Wide vs. narrow iPhone

[George Cassell]

Considering the size of the new iPhone versus the 6 series of iPhones, which is 
better to negotiate as far as  navigating and entering the various gestures?

Is the smaller iPhone easier or harder as a result of it’s size?

— George


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Re: Facebook keyboard navigation.

[Caitlyn Furness]

thanks for these tips.

Cait

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:54 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
> 
> I just experienced that in 10.11.4 Facebook navigation with j/k keys to move  
> in your feed only provides feedback when in “GrouP” mode of web browsing. 
> 
> Changing to this also allowed me to have the Gmail web site properly respond 
> to  N and P when in conversation mode. It still is not as efficient as the 
> Mail app, but is better than the  using the web page with a couple of 
> commercial Windows screen readers.
> 
> Instructions:
> Go to VoiceOver Utility with VO F8 
> Switch to the Web area and make sure Group navigation is selected.
> Turn off QuickNav
> Open Safari and go to Facebook.
> Now  just typing the “j” key will move to the next item.
> Pressing “k” will go to the prior item.
> 
> There are also keystrokes for replying posting and likin, that I am sure you 
> can discover on your own
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Also, I expect you need the full facebook site for this, and since they are 
> very JAVASCRIPT dependant probably a good idea to have a bit of ram and a 
> recent OS and machine.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> 
> 
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RE: One not so busy Macintosh.

[Simon Fogarty]

You could just cloan your iMac from your mac book.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Phil Halton
Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2016 2:28 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: One not so busy Macintosh.

I am in the process now of doing a clean L Install on a test comp that I have 
laying around. It's a 2011 21 inch iMac. I have just downloaded the el cap  
Installer and plan to do the clean install tomorrow, and restore apps and docs 
from a time machine backup.
I'll let you know how it goes ET. If this goes OK I'll do it on my working 
machine, a MacBook air running Yosemite. But this gives me an opportunity to 
test it out and shake out the bugs of the process.

One thing I do highly recommend is having and cloned image of your old working 
OS X before doing anything. I've already had to re-image my Mac HD hard drive 
because of one total screwup. It's really saved my a$$

 Sent from my IPhone


> On Mar 23, 2016, at 5:37 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   Was it any one thing or a combination of things? Since I installed El Cap 
> (was not quite a true clean install) I experience some anomalies and may 
> actually do a clean install which I am not looking forward to.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
> true?
> 
>> On 3/23/2016 2:32 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote:
>> I had my speedy new MacBook Air (I actually called it speedy), start going 
>> into slow state whenever I opened a menu item or switched / added a window. 
>> The performance steady degraded the more it was used.
>> 
>> Thanks to some wonderful help from the accessibility desk, not only is my 
>> computer responding again, but now I have a path to resolve the issues 
>> myself.
>> 
>> One thing I did lose unexpectedly was my mail signatures.
>> 
>> Take care,
>> 
>> Jonathan Cohn
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Jonathan
> 
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RE: Anyone install OS X 10.11.4?

[Simon Fogarty]

Yes and no,

I think Apple are doing a lot better than some companys but yeah ok they 
haven’t changed much over the past few years.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2016 5:56 PM
To: Macintosh Blindness List 
Subject: Re: Anyone install OS X 10.11.4?

http://www.applevis.com/forum/accessibility-advocacy/opinion-apple-needs-step-it-when-it-comes-os-x-accessibility
On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 2:24 PM Jonathan Cohn 
mailto:jon.c.c...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Well, if you can actually get to the point where VO says interacting with edit 
text, then vo-L will work.

Tested on the full gmail site, by typing “/line nav” and then doing interact 
with until I heard interact with text edit. Those funky combo boxes like on the 
google home page don’t seem to work no matter what you try.


Best wishes,

Jonathan



> On 23 Mar 2016, at 10:43, Mike Arrigo 
> mailto:n0...@charter.net>> wrote:
>
> I doon't noticce any differences either. The biggest issue I'm still noticing 
> which has been in El Capitan from the beginning is, in Safari, when typing 
> text in to an edit field, pressing vo+l to read the current line does not 
> work.
> Original message:
>> I was hoping that some web-related accessibility bugs would have been 
>> resolved, but they're still present.
>> e.g. contentEditables and treeviews are still broken as ever with VoiceOver.
>
>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 5:31 AM Ray Foret jr 
>> mailto:rforet7...@comcast.net> 
>> >> wrote:
>
>
>> Honestly, not that I can tell. It seems to be more responsive and I suspect 
>> that they’ve knocked out the toxic character string. Let’s hope we don’t 
>> have to take a chance and find out.
>
>
>> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>> built-in
>
>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>> Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>
>
>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 5:05 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>> mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com> 
>> >> wrote:
>
>> Does it sound any different though Audibly?
>> ---
>> Christopher Gilland
>> JAWS Certified, 2016.
>> Training Instructor.
>> clgillan...@gmail.com 
>> >
>> Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401.
>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Ray Foret jr 
>> >
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> >
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 5:58 AM
>> Subject: Re: Anyone install OS X 10.11.4?
>> They have pushed out a new update to Alex in this version. I am guessing 
>> that this is a response to the crashes we all know about from fatal 
>> character strings which we reported to them.
>
>
>> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>> built-in
>
>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>> Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>
>
>> On Mar 21, 2016, at 10:50 PM, Kevin Chao 
>> mailto:kevincha...@gmail.com> 
>> >> wrote:
>
>> http://applevis.com/blog/apple-mac-os-x-news/apple-releases-os-x-el-capitan-10114-bug-fixes-and-enhancements
>>  
>> 
>> Have others noticed any other VoiceOver improvements?
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Stuck in the update.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
My mac Mini mid 2011 is stuck in the update process.
I decided to try it on that first but when it restarted i heard voiceover began 
talking but when i try to use the vo commands to navigate i only hear a kind of 
bong  sound.
I have tried to restart voiceover and the computer but neither works.
I have my macbook to use so its not the biggest deal but if anyone has a 
sollution i would be happy.
Should i just turn it off by holding the power button for 10 seconds and wait 
and then restart again.
The worst case senario is to have to reinstall but thats not a problem either i 
think.
Any thoughts.
Thanks in advance.
/A

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Re: Anyone install OS X 10.11.4?

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

On 24 Mar 2016, at 04:56, Kevin Chao  wrote:
> http://www.applevis.com/forum/accessibility-advocacy/opinion-apple-needs-step-it-when-it-comes-os-x-accessibility

Cool, I replied to this.

Summary: I am ready to jump back to Windows 8.1 if the need arises.  And my 
main iMac is back on Yosemite.  I think Cook & Company have made it pretty 
clear that the Mac isn’t what they want to spend their time on.

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Re: Wide vs. narrow iPhone

[Scott Granados]

I think it depends on the size of your hands.  I’m a big guy so I like the 6s+ 
because it has lots of surface area.  Also it has a bit better optical 
stabilization instead of the digital optical stabilizer and has treated me well 
but the form factor is really a personal decision.  I might head to your local 
phone store and grab ahold of them to get a good idea.

Hope that helps.


> On Mar 24, 2016, at 3:18 AM, George Cassell  wrote:
> 
> Considering the size of the new iPhone versus the 6 series of iPhones, which 
> is better to negotiate as far as  navigating and entering the various 
> gestures?
> 
> Is the smaller iPhone easier or harder as a result of it’s size?
> 
> — George
> 
> 
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Re: blue tooth headsets

[Scott Granados]

Oh boy this makes me miss San Francisco.

I used to like the 21 and over parties at the exploratorium that they had after 
work, I think it was usually Thursdays.

Good times.



> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:24 PM, Kayaker  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I absolutely do not believe this bone conduction thing. I have a pair of the 
> Blues as well, and there is no change in sound quality if I pull the headset 
> apart enough so that nothing touches my face. Try it yourself and tell me if 
> you notice a difference. That said, the speakers blasting and bleeding sound 
> out in front of your ears do allow you to hear both your device and ambient 
> sound. But true bone conduction will have no bleeding. Excellent hands on 
> exhibit at the Exploratorium in SF on this. Actually, it’s more of a teeth on 
> exhibit.
> 
> —k
> Faith doesn’t give you the answers, it merely stops you from asking the 
> questions.
> 
> 
> On Mar 21, 2016, at 9:39 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
>> I absolutely swear by mine, yes.  OK, there may be a little bit of leakage, 
>> but they're bone induction, so give them some credit.  You're never gonna 
>> *totally!* get rid of that.  Compared to the 1st generation though, the 
>> Bluez 2S model is really great, and has improved this quite significantly.
>> 
>> As for the newer model, I think it's called the Treck? Don't quote me on 
>> that title though, it's only available in selected markets from what I 
>> understand, but I hear it is unbelievable.  I've never seen one though, so I 
>> can't really comment.  Knowing though what I do about their products, I'd 
>> strongly recommend trying it.
>> 
>> The only thing really that I would say I have totally against Aftershokz, is 
>> though their customer service is great in general, don't expect them to keep 
>> their promises in a timely manor!
>> 
>> When I broke my tention band strap, they said they'd send me a replacement, 
>> which yes, they did, but oh what a mes!  First, they said they'd send it 
>> over-night, and wouldn't charge me for it, nor shipping, which of course, 
>> they didn't, but over night turned into about a month and a half before I 
>> got the dad blame thing.  And when I did, it was the wrong strap.  I was so 
>> angry for the wait, and for the time it took, I sent them photos of the 
>> wrong strap they sent, and photos of my broken strap, and demanded that they 
>> over-night it again correctly, and not delay things.
>> 
>> They not only told me the unit had been shipped out, but they even went so 
>> far as to tell me it was estimated to arrive in half a week, which I later 
>> determined that they not even shipped it to start with, let alone knew the 
>> delivery date.  Once I got a rep on the phone to spill that confession, I 
>> asked for a supervisor to call me back.  I told them if I didn't hear back 
>> within 24 hours max, I'd be putting a bad review up on my blog, Amazon, 
>> their own web site, etc.
>> 
>> This time, they complied.  Within about half a day, I heard from a manager.  
>> Though very very short and terse with me, you could tell he didn't want to 
>> be in this position, he asked what could be done to make things right.  I 
>> told him, I only have the 1st generation headset.  Send me the 2nd gen on 
>> the house over-nighted.  No charge to me at all for shipping, nor for the 
>> actual headset itself.  He was very hesitant, but he did it.
>> 
>> Granted, I didn't get it over night as he promised.  It took about 3 weeks.
>> 
>> My point being, you'd be better off buying their stuff through Amazon, or a 
>> 3rd party reseller.  The products themselves are steller!  Absolutely 
>> killer!  I'd never ask for anythying else, but that said, their phone 
>> support is absolutely horrible, and frankly, I'd not trust those guys there 
>> at the headquarters call center as far as I could throw 'em.
>> 
>> Still though, don't let that turn you off from the product itself.  And, if 
>> you ever did need a replacement, or something, I never said the people there 
>> wouldn't help you.  They will, but just know, it won't be quick, that's for 
>> sure.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 7:35 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: blue tooth headsets
>> 
>> I always forget about that option.  I’veneer tried them as i’ve heard about 
>> issues with build quality and the like but it may be worth considering.  
>> Sounds like you like yours.
>> 
>>> On Mar 20, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Why not look into the Aftershokz lineup?  I swear by mine!
>>> ---
>>> Christopher Gilland
>>> JAWS Certified, 2016.
>>> Training Instructor.
>>> 
>>> clgillan...@gmail.com
>>> Phone: (704) 256-8010 Extension 401.
>>> - Original Message - From: "Scott Granados"
>>> 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 20

Re: One not so busy Macintosh.

[Phil Halton]

Both the iMac and MBA are running Yosemite. I'm doing a clean install of El cap 
On the iMac as a test case before upgrading my work computer which is the NBA.

Sent from my IPhone


> On Mar 24, 2016, at 5:18 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> You could just cloan your iMac from your mac book.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Phil Halton
> Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2016 2:28 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: One not so busy Macintosh.
> 
> I am in the process now of doing a clean L Install on a test comp that I have 
> laying around. It's a 2011 21 inch iMac. I have just downloaded the el cap  
> Installer and plan to do the clean install tomorrow, and restore apps and 
> docs from a time machine backup.
> I'll let you know how it goes ET. If this goes OK I'll do it on my working 
> machine, a MacBook air running Yosemite. But this gives me an opportunity to 
> test it out and shake out the bugs of the process.
> 
> One thing I do highly recommend is having and cloned image of your old 
> working OS X before doing anything. I've already had to re-image my Mac HD 
> hard drive because of one total screwup. It's really saved my a$$
> 
> Sent from my IPhone
> 
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 5:37 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>>  Was it any one thing or a combination of things? Since I installed El Cap 
>> (was not quite a true clean install) I experience some anomalies and may 
>> actually do a clean install which I am not looking forward to.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited in the past. What if it were 
>> true?
>> 
>>> On 3/23/2016 2:32 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote:
>>> I had my speedy new MacBook Air (I actually called it speedy), start going 
>>> into slow state whenever I opened a menu item or switched / added a window. 
>>> The performance steady degraded the more it was used.
>>> 
>>> Thanks to some wonderful help from the accessibility desk, not only is my 
>>> computer responding again, but now I have a path to resolve the issues 
>>> myself.
>>> 
>>> One thing I did lose unexpectedly was my mail signatures.
>>> 
>>> Take care,
>>> 
>>> Jonathan Cohn
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Jonathan
>> 
>> --
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Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event

[Scott Granados]

Makes me want to short Apple but I know to many who have lost on that bet 
before.  It is sad but I hope this is something that will change or maybe it’s 
just me.  This 4 inch phone sounds like it’s going to be a bigger deal and 
maybe that’s ok.  I just miss the old Apple.  Here’s hoping we’re just in a 
lull.

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:47 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> I was downgrading my main Mac to Yosemite at the time of the event, and had 
> to catch up using the Apple Keynotes podcast.  There were exactly two things 
> I got out of the address:
> 
> 1.  The Mac is dead.  The iPad Pro is clearly set to kill it, and Apple wants 
> to be in the driver’s seat when that happens.  And:
> 
> 2.  Downgrade to Yosemite.  It’s a better use of your time than watching 
> these things.  For the probable reason see point 1 above.  OS X gets buggier 
> and buggier and you only notice by downgrading.  Sad.
> 
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Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event

[Scott Granados]

No, total disappointment, no new watch and no new watch OS.  But hey there’s a 
new nylon watch band, that’s worth having a press conference right?


> On Mar 23, 2016, at 5:31 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> I haven’t heard the event yet.  Is there a new watch coming out yet?
>> On 23 Mar 2016, at 18:47, Sabahattin Gucukoglu > > wrote:
>> 
>> I was downgrading my main Mac to Yosemite at the time of the event, and had 
>> to catch up using the Apple Keynotes podcast.  There were exactly two things 
>> I got out of the address:
>> 
>> 1.  The Mac is dead.  The iPad Pro is clearly set to kill it, and Apple 
>> wants to be in the driver’s seat when that happens.  And:
>> 
>> 2.  Downgrade to Yosemite.  It’s a better use of your time than watching 
>> these things.  For the probable reason see point 1 above.  OS X gets buggier 
>> and buggier and you only notice by downgrading.  Sad.
>> 
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Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event

[Scott Granados]

I’m surprised about your feelings about the watch but then again that’s exactly 
what I thought before I used / owned one.  I’m not sure what I would do with it 
if it ran separate from the phone.  The fact it joins my WiFi and has such good 
bluetooth range means I can leave my phone any where in my multistory home and 
have access to it’s screen pops and all my data from my wrist.  It’s great for 
checking that quick text or latest news headline, quick phone call and yes the 
Dick Tracy reference isn’t lost on me either definitely cool.  But what would I 
gain by having a separate data line on my watch?  Not that much when my phone 
is always in range.  This is a feeling I have gotten though only after owning 
the device.  Before I couldn’t understand why it needed the phone and was 
designed that way either.

You for example don’t need the phone to place calls though if your carrier 
supports WiFi calling.  My phone can be completely powered down and I can place 
and take calls.

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:27 PM, Emilio  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> My thoughts on the Apple keynote are positive. I like how the CEO did not 
> spend very much time discussing the company's position concerning the recent 
> debate over iOS security and the Government of the USA. I like how his point 
> was clear and succinct. The only thing I was interested in was the iPad Pro 
> 9.7 in. Announcement. Nothing too earth shattering here, but glad to get 
> final confirmation about the product. The tech pundits were correct as is the 
> case for the majority.
> I did also like to see the prices finally enter the competitive market with 
> the rest of the world, but this was going to happen anyway. I still cannot 
> justify an Apple Watch because of the dependence to the iPhone, which I hope 
> will change and become an independent accessory because in that case an 
> AppleWatch would be well-worth the expense. However, it would still be cool 
> to talk into my wrist like Dick Tracy.
> 
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Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event

[Scott Granados]

Simon, why don’t you run a Unix variant on your servers and just be done with 
it.  Much greater stability, great remote access and to say it’s tested and 
true for decades is an understatement.

OSX server is just Unix with a pretty wrapper.

