliminate the USB 3 slow-down (if there really is one, which I'm not 
convinced there is), then that USB drive would be used exclusively for Time 
Machine backups.


Another option is to purchase an empty Mac Pro and put the Crucial 2TB drive 
and lots of memory into it, then set the rest of it up as above. 
But how long will a Mac Pro last before it, too, can no longer be upgraded? 
With the price of Apple hardware ever increasing, will I eventually get priced 
out of upgrading?


Everybody says it's bad practice to mix system and data files on a drive. But 
if it's a solid-state drive, how could this be bad?


If I obtain a Mac Pro, which model year has the highest expandability 
quotient? i.e., which one can I keep the longest and expand the most 
into the future before it won't be expandable/ upgradable any more, like 
my old 2009 iMac turned out to be when Sierra was released.

So, what would you do?

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, v

Re: Captchas

[Phil Halton]

If you mean captures on your Mac, and you have an iPhone, then what I do is to 
use the Be My Eyes app and have a sighted person read the caption for me on 
screen. It’s great.

Sent from my IPhone


> On May 11, 2018, at 11:51 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Is anyone using Rumola? How well does it work? What does it cost to use? I 
> took a quick look but did not find that information. It probably cannot 
> handle the captchas that uses pictures. Is there anything for that type?
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Captchas

[Karen Lewellen]

I Imagine  the reference is to the image verification tests some sites use 
instead  of the non graphical intuitive captchas.

Karen



On Fri, 11 May 2018, Phil Halton wrote:


If you mean captures on your Mac, and you have an iPhone, then what I do is to 
use the Be My Eyes app and have a sighted person read the caption for me on 
screen. It’s great.

Sent from my IPhone



On May 11, 2018, at 11:51 AM, E.T.  wrote:

  Is anyone using Rumola? How well does it work? What does it cost to use? I 
took a quick look but did not find that information. It probably cannot handle 
the captchas that uses pictures. Is there anything for that type?

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Captchas

[E.T.]

   Phil, yes, captchas. Its an acronym for "completely automated public 
Turing test to tell computers and humans apart". The issue apparently is 
that what you refer to is going away in favor of the ones that have 6 
pictures. For example, you are asked to select all pictures that have 
street signs. Maybe Be My Eyes can handle that, have you tried it?


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 5/11/2018 5:22 PM, Phil Halton wrote:

If you mean captures on your Mac, and you have an iPhone, then what I do is to 
use the Be My Eyes app and have a sighted person read the caption for me on 
screen. It’s great.

Sent from my IPhone



On May 11, 2018, at 11:51 AM, E.T.  wrote:

   Is anyone using Rumola? How well does it work? What does it cost to use? I 
took a quick look but did not find that information. It probably cannot handle 
the captchas that uses pictures. Is there anything for that type?

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.




--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Phone recommendations

[Jessica Moss]

I currently still use the 7+ and love it to death.
> On May 11, 2018, at 10:51 AM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Well my iPhone 6 s that was treating me quite well after getting the battery 
> replaced took a swim yesterday, so I won’t be able to wait until October to 
> buy a new phone.
> 
> Anybody out there have good arguments to get the iPhone 8 over the iPhone  7? 
> I see my vendor has some refurbished iPhone 7  for about two hundred dollars 
> less than a new iPhone 7, that is tempting except they have only a 90 day 
> warranty.
> 
> Also in the past, I had troubles getting iPhones purchased via anybody but my 
> Mobile carrier because I am on a “Special” ex-employee rate. I expect that 
> now most iPhones are sold at cost that I could also go to the Apple Store. 
> Are their leases or iPhone for life programs generally better than the 
> carriers?
> 
> Certainly with an Apple store just two blocks from my office, it is I know I 
> can get reasonable support there.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any feedback,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Verification Schemes

[E.T.]

   I've been playing email tag with someone who operates a web site 
that uses the picture captcha for people who sign up.


   We talked about the 2-step verification method where one gets a code 
via text message. He is of the opinion that this isn prone to hacks. He 
chose to use the picture captcha after his site was overwhelmed with 
bots that created thousands of fake accounts. He also mentioned Google 
Authenticator and Authy. Anyone have experience with those?


   Of late I have seen less of the captchas that uses letters and 
numbers and more of the picture captchas. I see the 2-step verification 
still but not as often. Due ti hearing, I've never tried the audio 
challenges but understand they are no better.


   I don't know where this trend will take us but no doubt it will go 
away. What do you all see coming in the future? I am most interested in 
the accessibility angle.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: TO upgrade, or to change platforms entirelyWWYDWhat would you do?

[Steve Matzura]

Jonathan,


No worries about audio and music production on Windows. Got that covered 
with Samplitude.



You gave me a chuckle when you mentioned making my living with sound. I 
haven't been making a living with sound, or anything else for that 
matter, for twelve years now--retired since March, 2006, before which I 
hacked DEC PDP systems, and then OpenVMS, for nearly thirty years. Uncle 
Sam and two pensions are paying me to sit at home and learn all about 
the stuff I wished I had time to learn back when I was working, but are 
way more accessible and fun to use now than they ever were. So maybe 
somebody was saving my best years for me to play with it all when it got 
good and usable.



I think what I'm going to wind up doing is transistorizing my storage 
(upgrading the internal 5400rpm drive to a high-performance 
large-capacity SSD), and at least doubling my RAM. I'll start with the 
disk, which will give me that instrant gratification thing for sure, and 
take my time to shop for memory. When I get the memory in hand, I'll 
make an appointment somewhere to remove and discard the old slow 
mechanical drive and put in the new memory  That'll keep me for years to 
come. Nobody says I have to upgrade the next time Mac OS upgrades.modules.



