Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[Krister Ekstrom]

Why do blind people always have to invent worst case scenarios even when the 
phone hasn’t come out yet? Ok, ok before you say anything i was also doubtful 
for many years, wondering how Apple would solve this or that, turned out they 
did and did it good at that.
At tha risk of getting flamed, but hell i’ve been that before and survived, one 
thing the apple user base could learn from the Android one is to show some 
appreciation for what is being done. Every time Talkback comes out, even if its 
features are virtually useless for some, they get praise, but every time 
Voiceover comes out the negative always outways the positive and it lasts for 
months on end. Is Voiceover really *that* bad or am i stupid and unintelligent, 
and if it sucks so hard, why is it that after eight months in Android land i 
left probably not to return again and went back to iOs?
/Krister


> 13 sep. 2017 kl. 08:03 skrev 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries 
> :
> 
> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
> going home could be done with gestures but what about
> starting/quitting VO...?
> 
> Catherine
> 
> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  > wrote:
>> Interesting,
>> 
>> Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print
>> sensor.
>> 
>> Why can’t apple do that also.
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
>> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
>> viph...@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>> 
>> 
>> I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>> Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
>> 
>> [Image removed by sender.]
>> Enlarge> > /
>> This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
>> 
>> The all-new iPhone
>> X>  
>> >
>> is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed with
>> is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a
>> nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front Touch
>> ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many
>> phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead,
>> the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for
>> biometric security.
>> Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts your
>> face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple
>> says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
>> 
>> None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
>> 
>> This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition feature,
>> and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or accurate
>> Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your face.
>> This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint reader,
>> which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
>> 
>> Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, you'll
>> stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on
>> the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
>> "authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the phone and logged
>> in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and it's
>> already on and unlocked. By the time you bring the phone to your face, the
>> unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.
>> 
>> To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your pocket,
>> lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then can can you
>> start the unlock process. The difference is probably one or two seconds, but
>> for something you do 80 times a
>> day> >,
>> having the fastest possible unlock system really matters.
>> [Image removed by sender.]
>> Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system.
>> [Image removed by sender.]
>> Example of how Face ID maps and learns your face.
>> [Image removed by sender.]
>> Demo of Face ID setup.
>> [Image removed by sender.]
>> Animojis, which move to mimic your facial expressions.
>> [Image removed by sender.]
>> 3D mask produced with facial recognition on the iPhone X.
>> [Image removed by sender.]
>> Face ID recognition along with a tap of the side button can au

Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[Raymond Foret Jr]

I’m backing my friend Krister on this point.  Frankly, I am getting just plain 
sick and tired of al these blind people whining that something is going to suck 
or not be usable even before we know all the details of how it works.  Talk 
about a drain on one’s energy.


Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:41 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> Why do blind people always have to invent worst case scenarios even when the 
> phone hasn’t come out yet? Ok, ok before you say anything i was also doubtful 
> for many years, wondering how Apple would solve this or that, turned out they 
> did and did it good at that.
> At tha risk of getting flamed, but hell i’ve been that before and survived, 
> one thing the apple user base could learn from the Android one is to show 
> some appreciation for what is being done. Every time Talkback comes out, even 
> if its features are virtually useless for some, they get praise, but every 
> time Voiceover comes out the negative always outways the positive and it 
> lasts for months on end. Is Voiceover really *that* bad or am i stupid and 
> unintelligent, and if it sucks so hard, why is it that after eight months in 
> Android land i left probably not to return again and went back to iOs?
> /Krister
> 
> 
>> 13 sep. 2017 kl. 08:03 skrev 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries 
>> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>:
>> 
>> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
>> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
>> going home could be done with gestures but what about
>> starting/quitting VO...?
>> 
>> Catherine
>> 
>> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty > > wrote:
>>> Interesting,
>>> 
>>> Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print
>>> sensor.
>>> 
>>> Why can’t apple do that also.
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> ] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
>>> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org ; 
>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ;
>>> viph...@googlegroups.com 
>>> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>>> Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
>>> 
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Enlarge>> > /
>>> This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
>>> 
>>> The all-new iPhone
>>> X>>  
>>> >
>>> is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed with
>>> is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a
>>> nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front Touch
>>> ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many
>>> phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead,
>>> the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for
>>> biometric security.
>>> Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts your
>>> face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple
>>> says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
>>> 
>>> None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
>>> 
>>> This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition feature,
>>> and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or accurate
>>> Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your face.
>>> This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint reader,
>>> which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
>>> 
>>> Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, you'll
>>> stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on
>>> the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
>>> "authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the phone and logged
>>> in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and it's
>>> already on and unlocked. By the time you bring the phone to your face, the
>>> unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.
>>> 
>>> To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your pocket,
>>> lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then can can you
>>> start the unlock process.

Anyone used Youtube to MP3 converter lately?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

Question says it all.  I tried to use it yesterday and was not successful.  The 
cool thing is that they now give you the choice between several different 
conversion types.  The not so cool thing is that I was unable to select an 
output format, so could not convert the video.  Anyone else noticed this?  Does 
anyone have a solution?
TIA,
Donna

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VI people will not be excluded from Face ID for I phone 10.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I have spoken to Apple Accessibility.

They have assured me that Face ID will work with Voice Over so no one needs to 
worry about not being able to use the I phone 10.

I am excited.  I want one of those.

Kawal.

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Re: Anyone used Youtube to MP3 converter lately?

[Ronald van Rhijn]

Hi Donna,

Is this an app or a website?

Ronald
> Op 13 sep. 2017, om 12:25 heeft Donna Goodin  het volgende 
> geschreven:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Question says it all.  I tried to use it yesterday and was not successful.  
> The cool thing is that they now give you the choice between several different 
> conversion types.  The not so cool thing is that I was unable to select an 
> output format, so could not convert the video.  Anyone else noticed this?  
> Does anyone have a solution?
> TIA,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
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> list.
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Face ID Accessibility. Apple offers some answers – Mosen Consulting

[Jonathan Cohn]

I removed some of the lower part of this article but it does answer questions 
that have been asked on list.




> 
> http://mosen.org/face-id-accessibility-apple-offers-some-answers/ 
> 
> 
> Face ID Accessibility. Apple offers some answers
> Jonathan Mosen  13/09/2017
> As discussed in The Blind Side Podcast episode 53,  
> Apple
>  today made a series of hardware announcements.
> 
> Understandably, the announcement that has caused the most social media 
> chatter in the blind community relates to the iPhone X, and it’s new Face ID 
> feature.
> 
> Apple has earned our trust over the years by ensuring that its products are 
> fully accessible from their initial launch, so few observers were in any 
> doubt that Apple would have given thought to the accessibility of this new 
> feature. However, were there limitations of the technology that simply made 
> it a non-starter for some people?
> 
> I wrote to Apple, and quickly received a response to some of my initial 
> questions.
> 
> My questions stem from the fact that I am congenitally blind. My particular 
> eye condition causes my eyes to look small and a little sunken, and they are 
> often closed. Further, I have a form of congenital cataracts. I was curious 
> to know whether Face ID would work for someone like me and others I know with 
> prosthetic eyes, given that during the keynote, Apple indicated that the 
> iPhone X would not unlock unless you gave the phone your attention.
> 
> Apple says the following.
> 
> The iPhone X has been designed with a number of accessibility features to 
> support its use.
> 
> For VoiceOver users, Face ID will prompt you as to how to move your head 
> during set up in order to complete a scan. If you do not want Face ID to 
> require attention, you can open Settings > General > Accessibility, and 
> disable Require Attention for Face ID. This is automatically disabled if you 
> enable VoiceOver during initial set up.
> 
> I also took the opportunity to ask about the new method for toggling 
> accessibility settings. One can’t triple-click the Home button on the iPhone 
> X, because there is no Home button. It appears one triple-clicks the Side 
> button. This button is larger on the iPhone X than previous models of iPhone 
> to reflect the many functions it now performs.
> 
> I would observe that one will have to be careful with this feature, since 
> pressing the same button five times will activate iOS 11’s emergency SOS 
> function, and may, depending on how you’ve configured that feature, make a 
> call to local emergency services.
> 
> I’m impressed that Apple had clearly anticipated someone like me having 
> questions about my ability to use Face ID, and were able to furnish me with 
> such a clear answer.
> 
> How about you? Now that the big reveal is all official, how are you feeling 
> about the new devices, and especially the iPhone X with it’s Face ID?
> 
> Share your thoughts in the comments.
> 


Best wishes,

Jonathan Cohn



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Re: Anyone used Youtube to MP3 converter lately?

[Raymond Foret Jr]

The solution I found is an app called Downie.  Sure, it’s not free, but it does 
let you download videos directly to your Mac.  The reason for the changes you 
noticed is that the court recently ordered a settlement in which youtube was 
involved.  It has something to do with copy right violations but not sure what.


Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 5:25 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Question says it all.  I tried to use it yesterday and was not successful.  
> The cool thing is that they now give you the choice between several different 
> conversion types.  The not so cool thing is that I was unable to select an 
> output format, so could not convert the video.  Anyone else noticed this?  
> Does anyone have a solution?
> TIA,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
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> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
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Re: Face ID Accessibility. Apple offers some answers – Mosen Consulting

[Raymond Foret Jr]

I thought as much.


Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 6:53 AM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> I removed some of the lower part of this article but it does answer questions 
> that have been asked on list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> http://mosen.org/face-id-accessibility-apple-offers-some-answers/ 
>> 
>> 
>> Face ID Accessibility. Apple offers some answers
>> Jonathan Mosen  13/09/2017
>> As discussed in The Blind Side Podcast episode 53,  
>> Apple
>>  today made a series of hardware announcements.
>> 
>> Understandably, the announcement that has caused the most social media 
>> chatter in the blind community relates to the iPhone X, and it’s new Face ID 
>> feature.
>> 
>> Apple has earned our trust over the years by ensuring that its products are 
>> fully accessible from their initial launch, so few observers were in any 
>> doubt that Apple would have given thought to the accessibility of this new 
>> feature. However, were there limitations of the technology that simply made 
>> it a non-starter for some people?
>> 
>> I wrote to Apple, and quickly received a response to some of my initial 
>> questions.
>> 
>> My questions stem from the fact that I am congenitally blind. My particular 
>> eye condition causes my eyes to look small and a little sunken, and they are 
>> often closed. Further, I have a form of congenital cataracts. I was curious 
>> to know whether Face ID would work for someone like me and others I know 
>> with prosthetic eyes, given that during the keynote, Apple indicated that 
>> the iPhone X would not unlock unless you gave the phone your attention.
>> 
>> Apple says the following.
>> 
>> The iPhone X has been designed with a number of accessibility features to 
>> support its use.
>> 
>> For VoiceOver users, Face ID will prompt you as to how to move your head 
>> during set up in order to complete a scan. If you do not want Face ID to 
>> require attention, you can open Settings > General > Accessibility, and 
>> disable Require Attention for Face ID. This is automatically disabled if you 
>> enable VoiceOver during initial set up.
>> 
>> I also took the opportunity to ask about the new method for toggling 
>> accessibility settings. One can’t triple-click the Home button on the iPhone 
>> X, because there is no Home button. It appears one triple-clicks the Side 
>> button. This button is larger on the iPhone X than previous models of iPhone 
>> to reflect the many functions it now performs.
>> 
>> I would observe that one will have to be careful with this feature, since 
>> pressing the same button five times will activate iOS 11’s emergency SOS 
>> function, and may, depending on how you’ve configured that feature, make a 
>> call to local emergency services.
>> 
>> I’m impressed that Apple had clearly anticipated someone like me having 
>> questions about my ability to use Face ID, and were able to furnish me with 
>> such a clear answer.
>> 
>> How about you? Now that the big reveal is all official, how are you feeling 
>> about the new devices, and especially the iPhone X with it’s Face ID?
>> 
>> Share your thoughts in the comments.
>> 
> 
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
> 
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>  
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iPhone Upgrades.

[Jonathan Cohn]

So, I think it is time to upgrade my iPhone 6. Personally, from the press there 
were three items I could make the iPhone 8 more appealing to a blind user than 
the iPhone 7 models that are now significantly less expensive.

1. BlueTOoth 5 instead of BT 4.. What does this actually mean for an end user.
2. Higher speed processor - OK obvious advantage there.
Charge wirelessly. (Does this use power when not in use?)

Any other views as to getting the newer model for somebody that like to upgrade 
phones no more than once every three years.



For those upgrading to the latest gen of phones what caught your appeal other 
than latest and greatest? Does anybody think the iPhone X will be a little like 
the anniversary Macintoshes a showcase of one or two new features in a box to 
make it more expensive.

Take care!


Jonathan Cohn



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Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[lenron brown]

I am sure it will all work fine. Remember there is options. You don't
like the x get the 8 or 8plus. I didn't want to give up my headphone
jack last year so you know what I did? I stuck with my 6s plus. If I
didn't want more storage and if my battery wasn't starting to suck I
could probably do another year. I can get by just fine on other Os so
when one doesn't make me happy I can always go find another phone no
big deal.

On 9/13/17, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
> I’m backing my friend Krister on this point.  Frankly, I am getting just
> plain sick and tired of al these blind people whining that something is
> going to suck or not be usable even before we know all the details of how it
> works.  Talk about a drain on one’s energy.
>
>
> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the
> blind:
>
> Sincerely,
>
> The constantly barefooted Ray
>
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:41 AM, Krister Ekstrom 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Why do blind people always have to invent worst case scenarios even when
>> the phone hasn’t come out yet? Ok, ok before you say anything i was also
>> doubtful for many years, wondering how Apple would solve this or that,
>> turned out they did and did it good at that.
>> At tha risk of getting flamed, but hell i’ve been that before and
>> survived, one thing the apple user base could learn from the Android one
>> is to show some appreciation for what is being done. Every time Talkback
>> comes out, even if its features are virtually useless for some, they get
>> praise, but every time Voiceover comes out the negative always outways the
>> positive and it lasts for months on end. Is Voiceover really *that* bad or
>> am i stupid and unintelligent, and if it sucks so hard, why is it that
>> after eight months in Android land i left probably not to return again and
>> went back to iOs?
>> /Krister
>>
>>
>>> 13 sep. 2017 kl. 08:03 skrev 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries
>>> >> >:
>>>
>>> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
>>> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
>>> going home could be done with gestures but what about
>>> starting/quitting VO...?
>>>
>>> Catherine
>>>
>>> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty >> > wrote:
 Interesting,

 Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger
 print
 sensor.

 Why can’t apple do that also.
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 ] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
 Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
 To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org ;
 macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 ;
 viph...@googlegroups.com 
 Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why


 I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
 Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo

 [Image removed by sender.]
 Enlarge> /
 This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.

 The all-new iPhone
 X>
 is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed
 with
 is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for
 a
 nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front
 Touch
 ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like
 many
 phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely.
 Instead,
 the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature
 for
 biometric security.
 Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts
 your
 face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D.
 Apple
 says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your
 phone.

 None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.

 This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition
 feature,
 and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or
 accurate
 Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your
 face.
 This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint
 reader,
 which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.

 Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good,
 you'll
 stick your hand in your pocket and gri

Re: AnyTrans update lets Android users easily switch to iOS 11 & iPhone 8

[Eric Whitten]

I tried it yesterday, and no dice. I would contact the developer of anytrans 
and see if they can make that app accessible. From reading the description, it 
looks you can by-pas itunes when putting ringtones on your iphone, without 
haveing to go into itunes.   

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Re: Anyone used Youtube to MP3 converter lately?

[Stacey Robinson]

Ray,
Where can I find this program you mentioned?
Peace,  
Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.

mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 6:54 AM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> The solution I found is an app called Downie.  Sure, it’s not free, but it 
> does let you download videos directly to your Mac.  The reason for the 
> changes you noticed is that the court recently ordered a settlement in which 
> youtube was involved.  It has something to do with copy right violations but 
> not sure what.
> 
> 
> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> The constantly barefooted Ray
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 5:25 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Question says it all.  I tried to use it yesterday and was not successful  
>> The cool thing is that they now give you the choice between several 
>> different conversion types.  The not so cool thing is that I was unable to 
>> select an output format, so could not convert the video.  Anyone else 
>> noticed this?  Does anyone have a solution?
>> TIA,
>> Donna
>> 
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>> Visionaries list.
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Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[Mary Otten]

This article was from the mainstream press, not written by a blind person. So 
get off your high horse is folks.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 12:41 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> Why do blind people always have to invent worst case scenarios even when the 
> phone hasn’t come out yet? Ok, ok before you say anything i was also doubtful 
> for many years, wondering how Apple would solve this or that, turned out they 
> did and did it good at that.
> At tha risk of getting flamed, but hell i’ve been that before and survived, 
> one thing the apple user base could learn from the Android one is to show 
> some appreciation for what is being done. Every time Talkback comes out, even 
> if its features are virtually useless for some, they get praise, but every 
> time Voiceover comes out the negative always outways the positive and it 
> lasts for months on end. Is Voiceover really *that* bad or am i stupid and 
> unintelligent, and if it sucks so hard, why is it that after eight months in 
> Android land i left probably not to return again and went back to iOs?
> /Krister
> 
> 
>> 13 sep. 2017 kl. 08:03 skrev 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries 
>> :
>> 
>> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
>> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
>> going home could be done with gestures but what about
>> starting/quitting VO...?
>> 
>> Catherine
>> 
>>> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> Interesting,
>>> 
>>> Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print
>>> sensor.
>>> 
>>> Why can’t apple do that also.
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
>>> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
>>> viph...@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>>> Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
>>> 
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Enlarge /
>>> This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
>>> 
>>> The all-new iPhone
>>> X
>>> is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed with
>>> is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a
>>> nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front Touch
>>> ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many
>>> phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead,
>>> the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for
>>> biometric security.
>>> Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts your
>>> face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple
>>> says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
>>> 
>>> None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
>>> 
>>> This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition feature,
>>> and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or accurate
>>> Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your face.
>>> This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint reader,
>>> which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
>>> 
>>> Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, you'll
>>> stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on
>>> the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
>>> "authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the phone and logged
>>> in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and it's
>>> already on and unlocked. By the time you bring the phone to your face, the
>>> unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.
>>> 
>>> To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your pocket,
>>> lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then can can you
>>> start the unlock process. The difference is probably one or two seconds, but
>>> for something you do 80 times a
>>> day,
>>> having the fastest possible unlock system really matters.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Example of how Face ID maps and learns your face.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Demo of Face ID setup.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Animojis, which move to mimic your facial expressions.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> 3D mask produced with facial recognition on the iPhone X.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Face ID recognition along with a tap

Re: IOS 11 release

[matthew dyer]

Hi,

Ioos 11 will be publicly released on the 19th.  I am guessing that the iPhone X 
is more a camera based phone for pros who use there phones for taking pictures 
and the likes of it.  I have an iPod touch 6th gen which works fine for me and 
at some point will one upgrading it to iOS 11.  Just my thoughts.

