Re: Snappy iPhone 6s, do any other Ios devices compare?

[Chris G]

Hi,
I went from an iPad mini 2 to an iPad mini 4 and notice it is more snappy.

Chris


Chris Grabowski
Mystic Access
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On 10/2/2015 2:13 AM, Anders Holmberg wrote:

Hi!
I will answer that one when i get my iphone in a couple of weeks.
/A

30 sep. 2015 kl. 23:26 skrev Mary Otten :

I have been quite impressed with the snappiness of my new 6s  as compared with 
my 5S. Indeed, when I use my iPad mini to, I can really tell the difference 
between it and my 6s. So I wonder for those of you who have either purchased 
iPad mini 4 or the latest iPod touch and also have an upgraded phone, do either 
of those devices compare in snappiness to the 6S or 6S plus?

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: interesting observation with safari 9

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Yes.  There is a secondary effect as well: because elements are no longer 
“Clickable” you often can’t click individual words in an element, which is 
rather less straightforward to work around.  I’m not sure what the situation is 
like on El Capitan yet, but on Yosemite one could not click an individual word 
if the element was not “clickable” which it sometimes wasn’t detected as such 
even though it was.

And yes you should be getting Safari 9 from the Mac App Store as a software 
update.  Try running “softwareupdate -l” in Terminal to see if it shows up as a 
system update at all.  If not, back out of any beta channel you are on from Sys 
Prefs and give it another try.

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Re: El Capitan and caps lock

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Oh, I'm sorry.  I misunderstood your question.  I thought what you meant was 
you wished just in OSX alone that there was a way to have both.


I'm sorry.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Grant" 

To: "MacVisionaries List" 
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: El Capitan and caps lock


Hi Chris,

Thank you for the reply, however this doesn’t address my specific question. 
The process which many of us have been using to pass the CAPS LOCK KEY 
through to Windows for use with VMWare Fusion renders the CAPS LOCK KEY 
inoperable in the rest of OS X (e.g. outside of Windows and VMWare). So you 
can’t use it as your VO modifier key once you set this up. So, effectively, 
it seems that you can only have one or the other, but not both. I’m 
wondering if others have figured out a workaround.


Best,

Grant

On Oct 1, 2015, at 8:31:12 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Wait... you can have both.

Look in the general category of the Voiceover utility.  there's a popup 
menu that lets you select ctrl+Option, capslock, or both.


Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Grant" 
To: "MacVisionaries List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 10:42 PM
Subject: El Capitan and caps lock


For months now I’ve been using Seil to pass my CAPS LOCK KEY through to 
Windows when using VMWare Fusion. This effectively disabled the CAPS LOCK 
KEY when using OS X, but that was worth the price for me since it allowed 
me to use Windows based screen readers with an appropriate “screen reading 
key”. But now that OS X El Capitan has been released, with support for 
using CAPS LOCK as your VO key, it seems a shame to only have one or the 
other.


Has anybody figured out a workaround?

Best,

Grant

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Re: Latest garage band and automation

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Uh... like, uh, free with anything above minimum of Mountain Lion?

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Singing Sparrow 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:28 AM
  Subject: Re: Latest garage band and automation


  how much is garage band anyway?


  On 10/1/2015 11:10 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Hey, no problem.  Glad that I could help.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Michael Babcock 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:09 AM
  Subject: Re: Latest garage band and automation


  thanks Christopher; 
  found some good guides on making dubstep music on youtube with this, and 
it’s what i wanted (though it’s not dubstep i’m making :D)
  Now time to figure out how to do it with vo.


  Michael Babcock
  Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
  @payown on periscope and twitter.
  http://yourownpay.com/


On Oct 1, 2015, at 8:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


OK Mike, the name of the feature you're talking about, I'm not sure 
what GB called it, but in audio terminology at least, the official word for the 
term you're asking about is called "Sidechaining."

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Michael" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 11:33 PM
Subject: Latest garage band and automation


I'm doing some podcast work for myself and a client of mine, and for 
both of the podcasts I'm doing, the material is brought in from other sources 
such as recording in the field from an iOS device, or other MP3 files on my 
computer.
I remember several years ago, like five years ago, there was a handy 
little feature in garage band or you could identify a track as either the front 
or the back, or something like that, where the compression would kick in and 
automatically fade the music behind the vocal track of a podcast.
From some basic   research I've done on google, apparently some of the 
podcasting features have been removed from GarageBand. Is this the case?
Or, if I remember right the process of getting the music to 
automatically be compressed with the vocals was called automation or something 
like that, is it possible to still do this in GarageBand? If not, is there a 
convenient way to do this?
If it can be done, could someone let me know how they are doing it?
Right now I manually fading the intro in with Amadeus, and then fading 
it out into the vocal tracks. And doing the opposite with the Outtro  file. I 
don't have any instrumental tracks accompanying the vocals, though the podcasts 
could definitely use it if I could find an easy and  accurate way to do this.


Sent from my iPhone

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Re: wwhen

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Ow'w'w.  I think he's talking about the Nuance voices.  Most of them had 
updates to support El Capitan.  they're not new, in the sense of literally 
new voices.  they're just updated.


Dang it though, when're we gonna get the Siri voices on OSX?  Now that! 
would be incredible!


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Shawn Krasniuk" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 1:24 AM
Subject: Re: wwhen


What new voices? I didn't see any new voices besides the ones we already 
had in Yosemite.


Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com


On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:27 AM, adrian  wrote:

