adium versions?

[Singing Sparrow]

what adium version should i try ?
I have 1.5.10 or 1.5.11 or 1.6 or 1.7
Which should i try?
the 1.5.10 is the stable build and the 1.5.11 b2 is a beta the 1.6 and 
1.7 are nightly builds.

Which version should i try?

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Re: adium versions?

[Shawn Krasniuk]

If you're wanting to connect to Facebook, short answer is neither. Adium no 
longer supports Facebook, and according to a friend of mine that has used it 
for years, they no longer support Facebook through the Jabber protocol. If you 
want a client for Facebook, my recommendation is Trillian. Others use Messages 
with it, but others can chime in to help you set it up if you want to go that 
route since I don't use Messages with Facebook.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 3:00 AM, Singing Sparrow  wrote:
> 
> what adium version should i try ?
> I have 1.5.10 or 1.5.11 or 1.6 or 1.7
> Which should i try?
> the 1.5.10 is the stable build and the 1.5.11 b2 is a beta the 1.6 and 1.7 
> are nightly builds.
> Which version should i try?
> 
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Re: Major setbacks with El Capitan

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

So, now, I have even a more concerning issue.

This went from me being annoyed to now me being majorly pissed off!  I 
booted to the backup image I have of Yosemite, and reimaged it back over to 
my internal drive.


That took what seemed like an eternity!  Finally, it finnished.  Once it did 
however, I noticed as I'd fallen asleep while it was finnishing.  I got 
tired of waiting... anyway... I noticed that my screen was completely off, 
totally dimmed.  The light on my external hard drive still was on though, 
and was solid, not flickerring.  therefore, I knew the drive wasn't 
reading/writing anything.  I hit fn+F2 a few times just in case my 
brightness somehow got turned way down.  Nothing at all happened.


I pressed and immediately released the power button, thinking maybe this 
would somehow wake the thing up.  Wishful thinking!  It didn't.  I knew that 
the image has finnished copying as though I'd lied down, I just so happened 
to have been awake when it finnished, so I heard Voiceover tell me last 
night it was done with no errors.


So, I did the only logical thing left to do.  I hated it, but I didn't have 
a choice.  I held in the power button until the system went off.  I then 
unplugged the drive from my USB, and powered on the system.


I heard the chime, waited for about 15 years, then finally the stupid thing 
came up and told me I'd improperly shut down with open windows, do I want to 
reopen them, or cancel.  I hit cancel.  This way I'd be starting fresh.


The system then booted, and I got to my Finder.  As soon as the finder came 
up, the screen went black again, and Voiceover totally shat the bed again. 
Command+F5 did nothing.  Neither did fn+Command+F5.


I plugged my drive back in, and tried rebooting.  No good.  Yes, I tried 
booting holding down the option key, to get to the boot menu, hoping maybe 
it was just a need of switching the startup disk.  That did absolutely no 
good.


Finally, I decided at my last gut, to just wipe the damn thing clean.  So, I 
botted, and held down command+R to get into recovery.  When I did that, the 
apple came up on the screen with the white background right after the chime. 
About 10 seconds later, that went away, and I had a solid white screen with 
nothing.  No text, no menu, no mouse pointer, no icons, no apple, no 
spinning wheel, no hourglass, nothing.  Just solid solid white.  That sat 
there for literally all eternity.  It's now been over 1&1/2 hours, and the 
thing still is sitting on that white screen.


I'm probably going to have to make a bootable USB Yosemite install disk, and 
hope and pray that the dad blame thing boots so I can repartition, reformat, 
and then reinstall.


Needless to say, I totally get that people are installing 10.11 with no 
issue, but I stand to say that at least in my case, everything I do is 
coming to a dead end.  Frankly, I am a very advanced user, and wouldn't 
normally pannick like this, but I'm starting to wonder if my macbook is now 
toast.


This is driving me crazy, so any suggestions, and I'd be very happy.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "M. Taylor" 

To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2015 2:30 AM
Subject: RE: Major setbacks with El Capitan


Hello Christopher,

Thank you so much for providing such a comprehensive description of your 
reasons for returning to Yosemite.


I cannot speak as to the problems you're experiencing in iTunes but the mail 
app is my most valued application in all of OS X.


I have not encountered any problems in the Mail application; however, I do 
not test or use it in the Classic view.  Even during the beta cycle, my 
focus is primarily based on the default view, set to conversation without 
showing the related messages option) complete with the preview pane intact. 
Also, the only voices I use with VoiceOver are Alex and my beloved Samantha.


I would be interested to learn of your experience should you decide to 
explore the default view layout in El Capitan Mail.


As an F Y I, I decided to learn to use the default view in preparation for 
the day when Apple decides to discontinue the classic view option.  Never 
forget that they summarily discontinued the beloved iTunes Sidebar.  When it 
comes to Apple, the only constant is that things will change.


Thank you again.

Mark

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark 
Gilland

Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 7:44 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Major setbacks with El Capitan

OK.  Let me start by saying one positive thing.

El Capitan looks like it has the potential to be a great OS.  This being 
said, I'm at a position where even on my personal computers, not just on my 
work audio production machine, I have made the decision to go back to 
Yosemite, and not touch El Capitan with a 10 foot poll until some of these 
issues I'm having are worked out.  Below are all the things so far I've 
observed.  Again, realize that I am

Re: Major setbacks with El Capitan

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I think we covered that already.  Yes.  All the tracks play fine on my 
production machine where it was initially ripped.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Singing Sparrow 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2015 2:55 AM
  Subject: Re: Major setbacks with El Capitan


  are you sure the import went as it should?


  On 10/3/2015 9:43 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

OK.  Let me start by saying one positive thing.

El Capitan looks like it has the potential to be a great OS.  This being 
said, I'm at a position where even on my personal computers, not just on my 
work audio production machine, I have made the decision to go back to Yosemite, 
and not touch El Capitan with a 10 foot poll until some of these issues I'm 
having are worked out.  Below are all the things so far I've observed.  Again, 
realize that I am not complaining.  Over time, I'm sure a lot of this will get 
fixed, but at least for the time being, this is ridiculous!

Busy Busy Busy!

This is the main bug which has caused me to say screw it!  I'm going back.  
No matter what voice I use, be it Alex, any of the Nuance voices, Any of the 
Acapela TTS voices, whatever, practically every single app I have tried is 
almost constantly reporting busy busy busy.  Finally when the app does! switch 
to ready status, it only stays there for a fraction of a second, then goes busy 
again.

Can't Edit nor backspace text in Mail

This one's really aggervating.  When typing an e-mail message, be it a 
reply, a forward, or just totally from scratch, I can edit/backspace text up to 
a certain point which I've not totally benchmarked, but after a certain point, 
pressing the backspace key, or trying to move around and edit my message 
doesn't work.  Apparently, it works, but Voiceover says absolutely nothing.  
When I try backspacing characters, Voiceover is totally silent.

Message List Table in Mail is slightly Broken

I should start this one by saying that I'm using the classic view of Mail.  
I'm not sure if that matters, but i somehow doubt it does.  It used to be that 
I could vo+right arrow to the messages group and interact with it.  Then, I 
could vo+right arrow to the message list table.  Then, without interacting at 
all, I could simply down arrow through the list of messages.  Not VO+Down 
arrow.  I'm literally saying just down arrow.  The advantage of doing it this 
way was that I wasn't interacting with the table, thereby making it where 
virtically, it would only read one column at a time.  This way each row would 
read all columns at once.  So right away, I knew who the message was from, the 
subject, etc.  Now, if I try doing this, just by down arrowing when I reach the 
table, Voiceover says absolutely nothing.  When I press return on a message, 
it's not throwing me to the content of the message.  It's very inconsistent, so 
I can't really tell you where it lands, as it seems to be kind a 
scatterbrained.  Once I do! however get on the area with the message content, 
regardless if I interact with the text field and use vo+up and down arrow to 
read, or if I don't interact at all, but just up and down arrow to read, Mail 
usually goes completely busy and by busy, I don't mean Voiceover saying busy.  
I mean it goes so busy to the point where literally nothing! speaks.  Trying to 
command+tab out of the Mail app sometimes works, but usually Voiceover lags for 
a good 30 seconds to a full minute before catching up.  When it does! catch 
back up I notice in the Mail app that I no longer have focus on the message 
content, as it's jumped to some other random place like the message headers, 
etc.  Yes, to rimity these issues, I did try restarting Voiceover, and yes, 
I've also fully tried rebooting.

ITunes 12.3, and ICloud Music Library

I am subscribed both to Apple Music, as well as to ITunes Match.  I have a 
CD which is *definitely!* not in the ITunes Store, nor in Apple Music.  I know 
this as it's by a local artist, and she herself has told me directly that she's 
not on ITunes, nor has any intention to be.  Anyway, I manually tagged all the 
tracks with the correct name, genre, an album title.  I then imported the disc 
into my library with my audio production system.  That worked absolutely 
perfectly.  Now, mind you, that system is on Yosemite 10.10.5, but hear me out 
on this.  I was going to lay down tonight and listen to that disc, seeing the 
CD is all lullabys.  That mood was ruinned real! fast.  I have uploaded from my 
production machine, the entire CD to my ICloud library.  In my room, I went on 
my white polycarbon macbook, running the official non beta release of El 
Capitan, and also running ITunes 12.3.  Both that system, as well as my audio 
production machine here in the studio have ICloud Music library enabled and set 
to be viewable.  When I pulled up ITunes on my macbook, I saw the album in 
there by Renee Carter, but none of the t

Re: Major setbacks with El Capitan

[Ray Foret Jr]

Quite frankly, I reckon, based on your description of all that has befallen 
you, you've got some mighty major core systemic issues which can only be 
resolved by entirely replacing your computer.


Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in!!!

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 3:28 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> So, now, I have even a more concerning issue.
> 
> This went from me being annoyed to now me being majorly pissed off!  I booted 
> to the backup image I have of Yosemite, and reimaged it back over to my 
> internal drive.
> 
> That took what seemed like an eternity!  Finally, it finnished.  Once it did 
> however, I noticed as I'd fallen asleep while it was finnishing.  I got tired 
> of waiting... anyway... I noticed that my screen was completely off, totally 
> dimmed.  The light on my external hard drive still was on though, and was 
> solid, not flickerring.  therefore, I knew the drive wasn't reading/writing 
> anything.  I hit fn+F2 a few times just in case my brightness somehow got 
> turned way down.  Nothing at all happened.
> 
> I pressed and immediately released the power button, thinking maybe this 
> would somehow wake the thing up.  Wishful thinking!  It didn't.  I knew that 
> the image has finnished copying as though I'd lied down, I just so happened 
> to have been awake when it finnished, so I heard Voiceover tell me last night 
> it was done with no errors.
> 
> So, I did the only logical thing left to do.  I hated it, but I didn't have a 
> choice.  I held in the power button until the system went off.  I then 
> unplugged the drive from my USB, and powered on the system.
> 
> I heard the chime, waited for about 15 years, then finally the stupid thing 
> came up and told me I'd improperly shut down with open windows, do I want to 
> reopen them, or cancel.  I hit cancel.  This way I'd be starting fresh.
> 
> The system then booted, and I got to my Finder.  As soon as the finder came 
> up, the screen went black again, and Voiceover totally shat the bed again. 
> Command+F5 did nothing.  Neither did fn+Command+F5.
> 
> I plugged my drive back in, and tried rebooting.  No good.  Yes, I tried 
> booting holding down the option key, to get to the boot menu, hoping maybe it 
> was just a need of switching the startup disk.  That did absolutely no good.
> 
> Finally, I decided at my last gut, to just wipe the damn thing clean.  So, I 
> botted, and held down command+R to get into recovery.  When I did that, the 
> apple came up on the screen with the white background right after the chime. 
> About 10 seconds later, that went away, and I had a solid white screen with 
> nothing.  No text, no menu, no mouse pointer, no icons, no apple, no spinning 
> wheel, no hourglass, nothing.  Just solid solid white.  That sat there for 
> literally all eternity.  It's now been over 1&1/2 hours, and the thing still 
> is sitting on that white screen.
> 
> I'm probably going to have to make a bootable USB Yosemite install disk, and 
> hope and pray that the dad blame thing boots so I can repartition, reformat, 
> and then reinstall.
> 
> Needless to say, I totally get that people are installing 10.11 with no 
> issue, but I stand to say that at least in my case, everything I do is coming 
> to a dead end.  Frankly, I am a very advanced user, and wouldn't normally 
> pannick like this, but I'm starting to wonder if my macbook is now toast.
> 
> This is driving me crazy, so any suggestions, and I'd be very happy.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "M. Taylor" 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2015 2:30 AM
> Subject: RE: Major setbacks with El Capitan
> 
> 
> Hello Christopher,
> 
> Thank you so much for providing such a comprehensive description of your 
> reasons for returning to Yosemite.
> 
> I cannot speak as to the problems you're experiencing in iTunes but the mail 
> app is my most valued application in all of OS X.
> 
> I have not encountered any problems in the Mail application; however, I do 
> not test or use it in the Classic view.  Even during the beta cycle, my focus 
> is primarily based on the default view, set to conversation without showing 
> the related messages option) complete with the preview pane intact. Also, the 
> only voices I use with VoiceOver are Alex and my beloved Samantha.
> 
> I would be interested to learn of your experience should you decide to 
> explore the default view layout in El Capitan Mail.
> 
> As an F Y I, I decided to learn to use the default view in preparation for 
> the day when Apple decides to discontinue the classic view option.  Never 
> forget that they summarily discontinued the beloved iTunes Sidebar.  When it 
> comes to Apple, the only constant is that things will change.
> 
> Thank you again.
> 
> Mark
> 
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionarie

Re: Awful Mail Bug in El Capitan

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

It’s not really clear to me either.  Prior versions of Mail.app didn’t do that, 
but I’m fairly sure Yosemite was affected too.  Other mail clients that are 
engineered to tolerate disconnection don’t have a problem because all the state 
is maintained locally.  For now, my only suggestion for the best results is to 
use stable network connections that are unlikely to falter, such as wired over 
wireless.  I’ll be moving to a local in-house mail server soon, which should 
make things even more rock solid, though I of course understand that the 
Internet is still the norm for most.