Matthew


> On Sep 12, 2017, at 11:30 PM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> HI Listers,
>  
> Probably because of my time zone 
>  
> The IOS 11 I’m assuming GM appears to have been released this morning
>  
> I’m installing this now.
>  
> And if anyones up for discussion if it’s allowed, 
> I’m not impressed so far by the iPhone x,
> Mostly because Samsung have had most of what’s in it available for a couple 
> of years and more specifically for us in NZ the 256 GB phone is $2099  NZ 
> dollars
>  
> What happened to the 128GB device.
>  
> Otherwise it’s a camera going by most of what was presented.
>  
> SF
> 
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iTunes 12.7: How to cope with the abrupt changes

[Mary Otten]

iTunes 12.7: How to cope with the abrupt changes
Macworld  /  Glenn Fleishman

iTunes 12.7 appeared Tuesday following Apple’s slate of product announcements, 
and its version number hides how much that’s disappeared and changed in this 
release. The iOS App Store is wiped out, as are ringtones. iTunes U and 
Internet Radio have moved locations. And iTunes for Windows lost its ability to 
manage books in iOS.

IDG
The first time you launch iTunes 12.7, it gives you this hilarious bit of fluff 
about the changes made.

While many people have argued iTunes’ feature creep over the years had made it 
an increasingly odd sack of unrelated items, this shift doesn’t come with 
commensurate improvements or additions elsewhere in macOS, and may cause some 
difficulties for people with modest Internet throughput or low bandwidth caps, 
which can affect people across both the developed world (more the U.S. than 
elsewhere) and the developing one.

The biggest hit is to the iOS App Store in iTunes, which was always a strange 
fit. iOS apps were in iTunes, because iTunes was once the only way to manage 
content. But you’ll have to adjust your behavior and find new places to carry 
out activities you might have before. Let’s go through the changes.

What to do about no iOS apps in iTunes 12.7

The App Store in iTunes is kaput and there’s nothing you can do about, so dry 
your tears and let’s move on. Apple doesn’t let it go neatly out the door, 
however. After updating, I found that 5GB of “.ipa” files—the file format for 
apps—remained in my home directory (in ~/Music/iTunes Library/Mobile 
Applications/). You can throw those away unless you’re nostalgic.

If you were used to syncing your apps via iTunes and making purchases in macOS 
to sync back, that capability is now restricted to iOS. You won’t consume more 
bandwidth downloading an app via iOS than macOS—unless you have multiple iOS 
devices syncing the same apps to a single Mac.

Where it will really hurt is if and when you need to restore an iPhone or iPad. 
You can still perform iTunes backups, but the restore won’t transfer apps from 
your Mac, but instead re-download them over the Internet from Apple. That can 
easily consume gigabytes of bandwidth, depending on your app choices. Many 
users download few apps, or those apps that are relatively modest, and this 
won’t be as big a hit.

There’s no way to bypass or minimize this problem. If you have any kinds of 
restrictions on your internet service—whether in performance or limits—you 
should consider using a public Wi-Fi hotspot or the Wi-Fi of a friend without 
those limits. You’ll need to plan ahead when you wipe and want to restore an 
iOS device.

You might wonder what happened to File Transfers, a hack that Apple introduced 
many years ago to allow iOS apps to sync data back and forth with a Mac before 
iCloud Drive, Dropbox, Google Drive, and other methods were readily available. 
It remains: with an iOS device connected, click its icon in the area below the 
playback bar, and then click File Sharing in the navigation list at left.

IDG
File Transfers remains, even though apps are gone.

Other changes in iTunes 12.7

Ringtones are no longer managed as purchases in iTunes, but you can find 
previously downloaded ones and manage those in iTunes. Apple says any 
downloaded ringtones are in the ~/Music/iTunes Library/Tones/ folder. And if 
you select your device in iTunes, you can click the Tones item under On My 
Device to remove and add them.

In iOS 11, coming shortly, Apple will let you re-downloaded previously 
purchased ringtones and manage them directly on the device.

IDG
You can pick what shows up in the music library sidebar, including Internet 
Radio.

iTunes U content was moved to podcasts in iTunes, while Internet Radio is now 
part of the music library sidebar. If you’re not seeing Internet Radio, 
Control-click on the music sidebar, choose Edit List, and check the Internet 
Radio box. (While there, you can opt to include or exclude other items.)

Finally, Windows users will find themselves paging through their version of 
iTunes, trying to find Books. It doesn’t matter how thoroughly you ruffle the 
app: Apple says in a bit of doublespeak, “Books on iTunes for Windows are 
managed in iBooks for iOS.”



Original Article: 
https://www.macworld.com/article/3224531/software-entertainment/itunes-127-how-to-cope-with-the-abrupt-changes.html#tk.rss_all


Sent from my iPhone

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The archives for this list 

Re: iPhone Upgrades.

[Nickus de Vos]

Definably go with the 8 over the 7, and if you can afford it go for the X. 
That X looks awesome, 

Nickus
Sent from my iPhone, please excuse any typos...

> On 13 Sep 2017, at 14:02, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> So, I think it is time to upgrade my iPhone 6. Personally, from the press 
> there were three items I could make the iPhone 8 more appealing to a blind 
> user than the iPhone 7 models that are now significantly less expensive.
> 
> 1. BlueTOoth 5 instead of BT 4.. What does this actually mean for an end user.
> 2. Higher speed processor - OK obvious advantage there.
> Charge wirelessly. (Does this use power when not in use?)
> 
> Any other views as to getting the newer model for somebody that like to 
> upgrade phones no more than once every three years.
> 
> 
> 
> For those upgrading to the latest gen of phones what caught your appeal other 
> than latest and greatest? Does anybody think the iPhone X will be a little 
> like the anniversary Macintoshes a showcase of one or two new features in a 
> box to make it more expensive.
> 
> Take care!
> 
> 
> Jonathan Cohn
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Anyone used Youtube to MP3 converter lately?

[Raymond Foret Jr]

Downie - YouTube Video Downloader for macOS - Charlie Monroe … 



Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 8:25 AM, Stacey Robinson  wrote:
> 
> Ray,
> Where can I find this program you mentioned?
> Peace,
> Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.
>   
> mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 6:54 AM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
>> 
>> The solution I found is an app called Downie.  Sure, it’s not free, but it 
>> does let you download videos directly to your Mac.  The reason for the 
>> changes you noticed is that the court recently ordered a settlement in which 
>> youtube was involved.  It has something to do with copy right violations but 
>> not sure what.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> The constantly barefooted Ray
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 5:25 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Question says it all.  I tried to use it yesterday and was not successful  
>>> The cool thing is that they now give you the choice between several 
>>> different conversion types.  The not so cool thing is that I was unable to 
>>> select an output format, so could not convert the video.  Anyone else 
>>> noticed this?  Does anyone have a solution?
>>> TIA,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
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>>> 
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If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a me

Re: Oops how to save as on a mac and how to transfer from downloaded file to memory stick

[Jonathan Cohn]

Hello,

I have done this three or four times now since you wrote the message. I
have a BN APEX QT that I can use fairly freely. If you want, I can work
with you over the weekend and try to figure out what is going on. Please
contact me at jon.c.c...@gmail.com if you would like to work one on one on
this issue.

Best Wishes,

Jonathan


On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 2:15 PM Regina Alvarado 
wrote:

> Well, neither thing worked. I sent my UEB as a keyword document. Is there
> a way to make it a  BRF on either braille note or on the Mac?
>
> Downloaded a book from internet. Copied from the download folder and
> pasted into the books folder after opening the memory stick. No dice. When
> I go to read on the braille note the book is not there. Am I making this
> too hard?Regina Alvarado
> reggie.alvar...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> --
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac
> Visionaries list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

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[no subject]

[Marianne Robbins]

Dear Mary,
Thanks for sharing this well written and useful information from Glen 
Flieshman/MacWorld.
Marianne Robbins



Mary Otten mailto:motte...@gmail.com>>: Sep 13 07:58AM 
-0700 

iTunes 12.7: How to cope with the abrupt changes
Macworld / Glenn Fleishman




-- 
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Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[Robin]

What a GREAT Question? I also Wonder  ... How 
Accessible the iPhoneX will be? Especially Out of The Box


Will TotallyBlind users require Sighted 
Assistance to Activate Apple's VoiceOver at StartUp?


Afterr Apple's Siri is activated, I presume Siri 
will be TheEasiest Way to Turn VoiceOver ON & OFF


To Me it's Looking like Apple is More & More 
starting to Resemble Google's Android in both Look & Gestures


Just Saying

From what I've heard, the NEW iPhoneX Sounds 
like Samsung's GalaxyS8 & GalaxyNote8


I wonder if Samsung is TheReason  Why Apple 
raised ThePrice of its iPhones as I've heard 
Samsung is TheSupplier of its NEW Glass Display, 
which Samsung introduced with its GalaxyS6 LineUp a Couple of Years ago


Not Hating at All
At 11:03 PM 9/12/2017, you wrote:

Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
going home could be done with gestures but what about
starting/quitting VO...?

Catherine

On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> Interesting,
>
> Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print
> sensor.
>
> Why can’t apple do that also.
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
> viph...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and herre’s why
>
>
> I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here ™s why
> Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
>
> [Image removed by sender.]
> Enlarge /
> This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
>
> The all-new iPhone
> 
X

> is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed with
> is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a
> nearly all-screen design, which means there's 
no more room for a front Touch

> ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many
> phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead,
> the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for
> biometric security.
> Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts your
> face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple
> says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
>
> None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
>
> This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition feature,
> and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or accurate
> Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your face.
> This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint reader,
> which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
>
> Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" 
use case: If you're good, you'll

> stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on
> the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
> "authentication" button. In one touch, you've 
turned on the phone and logged

> in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and it's
> already on and unlocked. By the time you bring the phone to your face, the
> unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.
>
> To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your pocket,
> lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then can can you
> start the unlock process. The difference is 
probably one or two seconds, but

> for something you do 80 times a
> day,
> having the fastest possible unlock system really matters.
> [Image removed by sender.]
> Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system.
> [Image removed by sender.]
> Example of how Face ID maps and learns your face.
> [Image removed by sender.]
> Demo of Face ID setup.
> [Image removed by sender.]
> Animojis, which move to mimic your facial expressions.
> [Image removed by sender.]
> 3D mask produced with facial recognition on the iPhone X.
> [Image removed by sender.]
> Face ID recognition along with a tap of the side button can authenticate
> Apple Pay.
>
> Consider authenticating with Apple Pay. With a fingerprint reader, you can
> slam your iPhone on the credit card terminal while holding your finger on
> the Touch ID button, and everything will just work. You're continuously
> authenticating and beaming credit card data 
at the same time, which is easy,

> intuitive, and hard to mess up. According to Craig Federighi's Face ID demo
> during the keynote, you now have to open up Apple Pay first, then aim the
> phone at your face so Face ID can work. Only t

Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

No, you will not require sighted assistance out of the box.  Apple has a 
commitment to accessibility and prides themselves on there devices being 
accessible out of the box.  They would not go backwards in this respect.  These 
sorts of items are always considered when new technologies are introduced.

VO will be enabled via a triple-press of the lock button.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 13, 2017, at 10:49, Robin  wrote:

What a GREAT Question? I also Wonder  ... How Accessible the iPhoneX will be? 
Especially Out of The Box

Will TotallyBlind users require Sighted Assistance to Activate Apple's 
VoiceOver at StartUp?

Afterr Apple's Siri is activated, I presume Siri will be TheEasiest Way to Turn 
VoiceOver ON & OFF

To Me it's Looking like Apple is More & More starting to Resemble Google's 
Android in both Look & Gestures

Just Saying

>From what I've heard, the NEW iPhoneX Sounds like Samsung's GalaxyS8 & 
>GalaxyNote8

I wonder if Samsung is TheReason  Why Apple raised ThePrice of its iPhones as 
I've heard Samsung is TheSupplier of its NEW Glass Display, which Samsung 
introduced with its GalaxyS6 LineUp a Couple of Years ago

Not Hating at All
At 11:03 PM 9/12/2017, you wrote:
> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
> going home could be done with gestures but what about
> starting/quitting VO...?
> 
> Catherine
> 
> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> > Interesting,
> >
> > Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print
> > sensor.
> >
> > Why can’t apple do that also.
> > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> > Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
> > To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
> > viph...@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and herre’s why
> >
> >
> > I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here ™s why
> > Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
> >
> > [Image removed by sender.]
> > Enlarge /
> > This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
> >
> > The all-new iPhone
> > X
> > is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed with
> > is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a
> > nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front Touch
> > ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many
> > phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead,
> > the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for
> > biometric security.
> > Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts your
> > face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple
> > says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
> >
> > None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
> >
> > This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition feature,
> > and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or accurate
> > Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your face.
> > This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint reader,
> > which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
> >
> > Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, you'll
> > stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on
> > the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
> > "authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the phone and logged
> > in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and it's
> > already on and unlocked. By the time you bring the phone to your face, the
> > unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.
> >
> > To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your pocket,
> > lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then can can you
> > start the unlock process. The difference is probably one or two seconds, but
> > for something you do 80 times a
> > day,
> > having the fastest possible unlock system really matters.
> > [Image removed by sender.]
> > Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system.
> > [Image removed by sender.]
> > Example of how Face ID maps and learns your face.
> > [Image removed by sender.]
> > Demo of Face ID setup.
> > [Image removed by sender.]
> > Animojis, which move to mimic your facial expressions.
> > [Image removed by sender.]
> > 3D mask produced with facial recognition on the iPhone X.
> > [Image removed by sender.]
> > Fac

Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[Robin]

Just Curious
Is the Lock Button, The Same Button as the Power Button?
My Bad
At 09:53 AM 9/13/2017, you wrote:

Hi,

No, you will not require sighted assistance out 
of the box.  Apple has a commitment to 
accessibility and prides themselves on there 
devices being accessible out of the box.  They 
would not go backwards in this respect.  These 
sorts of items are always considered when new technologies are introduced.


VO will be enabled via a triple-press of the lock button.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 13, 2017, at 10:49, Robin  wrote:

What a GREAT Question? I also Wonder  ... How 
Accessible the iPhoneX will be? Especially Out of The Box


Will TotallyBlind users require Sighted 
Assistance to Activate Apple's VoiceOver at StartUp?


Afterr Apple's Siri is activated, I presume Siri 
will be TheEasiest Way to Turn VoiceOver ON & OFF


To Me it's Looking like Apple is More & More 
starting to Resemble Google's Android in both Look & Gestures


Just Saying

From what I've heard, the NEW iPhoneX Sounds 
like Samsung's GalaxyS8 & GalaxyNote8


I wonder if Samsung is TheReason  Why Apple 
raised ThePrice of its iPhones as I've heard 
Samsung is TheSupplier of its NEW Glass Display, 
which Samsung introduced with its GalaxyS6 LineUp a Couple of Years ago


Not Hating at All
At 11:03 PM 9/12/2017, you wrote:
> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
> going home could be done with gestures but what about
> starting/quitting VO...?
>
> Catherine
>
> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> > Interesting,
> >
> > Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print
> > sensor.
> >
> > Why can̢۪t apple do that also.
.
> > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> > Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
> > To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
> > viph...@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: I̢۪m worried that FaceID is 
going to sucsuck—and herre’s why

why
> >
> >
> > I’m worried that FaceID is going to suckâ€k—and here ™s why
why
> > Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
> >
> > [Image removed by sender.]
> > 
Enlarge /

> > This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
> >
> > The all-new iPhone
> > 
X
> > is out, and it's packed with technology. 
But one thing it's not packed with
> > is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones 
in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a
> > nearly all-screen design, which means 
there's no more room for a front Touch

> > ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many
> > phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead,
> > the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for
> > biometric security.
> > Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" 
camera setup, which blasts your

> > face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple
> > says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
> >
> > None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
> >
> > This is not the first phone we've tried 
with a facial recognition feature,
> > and they all have the same problem. It 
doesn't matter how fast or accurate
> > Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: 
you need to aim it at your face.
> > This is slow and awkward, especially when 
compared to a fingerprint reader,

> > which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
> >
> > Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" 
use case: If you're good, you'll

> > stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on
> > the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
> > "authentication" button. In one touch, 
you've turned on the phone and logged
> > in. You haven't even fully taken the phone 
out of your pocket yet, and it's
> > already on and unlocked. By the time you 
bring the phone to your face, the

> > unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.
> >
> > To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have 
take the phone out of your pocket,
> > lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn 
it on, and only then can can you
> > start the unlock process. The difference is 
probably one or two seconds, but

> > for something you do 80 times a
> > day,
> > having the fastest possible unlock system really matters.
> > [Image removed by sender.]
> > Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system.
> > [Image removed by sender.]
> > Example of how Face ID maps and learns your face.
> > [Image removed by sender.]
> > Demo of Face ID setup.
> > [Image removed by sender.]
> > Animojis, which mo

Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[Tim Kilburn]

Yes.

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Sep 13, 2017, at 11:13, Robin  wrote:

Just Curious
Is the Lock Button, The Same Button as the Power Button?
My Bad
At 09:53 AM 9/13/2017, you wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> No, you will not require sighted assistance out of the box.  Apple has a 
> commitment to accessibility and prides themselves on there devices being 
> accessible out of the box.  They would not go backwards in this respect.  
> These sorts of items are always considered when new technologies are 
> introduced.
> 
> VO will be enabled via a triple-press of the lock button.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Sep 13, 2017, at 10:49, Robin  wrote:
> 
> What a GREAT Question? I also Wonder  ... How Accessible the iPhoneX will be? 
> Especially Out of The Box
> 
> Will TotallyBlind users require Sighted Assistance to Activate Apple's 
> VoiceOver at StartUp?
> 
> Afterr Apple's Siri is activated, I presume Siri will be TheEasiest Way to 
> Turn VoiceOver ON & OFF
> 
> To Me it's Looking like Apple is More & More starting to Resemble Google's 
> Android in both Look & Gestures
> 
> Just Saying
> 
> From what I've heard, the NEW iPhoneX Sounds like Samsung's GalaxyS8 & 
> GalaxyNote8
> 
> I wonder if Samsung is TheReason  Why Apple raised ThePrice of its iPhones as 
> I've heard Samsung is TheSupplier of its NEW Glass Display, which Samsung 
> introduced with its GalaxyS6 LineUp a Couple of Years ago
> 
> Not Hating at All
> At 11:03 PM 9/12/2017, you wrote:
> > Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
> > app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
> > going home could be done with gestures but what about
> > starting/quitting VO...?
> >
> > Catherine
> >
> > On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> > > Interesting,
> > >
> > > Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print
> > > sensor.
> > >
> > > Why can̢۪t apple do that also.
> .
> > > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> > > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
> > > To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
> > > viph...@googlegroups.com
> > > Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to sucsuck—and herre’s why
> why
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m worried that FaceID is going to suckâ€k—and here ™s why
> why
> > > Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
> > >
> > > [Image removed by sender.]
> > > Enlarge /
> > > This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
> > >
> > > The all-new iPhone
> > > X
> > > is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed 
> > > with
> > > is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a
> > > nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front 
> > > Touch
> > > ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many
> > > phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead,
> > > the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for
> > > biometric security.
> > > Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts your
> > > face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple
> > > says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
> > >
> > > None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
> > >
> > > This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition feature,
> > > and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or accurate
> > > Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your 
> > > face.
> > > This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint 
> > > reader,
> > > which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
> > >
> > > Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, 
> > > you'll
> > > stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on
> > > the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
> > > "authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the phone and 
> > > logged
> > > in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and 
> > > it's
> > > already on and unlocked. By the time you bring the phone to your face, the
> > > unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.
> > >
> > > To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your pocket,
> > > lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then can can you
> > > start the unlock process. The difference is probably one or two seconds, 
> > > but
> > > for something you do 80 times a
> > > day,
> > > having the fastest possib

Re: Anyone used Youtube to MP3 converter lately?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Ronald,

It's a website.
Donna
> On Sep 13, 2017, at 6:36 AM, Ronald van Rhijn  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
> 
> Is this an app or a website?
> 
> Ronald
>> Op 13 sep. 2017, om 12:25 heeft Donna Goodin  het 
>> volgende geschreven:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Question says it all.  I tried to use it yesterday and was not successful.  
>> The cool thing is that they now give you the choice between several 
>> different conversion types.  The not so cool thing is that I was unable to 
>> select an output format, so could not convert the video.  Anyone else 
>> noticed this?  Does anyone have a solution?
>> TIA,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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Re: Anyone used Youtube to MP3 converter lately?