when i tried to the new voices for the mac i cant update to them should i 
sign out of the mac store? i am using alcapaton. on a 200014 mac book air 
11 inch.


```Sent from my iPad

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Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

And the logical answer would be like someone in my position who uses their mac 
for work, and also trains people on the mac with Voiceover.  I can't exactly 
effectively support people when I'm running a beta.  What if something breaks 
or changes in a beta which isn't present in the official release.  I need 
things to be consistent when working with my clients.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Shawn Krasniuk 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 1:29 AM
  Subject: Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow


  If you're running the beta of 10.11.1, the logical question is why would you 
want to downgrade to 10.11.0?


  Shawn
  Sent From My White MacBook
  Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
  Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
  Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
  Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com


On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:06 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:


Hi!
I can’t update to it for some reason.
Is this maybe because i have a public beta installed?


  30 sep. 2015 kl. 01:14 skrev Ray Foret Jr :


  I didn't need to be.  That's because they discussed it back in June:  
remember.




  Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

  Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!


  Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in!!!



On Sep 29, 2015, at 5:14 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  
wrote:


Yeah, I know.  And the 10.11.1 beta is out for those in the program.  I 
guess it’s nice to know that they’ve hit a release landmark, but it couldn’t be 
clearer that OS X is getting one hell of a cold shoulder—not even mentioned at 
the keynote.

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Re: Alex choppiness, has any fix been found?

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I don’t have any problems with alex on my mac mini mid 2011.
/A
> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 14:51 skrev Christopher-Mark Gilland :
> 
> Count me as a third.
>  
> Chris.
>  
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Scott Granados 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 8:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: Alex choppiness, has any fix been found?
>> 
>> +1 here, no problems with Alex all the way back to a 2009 Macbook Pro.  
>> Presently running a 2015 15 inch and 2015 13 inch Macbook pro pair of 
>> laptops with no alex issues what so ever.  Also running well on the iPhone.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 8:21 AM, Ray Foret Jr >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Alex working just fine here.  In fact, Alex is the most highly responsive 
>>> voice I have on my mid 2009 Mac book Pro.  
>>> PS.  Those who had been used to using the Nuance voices and loved their 
>>> former quickness of response, and who were dissapointed that under 10.0.5 
>>> much of that had gone away will be delighted to learn that under 10.11.0, 
>>> much of the responsiveness we used to love in the Nuance voices has 
>>> returned.  
>>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>>> 
>>> Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>>> built-in!!!
>>> 
 On Oct 1, 2015, at 6:17 AM, Devin Prater >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi all. I've had my mac for a while now, and have found that Alex is often 
 choppy and unresponsive when used with VoiceOver, even more so than Fred. 
 Has anyone else found that this is so, and fixed it? I have reinstalled my 
 system 2 or so times already, but this bug persists. 
 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Oh dear.
Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at all.
If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the braille 
support will be better.
It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
Also for window eyes but its there.
Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense of 
navigating seems not to be able yet.
Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass this on to 
blablabla.
I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
Still optemistic though.
/A 
> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
> 
> Hello all,
> I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
> As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 10.11 
> while this is for me and others important.
> 
> Some first remarks:
> 1.It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t move 
> around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another program and 
> then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is needed here perhaps?
> 
> 2.I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 are 
> used for capitals and some computer signs.
> When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application has the 
> focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I can hear it 
> but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
> I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
> position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the selected 
> program should appear on the display while switching from one program to 
> another.
> 
> 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, edit-fields , 
> are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they are fully written in 
> dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, aankruisvakje=checkbox, keuzelijst=combobox …
> This should be represented with symbols like { }/{x} [ ] [x] ( )/(x) …
> I subpose that the controls like above, are  presented with this kind of 
> symbols when the interface-language is set on English.
> This is een old question I think but still not changed.
> 
> Any comments or reports to apple accessibility are very welcom
> 
> Kind regards,
> William Windels
> 
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Re: Running windows programs on the mac.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
There are but no accessible way from what i know.
/A
> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 06:50 skrev Singing Sparrow :
> 
> Is there anyway to run windows programs on the mac with out installing 
> windows?
> 
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Re: noise gate is broke on garage band

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Go to:
apple.com/feedback and report this.
Note that the form is a bit tricky.
/A
> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 05:55 skrev Dionipher Presas Herrera :
> 
> noise gate on garage band on el capitan is broke, i thought that this was 
> only broke on beta but when i install the stand alone copy of el capitan, the 
> noise gate is still disabled. i wish i did report this when i was still on 
> beta. 
> 
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Re: Latest garage band and automation

[Jeffrey Shockley]

Um… You might want to rethink that.
Actually, it’s $4.99. However if you already had an earlier version of iLife 
installed such as iLife 11, then you upgraded for free to the new versions of 
those apps including Garage Band. The same goes for the iWork suite.
Hope this helps,
Jeffrey
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:23 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Uh... like, uh, free with anything above minimum of Mountain Lion?
>  
> Chris.
>  
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Singing Sparrow 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:28 AM
>> Subject: Re: Latest garage band and automation
>> 
>> how much is garage band anyway?
>> 
>> On 10/1/2015 11:10 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>>> Hey, no problem.  Glad that I could help.
>>>  
>>> Chris.
>>>  
 - Original Message - 
 From: Michael Babcock 
 To:  
 macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:09 AM
 Subject: Re: Latest garage band and automation
 
 thanks Christopher; 
 found some good guides on making dubstep music on youtube with this, and 
 it’s what i wanted (though it’s not dubstep i’m making :D)
 Now time to figure out how to do it with vo.
 
 Michael Babcock
 Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
 @payown on periscope and twitter.
 http://yourownpay .com/
 
> On Oct 1, 2015, at 8:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
> mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> OK Mike, the name of the feature you're talking about, I'm not sure what 
> GB called it, but in audio terminology at least, the official word for 
> the term you're asking about is called "Sidechaining."
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Michael" < 
> mich...@yourownpay.com 
> >
> To:  >
> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 11:33 PM
> Subject: Latest garage band and automation
> 
> 
> I'm doing some podcast work for myself and a client of mine, and for both 
> of the podcasts I'm doing, the material is brought in from other sources 
> such as recording in the field from an iOS device, or other MP3 files on 
> my computer.
> I remember several years ago, like five years ago, there was a handy 
> little feature in garage band or you could identify a track as either the 
> front or the back, or something like that, where the compression would 
> kick in and automatically fade the music behind the vocal track of a 
> podcast.
> From some basic   research I've done on google, apparently some of the 
> podcasting features have been removed from GarageBand. Is this the case?
> Or, if I remember right the process of getting the music to automatically 
> be compressed with the vocals was called automation or something like 
> that, is it possible to still do this in GarageBand? If not, is there a 
> convenient way to do this?
> If it can be done, could someone let me know how they are doing it?
> Right now I manually fading the intro in with Amadeus, and then fading it 
> out into the vocal tracks. And doing the opposite with the Outtro  file. 
> I don't have any instrumental tracks accompanying the vocals, though the 
> podcasts could definitely use it if I could find an easy and  accurate 
> way to do this.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow

[Jeffrey Shockley]

Then, the next logical question would be, why are you putting, or why would you 
want to put, beta stuff like that on a machine that you are using to help train 
and support clients? I mean, I could understand it if it was a personal machine 
used for personal stuff.
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:31 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> And the logical answer would be like someone in my position who uses their 
> mac for work, and also trains people on the mac with Voiceover.  I can't 
> exactly effectively support people when I'm running a beta.  What if 
> something breaks or changes in a beta which isn't present in the official 
> release.  I need things to be consistent when working with my clients.
>  
> Chris.
>  
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Shawn Krasniuk 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 1:29 AM
>> Subject: Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow
>> 
>> If you're running the beta of 10.11.1, the logical question is why would you 
>> want to downgrade to 10.11.0?
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:06 AM, Anders Holmberg >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> I can’t update to it for some reason.
>>> Is this maybe because i have a public beta installed?
>>> 
 30 sep. 2015 kl. 01:14 skrev Ray Foret Jr >>> >:
 
 I didn't need to be.  That's because they discussed it back in June:  
 remember.
 
 
 Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
 
 Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
 
 Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
 built-in!!!
 
> On Sep 29, 2015, at 5:14 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  > wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I know.  And the 10.11.1 beta is out for those in the program.  I 
> guess it’s nice to know that they’ve hit a release landmark, but it 
> couldn’t be clearer that OS X is getting one hell of a cold shoulder—not 
> even mentioned at the keynote.
> 
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>>> 
>>> 
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back on yosemite

[jeff `greene]

Hi, Ok last night after my bad experience with OSX 10.11, I formatted
my drive and re-installed Yosemite. I used my carbon copy cloaner
drive to copy everything back to my blank drive. It all went smoothly!
I'm only missing one thing, will have to redownload it.
I tried going into recovery mode and re-installing from there but
instead of offering me Lion, like it always did, it went right back to
El Capitan. So, I guess I'll wait for a few updates before taking the
plunge again.
Jeff

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Re: Latest garage band and automation

[Singing Sparrow]

Ok, so i would have to have ilife installed to get the free upgrades 
then? will ilife 11 work on the upper versions of osx and does this also 
apply with iworks as well?



On 10/2/2015 6:35 AM, Jeffrey Shockley wrote:

Um… You might want to rethink that.
Actually, it’s $4.99. However if you already had an earlier version of 
iLife installed such as iLife 11, then you upgraded for free to the 
new versions of those apps including Garage Band. The same goes for 
the iWork suite.

Hope this helps,
Jeffrey
On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:23 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Uh... like, uh, free with anything above minimum of Mountain Lion?
Chris.

- Original Message -
*From:*Singing Sparrow 
*To:*macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 


*Sent:*Friday, October 02, 2015 12:28 AM
*Subject:*Re: Latest garage band and automation