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Re: My initial impression of El Capitan curious bugs or device specific

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

the hot spot your talking is on the help menu on the voice over on general then 
hot sopt, it says to go to the next hot spot VO right bracket to go to previous 
hotspot VO left bracket.
About safari i do have a lot of busy busy too since i am using late 2013 mac 
book pro i7 15 inches.
> On 03 Oct 2015, at 9:09 PM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> Been using El Capitan for a little bit and am curious if some of these might 
> just be me or if other people have noticed them as well. Overall I am 
> impressed with the quickness of El Capitan, as most apps seem to be running 
> very smoothly and quicker than they were in Yosemite. I am running a iMac 
> late 2010, and know some of these may be because the computer is an old man.
> 
> 1. I use keyboard commander to pull up a lot of my apps. Most of the time 
> when I pull up mail VO does not read the current app that has been pulled up 
> but I notice it mostly that VO does not say mail when I use a keyboard 
> commander to pull it up, it just appears. Will have to check to see if I have 
> VO verbosity set to low which I probably do in mail and this could be the 
> cause.
> 
> 2. I have always been a big user of web spots as for a lot of sites I find it 
> to be the quickest way to get to where I want to go. I was excited to hear 
> about window spots and assumed these would work the same way as web spots. I 
> am disappointed that VO command right and left bracket does not cycle you 
> through the window spots you create like web spots do. 
> I have not found a keyboard shortcut to cycle quickly through window spots, 
> and the arrow keys do not seem to jump you from one window spot to the next. 
> You seem to have to pull up the Window Spots rotor to navigate. Hopefully 
> this will be fixed in future releases.
> 
> 3 Links not being read in safari. This has got to be the biggest bug I have 
> encountered as I have a website that has a ton of links that I use QuickNav 
> to get through, and 80% of the time hitting the down arrow to the next link 
> lands you on the link but VO does not read it. I have to go back to the 
> previous link with the arrows then down arrow again and then the link is 
> read. Quite frustrating, and hoping to hear this might be my ancient computer 
> and not a universal bug.
> 
> 4 In mail drag and drop seems to work much better when putting a mailbox in 
> to favorites, but does not work at all when looking to remove a mailbox from 
> favorites. Have yet to figure out a way to remove a mailbox from favorites.
> 5 I am still getting a lot of busy busy messages in safari finder and mail 
> but this could be my ancient 2010, and I have not done a clean install which 
> if I decide to do am hoping will fix this. 
> 
> Just some initial thoughts, and overall if you are comfortable with using 
> Yosemite and do not mind a few minor bugs I would say it is safe to update.. 
> . 
> 
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Re: help with start up disk almost full

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

thanks but i already figure out the problem.i i just have to delete the other 
partition that i accidentally created but i didn't see on disk utility. i have 
to to the partition go see that other disk.
> On 03 Oct 2015, at 9:45 PM, Grant  wrote:
> 
> Installing OS X Yosemite converted most volumes to core storage, so believe 
> me when I say this situation impacted Yosemite as well. By far the simplest 
> solution would be to wipe the disk, but as I say I understand why you would 
> not want to do this. Have you tried booting from internet recovery as I 
> suggested with COMMAND+OPTION+R? That seemed to reallocate the free space on 
> my startup volume—and I have no idea why. Perhaps it has to do with tests 
> that were performed on the hard disk, or with recreating the recovery 
> partition.
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 11:52:50 PM, Dionipher Presas Herrera 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> yeah, i just want to turn bback to yosemite since the disk utility is much 
>> less complicated. i tried partitioning and repartitioning on yosemite before 
>> but i have no problem on that. only here on el capitan.
>>> On 03 Oct 2015, at 7:49 AM, Grant  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I’ve had this same problem with OS X Yosemite where unallocated space was 
>>> difficult to manage on my primary volume once I tried to manually 
>>> repartition the disk. I think it has something to do with Yosemite and up 
>>> converting disks to core storage 
>>> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Storage). I researched this in quite a 
>>> bit of depth some weeks ago and I found many interesting ideas for 
>>> resolving the problem, like this one 
>>> (http://awesometoast.com/yosemite-core-storage-and-partition-woes/). 
>>> However, I decided to try something much simpler first. Rather than booting 
>>> from the recovery partition, I booted from Internet Recovery using 
>>> COMMAND+OPTION+R. This recreates the recovery partition and does some quick 
>>> tests as well on your hard drive and memory. For whatever reason, doing 
>>> this caused my free space to show as being reallocated back to my startup 
>>> partition. Give it a shot and if you don’t want to erase your disk, which I 
>>> understand, it may be worth doing some further reading on the topic of core 
>>> storage and partitioning as I’m far from an expert on the topic. And the 
>>> usual disclaimers apply, e.g. back up your data before attempting any 
>>> troubleshooting steps.
>>> 
>>> Grant
>>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 2:45 PM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> yes i did all that, but there was a thread on mac rumors that on el capitan 
>>> this is broke. i need a command on terminal. can somebody help.
 On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:51 PM, Jeffrey Shockley  wrote:
 
 Hi,
 Here’s what I did. This might work, not sure, since I didn’t change 
 anything.
 What you need to do is find where it has the name of the device in the 
 table, at the very top, and click Partition in the toolbar. It looks like 
 you can resize and add and remove partitions from there.
 I hope this helps,
 Jeffrey
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera 
>  wrote:
> 
> i did already tried it but the problem still exist. when i try to expand 
> my hard drive to 500 i wil automatically goes to 143 gb, which i am 
> trying to partition a while ago.
>> On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:23 PM, Dionipher Presas Herrera 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> ok, i'll try
>>> On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:04 PM, Jeffrey Shockley  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> The easiest thing would be that I can think of is to boot into Recovery 
>>> Mode and open Disc Utility from there, and just the partition there. It 
>>> just might work. :)
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> Jeffrey
 On Oct 2, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera 
  wrote:
 
 hello everyone can somebody help me adjust my hard disk i accidentally 
 lower my hard drive to 100 gb now my computer is saying that my start 
 up disk is almost ful. but i do have 512 gb disk. i can't adjust it on 
 my disk utility from el capitan now. thanks for the help
 
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Re: Two Interesting Things That Occurred During My Installation of El Capitan

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

i installed my el capitan well because on the installation process voice over 
won't speak, you have to open voice over at the time of the installation. this 
is also hapen to me when i installed yosemite.
> On 04 Oct 2015, at 8:14 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Craig,
> 
> As a new Mac user, you should be extremely proud of yourself.  It takes a lot 
> of guts to install a new OS, especially after so short of a time at the helm. 
>  
> 
> Just think about it, both you and I came up with the exact same solution and 
> I've been doing this for over 7 years; I don't know if that says more about 
> you or about me (big, big smile).  My point is that, in my opinion, you did 
> the correct thing in powering down the computer and rebooting.  
> 
> As for how the OS was successfully installed, suffice me to say that all of 
> the proverbial heavy-lifting was already done by the time the setup assistant 
> was launched.  This is just a guess but I suspect that the problem for both 
> of us was simply some kind of a video display glitch.  Generally speaking, 
> the setup assistant assesses what passwords and such need to be entered by 
> the user before proceeding.  However, all of the mission-crucial tasks have 
> already been completed.
> 
> After my reboot, I received a couple of password prompts that I would 
> probably have received during the setup process, nothing more.  
> 
> Finally, as for the issues you are encountering, if you feel up to it, I 
> would appreciate it if you would begin a new thread detailing them so we can 
> all compare notes, as it were.
> 
> Craig, well done on your installation and, if I have not expressed the 
> sentiment earlier, welcome to the family.
> 
> Mark
> 
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Werner
> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 7:02 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Two Interesting Things That Occurred During My Installation of 
> El Capitan
> 
> Mark, the installer progress bar lingered for me as well.  I did the same 
> thing as you did: turn off the machine and then turn it back on.  I don't 
> know know how El Capitan installed itself, but it did.  This odd behavior is 
> especially disturbing to me as a new Mac user of two months.  I am wondering 
> if some of the problems I am having with El Capitan are due to the way it was 
> installed--a process I rather bumbled my way through.  I'm not at all proud 
> of my achievement and am now thinking of reverting back to Yosemite.
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
> On Saturday, October 3, 2015, M. Taylor  wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I cannot recall if this has been covered, on-list, but thought I would share
> two issues of some note, that occurred during my installation of El Capitan.
> 
> 1.
> Upon successful download of El Capitan from the App Store, the installer did
> not automatically launch.  This did not bother me as I always cancel the
> installer until I make a USB install key.
> 
> 2.
> Rather than wiping my hard drive clean and installing El Capitan, fresh,
> which I intend to do in a couple of weeks, I elected to install the OS over
> the current install of Yosemite.  Upon restarting, and after the setup
> assistant had launched, the install progress screen refused to disappear.  I
> could enable/disable VoiceOver, I could use several of the VoiceOver
> commands but the installation progress window, containing the Apple logo and
> a completed progress bar remained.  After about an hour of waiting, I
> powered down the computer and restarted.  All has been well ever since.
> 
> Just a quick note to say that I never experienced this behavior during the
> beta cycle.
> 
> Mark
> 
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> Fo

Re: Awful Mail Bug in El Capitan

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

here's is the solution, delete all the messages on you trash.  that did solve 
my problem on yosemite and maybe here in el capitan too.
> On 04 Oct 2015, at 11:31 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> It’s not really clear to me either.  Prior versions of Mail.app didn’t do 
> that, but I’m fairly sure Yosemite was affected too.  Other mail clients that 
> are engineered to tolerate disconnection don’t have a problem because all the 
> state is maintained locally.  For now, my only suggestion for the best 
> results is to use stable network connections that are unlikely to falter, 
> such as wired over wireless.  I’ll be moving to a local in-house mail server 
> soon, which should make things even more rock solid, though I of course 
> understand that the Internet is still the norm for most.
> 
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Re: Major setbacks with El Capitan

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I'm starting to wonder.  I admittedly did finally! get the USB image to boot, 
but, pardon my language, god! damn! is it going slow!  I finally did manage to 
completely wipe my internal macintosh HD while in the USB drive.

I'm going to therefore try one final time to get OSX reinstalled.  Let's hope 
for success this time around.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ray Foret Jr 
  To: Mac Visionaries List 
  Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2015 5:12 AM
  Subject: Re: Major setbacks with El Capitan


  Quite frankly, I reckon, based on your description of all that has befallen 
you, you've got some mighty major core systemic issues which can only be 
resolved by entirely replacing your computer.




  Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

  Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!


  Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in!!!



On Oct 4, 2015, at 3:28 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


So, now, I have even a more concerning issue.

This went from me being annoyed to now me being majorly pissed off!  I 
booted to the backup image I have of Yosemite, and reimaged it back over to my 
internal drive.

That took what seemed like an eternity!  Finally, it finnished.  Once it 
did however, I noticed as I'd fallen asleep while it was finnishing.  I got 
tired of waiting... anyway... I noticed that my screen was completely off, 
totally dimmed.  The light on my external hard drive still was on though, and 
was solid, not flickerring.  therefore, I knew the drive wasn't reading/writing 
anything.  I hit fn+F2 a few times just in case my brightness somehow got 
turned way down.  Nothing at all happened.

I pressed and immediately released the power button, thinking maybe this 
would somehow wake the thing up.  Wishful thinking!  It didn't.  I knew that 
the image has finnished copying as though I'd lied down, I just so happened to 
have been awake when it finnished, so I heard Voiceover tell me last night it 
was done with no errors.

So, I did the only logical thing left to do.  I hated it, but I didn't have 
a choice.  I held in the power button until the system went off.  I then 
unplugged the drive from my USB, and powered on the system.

I heard the chime, waited for about 15 years, then finally the stupid thing 
came up and told me I'd improperly shut down with open windows, do I want to 
reopen them, or cancel.  I hit cancel.  This way I'd be starting fresh.

The system then booted, and I got to my Finder.  As soon as the finder came 
up, the screen went black again, and Voiceover totally shat the bed again. 
Command+F5 did nothing.  Neither did fn+Command+F5.

I plugged my drive back in, and tried rebooting.  No good.  Yes, I tried 
booting holding down the option key, to get to the boot menu, hoping maybe it 
was just a need of switching the startup disk.  That did absolutely no good.

Finally, I decided at my last gut, to just wipe the damn thing clean.  So, 
I botted, and held down command+R to get into recovery.  When I did that, the 
apple came up on the screen with the white background right after the chime. 
About 10 seconds later, that went away, and I had a solid white screen with 
nothing.  No text, no menu, no mouse pointer, no icons, no apple, no spinning 
wheel, no hourglass, nothing.  Just solid solid white.  That sat there for 
literally all eternity.  It's now been over 1&1/2 hours, and the thing still is 
sitting on that white screen.

I'm probably going to have to make a bootable USB Yosemite install disk, 
and hope and pray that the dad blame thing boots so I can repartition, 
reformat, and then reinstall.

Needless to say, I totally get that people are installing 10.11 with no 
issue, but I stand to say that at least in my case, everything I do is coming 
to a dead end.  Frankly, I am a very advanced user, and wouldn't normally 
pannick like this, but I'm starting to wonder if my macbook is now toast.

This is driving me crazy, so any suggestions, and I'd be very happy.

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "M. Taylor" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2015 2:30 AM
Subject: RE: Major setbacks with El Capitan


Hello Christopher,

Thank you so much for providing such a comprehensive description of your 
reasons for returning to Yosemite.

I cannot speak as to the problems you're experiencing in iTunes but the 
mail app is my most valued application in all of OS X.

I have not encountered any problems in the Mail application; however, I do 
not test or use it in the Classic view.  Even during the beta cycle, my focus 
is primarily based on the default view, set to conversation without showing the 
related messages option) complete with the preview pane intact. Also, the only 
voices I use with VoiceOver are Alex and my beloved Samantha.

I would be interested to learn of your experience should you decide to 

Re: Two Interesting Things That Occurred During My Installation of El Capitan

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

That's normal.  Voiceover isn't gonna speak by default when the installer is 
launched.  It assumes by default you're sighted.  Just hit command+F5, and 
you'll be well on your way... well... according to my! situation, all I can 
say is... let's hope!  LOL!


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Dionipher Presas Herrera" 

To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2015 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: Two Interesting Things That Occurred During My Installation of 
El Capitan



i installed my el capitan well because on the installation process voice 
over won't speak, you have to open voice over at the time of the 
installation. this is also hapen to me when i installed yosemite.

On 04 Oct 2015, at 8:14 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:

Hello Craig,

As a new Mac user, you should be extremely proud of yourself.  It takes a 
lot of guts to install a new OS, especially after so short of a time at 
the helm.


Just think about it, both you and I came up with the exact same solution 
and I've been doing this for over 7 years; I don't know if that says more 
about you or about me (big, big smile).  My point is that, in my opinion, 
you did the correct thing in powering down the computer and rebooting.


As for how the OS was successfully installed, suffice me to say that all 
of the proverbial heavy-lifting was already done by the time the setup 
assistant was launched.  This is just a guess but I suspect that the 
problem for both of us was simply some kind of a video display glitch. 
Generally speaking, the setup assistant assesses what passwords and such 
need to be entered by the user before proceeding.  However, all of the 
mission-crucial tasks have already been completed.


After my reboot, I received a couple of password prompts that I would 
probably have received during the setup process, nothing more.


Finally, as for the issues you are encountering, if you feel up to it, I 
would appreciate it if you would begin a new thread detailing them so we 
can all compare notes, as it were.


Craig, well done on your installation and, if I have not expressed the 
sentiment earlier, welcome to the family.


Mark

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Werner

Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 7:02 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Two Interesting Things That Occurred During My Installation 
of El Capitan


Mark, the installer progress bar lingered for me as well.  I did the same 
thing as you did: turn off the machine and then turn it back on.  I don't 
know know how El Capitan installed itself, but it did.  This odd behavior 
is especially disturbing to me as a new Mac user of two months.  I am 
wondering if some of the problems I am having with El Capitan are due to 
the way it was installed--a process I rather bumbled my way through.  I'm 
not at all proud of my achievement and am now thinking of reverting back 
to Yosemite.


Craig


On Saturday, October 3, 2015, M. Taylor  wrote:
Hello Everyone,

I cannot recall if this has been covered, on-list, but thought I would 
share
two issues of some note, that occurred during my installation of El 
Capitan.


1.
Upon successful download of El Capitan from the App Store, the installer 
did

not automatically launch.  This did not bother me as I always cancel the
installer until I make a USB install key.

2.
Rather than wiping my hard drive clean and installing El Capitan, fresh,
which I intend to do in a couple of weeks, I elected to install the OS 
over

the current install of Yosemite.  Upon restarting, and after the setup
assistant had launched, the install progress screen refused to disappear. 
I

could enable/disable VoiceOver, I could use several of the VoiceOver
commands but the installation progress window, containing the Apple logo 
and

a completed progress bar remained.  After about an hour of waiting, I
powered down the computer and restarted.  All has been well ever since.

Just a quick note to say that I never experienced this behavior during the
beta cycle.