[Donna Goodin]

Thanks, Ray, for the app suggestion and the back story.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Sep 13, 2017, at 6:54 AM, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> The solution I found is an app called Downie.  Sure, it’s not free, but it 
> does let you download videos directly to your Mac.  The reason for the 
> changes you noticed is that the court recently ordered a settlement in which 
> youtube was involved.  It has something to do with copy right violations but 
> not sure what.
> 
> 
> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> The constantly barefooted Ray
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 5:25 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Question says it all.  I tried to use it yesterday and was not successful.  
>> The cool thing is that they now give you the choice between several 
>> different conversion types.  The not so cool thing is that I was unable to 
>> select an output format, so could not convert the video.  Anyone else 
>> noticed this?  Does anyone have a solution?
>> TIA,
>> Donna
>> 
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Wireless Keyboard Recommendations

[Jeff Berwick]

Hi all,

I have a Logetek kx760 (I think) bluetooth keyboard which I use to connect to 
both my Mac and Windows machines.

Recently, I have been experiencing connection issues on both platforms, so I 
assume it is related to the number of times I have accidentally dropped the 
keyboard. ;)

At any rate, I’m now in the market for a new keyboard that I can use wirelessly 
with both operating systems and like the ability to connect multiple computers 
to the same keyboard.

Any recommendations?

Tia,
Jeff


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Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

['Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries]

I don't think my questions were actually a "doom and gloom response".
I was merely wondering how these things would be done with no home
button, not saying it was impossible or terrible.   wrote:
> Start/stop VO will most likely be triple press of the power button.
>
> App switcher is easy, as is home button.
>
> I always find these doom and gloom responses which always come up to be
> quite amusing.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 13/09/2017, at 16:03, 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
>> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
>> going home could be done with gestures but what about
>> starting/quitting VO...?
>>
>> Catherine
>>
>>> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> Interesting,
>>>
>>> Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger
>>> print
>>> sensor.
>>>
>>> Why can’t apple do that also.
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
>>> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
>>> viph...@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>>> Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
>>>
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Enlarge
>>> /
>>> This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
>>>
>>> The all-new iPhone
>>> X
>>> is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed
>>> with
>>> is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for
>>> a
>>> nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front
>>> Touch
>>> ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like
>>> many
>>> phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely.
>>> Instead,
>>> the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature
>>> for
>>> biometric security.
>>> Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts
>>> your
>>> face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D.
>>> Apple
>>> says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
>>>
>>> None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
>>>
>>> This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition
>>> feature,
>>> and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or
>>> accurate
>>> Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your
>>> face.
>>> This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint
>>> reader,
>>> which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
>>>
>>> Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good,
>>> you'll
>>> stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands
>>> on
>>> the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
>>> "authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the phone and
>>> logged
>>> in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and
>>> it's
>>> already on and unlocked. By the time you bring the phone to your face,
>>> the
>>> unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.
>>>
>>> To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your
>>> pocket,
>>> lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then can can
>>> you
>>> start the unlock process. The difference is probably one or two seconds,
>>> but
>>> for something you do 80 times a
>>> day,
>>> having the fastest possible unlock system really matters.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Example of how Face ID maps and learns your face.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Demo of Face ID setup.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Animojis, which move to mimic your facial expressions.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> 3D mask produced with facial recognition on the iPhone X.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Face ID recognition along with a tap of the side button can authenticate
>>> Apple Pay.
>>>
>>> Consider authenticating with Apple Pay. With a fingerprint reader, you
>>> can
>>> slam your iPhone on the credit card terminal while holding your finger
>>> on
>>> the Touch ID button, and everything will just work. You're continuously
>>> authenticating and beaming credit card data at the same time, which is
>>> easy,
>>> intuitive, and hard to mess up. According to Craig Federighi's Face ID
>>> demo
>>> during the keynote, you now have 

Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

['Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries]

Excuse me but I wasn't "inventing worse case scenarios".  I was
reasonably and legitimately wondering how we will do certain things
without the home button, not saying we wouldn't be able to - I
speculated on how it could be done.  And by the way I am pleased with
Voiceover, though it has problems as well.  You inferred a lot from my
message that wasn't actually there.

Catherine

On 9/13/17, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
> Why do blind people always have to invent worst case scenarios even when the
> phone hasn’t come out yet? Ok, ok before you say anything i was also
> doubtful for many years, wondering how Apple would solve this or that,
> turned out they did and did it good at that.
> At tha risk of getting flamed, but hell i’ve been that before and survived,
> one thing the apple user base could learn from the Android one is to show
> some appreciation for what is being done. Every time Talkback comes out,
> even if its features are virtually useless for some, they get praise, but
> every time Voiceover comes out the negative always outways the positive and
> it lasts for months on end. Is Voiceover really *that* bad or am i stupid
> and unintelligent, and if it sucks so hard, why is it that after eight
> months in Android land i left probably not to return again and went back to
> iOs?
> /Krister
>
>
>> 13 sep. 2017 kl. 08:03 skrev 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries
>> :
>>
>> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
>> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
>> going home could be done with gestures but what about
>> starting/quitting VO...?
>>
>> Catherine
>>
>> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty > > wrote:
>>> Interesting,
>>>
>>> Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger
>>> print
>>> sensor.
>>>
>>> Why can’t apple do that also.
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
>>> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
>>> viph...@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>>> Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
>>>
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Enlarge>> > /
>>> This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
>>>
>>> The all-new iPhone
>>> X>> >
>>> is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed
>>> with
>>> is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for
>>> a
>>> nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front
>>> Touch
>>> ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like
>>> many
>>> phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely.
>>> Instead,
>>> the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature
>>> for
>>> biometric security.
>>> Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts
>>> your
>>> face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D.
>>> Apple
>>> says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
>>>
>>> None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
>>>
>>> This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition
>>> feature,
>>> and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or
>>> accurate
>>> Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your
>>> face.
>>> This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint
>>> reader,
>>> which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
>>>
>>> Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good,
>>> you'll
>>> stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands
>>> on
>>> the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
>>> "authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the phone and
>>> logged
>>> in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and
>>> it's
>>> already on and unlocked. By the time you bring the phone to your face,
>>> the
>>> unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.
>>>
>>> To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your
>>> pocket,
>>> lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then can can
>>> you
>>> start the unlock process. The difference is probably one or two seconds,
>>> but
>>> for something you do 80 times a
>>> day>> 

Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

['Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries]

I too get sick when people whine - including when people whine about
words/sentiments that weren't even expressed in the first place.

I didn't want to start people off venting about the problems of the
blindness community.  I only wondered how the quitting/loading of VO
and accessing home and the app switcher could be done without a home
button - wondering how something can be done does not equal saying it
can't be done.  I am curious and hopeful to see how this pans out; at
the same time, yes, a little concerned as sometimes when changes
happen, usability can become problematic or other problems arise - but
I am not whining.  I am wondering and imagining and questioning, and
there is nothing wrong with that.

Catherine

On 9/13/17, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
> I’m backing my friend Krister on this point.  Frankly, I am getting just
> plain sick and tired of al these blind people whining that something is
> going to suck or not be usable even before we know all the details of how it
> works.  Talk about a drain on one’s energy.
>
>
> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the
> blind:
>
> Sincerely,
>
> The constantly barefooted Ray
>
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:41 AM, Krister Ekstrom 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Why do blind people always have to invent worst case scenarios even when
>> the phone hasn’t come out yet? Ok, ok before you say anything i was also
>> doubtful for many years, wondering how Apple would solve this or that,
>> turned out they did and did it good at that.
>> At tha risk of getting flamed, but hell i’ve been that before and
>> survived, one thing the apple user base could learn from the Android one
>> is to show some appreciation for what is being done. Every time Talkback
>> comes out, even if its features are virtually useless for some, they get
>> praise, but every time Voiceover comes out the negative always outways the
>> positive and it lasts for months on end. Is Voiceover really *that* bad or
>> am i stupid and unintelligent, and if it sucks so hard, why is it that
>> after eight months in Android land i left probably not to return again and
>> went back to iOs?
>> /Krister
>>
>>
>>> 13 sep. 2017 kl. 08:03 skrev 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries
>>> >> >:
>>>
>>> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
>>> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
>>> going home could be done with gestures but what about
>>> starting/quitting VO...?
>>>
>>> Catherine
>>>
>>> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty >> > wrote:
 Interesting,

 Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger
 print
 sensor.

 Why can’t apple do that also.
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 ] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
 Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
 To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org ;
 macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 ;
 viph...@googlegroups.com 
 Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why


 I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
 Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo

 [Image removed by sender.]
 Enlarge> /
 This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.

 The all-new iPhone
 X>
 is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed
 with
 is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for
 a
 nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front
 Touch
 ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like
 many
 phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely.
 Instead,
 the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature
 for
 biometric security.
 Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts
 your
 face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D.
 Apple
 says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your
 phone.

 None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.

 This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition
 feature,
 and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or
 accurate
 Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you

Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[Mika Pyyhkala]

I believe it will "work," but I am worried about the extra .75 to 1.25
of a second that may be needed every time one wants to unlock the
phone.  I could be wrong, but it seems like touch id would be faster,
and it can be accessed with the phone in a lot of different
configurations and placements.  I also wish they had included a
fingerprint sensor on the back of the phone.

I would be curious though to hear from someone that embraces this
change and feels its overall a positive development, especially with
the blind use case.

I would note it failed at the keynote demo just as one small data point.

I can only hope that my initial thoughts about Face id are wrong and
that perhaps it is just as fast or faster than touch id.  Or that in a
future release Apple will indeed bring a touch id sensor to say the
back of the device.

After all, they do slowly push out features so there is a reason to
upgrade every year.

I will 99% buy the iPhone 8 as a result, otherwise if it had touch id
I would have bought the X.

Best,
Mika

On 9/13/17, 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries
 wrote:
> I too get sick when people whine - including when people whine about
> words/sentiments that weren't even expressed in the first place.
>
> I didn't want to start people off venting about the problems of the
> blindness community.  I only wondered how the quitting/loading of VO
> and accessing home and the app switcher could be done without a home
> button - wondering how something can be done does not equal saying it
> can't be done.  I am curious and hopeful to see how this pans out; at
> the same time, yes, a little concerned as sometimes when changes
> happen, usability can become problematic or other problems arise - but
> I am not whining.  I am wondering and imagining and questioning, and
> there is nothing wrong with that.
>
> Catherine
>
> On 9/13/17, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
>> I’m backing my friend Krister on this point.  Frankly, I am getting just
>> plain sick and tired of al these blind people whining that something is
>> going to suck or not be usable even before we know all the details of how
>> it
>> works.  Talk about a drain on one’s energy.
>>
>>
>> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the
>> blind:
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> The constantly barefooted Ray
>>
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:41 AM, Krister Ekstrom 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Why do blind people always have to invent worst case scenarios even when
>>> the phone hasn’t come out yet? Ok, ok before you say anything i was also
>>> doubtful for many years, wondering how Apple would solve this or that,
>>> turned out they did and did it good at that.
>>> At tha risk of getting flamed, but hell i’ve been that before and
>>> survived, one thing the apple user base could learn from the Android one
>>> is to show some appreciation for what is being done. Every time Talkback
>>> comes out, even if its features are virtually useless for some, they get
>>> praise, but every time Voiceover comes out the negative always outways
>>> the
>>> positive and it lasts for months on end. Is Voiceover really *that* bad
>>> or
>>> am i stupid and unintelligent, and if it sucks so hard, why is it that
>>> after eight months in Android land i left probably not to return again
>>> and
>>> went back to iOs?
>>> /Krister
>>>
>>>
 13 sep. 2017 kl. 08:03 skrev 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries
 >>> >:

 Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
 app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
 going home could be done with gestures but what about
 starting/quitting VO...?

 Catherine

 On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty >>> > wrote:
> Interesting,
>
> Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger
> print
> sensor.
>
> Why can’t apple do that also.
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> ] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org ;
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> ;
> viph...@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>
>
> I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
> Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
>
> [Image removed by sender.]
> Enlarge > /
> This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
>
> The all-new iPhone
> X

Re: IOS 11 release

[christopher hallsworth]

Hello, I have the GM on all my devices as well, nough said till general 
availability next week.

> On 13 Sep 2017, at 04:30, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> HI Listers,
>  
> Probably because of my time zone 
>  
> The IOS 11 I’m assuming GM appears to have been released this morning
>  
> I’m installing this now.
>  
> And if anyones up for discussion if it’s allowed, 
> I’m not impressed so far by the iPhone x,
> Mostly because Samsung have had most of what’s in it available for a couple 
> of years and more specifically for us in NZ the 256 GB phone is $2099  NZ 
> dollars
>  
> What happened to the 128GB device.
>  
> Otherwise it’s a camera going by most of what was presented.
>  
> SF
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: 
> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[E.T.]

   All done with Gestures.

From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/12/2017 11:03 PM, 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries wrote:

Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
going home could be done with gestures but what about
starting/quitting VO...?

Catherine

On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

Interesting,

Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print
sensor.

Why can’t apple do that also.
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
viph...@googlegroups.com
Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why


I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo

[Image removed by sender.]
Enlarge /
This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.

The all-new iPhone
X
is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed with
is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a
nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front Touch
ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many
phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead,
the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for
biometric security.
Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts your
face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple
says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.

None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.

This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition feature,
and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or accurate
Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your face.
This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint reader,
which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.

Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, you'll
stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on
the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
"authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the phone and logged
in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and it's
already on and unlocked. By the time you bring the phone to your face, the
unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.

To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your pocket,
lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then can can you
start the unlock process. The difference is probably one or two seconds, but
for something you do 80 times a
day,
having the fastest possible unlock system really matters.
[Image removed by sender.]
Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system.
[Image removed by sender.]
Example of how Face ID maps and learns your face.
[Image removed by sender.]
Demo of Face ID setup.
[Image removed by sender.]
Animojis, which move to mimic your facial expressions.
[Image removed by sender.]
3D mask produced with facial recognition on the iPhone X.
[Image removed by sender.]
Face ID recognition along with a tap of the side button can authenticate
Apple Pay.

Consider authenticating with Apple Pay. With a fingerprint reader, you can
slam your iPhone on the credit card terminal while holding your finger on
the Touch ID button, and everything will just work. You're continuously
authenticating and beaming credit card data at the same time, which is easy,
intuitive, and hard to mess up. According to Craig Federighi's Face ID demo
during the keynote, you now have to open up Apple Pay first, then aim the
phone at your face so Face ID can work. Only then can you tap against the
credit card terminal. That's two extra steps.

A fingerprint sensor, because it works by touch, is basically active all the
time. Anytime you need it, you just press it, and it will work. Facial
recognition has to be specifically started by an app though. So to
authenticate a payment, you now have to open Apple Pay first, because
something has to tell the facial recognition system to turn on. If you
ignore this and just put the phone against a credit card terminal without
authenticating, I suspect Apple Pay will open and ask for a Face ID scan,
which won't work because the 

RE: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[Simon Fogarty]

The voice over off / on triple click will move to the power button as has the 
siri button,

But looking at the specs,

 I'm not sure the screen changes are worth the 350 dollar price hike from the 
8+ 256 GB device,

I know for me the 64 GB device is not enough storage,

 So that leaves me with the 256,

 And the specs on the 8 and 8+ don't seem that different from the 10.
Except for the screen.but 2099 nz dollars is just a bit over the top for a 
device that Samsung have for 2/3 of the price but with pretty much the same 
features and including the finger print sensor.


-Original Message-
From: 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 6:03 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the app 
switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and going home could 
be done with gestures but what about starting/quitting VO...?

Catherine

On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> Interesting,
>
> Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger 
> print sensor.
>
> Why can’t apple do that also.
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; 
> viph...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>
>
> I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why Ars Technica  
> /  Ron Amadeo
>
> [Image removed by sender.]
> Enlarge g> / This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
>
> The all-new iPhone
> X martphone-is-called-the-iphone-x/>
> is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed 
> with is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X 
> goes for a nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room 
> for a front Touch ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor 
> on the back, like many phones have done, Apple chose to do away with 
> Touch ID entirely. Instead, the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" 
> facial recognition feature for biometric security.
> Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts 
> your face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 
> 3D. Apple says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your 
> phone.
>
> None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
>
> This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition 
> feature, and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how 
> fast or accurate Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim 
> it at your face.
> This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint 
> reader, which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
>
> Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, 
> you'll stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your 
> finger lands on the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" 
> button and an "authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on 
> the phone and logged in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of 
> your pocket yet, and it's already on and unlocked. By the time you 
> bring the phone to your face, the unlock process is finished and you're 
> looking at the home screen.
>
> To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your 
> pocket, lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then 
> can can you start the unlock process. The difference is probably one 
> or two seconds, but for something you do 80 times a 
> day 2>, having the fastest possible unlock system really matters.
> [Image removed by sender.]
> Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system.
> [Image removed by sender.]
> Example of how Face ID maps and learns your face.
> [Image removed by sender.]
> Demo of Face ID setup.
> [Image removed by sender.]
> Animojis, which move to mimic your facial expressions.
> [Image removed by sender.]
> 3D mask produced with facial recognition on the iPhone X.
> [Image removed by sender.]
> Face ID recognition along with a tap of the side button can 
> authenticate Apple Pay.
>
> Consider authenticating with Apple Pay. With a fingerprint reader, you 
> can slam your iPhone on the credit card terminal while holding your 
> finger on the Touch ID button, and everything will just work. You're 
> continuously authenticating and beaming credit card data at the same 
> time, which is easy, intuitive, and hard to mess up. According to 
> Craig Federighi's Face ID demo during the keynote, you now have to 
>

RE: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[Simon Fogarty]

SO david are you saying that the apple face ID can’t be fooled?