how much is garage band anyway?

On 10/1/2015 11:10 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Hey, no problem.  Glad that I could help.
Chris.

- Original Message -
*From:*Michael Babcock 
*To:*macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
*Sent:*Friday, October 02, 2015 12:09 AM
*Subject:*Re: Latest garage band and automation

thanks Christopher;
found some good guides on making dubstep music on youtube with 
this, and it’s what i wanted (though it’s not dubstep i’m making :D)

Now time to figure out how to do it with vo.

Michael Babcock
Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
@payown on periscope and twitter.
http://yourownpay .com/

On Oct 1, 2015, at 8:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote:


OK Mike, the name of the feature you're talking about, I'm not 
sure what GB called it, but in audio terminology at least, the 
official word for the term you're asking about is called 
"Sidechaining."


Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Michael" 
To: >

Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 11:33 PM
Subject: Latest garage band and automation


I'm doing some podcast work for myself and a client of mine, and 
for both of the podcasts I'm doing, the material is brought in 
from other sources such as recording in the field from an iOS 
device, or other MP3 files on my computer.
I remember several years ago, like five years ago, there was a 
handy little feature in garage band or you could identify a track 
as either the front or the back, or something like that, where 
the compression would kick in and automatically fade the music 
behind the vocal track of a podcast.
From some basic   research I've done on google, apparently some 
of the podcasting features have been removed from GarageBand. Is 
this the case?
Or, if I remember right the process of getting the music to 
automatically be compressed with the vocals was called automation 
or something like that, is it possible to still do this in 
GarageBand? If not, is there a convenient way to do this?

If it can be done, could someone let me know how they are doing it?
Right now I manually fading the intro in with Amadeus, and then 
fading it out into the vocal tracks. And doing the opposite with 
the Outtro  file. I don't have any instrumental tracks 
accompanying the vocals, though the podcasts could definitely use 
it if I could find an easy and  accurate way to do this.



Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Alex choppiness, has any fix been found?

[Scott Granados]

The audio receiver is n to going to appear in the HDMI chain as a video device. 
 The possible exception to this and I am not sure about this at all but if your 
audio receiver is doing line doubling and injecting menus and such in to the 
video stream I don’t know how that appears to the Mac.  best use a real monitor 
for good results.

> On Oct 1, 2015, at 5:33 PM, Ray Foret Jr  wr all ote:
> 
> Sure, but of course, if one's AV receiver is turned on and the HDMI input to 
> which the Mac Mini is connected, that still would not work?  
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
> 
> Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in!!!
> 
>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Scott Granados > > wrote:
>> 
>> No, HDMI needs to have data returned by the end device as well.  Unlike old 
>> TV connections, HDMI is a 2 way street.  So a real monitor and or adapter 
>> needs to be attached.  There is a monitor adapter that’s active that did the 
>> trick but I haven’t used this personally, only a real monitor on this side.
>> 
>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 11:28 AM, Ray Foret Jr >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Or better yet, just plug the mini straight in to one's AV receiver via HDMI 
>>> and go that way.  Would that work?
>>> 
>>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>>> 
>>> Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>>> built-in!!!
>>> 
 On Oct 1, 2015, at 10:18 AM, 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
 mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> 
 wrote:
 
 Yes, if you check the mailing list archives there were quite a few threads 
 about this. Up until recently if you didn't have a monitor attached the 
 Mini would would probe endlessly for attributes of that non-existant 
 hardware, causing all kinds of performance issues. If this mini is of that 
 vintage then it would easily case all manner of bad behavior. The general 
 solutions were to either attache a dirt cheap real display just to make 
 the mini happy or various dongles to fake it. In the former case, the 
 monitor didn't even need to be turned on, just plugged in so the Mini 
 could probe the sense pins and be satisfied. For the latter, there are a 
 number of them out there. Here's one on Amazon for $13:
 http://www.amazon.com/CablesOnline-Graphics-Display-Detection-VE-D01/dp/B00EAY13GC
  
 
 and you'll need the Apple cable to go from whatever the Mini has to VGA to 
 make it work. By the time your done it could be cheaper/better to just get 
 a real display at a yard sale or discount place.
 
 CB
 
 On 10/1/15 9:49 AM, Ray Foret Jr wrote:
> Here's another thought.  What's that fake plug you can put in to the 
> video port to fool a mini in to thinking there's a monitor there?
> 
> 
> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
> 
> Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in!!!
> 
>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 8:42 AM, Scott Granados > > wrote:
>> 
>> I had an idea on this one.
>> 
>> If he’s using a Mini is there a monitor attached?  This problem happens 
>> when there isn’t a monitor attached.  If there is then obviously that’s 
>> not it but if not you may try attaching one.  Else this poster has the 
>> right idea, reformat and start over.
>> 
>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 9:40 AM, Jeffrey Shockley >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> There are many variations of Mac Many out there.
>>> Have you ever considered maybe backing up your data and reformatting 
>>> and starting from scratch?  It just might help. :)
>>> By the way, I haven't seen the problem you are talking about.
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> Jeffrey
>>> 
>>> On 10/1/2015 8:40 AM, Devin Prater wrote:
 Well, I'm on a Mac Mini. 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Oct 1, 2015, at 7:28 AM, Scott Granados >>> > wrote:
 
> +1 here, no problems with Alex all the way back to a 2009 Macbook 
> Pro.  Presently running a 2015 15 inch and 2015 13 inch Macbook pro 
> pair of laptops with no alex issues what so ever.  Also running well 
> on the iPhone.
> 
> 
>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 8:21 AM, Ray Foret Jr < 
>> rforet7...@comcast.net 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> Alex worki

Re: Latest garage band and automation

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Weird, cause I did have ILife 11 installed, yes, but, I also remember Apple 
very deliberetly telling me that they'd made the apps free.  I might a been 
mistold though.

Sorry for the confusion.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jeffrey Shockley 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 7:35 AM
  Subject: Re: Latest garage band and automation


  Um… You might want to rethink that.
  Actually, it’s $4.99. However if you already had an earlier version of iLife 
installed such as iLife 11, then you upgraded for free to the new versions of 
those apps including Garage Band. The same goes for the iWork suite.
  Hope this helps,
  Jeffrey

On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:23 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Uh... like, uh, free with anything above minimum of Mountain Lion?

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Singing Sparrow
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:28 AM
  Subject: Re: Latest garage band and automation


  how much is garage band anyway?


  On 10/1/2015 11:10 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Hey, no problem.  Glad that I could help.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Michael Babcock
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:09 AM
  Subject: Re: Latest garage band and automation


  thanks Christopher; 
  found some good guides on making dubstep music on youtube with this, 
and it’s what i wanted (though it’s not dubstep i’m making :D)
  Now time to figure out how to do it with vo.


  Michael Babcock
  Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
  @payown on periscope and twitter.
  http://yourownpay.com/


On Oct 1, 2015, at 8:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


OK Mike, the name of the feature you're talking about, I'm not sure 
what GB called it, but in audio terminology at least, the official word for the 
term you're asking about is called "Sidechaining."

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Michael" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 11:33 PM
Subject: Latest garage band and automation


I'm doing some podcast work for myself and a client of mine, and 
for both of the podcasts I'm doing, the material is brought in from other 
sources such as recording in the field from an iOS device, or other MP3 files 
on my computer.
I remember several years ago, like five years ago, there was a 
handy little feature in garage band or you could identify a track as either the 
front or the back, or something like that, where the compression would kick in 
and automatically fade the music behind the vocal track of a podcast.
From some basic   research I've done on google, apparently some of 
the podcasting features have been removed from GarageBand. Is this the case?
Or, if I remember right the process of getting the music to 
automatically be compressed with the vocals was called automation or something 
like that, is it possible to still do this in GarageBand? If not, is there a 
convenient way to do this?
If it can be done, could someone let me know how they are doing it?
Right now I manually fading the intro in with Amadeus, and then 
fading it out into the vocal tracks. And doing the opposite with the Outtro  
file. I don't have any instrumental tracks accompanying the vocals, though the 
podcasts could definitely use it if I could find an easy and  accurate way to 
do this.


Sent from my iPhone

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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Scott Granados]

If Apple were a european company or especially German company they would have 
faked it so the braille support only worked in the government agency’s office 
responsible for certifying braille support.  It would have failed in the real 
world.  Sort of the same philosophy as the German Auto manufacturers and 
pollution control.:)


> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Oh dear.
> Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at all.
> If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the braille 
> support will be better.
> It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
> Also for window eyes but its there.
> Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense of 
> navigating seems not to be able yet.
> Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
> Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
> Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
> Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
> THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass this on 
> to blablabla.
> I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
> Still optemistic though.
> /A 
>> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
>> As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 10.11 
>> while this is for me and others important.
>> 
>> Some first remarks:
>> 1.   It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t move 
>> around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another program and 
>> then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is needed here perhaps?
>> 
>> 2.   I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 are 
>> used for capitals and some computer signs.
>> When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application has 
>> the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I can hear 
>> it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
>> I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
>> position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the selected 
>> program should appear on the display while switching from one program to 
>> another.
>> 
>> 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, edit-fields 
>> , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they are fully written 
>> in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, aankruisvakje=checkbox, 
>> keuzelijst=combobox …
>> This should be represented with symbols like { }/{x} [ ] [x] ( )/(x) …
>> I subpose that the controls like above, are  presented with this kind of 
>> symbols when the interface-language is set on English.
>> This is een old question I think but still not changed.
>> 
>> Any comments or reports to apple accessibility are very welcom
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> William Windels
>> 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Scott Granados]

BTW, I meant that tongue and cheek, I am in total agreement with you.  Apple’s 
braille support needs a lot of work and it’s inexcusable how bad it is now.

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Oh dear.
> Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at all.
> If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the braille 
> support will be better.
> It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
> Also for window eyes but its there.
> Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense of 
> navigating seems not to be able yet.
> Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
> Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
> Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
> Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
> THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass this on 
> to blablabla.
> I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
> Still optemistic though.
> /A 
>> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
>> As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 10.11 
>> while this is for me and others important.
>> 
>> Some first remarks:
>> 1.   It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t move 
>> around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another program and 
>> then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is needed here perhaps?
>> 
>> 2.   I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 are 
>> used for capitals and some computer signs.
>> When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application has 
>> the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I can hear 
>> it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
>> I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
>> position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the selected 
>> program should appear on the display while switching from one program to 
>> another.
>> 
>> 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, edit-fields 
>> , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they are fully written 
>> in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, aankruisvakje=checkbox, 
>> keuzelijst=combobox …
>> This should be represented with symbols like { }/{x} [ ] [x] ( )/(x) …
>> I subpose that the controls like above, are  presented with this kind of 
>> symbols when the interface-language is set on English.
>> This is een old question I think but still not changed.
>> 
>> Any comments or reports to apple accessibility are very welcom
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> William Windels
>> 
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Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Well, think about it this way.

What if, like me, you were using the machine for personal use, but then you got 
a job, and therefore decided to start using that system for work as it's more 
powerful than any of the other systems you have at that time in your posession.

OK, so now you got this system running a beta, but you wanna use it for work, 
and stop using it for personal.  What're you gonna do?  You gotta downgrade it. 
 Right?

I never said that I'd put a beta on the system for work purposes, unless my 
work required that I do so as part of their own testing.  Quit putting words in 
my mouth.  LOL!

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jeffrey Shockley 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 7:41 AM
  Subject: Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow


  Then, the next logical question would be, why are you putting, or why would 
you want to put, beta stuff like that on a machine that you are using to help 
train and support clients? I mean, I could understand it if it was a personal 
machine used for personal stuff.

On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:31 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


And the logical answer would be like someone in my position who uses their 
mac for work, and also trains people on the mac with Voiceover.  I can't 
exactly effectively support people when I'm running a beta.  What if something 
breaks or changes in a beta which isn't present in the official release.  I 
need things to be consistent when working with my clients.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Shawn Krasniuk
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 1:29 AM
  Subject: Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow


  If you're running the beta of 10.11.1, the logical question is why would 
you want to downgrade to 10.11.0?


  Shawn
  Sent From My White MacBook
  Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
  Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
  Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
  Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com


On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:06 AM, Anders Holmberg  
wrote:


Hi!
I can’t update to it for some reason.
Is this maybe because i have a public beta installed?


  30 sep. 2015 kl. 01:14 skrev Ray Foret Jr :


  I didn't need to be.  That's because they discussed it back in June:  
remember.




  Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

  Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!


  Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the 
blind built-in!!!



On Sep 29, 2015, at 5:14 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu 
 wrote:


Yeah, I know.  And the 10.11.1 beta is out for those in the 
program.  I guess it’s nice to know that they’ve hit a release landmark, but it 
couldn’t be clearer that OS X is getting one hell of a cold shoulder—not even 
mentioned at the keynote.

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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Nah Anders, I feel your pain completely.  Even iOS has acceptable braille 
support, so it’s not as if they couldn’t port that over to OS X.  Clearly 
nobody at Apple uses or cares about braille.  Probably because it doesn’t make 
them any money from hardware sales.  Kinda tragic.

Hey Scott, you can stop trolling now.  The grand old US of A isn’t exactly 
known for its braille literacy or deep regard for environmentalism either. :)

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Re: back on yosemite

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Don't you just love imaging software?  I prefer Superduper frankly over CCC, 
but either way, I'm with ya, my friend!  You'd not know how! many times OS 
images have saved my ass!  So for anyone who has neither of these two 
solutions, I'd highly! highly highly! recommend investing in one or the 
other, if not both.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "jeff `greene" 

To: "macvisionaries" 
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 7:59 AM
Subject: back on yosemite



Hi, Ok last night after my bad experience with OSX 10.11, I formatted
my drive and re-installed Yosemite. I used my carbon copy cloaner
drive to copy everything back to my blank drive. It all went smoothly!
I'm only missing one thing, will have to redownload it.
I tried going into recovery mode and re-installing from there but
instead of offering me Lion, like it always did, it went right back to
El Capitan. So, I guess I'll wait for a few updates before taking the
plunge again.
Jeff

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Re: Latest garage band and automation

[Jeffrey Shockley]

Hi,
If you have ever had them installed before, and you have used the same Apple ID 
with a Mac before, and have updated them before from the App Store, then, you 
do not have to buy these newest versions.
However, if you haven’t, then you’ll have to buy them, or I’m not sure if this 
would work anymore, but you could install the iLife 11 apps and upgrade them 
from the App Store by just going to Updates and installing them, I think. I 
don’t quite remember, but I think that’s how I did it, it’s been a long time 
since I did it.
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:10 AM, Singing Sparrow  wrote:
> 
> Ok, so i would have to have ilife installed to get the free upgrades then? 
> will ilife 11 work on the upper versions of osx and does this also apply with 
> iworks as well?
> 
> 
> On 10/2/2015 6:35 AM, Jeffrey Shockley wrote:
>> Um… You might want to rethink that.
>> Actually, it’s $4.99. However if you already had an earlier version of iLife 
>> installed such as iLife 11, then you upgraded for free to the new versions 
>> of those apps including Garage Band. The same goes for the iWork suite.
>> Hope this helps,
>> Jeffrey
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:23 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Uh... like, uh, free with anything above minimum of Mountain Lion?
>>>  
>>> Chris.
>>>  
 - Original Message - 
 From: Singing Sparrow 
 To:  
 macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:28 AM
 Subject: Re: Latest garage band and automation
 
 how much is garage band anyway?
 
 On 10/1/2015 11:10 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
> Hey, no problem.  Glad that I could help.
>  
> Chris.
>  
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Michael Babcock 
>> To:  
>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: Latest garage band and automation
>> 
>> thanks Christopher; 
>> found some good guides on making dubstep music on youtube with this, and 
>> it’s what i wanted (though it’s not dubstep i’m making :D)
>> Now time to figure out how to do it with vo.
>> 
>> Michael Babcock
>> Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
>> @payown on periscope and twitter.
>>  http://yourownpay .com/
>> 
>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 8:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland < 
>>> clgillan...@gmail.com 
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> OK Mike, the name of the feature you're talking about, I'm not sure 
>>> what GB called it, but in audio terminology at least, the official word 
>>>   for the term you're asking about is 
>>> called "Sidechaining."
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - From: "Michael" >> >
>>> To: < 
>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> >
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 11:33 PM
>>> Subject: Latest garage band and automation
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm doing some podcast work for myself and a client of mine, and for 
>>> both of the podcasts I'm doing, the material is brought in from other 
>>> sources such as recording in the field from an iOS device, or other MP3 
>>> files on my computer.
>>> I remember several years ago, like five years ago, there was a handy 
>>> little feature in garage band or you could identify a track as either 
>>> the front or the back, or something like that, where the compression 
>>> would kick in and automatically fade the music behind the vocal track 
>>> of a podcast.
>>> From some basic   research I've done on google, apparently some of the 
>>> podcasting features have been removed from GarageBand. Is this the case?
>>> Or, if I remember right the process of getting the music to 
>>> automatically be compressed with the vocals was called automation or 
>>> something like that, is it possible to still do this in GarageBand? If 
>>> not, is there a convenient way to do this?
>>> If it can be done, could someone let me know how they are doing it?
>>> Right now I manually fading the intro in with Amadeus, and then fading 
>>> it out into the vocal tracks. And doing the opposite with the Outtro  
>>> file. I don't have any instrumental tracks accompanying the vocals, 
>>> though the podcasts could definitely use it if I could find an easy and 
>>>  accurate way to do this.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You rece

Re: back on yosemite

[Jeffrey Shockley]

What advantages do these pieces of software have over Apple’s built in Time 
Machine? Just wondering.
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:26 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Don't you just love imaging software?  I prefer Superduper frankly over CCC, 
> but either way, I'm with ya, my friend!  You'd not know how! many times OS 
> images have saved my ass!  So for anyone who has neither of these two 
> solutions, I'd highly! highly highly! recommend investing in one or the 
> other, if not both.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "jeff `greene" 
> To: "macvisionaries" 
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 7:59 AM
> Subject: back on yosemite
> 
> 
>> Hi, Ok last night after my bad experience with OSX 10.11, I formatted
>> my drive and re-installed Yosemite. I used my carbon copy cloaner
>> drive to copy everything back to my blank drive. It all went smoothly!
>> I'm only missing one thing, will have to redownload it.
>> I tried going into recovery mode and re-installing from there but
>> instead of offering me Lion, like it always did, it went right back to
>> El Capitan. So, I guess I'll wait for a few updates before taking the
>> plunge again.
>> Jeff
>> 
>> -- 
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> 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Scott Granados]

Maybe not but we don’t lie about it either.:)  That whole VW / AUDI / PORSCHE 
thing cracks me up especially from a country that claims to be so green.

I don’t know about the braille literacy thing either to be fair.  Now this may 
have changed, I fully admit when I was in public school we still had public 
schools that were worth while and they hadn’t degraded to the point they are 
now but I as well as all the blind folks in my state at least received 
fantastic braille training as well as mobility and each blind student received 
a full free ride to college up to the cost of the degree if it was offered in 
our state school or full cost if the degree was only available outside the 
state or at certain universities like special technical degrees for example.  
Bringing this back on topic as blind students we were also encouraged to work 
with the computers which at the time were Apple 2 series.  I also had a blind 
teacher, in the states I believe they are called itinerate teachers or resource 
teachers who work with blind and other disabled students to augment the class 
room.  Maybe things have changed but at least when I went to school we had a 
pretty good deal?  I see a lot of European blind engineers on different lists 
so I suspect you have something similarly forward thinking available across the 
pond?

Oh and to the original poster and you, I’m in total agreement.  I’m not sure if 
the problem is that Apple doesn’t produce the hardware, I don’t suspect that 
it’s but what ever the reason the braille support is lacking and seriously 
lacking at that.  What’s interesting is the support is quite a bit better on 
the phone.  Braille at least with the focus 40 I’m using on the iPhone isn’t 