> On Mar 24, 2016, at 2:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Interesting,
> 
> I'm only really getting started with macs but the hardware is excelant and 
> the OS brilliant, but I can't go past the windows OS and jaws for power use 
> with my servers, however most of that would be due to lack of time with OSX 
> server.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2016 1:32 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event
> 
> Well look it’s not entirely Microsoft’s fault.  I’ll be the first to bash the 
> folks in Redmond but in this case the NFB had a lot to do with it as well.  
> There were payoffs made by certain screen reader manufacturers to the NFB to 
> have the NFB protest the creation of built in accessibility.  After all, Ted 
> Henter doesn’t make any money if Apple and Microsoft give away screen readers 
> for free.  You will also note there were several hit pieces against Apple 
> written by the same organization.  It’s just Apple ignored them.
> 
> So Microsoft of course by now should do more but there’s history there.
> 
> Apple also always had a soft spot in a lot of us older blind folks heart 
> because it was likely one of the first somewhat accessible computers we used. 
>  The Apple 2 series had all sorts of add on voice synthesis cards that 
> started to open the door for us.  It’s how I started.
> 
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 4:07 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Scott,
>> 
>> Would you  say apple don't listen even though we can contact them when there 
>> is an accessibility issue with a IOS or OSC system and they work quickly to 
>> correct the issues.
>> Full stop they have listened enough to give us accessible platforms out of 
>> the box.
>> What do Microsoft do for us?
>> 
>> They always leave it up to the third parties.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Wednesday, 23 March 2016 7:37 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event
>> 
>> It’s really not in apple’s culture to listen to consumers.  Remember their 
>> attitude is they come up with great products we can’t live with out.:)  
>> Remember the antenna issue.  It wasn’t a flaw in the design it was the user 
>> holding the phone the wrong way according to apple.
>> 
>> You hav ea good point that companies should listen to customers and 
>> generally do well if they do but I never have thought of apple as being big 
>> listeners.  I could be wrong maybe others feel differently.  Apple though 
>> was always to me that closed black box that just works and solves a problem 
>> I didn’t know i had.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 2:34 PM, Vaughn Brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> In all of this I wonder if consumers are not voices what they would
>>> like Apple to develop directly to Apple. How can a product be
>>> developed without a demand?
>>> Vaughn
>>> 
>>> On 3/22/16, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries
>>>  wrote:
 Another perspective is that most people don't know a great thing
 until there are a few years of hindsight. I remember one of my
 co-workers got one of the very first iPhones and I couldn't figure
 out why. It was a battery hog, heavy and my little folding phone made 
 calls just as well.
 Who knew then what the trajectory would be? There is also 1.0
 iteration issues. The original Lisa was expensive, slow and buggy
 but they kept iterating on the basic strong bit of a more human-centered 
 interface.
 That eventually became the Mac and it's been pretty good since.
 Lessons learned from the Newton as well. So is today's Apple Watch
 just a Newton or Lisa - a good core idea that is usable today but
 needs more development? Maybe AppleTV is just iPhone 1.0 and we
 haven't realized where it's going to go.
 
 There is one snag in the IoT when those are durable goods. Most
 devices are running about a 3-year life cycle but my fridge, TV and
 thermostat are expected to go much longer than that. So what happens
 to my iOS enabled fridge when iOS 15 comes out? TVs are really
 hitting commodity prices where margins are super thin so I doubt
 Apple would want to get into that space. It does make sense to have
 a removable brain (AppleTV) which I can just plug into the TV or upgrade 
 when brain 2.0 comes out.
 That also means when the TV dies I can swap it without tossing the
 the brain with it. That was the idea behind having separate

Re: the 4-finger swipe

[Scott Granados]

This is a good one, and here I was only familiar with the one finger solute.;)

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 3:07 PM, Sandra E. Finley  wrote:
> 
> I like this gesture. It enables you to move from app to app without wearing 
> out your home button.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 12:01 PM, Traci Duncan  wrote:
>> 
>> I love this gesture!  :)  I thought I’d point out, that yes, we swipe left 
>> or right, but your 4 fingers can be vertical or horizontal.  I just opened 3 
>> apps & tried this.  For me, having my 4 fingers vertical is a lot easier & 
>> more comfortable on the slender 6s screen.
>> 
>> HTH, Traci
>> 
>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Works on the iPhone 5 too.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> Many believe that we have been visited
>>> in the past. What if it were true?
>>> 
 On 3/23/2016 2:25 AM, Ray Foret jr wrote:
 YOu sure the four finger swipe works on the iPhone 6 or 6+?  I guess it 
 must only work on the 6S and 6S+ because it sure doesn’t work for me on my 
 6+.
 
 
 Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
 built-in
 
 Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
 Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
 
> On Mar 23, 2016, at 1:10 AM, Ben J Bloomgren  
> wrote:
> 
> Mary and all,
> 
> AppleVis has put up some tutorials as to the new features both in TVOS 
> 9.2 and iOS 9.3.
> 
> Ben
>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 12:28 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> I just tried before finger gesture for the first time when in mail. It 
>> flipped to Safari. First shot. There was a bit of a delay, but it work.
>> Mary
>> PS, running an iPhone 6s.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 12:20 PM, Jenine Stanley  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It allows you, from an open app, to move back and forth through your 
>>> other open apps as you would with the app switcher. Again, it’s not 
>>> something for which there is no other gesture or way to access but 
>>> something that’s pretty nifty and more like a multi-tasking feel if you 
>>> will.
>>> 
>>> I was all over the 3D touch gesture when we got it to access the app 
>>> switcher and yes, it is or at least seems to be so far, much more 
>>> stable in 9.3.
>>> Jenine Stanley
>>> dragonwalke...@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Mar 22, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Christina C.  
 wrote:
 
 what is it supposed to accomplish?
 
 
> On Mar 22, 2016, at 1:10 PM, Jenine Stanley 
>  wrote:
> 
> Is anyone else having trouble getting the 4-finger left and right 
> swipe gesture to work? I love the concept of what it’s supposed to do 
> but I can’t get it to work.
> 
> I have a 6S and small hands but somehow the swipe just doesn’t work.
> 
> It took me a while to get the 3-finger swipe to work though so maybe 
> I just need to go into the VO practice area for a while with it.
> Jenine Stanley
> dragonwalke...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
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anyone know if Type2Phone still works?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

I just tried to use Type2Phone for the first time.  It says it's connected to 
my phone, but I don't seem to have any access to my phone.  Does anyone know if 
this app still works?
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Yeah.  I’ve been a pretty consistent Apple advocate since about 2007 with the 
Mac.  Back then there was a lot to write home about.  Now I’m just not sure.  
The change is palpable.  I wasn’t totally behind Steve the autocratic 
ringmaster but at least he had the good sense to put the consumers first, 
because that’s what made Apple different and made them so much loved.  Tim 
seems like an alright bloke but his ambitions for Apple seem way to operational 
and profit-centric, so that anything that isn’t the latest hot thing to get the 
high-pressure investors in a fit of capitalist ecstasy is an expense to be 
spared.  The phone is leading the pack, of course, but this ship isn’t going 
anywhere without some inspiration about how things should be done.  I also fear 
for the Mac and believe that it still has a future if Apple would only 
acknowledge the form factor, even though I just know it’s on borrowed time now. 
 I’d love to have been in the board room when they concluded that they had to 
keep the Mac around because otherwise there’d be nothing for the iPhone fans to 
buy for their next college computers, or for developers to develop iPhone apps 
on, even though it put an unwelcome dent in the returns.  Tim is quite the iPad 
fan too, and can’t imagine why anyone would want a PC (or Mac, by oblique 
extension).  It’s this gradual transformation from a wonderful company that 
makes products we never realised we wanted to just another materialist 
technology giant that makes me sad.

I guess I’d like to see the watch become more independent because you could 
then do the basics as long as you had previously visited the remote Wi-Fi 
network with your iPhone.  But then I’ve heard both sides of this, and do 
accept that the watch as extension can work, provided you come to it with that 
expectation.

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Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event

[Scott Granados]

So let me ask you since I have no idea the answer to this.  If the Mac goes 
away and I agree with you that’s pretty likely.  What kind of laptop / desktop 
should I be using?  Am I to go to Linux?  What about on the hardware side?  
What do you think your moves will be. I value your opinion so would be very 
curious your thoughts.



> On Mar 24, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Yeah.  I’ve been a pretty consistent Apple advocate since about 2007 with the 
> Mac.  Back then there was a lot to write home about.  Now I’m just not sure.  
> The change is palpable.  I wasn’t totally behind Steve the autocratic 
> ringmaster but at least he had the good sense to put the consumers first, 
> because that’s what made Apple different and made them so much loved.  Tim 
> seems like an alright bloke but his ambitions for Apple seem way to 
> operational and profit-centric, so that anything that isn’t the latest hot 
> thing to get the high-pressure investors in a fit of capitalist ecstasy is an 
> expense to be spared.  The phone is leading the pack, of course, but this 
> ship isn’t going anywhere without some inspiration about how things should be 
> done.  I also fear for the Mac and believe that it still has a future if 
> Apple would only acknowledge the form factor, even though I just know it’s on 
> borrowed time now.  I’d love to have been in the board room when they 
> concluded that they had to keep the Mac around because otherwise there’d be 
> nothing for the iPhone fans to buy for their next college computers, or for 
> developers to develop iPhone apps on, even though it put an unwelcome dent in 
> the returns.  Tim is quite the iPad fan too, and can’t imagine why anyone 
> would want a PC (or Mac, by oblique extension).  It’s this gradual 
> transformation from a wonderful company that makes products we never realised 
> we wanted to just another materialist technology giant that makes me sad.
> 
> I guess I’d like to see the watch become more independent because you could 
> then do the basics as long as you had previously visited the remote Wi-Fi 
> network with your iPhone.  But then I’ve heard both sides of this, and do 
> accept that the watch as extension can work, provided you come to it with 
> that expectation.
> 
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How to add an item to the dock?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?  I'm trying to add an item to the 
dock.  I press CMD comma to mark it, then CMD . to move it.  I just keep 
getting the dragging noise.  The Mac seems to want a third keystroke, but I 
have no idea what that would be.  Have tried space, Enter, and VO-Space, but 
they all just abort the drag and Drop.  Alternatively, if there's a keyboard 
command that would do this, I'd love to know.  I've searched the menus for such 
a command, but have not found it.  
TIA,
Donna

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Re: How to add an item to the dock?