On 5/11/2018 10:23 AM, Jonathan Cohn wrote:

If your only issue is that Time Machine is causing a burp because both it and 
your music tools are using the same disk I can think of two possibilities to 
extend the life of your machine.

1. Add an additional hard disk dedicated to TimeMachine. I am not sure what 
efficiencies there are for USB to USB disk copy so it might be that this would 
not work great either. Certainly if the computer has two internal USB 3 hubs 
and your applications end up doing significant I/O it would make sense to try 
and have your disks on separate USB hubs. You can get an idea about this by 
opening the USB row in utilities System Info application. The second panel 
should have a tree view of your USB devices and if there is more than one at 
the first level definitely find out about moving resources to reduce I/O on the 
USB hubs.

The second Option I was thinking of is to just turn off TimeMachine while doing 
your editing.

In any case, if you are thinking of moving to Windows or Linux, and you are 
making your living with sound then, make sure to have enough time to not only 
learn the new platform but also transition all your tools to it. It does seem 
that several blind people are quite comfortable with sound production on the 
PC. I believe Jonathan Mozen even has a book about it.
   

On May 10, 2018, at 9:50 PM, Steve Matzura  wrote:

I have a quad core i7 late 2012 Mac Mini with the stock 5400rpm 1TB drive and 
8GB RAM. I use it exclusively for music reation and education (mainly my own) 
with Logic and Pro Tools. My sample libraries are stored on an external MyBook 
3TB drive which is also shared with time Machine. Consequently, once per hour, 
there's a little gligtchiness sometimes if I happen to be playing something 
that draws heavily on sampled content when TM runs. Granted, it only lasts for 
a second or two because the machine does not require much in the way of 
backups, as very little on it changes.


So I'm starting to think it's time for an upgrade. But what to upgrade?


Clearly more memory would help, as well as replacing the mechanical drive with 
a solid-state drive. There's also the main hardware, which surely can't be 
upgradable to the next operating system forever. I ran into this with a 2009 
iMac when Sierra was released. For disk replacement, Crucial has a 2TB drive 
for five hundred dollars--that's just twenty-five cents US per gig--a very nice 
price. I'm quite fond of Crucial solid-state disks, as I already own two other 
smaller units used in other machine. I figure if I changed out the 1TB rotating 
drive for a 2TB SSD and moved all my sample libraries to that drive, that would 
also eliminate the USB 3 slow-down (if there really is one, which I'm not 
convinced there is), then that USB drive would be used exclusively for Time 
Machine backups.


Another option is to purchase an empty Mac Pro and put the Crucial 2TB drive 
and lots of memory into it, then set the rest of it up as above. But how long 
will a Mac Pro last before it, too, can no longer be upgraded? With the price 
of Apple hardware ever increasing, will I eventually get priced out of 
upgrading?


Everybody says it's bad practice to mix system and data files on a drive. But 
if it's a solid-state drive, how could this be bad?


If I obtain a Mac Pro, which model year has the highest expandability quotient? 
i.e., which one can I keep the longest and expand the most into the future 
before it won't be expandable/ upgradable any more, like my old 2009 iMac 
turned out to be when Sierra was released.

So, what would you do?

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any question

Re: TO upgrade, or to change platforms entirelyWWYDWhat would you do?

[Steve Matzura]

Agreed on all points.


On 5/11/2018 6:13 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

To upgrade your only going to have 2 hardware options
Tht machine will take 2 8gig sticks of ram for 16GB total.

And
As for the HDD  if you have a 1tb drive in there now,
To replace the hdd with and ssd at the same 1tb drive size you are going to 
have both a large cost and a nice bit of work taking the old drive out,

  The ssd alone might give you nice visible performance changes so I'd check on 
that update first,

If you then still want to update ram then you can.

As for the OS well it's in my thoughts not going to change a lot at this point


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Steve Matzura
Sent: Friday, 11 May 2018 1:50 PM
To: Mac Visionaries 
Subject: TO upgrade, or to change platforms entirelyWWYDWhat would you do?

I have a quad core i7 late 2012 Mac Mini with the stock 5400rpm 1TB drive and 
8GB RAM. I use it exclusively for music reation and education (mainly my own) 
with Logic and Pro Tools. My sample libraries are stored on an external MyBook 
3TB drive which is also shared with time Machine.
Consequently, once per hour, there's a little gligtchiness sometimes if I 
happen to be playing something that draws heavily on sampled content when TM 
runs. Granted, it only lasts for a second or two because the machine does not 
require much in the way of backups, as very little on it changes.


So I'm starting to think it's time for an upgrade. But what to upgrade?


Clearly more memory would help, as well as replacing the mechanical drive with 
a solid-state drive. There's also the main hardware, which surely can't be 
upgradable to the next operating system forever. I ran into this with a 2009 
iMac when Sierra was released. For disk replacement, Crucial has a 2TB drive 
for five hundred dollars--that's just twenty-five cents US per gig--a very nice 
price. I'm quite fond of Crucial solid-state disks, as I already own two other 
smaller units used in other machine. I figure if I changed out the 1TB rotating 
drive for a 2TB SSD and moved all my sample libraries to that drive, that would 
also eliminate the USB 3 slow-down (if there really is one, which I'm not 
convinced there is), then that USB drive would be used exclusively for Time 
Machine backups.