Mark

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Re: Two Interesting Things That Occurred During My Installation of El Capitan

[Craig Werner]

Thank you, Mark, for your compliments. Actually, the reboot I performed was
more of an act of desperation than it was calculated strategy, so I don't
think the praise is entirely deserved, but I am appreciative of the
encouragement because so often, over the past few months, I have considered
returning to Windows as I ascend Mount Mac. (smile)

The only issues I have found with El Capitan so far are the "Safari busy"
problem and the disappearance of the "new mail" sound when new messages are
received. Both, I believe, have been documented on this list. I'll keep
everyone informed as to new discoveries.

Craig


On Sunday, October 4, 2015, M. Taylor  wrote:

> Hello Craig,
>
> As a new Mac user, you should be extremely proud of yourself.  It takes a
> lot of guts to install a new OS, especially after so short of a time at the
> helm.
>
> Just think about it, both you and I came up with the exact same solution
> and I've been doing this for over 7 years; I don't know if that says more
> about you or about me (big, big smile).  My point is that, in my opinion,
> you did the correct thing in powering down the computer and rebooting.
>
> As for how the OS was successfully installed, suffice me to say that all
> of the proverbial heavy-lifting was already done by the time the setup
> assistant was launched.  This is just a guess but I suspect that the
> problem for both of us was simply some kind of a video display glitch.
> Generally speaking, the setup assistant assesses what passwords and such
> need to be entered by the user before proceeding.  However, all of the
> mission-crucial tasks have already been completed.
>
> After my reboot, I received a couple of password prompts that I would
> probably have received during the setup process, nothing more.
>
> Finally, as for the issues you are encountering, if you feel up to it, I
> would appreciate it if you would begin a new thread detailing them so we
> can all compare notes, as it were.
>
> Craig, well done on your installation and, if I have not expressed the
> sentiment earlier, welcome to the family.
>
> Mark
>
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Craig Werner
> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 7:02 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: Two Interesting Things That Occurred During My Installation
> of El Capitan
>
> Mark, the installer progress bar lingered for me as well.  I did the same
> thing as you did: turn off the machine and then turn it back on.  I don't
> know know how El Capitan installed itself, but it did.  This odd behavior
> is especially disturbing to me as a new Mac user of two months.  I am
> wondering if some of the problems I am having with El Capitan are due to
> the way it was installed--a process I rather bumbled my way through.  I'm
> not at all proud of my achievement and am now thinking of reverting back to
> Yosemite.
>
> Craig
>
>
> On Saturday, October 3, 2015, M. Taylor >
> wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I cannot recall if this has been covered, on-list, but thought I would
> share
> two issues of some note, that occurred during my installation of El
> Capitan.
>
> 1.
> Upon successful download of El Capitan from the App Store, the installer
> did
> not automatically launch.  This did not bother me as I always cancel the
> installer until I make a USB install key.
>
> 2.
> Rather than wiping my hard drive clean and installing El Capitan, fresh,
> which I intend to do in a couple of weeks, I elected to install the OS over
> the current install of Yosemite.  Upon restarting, and after the setup
> assistant had launched, the install progress screen refused to disappear.
> I
> could enable/disable VoiceOver, I could use several of the VoiceOver
> commands but the installation progress window, containing the Apple logo
> and
> a completed progress bar remained.  After about an hour of waiting, I
> powered down the computer and restarted.  All has been well ever since.
>
> Just a quick note to say that I never experienced this behavior during the
> beta cycle.
>
> Mark
>
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Re: Reinstallation.

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

OK, step the first is to download the thing from the MAS.  Go to the Mac App 
Store, find the OS you want, and download.  Once you have it, it will open 
automatically offering to install; quit the Installer.

The next step is trickier.  If someone has a graphical approach, post it now; 
otherwise, you’ll be using the command line.  Put your USB key in, and use the 
createinstallmedia tool.  Instructions are here:
http://osxdaily.com/2015/09/30/create-os-x-el-capitan-boot-install-drive/

Now, you will boot that drive, use Disk Utility to erase your internal disk, 
and perform the installation.  But that’s for later, once you have the drive 
ready to go.

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Re: Major setbacks with El Capitan

[Devin Prater]

Yep, I've seen the busy thing. Also, when I first start up the computer, things 
are pretty slow at first, like voiceover actually sees the Google Drive and 
dropbox windows, which have no content, as they launch. Alex, and the premium 
high, or enhanced, vocalizer voices are sluggish, very sluggish, even after an 
update. Alex is choppy, still. Voiceover still doesn't speak every element, 
like its how it used to cut itself off, but now it doesn't even speak that 
element at all, so I have to do voiceover left and right again to hear it, this 
is most often in webpages. I don't know, maybe I'll just spend more time in my 
vm of XP.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 3, 2015, at 9:43 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> OK.  Let me start by saying one positive thing.
>  
> El Capitan looks like it has the potential to be a great OS.  This being 
> said, I'm at a position where even on my personal computers, not just on my 
> work audio production machine, I have made the decision to go back to 
> Yosemite, and not touch El Capitan with a 10 foot poll until some of these 
> issues I'm having are worked out.  Below are all the things so far I've 
> observed.  Again, realize that I am not complaining.  Over time, I'm sure a 
> lot of this will get fixed, but at least for the time being, this is 
> ridiculous!
>  
> Busy Busy Busy!
> 
>  
> This is the main bug which has caused me to say screw it!  I'm going back.  
> No matter what voice I use, be it Alex, any of the Nuance voices, Any of the 
> Acapela TTS voices, whatever, practically every single app I have tried is 
> almost constantly reporting busy busy busy.  Finally when the app does! 
> switch to ready status, it only stays there for a fraction of a second, then 
> goes busy again.
>  
> Can't Edit nor backspace text in Mail
> 
>  
> This one's really aggervating.  When typing an e-mail message, be it a reply, 
> a forward, or just totally from scratch, I can edit/backspace text up to a 
> certain point which I've not totally benchmarked, but after a certain point, 
> pressing the backspace key, or trying to move around and edit my message 
> doesn't work.  Apparently, it works, but Voiceover says absolutely nothing.  
> When I try backspacing characters, Voiceover is totally silent.
>  
> Message List Table in Mail is slightly Broken
> 
>  
> I should start this one by saying that I'm using the classic view of Mail.  
> I'm not sure if that matters, but i somehow doubt it does.  It used to be 
> that I could vo+right arrow to the messages group and interact with it.  
> Then, I could vo+right arrow to the message list table.  Then, without 
> interacting at all, I could simply down arrow through the list of messages.  
> Not VO+Down arrow.  I'm literally saying just down arrow.  The advantage of 
> doing it this way was that I wasn't interacting with the table, thereby 
> making it where virtically, it would only read one column at a time.  This 
> way each row would read all columns at once.  So right away, I knew who the 
> message was from, the subject, etc.  Now, if I try doing this, just by down 
> arrowing when I reach the table, Voiceover says absolutely nothing.  When I 
> press return on a message, it's not throwing me to the content of the 
> message.  It's very inconsistent, so I can't really tell you where it lands, 
> as it seems to be kind a scatterbrained.  Once I do! however get on the area 
> with the message content, regardless if I interact with the text field and 
> use vo+up and down arrow to read, or if I don't interact at all, but just up 
> and down arrow to read, Mail usually goes completely busy and by busy, I 
> don't mean Voiceover saying busy.  I mean it goes so busy to the point where 
> literally nothing! speaks.  Trying to command+tab out of the Mail app 
> sometimes works, but usually Voiceover lags for a good 30 seconds to a full 
> minute before catching up.  When it does! catch back up I notice in the Mail 
> app that I no longer have focus on the message content, as it's jumped to 
> some other random place like the message headers, etc.  Yes, to rimity these 
> issues, I did try restarting Voiceover, and yes, I've also fully tried 
> rebooting.
>  
> ITunes 12.3, and ICloud Music Library
> 
>  
> I am subscribed both to Apple Music, as well as to ITunes Match.  I have a CD 
> which is *definitely!* not in the ITunes Store, nor in Apple Music.  I know 
> this as it's by a local artist, and she herself has told me directly that 
> she's not on ITunes, nor has any intention to be.  Anyway, I manually tagged 
> all the tracks with the correct name, genre, an album title.  I then imported 
> the disc into my library with my audio production system.  That worked 
> absolutely perfectly.  Now, mind you, that system is on Yosemite 10.10.5, but 
> hear me out on this.  I was going to lay down tonight and listen to that 
> disc, seeing the CD is all lullabys.  That mood was ruinned real! fast.  I 
> have uploaded from

Re: adium versions?

[Singing Sparrow]

how good is trillian? and how hard is it to set up?

On 10/4/2015 3:07 AM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote:

If you're wanting to connect to Facebook, short answer is neither. Adium no 
longer supports Facebook, and according to a friend of mine that has used it 
for years, they no longer support Facebook through the Jabber protocol. If you 
want a client for Facebook, my recommendation is Trillian. Others use Messages 
with it, but others can chime in to help you set it up if you want to go that 
route since I don't use Messages with Facebook.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com


On Oct 4, 2015, at 3:00 AM, Singing Sparrow  wrote:

what adium version should i try ?
I have 1.5.10 or 1.5.11 or 1.6 or 1.7
Which should i try?
the 1.5.10 is the stable build and the 1.5.11 b2 is a beta the 1.6 and 1.7 are 
nightly builds.
Which version should i try?

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Re: Major setbacks with El Capitan

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Well, this definitely has proven to be quite a nightmare!

I finally! managed to get Yosemite reinstalling to a freshly 
partitioned/formatted internal drive.  I'm really crossing my fingers here!

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Devin Prater 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2015 7:21 AM
  Subject: Re: Major setbacks with El Capitan


  Yep, I've seen the busy thing. Also, when I first start up the computer, 
things are pretty slow at first, like voiceover actually sees the Google Drive 
and dropbox windows, which have no content, as they launch. Alex, and the 
premium high, or enhanced, vocalizer voices are sluggish, very sluggish, even 
after an update. Alex is choppy, still. Voiceover still doesn't speak every 
element, like its how it used to cut itself off, but now it doesn't even speak 
that element at all, so I have to do voiceover left and right again to hear it, 
this is most often in webpages. I don't know, maybe I'll just spend more time 
in my vm of XP.

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Oct 3, 2015, at 9:43 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
wrote:


OK.  Let me start by saying one positive thing.

El Capitan looks like it has the potential to be a great OS.  This being 
said, I'm at a position where even on my personal computers, not just on my 
work audio production machine, I have made the decision to go back to Yosemite, 
and not touch El Capitan with a 10 foot poll until some of these issues I'm 
having are worked out.  Below are all the things so far I've observed.  Again, 
realize that I am not complaining.  Over time, I'm sure a lot of this will get 
fixed, but at least for the time being, this is ridiculous!

Busy Busy Busy!

This is the main bug which has caused me to say screw it!  I'm going back.  
No matter what voice I use, be it Alex, any of the Nuance voices, Any of the 
Acapela TTS voices, whatever, practically every single app I have tried is 
almost constantly reporting busy busy busy.  Finally when the app does! switch 
to ready status, it only stays there for a fraction of a second, then goes busy 
again.

Can't Edit nor backspace text in Mail

This one's really aggervating.  When typing an e-mail message, be it a 
reply, a forward, or just totally from scratch, I can edit/backspace text up to 
a certain point which I've not totally benchmarked, but after a certain point, 
pressing the backspace key, or trying to move around and edit my message 
doesn't work.  Apparently, it works, but Voiceover says absolutely nothing.  
When I try backspacing characters, Voiceover is totally silent.

Message List Table in Mail is slightly Broken

I should start this one by saying that I'm using the classic view of Mail.  
I'm not sure if that matters, but i somehow doubt it does.  It used to be that 
I could vo+right arrow to the messages group and interact with it.  Then, I 
could vo+right arrow to the message list table.  Then, without interacting at 
all, I could simply down arrow through the list of messages.  Not VO+Down 
arrow.  I'm literally saying just down arrow.  The advantage of doing it this 
way was that I wasn't interacting with the table, thereby making it where 
virtically, it would only read one column at a time.  This way each row would 
read all columns at once.  So right away, I knew who the message was from, the 
subject, etc.  Now, if I try doing this, just by down arrowing when I reach the 
table, Voiceover says absolutely nothing.  When I press return on a message, 
it's not throwing me to the content of the message.  It's very inconsistent, so 
I can't really tell you where it lands, as it seems to be kind a 
scatterbrained.  Once I do! however get on the area with the message content, 
regardless if I interact with the text field and use vo+up and down arrow to 
read, or if I don't interact at all, but just up and down arrow to read, Mail 
usually goes completely busy and by busy, I don't mean Voiceover saying busy.  
I mean it goes so busy to the point where literally nothing! speaks.  Trying to 
command+tab out of the Mail app sometimes works, but usually Voiceover lags for 
a good 30 seconds to a full minute before catching up.  When it does! catch 
back up I notice in the Mail app that I no longer have focus on the message 
content, as it's jumped to some other random place like the message headers, 
etc.  Yes, to rimity these issues, I did try restarting Voiceover, and yes, 
I've also fully tried rebooting.

ITunes 12.3, and ICloud Music Library

I am subscribed both to Apple Music, as well as to ITunes Match.  I have a 
CD which is *definitely!* not in the ITunes Store, nor in Apple Music.  I know 
this as it's by a local artist, and she herself has told me directly that she's 
not on ITunes, nor has any intention to be.  Anyway, I manually tagged all the 
tracks with the correct name, genre, an album title.  I then imported the disc 
into my library with my audio production sy

Re: adium versions?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

You'll love! Trillion!  It is literally the only instant messenger client, 
short of the Messages app, which I use with IMessage that I will touch!  I 
used to be a really big fan of Adium.  In some ways, I still am, but the 
time it takes to set up all your events manually by hand... It's so ungodly 
tedious that I finally just said to heck with it.


What I like so much about Trillion, as I told you a while back on Twitter 
is, it pretty well just works right out of the box.  Yeah, you'll have to 
sign up for a free Trillion account to get it working at all, but that's no 
big deal.  I don't even think there's a captcha.


If there is, get with me off list, and I'll help you, if needed.

Now that you're on Yosemite finally, I really really think you guys will 
like Trillion.  It works fantastically with Yosemite.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Singing Sparrow" 

To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2015 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: adium versions?


how good is trillian? and how hard is it to set up?

On 10/4/2015 3:07 AM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote:
If you're wanting to connect to Facebook, short answer is neither. Adium 
no longer supports Facebook, and according to a friend of mine that has 
used it for years, they no longer support Facebook through the Jabber 
protocol. If you want a client for Facebook, my recommendation is 
Trillian. Others use Messages with it, but others can chime in to help you 
set it up if you want to go that route since I don't use Messages with 
Facebook.


Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

On Oct 4, 2015, at 3:00 AM, Singing Sparrow  
wrote:


what adium version should i try ?
I have 1.5.10 or 1.5.11 or 1.6 or 1.7
Which should i try?
the 1.5.10 is the stable build and the 1.5.11 b2 is a beta the 1.6 and 
1.7 are nightly builds.

Which version should i try?

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What! a relief!

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Shewww!  I got Yosemite installed.  I'm just finnishing up the setup 
assistant now.  Wow that was a close call!

See my previous thread on setbacks to El Capitan for more information on what 
happened.

Chris.