[E.T.]

   With app running, find it on the dock, do VO shift m, find Options 
and select Keep in Dock.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 3/24/2016 6:42 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:

Hi all,

Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?  I'm trying to add an item to the 
dock.  I press CMD comma to mark it, then CMD . to move it.  I just keep 
getting the dragging noise.  The Mac seems to want a third keystroke, but I 
have no idea what that would be.  Have tried space, Enter, and VO-Space, but 
they all just abort the drag and Drop.  Alternatively, if there's a keyboard 
command that would do this, I'd love to know.  I've searched the menus for such 
a command, but have not found it.
TIA,
Donna



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Re: How to add an item to the dock?

[Donna Goodin]

Excellent!  Much easier than dragging and dropping.  thanks!
Donna
> On Mar 24, 2016, at 8:45 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   With app running, find it on the dock, do VO shift m, find Options and 
> select Keep in Dock.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 3/24/2016 6:42 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?  I'm trying to add an item to the 
>> dock.  I press CMD comma to mark it, then CMD . to move it.  I just keep 
>> getting the dragging noise.  The Mac seems to want a third keystroke, but I 
>> have no idea what that would be.  Have tried space, Enter, and VO-Space, but 
>> they all just abort the drag and Drop.  Alternatively, if there's a keyboard 
>> command that would do this, I'd love to know.  I've searched the menus for 
>> such a command, but have not found it.
>> TIA,
>> Donna
>> 
> 
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Re: How to add an item to the dock?

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Hi Donna. Alternatively, if the app isn't running in the background, find it in 
the Applications folder and then press Control+Command+Shift+T. HTH.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Mar 24, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?  I'm trying to add an item to the 
> dock.  I press CMD comma to mark it, then CMD . to move it.  I just keep 
> getting the dragging noise.  The Mac seems to want a third keystroke, but I 
> have no idea what that would be.  Have tried space, Enter, and VO-Space, but 
> they all just abort the drag and Drop.  Alternatively, if there's a keyboard 
> command that would do this, I'd love to know.  I've searched the menus for 
> such a command, but have not found it.  
> TIA,
> Donna
> 
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Re: the 4-finger swipe

[Jenine Stanley]

I finally got it to work most of the time and it’s a magical gesture. I love 
going from one open app to another. I’m doing it vertically which is much 
easier and more reliable so thanks to whoever suggested that.
Jenine Stanley
dragonwalke...@gmail.com



> On Mar 24, 2016, at 8:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> This is a good one, and here I was only familiar with the one finger solute.;)
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 3:07 PM, Sandra E. Finley  wrote:
>> 
>> I like this gesture. It enables you to move from app to app without wearing 
>> out your home button.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 12:01 PM, Traci Duncan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I love this gesture!  :)  I thought I’d point out, that yes, we swipe left 
>>> or right, but your 4 fingers can be vertical or horizontal.  I just opened 
>>> 3 apps & tried this.  For me, having my 4 fingers vertical is a lot easier 
>>> & more comfortable on the slender 6s screen.
>>> 
>>> HTH, Traci
>>> 
 On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Works on the iPhone 5 too.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
> On 3/23/2016 2:25 AM, Ray Foret jr wrote:
> YOu sure the four finger swipe works on the iPhone 6 or 6+?  I guess it 
> must only work on the 6S and 6S+ because it sure doesn’t work for me on 
> my 6+.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 1:10 AM, Ben J Bloomgren  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Mary and all,
>> 
>> AppleVis has put up some tutorials as to the new features both in TVOS 
>> 9.2 and iOS 9.3.
>> 
>> Ben
>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 12:28 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I just tried before finger gesture for the first time when in mail. It 
>>> flipped to Safari. First shot. There was a bit of a delay, but it work.
>>> Mary
>>> PS, running an iPhone 6s.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Mar 22, 2016, at 12:20 PM, Jenine Stanley 
  wrote:
 
 It allows you, from an open app, to move back and forth through your 
 other open apps as you would with the app switcher. Again, it’s not 
 something for which there is no other gesture or way to access but 
 something that’s pretty nifty and more like a multi-tasking feel if 
 you will.
 
 I was all over the 3D touch gesture when we got it to access the app 
 switcher and yes, it is or at least seems to be so far, much more 
 stable in 9.3.
 Jenine Stanley
 dragonwalke...@gmail.com
 
 
 
> On Mar 22, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Christina C.  
> wrote:
> 
> what is it supposed to accomplish?
> 
> 
>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 1:10 PM, Jenine Stanley 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Is anyone else having trouble getting the 4-finger left and right 
>> swipe gesture to work? I love the concept of what it’s supposed to 
>> do but I can’t get it to work.
>> 
>> I have a 6S and small hands but somehow the swipe just doesn’t work.
>> 
>> It took me a while to get the 3-finger swipe to work though so maybe 
>> I just need to go into the VO practice area for a while with it.
>> Jenine Stanley
>> dragonwalke...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: blue tooth headsets

[Ronald van Rhijn]

I have to correct myself on the noise cancelling bit. The Marque 2 does have 
some noise cancelling or noise reduction, but not as good as the Edge has as I 
read online.

Ronald
 
> Op 23 mrt. 2016, om 17:13 heeft Scott Granados  het 
> volgende geschreven:
> 
> So jawbone is actually a pretty good name because it pings your jawbone to 
> detect activity.  Most people are not aware of bone conduction.  Out side of 
> our community the military is probably the only user.
> 
> In later versions of the jawbone like the Era the censor is not absolutely 
> required.  It does work better using the censor but you don’t necessarily 
> have to use it.
> 
> As far it’s appearance, very small. Shaped like the old jawbone but if you 
> haven’t seen one it’s a small stylized shape with a piece that fits in your 
> ear and then a piece that sits on your cheek bone or jawbone. The whole deal 
> is about an inch long if that an half inch wide.  Weight is only a few grams.
> 
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 12:10 PM, Ronald van Rhijn  wrote:
>> 
>> Scott,
>> 
>> Thanks for the clearification! The name Jawbone is a little bit misleading.
>> I still dont want to be bothered to keep the sensor on my jaw or cheek.
>> How does it look like,  how long is such divice as the Era?
>> 
>> Ronald
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Op 23 mrt. 2016, om 13:35 heeft Scott Granados  het 
>>> volgende geschreven:
>>> 
>>> To be clear, the jawbone does not * use * bone induction.  Not even close.  
>>> There is a small censor that rests on your cheek / jawbone that is a noise 
>>> gate.  When you speak one of the first things that happens before sound 
>>> leaves your mouth is your jaw starts to move.  That movement triggers the 
>>> censor which opens the noise gate and allows your voice in.  If you’re not 
>>> speaking the noise gate is closed and sound isn’t picked up.  They use this 
>>> a lot in military headsets for example helicopters and tanks.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
 On Mar 22, 2016, at 4:55 PM, 'Maxwell Ivey' via MacVisionaries 
  wrote:
 
 ronald does that also have a microphone or is seri picking up your voice 
 through its microphone. i'd really rather go with traditional ear phone 
 type instead of bone induction myself. thanks max
 On Mar 22, 2016, at 2:23 PM, Ronald van Rhijn wrote:
 
> Just bought me a Plantronics Marque 2 (m165) single earpiece headset 
> after looking at all the options.
> I considered the Jawbone Era and Plantronics Edge as well, but the 
> Jawbone models need to touch your jaw in order to function properly. 
> Don’t know if this is part or full bone conduction , but didn’t want to 
> have something to be on my face. The Plantronics Edge is larger than the 
> Marque 2 and more expensive. The additional features of the Edge like 
> noise cancelling and charge unit I don’t need. So I bought the Marque 2 
> and very satisfied with it where I use it for, some reading in public 
> transit. The unit has some physical buttons for volume, on/off switch end 
> multipurpose button for Siri, answering etc. The unit speaks when turning 
> on how much talktime there is left, the pairing process, volume etc.  The 
> Marque 2 costst about 50 euro.
> Ronald
> 
> 
>> Op 20 mrt. 2016, om 01:50 heeft Simon Fogarty  het 
>> volgende geschreven:
>> 
>> Scott,
>> 
>> I've not tried the Plantronics legend but know it was a great device 
>> back in  the day,
>> 
>> Would you still put it above the Edge?
>> 
>> 
>> And I used one of the early era devices but at that point it's 
>> accessibility wasn't great. Still it was an excellent device,
>> I just need to stop being so hard on headsets.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2016 4:53 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: blue tooth headsets
>> 
>> Max, your brother is misinformed.  Bluetooth is a series of 
>> specifications that are standardized so aside some special features in 
>> general most things work pretty well with each other.  There are 
>> headsets in general though that work better than others.  This is one of 
>> the favorite topics of mine and also the moderator’s Mark I believe.
>> 
>> In my mind there are two ways to go and there have been the 2 same 
>> players on top for a while now.  There is the plantronics legend and the 
>> era by jawbone.  The Jawbone is the most stylish / smallest headset and 
>> the plantronics is the largest most utilitarian of the two.  Depends on 
>> what your goal is.  If you want to look cool, have good noise reduction, 
>> medium battery life and have the same toys as the cool kids buy a 
>> Jawbone.  If you want your headset to work in all conditions, want 
>> fa

Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event

['Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries]

Regular OSX also has all the same server capabilities but you need to 
know your way around the command line to turn on Apache or MySQL. OSX 
server gives you a nice interface to all the good stuff under the hood. 
Probably worth the $20 but I'm already familiar enough with terminal 
that I haven't bothered with the upgrade (yet).