Another option is to purchase an empty Mac Pro and put the Crucial 2TB drive 
and lots of memory into it, then set the rest of it up as above.
But how long will a Mac Pro last before it, too, can no longer be upgraded? 
With the price of Apple hardware ever increasing, will I eventually get priced 
out of upgrading?


Everybody says it's bad practice to mix system and data files on a drive. But 
if it's a solid-state drive, how could this be bad?


If I obtain a Mac Pro, which model year has the highest expandability
quotient? i.e., which one can I keep the longest and expand the most
into the future before it won't be expandable/ upgradable any more, like
my old 2009 iMac turned out to be when Sierra was released.

So, what would you do?



--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: TO upgrade, or to change platforms entirelyWWYDWhat would you do?

[Steve Matzura]

Nick,


If a new Mini is on the near horizon, then I can hold my breath and see 
what it's like when it arrives. But a disk upgrade could always be 
useful, even if I buy the new Mini later.



Re upgrading, memory and SSD are the highest of priorities. I already 
have my eyes on solutions for the disk. I don't think I'd want to waste 
one of four USB ports for a boot device, though, except if it was just 
for short-term testing and setup. I'm thinking of paying Apple the 
dollars, about a hundred fifty of them, to swap the drive and double the 
memory for me (plus parts, of course). I just have to obtain the correct 
sticks, as you say. Any advanced info before searching for info thereon 
would be most appreciated.



Re the external MyBook with TM backups and samples on it, the samples 
and other music production library stuff is all 100% duplicated on a 
drive on a Windows machine, and even if that breaks, it can all be 
re-downloaded from the sites from which it was purchased. Once the SSD 
is installed in the Mini, that data gets moved there, giving the whole 
3TB MyBook drive over to TM.


About the Mac Pro, I think I'm off that idea for good, and not just 
because of your explanation. Yes, the ones I'm seeing on eBay are 2013 
build models, therefore not upgradable. But with eight cores and 32GB 
memory, I don't think any upgrading would even be necessary, with the 
exception of swapping the internal drive it comes with for an SSD. What 
kind of killed the whole idea for me is that I think these machines only 
have SATA2 interfaces.


So let's talk more about booting from a USB-connected SSD. The 
specifications really say it all. Have you any recommendations for an 
adapter, caddy or enclosure for a SATA3 SSD? I don't really need one of 
those big three-and-a-half-inch enclosures, and I've never met one I 
really liked anyway. When I buy the SSD, I'll of course buy the 
two-and-a-half-inch form factor unit that will fit into the Mini, but 
I'd like to set it up and test with it before taking the Mini in for the 
permanent transplant, which is why I'd want the enclosure or adapter.


Other than that, I don't think there are any other considerations to 
ponder before starting to order parts and make appointments to have the 
surgery done.


On 5/11/2018 4:11 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:

Hi Steve
Firstly when talking Mac Pro I presume you are referring to the cheese grater, 
since that’s the only Mac Pro which is upgradable, the newer trashcan isn’t at 
all upgradable when it comes to drives and RAM.
The last cheese grater is already older than your current 2012 Mac Mini, 
without some hacking the last model cheese grater can for example not run High 
Sierra where your Mini is still officially supported. The other problem with 
the cheese grater is the wifi and bluetooth on it which can’t be upgraded very 
easily, same with the USB-2.

I saw a post on another platform the other day of a guy who upgraded a cheese 
grater, it took him a lot of tinkering and hacking, a lot of searching and 
expensive Ebay shopping, but eventually he could upgrade the wifi and bluetooth 
to more current versions, he installed USB-3 and he installed PCI SSD storage. 
The entire modding process eventually costed him more than what he bought the 
second hand machine for, and in the end he commented that it was probably not 
the smartest money he ever spent.

I own a late 2013 iMac which probably has much the same internals as your Mini, 
also 1 TB drive, also 8 GB RAM, I gave this machine of mine some new life the 
other day. The iMac can’t be opened up easily to upgrade the internals and I 
wasn’t willing to pay Apple to do it. I rather decided to get a external USB-3 
SSD to be used as the boot drive. I installed High Sierra on the external SSD 
along with all my other stuff and now I use the internal 1 TB HDD only as mass 
storage. The iMac runs like a dream, it’s nice and fast again, almost as fast 
as my 2015 MBP with 256 GB SSD and double the RAM.

If you are very confident in your abilities or have a friend who can do it, 
then I suggest you install a SSD in your Mini to be used as your boot drive, 
512 GB even 256 GB should do it. I can’t remember off hand, but if I recall 
doing this on the 2012 Mini is still quite easy, I doubt any special tools are 
needed for example.
Next while you are at it and if you have the budget, upgrade the RAM to 16 GB, 
just read up and make double certain you get the correct RAM.

As for your external drive with your samples and time machine backup, have you 
got a backup of all samples and another time machine drive or is this your only 
copy of this data?
I suggest you get a second external hard drive of the same or bigger size and 
make a clone of your external drive so that you have 2 copies of that data. I 
also suggest you partition the drives to split your sample library and time 
machine to two partitions.

If you can’t install a SSD in to your Mini then do what I did, use a exte

RE: Apple Watch series 2 and Airpods

[Simon Fogarty]

It's a known issue and is being worked on,

 If you have the most up to date IOS version possibly it's because I'm running 
the public beta for my phone I do get my watch through my earpods 

I can switch between the devices by going to Bluetooth and clicking on the pods,
 Then have to do the same thing to switch back in some cases.