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Re: Two Interesting Things That Occurred During My Installation of El Capitan

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

about the sound from the mail on my mac, i hear sounds whenever i receive an 
email.
> On 04 Oct 2015, at 12:59 PM, Craig Werner  wrote:
> 
> Thank you, Mark, for your compliments. Actually, the reboot I performed was 
> more of an act of desperation than it was calculated strategy, so I don't 
> think the praise is entirely deserved, but I am appreciative of the 
> encouragement because so often, over the past few months, I have considered 
> returning to Windows as I ascend Mount Mac. (smile)
> 
> The only issues I have found with El Capitan so far are the "Safari busy" 
> problem and the disappearance of the "new mail" sound when new messages are 
> received. Both, I believe, have been documented on this list. I'll keep 
> everyone informed as to new discoveries.
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
> On Sunday, October 4, 2015, M. Taylor  > wrote:
> Hello Craig,
> 
> As a new Mac user, you should be extremely proud of yourself.  It takes a lot 
> of guts to install a new OS, especially after so short of a time at the helm.
> 
> Just think about it, both you and I came up with the exact same solution and 
> I've been doing this for over 7 years; I don't know if that says more about 
> you or about me (big, big smile).  My point is that, in my opinion, you did 
> the correct thing in powering down the computer and rebooting.
> 
> As for how the OS was successfully installed, suffice me to say that all of 
> the proverbial heavy-lifting was already done by the time the setup assistant 
> was launched.  This is just a guess but I suspect that the problem for both 
> of us was simply some kind of a video display glitch.  Generally speaking, 
> the setup assistant assesses what passwords and such need to be entered by 
> the user before proceeding.  However, all of the mission-crucial tasks have 
> already been completed.
> 
> After my reboot, I received a couple of password prompts that I would 
> probably have received during the setup process, nothing more.
> 
> Finally, as for the issues you are encountering, if you feel up to it, I 
> would appreciate it if you would begin a new thread detailing them so we can 
> all compare notes, as it were.
> 
> Craig, well done on your installation and, if I have not expressed the 
> sentiment earlier, welcome to the family.
> 
> Mark
> 
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com  
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Craig 
> Werner
> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 7:02 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: Two Interesting Things That Occurred During My Installation of 
> El Capitan
> 
> Mark, the installer progress bar lingered for me as well.  I did the same 
> thing as you did: turn off the machine and then turn it back on.  I don't 
> know know how El Capitan installed itself, but it did.  This odd behavior is 
> especially disturbing to me as a new Mac user of two months.  I am wondering 
> if some of the problems I am having with El Capitan are due to the way it was 
> installed--a process I rather bumbled my way through.  I'm not at all proud 
> of my achievement and am now thinking of reverting back to Yosemite.
> 
> Craig
> 
> 
> On Saturday, October 3, 2015, M. Taylor > wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I cannot recall if this has been covered, on-list, but thought I would share
> two issues of some note, that occurred during my installation of El Capitan.
> 
> 1.
> Upon successful download of El Capitan from the App Store, the installer did
> not automatically launch.  This did not bother me as I always cancel the
> installer until I make a USB install key.
> 
> 2.
> Rather than wiping my hard drive clean and installing El Capitan, fresh,
> which I intend to do in a couple of weeks, I elected to install the OS over
> the current install of Yosemite.  Upon restarting, and after the setup
> assistant had launched, the install progress screen refused to disappear.  I
> could enable/disable VoiceOver, I could use several of the VoiceOver
> commands but the installation progress window, containing the Apple logo and
> a completed progress bar remained.  After about an hour of waiting, I
> powered down the computer and restarted.  All has been well ever since.
> 
> Just a quick note to say that I never experienced this behavior during the
> beta cycle.
> 
> Mark
> 
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Re: finder annoyance

[Chris Moore]

Donna,
Have you tried opening each folder in a separate window?  If you do this you 
can navigate between the different folders with cmd accent.  You can also close 
one window at a time with cmd w.

Chris
> On Oct 3, 2015, at 2:54 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi Ann,
> 
> I'm running the latest version of Yosemite.  I am using list view.
> 
> this is interesting.  The arrow keys weren't opening anything, so I've been 
> opening folders with CMD-o, and closing with CMD-w, which, as you say, closes 
> everything.  I just tried opening with CMD-down arrow.  If I do that, the 
> right arrow will work to open subsequent subfolders, and the left arrow will 
> then close each one one at a time.  Very weird.  Thanks for this, Ann.  I'd 
> never used CMD-Down arrow before, so wouldn't have sorted this out without 
> the info in your message.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2015, at 12:54 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Donna,
>> 
>> Which level of the OS are you using? Also, if you’re using List view, do you 
>> open folders by pressing right arrow? This opens the folders in the current 
>> window and Cmd-w will close everything. In list view, you should open 
>> subfolders with either Cmd-o or Cmd-Down Arrow. To collapse all the opened 
>> folders, press Left Arrow over and over again until everything is closed.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Anne
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3 Oct 2015, at 19:45, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Command W is what I'm using, and it's closing everything.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Oct 3, 2015, at 12:05 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
 
 How are you closing the window? I thought command W just closes one tab. 
 
 
 Jonathan Cohn 
 
> On Oct 3, 2015, at 8:56 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> How do I set up finder so that if I have multiple folders open and want 
> to close one of them, they don't all close?  I've tried checking and 
> unchecking open folders in Tabs instead of New Windows, but either way, 
> the behavior is the same.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Keychain on my I Mac.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Hi All.

I have had a night mare with my keychain for my Mac.

Yesterday after installing El Capitan on the iMac, I screwed up my Keychain and 
today I had to wipe the disk and start over.  Now however, I approved from my I 
phone 6 Plus S as I managed to remove the other phone from my trusted devices 
before I did a fresh install.  The only thing I don’t understand, even though I 
got a code from my I phone for the key chain, do I have to remember what it is 
and put it in each time I restart my Mac or do I get a different one?

Thanks.

I am very behind on this mail list as have been setting up my devices and still 
have to set it up on my Mac Mini.

Kawal.

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Re: finder annoyance

[Alex Hall]

You can also leave folders as they are, but press cmd-n before navigating to a 
new one. This way you can, say, leave your external drive open in one window, 
then move from your downloads folder to your documents folder in another, 
copying files from both over to the external drive.
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 09:20, Chris Moore  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
> Have you tried opening each folder in a separate window?  If you do this you 
> can navigate between the different folders with cmd accent.  You can also 
> close one window at a time with cmd w.
> 
> Chris
>> On Oct 3, 2015, at 2:54 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Ann,
>> 
>> I'm running the latest version of Yosemite.  I am using list view.
>> 
>> this is interesting.  The arrow keys weren't opening anything, so I've been 
>> opening folders with CMD-o, and closing with CMD-w, which, as you say, 
>> closes everything.  I just tried opening with CMD-down arrow.  If I do that, 
>> the right arrow will work to open subsequent subfolders, and the left arrow 
>> will then close each one one at a time.  Very weird.  Thanks for this, Ann.  
>> I'd never used CMD-Down arrow before, so wouldn't have sorted this out 
>> without the info in your message.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Oct 3, 2015, at 12:54 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Donna,
>>> 
>>> Which level of the OS are you using? Also, if you’re using List view, do 
>>> you open folders by pressing right arrow? This opens the folders in the 
>>> current window and Cmd-w will close everything. In list view, you should 
>>> open subfolders with either Cmd-o or Cmd-Down Arrow. To collapse all the 
>>> opened folders, press Left Arrow over and over again until everything is 
>>> closed.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Anne
>>> 
>>> 
 On 3 Oct 2015, at 19:45, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Command W is what I'm using, and it's closing everything.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Oct 3, 2015, at 12:05 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  
> wrote:
> 
> How are you closing the window? I thought command W just closes one tab. 
> 
> 
> Jonathan Cohn 
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2015, at 8:56 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> How do I set up finder so that if I have multiple folders open and want 
>> to close one of them, they don't all close?  I've tried checking and 
>> unchecking open folders in Tabs instead of New Windows, but either way, 
>> the behavior is the same.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Keychain on my I Mac.

[Alex Hall]

Keychain only needs that code once, unless you disable the feature later on.
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 09:36, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi All.
> 
> I have had a night mare with my keychain for my Mac.
> 
> Yesterday after installing El Capitan on the iMac, I screwed up my Keychain 
> and today I had to wipe the disk and start over.  Now however, I approved 
> from my I phone 6 Plus S as I managed to remove the other phone from my 
> trusted devices before I did a fresh install.  The only thing I don’t 
> understand, even though I got a code from my I phone for the key chain, do I 
> have to remember what it is and put it in each time I restart my Mac or do I 
> get a different one?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> I am very behind on this mail list as have been setting up my devices and 
> still have to set it up on my Mac Mini.
> 
> Kawal.
> 
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Re: Keychain on my I Mac.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

When I got the code, I did not put it in. And when I went to the iCloud 
preferences, it said key chain options. So am I to put the coding, if so, where?

Sent from my iPhone

> On 4 Oct 2015, at 2:43 p.m., Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> Keychain only needs that code once, unless you disable the feature later on.
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 09:36, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All.
>> 
>> I have had a night mare with my keychain for my Mac.
>> 
>> Yesterday after installing El Capitan on the iMac, I screwed up my Keychain 
>> and today I had to wipe the disk and start over.  Now however, I approved 
>> from my I phone 6 Plus S as I managed to remove the other phone from my 
>> trusted devices before I did a fresh install.  The only thing I don’t 
>> understand, even though I got a code from my I phone for the key chain, do I 
>> have to remember what it is and put it in each time I restart my Mac or do I 
>> get a different one?
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> I am very behind on this mail list as have been setting up my devices and 
>> still have to set it up on my Mac Mini.
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
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> 
> 
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> mehg...@icloud.com
> 
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Re: finder annoyance

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Chris,

I've cunhecked the option to open files in Tabs instead of windows in Finder 
Prefs, but that isn't doing it.  I used to have my Mac set up so that files 
opened in separate Windows, but somehow it's gotten changed.  I'd love to have 
it that way again.  Is there something else I need to check besides that one 
item in Finder Prefs?
Thanks,
Donna 
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:20 AM, Chris Moore  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
> Have you tried opening each folder in a separate window?  If you do this you 
> can navigate between the different folders with cmd accent.  You can also 
> close one window at a time with cmd w.
> 
> Chris
>> On Oct 3, 2015, at 2:54 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Ann,
>> 
>> I'm running the latest version of Yosemite.  I am using list view.
>> 
>> this is interesting.  The arrow keys weren't opening anything, so I've been 
>> opening folders with CMD-o, and closing with CMD-w, which, as you say, 
>> closes everything.  I just tried opening with CMD-down arrow.  If I do that, 
>> the right arrow will work to open subsequent subfolders, and the left arrow 
>> will then close each one one at a time.  Very weird.  Thanks for this, Ann.  
>> I'd never used CMD-Down arrow before, so wouldn't have sorted this out 
>> without the info in your message.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Oct 3, 2015, at 12:54 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Donna,
>>> 
>>> Which level of the OS are you using? Also, if you’re using List view, do 
>>> you open folders by pressing right arrow? This opens the folders in the 
>>> current window and Cmd-w will close everything. In list view, you should 
>>> open subfolders with either Cmd-o or Cmd-Down Arrow. To collapse all the 
>>> opened folders, press Left Arrow over and over again until everything is 
>>> closed.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Anne
>>> 
>>> 
 On 3 Oct 2015, at 19:45, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Command W is what I'm using, and it's closing everything.
 Cheers,
 Donna
> On Oct 3, 2015, at 12:05 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  
> wrote:
> 
> How are you closing the window? I thought command W just closes one tab. 
> 
> 
> Jonathan Cohn 
> 
>> On Oct 3, 2015, at 8:56 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> How do I set up finder so that if I have multiple folders open and want 
>> to close one of them, they don't all close?  I've tried checking and 
>> unchecking open folders in Tabs instead of New Windows, but either way, 
>> the behavior is the same.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: finder annoyance

[Donna Goodin]

Yeah, but the only way that seems to work for me is to select all my files.  It 
seems kind of unwieldy, but good to have as an option.  As I said, I used to 
have my Mac set up to open each folder in a separate window.  If there's a way, 
I'd love to go back to that.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> You can also leave folders as they are, but press cmd-n before navigating to 
> a new one. This way you can, say, leave your external drive open in one 
> window, then move from your downloads folder to your documents folder in 
> another, copying files from both over to the external drive.
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 09:20, Chris Moore  wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,
>> Have you tried opening each folder in a separate window?  If you do this you 
>> can navigate between the different folders with cmd accent.  You can also 
>> close one window at a time with cmd w.
>> 
>> Chris
>>> On Oct 3, 2015, at 2:54 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Ann,
>>> 
>>> I'm running the latest version of Yosemite.  I am using list view.
>>> 
>>> this is interesting.  The arrow keys weren't opening anything, so I've been 
>>> opening folders with CMD-o, and closing with CMD-w, which, as you say, 
>>> closes everything.  I just tried opening with CMD-down arrow.  If I do 
>>> that, the right arrow will work to open subsequent subfolders, and the left 
>>> arrow will then close each one one at a time.  Very weird.  Thanks for 
>>> this, Ann.  I'd never used CMD-Down arrow before, so wouldn't have sorted 
>>> this out without the info in your message.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
 On Oct 3, 2015, at 12:54 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
 
 Hello Donna,
 
 Which level of the OS are you using? Also, if you’re using List view, do 
 you open folders by pressing right arrow? This opens the folders in the 
 current window and Cmd-w will close everything. In list view, you should 
 open subfolders with either Cmd-o or Cmd-Down Arrow. To collapse all the 
 opened folders, press Left Arrow over and over again until everything is 
 closed.
 
 Cheers,
 
 Anne
 
 
> On 3 Oct 2015, at 19:45, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Command W is what I'm using, and it's closing everything.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Oct 3, 2015, at 12:05 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> How are you closing the window? I thought command W just closes one tab. 
>> 
>> 
>> Jonathan Cohn 
>> 
>>> On Oct 3, 2015, at 8:56 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> How do I set up finder so that if I have multiple folders open and want 
>>> to close one of them, they don't all close?  I've tried checking and 
>>> unchecking open folders in Tabs instead of New Windows, but either way, 
>>> the behavior is the same.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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Re: Using 3D touch with VoiceOver

[Donna Goodin]

Hey Scott,

I finally had time to take a look at this.  Very nice guide, thank you for 
taking the time to put it together, and for sharing it with us.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Sep 28, 2015, at 1:52 PM, Scott Davert  wrote:
> 
> Hi all.
> I developed both a guide and podcast on this, so for those struggling,
> maybe one or the other will help. The guide can be found at:
> http://applevis.com/guides/ios-iphone-voiceover/voiceover-users-guide-3d-touch-iphone-6s
> The podcast can be found at:
> http://applevis.com/podcast/episodes/demonstration-using-3d-touch-voiceover-iphone-6s-and-6s-plus
> 
> Scott
> 
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Apple Watch question re viewing activity info

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

I am using the modular watch face on my Apple Watch, and have activity set to 
one of the complications on the screen.  Prior to updating to 2.0, if I tapped 
on the activity complication, I saw a page that displayed a bunch of info: 
active minutes, calories burned, steps, miles, etc.  since 2.0, I am not able 
to bring that page up consistently.  Often I get just the abbreviated page, 
with the moving, exercising, standing info and then the page scrollbar. At this 
point I'm perplexed as to whether this is a bug, or whether it has something to 
do with force touch.  I seem to have to try to open the page about three times 
before I finally get it to show.  Sometimes it seems like holding my finger 
down helps, but other times that seems to just bring up the watch face 
selection page.  Has anyone else noticed this?  Has anyone figured out how to 
view the activity page consistently?
Cheers,
Donna

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Change language for the osx system on the mac.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
How do i change the language in osx?
I know i can go to system prefs and then i should go to language and region and 
in  that dialog i can drag the prefered language to the top but how do i drag 
an item with voiceover?
/A

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Re: Keychain on my I Mac.