half bad, on the Mac though it’s just about unusable.  Could be the guy behind 
the keyboard (pointing at myself) but others have agreed so I don’t think it’s 
just me.




> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:23 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Nah Anders, I feel your pain completely.  Even iOS has acceptable braille 
> support, so it’s not as if they couldn’t port that over to OS X.  Clearly 
> nobody at Apple uses or cares about braille.  Probably because it doesn’t 
> make them any money from hardware sales.  Kinda tragic.
> 
> Hey Scott, you can stop trolling now.  The grand old US of A isn’t exactly 
> known for its braille literacy or deep regard for environmentalism either. :)
> 
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Re: back on yosemite

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I like the fact that they literally take an exact bootable partition 
snapshot of your drive.  Time machine basically only backs up your files and 
your applications/settings.  It doesn't literally make a completely bootable 
image.  there are some things Time machine simply will not easily backup.


Plus, it's less tedious using one of these apps, as with Time Machine, you 
have to reinstall the OS, then! take a second step after that to then copy 
all your stuff back over.  With Time Machine, you boot to the backup 
partition, then you just reimage it back over to the partition volume which 
is corrupted, and all in one step, within about an hour or 2 at absolute 
most normally, you're back up and running in business.


To me, it's just way way more seemless.

Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Jeffrey Shockley" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: back on yosemite


What advantages do these pieces of software have over Apple’s built in Time 
Machine? Just wondering.
On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:26 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Don't you just love imaging software?  I prefer Superduper frankly over 
CCC, but either way, I'm with ya, my friend!  You'd not know how! many 
times OS images have saved my ass!  So for anyone who has neither of these 
two solutions, I'd highly! highly highly! recommend investing in one or 
the other, if not both.


Chris.

- Original Message - From: "jeff `greene" 
To: "macvisionaries" 
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 7:59 AM
Subject: back on yosemite



Hi, Ok last night after my bad experience with OSX 10.11, I formatted
my drive and re-installed Yosemite. I used my carbon copy cloaner
drive to copy everything back to my blank drive. It all went smoothly!
I'm only missing one thing, will have to redownload it.
I tried going into recovery mode and re-installing from there but
instead of offering me Lion, like it always did, it went right back to
El Capitan. So, I guess I'll wait for a few updates before taking the
plunge again.
Jeff

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Re: Heart Rate Monitor on Apple Watch

[Scott Granados]

Did they happen to compare the fitbit as well?  I have one and am just curious.

> On Oct 1, 2015, at 11:18 PM, Terje Strømberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On tv there was a test of several smart watches. Aplle Watch Heart Beat 
> Monitor was the only one that showed the correct pulse with only the clock 
> armband attached. The Garmin sport watch needed a belt around the belly. Nice 
> to know that the heart beat monitor works correct. Gives an impression of 
> quality electronic design. Although the Apple Watch was the most expensive, 
> it was the smart watch you should by if you needed one. 
> 
> The heart beat test was done at a fitness center with expers equipment as a 
> key book i.e. paralelle comparism.
> 
> Take care
> 
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Re: Major data breach at Experian impacting T-Mobile customers

[Scott Granados]

When I heard about it I doubt the average customer service rep new anything 
about it.  It has just broken as a leaked report on CNBC last night.  Today 
though I bet they will have an answer.
 


> On Oct 1, 2015, at 5:30 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Scott. I hope people have better luck with t-mo then I did. They were 
> clue free when I called them just now. I mean totally clue free.
> Mary
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 1:46 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Thought this was important enough to bring up here in case anyone activated 
>> service on T-Mobile recently.
>> 
>> Hi, it’s breaking on the wires now, CNBC is reporting that Experian, one of 
>> the large credit bureaus has experienced a data breach.  While the consumer 
>> division of Experian is claimed to be unimpacted the company states that a 
>> business division that processes applications for T-Mobile was involved.  
>> You’ll want to call T-Mobile and find out who was involved and if you were 
>> have them pay for identity theft monitoring.  You may have to fight with 
>> Experian directly.  I have no more details yet this just appeared with in 
>> the last 5 minutes on CNBC.
>> 
>> Watch out for your data if you’re a t-mobile customer.  Also, it’s important 
>> to note this isn’t at this point appearing to be a failure on t-mobile’s 
>> part but rather a failure of security at Experian, a totally different 
>> company.  Be careful out there.
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Scott Davert]

No, it's not just you. Braille support is still sub-par in many cases
on OSX, with bugs I've reported 2 years ago still not fixed. Because I
only have one mac, and am heavily dependent on it, I cannot put betas
on it or risk upgrading because I'm afraid of the bugs I may
encounter. I'm still running Yosemite, and am a bit reluctant to do
this upgrade because I'm so dependent on braille.

Scott

On 10/2/15, Scott Granados  wrote:
> Maybe not but we don’t lie about it either.:)  That whole VW / AUDI /
> PORSCHE thing cracks me up especially from a country that claims to be so
> green.
>
> I don’t know about the braille literacy thing either to be fair.  Now this
> may have changed, I fully admit when I was in public school we still had
> public schools that were worth while and they hadn’t degraded to the point
> they are now but I as well as all the blind folks in my state at least
> received fantastic braille training as well as mobility and each blind
> student received a full free ride to college up to the cost of the degree if
> it was offered in our state school or full cost if the degree was only
> available outside the state or at certain universities like special
> technical degrees for example.  Bringing this back on topic as blind
> students we were also encouraged to work with the computers which at the
> time were Apple 2 series.  I also had a blind teacher, in the states I
> believe they are called itinerate teachers or resource teachers who work
> with blind and other disabled students to augment the class room.  Maybe
> things have changed but at least when I went to school we had a pretty good
> deal?  I see a lot of European blind engineers on different lists so I
> suspect you have something similarly forward thinking available across the
> pond?
>
> Oh and to the original poster and you, I’m in total agreement.  I’m not sure
> if the problem is that Apple doesn’t produce the hardware, I don’t suspect
> that it’s but what ever the reason the braille support is lacking and
> seriously lacking at that.  What’s interesting is the support is quite a bit
> better on the phone.  Braille at least with the focus 40 I’m using on the
> iPhone isn’t half bad, on the Mac though it’s just about unusable.  Could be
> the guy behind the keyboard (pointing at myself) but others have agreed so I
> don’t think it’s just me.
>
>
>
>
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:23 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Nah Anders, I feel your pain completely.  Even iOS has acceptable braille
>> support, so it’s not as if they couldn’t port that over to OS X.  Clearly
>> nobody at Apple uses or cares about braille.  Probably because it doesn’t
>> make them any money from hardware sales.  Kinda tragic.
>>
>> Hey Scott, you can stop trolling now.  The grand old US of A isn’t exactly
>> known for its braille literacy or deep regard for environmentalism either.
>> :)
>>
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RE: Major data breach at Experian impacting T-Mobile customers

[george b]

Well I would hope so since it has effected 15,000,000, people

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 06:05
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Major data breach at Experian impacting T-Mobile customers

When I heard about it I doubt the average customer service rep new anything 
about it.  It has just broken as a leaked report on CNBC last night.  Today 
though I bet they will have an answer.
 


> On Oct 1, 2015, at 5:30 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Scott. I hope people have better luck with t-mo then I did. They were 
> clue free when I called them just now. I mean totally clue free.
> Mary
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 1:46 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> Thought this was important enough to bring up here in case anyone activated 
>> service on T-Mobile recently.
>> 
>> Hi, it’s breaking on the wires now, CNBC is reporting that Experian, one of 
>> the large credit bureaus has experienced a data breach.  While the consumer 
>> division of Experian is claimed to be unimpacted the company states that a 
>> business division that processes applications for T-Mobile was involved.  
>> You’ll want to call T-Mobile and find out who was involved and if you were 
>> have them pay for identity theft monitoring.  You may have to fight with 
>> Experian directly.  I have no more details yet this just appeared with in 
>> the last 5 minutes on CNBC.
>> 
>> Watch out for your data if you’re a t-mobile customer.  Also, it’s important 
>> to note this isn’t at this point appearing to be a failure on t-mobile’s 
>> part but rather a failure of security at Experian, a totally different 
>> company.  Be careful out there.
>> 
>> Scott
>> 
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Re: noise gate is broke on garage band

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

i already reported it. thanks.
> On 02 Oct 2015, at 12:00 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Go to:
> apple.com/feedback and report this.
> Note that the form is a bit tricky.
> /A
>> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 05:55 skrev Dionipher Presas Herrera :
>> 
>> noise gate on garage band on el capitan is broke, i thought that this was 
>> only broke on beta but when i install the stand alone copy of el capitan, 
>> the noise gate is still disabled. i wish i did report this when i was still 
>> on beta. 
>> 
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my question to the manager of local apple store yesterday

[george b]

Well,

I asked since apple is such a "green" company.  As I was rubbing my hand across 
the new solid oak tables, and work spaces I asked, " how many trees do you 
think apple had cut down to do this in all their stors", I got no answer

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Scott Granados
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 05:39
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: 10.11 and braille

Maybe not but we don’t lie about it either.:)  That whole VW / AUDI / PORSCHE 
thing cracks me up especially from a country that claims to be so green.

I don’t know about the braille literacy thing either to be fair.  Now this may 
have changed, I fully admit when I was in public school we still had public 
schools that were worth while and they hadn’t degraded to the point they are 
now but I as well as all the blind folks in my state at least received 
fantastic braille training as well as mobility and each blind student received 
a full free ride to college up to the cost of the degree if it was offered in 
our state school or full cost if the degree was only available outside the 
state or at certain universities like special technical degrees for example.  
Bringing this back on topic as blind students we were also encouraged to work 
with the computers which at the time were Apple 2 series.  I also had a blind 
teacher, in the states I believe they are called itinerate teachers or resource 
teachers who work with blind and other disabled students to augment the class 
room.  Maybe things have changed but at least when I went to school we had a 
pretty good deal?  I see a lot of European blind engineers on different lists 
so I suspect you have something similarly forward thinking available across the 
pond?

Oh and to the original poster and you, I’m in total agreement.  I’m not sure if 
the problem is that Apple doesn’t produce the hardware, I don’t suspect that 
it’s but what ever the reason the braille support is lacking and seriously 
lacking at that.  What’s interesting is the support is quite a bit better on 
the phone.  Braille at least with the focus 40 I’m using on the iPhone isn’t 
half bad, on the Mac though it’s just about unusable.  Could be the guy behind 
the keyboard (pointing at myself) but others have agreed so I don’t think it’s 
just me.




> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:23 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Nah Anders, I feel your pain completely.  Even iOS has acceptable braille 
> support, so it’s not as if they couldn’t port that over to OS X.  Clearly 
> nobody at Apple uses or cares about braille.  Probably because it doesn’t 
> make them any money from hardware sales.  Kinda tragic.
> 
> Hey Scott, you can stop trolling now.  The grand old US of A isn’t exactly 
> known for its braille literacy or deep regard for environmentalism either. :)
> 
> -- 
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Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

i already unenroll my system from beta. 
> On 02 Oct 2015, at 2:18 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Well, think about it this way.