I do sometimes have the pods pick up the watch or my iPad pro automatically but 
its not always 

So it's nothing you do just a current issue with the earpods and the IOS 
versions.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Krister Ekstrom
Sent: Friday, 11 May 2018 11:03 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Apple Watch series 2 and Airpods

Hi,
I have an Apple watch series two and in the manual they claim that you should 
be able to use them with an apple watch when you don’t use it with the iPhone, 
however, that doesn’t seem to be the case.
When i stop using the iPhone and try to use the watch, no sound comes from the 
Airpods.
Is theresomething i could do to have this work or is it a bug somewhere?
Apple said in the manual that if the watch and the phone are connected to the 
same apple id which they are, then pairing should happen seamlessly, if not, 
what do i do?
/Krister

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

RE: Accessible mail apps for iPad

[Simon Fogarty]

I think mostly it’s the different layout or presentation of the mail app 
screens.

I’m so use to how much phone shows mail in that app that the ipads interface is 
different.

I do also use outlook for IOS
In some cases I find that better to use but again it’s not outlook on the 
computer.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Daniel McGee
Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2018 12:41 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Accessible mail apps for iPad

Hi Simon, out of interest, what is it about the iPad that you are not impressed 
with?

For me, its when you are viewing a message.

Once I have entered the message screen, when I perform the scrub gesture to go 
back, VoiceOver makes the bong sound and stays at the message screen. 
Continuing with the same theme, if I use the scrub gesture again on the 
messages list, I again get taken back to the message window that I was viewing.

I guess, its this message window that pops up when I am trying to get out of it 
once I am done with reading emails which is confusing me.I also use my iPad in 
portrait.


On 11 May 2018, at 12:14, Simon Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
Or like myself you could look at Outlook for IOS which still isnt’ perfect but 
it works
And yeah I can’t say I’m overly impressed with the mail app on the iPad.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> On 
Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Friday, 11 May 2018 7:06 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Accessible mail apps for iPad

Hi,

What sort of problems are you having with the native app?  Do you have multiple 
accounts?  Are you using a external keyboard, or regular VO gestures?  Are you 
in Portrait or Landscape or it just doesn't seem to make a difference?

Normally, when in Portrait mode, the iPad behaves similar to the iPhone.  When 
in Landscape mode, the iPad splits into containers.  There's usually three 
containers, the Mailboxes, the messages and the content of the selected 
message.  This is fairly easy to handle with an external keyboard, but I 
certainly could understand your confusion/frustration in Landscape with no 
keyboard.

If you use G Mail, you may wish to look at Google's G Mail client.  I believe 
it works with other accounts as well, but I don't know for sure.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Apple Teacher
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On May 10, 2018, at 12:38, Daniel McGee 
mailto:danielmcgee...@icloud.com>> wrote:

Hi all

Normally, I would be happy with using the default mail app and be done with it. 
So, I don't know if it's the user interface or error on my part but I'm really 
not liking how the mail app works with VO with the iPad layout.

So unless anyone can tell me if I'm using the iPad wrongly with the mail app or 
give suggestions for alternative mail apps for the iPad. This would be greatly 
appreciated.

Thanks

Daniel

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can 
reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegro

RE: Phone recommendations

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Jonathan,

Simple to me,

The 8 or 8+ will have a slightly longer life than the 7 does and the storage 
capacity is slightly more in the 8 range than that of the 7 now.

I know it's more money but I'd go 8 myself.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2018 2:52 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Phone recommendations

Hello,

Well my iPhone 6 s that was treating me quite well after getting the battery 
replaced took a swim yesterday, so I won’t be able to wait until October to buy 
a new phone.

Anybody out there have good arguments to get the iPhone 8 over the iPhone  7? I 
see my vendor has some refurbished iPhone 7  for about two hundred dollars less 
than a new iPhone 7, that is tempting except they have only a 90 day warranty.

Also in the past, I had troubles getting iPhones purchased via anybody but my 
Mobile carrier because I am on a “Special” ex-employee rate. I expect that now 
most iPhones are sold at cost that I could also go to the Apple Store. Are 
their leases or iPhone for life programs generally better than the carriers?

Certainly with an Apple store just two blocks from my office, it is I know I 
can get reasonable support there.

Thanks in advance for any feedback,

Jonathan Cohn 

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

RE: TO upgrade, or to change platforms entirelyWWYDWhat would you do?

[Simon Fogarty]

Just remember that the new minis are pre configured so updating isn't possible 
now days.

 The 2012 is the last version of the mini that I believed would allow updating 
of ram and harddrives.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Steve Matzura
Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2018 1:51 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: TO upgrade, or to change platforms entirelyWWYDWhat would you do?

Nick,


If a new Mini is on the near horizon, then I can hold my breath and see what 
it's like when it arrives. But a disk upgrade could always be useful, even if I 
buy the new Mini later.


Re upgrading, memory and SSD are the highest of priorities. I already have my 
eyes on solutions for the disk. I don't think I'd want to waste one of four USB 
ports for a boot device, though, except if it was just for short-term testing 
and setup. I'm thinking of paying Apple the dollars, about a hundred fifty of 
them, to swap the drive and double the memory for me (plus parts, of course). I 
just have to obtain the correct sticks, as you say. Any advanced info before 
searching for info thereon would be most appreciated.


Re the external MyBook with TM backups and samples on it, the samples and other 
music production library stuff is all 100% duplicated on a drive on a Windows 
machine, and even if that breaks, it can all be re-downloaded from the sites 
from which it was purchased. Once the SSD is installed in the Mini, that data 
gets moved there, giving the whole 3TB MyBook drive over to TM.