I’d say that give it till xmas and someone will have done it.
As for the finger print sensor
The apple one can be fooled now with other body parts
Biometric scanning is still rather new so it’s really a wait and see,


From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of David Chittenden
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 6:20 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

The Samsung face recognition can be tricked with a picture of the person's 
face. In fact, there are YouTube videos showing people taking selfies with one 
phone and then using the selfie picture onscreen to unlock the Samsung face 
recognition. That is nicely secure, don't you think?

As for the fingerprint sensor, I have read several complaints from people that 
they often touch the camera rather than the fingerprint sensor.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

On 13/09/2017, at 14:02, Simon Fogarty 
mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> wrote:
Interesting,

Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print 
sensor.

Why can’t apple do that also.
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; 
viph...@googlegroups.com
Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why


I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo

<~WRD000.jpg>
Enlarge / This 
right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.

The all-new iPhone 
X
 is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed with is 
a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a nearly 
all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front Touch ID 
sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many phones 
have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead, the X is 
relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for biometric 
security.
Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts your face 
with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple says this 
can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.

None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.

This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition feature, and 
they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or accurate Face ID 
is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your face. This is 
slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint reader, which 
doesn't have to be aimed at anything.

Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, you'll 
stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on the 
fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an 
"authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the phone and logged 
in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and it's 
already on and unlocked. By the time you bring the phone to your face, the 
unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.

To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your pocket, lift 
it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then can can you start the 
unlock process. The difference is probably one or two seconds, but for 
something you do 80 times a 
day, 
having the fastest possible unlock system really matters.
<~WRD000.jpg>
Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system.
<~WRD000.jpg>
Example of how Face ID maps and learns your face.
<~WRD000.jpg>
Demo of Face ID setup.
<~WRD000.jpg>
Animojis, which move to mimic your facial expressions.
<~WRD000.jpg>
3D mask produced with facial recognition on the iPhone X.
<~WRD000.jpg>
Face ID recognition along with a tap of the side button can authenticate Apple 
Pay.

Consider authenticating with Apple Pay. With a fingerprint reader, you can slam 
your iPhone on the credit card terminal while holding your finger on the Touch 
ID button, and everything will just work. You're continuously authenticating 
and beaming credit card data at the same time, which is easy, intuitive, and 
hard to mess up. According to Craig Federighi's Face ID demo during the 
keynote, you now have to o

RE: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[Simon Fogarty]

The only negative I really see with the x is the new Zealand price tag,

The other features sound great but the 8 and 8+ have majority of the x features

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Krister Ekstrom
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 7:42 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

Why do blind people always have to invent worst case scenarios even when the 
phone hasn’t come out yet? Ok, ok before you say anything i was also doubtful 
for many years, wondering how Apple would solve this or that, turned out they 
did and did it good at that.
At tha risk of getting flamed, but hell i’ve been that before and survived, one 
thing the apple user base could learn from the Android one is to show some 
appreciation for what is being done. Every time Talkback comes out, even if its 
features are virtually useless for some, they get praise, but every time 
Voiceover comes out the negative always outways the positive and it lasts for 
months on end. Is Voiceover really *that* bad or am i stupid and unintelligent, 
and if it sucks so hard, why is it that after eight months in Android land i 
left probably not to return again and went back to iOs?
/Krister



13 sep. 2017 kl. 08:03 skrev 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>:

Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
going home could be done with gestures but what about
starting/quitting VO...?

Catherine

On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> 
wrote:

Interesting,

Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print
sensor.

Why can’t apple do that also.
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
viph...@googlegroups.com
Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why


I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo

[Image removed by sender.]
Enlarge /
This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.

The all-new iPhone
X
is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed with
is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a
nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front Touch
ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many
phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead,
the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for
biometric security.
Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts your
face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple
says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.

None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.

This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition feature,
and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or accurate
Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your face.
This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint reader,
which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.

Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, you'll
stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on
the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
"authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the phone and logged
in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and it's
already on and unlocked. By the time you bring the phone to your face, the
unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.

To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your pocket,
lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then can can you
start the unlock process. The difference is probably one or two seconds, but
for something you do 80 times a
day,
having the fastest possible unlock system really matters.
[Image removed by sender.]
Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system.
[Image removed by sender.]
Example of how Face ID maps and learns your face.
[Image removed by sender.]
Demo of Face ID setup.
[Image removed by sender.]
Animojis, which move to mimic your facial expressions.
[Image removed by sender.]
3D mask produced with facia

RE: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[Simon Fogarty]

Ray,

One thing I do agree with ii that when it come to apple products we can be 99% 
sure that it will work with voiceover out of the box,

The only reason I say 99% is that  gotta give a 1% chance of something not 
working, but lets face it, everything apple works without issue for us,

Including the home pods and I’m sure the Series 3 watch with LTE which isn’t 
going to be available in new zeaad for a while, the gps only model is already 
advertised,

Why can’t this country I live in come in to the real world with everyone else.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Raymond Foret Jr
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 9:17 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

I’m backing my friend Krister on this point.  Frankly, I am getting just plain 
sick and tired of al these blind people whining that something is going to suck 
or not be usable even before we know all the details of how it works.  Talk 
about a drain on one’s energy.


Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:41 AM, Krister Ekstrom 
mailto:kris...@kristersplace.com>> wrote:

Why do blind people always have to invent worst case scenarios even when the 
phone hasn’t come out yet? Ok, ok before you say anything i was also doubtful 
for many years, wondering how Apple would solve this or that, turned out they 
did and did it good at that.
At tha risk of getting flamed, but hell i’ve been that before and survived, one 
thing the apple user base could learn from the Android one is to show some 
appreciation for what is being done. Every time Talkback comes out, even if its 
features are virtually useless for some, they get praise, but every time 
Voiceover comes out the negative always outways the positive and it lasts for 
months on end. Is Voiceover really *that* bad or am i stupid and unintelligent, 
and if it sucks so hard, why is it that after eight months in Android land i 
left probably not to return again and went back to iOs?
/Krister



13 sep. 2017 kl. 08:03 skrev 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries 
mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>:

Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
going home could be done with gestures but what about
starting/quitting VO...?

Catherine

On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty mailto:si...@blinky-net.com>> 
wrote:

Interesting,

Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print
sensor.

Why can’t apple do that also.
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
viph...@googlegroups.com
Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why


I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo

[Image removed by sender.]
Enlarge /
This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.

The all-new iPhone
X
is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed with
is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a
nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front Touch
ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many
phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead,
the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for
biometric security.
Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts your
face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple
says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.

None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.

This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition feature,
and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or accurate
Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your face.
This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint reader,
which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.

Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, you'll
stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on
the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
"authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the phone and logged
in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and it's
already o

RE: VI people will not be excluded from Face ID for I phone 10.

[Simon Fogarty]

Hi Kawal,

 I think we're all wanting  one of them,
 I'd love one but the price makes life difficult.

 Wonder if I can extend my credit card limit!


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kawal Gucukoglu
Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 10:39 PM
To: Macvisionaries 
Subject: VI people will not be excluded from Face ID for I phone 10.

I have spoken to Apple Accessibility.

They have assured me that Face ID will work with Voice Over so no one needs to 
worry about not being able to use the I phone 10.

I am excited.  I want one of those.

Kawal.

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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
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If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
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can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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re faceID with vo

[Simon Fogarty]

Re the face ID with voiceover issues,
Well as in Jonathans email, it's not going to be an issue,

May be the biggest issue will be getting your face in the direct line of the 
front camera but it appears Apple have thought of that one also.

What it comes down to is what the user wants or more specifically requires in 
their smart phone,

I'd love the x but hey it's pricy here so it will be a big thing to think of 
over the next 6 weeks.

Worst case is I wait till September next year when they bring out a new version.
Surely it can only be better.what I am waiting for is the Earpods series 2 
which is seemingly going to have the wireless charging case that will work with 
the airpad charging system as demonstrated in the keybote this morning,
It would be great if I had one thing charging all devices watch, phone and pods,
I only then need to worry about my iPad mini,

I am wondering how we will get on using the ano emojis
Which were demo'd in the presentation,
 That will be interesting for us, but I'm sure apple figured that one out also.


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Re: Anyone used Youtube to MP3 converter lately?

[CHUCK REICHEL]

Hi Ray,
Looks interesting.
How is it with VoiceOver?
Thanks
Chuck

On Sep 13, 2017, at 11:14 AM, Raymond Foret Jr wrote:

> Downie - YouTube Video Downloader for macOS - Charlie Monroe …
> 
> 
> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> The constantly barefooted Ray
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 8:25 AM, Stacey Robinson  wrote:
>> 
>> Ray,
>> Where can I find this program you mentioned?
>> Peace,   
>> Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.
>>  
>> mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 6:54 AM, Raymond Foret Jr  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The solution I found is an app called Downie.  Sure, it’s not free, but it 
>>> does let you download videos directly to your Mac.  The reason for the 
>>> changes you noticed is that the court recently ordered a settlement in 
>>> which youtube was involved.  It has something to do with copy right 
>>> violations but not sure what.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
>>> blind:
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> The constantly barefooted Ray
>>> 
 On Sep 13, 2017, at 5:25 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 Question says it all.  I tried to use it yesterday and was not successful  
 The cool thing is that they now give you the choice between several 
 different conversion types.  The not so cool thing is that I was unable to 
 select an output format, so could not convert the video.  Anyone else 
 noticed this?  Does anyone have a solution?
 TIA,
 Donna
 
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Re: iTunes 12.7: How to cope with the abrupt changes

[E.T.]

   Very nice. Maybe not. That is a major change that methinks Apple 
ought to rethink. I did not see much else changed. I updated iTunes 
under High Sierra but will wait on the update under Sierra until I 
develop a strategy. Maybe wait until I get a new phone and have done the 
restore.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/13/2017 7:58 AM, Mary Otten wrote:


iTunes 12.7: How to cope with the abrupt changes
Macworld  /  Glenn Fleishman

iTunes 12.7 appeared Tuesday 
 
following Apple’s slate of product announcements 
, 
and its version number hides how much that’s disappeared and changed in 
this release. The iOS App Store is wiped out, as are ringtones. iTunes U 
and Internet Radio have moved locations. And iTunes for Windows lost its 
ability to manage books in iOS.


itunes 12 7 yeah rightIDG

The first time you launch iTunes 12.7, it gives you this hilarious bit 
of fluff about the changes made.


While many people have argued iTunes’ feature creep over the years had 
made it an increasingly odd sack of unrelated items, this shift doesn’t 
come with commensurate improvements or additions elsewhere in macOS, and 
may cause some difficulties for people with modest Internet throughput 
or low bandwidth caps, which can affect people across both the developed 
world (more the U.S. than elsewhere) and the developing one.


The biggest hit is to the iOS App Store in iTunes, which was always a 
strange fit. iOS apps were in iTunes, because iTunes was once the only 
way to manage content. But you’ll have to adjust your behavior and find 
new places to carry out activities you might have before. Let’s go 
through the changes.



What to do about no iOS apps in iTunes 12.7

The App Store in iTunes is kaput and there’s nothing you can do about, 
so dry your tears and let’s move on. Apple doesn’t let it go neatly out 
the door, however. After updating, I found that 5GB of “.ipa” files—the 
file format for apps—remained in my home directory (in |~/Music/iTunes 
Library/Mobile Applications/|). You can throw those away unless you’re 
nostalgic.


If you were used to syncing your apps via iTunes and making purchases in 
macOS to sync back, that capability is now restricted to iOS. You won’t 
consume more bandwidth downloading an app via iOS than macOS—unless you 
have multiple iOS devices syncing the same apps to a single Mac.


Where it will really hurt is if and when you need to restore an iPhone 
or iPad. You can still perform iTunes backups, but the restore won’t 
transfer apps from your Mac, but instead re-download them over the 
Internet from Apple. That can easily consume gigabytes of bandwidth, 
depending on your app choices. Many users download few apps, or those 
apps that are relatively modest, and this won’t be as big a hit.


There’s no way to bypass or minimize this problem. If you have any kinds 
of restrictions on your internet service—whether in performance or 
limits—you should consider using a public Wi-Fi hotspot or the Wi-Fi of 
a friend without those limits. You’ll need to plan ahead when you wipe 
and want to restore an iOS device.


You might wonder what happened to File Transfers, a hack that Apple 
introduced many years ago to allow iOS apps to sync data back and forth 
with a Mac before iCloud Drive, Dropbox, Google Drive, and other methods 
were readily available. It remains: with an iOS device connected, click 
its icon in the area below the playback bar, and then click File Sharing 
in the navigation list at left.


itunes 12 7 file downloadsIDG

File Transfers remains, even though apps are gone.


Other changes in iTunes 12.7

Ringtones are no longer managed as purchases in iTunes, but you can find 
previously downloaded ones and manage those in iTunes. Apple says any 
downloaded ringtones are in the |~/Music/iTunes Library/Tones/| folder. 
And if you select your device in iTunes, you can click the Tones item 
under On My Device to remove and add them.


In iOS 11, coming shortly, Apple will let you re-downloaded previously 
purchased ringtones  and 
manage them directly on the device.


itunes 12 7 internet radioIDG

You can pick what shows up in the music library sidebar, including 
Internet Radio.


iTunes U content was moved to podcasts in iTunes, while Internet Radio 
is now part of the music library sidebar. If you’re not seeing Internet 
Radio, Control-click on the music sidebar, choose Edit List, and check 
the Internet Radio box. (While there, you can opt to include or exclude 

Re: iTunes 12.7: How to cope with the abrupt changes

[Matthew Dierckens]

Cording to a friend of mine, you can copy and paste ringtones onto your phone 
with iTunes when it’s unlocked.

God bless.
Matt Dierckens,
Certified assistive technology specialist
Macintosh, iOS, and windows Trainor
Canadian phone: 519-962-9140
US phone: 573-401-1018


On Sep 13, 2017, at 13:49, E.T.  wrote:

  Very nice. Maybe not. That is a major change that methinks Apple ought to 
rethink. I did not see much else changed. I updated iTunes under High Sierra 
but will wait on the update under Sierra until I develop a strategy. Maybe wait 
until I get a new phone and have done the restore.

>From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
 "God for you is where you sweep away all the
 mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
 our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
 and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

> On 9/13/2017 7:58 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
> iTunes 12.7: How to cope with the abrupt changes
> Macworld  /  Glenn Fleishman
> iTunes 12.7 appeared Tuesday 
> 
>  following Apple’s slate of product announcements 
> ,
>  and its version number hides how much that’s disappeared and changed in this 
> release. The iOS App Store is wiped out, as are ringtones. iTunes U and 
> Internet Radio have moved locations. And iTunes for Windows lost its ability 
> to manage books in iOS.
> itunes 12 7 yeah rightIDG
> The first time you launch iTunes 12.7, it gives you this hilarious bit of 
> fluff about the changes made.
> While many people have argued iTunes’ feature creep over the years had made 
> it an increasingly odd sack of unrelated items, this shift doesn’t come with 
> commensurate improvements or additions elsewhere in macOS, and may cause some 
> difficulties for people with modest Internet throughput or low bandwidth 
> caps, which can affect people across both the developed world (more the U.S. 
> than elsewhere) and the developing one.
> The biggest hit is to the iOS App Store in iTunes, which was always a strange 
> fit. iOS apps were in iTunes, because iTunes was once the only way to manage 
> content. But you’ll have to adjust your behavior and find new places to carry 
> out activities you might have before. Let’s go through the changes.
>What to do about no iOS apps in iTunes 12.7
> The App Store in iTunes is kaput and there’s nothing you can do about, so dry 
> your tears and let’s move on. Apple doesn’t let it go neatly out the door, 
> however. After updating, I found that 5GB of “.ipa” files—the file format for 
> apps—remained in my home directory (in |~/Music/iTunes Library/Mobile 
> Applications/|). You can throw those away unless you’re nostalgic.
> If you were used to syncing your apps via iTunes and making purchases in 
> macOS to sync back, that capability is now restricted to iOS. You won’t 
> consume more bandwidth downloading an app via iOS than macOS—unless you have 
> multiple iOS devices syncing the same apps to a single Mac.
> Where it will really hurt is if and when you need to restore an iPhone or 
> iPad. You can still perform iTunes backups, but the restore won’t transfer 
> apps from your Mac, but instead re-download them over the Internet from 
> Apple. That can easily consume gigabytes of bandwidth, depending on your app 
> choices. Many users download few apps, or those apps that are relatively 
> modest, and this won’t be as big a hit.
> There’s no way to bypass or minimize this problem. If you have any kinds of 
> restrictions on your internet service—whether in performance or limits—you 
> should consider using a public Wi-Fi hotspot or the Wi-Fi of a friend without 
> those limits. You’ll need to plan ahead when you wipe and want to restore an 
> iOS device.
> You might wonder what happened to File Transfers, a hack that Apple 
> introduced many years ago to allow iOS apps to sync data back and forth with 
> a Mac before iCloud Drive, Dropbox, Google Drive, and other methods were 
> readily available. It remains: with an iOS device connected, click its icon 
> in the area below the playback bar, and then click File Sharing in the 
> navigation list at left.
> itunes 12 7 file downloadsIDG
> File Transfers remains, even though apps are gone.
>Other changes in iTunes 12.7
> Ringtones are no longer managed as purchases in iTunes, but you can find 
> previously downloaded ones and manage those in iTunes. Apple says any 
> downloaded ringtones are in the |~/Music/iTunes Library/Tones/| folder. And 
> if you select your device in iTunes, you can click the Tones item under On My 
> Device to remove and add them.
> In iOS 11, coming shortly, Apple will let you re-downloaded previously 
> purchased ringtones  and manage 
> them directly on the device.
> itunes 12 

Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[Krister Ekstrom]

Don’t worry Simon, it’s like this here in Sweden too, which is about the only 
actual gripe i have about apple products. The features find their way here, 
only it takes a couple of forevers for the feature to actually find their way 
here. How long was it since ApplePay started again? It’s coming to Sweden this 
fall.