CB

On 3/24/16 8:45 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

Simon, why don’t you run a Unix variant on your servers and just be done with 
it.  Much greater stability, great remote access and to say it’s tested and 
true for decades is an understatement.

OSX server is just Unix with a pretty wrapper.


On Mar 24, 2016, at 2:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

Interesting,

I'm only really getting started with macs but the hardware is excelant and the 
OS brilliant, but I can't go past the windows OS and jaws for power use with my 
servers, however most of that would be due to lack of time with OSX server.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2016 1:32 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event

Well look it’s not entirely Microsoft’s fault.  I’ll be the first to bash the 
folks in Redmond but in this case the NFB had a lot to do with it as well.  
There were payoffs made by certain screen reader manufacturers to the NFB to 
have the NFB protest the creation of built in accessibility.  After all, Ted 
Henter doesn’t make any money if Apple and Microsoft give away screen readers 
for free.  You will also note there were several hit pieces against Apple 
written by the same organization.  It’s just Apple ignored them.

So Microsoft of course by now should do more but there’s history there.

Apple also always had a soft spot in a lot of us older blind folks heart 
because it was likely one of the first somewhat accessible computers we used.  
The Apple 2 series had all sorts of add on voice synthesis cards that started 
to open the door for us.  It’s how I started.



On Mar 23, 2016, at 4:07 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:

Scott,

Would you  say apple don't listen even though we can contact them when there is 
an accessibility issue with a IOS or OSC system and they work quickly to 
correct the issues.
Full stop they have listened enough to give us accessible platforms out of the 
box.
What do Microsoft do for us?

They always leave it up to the third parties.

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Wednesday, 23 March 2016 7:37 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event

It’s really not in apple’s culture to listen to consumers.  Remember their 
attitude is they come up with great products we can’t live with out.:)  
Remember the antenna issue.  It wasn’t a flaw in the design it was the user 
holding the phone the wrong way according to apple.

You hav ea good point that companies should listen to customers and generally 
do well if they do but I never have thought of apple as being big listeners.  I 
could be wrong maybe others feel differently.  Apple though was always to me 
that closed black box that just works and solves a problem I didn’t know i had.



On Mar 22, 2016, at 2:34 PM, Vaughn Brown  wrote:

In all of this I wonder if consumers are not voices what they would
like Apple to develop directly to Apple. How can a product be
developed without a demand?
Vaughn

On 3/22/16, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries
 wrote:

Another perspective is that most people don't know a great thing
until there are a few years of hindsight. I remember one of my
co-workers got one of the very first iPhones and I couldn't figure
out why. It was a battery hog, heavy and my little folding phone made calls 
just as well.
Who knew then what the trajectory would be? There is also 1.0
iteration issues. The original Lisa was expensive, slow and buggy
but they kept iterating on the basic strong bit of a more human-centered 
interface.
That eventually became the Mac and it's been pretty good since.
Lessons learned from the Newton as well. So is today's Apple Watch
just a Newton or Lisa - a good core idea that is usable today but
needs more development? Maybe AppleTV is just iPhone 1.0 and we
haven't realized where it's going to go.

There is one snag in the IoT when those are durable goods. Most
devices are running about a 3-year life cycle but my fridge, TV and
thermostat are expected to go much longer than that. So what happens
to my iOS enabled fridge when iOS 15 comes out? TVs are really
hitting commodity prices where margins are super thin so I doubt
Apple would want to get into that space. It does make sense to have
a removable brain (AppleTV) which I can just plug into the TV or upgrade when 
brain 2.0 comes out.
That also means when the TV dies I can swap it without tossing 

Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Good question.  Software-wise, short-term I’m thinking Windows with Linux as a 
VM guest.  This gets you an accessible app ecosystem but you don’t have to lose 
access to a productive working environment like the Unix CLI.  I’d pick Windows 
8.1 plus Classic Shell because I know it works, and will do until 2023.  Win10 
is off the cards because privacy, and I don’t much like it anyway.  And Apple 
hardware that’s Haswell or lower will work just fine, if you can get your hands 
on it, with the added advantage of getting you OS X for when you’re in the mood 
or want to run some particularly helpful Mac app that won’t run in a VM 
elsewhere.

But long term, I really would love to run Linux full-time.  High-quality 
commodity hardware works well for desktops rather than laptops on Windows or 
Linux, but you’ve always got the problem of hardware configuration needing 
external sighted help.  And of course this only works if Linux accessibility 
actually improves to the point you can do this.  Still, absent any alternatives 
for building and/or using servers, it seems the likely outcome.

Other options provide interesting side opportunities: I quite like ChromeOS and 
have reasonably high hopes for it, and I really don’t mind Apple’s vision of 
the future as long as I can delegate anything I need to a server.  I could take 
an iPad Pro if it had SD card slot, Ethernet, the ability to fully utilise the 
keyboard and external network or disk file systems like other cloud document 
providers, and allowed us to run a Unix environment and/or development tools in 
sandboxes.  There might be a baseline to what we could actually do with our own 
hardware, and there would always be a compelling argument for eliminating 
Apple’s control over it, but if it’s all we actually need to do, I could 
probably embrace it well enough.

If I could work at Apple, I’d beat some sense into the bastards (with a large, 
heavy mallet made from the purest gold) on the merits of the Mac as a platform, 
as long as I could somehow transition the iOS app ecosystem into sharing code 
bases with it.  The problem with Mac now is simply that it’s coasting, and 
can’t benefit from changes in iOS.  This is, somewhat ironically, unlike the 
situation on Windows, where the chunky universal apps platform does at least 
encourage developers to build for both modalities.  And in the (probably quite 
likely) event that I couldn’t affect this change, then I’d insist that they 
build an appliance that would provide the back end to any number of 
computational and server tasks, for which the front end would be an app in the 
store that people could deploy easily, thus turning even the relatively 
inhospitable realm of servers and computation into potential markets.

JMO, of course. :)

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Re: How to add an item to the dock?

[Donna Goodin]

Thank you, Shawn!!!  I knew there was a command to do this, but I couldn't find 
it on my Mac using Spotlight, nor could I turn it up using Google.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Mar 24, 2016, at 9:03 AM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna. Alternatively, if the app isn't running in the background, find it 
> in the Applications folder and then press Control+Command+Shift+T. HTH.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Mar 24, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?  I'm trying to add an item to the 
>> dock.  I press CMD comma to mark it, then CMD . to move it.  I just keep 
>> getting the dragging noise.  The Mac seems to want a third keystroke, but I 
>> have no idea what that would be.  Have tried space, Enter, and VO-Space, but 
>> they all just abort the drag and Drop.  Alternatively, if there's a keyboard 
>> command that would do this, I'd love to know.  I've searched the menus for 
>> such a command, but have not found it.  
>> TIA,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Wide vs. narrow iPhone

[Sandra E. Finley]

George,  if you are able too get to an Apple store, go and try them all and see 
what works for you. I bought a 6S plus because I like the Braille input apps . 
With the larger phone I feel my hands are in a more natural position to enter 
Braille. I know this is not what you asked about, but I also like the longer 
battery life and I think music has a better sound.

Having said that, there is no substitute for trying them all out yourself.  

Sandy
 

24, 2016, at 3:18 AM, George Cassell  wrote:
> 
> 
> Considering the size of the new iPhone versus the 6 series of iPhones, which 
> is better to negotiate as far as  navigating and entering the various 
> gestures?
> 
> Is the smaller iPhone easier or harder as a result of it’s size?
> 
> — George
> 
> 
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Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Yeah, OS X Server is lots of fun from the command line, although I’d take Linux 
for that since you still can’t update it without control over the GUI.  The 
server package does include more than the front-facing app from the Mac App 
Store, though; some of the pieces of the server like the database, 
collaboration, profile manager, caching, etc are inside the app bundle and are 
started from within it.  Hence, when an OS update comes out, the server becomes 
inaccessible until you manually update and relaunch the Server app.  The 
daemons that start up will check to see if they are compatible with the version 
of the OS they’re running on, and unfortunately that includes the server 
manager itself.  But it’s still worth it for me, for the Caching service, which 
is why I recommend it.

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Re: Anyone install OS X 10.11.4?

[matthew dyer]

Hi,

Yes I am running it here and see nothing different here.  I am guessing 
that the changes are under the hood.  You do have the ability to 
password protect notes if you want f that counts for anything.