About the Mac Pro, I think I'm off that idea for good, and not just because of 
your explanation. Yes, the ones I'm seeing on eBay are 2013 build models, 
therefore not upgradable. But with eight cores and 32GB memory, I don't think 
any upgrading would even be necessary, with the exception of swapping the 
internal drive it comes with for an SSD. What kind of killed the whole idea for 
me is that I think these machines only have SATA2 interfaces.

So let's talk more about booting from a USB-connected SSD. The specifications 
really say it all. Have you any recommendations for an adapter, caddy or 
enclosure for a SATA3 SSD? I don't really need one of those big 
three-and-a-half-inch enclosures, and I've never met one I really liked anyway. 
When I buy the SSD, I'll of course buy the two-and-a-half-inch form factor unit 
that will fit into the Mini, but I'd like to set it up and test with it before 
taking the Mini in for the permanent transplant, which is why I'd want the 
enclosure or adapter.

Other than that, I don't think there are any other considerations to ponder 
before starting to order parts and make appointments to have the surgery done.

On 5/11/2018 4:11 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:
> Hi Steve
> Firstly when talking Mac Pro I presume you are referring to the cheese 
> grater, since that’s the only Mac Pro which is upgradable, the newer trashcan 
> isn’t at all upgradable when it comes to drives and RAM.
> The last cheese grater is already older than your current 2012 Mac Mini, 
> without some hacking the last model cheese grater can for example not run 
> High Sierra where your Mini is still officially supported. The other problem 
> with the cheese grater is the wifi and bluetooth on it which can’t be 
> upgraded very easily, same with the USB-2.
>
> I saw a post on another platform the other day of a guy who upgraded a cheese 
> grater, it took him a lot of tinkering and hacking, a lot of searching and 
> expensive Ebay shopping, but eventually he could upgrade the wifi and 
> bluetooth to more current versions, he installed USB-3 and he installed PCI 
> SSD storage. The entire modding process eventually costed him more than what 
> he bought the second hand machine for, and in the end he commented that it 
> was probably not the smartest money he ever spent.
>
> I own a late 2013 iMac which probably has much the same internals as your 
> Mini, also 1 TB drive, also 8 GB RAM, I gave this machine of mine some new 
> life the other day. The iMac can’t be opened up easily to upgrade the 
> internals and I wasn’t willing to pay Apple to do it. I rather decided to get 
> a external USB-3 SSD to be used as the boot drive. I installed High Sierra on 
> the external SSD along with all my other stuff and now I use the internal 1 
> TB HDD only as mass storage. The iMac runs like a dream, it’s nice and fast 
> again, almost as fast as my 2015 MBP with 256 GB SSD and double the RAM.
>
> If you are very confident in your abilities or have a friend who can do it, 
> then I suggest you install a SSD in your Mini to be used as your boot drive, 
> 512 GB even 256 GB should do it. I can’t remember off hand, but if I recall 
> doing this on the 2012 Mini is still quite easy, I doubt any special tools 
> are needed for example.
> Next while you are at it and if you have the budget, upgrade the RAM to 16 
> GB, just read up and make double certain you get the correct RAM.
>
> As for your externa

Re: TO upgrade, or to change platforms entirelyWWYDWhat would you do?

[Steve Matzura]

The new Mini is out, or at least the info about it is? Disappointing to 
hear it's a black-box afair, unupgradable. I'm definitely keeping my 
2012 model.



On 5/11/2018 11:18 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

Just remember that the new minis are pre configured so updating isn't possible 
now days.

  The 2012 is the last version of the mini that I believed would allow updating 
of ram and harddrives.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Steve Matzura
Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2018 1:51 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: TO upgrade, or to change platforms entirelyWWYDWhat would you do?

Nick,


If a new Mini is on the near horizon, then I can hold my breath and see what 
it's like when it arrives. But a disk upgrade could always be useful, even if I 
buy the new Mini later.


Re upgrading, memory and SSD are the highest of priorities. I already have my 
eyes on solutions for the disk. I don't think I'd want to waste one of four USB 
ports for a boot device, though, except if it was just for short-term testing 
and setup. I'm thinking of paying Apple the dollars, about a hundred fifty of 
them, to swap the drive and double the memory for me (plus parts, of course). I 
just have to obtain the correct sticks, as you say. Any advanced info before 
searching for info thereon would be most appreciated.


Re the external MyBook with TM backups and samples on it, the samples and other 
music production library stuff is all 100% duplicated on a drive on a Windows 
machine, and even if that breaks, it can all be re-downloaded from the sites 
from which it was purchased. Once the SSD is installed in the Mini, that data 
gets moved there, giving the whole 3TB MyBook drive over to TM.

About the Mac Pro, I think I'm off that idea for good, and not just because of 
your explanation. Yes, the ones I'm seeing on eBay are 2013 build models, 
therefore not upgradable. But with eight cores and 32GB memory, I don't think 
any upgrading would even be necessary, with the exception of swapping the 
internal drive it comes with for an SSD. What kind of killed the whole idea for 
me is that I think these machines only have SATA2 interfaces.

So let's talk more about booting from a USB-connected SSD. The specifications 
really say it all. Have you any recommendations for an adapter, caddy or 
enclosure for a SATA3 SSD? I don't really need one of those big 
three-and-a-half-inch enclosures, and I've never met one I really liked anyway. 
When I buy the SSD, I'll of course buy the two-and-a-half-inch form factor unit 
that will fit into the Mini, but I'd like to set it up and test with it before 
taking the Mini in for the permanent transplant, which is why I'd want the 
enclosure or adapter.