> /Krister

> 13 sep. 2017 kl. 14:14 skrev Simon Fogarty :
> 
> Ray,
>  
> One thing I do agree with ii that when it come to apple products we can be 
> 99% sure that it will work with voiceover out of the box,
>  
> The only reason I say 99% is that  gotta give a 1% chance of something not 
> working, but lets face it, everything apple works without issue for us,
>  
> Including the home pods and I’m sure the Series 3 watch with LTE which isn’t 
> going to be available in new zeaad for a while, the gps only model is already 
> advertised,
>  
> Why can’t this country I live in come in to the real world with everyone else.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>  ] On Behalf Of Raymond Foret Jr
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 9:17 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>  
> I’m backing my friend Krister on this point.  Frankly, I am getting just 
> plain sick and tired of al these blind people whining that something is going 
> to suck or not be usable even before we know all the details of how it works. 
>  Talk about a drain on one’s energy.
>  
>  
> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> The constantly barefooted Ray 
>  
> On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:41 AM, Krister Ekstrom  > wrote:
>  
> Why do blind people always have to invent worst case scenarios even when the 
> phone hasn’t come out yet? Ok, ok before you say anything i was also doubtful 
> for many years, wondering how Apple would solve this or that, turned out they 
> did and did it good at that.
> At tha risk of getting flamed, but hell i’ve been that before and survived, 
> one thing the apple user base could learn from the Android one is to show 
> some appreciation for what is being done. Every time Talkback comes out, even 
> if its features are virtually useless for some, they get praise, but every 
> time Voiceover comes out the negative always outways the positive and it 
> lasts for months on end. Is Voiceover really *that* bad or am i stupid and 
> unintelligent, and if it sucks so hard, why is it that after eight months in 
> Android land i left probably not to return again and went back to iOs?
> /Krister
>  
> 
> 
> 13 sep. 2017 kl. 08:03 skrev 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries 
> mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>:
>  
> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
> going home could be done with gestures but what about
> starting/quitting VO...?
> 
> Catherine
> 
> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  > wrote:
> 
> Interesting,
> 
> Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print
> sensor.
> 
> Why can’t apple do that also.
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> ] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org ; 
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ;
> viph...@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
> 
> 
> I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
> Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
> 
> [Image removed by sender.]
> Enlarge > /
> This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
> 
> The all-new iPhone
> X  
> >
> is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed with
> is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a
> nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front Touch
> ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many
> phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead,
> the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for
> biometric security.
> Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blas

Re: Anyone used Youtube to MP3 converter lately?

[Ronald van Rhijn]

Hey Donna,

If you’re talking about youtube-mp3.org , I read a few 
days ago its been closed under pressure of recordlabels.

Ronald

> Op 13 sep. 2017, om 19:24 heeft Donna Goodin  het volgende 
> geschreven:
> 
> Hi Ronald,
> 
> It's a website.
> Donna
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 6:36 AM, Ronald van Rhijn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna,
>> 
>> Is this an app or a website?
>> 
>> Ronald
>>> Op 13 sep. 2017, om 12:25 heeft Donna Goodin  het 
>>> volgende geschreven:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Question says it all.  I tried to use it yesterday and was not successful.  
>>> The cool thing is that they now give you the choice between several 
>>> different conversion types.  The not so cool thing is that I was unable to 
>>> select an output format, so could not convert the video.  Anyone else 
>>> noticed this?  Does anyone have a solution?
>>> TIA,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
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>> 
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>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
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Re: Anyone used Youtube to MP3 converter lately?

[Raymond Foret Jr]

Perfect.


Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:

Sincerely,

The constantly barefooted Ray

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 10:33 AM, CHUCK REICHEL  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Ray,
> Looks interesting.
> How is it with VoiceOver?
> Thanks
> Chuck
> 
> On Sep 13, 2017, at 11:14 AM, Raymond Foret Jr wrote:
> 
>> Downie - YouTube Video Downloader for macOS - Charlie Monroe … 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the blind:
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> The constantly barefooted Ray
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 8:25 AM, Stacey Robinson >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ray,
>>> Where can I find this program you mentioned?
>>> Peace,  
>>> Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Kirk.
>>> 
>>> mailto:stacey...@bellsouth.net 
>>> 
 On Sep 13, 2017, at 6:54 AM, Raymond Foret Jr >>> > wrote:
 
 The solution I found is an app called Downie.  Sure, it’s not free, but it 
 does let you download videos directly to your Mac.  The reason for the 
 changes you noticed is that the court recently ordered a settlement in 
 which youtube was involved.  It has something to do with copy right 
 violations but not sure what.
 
 
 Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the 
 blind:
 
 Sincerely,
 
 The constantly barefooted Ray
 
> On Sep 13, 2017, at 5:25 AM, Donna Goodin  > wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Question says it all.  I tried to use it yesterday and was not successful 
>  The cool thing is that they now give you the choice between several 
> different conversion types.  The not so cool thing is that I was unable 
> to select an output format, so could not convert the video.  Anyone else 
> noticed this?  Does anyone have a solution?
> TIA,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
> at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
>  and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
> 
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ 
> 
> --- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
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 -- 
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 Visionaries list.
 
 If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark 
 at:  macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com 
  and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com 
 
 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[Eric Oyen]

there is one additional issue: what happens if VO is not turned on? how are you 
supposed to know that your face is on screen? I am totally blind and even with 
VO turned on and the camera aimed at my face, I can never get it centered. so, 
facial recognition might not be a disable thing for me.

Anyway, outside of that, I am not sure that the $1k price tag will make the 
iPhone worth it. I have a 7 plus now and its going to take me 3 years to pay it 
off. Also, given some of Apple's intentions of late with regard to DRM, 
security, right to repair, etc, I am starting to lean toward getting an android 
phone with similar capabilities and about 1/3rd the cost. I don't want to have 
to do this, but if Apple doesn't start doing things in a more reasonable 
fashion, I will be left with no other choice.

-eric

On Sep 12, 2017, at 11:05 PM, E.T. wrote:

>   All done with Gestures.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 9/12/2017 11:03 PM, 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
>> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
>> going home could be done with gestures but what about
>> starting/quitting VO...?
>> Catherine
>> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> Interesting,
>>> 
>>> Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print
>>> sensor.
>>> 
>>> Why can’t apple do that also.
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
>>> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
>>> viph...@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>>> Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
>>> 
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Enlarge /
>>> This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
>>> 
>>> The all-new iPhone
>>> X
>>> is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed with
>>> is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a
>>> nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front Touch
>>> ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many
>>> phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead,
>>> the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for
>>> biometric security.
>>> Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts your
>>> face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple
>>> says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
>>> 
>>> None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
>>> 
>>> This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition feature,
>>> and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or accurate
>>> Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your face.
>>> This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint reader,
>>> which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
>>> 
>>> Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, you'll
>>> stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on
>>> the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
>>> "authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the phone and logged
>>> in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and it's
>>> already on and unlocked. By the time you bring the phone to your face, the
>>> unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.
>>> 
>>> To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your pocket,
>>> lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then can can you
>>> start the unlock process. The difference is probably one or two seconds, but
>>> for something you do 80 times a
>>> day,
>>> having the fastest possible unlock system really matters.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Example of how Face ID maps and learns your face.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Demo of Face ID setup.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Animojis, which move to mimic your facial expressions.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> 3D mask produced with facial recognition on the iPhone X.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Face ID recognition along 

5.8" iPhone X designed for two-handed use as Apple apparently drops support for Reachability

[Mary Otten]

Interesting that this change for the iPhone X is apparently going to have 
ramifications for other phones, not being able to swipe down from the top to 
access notification center. That's kind of a drag. I suppose there will be 
another way to do it.
Mary

5.8" iPhone X designed for two-handed use as Apple apparently drops support for 
Reachability
AppleInsider

 After years of resisting the trend of larger phones, Apple has now fully 
embraced two-handed smartphone use with the iPhone X, as the device apparently 
lacks Reachability —a feature first introduced three years ago with the iPhone 
6.

 


When the iPhone 5 launched in 2012, it marked the first time that Apple 
expanded the screen size of its smartphone, going from 3.5 inches to 4. To 
justify the change, Apple made a commercial narrated by Jeff Daniels, 
showcasing how an average person's thumb could reach all four corners of the 
device when being used one handed.

The commercial concluded by calling the design of the iPhone 5 "a dazzling 
display of common sense."


At the time, larger smartphones running Android were flooding the market, and 
gaining some popularity, as some users showed a preference for large displays 
that could show more content.

The 4-inch display eventually gave way to not one but two larger handsets in 
2014: the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus. Not coincidentally, the iPhone 6 series 
also represented tremendous growth for Apple, as consumers who had been waiting 
for a big-screen iPhone finally got their wish.

 


Still, Apple didn't want to abandon its dedication to one-handed use, and so 
alongside the iPhone 6 came a new feature dubbed "Reachability," which brings 
the top of the display down to a more manageable area for a thumb to reach. To 
invoke this, users tap —but do not press —the home button twice, allowing for a 
single touch on the screen before automatically re-expanding to full-size.

But the new iPhone X doesn't have a physical home button, and according to iOS 
11 digging by developer Guilherme Rambo, there is not currently any support for 
Reachability on the new hardware.

While that could change ahead of launch, other tweaks to iOS suggest one-handed 
use is no longer a priority.

The iPhone X also utilizes a new gesture to multitask and return to the home 
screen, requiring users to swipe up from the bottom of the screen. This means 
that Control Center is no longer accessed from the bottom of the screen with 
the iPhone X.

Instead, users must swipe down from the upper right "notch" corner on the 
display to access Control Center. For users who use Control Center for quick 
actions like HomeKit controls, flashlight, media playback and more, the radical 
design change of the iPhone X will force a change in habit.

Further, the one-handed use changes don't just affect the iPhone X. Using 
Reachability on a Plus-sized iPhone running the golden master of iOS 11, users 
cannot swipe down from the top of the display to invoke Notification Center.

 


Interestingly, iOS 11 does offer one concession for one-handed users: A new 
one-handed keyboard option that makes it easier to type by cramming the virtual 
keys onto one side of the device.

The market has shown that users prefer bigger phone screens, and the iPhone X 
satisfies that trend with the largest iPhone screen ever, measuring 5.8 inches 
diagonally.

For those who prefer one-handed use occasionally, or basically require it for 
accessibility reasons, the iPhone 8 and iPhone 8 Plus are still available. 
Apple even continues to sell the legacy iPhone 7 and iPhone 6s series models. 
And the iPhone SE offers a no-compromises one-handed experience for users who 
consider that a must-have.

But the debut of the iPhone X might be an indication that Apple's catering to 
one-handed iPhone use is a thing of the past.



Original Article: 
http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/09/13/58-iphone-x-designed-for-two-handed-use-as-apple-apparently-drops-support-for-reachability


Sent from my iPhone

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list.

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feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

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macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
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Apple's New Face ID Biometric System Works in the Dark and When Your Face is Obscured by Hats and Beards

[Mary Otten]

Apple's New Face ID Biometric System Works in the Dark and When Your Face is 
Obscured by Hats and Beards
MacRumors: Mac News and Rumors  /  Juli Clover

In the new iPhone X, Face ID, a facial recognition system, replaces the Touch 
ID fingerprint sensor we've grown accustomed to since it was introduced in the 
iPhone 5s. 

Because Face ID is a new biometric system, there are a lot of questions about 
its accuracy and how it will work in various conditions, all of which Apple has 
answered both in the keynote and on its website. 

 
How Face ID Scans Your Face


Face ID is enabled through a TrueDepth front-facing camera on the iPhone X, 
which has multiple components. A Dot Projector projects more than 30,000 
invisible dots onto your face to map its structure. 

 
The dot map is then read by an infrared camera and the structure of your face 
is relayed to the A11 Bionic chip in the iPhone X and transformed into a 
mathematical model. The A11 chip then compares your facial structure to the 
facial scan stored in the iPhone X during the setup process. 

 
As with Touch ID, if there is a match between the two face scans, the iPhone X 
will unlock. From there, you can swipe upwards to get to the Home screen. 

Face ID in the Dark


Face ID uses infrared to scan your face, so it works in low lighting conditions 
and in the dark. The TrueDepth camera also has what Apple calls a "Flood 
Illuminator," aka an infrared light that illuminates your face in the dark so 
the dot map and the infrared camera can do their jobs. 

Fooling Face ID


First of all, Face ID can't be fooled by a photo because it takes a 3D facial 
scan to unlock a device. Face ID is also "attention aware," a feature Apple 
implemented for extra security. 

Face ID will only unlock your device when you look in the direction of the 
iPhone X with your eyes open, meaning Face ID only works when there's a live 
person in front of it. Attention aware is optional, though, and can be turned 
off if you choose. Most people will want to leave attention awareness on, but 
for users unable to focus their attention on the iPhone, turning it off will 
allow the iPhone X to unlock with just a facial scan. 

Face ID is also sensitive enough to tell the difference between you and someone 
who is wearing a mask of your face. Apple trained Face ID with hyperrealistic 
masks created by Hollywood studios, ensuring a mask of a person wouldn't be 
able to fool the Face ID system. 

 
According to Apple, Face ID is more secure than Touch ID because there are 
slimmer chances of a mismatch. There's a 1 in 50,000 chance someone will be 
able to unlock your iPhone with their fingerprint, but a 1 in 1,000,000 chance 
someone else's face will fool Face ID. That doesn't count for twins, though -- 
if you have an identical twin, that error rate increases. 

Touch ID locks a device after five failed attempts, but with Face ID, Apple is 
only allowing two failed attempts. After two incorrect scans, the iPhone X will 
lock and require your passcode to unlock again. 

Face ID With Hats, Beards, Makeup, and Glasses


Face ID works with hats, beards, glasses, scarves, and other accessories that 
partially obscure the face. According to Apple, this is because the A11 Bionic 
chip in the iPhone X uses machine learning and a neural engine to recognize 
changes in your appearance. 

It's also likely that Face ID, like other facial recognition systems, has a 
match threshold that's below 100 percent, so even with part of the face not 
visible, it recognizes the part that is visible. 

 
Face ID also adapts to changes in your appearance over time, so it will 
continue to recognize you as you grow a beard or grow your hair longer. 

One caveat -- Apple doesn't mention sunglasses. There's a chance that Face ID 
doesn't work when wearing sunglasses because it obscures your eyes, and eye 
contact is required for unlocking the device. Attention aware can be disabled, 
though, so Face ID may work with sunglasses in that situation. 

Face ID When Unconscious or Sleeping


If someone knocks you unconscious or attempts to unlock your iPhone X with your 
face while you're sleeping, it's not going to work. 

As mentioned above, you need to look at your iPhone for Face ID to grant access 
to your device. 

Face ID Privacy


On iPhones with Touch ID, your fingerprint data is stored in a Secure Enclave 
on the device, and the same is true of Face ID. Your facial map is encrypted 
and kept in the Secure Enclave, with authentication happening entirely on your 
device. No Face ID data is uploaded to iCloud or sent to Apple. 

Multiple Faces in Face ID


When using Touch ID, multiple fingerprints can be added to a device so more 
than one person can unlock it. That is not possible with Face ID. Face ID makes 
a map of a single face and that's the only face that can unlock the iPhone X. 
To add a new face, the existing face must be removed. 

Face ID at an Angle


You don't need to hold the iPhone X rig

Re: iTunes 12.7: How to cope with the abrupt changes

[matthew dyer]

Hi,

I think its about time that iTunes got a bit of a clean up as it seemed a bit 
of a cluttered app.  I can see why they got rid of it at least in my case as I 
don’t use some of the things they mention.  Oh well.  I think there is going to 
be a time where things will be split into separate apps like they do with mail 
and calendar etc.

Matthew


> On Sep 13, 2017, at 10:58 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> 
> iTunes 12.7: How to cope with the abrupt changes
> Macworld  /  Glenn Fleishman
> 
> iTunes 12.7 appeared Tuesday 
> 
>  following Apple’s slate of product announcements 
> ,
>  and its version number hides how much that’s disappeared and changed in this 
> release. The iOS App Store is wiped out, as are ringtones. iTunes U and 
> Internet Radio have moved locations. And iTunes for Windows lost its ability 
> to manage books in iOS.
> 
> IDG
> The first time you launch iTunes 12.7, it gives you this hilarious bit of 
> fluff about the changes made.
> 
> While many people have argued iTunes’ feature creep over the years had made 
> it an increasingly odd sack of unrelated items, this shift doesn’t come with 
> commensurate improvements or additions elsewhere in macOS, and may cause some 
> difficulties for people with modest Internet throughput or low bandwidth 
> caps, which can affect people across both the developed world (more the U.S. 
> than elsewhere) and the developing one.
> 
> The biggest hit is to the iOS App Store in iTunes, which was always a strange 
> fit. iOS apps were in iTunes, because iTunes was once the only way to manage 
> content. But you’ll have to adjust your behavior and find new places to carry 
> out activities you might have before. Let’s go through the changes.
> 
> What to do about no iOS apps in iTunes 12.7
> 
> The App Store in iTunes is kaput and there’s nothing you can do about, so dry 
> your tears and let’s move on. Apple doesn’t let it go neatly out the door, 
> however. After updating, I found that 5GB of “.ipa” files—the file format for 
> apps—remained in my home directory (in ~/Music/iTunes Library/Mobile 
> Applications/). You can throw those away unless you’re nostalgic.
> 
> If you were used to syncing your apps via iTunes and making purchases in 
> macOS to sync back, that capability is now restricted to iOS. You won’t 
> consume more bandwidth downloading an app via iOS than macOS—unless you have 
> multiple iOS devices syncing the same apps to a single Mac.
> 
> Where it will really hurt is if and when you need to restore an iPhone or 
> iPad. You can still perform iTunes backups, but the restore won’t transfer 
> apps from your Mac, but instead re-download them over the Internet from 
> Apple. That can easily consume gigabytes of bandwidth, depending on your app 
> choices. Many users download few apps, or those apps that are relatively 
> modest, and this won’t be as big a hit.
> 
> There’s no way to bypass or minimize this problem. If you have any kinds of 
> restrictions on your internet service—whether in performance or limits—you 
> should consider using a public Wi-Fi hotspot or the Wi-Fi of a friend without 
> those limits. You’ll need to plan ahead when you wipe and want to restore an 
> iOS device.
> 
> You might wonder what happened to File Transfers, a hack that Apple 
> introduced many years ago to allow iOS apps to sync data back and forth with 
> a Mac before iCloud Drive, Dropbox, Google Drive, and other methods were 
> readily available. It remains: with an iOS device connected, click its icon 
> in the area below the playback bar, and then click File Sharing in the 
> navigation list at left.
> 
> IDG
> File Transfers remains, even though apps are gone.
> 
> Other changes in iTunes 12.7
> 
> Ringtones are no longer managed as purchases in iTunes, but you can find 
> previously downloaded ones and manage those in iTunes. Apple says any 
> downloaded ringtones are in the ~/Music/iTunes Library/Tones/ folder. And if 
> you select your device in iTunes, you can click the Tones item under On My 
> Device to remove and add them.
> 
> In iOS 11, coming shortly, Apple will let you re-downloaded previously 
> purchased ringtones  and manage 
> them directly on the device.
> 
> IDG
> You can pick what shows up in the music library sidebar, including Internet 
> Radio.
> 
> iTunes U content was moved to podcasts in iTunes, while Internet Radio is now 
> part of the music library sidebar. If you’re not seeing Internet Radio, 
> Control-click on the music sidebar, choose Edit List, and check the Internet 
> Radio box. (While there, you can opt to include or exclude other items.)
> 
> Finally, Windows users will find themselves paging through their version of 
> iTu

Re: Apple's New Face ID Biometric System Works in the Dark and When Your Face is Obscured by Hats and Beards

[the . big . apple . nerd]

Amazing email. I am very interested in trying this



Maria Reyes Owner of the following groups- Apple 411: 
apple411+subscribe@groups.ioiMessage/FaceTime: the.big.apple.n...@gmail.com





On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 4:48 PM -0400, "Mary Otten"  wrote:











Apple's New Face ID Biometric System Works in the Dark and When Your Face is 
Obscured by Hats and Beards
MacRumors: Mac News and Rumors  /  Juli Clover
In the new iPhone X, Face ID, a facial recognition system, replaces the Touch 
ID fingerprint sensor we've grown accustomed to since it was introduced in the 
iPhone 5s.