Matthew



On 03/23/2016 05:20 PM, syc20...@gmail.com wrote:
I have installed it on my Mac, personally I do not see any difference, 
but maybe perhaps they solved under the hood. I heard live photos will 
be available, but I am not sure.


Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 23, 2016, at 4:17 PM, Denise Barajas > wrote:


I've installed it, but I don't see mch of a difference. the only 
thing that is currently odd is that VO sometimes goes from speaking 
through my internal speakers from the USB. It's every so offten, so 
I'll try and flip VO off and on again to see if that fixes the issue. 
blessings to all.
On Mar 23, 2016, at 5:56 AM, Devin Prater > wrote:


I've not noticed any difference in Alex for the Mac.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:09 AM, Simon Fogarty > wrote:


Hi Ray,

I fully agree,

I've only been using macs for a few years because I needed to learn 
them for work.


Now I'm one of the 5 people my office come to when they have mac 
issues and I do most of the machine reinsatllations for my team and 
that's from start to  finish with a reconfiguration
And as I'm the only with sight issues, people can't figure out how 
we do it without being able to see.



I so wish ms would setup an installation system like apple 
have.-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr

Sent: Wednesday, 23 March 2016 1:30 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 


Subject: Re: Anyone install OS X 10.11.4?

Let me make one thing perfectly clear.  I have done a clean install 
with the latest update and no problems what so ever.  Do not be 
fooled in to thinking that you, as a blind Mac user, cannot cleanly 
install the OS without sighted assistance.  This is one of the 
major selling points that drew me away from windows and to the Mac 
back in  2009.



Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the 
blind built-in


Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, 
Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!


On Mar 22, 2016, at 5:20 AM, William Gallik > wrote:


As a totally blind user, I'm asking if it would still be prudent 
to do a clean install with the latest version of OSX rather than 
an update?


I am still on Yosemite with my Mac Mini, a friend who is also 
totally blind had her cited husband execute an update and she is 
having no problems. However, I have to wonder if the fact that he 
could see what he was doing made it feasible for him to react to 
any information or questions on the screen that someone was 
totally blind would not be able to react to.


– Bill & Leader Dog Holland

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type2Phone

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

I just wanted to follow up on my earlier post about this, because I thought 
some of you might not know about the app, and it's pretty cool.

I did get it working, and it is a very cool app that allows you to use your Mac 
as a Bluetooth keyboard for your iPhone.  Of course, if you're after 
compactness, then you're better off just getting a small BT keyboard.  But if 
you're going to have your Mac with you anyway, this gives you the ability to 
have a BT keyboard for your phone, and all the power and storage of your Mac.  
Very convenient.  Again, the app is called Type2Phone.
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: Wide vs. narrow iPhone

[syc20099]

I also have a 6S Plus because I never knew that I would like a bigger phone 
until i got one. I like the size, the speaker and what not it's certainly 
better than 5S. This all comes down to personal choice however.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 24, 2016, at 9:37 AM, Sandra E. Finley  wrote:
> 
> George,  if you are able too get to an Apple store, go and try them all and 
> see what works for you. I bought a 6S plus because I like the Braille input 
> apps . With the larger phone I feel my hands are in a more natural position 
> to enter Braille. I know this is not what you asked about, but I also like 
> the longer battery life and I think music has a better sound.
> 
> Having said that, there is no substitute for trying them all out yourself.  
> 
> Sandy
> 
> 
> 24, 2016, at 3:18 AM, George Cassell  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Considering the size of the new iPhone versus the 6 series of iPhones, which 
>> is better to negotiate as far as  navigating and entering the various 
>> gestures?
>> 
>> Is the smaller iPhone easier or harder as a result of it’s size?
>> 
>> — George
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: Anyone install OS X 10.11.4?

[Devin Prater]

They also fixed the bug where using VOICEOVER-L to go around the main page of 
Applevis would not work past the first link or so. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 24, 2016, at 9:57 AM, matthew dyer  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Yes I am running it here and see nothing different here.  I am guessing that 
> the changes are under the hood.  You do have the ability to password protect 
> notes if you want f that counts for anything.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
>> On 03/23/2016 05:20 PM, syc20...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I have installed it on my Mac, personally I do not see any difference, but 
>> maybe perhaps they solved under the hood. I heard live photos will be 
>> available, but I am not sure.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 4:17 PM, Denise Barajas  wrote:
>> 
>>> I've installed it, but I don't see mch of a difference. the only thing that 
>>> is currently odd is that VO sometimes goes from speaking through my 
>>> internal speakers from the USB. It's every so offten, so I'll try and flip 
>>> VO off and on again to see if that fixes the issue. blessings to all.
 On Mar 23, 2016, at 5:56 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
 
 I've not noticed any difference in Alex for the Mac. 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Mar 23, 2016, at 2:09 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Hi Ray,
> 
> I fully agree,
> 
> I've only been using macs for a few years because I needed to learn them 
> for work.
> 
> Now I'm one of the 5 people my office come to when they have mac issues 
> and I do most of the machine reinsatllations for my team and that's from 
> start to  finish with a reconfiguration 
> And as I'm the only with sight issues, people can't figure out how we do 
> it without being able to see.
> 
> 
> I so wish ms would setup an installation system like apple 
> have.-Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret jr
> Sent: Wednesday, 23 March 2016 1:30 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Anyone install OS X 10.11.4?
> 
> Let me make one thing perfectly clear.  I have done a clean install with 
> the latest update and no problems what so ever.  Do not be fooled in to 
> thinking that you, as a blind Mac user, cannot cleanly install the OS 
> without sighted assistance.  This is one of the major selling points that 
> drew me away from windows and to the Mac back in  2009.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray Still a very happy Mac, Verizon 
> Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 5:20 AM, William Gallik  wrote:
>> 
>> As a totally blind user, I'm asking if it would still be prudent to do a 
>> clean install with the latest version of OSX rather than an update?
>> 
>> I am still on Yosemite with my Mac Mini, a friend who is also totally 
>> blind had her cited husband execute an update and she is having no 
>> problems. However, I have to wonder if the fact that he could see what 
>> he was doing made it feasible for him to react to any information or 
>> questions on the screen that someone was totally blind would not be able 
>> to react to.
>> 
>> – Bill & Leader Dog Holland
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
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>> 
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Re: Changing e-mail from All Messages to most recent 150 in Pop3 Gmail account on iPhone 6 running iOS9.X

[Kevin Gibbs]

Jonathan,
It seems that changing my mailbox behavior so that my deleted messages are 
routed to the trash seems to work.  I don't have the energy to Combs through my 
archives mailbox to clean things out. But it least this is solved for the 
future on my iPhone 6.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 7:30 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
> 
> Well, it seems the settings on the google Gmail web page are significantly 
> smaller than I remember. 
> 
> I saw an option to limit map box sizes but not pop.
> 
> Also, in terms of the Archive/All mail folder, that is what Google wants us 
> to do save everything forever so we they can create more effective 
> advertising.
> 
> There is an imap option that says when you delete a message from every map 
> folder to delete the message, and I think there used to be an equivalent 
> function for pop but now I can’t find it.
> 
> Oh, and the automatically reading of messages when using “n” when in 
> conversation mode on the GMAIL web site does not work now. It also does not 
> work for JAWS and IE 8 though it does work in WindowEyes and IE8.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> 
> 
>> On 23 Mar 2016, at 19:51, Kevin Gibbs  wrote:
>> 
>> Jonathan,
>> 
>> I just discovered something I didn’t know before.  Apparently, when i delete 
>> an e-mail from my Gmail account on my iPhone, it goes to the Archive 
>> Mailbox.  On further research, the Archive mailbox is All Mail, not Trash.  
>> This appears to mean that all e-mails, both those which I mean to delete and 
>> those which I don’t, are all in one mailbox.  As an experiment, I deleted 
>> your original message from my All Mail box.  It is now gone from my phone.  
>> That’s no big deal.  It’s on my Mac.  But that clearly means that there is 
>> no way to selectively delete all the mail I’ve supposedly gotten rid of over 
>> the past year and change.  this really stinks.  I’d be curious to hear any 
>> further thoughts.
>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 6:33 PM, Kevin Gibbs  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jonathan,
>>> 
>>> I can’t seem to find Google Configurations.  Is that somewhere on the 
>>> iPhone under Mail, Contacts, Calendars?  When I look at my Gmail account 
>>> there, I do find an iMap prefix under Advance.  There is nothing written 
>>> there.  There is also no place where the account is identified as either 
>>> iMap or Pop3.  Where would I find this?  It is definitely behaving as a 
>>> Pop3 because items deleted from my phone are not deleted from my Mac.  this 
>>> is exactly as I would expect.  So, how do I find out what my phone 
>>> considers this account.  It was definitely a POP3 on my iPhone 4.  
>>> Everything was just migrated wholesale when i connected the iPhone 6 to 
>>> iTunes upon purchase.  So, I have no reason to believe that this account 
>>> wouldn’t remain a POP3. Any guidance appreciated.
>>> Kevin
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Mar 23, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Jonathan Cohn  wrote:
 
 I believe this is a setting in Google configurations. Are you sure your 
 new phone is still using POP? The IMAP protocol has been in more favour 
 recently since it will keep everything in sync. 
 