Other than that, I don't think there are any other considerations to ponder 
before starting to order parts and make appointments to have the surgery done.

On 5/11/2018 4:11 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:

Hi Steve
Firstly when talking Mac Pro I presume you are referring to the cheese grater, 
since that’s the only Mac Pro which is upgradable, the newer trashcan isn’t at 
all upgradable when it comes to drives and RAM.
The last cheese grater is already older than your current 2012 Mac Mini, 
without some hacking the last model cheese grater can for example not run High 
Sierra where your Mini is still officially supported. The other problem with 
the cheese grater is the wifi and bluetooth on it which can’t be upgraded very 
easily, same with the USB-2.

I saw a post on another platform the other day of a guy who upgraded a cheese 
grater, it took him a lot of tinkering and hacking, a lot of searching and 
expensive Ebay shopping, but eventually he could upgrade the wifi and bluetooth 
to more current versions, he installed USB-3 and he installed PCI SSD storage. 
The entire modding process eventually costed him more than what he bought the 
second hand machine for, and in the end he commented that it was probably not 
the smartest money he ever spent.

I own a late 2013 iMac which probably has much the same internals as your Mini, 
also 1 TB drive, also 8 GB RAM, I gave this machine of mine some new life the 
other day. The iMac can’t be opened up easily to upgrade the internals and I 
wasn’t willing to pay Apple to do it. I rather decided to get a external USB-3 
SSD to be used as the boot drive. I installed High Sierra on the external SSD 
along with all my other stuff and now I use the internal 1 TB HDD only as mass 
storage. The iMac runs like a dream, it’s nice and fast again, almost as fast 
as my 2015 MBP with 256 GB SSD and double the RAM.

If you are very confident in your abilities or have a friend who can do it, 
then I suggest you install a SSD in your Mini to be used as your boot drive, 
512 GB even 256 GB should do it. I can’t remember off hand, but if I recall 
doing this on the 2012 Mini is still quite easy, I doubt any special tools are 
needed for example.
Next while you are at it 

Re: Verification Schemes

[Karen Lewellen]

The web access initiative arm of w3c leans towards things like math 
problems because  the other types tend to create barriers of some kind. 

From  cognitive to cultural to language  etc.
Honnypots as well, those with fields saying this field intentionally left 
blank, or  please leave this field blank etc.
Speaking  only for myself the ones that involve text messages can present 
access barriers as well.

Kare



On Fri, 11 May 2018, E.T. wrote:

  I've been playing email tag with someone who operates a web site that uses 
the picture captcha for people who sign up.


  We talked about the 2-step verification method where one gets a code via 
text message. He is of the opinion that this isn prone to hacks. He chose to 
use the picture captcha after his site was overwhelmed with bots that created 
thousands of fake accounts. He also mentioned Google Authenticator and Authy. 
Anyone have experience with those?


  Of late I have seen less of the captchas that uses letters and numbers and 
more of the picture captchas. I see the 2-step verification still but not as 
often. Due ti hearing, I've never tried the audio challenges but understand 
they are no better.


  I don't know where this trend will take us but no doubt it will go away. 
What do you all see coming in the future? I am most interested in the 
accessibility angle.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com


The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Accessible mail apps for iPad

[Maria Reyes]

Hi, 
I think the iPad splits the mail into 2 separate things. So your message list 
would be on the left side for example and the message you're viewing is on the 
right. What works for me is when you are in full screen mode (you should see 
inbox back button) is to double tap the button and I'm taken back to my 
messages list. Yes I would also use Outlook for iOS. I tried an app called 
Spark and it doesn't seem to be accessible. As for the Gmail app, it does allow 
other accounts, but I don't like having to go into every single thread in order 
to mark them as read. they should put in a rotor action where you can mark the 
message as read like the mail app. 

Sent from my sprint iPhone X!!!

> On May 11, 2018, at 11:09 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> I think mostly it’s the different layout or presentation of the mail app 
> screens.
>  
> I’m so use to how much phone shows mail in that app that the ipads interface 
> is different.
>  
> I do also use outlook for IOS
> In some cases I find that better to use but again it’s not outlook on the 
> computer.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Daniel McGee
> Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2018 12:41 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Accessible mail apps for iPad
>  
> Hi Simon, out of interest, what is it about the iPad that you are not 
> impressed with? 
>  
> For me, its when you are viewing a message. 
>  
> Once I have entered the message screen, when I perform the scrub gesture to 
> go back, VoiceOver makes the bong sound and stays at the message screen. 
> Continuing with the same theme, if I use the scrub gesture again on the 
> messages list, I again get taken back to the message window that I was 
> viewing. 
>  
> I guess, its this message window that pops up when I am trying to get out of 
> it once I am done with reading emails which is confusing me.I also use my 
> iPad in portrait. 
>  
> 
> On 11 May 2018, at 12:14, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Or like myself you could look at Outlook for IOS which still isnt’ perfect 
> but it works
> And yeah I can’t say I’m overly impressed with the mail app on the iPad.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On 
> Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
> Sent: Friday, 11 May 2018 7:06 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Accessible mail apps for iPad
>  
> Hi,
>  
> What sort of problems are you having with the native app?  Do you have 
> multiple accounts?  Are you using a external keyboard, or regular VO 
> gestures?  Are you in Portrait or Landscape or it just doesn't seem to make a 
> difference?
>  
> Normally, when in Portrait mode, the iPad behaves similar to the iPhone.  
> When in Landscape mode, the iPad splits into containers.  There's usually 
> three containers, the Mailboxes, the messages and the content of the selected 
> message.  This is fairly easy to handle with an external keyboard, but I 
> certainly could understand your confusion/frustration in Landscape with no 
> keyboard.
>  
> If you use G Mail, you may wish to look at Google's G Mail client.  I believe 
> it works with other accounts as well, but I don't know for sure.
>  
> Later...
>  
> Tim Kilburn
> Apple Teacher
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>  
> On May 10, 2018, at 12:38, Daniel McGee  wrote:
>  
> Hi all
> 
> Normally, I would be happy with using the default mail app and be done with 
> it. So, I don't know if it's the user interface or error on my part but I'm 
> really not liking how the mail app works with VO with the iPad layout.
> 
> So unless anyone can tell me if I'm using the iPad wrongly with the mail app 
> or give suggestions for alternative mail apps for the iPad. This would be 
> greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Daniel 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
> caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>  
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a m