Because Face ID is a new biometric system, there are a lot of questions about 
its accuracy and how it will work in various conditions, all of which Apple has 
answered both in the keynote and on its website.







How Face ID Scans Your Face


Face ID is enabled through a TrueDepth front-facing camera on the iPhone X, 
which has multiple components. A Dot Projector projects more than 30,000 
invisible dots onto your face to map its structure.







The dot map is then read by an infrared camera and the structure of your face 
is relayed to the A11 Bionic chip in the iPhone X and transformed into a 
mathematical model. The A11 chip then compares your facial structure to the 
facial scan stored in the iPhone X during the setup process.







As with Touch ID, if there is a match between the two face scans, the iPhone X 
will unlock. From there, you can swipe upwards to get to the Home screen.




Face ID in the Dark


Face ID uses infrared to scan your face, so it works in low lighting conditions 
and in the dark. The TrueDepth camera also has what Apple calls a "Flood 
Illuminator," aka an infrared light that illuminates your face in the dark so 
the dot map and the infrared camera can do their jobs.




Fooling Face ID


First of all, Face ID can't be fooled by a photo because it takes a 3D facial 
scan to unlock a device. Face ID is also "attention aware," a feature Apple 
implemented for extra security.




Face ID will only unlock your device when you look in the direction of the 
iPhone X with your eyes open, meaning Face ID only works when there's a live 
person in front of it. Attention aware is optional, though, and can be turned 
off if you choose. Most people will want to leave attention awareness on, but 
for users unable to focus their attention on the iPhone, turning it off will 
allow the iPhone X to unlock with just a facial scan.




Face ID is also sensitive enough to tell the difference between you and someone 
who is wearing a mask of your face. Apple trained Face ID with hyperrealistic 
masks created by Hollywood studios, ensuring a mask of a person wouldn't be 
able to fool the Face ID system.







According to Apple, Face ID is more secure than Touch ID because there are 
slimmer chances of a mismatch. There's a 1 in 50,000 chance someone will be 
able to unlock your iPhone with their fingerprint, but a 1 in 1,000,000 chance 
someone else's face will fool Face ID. That doesn't count for twins, though -- 
if you have an identical twin, that error rate increases.




Touch ID locks a device after five failed attempts, but with Face ID, Apple is 
only allowing two failed attempts. After two incorrect scans, the iPhone X will 
lock and require your passcode to unlock again.




Face ID With Hats, Beards, Makeup, and Glasses


Face ID works with hats, beards, glasses, scarves, and other accessories that 
partially obscure the face. According to Apple, this is because the A11 Bionic 
chip in the iPhone X uses machine learning and a neural engine to recognize 
changes in your appearance.




It's also likely that Face ID, like other facial recognition systems, has a 
match threshold that's below 100 percent, so even with part of the face not 
visible, it recognizes the part that is visible.







Face ID also adapts to changes in your appearance over time, so it will 
continue to recognize you as you grow a beard or grow your hair longer.




One caveat -- Apple doesn't mention sunglasses. There's a chance that Face ID 
doesn't work when wearing sunglasses because it obscures your eyes, and eye 
contact is required for unlocking the device. Attention aware can be disabled, 
though, so Face ID may work with sunglasses in that situation.




Face ID When Unconscious or Sleeping


If someone knocks you unconscious or attempts to unlock your iPhone X with your 
face while you're sleeping, it's not going to work.




As mentioned above, you need to look at your iPhone for Face ID to grant access 
to your device.




Face ID Privacy


On iPhones with Touch ID, your fingerprint data is stored in a Secure Enclave 
on the device, and the same is true of Face ID. Your facial map is encrypted 
and kept in the Secure Enclave, with authentication happening entirely on your 
device. No Face ID data

[no subject]

[Mary Otten]

Sent from my iPhone

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The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[David Chittenden]

There are a couple modes for FaceID. The most secure mode requires one to 
actually look at the phone to unlock it. For those who cannot look at the 
phone, this more secure factor can be deactivated. Then, the iPhone merely 
needs to see the face to unlock. Of course, the passcode is always an option, 
and a requirement after two failed face unlock attempts.

As to the other comments, if one wishes to switch to Android, please do so. 
When I have played with Samsung phones at the store, they have appeared to be 
more accessible than other Android devices. That said, be aware that the 
accessibility is not as full or robust as with iOS. I have a couple Android 
tablets. In my experience, unless one wishes to spend significantly more money 
on a HumanWare, Hims, or other specially modified Android braille note taker, 
be prepared for significant challenges.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 14/09/2017, at 06:34, Eric Oyen  wrote:
> 
> there is one additional issue: what happens if VO is not turned on? how are 
> you supposed to know that your face is on screen? I am totally blind and even 
> with VO turned on and the camera aimed at my face, I can never get it 
> centered. so, facial recognition might not be a disable thing for me.
> 
> Anyway, outside of that, I am not sure that the $1k price tag will make the 
> iPhone worth it. I have a 7 plus now and its going to take me 3 years to pay 
> it off. Also, given some of Apple's intentions of late with regard to DRM, 
> security, right to repair, etc, I am starting to lean toward getting an 
> android phone with similar capabilities and about 1/3rd the cost. I don't 
> want to have to do this, but if Apple doesn't start doing things in a more 
> reasonable fashion, I will be left with no other choice.
> 
> -eric
> 
>> On Sep 12, 2017, at 11:05 PM, E.T. wrote:
>> 
>>  All done with Gestures.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>> "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>> mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>> our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>> and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
>> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 9/12/2017 11:03 PM, 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>>> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
>>> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
>>> going home could be done with gestures but what about
>>> starting/quitting VO...?
>>> Catherine
 On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
 Interesting,
 
 Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print
 sensor.
 
 Why can’t apple do that also.
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
 Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
 To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
 viph...@googlegroups.com
 Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
 
 
 I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
 Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
 
 [Image removed by sender.]
 Enlarge /
 This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
 
 The all-new iPhone
 X
 is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed with
 is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a
 nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front 
 Touch
 ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many
 phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead,
 the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for
 biometric security.
 Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts your
 face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple
 says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
 
 None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
 
 This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition feature,
 and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or accurate
 Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your face.
 This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint reader,
 which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
 
 Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, 
 you'll
 stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on
 the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
 "authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the 

Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[David Chittenden]

There are three things which the iPhone X has that the 8 and 8+ do not have: 
the depth aware infrared module with IR flood which recognises one's face, the 
edge to edge display which gives the screen real-estate of greater than the + 
phone in a size which is just a little taller than the 8, and physical image 
stabilisation on the zoom camera module.

The depth module is in my opinion, the most important of the three things. If 
it is accessible to other apps, it can be used for very accurate measurements, 
detecting shape and size of obsticles in one's path when walking, and so forth.

The second most useful feature is the effectively plus-sized battery life in 
the standard sized phone (why I will get one using my mobile plan's upgrade 
option). I was unable to get a 7+ last year (out of stock at the time), and my 
phone does not make it throughout the day without a couple recharges. Then 
again, the iPhone is my primary computer.
Finally, the larger screen means more info available without needing to scroll.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 13/09/2017, at 19:02, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> The only negative I really see with the x is the new Zealand price tag,
>  
> The other features sound great but the 8 and 8+ have majority of the x 
> features
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Krister Ekstrom
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 7:42 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>  
> Why do blind people always have to invent worst case scenarios even when the 
> phone hasn’t come out yet? Ok, ok before you say anything i was also doubtful 
> for many years, wondering how Apple would solve this or that, turned out they 
> did and did it good at that.
> At tha risk of getting flamed, but hell i’ve been that before and survived, 
> one thing the apple user base could learn from the Android one is to show 
> some appreciation for what is being done. Every time Talkback comes out, even 
> if its features are virtually useless for some, they get praise, but every 
> time Voiceover comes out the negative always outways the positive and it 
> lasts for months on end. Is Voiceover really *that* bad or am i stupid and 
> unintelligent, and if it sucks so hard, why is it that after eight months in 
> Android land i left probably not to return again and went back to iOs?
> /Krister
>  
> 
> 
> 13 sep. 2017 kl. 08:03 skrev 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries 
> :
>  
> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
> going home could be done with gestures but what about
> starting/quitting VO...?
> 
> Catherine
> 
> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Interesting,
> 
> Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print
> sensor.
> 
> Why can’t apple do that also.
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
> viph...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
> 
> 
> I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
> Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
> 
> [Image removed by sender.]
> Enlarge /
> This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
> 
> The all-new iPhone
> X
> is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed with
> is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a
> nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front Touch
> ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many
> phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead,
> the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for
> biometric security.
> Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts your
> face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple
> says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
> 
> None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
> 
> This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition feature,
> and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or accurate
> Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your face.
> This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint reader,
> which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
> 
> Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, you'll
> stick your hand in y

Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[David Chittenden]

No, not at all. Apple stated that fingerprints have 1 in 50,000 chance of being 
fooled. Face prints have 1 in 1 million chance of being fooled. So yes, the 
chance is there, which means, it will be fooled eventually. But, the chances 
are considerably lower.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 13/09/2017, at 19:01, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> SO david are you saying that the apple face ID can’t be fooled?
>  
> I’d say that give it till xmas and someone will have done it.
> As for the finger print sensor
> The apple one can be fooled now with other body parts
> Biometric scanning is still rather new so it’s really a wait and see,
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 6:20 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>  
> The Samsung face recognition can be tricked with a picture of the person's 
> face. In fact, there are YouTube videos showing people taking selfies with 
> one phone and then using the selfie picture onscreen to unlock the Samsung 
> face recognition. That is nicely secure, don't you think?
>  
> As for the fingerprint sensor, I have read several complaints from people 
> that they often touch the camera rather than the fingerprint sensor.
> 
> Kind regards,
>  
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 13/09/2017, at 14:02, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Interesting,
>  
> Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print 
> sensor.
>  
> Why can’t apple do that also.
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; 
> viph...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>  
>  
> I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
> Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
> 
> <~WRD000.jpg>
> Enlarge / This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
> The all-new iPhone X is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing 
> it's not packed with is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the 
> iPhone X goes for a nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more 
> room for a front Touch ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on 
> the back, like many phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID 
> entirely. Instead, the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial 
> recognition feature for biometric security.
> 
> Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts your 
> face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple 
> says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
> None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
> 
> This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition feature, 
> and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or accurate 
> Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your face. 
> This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint reader, 
> which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
> 
> Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, you'll 
> stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on the 
> fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an 
> "authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the phone and logged 
> in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and it's 
> already on and unlocked. By the time you bring the phone to your face, the 
> unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.
> 
> To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your pocket, 
> lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then can can you 
> start the unlock process. The difference is probably one or two seconds, but 
> for something you do 80 times a day, having the fastest possible unlock 
> system really matters.
> 
> <~WRD000.jpg>
> Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system.
> <~WRD000.jpg>
> Example of how Face ID maps and learns your face.
> <~WRD000.jpg>
> Demo of Face ID setup.
> <~WRD000.jpg>
> Animojis, which move to mimic your facial expressions.
> <~WRD000.jpg>
> 3D mask produced with facial recognition on the iPhone X.
> <~WRD000.jpg>
> Face ID recognition along with a tap of the side button can authenticate 
> Apple Pay.
> Consider authenticating with Apple Pay. With a fingerprint reader, you can 
> slam your iPhone on the credit card terminal while holding your finger on the 
> Touch ID button, and everything will just work. You're continuously 
> a

Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[David Chittenden]

Things often look quite good from the specs. Really play with the Samsung 
device in the store before purchase. I found too many problems with the screen 
reader the last time I did so (I was also looking just at specs). I have not 
yet tried the Samsung Galaxy 8 in the store, but will do so in the next few 
weeks.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 13/09/2017, at 18:57, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> 
> The voice over off / on triple click will move to the power button as has the 
> siri button,
> 
> But looking at the specs,
> 
> I'm not sure the screen changes are worth the 350 dollar price hike from the 
> 8+ 256 GB device,
> 
> I know for me the 64 GB device is not enough storage,
> 
> So that leaves me with the 256,
> 
> And the specs on the 8 and 8+ don't seem that different from the 10.
> Except for the screen.but 2099 nz dollars is just a bit over the top for a 
> device that Samsung have for 2/3 of the price but with pretty much the same 
> features and including the finger print sensor.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 6:03 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
> 
> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the app 
> switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and going home 
> could be done with gestures but what about starting/quitting VO...?
> 
> Catherine
> 
>> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> Interesting,
>> 
>> Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger 
>> print sensor.
>> 
>> Why can’t apple do that also.
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
>> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; 
>> viph...@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>> 
>> 
>> I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why Ars Technica  
>> /  Ron Amadeo
>> 
>> [Image removed by sender.]
>> Enlarge> g> / This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
>> 
>> The all-new iPhone
>> X> martphone-is-called-the-iphone-x/>
>> is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed 
>> with is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X 
>> goes for a nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room 
>> for a front Touch ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor 
>> on the back, like many phones have done, Apple chose to do away with 
>> Touch ID entirely. Instead, the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" 
>> facial recognition feature for biometric security.
>> Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts 
>> your face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 
>> 3D. Apple says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your 
>> phone.
>> 
>> None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
>> 
>> This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition 
>> feature, and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how 
>> fast or accurate Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim 
>> it at your face.
>> This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint 
>> reader, which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
>> 
>> Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good, 
>> you'll stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your 
>> finger lands on the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" 
>> button and an "authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on 
>> the phone and logged in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of 
>> your pocket yet, and it's already on and unlocked. By the time you 
>> bring the phone to your face, the unlock process is finished and you're 
>> looking at the home screen.
>> 
>> To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your 
>> pocket, lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then 
>> can can you start the unlock process. The difference is probably one 
>> or two seconds, but for something you do 80 times a 
>> day> 2>, having the fastest possible unlock system really matters.
>> [Image removed by sender.]
>> Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system.
>> [Image removed by sender.]
>> Example of how Face ID maps and learns your face.
>> [Image removed by sender.]
>> Demo of Face ID setup.
>> [Image removed by sender.]
>> Animojis, which move to mimic your facial expressions.
>> [Imag

Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[David Chittenden]

All the reviews I have read thus far state faceID is quicker than touchID.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 14/09/2017, at 04:52, Mika Pyyhkala  wrote:
> 
> I believe it will "work," but I am worried about the extra .75 to 1.25
> of a second that may be needed every time one wants to unlock the
> phone.  I could be wrong, but it seems like touch id would be faster,
> and it can be accessed with the phone in a lot of different
> configurations and placements.  I also wish they had included a
> fingerprint sensor on the back of the phone.
> 
> I would be curious though to hear from someone that embraces this
> change and feels its overall a positive development, especially with
> the blind use case.
> 
> I would note it failed at the keynote demo just as one small data point.
> 
> I can only hope that my initial thoughts about Face id are wrong and
> that perhaps it is just as fast or faster than touch id.  Or that in a
> future release Apple will indeed bring a touch id sensor to say the
> back of the device.
> 
> After all, they do slowly push out features so there is a reason to
> upgrade every year.
> 
> I will 99% buy the iPhone 8 as a result, otherwise if it had touch id
> I would have bought the X.
> 
> Best,
> Mika
> 
> On 9/13/17, 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries
>  wrote:
>> I too get sick when people whine - including when people whine about
>> words/sentiments that weren't even expressed in the first place.
>> 
>> I didn't want to start people off venting about the problems of the
>> blindness community.  I only wondered how the quitting/loading of VO
>> and accessing home and the app switcher could be done without a home
>> button - wondering how something can be done does not equal saying it
>> can't be done.  I am curious and hopeful to see how this pans out; at
>> the same time, yes, a little concerned as sometimes when changes
>> happen, usability can become problematic or other problems arise - but
>> I am not whining.  I am wondering and imagining and questioning, and
>> there is nothing wrong with that.
>> 
>> Catherine
>> 
>>> On 9/13/17, Raymond Foret Jr  wrote:
>>> I’m backing my friend Krister on this point.  Frankly, I am getting just
>>> plain sick and tired of al these blind people whining that something is
>>> going to suck or not be usable even before we know all the details of how
>>> it
>>> works.  Talk about a drain on one’s energy.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from the only computer with built-in screen reader access for the
>>> blind:
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> The constantly barefooted Ray
>>> 
 On Sep 13, 2017, at 2:41 AM, Krister Ekstrom 
 wrote:
 
 Why do blind people always have to invent worst case scenarios even when
 the phone hasn’t come out yet? Ok, ok before you say anything i was also
 doubtful for many years, wondering how Apple would solve this or that,
 turned out they did and did it good at that.
 At tha risk of getting flamed, but hell i’ve been that before and
 survived, one thing the apple user base could learn from the Android one
 is to show some appreciation for what is being done. Every time Talkback
 comes out, even if its features are virtually useless for some, they get
 praise, but every time Voiceover comes out the negative always outways
 the
 positive and it lasts for months on end. Is Voiceover really *that* bad
 or
 am i stupid and unintelligent, and if it sucks so hard, why is it that
 after eight months in Android land i left probably not to return again
 and
 went back to iOs?
 /Krister
 
 
> 13 sep. 2017 kl. 08:03 skrev 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries
>  >:
> 
> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
> going home could be done with gestures but what about
> starting/quitting VO...?
> 
> Catherine
> 
> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  > wrote:
>> Interesting,
>> 
>> Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger
>> print
>> sensor.
>> 
>> Why can’t apple do that also.
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> ] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
>> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org ;
>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> ;
>> viph...@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>> 
>> 
>> I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
>

Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suc k—and here’s why

[Robin]

If you are referring to Samsung's Android 
Devices, They aren't as Cheap or InExpenssive 
simply $100 or $150 Lower Than Apple's iPhones, & 
I'm specifically referring to the High End 
Premium Galaxy S Series & Galaxy Note Series of Android Devices

At 01:34 PM 9/13/2017, you wrote:
there is one additional issue: what happens if 
VO is not turned on? how are you supposed to 
know that your face is on screen? I am totally 
blind and even with VO turned on and the camera 
aimed at my face, I can never get it centered. 
so, facial recognition might not be a disable thing for me.


Anyway, outside of that, I am not sure that the 
$1k price tag will make the iPhone worth it. I 
have a 7 plus now and its going to take me 3 
years to pay it off. Also, given some of Apple's 
intentions of late with regard to DRM, security, 
right to repair, etc, I am starting to lean 
toward getting an android phone with similar 
capabilities and about 1/3rd the cost. I don't 
want to have to do this, but if Apple doesn't 
start doing things in a more reasonable fashion, 
I will be left with no other choice.