[Alex Hall]

When you enable Keychain in iCloud, you'll be asked for the code. If you don't 
enter one, you should get a reminder later that "this Mac is waiting for a code 
to activate iCloud Keychain". If not, or if you missed it, just go back to 
iCloud Preferences and enable Keychain again, though that may generate a 
request for a new code. Either way, there should be a dialog with a text field 
where the code is entered. Well, it's more of four text fields through which 
the Mac auto-advances as you type each number, but it comes to the same thing.
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 09:51, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> When I got the code, I did not put it in. And when I went to the iCloud 
> preferences, it said key chain options. So am I to put the coding, if so, 
> where?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 4 Oct 2015, at 2:43 p.m., Alex Hall  wrote:
>> 
>> Keychain only needs that code once, unless you disable the feature later on.
>>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 09:36, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All.
>>> 
>>> I have had a night mare with my keychain for my Mac.
>>> 
>>> Yesterday after installing El Capitan on the iMac, I screwed up my Keychain 
>>> and today I had to wipe the disk and start over.  Now however, I approved 
>>> from my I phone 6 Plus S as I managed to remove the other phone from my 
>>> trusted devices before I did a fresh install.  The only thing I don’t 
>>> understand, even though I got a code from my I phone for the key chain, do 
>>> I have to remember what it is and put it in each time I restart my Mac or 
>>> do I get a different one?
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> I am very behind on this mail list as have been setting up my devices and 
>>> still have to set it up on my Mac Mini.
>>> 
>>> Kawal.
>>> 
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>> mehg...@icloud.com
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Re: Change language for the osx system on the mac.

[Alex Hall]

I haven't tried this because I don't use other languages, but did you try 
command-up or command-down? If not, there's another way to drag that I have to 
use a lot in Xcode which may work here. Of course, the usual dragging method 
(vo-comma to drag, vo-period to drop) may work as well.
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 11:42, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> How do i change the language in osx?
> I know i can go to system prefs and then i should go to language and region 
> and in  that dialog i can drag the prefered language to the top but how do i 
> drag an item with voiceover?
> /A
> 
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Re: Apple Watch question re viewing activity info

[John Panarese]

  If I double tap on the activity, I still get a screen that allows me to 
review the activity. You might have to go to the page chooser or change the 
page with a two finger swipe left or right, to see specific details for each 
category, but it still works here.

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 10:56 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I am using the modular watch face on my Apple Watch, and have activity set to 
> one of the complications on the screen.  Prior to updating to 2.0, if I 
> tapped on the activity complication, I saw a page that displayed a bunch of 
> info: active minutes, calories burned, steps, miles, etc.  since 2.0, I am 
> not able to bring that page up consistently.  Often I get just the 
> abbreviated page, with the moving, exercising, standing info and then the 
> page scrollbar. At this point I'm perplexed as to whether this is a bug, or 
> whether it has something to do with force touch.  I seem to have to try to 
> open the page about three times before I finally get it to show.  Sometimes 
> it seems like holding my finger down helps, but other times that seems to 
> just bring up the watch face selection page.  Has anyone else noticed this?  
> Has anyone figured out how to view the activity page consistently?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Battery life improved under IOS 9

[Phil Halton]

I heard that battery life was substantially improved under IOS9. Today I used 
Blind Square, all features, under ios9 for an hour and was surprised to see the 
battery usage was only 12%. Normally, that hour would have drained off 20 - 30% 
under IOS8. 
Maybe I won’t be needing the Mophie juice pack that I bought for an upcoming 
trip after all.

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Re: Reinstallation.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Ok, just one more question.
I have tried to download the el capitan but suddenly when the installer started 
i was asked to install mavericks?
That was really odd because i have a file in my aplications folder named osx el 
capitan installer app store download program.
Its only 306 kb so i don’t think its downloaded yet.
Maybe i did some mistakes so i clicked on a mavericks link.
But i thought they stopped mavericks.
Hmm, odd.
/A
> On 04 Oct 2015, at 13:12, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> OK, step the first is to download the thing from the MAS.  Go to the Mac App 
> Store, find the OS you want, and download.  Once you have it, it will open 
> automatically offering to install; quit the Installer.
> 
> The next step is trickier.  If someone has a graphical approach, post it now; 
> otherwise, you’ll be using the command line.  Put your USB key in, and use 
> the createinstallmedia tool.  Instructions are here:
> http://osxdaily.com/2015/09/30/create-os-x-el-capitan-boot-install-drive/
> 
> Now, you will boot that drive, use Disk Utility to erase your internal disk, 
> and perform the installation.  But that’s for later, once you have the drive 
> ready to go.
> 
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Re: Apple Watch question re viewing activity info

[Donna Goodin]

So do you still get the breakdown on the front page?  I used to be able to see 
calories burned, number of active minutes, and number of steps all by doing a 
double tap on the home screen.  Now more often than not, I do not get that 
information on the first page.
Cheers,
Donna
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 11:02 AM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>  If I double tap on the activity, I still get a screen that allows me to 
> review the activity. You might have to go to the page chooser or change the 
> page with a two finger swipe left or right, to see specific details for each 
> category, but it still works here.
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 10:56 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I am using the modular watch face on my Apple Watch, and have activity set 
>> to one of the complications on the screen.  Prior to updating to 2.0, if I 
>> tapped on the activity complication, I saw a page that displayed a bunch of 
>> info: active minutes, calories burned, steps, miles, etc.  since 2.0, I am 
>> not able to bring that page up consistently.  Often I get just the 
>> abbreviated page, with the moving, exercising, standing info and then the 
>> page scrollbar. At this point I'm perplexed as to whether this is a bug, or 
>> whether it has something to do with force touch.  I seem to have to try to 
>> open the page about three times before I finally get it to show.  Sometimes 
>> it seems like holding my finger down helps, but other times that seems to 
>> just bring up the watch face selection page.  Has anyone else noticed this?  
>> Has anyone figured out how to view the activity page consistently?
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Reinstallation.

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

It sounds like you may have picked up Mavericks, yeah.  Try again; go to the 
store and press Download after El Capitan.  The App Store download is a partial 
download in your Applications folder until it’s finished.  You can also go to 
the Purchases tab and look there to see how far it’s downloaded.

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Re: Apple Watch question re viewing activity info

[Daniel Miller]

Hi Dona,

If you turn the pro it will scroll the screen, enabling you to see that info. I 
just tried it and it works perfectly in watchOS 2.0.

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 12:43 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> So do you still get the breakdown on the front page?  I used to be able to 
> see calories burned, number of active minutes, and number of steps all by 
> doing a double tap on the home screen.  Now more often than not, I do not get 
> that information on the first page.
> Cheers,
> Donna
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 11:02 AM, John Panarese  wrote:
>> 
>> If I double tap on the activity, I still get a screen that allows me to 
>> review the activity. You might have to go to the page chooser or change the 
>> page with a two finger swipe left or right, to see specific details for each 
>> category, but it still works here.
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 10:56 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I am using the modular watch face on my Apple Watch, and have activity set 
>>> to one of the complications on the screen.  Prior to updating to 2.0, if I 
>>> tapped on the activity complication, I saw a page that displayed a bunch of 
>>> info: active minutes, calories burned, steps, miles, etc.  since 2.0, I am 
>>> not able to bring that page up consistently.  Often I get just the 
>>> abbreviated page, with the moving, exercising, standing info and then the 
>>> page scrollbar. At this point I'm perplexed as to whether this is a bug, or 
>>> whether it has something to do with force touch.  I seem to have to try to 
>>> open the page about three times before I finally get it to show.  Sometimes 
>>> it seems like holding my finger down helps, but other times that seems to 
>>> just bring up the watch face selection page.  Has anyone else noticed this? 
>>>  Has anyone figured out how to view the activity page consistently?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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Bugs in El Capitin.

[Sadam Ahmed]

Hi to the list,

Just wanted to let you guys know  that I've reported some the bugs 
mentioned to Apple.


Response is below.

Here's hoping they get to these  issues in the .1 release.

Hello,
Thank you for your email.  We appreciate the feedback and will pass this 
on to the appropriate people for their consideration.


Apple Accessibility

Kind regards,

Sadam Ahmed

Bachelor of Business Information Systems

RMIT University


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Re: Bugs in El Capitin.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Just their standard response.
> On 4 Oct 2015, at 20:11, Sadam Ahmed  wrote:
> 
> Hi to the list,
> 
> Just wanted to let you guys know  that I've reported some the bugs mentioned 
> to Apple.
> 
> Response is below.
> 
> Here's hoping they get to these  issues in the .1 release.
> 
> Hello,
> Thank you for your email.  We appreciate the feedback and will pass this on 
> to the appropriate people for their consideration.
> 
> Apple Accessibility
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Sadam Ahmed
> 
> Bachelor of Business Information Systems
> 
> RMIT University
> 
> 
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Re: Bugs in El Capitin.

[Sadam Ahmed]

Yes. Feels like an auto responder. 

Yours truly, 

Sadam Ahmed 

Sent from my iPhone 

-- 



> On 5 Oct 2015, at 7:00 AM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Just their standard response.
>> On 4 Oct 2015, at 20:11, Sadam Ahmed  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi to the list,
>> 
>> Just wanted to let you guys know  that I've reported some the bugs mentioned 
>> to Apple.
>> 
>> Response is below.
>> 
>> Here's hoping they get to these  issues in the .1 release.
>> 
>> Hello,
>> Thank you for your email.  We appreciate the feedback and will pass this on 
>> to the appropriate people for their consideration.
>> 
>> Apple Accessibility
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Sadam Ahmed
>> 
>> Bachelor of Business Information Systems
>> 
>> RMIT University
>> 
>> 
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Re: Bugs in El Capitin.

[E.T.]

   Which does not mean they are not going to actually read these 
emails. I don't understand why people think that they are ignoring then. 
Its standard business practice...and a good one too.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 10/4/2015 1:06 PM, Sadam Ahmed wrote:

Yes. Feels like an auto responder.

Yours truly,

Sadam Ahmed

Sent from my iPhone



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Re: adium versions?

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Not that hard at all. As Chris Gilland said, you'll need to create an account 
with Trillian before you can set up your accounts to work with it, but that's 
not hard since that's the first thing you see when you launch it, and no 
there's no captchas at all. After that, you can just set up your accounts and 
voila. You have an all in one easy to use IM client, and it also works 
awesomely with El Capitan.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 6:42 AM, Singing Sparrow  wrote:
> 
> how good is trillian? and how hard is it to set up?
> 
> On 10/4/2015 3:07 AM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote:
>> If you're wanting to connect to Facebook, short answer is neither. Adium no 
>> longer supports Facebook, and according to a friend of mine that has used it 
>> for years, they no longer support Facebook through the Jabber protocol. If 
>> you want a client for Facebook, my recommendation is Trillian. Others use 
>> Messages with it, but others can chime in to help you set it up if you want 
>> to go that route since I don't use Messages with Facebook.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 3:00 AM, Singing Sparrow  wrote:
>>> 
>>> what adium version should i try ?
>>> I have 1.5.10 or 1.5.11 or 1.6 or 1.7
>>> Which should i try?
>>> the 1.5.10 is the stable build and the 1.5.11 b2 is a beta the 1.6 and 1.7 
>>> are nightly builds.
>>> Which version should i try?
>>> 
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Re: Bugs in El Capitin.

[Jason White]

E.T.  wrote:
>Which does not mean they are not going to actually read these emails. I
> don't understand why people think that they are ignoring then. 


I expect they will read the reports; I've received a substantive reply in the
past by contacting them via that address.

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Re: Reinstallation.

[Shawn Krasniuk]

I am happy to report that Disk Maker X works again. I just helped out a friend 
do a clean install of El Capitan the other night because her Mac kept freezing 
and crashing on her and we were able to use Disk Maker X successfully. So to 
those of you that don't want to use terminal because you're not comfortable 
with it, Disk Maker X is an option again.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 6:12 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> OK, step the first is to download the thing from the MAS.  Go to the Mac App 
> Store, find the OS you want, and download.  Once you have it, it will open 
> automatically offering to install; quit the Installer.
> 
> The next step is trickier.  If someone has a graphical approach, post it now; 
> otherwise, you’ll be using the command line.  Put your USB key in, and use 
> the createinstallmedia tool.  Instructions are here:
> http://osxdaily.com/2015/09/30/create-os-x-el-capitan-boot-install-drive/
> 
> Now, you will boot that drive, use Disk Utility to erase your internal disk, 
> and perform the installation.  But that’s for later, once you have the drive 
> ready to go.
> 
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Re: Reinstallation.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Shawn,

I dono why, but when I tried using it the other night to do El Capitan, it 
gave me a message that the Apple event timed out, whatever that means.  I 
tried about 4 times, and even used a few different flash drives, just in 
case one of them was either corrupted, or dammaged.  Yes, they definitely 
were at least 8GB in size.  One was an 8, one was a 32, and one was a 64.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Shawn Krasniuk" 

To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2015 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: Reinstallation.


I am happy to report that Disk Maker X works again. I just helped out a 
friend do a clean install of El Capitan the other night because her Mac kept 
freezing and crashing on her and we were able to use Disk Maker X 
successfully. So to those of you that don't want to use terminal because 
you're not comfortable with it, Disk Maker X is an option again.


Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com


On Oct 4, 2015, at 6:12 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:

OK, step the first is to download the thing from the MAS.  Go to the Mac 
App Store, find the OS you want, and download.  Once you have it, it will 
open automatically offering to install; quit the Installer.


The next step is trickier.  If someone has a graphical approach, post it 
now; otherwise, you’ll be using the command line.  Put your USB key in, 
and use the createinstallmedia tool.  Instructions are here:

http://osxdaily.com/2015/09/30/create-os-x-el-capitan-boot-install-drive/

Now, you will boot that drive, use Disk Utility to erase your internal 
disk, and perform the installation.  But that’s for later, once you have 
the drive ready to go.


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Curious if device specific as safari in El Capitan is unusable on many sites

[Brian Fischler]

After using El Capitan for a few days and having this issue I am thinking about 
rolling back. I am curious if others are having this issue when they go to 
websites with a lot of links that VO constantly crashes and resets itself over 
and over making the website basically unusable since VO will not navigate. To 
do this go to a website like Facebook with a lot of links and pull up the web 
item rotor and type in a few characters then VO space bar to go to that part of 
the page and VO crashes cycling on and off. I also noticed this on this page 
here http://www.fantasypros.com/nhl/rankings/overall.php and have gotten fed up 
with VO constantly crashing. I use the screen curtain so I know it is crashing 
as the screen curtain turns off and then VO says Welcome to VO. If this is not 
a device specific bug then Apple once again really dropped the ball on a shitty 
release with VO. Hopefully I am the only one dealing with this issue and maybe 
a clean install will fix. Thanks,

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Re: Curious if device specific as safari in El Capitan is unusable on many sites

[ROBERT CARTER]

Hi,

Also using El Capitan, I had no difficulty accessing the hockey site for which 
you provided a link.

Robert Carter


> On Oct 4, 2015, at 4:56 PM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
> 
> After using El Capitan for a few days and having this issue I am thinking 
> about rolling back. I am curious if others are having this issue when they go 
> to websites with a lot of links that VO constantly crashes and resets itself 
> over and over making the website basically unusable since VO will not 
> navigate. To do this go to a website like Facebook with a lot of links and 
> pull up the web item rotor and type in a few characters then VO space bar to 
> go to that part of the page and VO crashes cycling on and off. I also noticed 
> this on this page here http://www.fantasypros.com/nhl/rankings/overall.php 
> and have gotten fed up with VO constantly crashing. I use the screen curtain 
> so I know it is crashing as the screen curtain turns off and then VO says 
> Welcome to VO. If this is not a device specific bug then Apple once again 
> really dropped the ball on a shitty release with VO. Hopefully I am the only 
> one dealing with this issue and maybe a clean install will fix. Thanks,
> 
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Re: Curious if device specific as safari in El Capitan is unusable on many sites

[John Panarese]

  I am not having any issues with these sites either. Maybe, try resetting 
Safari preferences or deleting your Safari .PLIST file from your user library, 
~library/preferences folder.