 Perhaps if you delete your gmail account, disable IMAP service from the 
 Gmail settings and then re-add your account to the phone everything will 
 work as you want.
 
 
 Best wishes,
 
 Jonathan
 
 
 
> On 21 Mar 2016, at 01:37, Kevin Gibbs  wrote:
> 
> guys,
> 
> I’m sorry if the subject line isn’t clear.  It used to be that my Gmail 
> account, which is a Pop3 on my iPhone, used to only download the most 
> recent 150 messages, or so.  When I upgraded from my iPhone 4, running 
> iOS 6.x, to my iPhone 6, running iOS 8 and then 9, my Pop3 account 
> changed so that tens of thousands of e-mails were downloaded to my phone. 
>  Space is not an issue.  but I really wish I could change this so that it 
> works the way my iPhone 4 used to.  that is, I only want 150 messages, or 
> less, on my phone unless I choose to “see more.”  Can this be changed?
> 
> Sorry if I already posted this.  
> thanks,
> Kevin
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
> Visionaries list.
>  
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>  
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>  
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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Re: the 4-finger swipe

[Gerard Doody]

Hi all, I went to an at&t store and they couldn’t get it to work on my iPhone 
6.  However, on the urging of someone on this list, I tried it again, and it 
indeed does work.  I will try the bvertical thing though.  thanks, Jerrry Doody 
jerrydood...@gmail.com
On Mar 24, 2016, at 10:09 am, Jenine Stanley  wrote:

I finally got it to work most of the time and it’s a magical gesture. I love 
going from one open app to another. I’m doing it vertically which is much 
easier and more reliable so thanks to whoever suggested that.
Jenine Stanley
dragonwalke...@gmail.com



> On Mar 24, 2016, at 8:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> This is a good one, and here I was only familiar with the one finger solute.;)
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 3:07 PM, Sandra E. Finley  wrote:
>> 
>> I like this gesture. It enables you to move from app to app without wearing 
>> out your home button.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 12:01 PM, Traci Duncan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I love this gesture!  :)  I thought I’d point out, that yes, we swipe left 
>>> or right, but your 4 fingers can be vertical or horizontal.  I just opened 
>>> 3 apps & tried this.  For me, having my 4 fingers vertical is a lot easier 
>>> & more comfortable on the slender 6s screen.
>>> 
>>> HTH, Traci
>>> 
 On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 Works on the iPhone 5 too.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
> On 3/23/2016 2:25 AM, Ray Foret jr wrote:
> YOu sure the four finger swipe works on the iPhone 6 or 6+?  I guess it 
> must only work on the 6S and 6S+ because it sure doesn’t work for me on 
> my 6+.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 1:10 AM, Ben J Bloomgren  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Mary and all,
>> 
>> AppleVis has put up some tutorials as to the new features both in TVOS 
>> 9.2 and iOS 9.3.
>> 
>> Ben
>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 12:28 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I just tried before finger gesture for the first time when in mail. It 
>>> flipped to Safari. First shot. There was a bit of a delay, but it work.
>>> Mary
>>> PS, running an iPhone 6s.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Mar 22, 2016, at 12:20 PM, Jenine Stanley 
  wrote:
 
 It allows you, from an open app, to move back and forth through your 
 other open apps as you would with the app switcher. Again, it’s not 
 something for which there is no other gesture or way to access but 
 something that’s pretty nifty and more like a multi-tasking feel if 
 you will.
 
 I was all over the 3D touch gesture when we got it to access the app 
 switcher and yes, it is or at least seems to be so far, much more 
 stable in 9.3.
 Jenine Stanley
 dragonwalke...@gmail.com
 
 
 
> On Mar 22, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Christina C.  
> wrote:
> 
> what is it supposed to accomplish?
> 
> 
>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 1:10 PM, Jenine Stanley 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Is anyone else having trouble getting the 4-finger left and right 
>> swipe gesture to work? I love the concept of what it’s supposed to 
>> do but I can’t get it to work.
>> 
>> I have a 6S and small hands but somehow the swipe just doesn’t work.
>> 
>> It took me a while to get the 3-finger swipe to work though so maybe 
>> I just need to go into the VO practice area for a while with it.
>> Jenine Stanley
>> dragonwalke...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 
>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please 
>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the 
>> list itself.
>> 
>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is 
>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googleg

Re: the 4-finger swipe

[Sandra E. Finley]

For what it may be worth to some, I found that, the first few times I tried 
this gesture I was really using only three fingers because my pinky was not 
really touching the phone. Once I adjusted my hand the small amount required to 
compensate for this all worked fine. HTH 

Sandy

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 24, 2016, at 5:30 PM, Gerard Doody  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, I went to an at&t store and they couldn’t get it to work on my iPhone 
> 6.  However, on the urging of someone on this list, I tried it again, and it 
> indeed does work.  I will try the bvertical thing though.  thanks, Jerrry 
> Doody 
> jerrydood...@gmail.com
> On Mar 24, 2016, at 10:09 am, Jenine Stanley  wrote:
> 
> I finally got it to work most of the time and it’s a magical gesture. I love 
> going from one open app to another. I’m doing it vertically which is much 
> easier and more reliable so thanks to whoever suggested that.
> Jenine Stanley
> dragonwalke...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 24, 2016, at 8:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> This is a good one, and here I was only familiar with the one finger 
>> solute.;)
>> 
>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 3:07 PM, Sandra E. Finley  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I like this gesture. It enables you to move from app to app without wearing 
>>> out your home button.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Mar 23, 2016, at 12:01 PM, Traci Duncan  wrote:
 
 I love this gesture!  :)  I thought I’d point out, that yes, we swipe left 
 or right, but your 4 fingers can be vertical or horizontal.  I just opened 
 3 apps & tried this.  For me, having my 4 fingers vertical is a lot easier 
 & more comfortable on the slender 6s screen.
 
 HTH, Traci
 
> On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Works on the iPhone 5 too.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
>> On 3/23/2016 2:25 AM, Ray Foret jr wrote:
>> YOu sure the four finger swipe works on the iPhone 6 or 6+?  I guess it 
>> must only work on the 6S and 6S+ because it sure doesn’t work for me on 
>> my 6+.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the 
>> blind built-in
>> 
>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>> Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 1:10 AM, Ben J Bloomgren 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mary and all,
>>> 
>>> AppleVis has put up some tutorials as to the new features both in TVOS 
>>> 9.2 and iOS 9.3.
>>> 
>>> Ben
 On Mar 22, 2016, at 12:28 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 I just tried before finger gesture for the first time when in mail. It 
 flipped to Safari. First shot. There was a bit of a delay, but it work.
 Mary
 PS, running an iPhone 6s.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Mar 22, 2016, at 12:20 PM, Jenine Stanley 
>  wrote:
> 
> It allows you, from an open app, to move back and forth through your 
> other open apps as you would with the app switcher. Again, it’s not 
> something for which there is no other gesture or way to access but 
> something that’s pretty nifty and more like a multi-tasking feel if 
> you will.
> 
> I was all over the 3D touch gesture when we got it to access the app 
> switcher and yes, it is or at least seems to be so far, much more 
> stable in 9.3.
> Jenine Stanley
> dragonwalke...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Christina C.  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> what is it supposed to accomplish?
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 1:10 PM, Jenine Stanley 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is anyone else having trouble getting the 4-finger left and right 
>>> swipe gesture to work? I love the concept of what it’s supposed to 
>>> do but I can’t get it to work.
>>> 
>>> I have a 6S and small hands but somehow the swipe just doesn’t work.
>>> 
>>> It took me a while to get the 3-finger swipe to work though so 
>>> maybe I just need to go into the VO practice area for a while with 
>>> it.
>>> Jenine Stanley
>>> dragonwalke...@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this 
>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please 
>>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on 
>>> the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Ma

Re: the 4-finger swipe

[Jenine Stanley]

For me it also worked that way, initially I was not using all 4 fingers. then I 
tried the vertical gesture and even tried using my thumb instead of pinky, 
which also works btw. 