Re: Verification Schemes

[E.T.]

   I have seen the math type a couple times. But if its true (and I 
think it is likely) that bots can do OCR its no better than letters and 
numbers.


   I do not see using 2 step verification via texts more difficult than 
captchas.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 5/11/2018 9:02 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
The web access initiative arm of w3c leans towards things like math 
problems because  the other types tend to create barriers of some kind. 
From  cognitive to cultural to language  etc.
Honnypots as well, those with fields saying this field intentionally 
left blank, or  please leave this field blank etc.
Speaking  only for myself the ones that involve text messages can 
present access barriers as well.

Kare



On Fri, 11 May 2018, E.T. wrote:

  I've been playing email tag with someone who operates a web site 
that uses the picture captcha for people who sign up.


  We talked about the 2-step verification method where one gets a code 
via text message. He is of the opinion that this isn prone to hacks. 
He chose to use the picture captcha after his site was overwhelmed 
with bots that created thousands of fake accounts. He also mentioned 
Google Authenticator and Authy. Anyone have experience with those?


  Of late I have seen less of the captchas that uses letters and 
numbers and more of the picture captchas. I see the 2-step 
verification still but not as often. Due ti hearing, I've never tried 
the audio challenges but understand they are no better.


  I don't know where this trend will take us but no doubt it will go 
away. What do you all see coming in the future? I am most interested 
in the accessibility angle.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
Visionaries list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, 
or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact 
the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach 
mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach 
Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com


The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.




--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Verification Schemes

[Karen Lewellen]

Well you are assuming that the text message itself  used in the two step 
factor  is inclusive.  Second, the risk involved in providing the

 phone number from a privacy standpoint.
The honeypot fields seem to be the most bot proof, although I cannot 
recall at the moment how the math options avoid bot-ishness.



On Fri, 11 May 2018, E.T. wrote:

  I have seen the math type a couple times. But if its true (and I think it 
is likely) that bots can do OCR its no better than letters and numbers.


  I do not see using 2 step verification via texts more difficult than 
captchas.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 5/11/2018 9:02 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

 The web access initiative arm of w3c leans towards things like math
 problems because  the other types tend to create barriers of some kind.
 From  cognitive to cultural to language  etc.
 Honnypots as well, those with fields saying this field intentionally left
 blank, or  please leave this field blank etc.
 Speaking  only for myself the ones that involve text messages can present
 access barriers as well.
 Kare



 On Fri, 11 May 2018, E.T. wrote:

>    I've been playing email tag with someone who operates a web site that 
>  uses the picture captcha for people who sign up.
> 
>    We talked about the 2-step verification method where one gets a code 
>  via text message. He is of the opinion that this isn prone to hacks. He 
>  chose to use the picture captcha after his site was overwhelmed with 
>  bots that created thousands of fake accounts. He also mentioned Google 
>  Authenticator and Authy. Anyone have experience with those?
> 
>    Of late I have seen less of the captchas that uses letters and 
>  numbers and more of the picture captchas. I see the 2-step verification 
>  still but not as often. Due ti hearing, I've never tried the audio 
>  challenges but understand they are no better.
> 
>    I don't know where this trend will take us but no doubt it will go 
>  away. What do you all see coming in the future? I am most interested in 
>  the accessibility angle.
> 
>  From E.T.'s Keyboard...

>    ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>  Many believe that we have been visited
>  in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>  -- 
>  The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>  Visionaries list.
> 
>  If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>  if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>  owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
>  Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
>  at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
>  caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
>  The archives for this list can be searched at:

>  http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>  --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>  Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>  To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>  an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

>  To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>  Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>  For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> 


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com


The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Verification Schemes

[E.T.]

   If you want to register for any reason on a web site, you are going 
to have to provide information. As for supplying phone numbers, I am 
sure you know that when one sets up the text message app, one elects to 
use phone number and/or email address. Just the fact that one accesses 
the Internet opens you up to attack.


   No, what is different about math as opposed to distorted letters and 
numbers? If its true that some bots can use OCR, these captchas are 
equally vulnerable.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 5/11/2018 9:39 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

honeypot fields


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: TO upgrade, or to change platforms entirelyWWYDWhat would you do?

[lenron brown]

Hate that you can no longer upgrade.