>  
> What if, like me, you were using the machine for personal use, but then you 
> got a job, and therefore decided to start using that system for work as it's 
> more powerful than any of the other systems you have at that time in your 
> posession.
>  
> OK, so now you got this system running a beta, but you wanna use it for work, 
> and stop using it for personal.  What're you gonna do?  You gotta downgrade 
> it.  Right?
>  
> I never said that I'd put a beta on the system for work purposes, unless my 
> work required that I do so as part of their own testing.  Quit putting words 
> in my mouth.  LOL!
>  
> Chris.
>  
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Jeffrey Shockley 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 7:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow
>> 
>> Then, the next logical question would be, why are you putting, or why would 
>> you want to put, beta stuff like that on a machine that you are using to 
>> help train and support clients? I mean, I could understand it if it was a 
>> personal machine used for personal stuff.
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:31 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> And the logical answer would be like someone in my position who uses their 
>>> mac for work, and also trains people on the mac with Voiceover.  I can't 
>>> exactly effectively support people when I'm running a beta.  What if 
>>> something breaks or changes in a beta which isn't  present in the 
>>> official release.  I need things to be consistent when working with my 
>>> clients.
>>>  
>>> Chris.
>>>  
 - Original Message - 
 From: Shawn Krasniuk 
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 1:29 AM
 Subject: Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow
 
 If you're running the beta of 10.11.1, the logical question is why would 
 you want to downgrade to 10.11.0?
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
 Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
 Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
 Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
> On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:06 AM, Anders Holmberg  > wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I can’t update to it for some reason.
> Is this maybe because i have a public beta installed?
> 
>> 30 sep. 2015 kl. 01:14 skrev Ray Foret Jr > >:
>> 
>> I didn't need to be.  That's because they discussed it back in June:  
>> remember.
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
>> 
>> Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the 
>> blind built-in!!!
>> 
>>> On Sep 29, 2015, at 5:14 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yeah, I know.  And the 10.11.1 beta is out for those in the program.  I 
>>> guess it’s nice to know that they’ve hit a release landmark, but it 
>>> couldn’t be clearer that OS X is getting one hell of a cold 
>>> shoulder—not even mentioned at the keynote.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>> .
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>>> .
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>>> .
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>> 
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Re: Latest garage band and automation

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

you can try to your purchased on apps store if you can find garage band on your 
purchased.
> On 02 Oct 2015, at 2:30 PM, Jeffrey Shockley  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> If you have ever had them installed before, and you have used the same Apple 
> ID with a Mac before, and have updated them before from the App Store, then, 
> you do not have to buy these newest versions.
> However, if you haven’t, then you’ll have to buy them, or I’m not sure if 
> this would work anymore, but you could install the iLife 11 apps and upgrade 
> them from the App Store by just going to Updates and installing them, I 
> think. I don’t quite remember, but I think that’s how I did it, it’s been a 
> long time since I did it.
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:10 AM, Singing Sparrow > > wrote:
>> 
>> Ok, so i would have to have ilife installed to get the free upgrades then? 
>> will ilife 11 work on the upper versions of osx and does this also apply 
>> with iworks as well?
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/2/2015 6:35 AM, Jeffrey Shockley wrote:
>>> Um… You might want to rethink that.
>>> Actually, it’s $4.99. However if you already had an earlier version of 
>>> iLife installed such as iLife 11, then you upgraded for free to the new 
>>> versions of those apps including Garage Band. The same goes for the iWork 
>>> suite.
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> Jeffrey
 On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:23 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote:
 
 Uh... like, uh, free with anything above minimum of Mountain Lion?
  
 Chris.
  
> - Original Message - 
> From: Singing Sparrow 
> To:  
> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> 
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:28 AM
> Subject: Re: Latest garage band and automation
> 
> how much is garage band anyway?
> 
> On 10/1/2015 11:10 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>> Hey, no problem.  Glad that I could help.
>>  
>> Chris.
>>  
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: Michael Babcock 
>>> To:  
>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> 
>>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 12:09 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Latest garage band and automation
>>> 
>>> thanks Christopher; 
>>> found some good guides on making dubstep music on youtube with this, 
>>> and it’s what i wanted (though it’s not dubstep i’m making :D)
>>> Now time to figure out how to do it with vo.
>>> 
>>> Michael Babcock
>>> Your Blind Digital Marketing Partner.
>>> @payown on periscope and twitter.
>>>  http://yourownpay .com/
>>> 
 On Oct 1, 2015, at 8:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland < 
 clgillan...@gmail.com 
 > wrote:
 
 OK Mike, the name of the feature you're talking about, I'm not sure 
 what GB called it, but in audio terminology at least, the official 
 word for the term you're asking about is called "Sidechaining."
 
 Chris.
 
 - Original Message - From: "Michael" >>> >
 To: < 
 macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  >
 Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 11:33 PM
 Subject: Latest garage band and automation
 
 
 I'm doing some podcast work for myself and a client of mine, and for 
 both of the podcasts I'm doing, the material is brought in from other 
 sources such as recording in the field from an iOS device, or other 
 MP3 files on my computer.
 I remember several years ago, like five years ago, there was a handy 
 little feature in garage band or you could identify a track as either 
 the front or the back, or something like that, where the compression 
 would kick in and automatically fade the music behind the vocal track 
 of a podcast.
 From some basic   research I've done on google, apparently some of the 
 podcasting features have been removed from GarageBand. Is this the 
 case?
 Or, if I remember right the process of getting the music to 
 automatically be compressed with the vocals was called automation or 
 something like that, is it possible to still do this in GarageBand? If 
 not, is there a convenient way to do this?
 If it can be done, could someone let me know how they are doing it?
 Right now I manually fading the intro in with Amadeus, and then fading 
 it out into the vocal tracks. And doing the opposite with the Outtro  
>

Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Right, but just unenrolling doesn't put you back to the public build.  You have 
to install it.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Dionipher Presas Herrera 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 9:25 AM
  Subject: Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow


  i already unenroll my system from beta. 

On 02 Oct 2015, at 2:18 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Well, think about it this way.

What if, like me, you were using the machine for personal use, but then you 
got a job, and therefore decided to start using that system for work as it's 
more powerful than any of the other systems you have at that time in your 
posession.

OK, so now you got this system running a beta, but you wanna use it for 
work, and stop using it for personal.  What're you gonna do?  You gotta 
downgrade it.  Right?

I never said that I'd put a beta on the system for work purposes, unless my 
work required that I do so as part of their own testing.  Quit putting words in 
my mouth.  LOL!

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jeffrey Shockley 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 7:41 AM
  Subject: Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow


  Then, the next logical question would be, why are you putting, or why 
would you want to put, beta stuff like that on a machine that you are using to 
help train and support clients? I mean, I could understand it if it was a 
personal machine used for personal stuff.

On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:31 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


And the logical answer would be like someone in my position who uses 
their mac for work, and also trains people on the mac with Voiceover.  I can't 
exactly effectively support people when I'm running a beta.  What if something 
breaks or changes in a beta which isn't present in the official release.  I 
need things to be consistent when working with my clients.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Shawn Krasniuk
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 1:29 AM
  Subject: Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow


  If you're running the beta of 10.11.1, the logical question is why 
would you want to downgrade to 10.11.0? 


  Shawn
  Sent From My White MacBook
  Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
  Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
  Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
  Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com


On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:06 AM, Anders Holmberg  
wrote:


Hi! 
I can’t update to it for some reason.
Is this maybe because i have a public beta installed?


  30 sep. 2015 kl. 01:14 skrev Ray Foret Jr 
:


  I didn't need to be.  That's because they discussed it back in 
June:  remember. 




  Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,

  Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV 
user!


  Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for 
the blind built-in!!!



On Sep 29, 2015, at 5:14 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu 
 wrote:


Yeah, I know.  And the 10.11.1 beta is out for those in the 
program.  I guess it’s nice to know that they’ve hit a release landmark, but it 
couldn’t be clearer that OS X is getting one hell of a cold shoulder—not even 
mentioned at the keynote.

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Visit thi

Re: 10.11 and braille

[Devin Prater]

I sort of think Apple has something big planned though. I've read that they 
have their own patent for sort of elastic and shapable metal, so that the metal 
could form dots and such. I don't know if they'll do that, or just keep 
supporting braille displays, but the lack of new fixes in braille leads me to 
think that they'll do a tactile display for the iPhone, and the braille display 
things will just get in the way.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:15 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> BTW, I meant that tongue and cheek, I am in total agreement with you.  
> Apple’s braille support needs a lot of work and it’s inexcusable how bad it 
> is now.
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Oh dear.
>> Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at all.
>> If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the braille 
>> support will be better.
>> It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
>> Also for window eyes but its there.
>> Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense of 
>> navigating seems not to be able yet.
>> Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
>> Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
>> Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
>> Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
>> THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass this on 
>> to blablabla.
>> I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
>> Still optemistic though.
>> /A 
>>> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
>>> As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 10.11 
>>> while this is for me and others important.
>>> 
>>> Some first remarks:
>>> 1.It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t move 
>>> around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another program and 
>>> then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is needed here 
>>> perhaps?
>>> 
>>> 2.I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 are 
>>> used for capitals and some computer signs.
>>> When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application has 
>>> the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I can 
>>> hear it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
>>> I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
>>> position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the selected 
>>> program should appear on the display while switching from one program to 
>>> another.
>>> 
>>> 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, edit-fields 
>>> , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they are fully written 
>>> in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, aankruisvakje=checkbox, 
>>> keuzelijst=combobox …
>>> This should be represented with symbols like { }/{x} [ ] [x] ( )/(x) …