-eric

On Sep 12, 2017, at 11:05 PM, E.T. wrote:

>   All done with Gestures.
>
> From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
>  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
>  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
>  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
>  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
> E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>
> On 9/12/2017 11:03 PM, 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries wrote:
>> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
>> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
>> going home could be done with gestures but what about
>> starting/quitting VO...?
>> Catherine
>> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>>> Interesting,
>>>
>>> Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger print
>>> sensor.
>>>
>>> Why can’t apple do that also.
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
>>> To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
>>> viph...@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and hhere’s why
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here ™s why
>>> Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
>>>
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> 
Enlarge /

>>> This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
>>>
>>> The all-new iPhone
>>> 
X
>>> is out, and it's packed with technology. 
But one thing it's not packed with
>>> is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones 
in 2017, the iPhone X goes for a
>>> nearly all-screen design, which means 
there's no more room for a front Touch

>>> ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like many
>>> phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely. Instead,
>>> the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature for
>>> biometric security.
>>> Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" 
camera setup, which blasts your

>>> face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D. Apple
>>> says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
>>>
>>> None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
>>>
>>> This is not the first phone we've tried 
with a facial recognition feature,
>>> and they all have the same problem. It 
doesn't matter how fast or accurate
>>> Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: 
you need to aim it at your face.
>>> This is slow and awkward, especially when 
compared to a fingerprint reader,

>>> which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
>>>
>>> Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" 
use case: If you're good, you'll

>>> stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands on
>>> the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
>>> "authentication" button. In one touch, 
you've turned on the phone and logged
>>> in. You haven't even fully taken the phone 
out of your pocket yet, and it's
>>> already on and unlocked. By the time you 
bring the phone to your face, the

>>> unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.
>>>
>>> To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have 
take the phone out of your pocket,
>>> lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn 
it on, and only then can can you
>>> start the unlock process. The difference is 
probably one or two seconds, but

>>> for something you do 80 times a
>>> day,
>>> having the fastest possible unlock system really matters.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system.
>>> [Image removed by sender.]
>>> Example of how Face ID maps and lear

Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[David Chittenden]

Turn VoiceOver on/off, triple press the power button. Siri is activated by 
doing something with the power button as well. I believe it is long press of 
power button. I am unsure how the phone will be turned off if that is the case. 
It may be that Siri is activated by double press of the power button.

For sighted folk, sliding up from the bottom of the display is the new home 
button gesture. Sliding up from the bottom of the display and pausing before 
lifting one's finger from the phone invokes the app switcher. It will be 
interesting to see if these are the same for VO.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 14/09/2017, at 04:28, 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> Excuse me but I wasn't "inventing worse case scenarios".  I was
> reasonably and legitimately wondering how we will do certain things
> without the home button, not saying we wouldn't be able to - I
> speculated on how it could be done.  And by the way I am pleased with
> Voiceover, though it has problems as well.  You inferred a lot from my
> message that wasn't actually there.
> 
> Catherine
> 
>> On 9/13/17, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
>> Why do blind people always have to invent worst case scenarios even when the
>> phone hasn’t come out yet? Ok, ok before you say anything i was also
>> doubtful for many years, wondering how Apple would solve this or that,
>> turned out they did and did it good at that.
>> At tha risk of getting flamed, but hell i’ve been that before and survived,
>> one thing the apple user base could learn from the Android one is to show
>> some appreciation for what is being done. Every time Talkback comes out,
>> even if its features are virtually useless for some, they get praise, but
>> every time Voiceover comes out the negative always outways the positive and
>> it lasts for months on end. Is Voiceover really *that* bad or am i stupid
>> and unintelligent, and if it sucks so hard, why is it that after eight
>> months in Android land i left probably not to return again and went back to
>> iOs?
>> /Krister
>> 
>> 
>>> 13 sep. 2017 kl. 08:03 skrev 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries
>>> :
>>> 
>>> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
>>> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
>>> going home could be done with gestures but what about
>>> starting/quitting VO...?
>>> 
>>> Catherine
>>> 
>>> On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty >> > wrote:
 Interesting,
 
 Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger
 print
 sensor.
 
 Why can’t apple do that also.
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
 Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
 To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
 viph...@googlegroups.com
 Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
 
 
 I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
 Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
 
 [Image removed by sender.]
 Enlarge> /
 This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
 
 The all-new iPhone
 X>
 is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed
 with
 is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for
 a
 nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front
 Touch
 ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like
 many
 phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely.
 Instead,
 the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature
 for
 biometric security.
 Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts
 your
 face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D.
 Apple
 says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
 
 None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
 
 This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition
 feature,
 and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or
 accurate
 Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your
 face.
 This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint
 reader,
 which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
 
 Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good,
 you'll
 

Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[David Chittenden]

My apologies. I have seen many doom and gloom responses over the past day, and 
was in a rather negative interpretation space when I responded.

I have a few Android tablets. None of them have home buttons, and the 
functionality of the home button is always available.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 14/09/2017, at 04:22, 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don't think my questions were actually a "doom and gloom response".
> I was merely wondering how these things would be done with no home
> button, not saying it was impossible or terrible.   it and hopeful that an easy, user-friendly alternative will be
> present.
> 
> Catherine
> 
>> On 9/13/17, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> Start/stop VO will most likely be triple press of the power button.
>> 
>> App switcher is easy, as is home button.
>> 
>> I always find these doom and gloom responses which always come up to be
>> quite amusing.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +61 488 988 936
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 13/09/2017, at 16:03, 'Catherine Turner' via MacVisionaries
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Also without a home button I wonder how we'll start/stop VO, use the
>>> app switcher and get to home.  Probably using the app switcher and
>>> going home could be done with gestures but what about
>>> starting/quitting VO...?
>>> 
>>> Catherine
>>> 
 On 9/13/17, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
 Interesting,
 
 Samsung have a full screen no buttons face recognition and a finger
 print
 sensor.
 
 Why can’t apple do that also.
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mary Otten
 Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 3:40 PM
 To: macvoiceo...@freelists.org; macvisionaries@googlegroups.com;
 viph...@googlegroups.com
 Subject: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
 
 
 I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why
 Ars Technica  /  Ron Amadeo
 
 [Image removed by sender.]
 Enlarge
 /
 This right here. This gesture. Doing this 80 times a day sucks.
 
 The all-new iPhone
 X
 is out, and it's packed with technology. But one thing it's not packed
 with
 is a fingerprint sensor. Like many phones in 2017, the iPhone X goes for
 a
 nearly all-screen design, which means there's no more room for a front
 Touch
 ID sensor. Rather than locate a fingerprint sensor on the back, like
 many
 phones have done, Apple chose to do away with Touch ID entirely.
 Instead,
 the X is relying only on the new "Face ID" facial recognition feature
 for
 biometric security.
 Face ID on the iPhone X uses a "TrueDepth" camera setup, which blasts
 your
 face with more than 30,000 infrared dots and scans your face in 3D.
 Apple
 says this can "recognize you in an instant" and log you into your phone.
 
 None of that matters. Face ID is still going to suck.
 
 This is not the first phone we've tried with a facial recognition
 feature,
 and they all have the same problem. It doesn't matter how fast or
 accurate
 Face ID is, the problem is the ergonomics: you need to aim it at your
 face.
 This is slow and awkward, especially when compared to a fingerprint
 reader,
 which doesn't have to be aimed at anything.
 
 Consider the "taking it out of your pocket" use case: If you're good,
 you'll
 stick your hand in your pocket and grip the phone so your finger lands
 on
 the fingerprint reader. Touch ID works as both an "on" button and an
 "authentication" button. In one touch, you've turned on the phone and
 logged
 in. You haven't even fully taken the phone out of your pocket yet, and
 it's
 already on and unlocked. By the time you bring the phone to your face,
 the
 unlock process is finished and you're looking at the home screen.
 
 To use the iPhone X's Face ID, you have take the phone out of your
 pocket,
 lift it up to your face, swipe up to turn it on, and only then can can
 you
 start the unlock process. The difference is probably one or two seconds,
 but
 for something you do 80 times a
 day,
 having the fastest possible unlock system really matters.
 [Image removed by sender.]
 Hardware involved in Apple's True Depth Camera system.
 [Image removed by sender.]
 Example of how Face ID maps and learns your face.
 [Image removed by sender.]
 Demo of Face ID setup.
 [Image removed by sender.]

Re: re faceID with vo

[John JD Denning]

Regarding the buyer was charging for the AirPods. You won't have to wait for a 
new AirPods. They'll be selling the Charging Case separately. I'm really glad 
they're going to do that. I'll be surprised if we see new AirPod hardware 
anytime soon. They can do a lot in software.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 08:25, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Re the face ID with voiceover issues,
> Well as in Jonathans email, it’s not going to be an issue,
>  
> May be the biggest issue will be getting your face in the direct line of the 
> front camera but it appears Apple have thought of that one also.
>  
> What it comes down to is what the user wants or more specifically requires in 
> their smart phone,
>  
> I’d love the x but hey it’s pricy here so it will be a big thing to think of 
> over the next 6 weeks.
>  
> Worst case is I wait till September next year when they bring out a new 
> version.
> Surely it can only be better.what I am waiting for is the Earpods series 2 
> which is seemingly going to have the wireless charging case that will work 
> with the airpad charging system as demonstrated in the keybote this morning,
> It would be great if I had one thing charging all devices watch, phone and 
> pods,
> I only then need to worry about my iPad mini,
>  
> I am wondering how we will get on using the ano emojis
> Which were demo’d in the presentation,
>  That will be interesting for us, but I’m sure apple figured that one out 
> also.
>  
>  
> -- 
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RE: Apple's New Face ID Biometric System Works in the Dark and When Your Face is Obscured by Hats and Beards

[David & his pack of dogs]

My only question is, will face recognision work if one has prosthetic eyes?  

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of the.big.apple.n...@gmail.com
Sent: September 13, 2017 2:23 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; viph...@googlegroups.com; 
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Apple's New Face ID Biometric System Works in the Dark and When 
Your Face is Obscured by Hats and Beards

 

Amazing email. I am very interested in trying this

 

Maria Reyes 

Owner of the following groups- 

Apple 411: apple411+subscr...@groups.io

iMessage/FaceTime: the.big.apple.n...@gmail.com





On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 4:48 PM -0400, "Mary Otten" mailto:motte...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Apple's New Face ID Biometric System Works in the Dark and When Your Face is 
Obscured by Hats and Beards

MacRumors: Mac News and Rumors  /  Juli Clover


In the new iPhone X, Face ID, a facial recognition system, replaces the Touch 
ID fingerprint sensor we've grown accustomed to since it was introduced in the 
iPhone 5s. 

Because Face ID is a new biometric system, there are a lot of questions about 
its accuracy and how it will work in various conditions, all of which Apple has 
answered both in the keynote and on its website. 




How Face ID Scans Your Face



Face ID is enabled through a TrueDepth front-facing camera on the iPhone X, 
which has multiple components. A Dot Projector projects more than 30,000 
invisible dots onto your face to map its structure. 


The dot map is then read by an infrared camera and the structure of your face 
is relayed to the A11 Bionic chip in the iPhone X and transformed into a 
mathematical model. The A11 chip then compares your facial structure to the 
facial scan stored in the iPhone X during the setup process. 


As with Touch ID, if there is a match between the two face scans, the iPhone X 
will unlock. From there, you can swipe upwards to get to the Home screen. 


Face ID in the Dark



Face ID uses infrared to scan your face, so it works in low lighting conditions 
and in the dark. The TrueDepth camera also has what Apple calls a "Flood 
Illuminator," aka an infrared light that illuminates your face in the dark so 
the dot map and the infrared camera can do their jobs. 


Fooling Face ID



First of all, Face ID can't be fooled by a photo because it takes a 3D facial 
scan to unlock a device. Face ID is also "attention aware," a feature Apple 
implemented for extra security. 

Face ID will only unlock your device when you look in the direction of the 
iPhone X with your eyes open, meaning Face ID only works when there's a live 
person in front of it. Attention aware is optional, though, and can be turned 
off if you choose. Most people will want to leave attention awareness on, but 
for users unable to focus their attention on the iPhone, turning it off will 
allow the iPhone X to unlock with just a facial scan. 

Face ID is also sensitive enough to tell the difference between you and someone 
who is wearing a mask of your face. Apple trained Face ID with hyperrealistic 
masks created by Hollywood studios, ensuring a mask of a person wouldn't be 
able to fool the Face ID system. 


According to Apple, Face ID is more secure than Touch ID because there are 
slimmer chances of a mismatch. There's a 1 in 50,000 chance someone will be 
able to unlock your iPhone with their fingerprint, but a 1 in 1,000,000 chance 
someone else's face will fool Face ID. That doesn't count for twins, though -- 
if you have an identical twin, that error rate increases. 

Touch ID locks a device after five failed attempts, but with Face ID, Apple is 
only allowing two failed attempts 

 . After two incorrect scans, the iPhone X will lock and require your passcode 
to unlock again. 


Face ID With Hats, Beards, Makeup, and Glasses



Face ID works with hats, beards, glasses, scarves, and other accessories that 
partially obscure the face. According to Apple, this is because the A11 Bionic 
chip in the iPhone X uses machine learning and a neural engine to recognize 
changes in your appearance. 

It's also likely that Face ID, like other facial recognition systems, has a 
match threshold that's below 100 percent, so even with part of the face not 
visible, it recognizes the part that is visible. 


Face ID also adapts to changes in your appearance over time, so it will 
continue to recognize you as you grow a beard or grow your hair longer. 

One caveat -- Apple doesn't mention sunglasses. There's a chance that Face ID 
doesn't work when wearing sunglasses because it obscures your eyes, and eye 
contact is required for unlocking the device. Attention aware can be disabled, 
though, so Face ID may work with sunglasses in that situation. 


Face ID When Unconscious or Sleeping



If someone knocks you unconscious or attempts to unlock your iPhone X

Re: Apple's New Face ID Biometric System Works in the Dark and When Your Face is Obscured by Hats and Beards

[David Chittenden]

Yes, it is faceID, not eyeID. It maps 30,000 locations on the face. Just 
remember, with prosthetic eyes, the more secure look at aspect of faceID will 
most probably not work.

Kind regards,

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +61 488 988 936
Sent from my iPhone

> On 14/09/2017, at 07:38, David & his pack of dogs  
> wrote:
> 
> My only question is, will face recognision work if one has prosthetic eyes? 
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> the.big.apple.n...@gmail.com
> Sent: September 13, 2017 2:23 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; viph...@googlegroups.com; 
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Apple's New Face ID Biometric System Works in the Dark and When 
> Your Face is Obscured by Hats and Beards
>  
> Amazing email. I am very interested in trying this
>  
> Maria Reyes
> Owner of the following groups-
> Apple 411: apple411+subscr...@groups.io
> iMessage/FaceTime: the.big.apple.n...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 4:48 PM -0400, "Mary Otten"  
> wrote:
> 
>  
> Apple's New Face ID Biometric System Works in the Dark and When Your Face is 
> Obscured by Hats and Beards
> MacRumors: Mac News and Rumors  /  Juli Clover
> 
> In the new iPhone X, Face ID, a facial recognition system, replaces the Touch 
> ID fingerprint sensor we've grown accustomed to since it was introduced in 
> the iPhone 5s. 
> 
> Because Face ID is a new biometric system, there are a lot of questions about 
> its accuracy and how it will work in various conditions, all of which Apple 
> has answered both in the keynote and on its website. 
> 
> 
> How Face ID Scans Your Face
> 
> 
> Face ID is enabled through a TrueDepth front-facing camera on the iPhone X, 
> which has multiple components. A Dot Projector projects more than 30,000 
> invisible dots onto your face to map its structure. 
> 
> 
> The dot map is then read by an infrared camera and the structure of your face 
> is relayed to the A11 Bionic chip in the iPhone X and transformed into a 
> mathematical model. The A11 chip then compares your facial structure to the 
> facial scan stored in the iPhone X during the setup process. 
> 
> 
> As with Touch ID, if there is a match between the two face scans, the iPhone 
> X will unlock. From there, you can swipe upwards to get to the Home screen.
> 
> Face ID in the Dark
> 
> 
> Face ID uses infrared to scan your face, so it works in low lighting 
> conditions and in the dark. The TrueDepth camera also has what Apple calls a 
> "Flood Illuminator," aka an infrared light that illuminates your face in the 
> dark so the dot map and the infrared camera can do their jobs.
> 
> Fooling Face ID
> 
> 
> First of all, Face ID can't be fooled by a photo because it takes a 3D facial 
> scan to unlock a device. Face ID is also "attention aware," a feature Apple 
> implemented for extra security. 
> 
> Face ID will only unlock your device when you look in the direction of the 
> iPhone X with your eyes open, meaning Face ID only works when there's a live 
> person in front of it. Attention aware is optional, though, and can be turned 
> off if you choose. Most people will want to leave attention awareness on, but 
> for users unable to focus their attention on the iPhone, turning it off will 
> allow the iPhone X to unlock with just a facial scan. 
> 
> Face ID is also sensitive enough to tell the difference between you and 
> someone who is wearing a mask of your face. Apple trained Face ID with 
> hyperrealistic masks created by Hollywood studios, ensuring a mask of a 
> person wouldn't be able to fool the Face ID system. 
> 
> 
> According to Apple, Face ID is more secure than Touch ID because there are 
> slimmer chances of a mismatch. There's a 1 in 50,000 chance someone will be 
> able to unlock your iPhone with their fingerprint, but a 1 in 1,000,000 
> chance someone else's face will fool Face ID. That doesn't count for twins, 
> though -- if you have an identical twin, that error rate increases. 
> 
> Touch ID locks a device after five failed attempts, but with Face ID, Apple 
> is only allowing two failed attempts. After two incorrect scans, the iPhone X 
> will lock and require your passcode to unlock again.
> 
> Face ID With Hats, Beards, Makeup, and Glasses
> 
> 
> Face ID works with hats, beards, glasses, scarves, and other accessories that 
> partially obscure the face. According to Apple, this is because the A11 
> Bionic chip in the iPhone X uses machine learning and a neural engine to 
> recognize changes in your appearance. 
> 
> It's also likely that Face ID, like other facial recognition systems, has a 
> match threshold that's below 100 percent, so even with part of the face not 
> visible, it recognizes the part that is visible. 
> 
> 
> Face ID also adapts to changes in your appearance over time, so it will 
> continue to recognize you as you grow a beard or grow your hair longer. 
> 
> One

Re: iTunes 12.7: How to cope with the abrupt changes

[E.T.]

   That is not a big change, its the loss of iOS app support in iTunes 
on the Mac.


From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 9/13/2017 12:41 PM, Matthew Dierckens wrote:
Cording to a friend of mine, you can copy and paste ringtones onto your 
phone with iTunes when it’s unlocked.


God bless.
Matt Dierckens,
Certified assistive technology specialist
Macintosh, iOS, and windows Trainor
Canadian phone: 519-962-9140
US phone: 573-401-1018


On Sep 13, 2017, at 13:49, E.T. > wrote:


   Very nice. Maybe not. That is a major change that methinks Apple 
ought to rethink. I did not see much else changed. I updated iTunes 
under High Sierra but will wait on the update under Sierra until I 
develop a strategy. Maybe wait until I get a new phone and have done the 
restore.