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 6:18 PM, ROBERT CARTER  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Also using El Capitan, I had no difficulty accessing the hockey site for 
> which you provided a link.
> 
> Robert Carter
> 
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 4:56 PM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
>> 
>> After using El Capitan for a few days and having this issue I am thinking 
>> about rolling back. I am curious if others are having this issue when they 
>> go to websites with a lot of links that VO constantly crashes and resets 
>> itself over and over making the website basically unusable since VO will not 
>> navigate. To do this go to a website like Facebook with a lot of links and 
>> pull up the web item rotor and type in a few characters then VO space bar to 
>> go to that part of the page and VO crashes cycling on and off. I also 
>> noticed this on this page here 
>> http://www.fantasypros.com/nhl/rankings/overall.php and have gotten fed up 
>> with VO constantly crashing. I use the screen curtain so I know it is 
>> crashing as the screen curtain turns off and then VO says Welcome to VO. If 
>> this is not a device specific bug then Apple once again really dropped the 
>> ball on a shitty release with VO. Hopefully I am the only one dealing with 
>> this issue and maybe a clean install will fix. Thanks,
>> 
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Re: Curious if device specific as safari in El Capitan is unusable on many sites

[Alex Hall]

For what it's worth, I went to the site in the original post, pulled up the web 
rotor, and chose a link at random. I pressed enter, and was taken to the link, 
after which the site, and VO, continued working normally. I just did the same 
thing on Facebook, and had no problems either. I'm on a base model Macbook Air 
from 2012, so it's not the most powerful machine in the world. :)
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 18:21, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>  I am not having any issues with these sites either. Maybe, try resetting 
> Safari preferences or deleting your Safari .PLIST file from your user 
> library, ~library/preferences folder.
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 6:18 PM, ROBERT CARTER  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Also using El Capitan, I had no difficulty accessing the hockey site for 
>> which you provided a link.
>> 
>> Robert Carter
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 4:56 PM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
>>> 
>>> After using El Capitan for a few days and having this issue I am thinking 
>>> about rolling back. I am curious if others are having this issue when they 
>>> go to websites with a lot of links that VO constantly crashes and resets 
>>> itself over and over making the website basically unusable since VO will 
>>> not navigate. To do this go to a website like Facebook with a lot of links 
>>> and pull up the web item rotor and type in a few characters then VO space 
>>> bar to go to that part of the page and VO crashes cycling on and off. I 
>>> also noticed this on this page here 
>>> http://www.fantasypros.com/nhl/rankings/overall.php and have gotten fed up 
>>> with VO constantly crashing. I use the screen curtain so I know it is 
>>> crashing as the screen curtain turns off and then VO says Welcome to VO. If 
>>> this is not a device specific bug then Apple once again really dropped the 
>>> ball on a shitty release with VO. Hopefully I am the only one dealing with 
>>> this issue and maybe a clean install will fix. Thanks,
>>> 
>>> -- 
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Re: Apple Watch question re viewing activity info

[Donna Goodin]

Hey, that's cool! Clearly I need to start paying more attention to the crown 
then I do. Thanks, Daniel.
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 1:10 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dona,
> 
> If you turn the pro it will scroll the screen, enabling you to see that info. 
> I just tried it and it works perfectly in watchOS 2.0.
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 12:43 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> So do you still get the breakdown on the front page?  I used to be able to 
>> see calories burned, number of active minutes, and number of steps all by 
>> doing a double tap on the home screen.  Now more often than not, I do not 
>> get that information on the first page.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 11:02 AM, John Panarese  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If I double tap on the activity, I still get a screen that allows me to 
>>> review the activity. You might have to go to the page chooser or change the 
>>> page with a two finger swipe left or right, to see specific details for 
>>> each category, but it still works here.
>>> 
 On Oct 4, 2015, at 10:56 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 I am using the modular watch face on my Apple Watch, and have activity set 
 to one of the complications on the screen.  Prior to updating to 2.0, if I 
 tapped on the activity complication, I saw a page that displayed a bunch 
 of info: active minutes, calories burned, steps, miles, etc.  since 2.0, I 
 am not able to bring that page up consistently.  Often I get just the 
 abbreviated page, with the moving, exercising, standing info and then the 
 page scrollbar. At this point I'm perplexed as to whether this is a bug, 
 or whether it has something to do with force touch.  I seem to have to try 
 to open the page about three times before I finally get it to show.  
 Sometimes it seems like holding my finger down helps, but other times that 
 seems to just bring up the watch face selection page.  Has anyone else 
 noticed this?  Has anyone figured out how to view the activity page 
 consistently?
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[E.T.]

Sabahattin and others,
   The topic of braille support in OS X comes up occasionally but I 
have not seen a list of the shortcomings. Is there one? I have used my 
braille display mostly with iOS but am interested in putting it to work 
under OS X. Then I can add my voice to the clamor and let Apple 
Accessibility know.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 10/2/2015 5:23 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote:

Nah Anders, I feel your pain completely.  Even iOS has acceptable braille 
support, so it’s not as if they couldn’t port that over to OS X.  Clearly 
nobody at Apple uses or cares about braille.  Probably because it doesn’t make 
them any money from hardware sales.  Kinda tragic.

Hey Scott, you can stop trolling now.  The grand old US of A isn’t exactly 
known for its braille literacy or deep regard for environmentalism either. :)



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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Alex Hall]

Indeed, I'd love to have more specifics about braille under OS X to pass along 
to the rest of the AppleVis team and to keep an eye on in future updates. I 
don't have a display I can test with right now, unfortunately.
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 18:30, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> Sabahattin and others,
>   The topic of braille support in OS X comes up occasionally but I have not 
> seen a list of the shortcomings. Is there one? I have used my braille display 
> mostly with iOS but am interested in putting it to work under OS X. Then I 
> can add my voice to the clamor and let Apple Accessibility know.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 10/2/2015 5:23 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote:
>> Nah Anders, I feel your pain completely.  Even iOS has acceptable braille 
>> support, so it’s not as if they couldn’t port that over to OS X.  Clearly 
>> nobody at Apple uses or cares about braille.  Probably because it doesn’t 
>> make them any money from hardware sales.  Kinda tragic.
>> 
>> Hey Scott, you can stop trolling now.  The grand old US of A isn’t exactly 
>> known for its braille literacy or deep regard for environmentalism either. :)
>> 
> 
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Re: Curious if device specific as safari in El Capitan is unusable on many sites

[Brian Fischler]

Hey all, Thanks so much for the feedback and great to hear that it is device 
specific. Guess I will try what John suggested and if that does not work ugh 
clean install here we come.
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 6:28 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> For what it's worth, I went to the site in the original post, pulled up the 
> web rotor, and chose a link at random. I pressed enter, and was taken to the 
> link, after which the site, and VO, continued working normally. I just did 
> the same thing on Facebook, and had no problems either. I'm on a base model 
> Macbook Air from 2012, so it's not the most powerful machine in the world. :)
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 18:21, John Panarese  wrote:
>> 
>> I am not having any issues with these sites either. Maybe, try resetting 
>> Safari preferences or deleting your Safari .PLIST file from your user 
>> library, ~library/preferences folder.
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 6:18 PM, ROBERT CARTER  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Also using El Capitan, I had no difficulty accessing the hockey site for 
>>> which you provided a link.
>>> 
>>> Robert Carter
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 4, 2015, at 4:56 PM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
 
 After using El Capitan for a few days and having this issue I am thinking 
 about rolling back. I am curious if others are having this issue when they 
 go to websites with a lot of links that VO constantly crashes and resets 
 itself over and over making the website basically unusable since VO will 
 not navigate. To do this go to a website like Facebook with a lot of links 
 and pull up the web item rotor and type in a few characters then VO space 
 bar to go to that part of the page and VO crashes cycling on and off. I 
 also noticed this on this page here 
 http://www.fantasypros.com/nhl/rankings/overall.php and have gotten fed up 
 with VO constantly crashing. I use the screen curtain so I know it is 
 crashing as the screen curtain turns off and then VO says Welcome to VO. 
 If this is not a device specific bug then Apple once again really dropped 
 the ball on a shitty release with VO. Hopefully I am the only one dealing 
 with this issue and maybe a clean install will fix. Thanks,
 
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Re: Apple Watch question re viewing activity info

[Daniel Miller]

You’re welcome. The crown is definitely more useful for VoiceOver users on 
watchOS 2 than it was in 1.0.

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 5:30 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hey, that's cool! Clearly I need to start paying more attention to the crown 
> then I do. Thanks, Daniel.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 1:10 PM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Dona,
>> 
>> If you turn the pro it will scroll the screen, enabling you to see that 
>> info. I just tried it and it works perfectly in watchOS 2.0.
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 12:43 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So do you still get the breakdown on the front page?  I used to be able to 
>>> see calories burned, number of active minutes, and number of steps all by 
>>> doing a double tap on the home screen.  Now more often than not, I do not 
>>> get that information on the first page.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
 On Oct 4, 2015, at 11:02 AM, John Panarese  wrote:
 
 If I double tap on the activity, I still get a screen that allows me to 
 review the activity. You might have to go to the page chooser or change 
 the page with a two finger swipe left or right, to see specific details 
 for each category, but it still works here.
 
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 10:56 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I am using the modular watch face on my Apple Watch, and have activity 
> set to one of the complications on the screen.  Prior to updating to 2.0, 
> if I tapped on the activity complication, I saw a page that displayed a 
> bunch of info: active minutes, calories burned, steps, miles, etc.  since 
> 2.0, I am not able to bring that page up consistently.  Often I get just 
> the abbreviated page, with the moving, exercising, standing info and then 
> the page scrollbar. At this point I'm perplexed as to whether this is a 
> bug, or whether it has something to do with force touch.  I seem to have 
> to try to open the page about three times before I finally get it to 
> show.  Sometimes it seems like holding my finger down helps, but other 
> times that seems to just bring up the watch face selection page.  Has 
> anyone else noticed this?  Has anyone figured out how to view the 
> activity page consistently?
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Curious if device specific as safari in El Capitan is unusable on many sites

[Ray Foret Jr]

Here's another which does not work for me:

ecommerce.nfb.org
you will get a certificate dialog but will not be able to go past it.


Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in!!!

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 4:56 PM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
> 
> After using El Capitan for a few days and having this issue I am thinking 
> about rolling back. I am curious if others are having this issue when they go 
> to websites with a lot of links that VO constantly crashes and resets itself 
> over and over making the website basically unusable since VO will not 
> navigate. To do this go to a website like Facebook with a lot of links and 
> pull up the web item rotor and type in a few characters then VO space bar to 
> go to that part of the page and VO crashes cycling on and off. I also noticed 
> this on this page here http://www.fantasypros.com/nhl/rankings/overall.php 
> and have gotten fed up with VO constantly crashing. I use the screen curtain 
> so I know it is crashing as the screen curtain turns off and then VO says 
> Welcome to VO. If this is not a device specific bug then Apple once again 
> really dropped the ball on a shitty release with VO. Hopefully I am the only 
> one dealing with this issue and maybe a clean install will fix. Thanks,
> 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Blee Blat]

I have  a display but I may be hitting different bugs than others so I wouldn't 
mind a list either. I have noticed that cursor routing is useless because there 
is no separate braille cursor or braille doesn't follow the system cursor it 
just moves the voiceover cursor which isn't what should happen. There's no way 
to tell if text is selected easily since dots 7 and 8 are used for the 
voiceover cursor as well as the highlighting of text. I don't understand what 
to do with these silly status cells at all. I turn them off on OS X and iOS 
because I don't understand how their information is at all useful especially on 
a small 18-cell display.
 Braille input is also equally useless on iOS and OS X because I braille too 
quickly and the driver appears to hang. I should also point out that I 
frequently work with autocorrect and dictation turned off because I still get 
input lag typing on qwerty as well but the braille translator makes input lag a 
lot.
I'd sell this braille display to someone if I could find one for a reasonable 
price that I could put under the laptop or keyborad since I don't like the 
braille input function at all because it doesn't work at all in a useful way.
 Also USB serial support is broken in OS X so that you cannot use your braillle 
display in USB mode  at least not with Refreshabraille even though the 
documentation claims it works. Bluetooth frequently drops on both iOS and OS X  
especially after sleep / wake so often the braille display will not connect at 
all and I have to revert to speech. Braille also doesn't work until after the 
user is logged in, nor does it work in recovery mode. There is no braille for 
emoji either.
 Some of this is probably user error because OS X and iOS  probably handle 
braille differently than BRLTTY which is what I used to use. I moved to OS X to 
avoid Windows because I generally prefer UNIX shells and things and I thought 
maybe Apple had better accessibility when I played with it and in general I'm 
not unhappy with that decision. But it seems to me that the computer industry 
in general is releasing poorly written software for all users and so I'm 
thinking every OS is badly written and buggy so I'm giving Apple a pass on that 
one. It seems people want things in this world that give the delusion of 
working but don't actually work and that is ok if that's what people want. So I 
expect it to be horribly broken because that's what sells and I'm surprised 
that in general Apple tends to be less horribly broken than other companies but 
I am sure it's a design decision since the focus seems to be on data mining and 
tracking and accessibility just doesn't help them collect data or advertise so 
it means nothing. And braille is the bottom of the stack when it comes to that.
 I wrote Apple Accessibility telling them that I've got a lot of time and I 
could learn their architecture and help with braille testing but I got a form 
letter saying that they'd look into the bugs I reported so I left it at that. 
But I would like to know how to get the most out of braille on either the phone 
or the mac because I prefer not to use speech  since it gets in the way of my 
creative process,  especially thanks to Apple Music  and several meditation 
apps being available   on all devices. Don't take any of this as criticism or 
negativity I'm willing to help but I don't know what's constructive.  I'm also 
betting that maybe I haven't explored something or don't fully understand some 
features so I'd be willing to take this off list  for extended conversation if 
someone wants  we could talk about how to get this stuff constructively fixed. 
I think Apple is trying to do the right thing I'm just not sure how we can help 
them.
 Yes it's a small user group but it might get larger very quickly if somehow we 
had easily accessible built-in working braille support to point people at. 
Sorry if this is a bit long I have only given the most  severe bugs I've 
noticed. There's probably more I'm sure but I'm assuming the ones I encountered 
were user error mostly but someone make a list of bugs and we can hack this 
out. Thanks for reading and have fun times. I'll go away now unless there's a 
reply.

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My profuse apology to the list.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Hey there guys, it's Chris Gilland.

Listen, I really would like to publicly address on list the way that I acted 
this morning with a few of my messages.

Guys, I really really messed up and was quite childish in how I reacted.  I was 
having major issues with my mac as you all know with installing El Capitan.  I 
had literally been up all night trying to repair the system, and was exhausted, 
and not in a good mood at all.  Plus, there has been some family issues going 
on as well which I'm not gonna get into, but the point is, firstly, I wasn't 
thinking in my right state of mind.  Secondly, and by far more importantly, I 
over-reacted big time.  I let the anger get the best of me, which often times I 
tend to do.  My language used on the list was entirely unacceptable, not to 
mention very, and I do mean very! distasteful.  I take 100% responsibility for 
any concequences that may come due to this.  Folks, I really screwed up, and 
I'm writing because I genuinely from the bottom of my heart would like to 
apologize.  I know better than to talk that way on a public list.  Frankly, I'm 
quite ashamed of myself and how I acted.  There was then, and still is now 
absolutely no excuse!  I don't ask for pitty.  I only hope that my apology can 
be accepted, and we can move on.  If not however, then I completely understand. 
 Do know though that I am very sincere with this.  Mark did not force me to 
write this, and neither did Cara.  I'm doing this on my own will, because I'm 
deeply regretful for how I acted.