>>> I subpose that the controls like above, are  presented with this kind of 
>>> symbols when the interface-language is set on English.
>>> This is een old question I think but still not changed.
>>> 
>>> Any comments or reports to apple accessibility are very welcom
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> William Windels
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>> 
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Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

yes, that's what i did on my computer. since i did all best to report all the 
bugs that i met so i decided to unenroll my apple id to install the official 
copy of el capitan.
> On 02 Oct 2015, at 3:28 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Right, but just unenrolling doesn't put you back to the public build.  You 
> have to install it.
>  
> Chris.
>  
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Dionipher Presas Herrera 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 9:25 AM
>> Subject: Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow
>> 
>> i already unenroll my system from beta. 
>>> On 02 Oct 2015, at 2:18 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well, think about it this way.
>>>  
>>> What if, like me, you were using the machine for personal use, but then you 
>>> got a job, and therefore decided to start using that system for work as 
>>> it's more powerful than any of the other systems you have at that time in 
>>> your posession.
>>>  
>>> OK, so now you got this system running a beta, but you wanna use it for 
>>> work, and stop using it for personal.  What're you gonna do?  You gotta 
>>> downgrade it.  Right?
>>>  
>>> I never said that I'd put a beta on the system for work purposes, unless my 
>>> work required that I do so as part of their own testing.  Quit putting 
>>> words in my mouth.  LOL!
>>>  
>>> Chris.
>>>  
 - Original Message -
 From: Jeffrey Shockley 
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 7:41 AM
 Subject: Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow
 
 Then, the next logical question would be, why are you putting, or why 
 would you want to put, beta stuff like that on a machine that you are 
 using to help train and support clients? I mean, I could understand it if 
 it was a personal machine used for personal stuff.
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:31 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
> mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> And the logical answer would be like someone in my position who uses 
> their mac for work, and also trains people on the mac with Voiceover.  I 
> can't exactly effectively support people when I'm running a beta.  What 
> if something breaks or changes in a beta which isn't present in the 
> official release.  I need things to be consistent when working with my 
> clients.
>  
> Chris.
>  
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Shawn Krasniuk 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 1:29 AM
>> Subject: Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow
>> 
>> If you're running the beta of 10.11.1, the logical question is why would 
>> you want to downgrade to 10.11.0?
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:06 AM, Anders Holmberg >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> I can’t update to it for some reason.
>>> Is this maybe because i have a public beta installed?
>>> 
 30 sep. 2015 kl. 01:14 skrev Ray Foret Jr >>> >:
 
 I didn't need to be.  That's because they discussed it back in June:  
 remember.
 
 
 Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
 
 Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
 
 Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the 
 blind built-in!!!
 
> On Sep 29, 2015, at 5:14 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  > wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I know.  And the 10.11.1 beta is out for those in the program.  
> I guess it’s nice to know that they’ve hit a release landmark, but it 
> couldn’t be clearer that OS X is getting one hell of a cold 
> shoulder—not even mentioned at the keynote.
> 
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> <

Re: 10.11 and braille

[Devin Prater]

One thing I've always hated is that the Mac nor iOS has support for Italics. 
That really gets on my nerves how they just be lazy and treat every font change 
like just a separate element and not just show italics.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:09 AM, Scott Davert  wrote:
> 
> No, it's not just you. Braille support is still sub-par in many cases
> on OSX, with bugs I've reported 2 years ago still not fixed. Because I
> only have one mac, and am heavily dependent on it, I cannot put betas
> on it or risk upgrading because I'm afraid of the bugs I may
> encounter. I'm still running Yosemite, and am a bit reluctant to do
> this upgrade because I'm so dependent on braille.
> 
> Scott
> 
>> On 10/2/15, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> Maybe not but we don’t lie about it either.:)  That whole VW / AUDI /
>> PORSCHE thing cracks me up especially from a country that claims to be so
>> green.
>> 
>> I don’t know about the braille literacy thing either to be fair.  Now this
>> may have changed, I fully admit when I was in public school we still had
>> public schools that were worth while and they hadn’t degraded to the point
>> they are now but I as well as all the blind folks in my state at least
>> received fantastic braille training as well as mobility and each blind
>> student received a full free ride to college up to the cost of the degree if
>> it was offered in our state school or full cost if the degree was only
>> available outside the state or at certain universities like special
>> technical degrees for example.  Bringing this back on topic as blind
>> students we were also encouraged to work with the computers which at the
>> time were Apple 2 series.  I also had a blind teacher, in the states I
>> believe they are called itinerate teachers or resource teachers who work
>> with blind and other disabled students to augment the class room.  Maybe
>> things have changed but at least when I went to school we had a pretty good
>> deal?  I see a lot of European blind engineers on different lists so I
>> suspect you have something similarly forward thinking available across the
>> pond?
>> 
>> Oh and to the original poster and you, I’m in total agreement.  I’m not sure
>> if the problem is that Apple doesn’t produce the hardware, I don’t suspect
>> that it’s but what ever the reason the braille support is lacking and
>> seriously lacking at that.  What’s interesting is the support is quite a bit
>> better on the phone.  Braille at least with the focus 40 I’m using on the
>> iPhone isn’t half bad, on the Mac though it’s just about unusable.  Could be
>> the guy behind the keyboard (pointing at myself) but others have agreed so I
>> don’t think it’s just me.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:23 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Nah Anders, I feel your pain completely.  Even iOS has acceptable braille
>>> support, so it’s not as if they couldn’t port that over to OS X.  Clearly
>>> nobody at Apple uses or cares about braille.  Probably because it doesn’t
>>> make them any money from hardware sales.  Kinda tragic.
>>> 
>>> Hey Scott, you can stop trolling now.  The grand old US of A isn’t exactly
>>> known for its braille literacy or deep regard for environmentalism either.
>>> :)
>>> 
>>> --
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>> 
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F

Re: 10.11 and braille

[Mary Otten]

For whatever the reason, I simply don't think Apple has higher the expertise 
they need to get braille right. I think this notion of them doing something 
special with braille on the screen is nonsense. If I'm wrong and proven wrong, 
so be it. But I really do believe the problem is they don't know how to get it 
right, and they haven't found the person who can help them do it. That seem 
sad, given their money, but there you go.
.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:31 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> I sort of think Apple has something big planned though. I've read that they 
> have their own patent for sort of elastic and shapable metal, so that the 
> metal could form dots and such. I don't know if they'll do that, or just keep 
> supporting braille displays, but the lack of new fixes in braille leads me to 
> think that they'll do a tactile display for the iPhone, and the braille 
> display things will just get in the way.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:15 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> BTW, I meant that tongue and cheek, I am in total agreement with you.  
>> Apple’s braille support needs a lot of work and it’s inexcusable how bad it 
>> is now.
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Oh dear.
>>> Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at 
>>> all.
>>> If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the braille 
>>> support will be better.
>>> It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
>>> Also for window eyes but its there.
>>> Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense of 
>>> navigating seems not to be able yet.
>>> Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
>>> Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
>>> Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
>>> Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
>>> THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass this 
>>> on to blablabla.
>>> I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
>>> Still optemistic though.
>>> /A 
 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
 
 Hello all,
 I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
 As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 10.11 
 while this is for me and others important.
 
 Some first remarks:
 1.It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t move 
 around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another program and 
 then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is needed here 
 perhaps?
 
 2.I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 are 
 used for capitals and some computer signs.
 When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application has 
 the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I can 
 hear it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
 I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
 position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the selected 
 program should appear on the display while switching from one program to 
 another.
 
 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, 
 edit-fields , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they are 
 fully written in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, aankruisvakje=checkbox, 
 keuzelijst=combobox …
 This should be represented with symbols like { }/{x} [ ] [x] ( )/(x) …
 I subpose that the controls like above, are  presented with this kind of 
 symbols when the interface-language is set on English.
 This is een old question I think but still not changed.
 
 Any comments or reports to apple accessibility are very welcom
 
 Kind regards,
 William Windels
 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Mary Otten]

I haven't seen any statistics lately, but I have heard in the past that Europe 
had a much higher literacy rate for Braille than   we do. That is not 
surprising given the cost of the hardware, and the fact that, at least as far 
as I understand it, it is subsidized, so that all the blind people who need one 
can get a display at no cost in many European countries. We certainly cannot do 
that here.
Mary

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 5:23 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Nah Anders, I feel your pain completely.  Even iOS has acceptable braille 
> support, so it’s not as if they couldn’t port that over to OS X.  Clearly 
> nobody at Apple uses or cares about braille.  Probably because it doesn’t 
> make them any money from hardware sales.  Kinda tragic.
> 
> Hey Scott, you can stop trolling now.  The grand old US of A isn’t exactly 
> known for its braille literacy or deep regard for environmentalism either. :)
> 
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Re: Major data breach at Experian impacting T-Mobile customers

[Mary Otten]

They must have been literally swamped with calls. When I called their main 
customer service, after finding that my local store knew nothing, I was told 
that hold times were longer than usual, so I left my number and ask to be 
called back. They never called me back. But I found something online and signed 
up for the free two-year identity theft monitoring. I don't have a lot of faith 
in it. But it beats nothing.
Mary

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:05 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> When I heard about it I doubt the average customer service rep new anything 
> about it.  It has just broken as a leaked report on CNBC last night.  Today 
> though I bet they will have an answer.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 5:30 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, Scott. I hope people have better luck with t-mo then I did. They 
>> were clue free when I called them just now. I mean totally clue free.
>> Mary
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 1:46 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thought this was important enough to bring up here in case anyone activated 
>>> service on T-Mobile recently.
>>> 
>>> Hi, it’s breaking on the wires now, CNBC is reporting that Experian, one of 
>>> the large credit bureaus has experienced a data breach.  While the consumer 
>>> division of Experian is claimed to be unimpacted the company states that a 
>>> business division that processes applications for T-Mobile was involved.  
>>> You’ll want to call T-Mobile and find out who was involved and if you were 
>>> have them pay for identity theft monitoring.  You may have to fight with 