 From E.T.'s Keyboard. . .
  "God for you is where you sweep away all the
  mysteries of the world, all the challenges to
  our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off
  and say God did it." --Carl Sagan
E-mail: ancient.ali...@icloud.com 

On 9/13/2017 7:58 AM, Mary Otten wrote:

iTunes 12.7: How to cope with the abrupt changes
Macworld  /  Glenn Fleishman
iTunes 12.7 appeared Tuesday 
 
following Apple’s slate of product announcements 
, 
and its version number hides how much that’s disappeared and changed 
in this release. The iOS App Store is wiped out, as are ringtones. 
iTunes U and Internet Radio have moved locations. And iTunes for 
Windows lost its ability to manage books in iOS.

itunes 12 7 yeah rightIDG
The first time you launch iTunes 12.7, it gives you this hilarious bit 
of fluff about the changes made.
While many people have argued iTunes’ feature creep over the years had 
made it an increasingly odd sack of unrelated items, this shift 
doesn’t come with commensurate improvements or additions elsewhere in 
macOS, and may cause some difficulties for people with modest Internet 
throughput or low bandwidth caps, which can affect people across both 
the developed world (more the U.S. than elsewhere) and the developing one.
The biggest hit is to the iOS App Store in iTunes, which was always a 
strange fit. iOS apps were in iTunes, because iTunes was once the only 
way to manage content. But you’ll have to adjust your behavior and 
find new places to carry out activities you might have before. Let’s 
go through the changes.

   What to do about no iOS apps in iTunes 12.7
The App Store in iTunes is kaput and there’s nothing you can do about, 
so dry your tears and let’s move on. Apple doesn’t let it go neatly 
out the door, however. After updating, I found that 5GB of “.ipa” 
files—the file format for apps—remained in my home directory (in 
|~/Music/iTunes Library/Mobile Applications/|). You can throw those 
away unless you’re nostalgic.
If you were used to syncing your apps via iTunes and making purchases 
in macOS to sync back, that capability is now restricted to iOS. You 
won’t consume more bandwidth downloading an app via iOS than 
macOS—unless you have multiple iOS devices syncing the same apps to a 
single Mac.
Where it will really hurt is if and when you need to restore an iPhone 
or iPad. You can still perform iTunes backups, but the restore won’t 
transfer apps from your Mac, but instead re-download them over the 
Internet from Apple. That can easily consume gigabytes of bandwidth, 
depending on your app choices. Many users download few apps, or those 
apps that are relatively modest, and this won’t be as big a hit.
There’s no way to bypass or minimize this problem. If you have any 
kinds of restrictions on your internet service—whether in performance 
or limits—you should consider using a public Wi-Fi hotspot or the 
Wi-Fi of a friend without those limits. You’ll need to plan ahead when 
you wipe and want to restore an iOS device.
You might wonder what happened to File Transfers, a hack that Apple 
introduced many years ago to allow iOS apps to sync data back and 
forth with a Mac before iCloud Drive, Dropbox, Google Drive, and other 
methods were readily available. It remains: with an iOS device 
connected, click its icon in the area below the playback bar, and then 
click File Sharing in the navigation list at left.

itunes 12 7 file downloadsIDG
File Transfers remains, even though apps are gone.
   Other changes in iTunes 12.7
Ringtones are no longer managed as purchases in iTunes, but you can 
find previously downloaded ones and manage those in iTunes. Apple says 
any downloaded ringtones are in the |~/Mu

How To Manually manage content on your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch using iTunes 12.7

[M. Taylor]

Hello Everyone,  

As there are many, like me, who use both Mac and Windows, I'm posting the
following article to both the V iPhone and Mac Visionaries mailing list.

The point of this support page, from Apple, is that one can continue to
manage custom media content in iTunes 12.7:

Mark

Manually manage content on your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch using iTunes

You can manually add specific content from your computer to your iOS device.

With iTunes, you can manage the content on your iPhone, iPad, or iPod by
manually syncing specific items to your device.

If you have iCloud Music Library turned on, you can't manually manage music,
but you can still manage videos using the steps below.

Manually add items from iTunes
1.Connect your device to your computer.
2.Open iTunes. Make sure that you have the latest version.
3.Choose the content that you want to add to your device from your iTunes
library.
4.Look in the left sidebar for your device, then drag the content to your
iPhone, iPad, or iPod.

If you're using an iPhone, you can add music or videos only from a single
iTunes Library.

If you're using an iPad or iPod, you can add music from multiple iTunes
Libraries, but videos from only one iTunes Library.

If you can't manually add or remove content from your device

Check to make sure that the "Manually manage music and videos" option is
turned on:
1.Connect your device to your computer.
2.Open iTunes. Make sure that you have the latest version.
3.Locate and click on your device.

4.In the left sidebar, click Summary.
5.Scroll to the Options section.
6.Click the box next to "Manually manage music and videos."
7.Click Apply. 

You might see a message that your device is synced with another library.
This means that you've used a different computer to sync your device in the
past, and iTunes can't sync without first erasing and replacing all iTunes
content on your device.

Manually add items from your computer

If you have media on your computer that you can't redownload from the App
Store or iTunes Store directly on your iOS device, such as custom ringtones
or iOS apps, you can drag and drop the media from your computer to your iOS
device using iTunes.
1.Connect your device to your computer.
2.Open iTunes. Make sure that you have the latest version.
3.On your computer, find the item you want to add to your device. If you're
looking for Apps, Tones, or Books (for Windows) that previously appeared in
your iTunes library, you can find them in your iTunes media folder.
4.Drag the item from your computer to your iOS device in the left sidebar of
iTunes.
  
Published Date: Sep 12, 2017

Original Article at:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201593


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The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor.  You can reach mark at:  
macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you 
can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: I’m worried that FaceID is going to suck—and here’s why

[iDevice tutorials and demos]

I am pretty sure Apple has the VO stuff worked out.
But MacRumors has an interesting post about Face ID. I will paste it below 

How Face ID Scans Your Face

Face ID is enabled through a TrueDepth front-facing camera on the iPhone X, 
which has multiple components. A Dot Projector projects more than 30,000 
invisible dots onto your face to map its structure. 


The dot map is then read by an infrared camera and the structure of your face 
is relayed to the A11 Bionic chip in the iPhone X and transformed into a 
mathematical model. The A11 chip then compares your facial structure to the 
facial scan stored in the iPhone X during the setup process. 


As with Touch ID, if there is a match between the two face scans, the iPhone X 
will unlock. From there, you can swipe upwards to get to the Home screen. 
Face ID in the Dark

Face ID uses infrared to scan your face, so it works in low lighting conditions 
and in the dark. The TrueDepth camera also has what Apple calls a "Flood 
Illuminator," aka an infrared light that illuminates your face in the dark so 
the dot map and the infrared camera can do their jobs. 
Fooling Face ID

First of all, Face ID can't be fooled by a photo because it takes a 3D facial 
scan to unlock a device. Face ID is also "attention aware," a feature Apple 
implemented for extra security. 
Face ID will only unlock your device when you look in the direction of the 
iPhone X with your eyes open, meaning Face ID only works when there's a live 
person in front of it. Attention aware is optional, though, and can be turned 
off if you choose. Most people will want to leave attention awareness on, but 
for users unable to focus their attention on the iPhone, turning it off will 
allow the iPhone X to unlock with just a facial scan. 
Face ID is also sensitive enough to tell the difference between you and someone 
who is wearing a mask of your face. Apple trained Face ID with hyperrealistic 
masks created by Hollywood studios, ensuring a mask of a person wouldn't be 
able to fool the Face ID system. 


According to Apple, Face ID is more secure than Touch ID because there are 
slimmer chances of a mismatch. There's a 1 in 50,000 chance someone will be 
able to unlock your iPhone with their fingerprint, but a 1 in 1,000,000 chance 
someone else's face will fool Face ID. That doesn't count for twins, though -- 
if you have an identical twin, that error rate increases. 
Touch ID locks a device after five failed attempts, but with Face ID, Apple is 
only allowing two failed attempts. After two incorrect scans, the iPhone X will 
lock and require your passcode to unlock again. 
Face ID With Hats, Beards, Makeup, and Glasses

Face ID works with hats, beards, glasses, scarves, and other accessories that 
partially obscure the face. According to Apple, this is because the A11 Bionic 
chip in the iPhone X uses machine learning and a neural engine to recognize 
changes in your appearance. 
It's also likely that Face ID, like other facial recognition systems, has a 
match threshold that's below 100 percent, so even with part of the face not 
visible, it recognizes the part that is visible. 


Face ID also adapts to changes in your appearance over time, so it will 
continue to recognize you as you grow a beard or grow your hair longer. 
One caveat -- Apple doesn't mention sunglasses. There's a chance that Face ID 
doesn't work when wearing sunglasses because it obscures your eyes, and eye 
contact is required for unlocking the device. Attention aware can be disabled, 
though, so Face ID may work with sunglasses in that situation. 
Face ID When Unconscious or Sleeping

If someone knocks you unconscious or attempts to unlock your iPhone X with your 
face while you're sleeping, it's not going to work. 
As mentioned above, you need to look at your iPhone for Face ID to grant access 
to your device. 
Face ID Privacy

On iPhones with Touch ID, your fingerprint data is stored in a Secure Enclave 
on the device, and the same is true of Face ID. Your facial map is encrypted 
and kept in the Secure Enclave, with authentication happening entirely on your 
device. No Face ID data is uploaded to iCloud or sent to Apple. 
Multiple Faces in Face ID

When using Touch ID, multiple fingerprints can be added to a device so more 
than one person can unlock it. That is not possible with Face ID. Face ID makes 
a map of a single face and that's the only face that can unlock the iPhone X. 
To add a new face, the existing face must be removed. 
Face ID at an Angle

You don't need to hold the iPhone X right in front of your face for it to make 
a Face ID scan. On stage at the keynote event, it was shown held at a 
comfortable viewing angle and held flat downwards while making an Apple Pay 
payment at payment terminal. 


Face ID and Apple Pay

Face ID replaces Touch ID when authenticating Apple Pay purchases. When 
checking out with Apple Pay, a glance at the iPhone X will authen

Turning Speaking on

[Angus MacKinnon]

When I took my iPhone 5S running IOS 10.32, I heard Speech off. Siri works , 
however nothing elze speaks. How do I turn Speech on? Can I turn speech on 
Wirelessly? Or do I need to plug in the iPhone? Thank you.

Angus MacKinnon

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Re: Turning Speaking on

[Arnold Schmidt]

A three-finger double tap will turn it back on. 

Arnold Schmidt 


Sent from  Arnold's  iPhone

On Sep 14, 2017, at 2:14 AM, Angus MacKinnon  wrote:

When I took my iPhone 5S running IOS 10.32, I heard Speech off. Siri works , 
however nothing elze speaks. How do I turn Speech on? Can I turn speech on 
Wirelessly? Or do I need to plug in the iPhone? Thank you.

Angus MacKinnon

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Apple iPhone 8 Plus vs. iPhone X vs Samsung Note 8: Phablet spec showdown

[M. Taylor]

Macworld - Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 3:30 AM
Apple iPhone 8 Plus vs. iPhone X vs Samsung Note 8: Phablet spec showdown
Samsung's Galaxy Note 8 was the best phone you could buy for about a week.
Now Apple has come along and spoiled Samsung's party with not one but two
new phablet-sized phones: the iPhone 8 Plus and the iPhone X. While the new
iPhones still don't come with a stylus, Apple did upgrade them in just about
every other way. So how does Samsung's flagship stack up to Apple's latest
handsets? Let's take a look.
iPhone 8 Plus vs. iPhone X vs. Note 8: Size
 Apple 
The iPhone X is significantly smaller than the Note 8.
If you're looking for the absolute biggest phone you can buy, Samsung wins
here. It's Note 8 has a whopping 6.3-inch display, a good deal larger than
the iPhone X's 5.8-inch one. But screen size doesn't tell the whole story.
With nearly an inch more screen than the iPhone 8 Plus and way more pixels
than the X, you'd expect the Note 8 to be a significantly bigger package,
but the dimensions are remarkably similar to the Plus:
Note 8: 162.5 x 74.8 x 8.6 mm
iPhone 8 Plus: 158.4 x 78.1 x 7.5 mm
iPhone X: 138.4 x 67.3 x 7.3 mm
iPhone 8 Plus vs. iPhone X vs. Note 8: Display
 Jason Snell 
The iPhone X's Supe Retina display is simply gorgeous, but the Note 8's is
no slouch.
Both the Note 8 and the iPhone X feature remarkable displays, with the
iPhone X representing Apple's first foray into OLED screens. Samsung edges
the iPhone X when it comes to resolution, but we'll need to compare the two
in person to see which comes out on top when it comes to color and
brightness. In pure numbers, however, Samsung takes the crown, both in size
and resolution:
Note 8: 6.3-inch, 2960 x 1440 Super AMOLED, HDR, 532ppi
iPhone 8 Plus: 5.5-inch, 1920 x 1080 LCD, 401ppi
iPhone X: 5.8-inch, 2436 x 1125 OLED, HDR, 458ppi
iPhone 8 Plus vs. iPhone X vs. Note 8: Performance
 Apple 
The A11 chip in the new iPhones is something to behold.
Comparing iPhones to Galaxy phones has never been an apples to apples
comparison, but on paper, Apple's A11 Bionic chip is a screamer. With six
cores and 4.3 billion transistors, it looks to give the Note 8's Snapdragon
835 a real run for its money, at least in terms of raw power. In real-world
use, however, the phones will be pretty close in speed, but the Note 8's 6GB
of RAM could pull it closer in benchmarks. Apple has traditionally been
stingy with its RAM thanks to the intense iOS optimizations, with the iPhone
8 Plus topping out at 2GB. The A11 chip also integrates an Apple-designed
GPU with a three-core design that should give games a boost.
Note 8: Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 (octo-core, 10nm, up to 2.45GHz)
iPhone 8 Plus: A11 Bionic chip (septa-core)
iPhone X: A11 Bionic chip (septa-core)
iPhone 8 Plus vs. iPhone X vs. Note 8: Battery
 Adam Patrick Murray/IDG 
The Note 8's battery is great, but will the iPhone X's be better?
We won't know exactly how big the new iPhones' batteries are until iFixit's
customary tear-down, but based on Apple's claims, the iPhone 8 Plus will
last "about the same" as the 7 Plus, while the X will last "up to two hours
longer," and both phones now support Qi wireless charging like the Note 8.
The Note 8's 3,300mAH battery gets around 9 hours of real-world use, more
than enough to get through a full day of use, and the 7 Plus was equally
long-lasting. If the X truly lasts two hours longer than the 8 Plus, it
could put it over the top.
iPhone 8 Plus vs. iPhone X vs. Note 8: Storage
 Doug Duvall/IDG 
The S Pen isn't the only thing the Note 8 has that the iPhone doesn't-it
also has an SD card slot.
All three phones offer a base model with 64GB of storage. However, the
iPhone 8 Plus and iPhone X add a 256GB tier that isn't available on the Note
8 (at least not in the U.S. anyway). However, the Note 8 includes a microSD
slot so you can upgrade the storage as much as you'd like, and for a lot
less than the $150 Apple is charging for 192 extra gigs of storage.
iPhone 8 Plus vs. iPhone X vs. Note 8: Camera
 Adam Patrick Murray/IDG 
The Note 8 is a great camera, but the iPhone X's might be even better.
Apple and Samsung have been slugging it out over camera performance for
generations of phones, and this year is no different. Let's start with the
specs:
Note 8: Dual 12MP wide-angle and telephoto cameras, f/1.7 and f/2.4, dual
optical image stabilization, 2X optical zoom
iPhone 8 Plus: Dual 12MP wide-angle and telephoto cameras, f/1.8 and f/2.8,
optical image stabilization on main lens, 2X optical zoom
iPhone X: Dual 12MP wide-angle and telephoto cameras, f/1.8 and f/2.4, dual
optical image stabilization, 2X optical zoom
All three phones have very similar cameras, with the Note 8 edging out the
iPhone X slightly when it comes to aperture. Additionally, all three phones
feature a "bokeh" mode-Portrait on the iPhone and Live Focus on the Note
8-but the Note 8 offers the ability to adjust the level of background blur,
which isn't available on the iPhone. However

OLED vs LCD: How the iPhone X's display changes everything

[M. Taylor]

Macworld - Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 2:10 PM
OLED vs LCD: How the iPhone X's display changes everything
The OLED display Apple is using in its new iPhone X brings several benefits
over current LCD technology, but supplies are likely to be limited at first.
Will be benefits of the new screen make it worth the wait? Here's a quick
rundown on OLED (organic light emitting diode) technology and how it differs
from today's LCD (liquid crystal display) screens.
OLED vs LCD. What's the difference?
LCD screens like those used in previous iPhones and the new iPhone 8 and 8
Plus are built on a backlight-a panel as large as the screen itself that
produces a constant white light anytime the screen is on. A series of
polarizers and filters are layered in front of the backlight to control the
light and produce the image you see on screen. It's been the dominant
technology used in flat-panel displays for almost two decades, but keeping
that backlight on draws a lot of power-and that's a big disadvantage in a
portable device.
An OLED does away with the backlight completely. Each individual pixel has a
tiny amount of organic material that fluoresces when current flows, so the
pixels produce light directly. It's also possible to control brightness at a
per-pixel level.
What's the advantage of OLED?
The display is typically the most power-hungry component in any phone
because of the backlight. By removing it, the iPhone will be more power
efficient, which is great for users.
It's not the only reason to applaud OLED. Getting rid of the backlight
allows for the entire display module to be thinner, which is an important
consideration in a smartphone. Apple could use the extra space to make the
phone thinner or add a little more battery capacity.
Just as important is the image. OLEDs display more vibrant colors, have
deeper blacks and brighter whites and a greater contrast ratio so most
people find them superior to LCD.
Is Apple the first to use OLED?
No. OLED screens began appearing in smartphones several years ago and are
used today in phones from Samsung, LG, and other competitors. Several
companies also offer OLED monitors and TV screens and flexible OLEDs are
increasingly used in smartwatches, fitness bands, and automobile dashboards.
Apple is already using an OLED in the Apple Watch.
What's taken Apple so long to launch an OLED iPhone?
In part it's a problem of production. As the iPhone is the world's
best-selling smartphone, Apple needs to be able to ensure a reliable stream
of OLED panels from its display partners, but OLED has proved a difficult
technology to master.
So when you get to the tens of millions of displays that Apple needs, a
small manufacturing glitch can turn into a big problem.
To date, most of the world's smartphone OLEDs are produced by Samsung
Display, which leaves Apple at the mercy of a single supplier for a key
component-typically a position the company has tried to avoid.
While Apple doesn't comment on its supply chain, the availability of OLED
panels is already expected to impact availability of the high-end iPhone
with limited supplies being available at launch and back orders being the
norm. It will also contribute to the expected record-setting price of the
new handset.
To comment on this article and other Macworld content, visit our Facebook
page or our Twitter feed.

Original Article at:
https://www.macworld.com/article/3223143/displays/oled-vs-lcd-how-the-iphone
-xs-display-changes-everything.html#tk.rss_all



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