On 5/11/18, Steve Matzura  wrote:
> The new Mini is out, or at least the info about it is? Disappointing to
> hear it's a black-box afair, unupgradable. I'm definitely keeping my
> 2012 model.
>
>
> On 5/11/2018 11:18 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:
>> Just remember that the new minis are pre configured so updating isn't
>> possible now days.
>>
>>   The 2012 is the last version of the mini that I believed would allow
>> updating of ram and harddrives.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  On
>> Behalf Of Steve Matzura
>> Sent: Saturday, 12 May 2018 1:51 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: TO upgrade, or to change platforms entirelyWWYDWhat would you
>> do?
>>
>> Nick,
>>
>>
>> If a new Mini is on the near horizon, then I can hold my breath and see
>> what it's like when it arrives. But a disk upgrade could always be useful,
>> even if I buy the new Mini later.
>>
>>
>> Re upgrading, memory and SSD are the highest of priorities. I already have
>> my eyes on solutions for the disk. I don't think I'd want to waste one of
>> four USB ports for a boot device, though, except if it was just for
>> short-term testing and setup. I'm thinking of paying Apple the dollars,
>> about a hundred fifty of them, to swap the drive and double the memory for
>> me (plus parts, of course). I just have to obtain the correct sticks, as
>> you say. Any advanced info before searching for info thereon would be most
>> appreciated.
>>
>>
>> Re the external MyBook with TM backups and samples on it, the samples and
>> other music production library stuff is all 100% duplicated on a drive on
>> a Windows machine, and even if that breaks, it can all be re-downloaded
>> from the sites from which it was purchased. Once the SSD is installed in
>> the Mini, that data gets moved there, giving the whole 3TB MyBook drive
>> over to TM.
>>
>> About the Mac Pro, I think I'm off that idea for good, and not just
>> because of your explanation. Yes, the ones I'm seeing on eBay are 2013
>> build models, therefore not upgradable. But with eight cores and 32GB
>> memory, I don't think any upgrading would even be necessary, with the
>> exception of swapping the internal drive it comes with for an SSD. What
>> kind of killed the whole idea for me is that I think these machines only
>> have SATA2 interfaces.
>>
>> So let's talk more about booting from a USB-connected SSD. The
>> specifications really say it all. Have you any recommendations for an
>> adapter, caddy or enclosure for a SATA3 SSD? I don't really need one of
>> those big three-and-a-half-inch enclosures, and I've never met one I
>> really liked anyway. When I buy the SSD, I'll of course buy the
>> two-and-a-half-inch form factor unit that will fit into the Mini, but I'd
>> like to set it up and test with it before taking the Mini in for the
>> permanent transplant, which is why I'd want the enclosure or adapter.
>>
>> Other than that, I don't think there are any other considerations to
>> ponder before starting to order parts and make appointments to have the
>> surgery done.
>>
>> On 5/11/2018 4:11 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote:
>>> Hi Steve
>>> Firstly when talking Mac Pro I presume you are referring to the cheese
>>> grater, since that’s the only Mac Pro which is upgradable, the newer
>>> trashcan isn’t at all upgradable when it comes to drives and RAM.
>>> The last cheese grater is already older than your current 2012 Mac Mini,
>>> without some hacking the last model cheese grater can for example not run
>>> High Sierra where your Mini is still officially supported. The other
>>> problem with the cheese grater is the wifi and bluetooth on it which
>>> can’t be upgraded very easily, same with the USB-2.
>>>
>>> I saw a post on another platform the other day of a guy who upgraded a
>>> cheese grater, it took him a lot of tinkering and hacking, a lot of
>>> searching and expensive Ebay shopping, but eventually he could upgrade
>>> the wifi and bluetooth to more current versions, he installed USB-3 and
>>> he installed PCI SSD storage. The entire modding process eventually
>>> costed him more than what he bought the second hand machine for, and in
>>> the end he commented that it was probably not the smartest money he ever
>>> spent.
>>>
>>> I own a late 2013 iMac which probably has much the same internals as your
>>> Mini, also 1 TB drive, also 8 GB RAM, I gave this machine of mine some
>>> new life the other day. The iMac can’t be opened up easily to upgrade the
>>> internals and I wasn’t willing to pay Apple to do it. I rather decided to
>>> get a external USB-3 SSD to be used as the boot drive. I installed High
>>> Sierra on the external SSD along with all my other stuff and now I use
>>> the internal 1 TB HDD only as mass storage. The iMac runs like a dream,
>>> it’s nice and fast again, almost as fast as my 2015 MBP with 256 GB SSD
>>> and double the RAM.
>>>
>>> If you are very confident in your abilit

Re: Verification Schemes

[Karen Lewellen]

Again you are not thinking about the population the w3c serves here.
may I direct you to,
www.w3c.org/wai
Some articles there  outline the other suggested options.
And again  you  are making some assumptions that do not, even cannot apply 
to everyone impacted by these kinds of tests.

That they can use text messaging at all for example.
I believe I pointed out that the honeypot  method is considered to be  the 
least likely to discriminate.

Still, at the very least  the math slows down the bots, or in theory.



On Fri, 11 May 2018, E.T. wrote:

  If you want to register for any reason on a web site, you are going to 
have to provide information. As for supplying phone numbers, I am sure you 
know that when one sets up the text message app, one elects to use phone 
number and/or email address. Just the fact that one accesses the Internet 
opens you up to attack.


  No, what is different about math as opposed to distorted letters and 
numbers? If its true that some bots can use OCR, these captchas are equally 
vulnerable.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 5/11/2018 9:39 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

 honeypot fields


--
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.


If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.


Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at: 
mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at 
caraqu...@caraquinn.com


The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.