I can't say any more.  I really truely truely am sorry.

Have a blessed day, guys.

Chris.

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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Scott Granados]

I do agree, I think Apple Braille support should be much better and farther 
along than it is.  As someone proposed, I wonder if there are no braille 
readers on the various development or testing teams.  Hard to believe but what 
other excuse do they have?

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 2:50 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Well maybe you’re right but its very frustrating that braille hasn’t come 
> very far on the mac.
> /A
>> 2 okt. 2015 kl. 14:14 skrev Scott Granados :
>> 
>> If Apple were a european company or especially German company they would 
>> have faked it so the braille support only worked in the government agency’s 
>> office responsible for certifying braille support.  It would have failed in 
>> the real world.  Sort of the same philosophy as the German Auto 
>> manufacturers and pollution control.:)
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Oh dear.
>>> Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at 
>>> all.
>>> If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the braille 
>>> support will be better.
>>> It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
>>> Also for window eyes but its there.
>>> Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense of 
>>> navigating seems not to be able yet.
>>> Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
>>> Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
>>> Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
>>> Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
>>> THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass this 
>>> on to blablabla.
>>> I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
>>> Still optemistic though.
>>> /A 
 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
 
 Hello all,
 I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
 As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 10.11 
 while this is for me and others important.
 
 Some first remarks:
 1. It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t move 
 around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another program and 
 then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is needed here 
 perhaps?
 
 2. I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 are 
 used for capitals and some computer signs.
 When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application has 
 the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I can 
 hear it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
 I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
 position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the selected 
 program should appear on the display while switching from one program to 
 another.
 
 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, 
 edit-fields , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they are 
 fully written in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, aankruisvakje=checkbox, 
 keuzelijst=combobox …
 This should be represented with symbols like { }/{x} [ ] [x] ( )/(x) …
 I subpose that the controls like above, are  presented with this kind of 
 symbols when the interface-language is set on English.
 This is een old question I think but still not changed.
 
 Any comments or reports to apple accessibility are very welcom
 
 Kind regards,
 William Windels
 
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Re: My initial impression of El Capitan curious bugs or device specific

[Scott Granados]

I have one to add to this list,

When in the doc, let’s say I’m on mail and I type s to hit safari, when the 
cursor moves it says mail again and then says safari.  So it duplicates with 
where you are to where you selected.  Very small potatoes as a bug but a little 
annoying.


> On Oct 3, 2015, at 3:09 PM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> Been using El Capitan for a little bit and am curious if some of these might 
> just be me or if other people have noticed them as well. Overall I am 
> impressed with the quickness of El Capitan, as most apps seem to be running 
> very smoothly and quicker than they were in Yosemite. I am running a iMac 
> late 2010, and know some of these may be because the computer is an old man.
> 
> 1. I use keyboard commander to pull up a lot of my apps. Most of the time 
> when I pull up mail VO does not read the current app that has been pulled up 
> but I notice it mostly that VO does not say mail when I use a keyboard 
> commander to pull it up, it just appears. Will have to check to see if I have 
> VO verbosity set to low which I probably do in mail and this could be the 
> cause.
> 
> 2. I have always been a big user of web spots as for a lot of sites I find it 
> to be the quickest way to get to where I want to go. I was excited to hear 
> about window spots and assumed these would work the same way as web spots. I 
> am disappointed that VO command right and left bracket does not cycle you 
> through the window spots you create like web spots do. 
> I have not found a keyboard shortcut to cycle quickly through window spots, 
> and the arrow keys do not seem to jump you from one window spot to the next. 
> You seem to have to pull up the Window Spots rotor to navigate. Hopefully 
> this will be fixed in future releases.
> 
> 3 Links not being read in safari. This has got to be the biggest bug I have 
> encountered as I have a website that has a ton of links that I use QuickNav 
> to get through, and 80% of the time hitting the down arrow to the next link 
> lands you on the link but VO does not read it. I have to go back to the 
> previous link with the arrows then down arrow again and then the link is 
> read. Quite frustrating, and hoping to hear this might be my ancient computer 
> and not a universal bug.
> 
> 4 In mail drag and drop seems to work much better when putting a mailbox in 
> to favorites, but does not work at all when looking to remove a mailbox from 
> favorites. Have yet to figure out a way to remove a mailbox from favorites.
> 5 I am still getting a lot of busy busy messages in safari finder and mail 
> but this could be my ancient 2010, and I have not done a clean install which 
> if I decide to do am hoping will fix this. 
> 
> Just some initial thoughts, and overall if you are comfortable with using 
> Yosemite and do not mind a few minor bugs I would say it is safe to update.. 
> . 
> 
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Re: My initial impression of El Capitan curious bugs or device specific

[Gerard Doody]

Hi all, 
I use the default apple mail to work with my email.  I have noticed that when I 
interact with the messages column it drops me right onto the menu buttons, 
which it did not do before.  
I just updated to el capitan and it was a long ordeal.  I am using a macbook 
pro 2011 vintage.  
However, the bright spot is that I am using a logitech bluetooth keyboard and 
now, all my key strokes are spoken with vo.  That’s been broken for a while so 
I am glad to hear all my typing voices back again.  
I have not yet tried safari but so far, I am hopeful.  
Jerry Doody
jerrydood...@gmail..com
On Oct 3, 2015, at 8:40 pm, Scott Granados  wrote:

I have one to add to this list,

When in the doc, let’s say I’m on mail and I type s to hit safari, when the 
cursor moves it says mail again and then says safari.  So it duplicates with 
where you are to where you selected.  Very small potatoes as a bug but a little 
annoying.


> On Oct 3, 2015, at 3:09 PM, Brian Fischler  wrote:
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> Been using El Capitan for a little bit and am curious if some of these might 
> just be me or if other people have noticed them as well. Overall I am 
> impressed with the quickness of El Capitan, as most apps seem to be running 
> very smoothly and quicker than they were in Yosemite. I am running a iMac 
> late 2010, and know some of these may be because the computer is an old man.
> 
> 1. I use keyboard commander to pull up a lot of my apps. Most of the time 
> when I pull up mail VO does not read the current app that has been pulled up 
> but I notice it mostly that VO does not say mail when I use a keyboard 
> commander to pull it up, it just appears. Will have to check to see if I have 
> VO verbosity set to low which I probably do in mail and this could be the 
> cause.
> 
> 2. I have always been a big user of web spots as for a lot of sites I find it 
> to be the quickest way to get to where I want to go. I was excited to hear 
> about window spots and assumed these would work the same way as web spots. I 
> am disappointed that VO command right and left bracket does not cycle you 
> through the window spots you create like web spots do. 
> I have not found a keyboard shortcut to cycle quickly through window spots, 
> and the arrow keys do not seem to jump you from one window spot to the next. 
> You seem to have to pull up the Window Spots rotor to navigate. Hopefully 
> this will be fixed in future releases.
> 
> 3 Links not being read in safari. This has got to be the biggest bug I have 
> encountered as I have a website that has a ton of links that I use QuickNav 
> to get through, and 80% of the time hitting the down arrow to the next link 
> lands you on the link but VO does not read it. I have to go back to the 
> previous link with the arrows then down arrow again and then the link is 
> read. Quite frustrating, and hoping to hear this might be my ancient computer 
> and not a universal bug.
> 
> 4 In mail drag and drop seems to work much better when putting a mailbox in 
> to favorites, but does not work at all when looking to remove a mailbox from 
> favorites. Have yet to figure out a way to remove a mailbox from favorites.
> 5 I am still getting a lot of busy busy messages in safari finder and mail 
> but this could be my ancient 2010, and I have not done a clean install which 
> if I decide to do am hoping will fix this. 
> 
> Just some initial thoughts, and overall if you are comfortable with using 
> Yosemite and do not mind a few minor bugs I would say it is safe to update.. 
> . 
> 
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Re: My profuse apology to the list.

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Hey Chris. Just so you know, in your emails, all I see with my very limited 
vision is black. Usually I can see enough to distinguish if there's any text in 
the email, but there wasn't. I can see the text but can't read it which is why 
I use Voiceover. Anyway there was no text at all, just black so I just wanted 
to get that out to you.
My second thought is personally, I think you don't have anything to apologize 
for. You were scared, and that's understandable. If that ever happened to me 
one day, I'd probably do the same. And it's not like you said the worst swear 
in the world, I don't think I have to say it because you know what I mean, but 
yeah, we're all human here, and fear is a natural feeling.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:29 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Hey there guys, it's Chris Gilland.
>  
> Listen, I really would like to publicly address on list the way that I acted 
> this morning with a few of my messages.
>  
> Guys, I really really messed up and was quite childish in how I reacted.  I 
> was having major issues with my mac as you all know with installing El 
> Capitan.  I had literally been up all night trying to repair the system, and 
> was exhausted, and not in a good mood at all.  Plus, there has been some 
> family issues going on as well which I'm not gonna get into, but the point 
> is, firstly, I wasn't thinking in my right state of mind.  Secondly, and by 
> far more importantly, I over-reacted big time.  I let the anger get the best 
> of me, which often times I tend to do.  My language used on the list was 
> entirely unacceptable, not to mention very, and I do mean very! distasteful.  
> I take 100% responsibility for any concequences that may come due to this.  
> Folks, I really screwed up, and I'm writing because I genuinely from the 
> bottom of my heart would like to apologize.  I know better than to talk that 
> way on a public list.  Frankly, I'm quite ashamed of myself and how I acted.  
> There was then, and still is now absolutely no excuse!  I don't ask for 
> pitty.  I only hope that my apology can be accepted, and we can move on.  If 
> not however, then I completely understand.  Do know though that I am very 
> sincere with this.  Mark did not force me to write this, and neither did 
> Cara.  I'm doing this on my own will, because I'm deeply regretful for how I 
> acted.
>  
> I can't say any more.  I really truely truely am sorry.
>  
> Have a blessed day, guys.
>  
> Chris.
>  
> 
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Re: My profuse apology to the list.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Shawn,

I know what the problem was with my e-mail.  It's been fixed.  Does this look 
better?

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Shawn Krasniuk 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2015 9:09 PM
  Subject: Re: My profuse apology to the list.


  Hey Chris. Just so you know, in your emails, all I see with my very limited 
vision is black. Usually I can see enough to distinguish if there's any text in 
the email, but there wasn't. I can see the text but can't read it which is why 
I use Voiceover. Anyway there was no text at all, just black so I just wanted 
to get that out to you.
  My second thought is personally, I think you don't have anything to apologize 
for. You were scared, and that's understandable. If that ever happened to me 
one day, I'd probably do the same. And it's not like you said the worst swear 
in the world, I don't think I have to say it because you know what I mean, but 
yeah, we're all human here, and fear is a natural feeling.


  Shawn
  Sent From My White MacBook
  Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
  Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
  Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
  Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com


On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:29 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Hey there guys, it's Chris Gilland.

Listen, I really would like to publicly address on list the way that I 
acted this morning with a few of my messages.

Guys, I really really messed up and was quite childish in how I reacted.  I 
was having major issues with my mac as you all know with installing El Capitan. 
 I had literally been up all night trying to repair the system, and was 
exhausted, and not in a good mood at all.  Plus, there has been some family 
issues going on as well which I'm not gonna get into, but the point is, 
firstly, I wasn't thinking in my right state of mind.  Secondly, and by far 
more importantly, I over-reacted big time.  I let the anger get the best of me, 
which often times I tend to do.  My language used on the list was entirely 
unacceptable, not to mention very, and I do mean very! distasteful.  I take 
100% responsibility for any concequences that may come due to this.  Folks, I 
really screwed up, and I'm writing because I genuinely from the bottom of my 
heart would like to apologize.  I know better than to talk that way on a public 
list.  Frankly, I'm quite ashamed of myself and how I acted.  There was then, 
and still is now absolutely no excuse!  I don't ask for pitty.  I only hope 
that my apology can be accepted, and we can move on.  If not however, then I 
completely understand.  Do know though that I am very sincere with this.  Mark 
did not force me to write this, and neither did Cara.  I'm doing this on my own 
will, because I'm deeply regretful for how I acted.

I can't say any more.  I really truely truely am sorry.

Have a blessed day, guys.

Chris.



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Re: My profuse apology to the list.

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Yes. Much better.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:25 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Shawn,
>  
> I know what the problem was with my e-mail.  It's been fixed.  Does this look 
> better?
>  
> Chris.
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: Shawn Krasniuk
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2015 9:09 PM
> Subject: Re: My profuse apology to the list.
> 
> Hey Chris. Just so you know, in your emails, all I see with my very limited 
> vision is black. Usually I can see enough to distinguish if there's any text 
> in the email, but there wasn't. I can see the text but can't read it which is 
> why I use Voiceover. Anyway there was no text at all, justblack so I just 
> wanted to get that out to you.
> My second thought is personally, I think you don't have anything to apologize 
> for. You were scared, and that's understandable. If that ever happened to me 
> one day, I'd probably do the same. And it's not like you said the worst swear 
> in the world, I don't think I have to say it because you know what I mean, 
> but yeah, we're all human here, and fear is a natural feeling.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:29 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey there guys, it's Chris Gilland.
>>  
>> Listen, I really would like to publicly address on list the way that I acted 
>> this morning with a few of my messages.
>>  
>> Guys, I really really messed up and was quite childish in how I reacted.  I 
>> was having major issues with my mac as you all know with installing El 
>> Capitan.  I had literally been up all night trying to repair the system, and 
>> was exhausted, and not in a good mood at all.  Plus, there has been some 
>> family issues going on as well which I'm not gonna get into, but the point 
>> is, firstly, I wasn't thinking in my right state of mind.  Secondly, and by 
>> far more importantly, I over-reacted big time.  I let the anger get the best 
>> of me, which often times I tend to do.  My language used on the list was 
>> entirely unacceptable, not to mention very, and I do mean very! distasteful. 
>>  I take 100% responsibility for any concequences that may come due to this.  
>> Folks, I really screwed up, and I'm writing because I genuinely from the 
>> bottom of my heart would like to apologize.  I know better than to talk that 
>> way on a public list.  Frankly, I'm quite ashamed of myself and how I acted. 
>>  There was then, and still is now absolutely no excuse!  I don't ask for 
>> pitty.  I only hope that my apology can be accepted, and we can move on.  If 
>> not however, then I completely understand.  Do know though that I am very 
>> sincere with this.  Mark did not force me to write this, and neither did 
>> Cara.  I'm doing this on my own will, because I'm deeply regretful for how I 
>> acted.
>>  
>> I can't say any more.  I really truely truely am sorry.
>>  
>> Have a blessed day, guys.
>>  
>> Chris.
>>  
>> 
>> -- 
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: My profuse apology to the list.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

That would be Windows for ya.  I tried setting my display to high contrast.  
Even though it's white text on a black background, Outlook insists that it 
needs to send the message black on black no matter what setting I change.  Just 
another reason I love my mac over an unstable PC.  LOL!  If you ever for any 
weird reason observe it happening again, I know you and Mark both have some 
vision.  Please, one of you two let me know, as on my end locally it renders 
correctly, but apparently not on the receiving end.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
  From: Shawn Krasniuk 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2015 9:39 PM
  Subject: Re: My profuse apology to the list.


  Yes. Much better.

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:25 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
wrote:


Shawn,

I know what the problem was with my e-mail.  It's been fixed.  Does this 
look better?