Finally I hit the sweet spot and now seem to have the kinaesthetic memory and 
can do it easily.
Jenine Stanley
dragonwalke...@gmail.com



> On Mar 24, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Sandra E. Finley  wrote:
> 
> For what it may be worth to some, I found that, the first few times I tried 
> this gesture I was really using only three fingers because my pinky was not 
> really touching the phone. Once I adjusted my hand the small amount required 
> to compensate for this all worked fine. HTH 
> 
> Sandy
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 24, 2016, at 5:30 PM, Gerard Doody  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all, I went to an at&t store and they couldn’t get it to work on my 
>> iPhone 6.  However, on the urging of someone on this list, I tried it again, 
>> and it indeed does work.  I will try the bvertical thing though.  thanks, 
>> Jerrry Doody 
>> jerrydood...@gmail.com
>> On Mar 24, 2016, at 10:09 am, Jenine Stanley  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I finally got it to work most of the time and it’s a magical gesture. I love 
>> going from one open app to another. I’m doing it vertically which is much 
>> easier and more reliable so thanks to whoever suggested that.
>> Jenine Stanley
>> dragonwalke...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 24, 2016, at 8:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> This is a good one, and here I was only familiar with the one finger 
>>> solute.;)
>>> 
 On Mar 23, 2016, at 3:07 PM, Sandra E. Finley  
 wrote:
 
 I like this gesture. It enables you to move from app to app without 
 wearing out your home button.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Mar 23, 2016, at 12:01 PM, Traci Duncan  wrote:
> 
> I love this gesture!  :)  I thought I’d point out, that yes, we swipe 
> left or right, but your 4 fingers can be vertical or horizontal.  I just 
> opened 3 apps & tried this.  For me, having my 4 fingers vertical is a 
> lot easier & more comfortable on the slender 6s screen.
> 
> HTH, Traci
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 8:08 AM, E.T.  wrote:
>> 
>> Works on the iPhone 5 too.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> Many believe that we have been visited
>> in the past. What if it were true?
>> 
>>> On 3/23/2016 2:25 AM, Ray Foret jr wrote:
>>> YOu sure the four finger swipe works on the iPhone 6 or 6+?  I guess it 
>>> must only work on the 6S and 6S+ because it sure doesn’t work for me on 
>>> my 6+.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Mac, The only computer with full accessibility for the 
>>> blind built-in
>>> 
>>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>>> Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>>> 
 On Mar 23, 2016, at 1:10 AM, Ben J Bloomgren 
  wrote:
 
 Mary and all,
 
 AppleVis has put up some tutorials as to the new features both in TVOS 
 9.2 and iOS 9.3.
 
 Ben
> On Mar 22, 2016, at 12:28 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I just tried before finger gesture for the first time when in mail. 
> It flipped to Safari. First shot. There was a bit of a delay, but it 
> work.
> Mary
> PS, running an iPhone 6s.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 12:20 PM, Jenine Stanley 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> It allows you, from an open app, to move back and forth through your 
>> other open apps as you would with the app switcher. Again, it’s not 
>> something for which there is no other gesture or way to access but 
>> something that’s pretty nifty and more like a multi-tasking feel if 
>> you will.
>> 
>> I was all over the 3D touch gesture when we got it to access the app 
>> switcher and yes, it is or at least seems to be so far, much more 
>> stable in 9.3.
>> Jenine Stanley
>> dragonwalke...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Christina C.  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> what is it supposed to accomplish?
>>> 
>>> 
 On Mar 22, 2016, at 1:10 PM, Jenine Stanley 
  wrote:
 
 Is anyone else having trouble getting the 4-finger left and right 
 swipe gesture to work? I love the concept of what it’s supposed to 
 do but I can’t get it to work.
 
 I have a 6S and small hands but somehow the swipe just doesn’t 
 work.
 
 It took me a while to get the 3-finger swipe to work though so 
 maybe I just need to go into the VO practice area for a while with 
 it.
 Jenine Stanl

RE: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event

[Simon Fogarty]

Have thought about it or linux infact, but just can't be bothered starting from 
scratch again 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Friday, 25 March 2016 1:46 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event

Simon, why don’t you run a Unix variant on your servers and just be done with 
it.  Much greater stability, great remote access and to say it’s tested and 
true for decades is an understatement.

OSX server is just Unix with a pretty wrapper.

> On Mar 24, 2016, at 2:44 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
> 
> Interesting,
> 
> I'm only really getting started with macs but the hardware is excelant and 
> the OS brilliant, but I can't go past the windows OS and jaws for power use 
> with my servers, however most of that would be due to lack of time with OSX 
> server.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2016 1:32 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event
> 
> Well look it’s not entirely Microsoft’s fault.  I’ll be the first to bash the 
> folks in Redmond but in this case the NFB had a lot to do with it as well.  
> There were payoffs made by certain screen reader manufacturers to the NFB to 
> have the NFB protest the creation of built in accessibility.  After all, Ted 
> Henter doesn’t make any money if Apple and Microsoft give away screen readers 
> for free.  You will also note there were several hit pieces against Apple 
> written by the same organization.  It’s just Apple ignored them.
> 
> So Microsoft of course by now should do more but there’s history there.
> 
> Apple also always had a soft spot in a lot of us older blind folks heart 
> because it was likely one of the first somewhat accessible computers we used. 
>  The Apple 2 series had all sorts of add on voice synthesis cards that 
> started to open the door for us.  It’s how I started.
> 
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 4:07 AM, Simon Fogarty  wrote:
>> 
>> Scott,
>> 
>> Would you  say apple don't listen even though we can contact them when there 
>> is an accessibility issue with a IOS or OSC system and they work quickly to 
>> correct the issues.
>> Full stop they have listened enough to give us accessible platforms out of 
>> the box.
>> What do Microsoft do for us?
>> 
>> They always leave it up to the third parties.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
>> Sent: Wednesday, 23 March 2016 7:37 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Anyone else disappointed with the "big" apple event
>> 
>> It’s really not in apple’s culture to listen to consumers.  Remember their 
>> attitude is they come up with great products we can’t live with out.:)  
>> Remember the antenna issue.  It wasn’t a flaw in the design it was the user 
>> holding the phone the wrong way according to apple.
>> 
>> You hav ea good point that companies should listen to customers and 
>> generally do well if they do but I never have thought of apple as being big 
>> listeners.  I could be wrong maybe others feel differently.  Apple though 
>> was always to me that closed black box that just works and solves a problem 
>> I didn’t know i had.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 2:34 PM, Vaughn Brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> In all of this I wonder if consumers are not voices what they would 
>>> like Apple to develop directly to Apple. How can a product be 
>>> developed without a demand?
>>> Vaughn
>>> 
>>> On 3/22/16, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>>  wrote:
 Another perspective is that most people don't know a great thing 
 until there are a few years of hindsight. I remember one of my 
 co-workers got one of the very first iPhones and I couldn't figure 
 out why. It was a battery hog, heavy and my little folding phone made 
 calls just as well.
 Who knew then what the trajectory would be? There is also 1.0 
 iteration issues. The original Lisa was expensive, slow and buggy 
 but they kept iterating on the basic strong bit of a more human-centered 
 interface.
 That eventually became the Mac and it's been pretty good since.
 Lessons learned from the Newton as well. So is today's Apple Watch 
 just a Newton or Lisa - a good core idea that is usable today but 
 needs more development? Maybe AppleTV is just iPhone 1.0 and we 
 haven't realized where it's going to go.
 
 There is one snag in the IoT when those are durable goods. Most 
 devices are running about a 3-year life cycle but my fridge, TV and 
 thermostat are expected to go much longer than that. So what 
 happens to my iOS enabled fridge when iOS 15 comes out? TVs are 
 reall

Re: How to add an item to the dock?

[Jonathan Cohn]

FWIW, I was able in the latest OS to get the VO drag commands to move something 
to the dock.

1. Go into system preferences- Dock and uncheck “Automatically hide and show 
the Dock unchecked checkbox” 
2. Don’t use the drag command but instead use the drag after or drag before 
commands ( vo-Greater and VO-< )

Though generally, I just use the contextual menu when the application is 
running.

I wonder if that would be considered an accessibility bug that the Dock hides 
itself before the drag operation can complete  
Certainly, sighted folks can use spring loaded folders and other wizbang stuff 
when dragging and dropping. Though I can’t imagine exactly how such would be 
controlled. 

Best wishes,

Jonathan



> On 24 Mar 2016, at 10:20, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Thank you, Shawn!!!  I knew there was a command to do this, but I couldn't 
> find it on my Mac using Spotlight, nor could I turn it up using Google.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Mar 24, 2016, at 9:03 AM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna. Alternatively, if the app isn't running in the background, find it 
>> in the Applications folder and then press Control+Command+Shift+T. HTH.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On Mar 24, 2016, at 8:42 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong?  I'm trying to add an item to the 
>>> dock.  I press CMD comma to mark it, then CMD . to move it.  I just keep 
>>> getting the dragging noise.  The Mac seems to want a third keystroke, but I 
>>> have no idea what that would be.  Have tried space, Enter, and VO-Space, 
>>> but they all just abort the drag and Drop.  Alternatively, if there's a 
>>> keyboard command that would do this, I'd love to know.  I've searched the 
>>> menus for such a command, but have not found it.  
>>> TIA,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac 
>>> Visionaries list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
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>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> Visit this group at https://

pdf and mac question

[Jean]

Hello All:
I have a document which is about 260 pages and contains quite a lot of photos 
and figures. If it is converted from word to pdf on a mac it ends up being 115 
megs in size. But if it is converted on a pc it become 6 megs. Why is this? 
What is the difference in files?
Jean

-- 
The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
list.

If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you 
feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.

Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn 
- you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com

The archives for this list can be searched at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: pdf and mac question

[John Weir]

because the PC automatically zip it.   Ie compresses it to send. You can 
do the same with the mac.  John


On 3/24/16 7:27 PM, Jean wrote:

Hello All:
I have a document which is about 260 pages and contains quite a lot of photos 
and figures. If it is converted from word to pdf on a mac it ends up being 115 
megs in size. But if it is converted on a pc it become 6 megs. Why is this? 
What is the difference in files?
Jean



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