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Shawn Krasniuk 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2015 9:09 PM
  Subject: Re: My profuse apology to the list.


  Hey Chris. Just so you know, in your emails, all I see with my very 
limited vision is black. Usually I can see enough to distinguish if there's any 
text in the email, but there wasn't. I can see the text but can't read it which 
is why I use Voiceover. Anyway there was no text at all, just black so I just 
wanted to get that out to you. 
  My second thought is personally, I think you don't have anything to 
apologize for. You were scared, and that's understandable. If that ever 
happened to me one day, I'd probably do the same. And it's not like you said 
the worst swear in the world, I don't think I have to say it because you know 
what I mean, but yeah, we're all human here, and fear is a natural feeling.


  Shawn
  Sent From My White MacBook
  Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
  Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
  Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
  Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com


On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:29 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Hey there guys, it's Chris Gilland.

Listen, I really would like to publicly address on list the way that I 
acted this morning with a few of my messages.

Guys, I really really messed up and was quite childish in how I 
reacted.  I was having major issues with my mac as you all know with installing 
El Capitan.  I had literally been up all night trying to repair the system, and 
was exhausted, and not in a good mood at all.  Plus, there has been some family 
issues going on as well which I'm not gonna get into, but the point is, 
firstly, I wasn't thinking in my right state of mind.  Secondly, and by far 
more importantly, I over-reacted big time.  I let the anger get the best of me, 
which often times I tend to do.  My language used on the list was entirely 
unacceptable, not to mention very, and I do mean very! distasteful.  I take 
100% responsibility for any concequences that may come due to this.  Folks, I 
really screwed up, and I'm writing because I genuinely from the bottom of my 
heart would like to apologize.  I know better than to talk that way on a public 
list.  Frankly, I'm quite ashamed of myself and how I acted.  There was then, 
and still is now absolutely no excuse!  I don't ask for pitty.  I only hope 
that my apology can be accepted, and we can move on.  If not however, then I 
completely understand.  Do know though that I am very sincere with this.  Mark 
did not force me to write this, and neither did Cara.  I'm doing this on my own 
will, because I'm deeply regretful for how I acted.

I can't say any more.  I really truely truely am sorry.

Have a blessed day, guys.

Chris.



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cannot restart into windows

[Juan Hernandez]

Hi All,

 

I just upgraded my macbook pro from os x 10.10 to 10.11.  I now cannot
restart from the system prefs --> startup drive - bootcamp selector.  When I
interact with the radio button controls of bootcamp or the mac os x drive,
they are dimmed.  Has anyone seen this issue?  If yes can this be fixed? Or
must I go into windows via the pressing option key at startup method?

 

Best,

 

Juan

 

 

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Re: Bugs in El Capitin.

[David Chittenden]

Not only do they read the reports, each report from a different individual 
communicates the importance of the particular difficulty. Yes, they do keep 
track.

Also, having worked in the industry, I know that there are often factors of 
which we are not aware, that influence what may be done. Often, some 
difficulties must be accepted because the alternatives would be worse, either 
in the area in question, or in other, seemingly unrelated areas.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 5 Oct 2015, at 09:16, Jason White  wrote:
> 
> E.T.  wrote:
>>   Which does not mean they are not going to actually read these emails. I
>> don't understand why people think that they are ignoring then. 
> 
> 
> I expect they will read the reports; I've received a substantive reply in the
> past by contacting them via that address.
> 
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Re: cannot restart into windows

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Have you tried selecting the startup drive in System Preferences and not in 
Bootcamp preferences?

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:50 PM, Juan Hernandez  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
>  
> I just upgraded my macbook pro from os x 10.10 to 10.11.  I now cannot 
> restart from the system prefs àstartup drive – bootcamp selector.  When I 
> interact with the radio button controls of bootcamp or the mac os x drive, 
> they are dimmed.  Has anyone seen this issue?  If yes can this be fixed? Or 
> must I go into windows via the pressing option key at startup method?
>  
> Best,
>  
> Juan
>  
>  
> 
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Updating a brailliant display if you don't have a PC

[Mary Otten]

The subject line says it all. Is this possible? Must you have a PC in order to 
update this display?
Mary

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: cannot restart into windows

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi!

Have you actually made sure to unlock your system preferences by choosing the 
"Click lock to make changes" button?

If not, that usually causes them to be dimmed. First thing that came to mind.

Nicolai
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 9:56 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Have you tried selecting the startup drive in System Preferences and not in 
> Bootcamp preferences?
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:50 PM, Juan Hernandez > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>>  
>> I just upgraded my macbook pro from os x 10.10 to 10.11.  I now cannot 
>> restart from the system prefs àstartup drive – bootcamp selector.  When I 
>> interact with the radio button controls of bootcamp or the mac os x drive, 
>> they are dimmed.  Has anyone seen this issue?  If yes can this be fixed? Or 
>> must I go into windows via the pressing option key at startup method?
>>  
>> Best,
>>  
>> Juan
>>  
>>  
>> 
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>> .
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>> .
> 
> 
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RE: cannot restart into windows

[Juan Hernandez]

That is where I am at.  System preferences -> startup drive -> select startup 
drive.

 

I am going to try the lock/unlock thing.  I didn’t see that.  Is that a new os 
x 10.11 feature?  That wasn’t there on 10.10 before.

 

Best,

 

 

 

 

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2015 6:56 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: cannot restart into windows

 

Have you tried selecting the startup drive in System Preferences and not in 
Bootcamp preferences?

 

Shawn

Sent From My White MacBook

Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk

Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs

Skype username: bbstheblindrapper

Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com  

 

On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:50 PM, Juan Hernandez mailto:juanhernande...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Hi All,

 

I just upgraded my macbook pro from os x 10.10 to 10.11.  I now cannot restart 
from the system prefs -->startup drive – bootcamp selector.  When I interact 
with the radio button controls of bootcamp or the mac os x drive, they are 
dimmed.  Has anyone seen this issue?  If yes can this be fixed? Or must I go 
into windows via the pressing option key at startup method?

 

Best,

 

Juan

 

 

 

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 .
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Re: cannot restart into windows

[Nicolai Svendsen]

Hi

Sometimes, you're required to unlock with a password to change preferences. 
It's always been there, but I can't remember if it used to be required in that 
category previously.

Nicolai
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 10:09 PM, Juan Hernandez  wrote:
> 
> That is where I am at.  System preferences -> startup drive -> select startup 
> drive.
>  
> I am going to try the lock/unlock thing.  I didn’t see that.  Is that a new 
> os x 10.11 feature?  That wasn’t there on 10.10 before.
>  
> Best,
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
> Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2015 6:56 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: cannot restart into windows
>  
> Have you tried selecting the startup drive in System Preferences and not in 
> Bootcamp preferences?
>  
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>  
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:50 PM, Juan Hernandez > > wrote:
>>  
>> Hi All,
>>  
>> I just upgraded my macbook pro from os x 10.10 to 10.11.  I now cannot 
>> restart from the system prefs àstartup drive – bootcamp selector.  When I 
>> interact with the radio button controls of bootcamp or the mac os x drive, 
>> they are dimmed.  Has anyone seen this issue?  If yes can this be fixed? Or 
>> must I go into windows via the pressing option key at startup method?
>>  
>> Best,
>>  
>> Juan
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> -- 
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>  
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Re: El Capitan Is Here

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Hi Alex. I just read your blog post about the bugs in El Capitan and I found 
your post about the character counter bug in the Twitter share menu. I don't 
know if this really is a bug or not but if it is, try interacting with that 
character counter. For me when I interact with it it shows the number of 
characters remaining in my tweet. HTH.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Sep 30, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> Just a note to say that El Capitan has been released. I compiled a bug list 
> for AppleVis which I strongly recommend everyone looks at, as there are some 
> pretty major problems on there. I also wrote a blog, and did a podcast, 
> covering the new features in VoiceOver. Links:
> 
> Bug List:
> http://www.applevis.com/blog/mac-os-x-news/accessibility-bugs-os-x-1011-el-capitan-serious-minor
> 
> New Features Blog:
> http://www.applevis.com/blog/assistive-technology-mac-os-x-news/whats-new-os-x-1011-el-capitan-voiceover-users
> 
> New Features Podcast:
> http://www.applevis.com/podcast/episodes/exploring-some-new-accessibility-features-os-x-1011-el-capitan
> 
> I realized, in reading this email back, that it might come off as a little 
> arrogant. I don't mean it that way, I just wanted to give people a single 
> place to get some coverage about the new OS, and those are the only 
> accessibility-centric sources I know of for now.
> 
> --
> Have a great day,
> Alex Hall
> mehg...@icloud.com
> 
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Making a bulleted list in the newly updated notes app on an eye device

[Mary Otten]

For those of you on more than one list to which this is being sent, I do 
apologize for the cross posting. However, since this newly updated notes app is 
so new, I did want to get the input from all possible people who might actually 
have done this. Is it possible to make a bulleted list in the notes app on your 
iPad? If so how?
Mary

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Updating a brailliant display if you don't have a PC

[Sadam Ahmed]

The short answer is no. 

A PC is required. 

Yours truly, 

Sadam Ahmed 

Sent from my iPhone 

-- 



> On 5 Oct 2015, at 12:57 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> The subject line says it all. Is this possible? Must you have a PC in order 
> to update this display?
> Mary
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: Updating a brailliant display if you don't have a PC

[Sadam Ahmed]

No. 

A PC is required. 

Yours truly, 

Sadam Ahmed 

Sent from my iPhone 

-- 



> On 5 Oct 2015, at 12:57 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> The subject line says it all. Is this possible? Must you have a PC in order 
> to update this display?
> Mary
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: El Capitan Is Here

[Alex Hall]

Thank you, I'd never tried that. I tried looking for hints for everything, 
tabbing, and everything else, but I missed this one. I'll update our bug list 
with this new info.
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 22:44, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi Alex. I just read your blog post about the bugs in El Capitan and I found 
> your post about the character counter bug in the Twitter share menu. I don't 
> know if this really is a bug or not but if it is, try interacting with that 
> character counter. For me when I interact with it it shows the number of 
> characters remaining in my tweet. HTH.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com
> 
>> On Sep 30, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> Just a note to say that El Capitan has been released. I compiled a bug list 
>> for AppleVis which I strongly recommend everyone looks at, as there are some 
>> pretty major problems on there. I also wrote a blog, and did a podcast, 
>> covering the new features in VoiceOver. Links:
>> 
>> Bug List:
>> http://www.applevis.com/blog/mac-os-x-news/accessibility-bugs-os-x-1011-el-capitan-serious-minor
>> 
>> New Features Blog:
>> http://www.applevis.com/blog/assistive-technology-mac-os-x-news/whats-new-os-x-1011-el-capitan-voiceover-users
>> 
>> New Features Podcast:
>> http://www.applevis.com/podcast/episodes/exploring-some-new-accessibility-features-os-x-1011-el-capitan
>> 
>> I realized, in reading this email back, that it might come off as a little 
>> arrogant. I don't mean it that way, I just wanted to give people a single 
>> place to get some coverage about the new OS, and those are the only 
>> accessibility-centric sources I know of for now.
>> 
>> --
>> Have a great day,
>> Alex Hall
>> mehg...@icloud.com
>> 
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Re: Making a bulleted list in the newly updated notes app on an eye device

[David Chittenden]

Yes it is possible. I have done so on my iPhone. I have not yet done so on my 
iPad. On the iPhone, double-tap on the show toolbar and then double-tap on 
create checklist. I suspect the procedure is similar, if not identical, on the 
iPad.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 5 Oct 2015, at 15:46, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> For those of you on more than one list to which this is being sent, I do 
> apologize for the cross posting. However, since this newly updated notes app 
> is so new, I did want to get the input from all possible people who might 
> actually have done this. Is it possible to make a bulleted list in the notes 
> app on your iPad? If so how?
> Mary
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: cannot restart into windows

[Eileen Misrahi]

Hello, 

I’m running Yosemite 10.10.5 and when I go to switch startup disks from the 
system preferences, such as to bootcamp or my external drive, I’m alerted to 
insert my user ID and password for the admin account. So, now I have gotten 
into the habit to unlock first by going to the bottom of the window with 
FN-VO-Right arrow and then VO-left arrow back until the checkbox for the lock 
is under VO, Use the VO-space on it and follow the prompts. I believe I started 
seeing this in 10.10.5, but not in earlier versions of Yosemite. HTH. 

Eileen 
> On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:09 PM, Juan Hernandez  wrote:
> 
> That is where I am at.  System preferences -> startup drive -> select startup 
> drive.
>  
> I am going to try the lock/unlock thing.  I didn’t see that.  Is that a new 
> os x 10.11 feature?  That wasn’t there on 10.10 before.
>  
> Best,
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> ] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk
> Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2015 6:56 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: Re: cannot restart into windows
>  
> Have you tried selecting the startup drive in System Preferences and not in 
> Bootcamp preferences?
>  
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>  
>> On Oct 4, 2015, at 8:50 PM, Juan Hernandez > > wrote:
>>  
>> Hi All,
>>  
>> I just upgraded my macbook pro from os x 10.10 to 10.11.  I now cannot 
>> restart from the system prefs àstartup drive – bootcamp selector.  When I 
>> interact with the radio button controls of bootcamp or the mac os x drive, 
>> they are dimmed.  Has anyone seen this issue?  If yes can this be fixed? Or 
>> must I go into windows via the pressing option key at startup method?
>>  
>> Best,
>>  
>> Juan
>>  
>>  
>>  
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> 
>  
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Re: My profuse apology to the list.

[Ray Foret Jr]

Accepted, at least from me.  Still and all, you brought up issues which I 
believe merit serious consideration.  As I indicated to you this morning, I 
believe, based on your description of your problems, that you may yet have 
extremely serious hardware issues which would more than justify your 
replacement of your troublesem Mac.  You did all the same things I myself would 
have done:  and, truth be told, I would have felt as frustrated as you felt.  
Still, this does bring up another point.  Perhaps, when any of us gets to the 
point you got to this morning, might be a good idea to turn everything off and 
just step away from it for a while and go do something else.  A fresh mind will 
solve issues better than one worn out by frustration.


Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!

Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in!!!

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:29 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Hey there guys, it's Chris Gilland.
>  
> Listen, I really would like to publicly address on list the way that I acted 
> this morning with a few of my messages.
>  
> Guys, I really really messed up and was quite childish in how I reacted.  I 
> was having major issues with my mac as you all know with installing El 
> Capitan.  I had literally been up all night  trying to repair the system, and 
> was exhausted, and not in a good mood at all.  Plus, there has been some 
> family issues going on as well which I'm not gonna get into, but the point 
> is, firstly, I wasn't thinking in my right state of mind.  Secondly, and by 
> far more importantly, I over-reacted big time.  I let the anger get the best 
> of me, which often times I tend to do.  My language used on the list was 
> entirely unacceptable, not to mention very, and I do mean very! distasteful.  
> I take 100% responsibility for any concequences that may come due to this.  
> Folks, I really screwed up, and I'm writing because I genuinely from the 
> bottom of my heart would like to apologize.  I know better than to talk that 
> way on a public list.  Frankly, I'm quite ashamed of myself and how I acted.  
> There was then, and still is now absolutely no excuse!  I don't ask for 
> pitty.  I only hope that my apology can be accepted, and we can move on.  If 
> not however, then I completely understand.  Do know though that I am very 
> sincere with this.  Mark did not force me to write this, and neither did 
> Cara.  I'm doing this on my own will, because I'm deeply regretful for how I 
> acted.
>  
> I can't say any more.  I really truely truely am sorry.
>  
> Have a blessed day, guys.
>  
> Chris.
>  
> 
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