>>> Experian directly.  I have no more details yet this just appeared with in 
>>> the last 5 minutes on CNBC.
>>> 
>>> Watch out for your data if you’re a t-mobile customer.  Also, it’s 
>>> important to note this isn’t at this point appearing to be a failure on 
>>> t-mobile’s part but rather a failure of security at Experian, a totally 
>>> different company.  Be careful out there.
>>> 
>>> Scott
>>> 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Scott Granados]

I’m not sure about that either because I know they do hire good quality people 
even for accessibility efforts so I’m not sure it’s that simple.  I heard about 
the patent for the reactive metal but I can’t imagine that being practical 
unless it has some benefit for the sited as well.  
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 9:35 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> For whatever the reason, I simply don't think Apple has higher the expertise 
> they need to get braille right. I think this notion of them doing something 
> special with braille on the screen is nonsense. If I'm wrong and proven 
> wrong, so be it. But I really do believe the problem is they don't know how 
> to get it right, and they haven't found the person who can help them do it. 
> That seem sad, given their money, but there you go.
> .
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:31 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
>> 
>> I sort of think Apple has something big planned though. I've read that they 
>> have their own patent for sort of elastic and shapable metal, so that the 
>> metal could form dots and such. I don't know if they'll do that, or just 
>> keep supporting braille displays, but the lack of new fixes in braille leads 
>> me to think that they'll do a tactile display for the iPhone, and the 
>> braille display things will just get in the way.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:15 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> BTW, I meant that tongue and cheek, I am in total agreement with you.  
>>> Apple’s braille support needs a lot of work and it’s inexcusable how bad it 
>>> is now.
>>> 
 On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
 
 Hi!
 Oh dear.
 Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at 
 all.
 If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the 
 braille support will be better.
 It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
 Also for window eyes but its there.
 Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense of 
 navigating seems not to be able yet.
 Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
 Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
 Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
 Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
 THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass this 
 on to blablabla.
 I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
 Still optemistic though.
 /A 
> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
> 
> Hello all,
> I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
> As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 10.11 
> while this is for me and others important.
> 
> Some first remarks:
> 1.It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t 
> move around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another 
> program and then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is 
> needed here perhaps?
> 
> 2.I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 
> are used for capitals and some computer signs.
> When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application has 
> the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I can 
> hear it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
> I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
> position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the selected 
> program should appear on the display while switching from one program to 
> another.
> 
> 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, 
> edit-fields , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they are 
> fully written in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, aankruisvakje=checkbox, 
> keuzelijst=combobox …
> This should be represented with symbols like { }/{x} [ ] [x] ( )/(x) …
> I subpose that the controls like above, are  presented with this kind of 
> symbols when the interface-language is set on English.
> This is een old question I think but still not changed.
> 
> Any comments or reports to apple accessibility are very welcom
> 
> Kind regards,
> William Windels
> 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Scott Granados]

Again, we do this in my state.  Blind persons can get what ever adaptive 
equipment especially for work.  This could be radically different state to 
state though.
You don’t need braille displays though to be literate in braille and teach / 
learn.  I imagine it helps but they definitely didn’t exist when I was a 
student.
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 9:40 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I haven't seen any statistics lately, but I have heard in the past that 
> Europe had a much higher literacy rate for Braille than   we do. That is not 
> surprising given the cost of the hardware, and the fact that, at least as far 
> as I understand it, it is subsidized, so that all the blind people who need 
> one can get a display at no cost in many European countries. We certainly 
> cannot do that here.
> Mary
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 5:23 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Nah Anders, I feel your pain completely.  Even iOS has acceptable braille 
>> support, so it’s not as if they couldn’t port that over to OS X.  Clearly 
>> nobody at Apple uses or cares about braille.  Probably because it doesn’t 
>> make them any money from hardware sales.  Kinda tragic.
>> 
>> Hey Scott, you can stop trolling now.  The grand old US of A isn’t exactly 
>> known for its braille literacy or deep regard for environmentalism either. :)
>> 
>> -- 
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Devin Prater]

Perhaps they don't really know that a problem exists? But surely braille users 
have commented, so maybe they just don't know what to do. But Apple has 
patented that flexible metal, so they could eventually do it. Then again, 
perhaps they mean for us to just type on the keyboard and use braille for just 
documents and such, as they do have a "status cell" thing for fok™ changes and 
misspelled words. But I still think the status cell thing is just not all that 
great. I'd prefer to read on the display the italics symbol, and maybe 
[misspelled] or a shortened version of that, instead of having some of my 
reading room taken up by blackness most of the time.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:35 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> For whatever the reason, I simply don't think Apple has higher the expertise 
> they need to get braille right. I think this notion of them doing something 
> special with braille on the screen is nonsense. If I'm wrong and proven 
> wrong, so be it. But I really do believe the problem is they don't know how 
> to get it right, and they haven't found the person who can help them do it. 
> That seem sad, given their money, but there you go.
> .
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:31 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
>> 
>> I sort of think Apple has something big planned though. I've read that they 
>> have their own patent for sort of elastic and shapable metal, so that the 
>> metal could form dots and such. I don't know if they'll do that, or just 
>> keep supporting braille displays, but the lack of new fixes in braille leads 
>> me to think that they'll do a tactile display for the iPhone, and the 
>> braille display things will just get in the way.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:15 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> BTW, I meant that tongue and cheek, I am in total agreement with you.  
>>> Apple’s braille support needs a lot of work and it’s inexcusable how bad it 
>>> is now.
>>> 
 On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
 
 Hi!
 Oh dear.
 Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at 
 all.
 If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the 
 braille support will be better.
 It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
 Also for window eyes but its there.
 Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense of 
 navigating seems not to be able yet.
 Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
 Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
 Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
 Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
 THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass this 
 on to blablabla.
 I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
 Still optemistic though.
 /A 
> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
> 
> Hello all,
> I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
> As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 10.11 
> while this is for me and others important.
> 
> Some first remarks:
> 1.It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t 
> move around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another 
> program and then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is 
> needed here perhaps?
> 
> 2.I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 
> are used for capitals and some computer signs.
> When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application has 
> the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I can 
> hear it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
> I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
> position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the selected 
> program should appear on the display while switching from one program to 
> another.
> 
> 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, 
> edit-fields , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they are 
> fully written in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, aankruisvakje=checkbox, 
> keuzelijst=combobox …
> This should be represented with symbols like { }/{x} [ ] [x] ( )/(x) …
> I subpose that the controls like above, are  presented with this kind of 
> symbols when the interface-language is set on English.
> This is een old question I think but still not changed.
> 
> Any comments or reports to apple accessibility are very welcom
> 
> Kind regards,
> William Windels
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvi

Re: my question to the manager of local apple store yesterday

[Scott Granados]

George, stop being logical, that’s where you went wrong.:)

I totally agree.  It’s the Al Gorr thing all over again.  That fat suit used to 
love telling us what we should and shouldn’t do all while flying around in a 
beautiful Gulf Stream and with an average home utility bill 50 times that of 
the average person.  What’s the expression?  Do as I say, not as I do.

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 9:23 AM, george b  wrote:
> 
> Well,
> 
> I asked since apple is such a "green" company.  As I was rubbing my hand 
> across the new solid oak tables, and work spaces I asked, " how many trees do 
> you think apple had cut down to do this in all their stors", I got no answer
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Granados
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 05:39
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: 10.11 and braille
> 
> Maybe not but we don’t lie about it either.:)  That whole VW / AUDI / PORSCHE 
> thing cracks me up especially from a country that claims to be so green.
> 
> I don’t know about the braille literacy thing either to be fair.  Now this 
> may have changed, I fully admit when I was in public school we still had 
> public schools that were worth while and they hadn’t degraded to the point 
> they are now but I as well as all the blind folks in my state at least 
> received fantastic braille training as well as mobility and each blind 
> student received a full free ride to college up to the cost of the degree if 
> it was offered in our state school or full cost if the degree was only 
> available outside the state or at certain universities like special technical 
> degrees for example.  Bringing this back on topic as blind students we were 
> also encouraged to work with the computers which at the time were Apple 2 
> series.  I also had a blind teacher, in the states I believe they are called 
> itinerate teachers or resource teachers who work with blind and other 
> disabled students to augment the class room.  Maybe things have changed but 
> at least when I went to school we had a pretty good deal?  I see a lot of 
> European blind engineers on different lists so I suspect you have something 
> similarly forward thinking available across the pond?
> 
> Oh and to the original poster and you, I’m in total agreement.  I’m not sure 
> if the problem is that Apple doesn’t produce the hardware, I don’t suspect 
> that it’s but what ever the reason the braille support is lacking and 
> seriously lacking at that.  What’s interesting is the support is quite a bit 
> better on the phone.  Braille at least with the focus 40 I’m using on the 
> iPhone isn’t half bad, on the Mac though it’s just about unusable.  Could be 
> the guy behind the keyboard (pointing at myself) but others have agreed so I 
> don’t think it’s just me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:23 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Nah Anders, I feel your pain completely.  Even iOS has acceptable braille 
>> support, so it’s not as if they couldn’t port that over to OS X.  Clearly 
>> nobody at Apple uses or cares about braille.  Probably because it doesn’t 
>> make them any money from hardware sales.  Kinda tragic.
>> 
>> Hey Scott, you can stop trolling now.  The grand old US of A isn’t exactly 
>> known for its braille literacy or deep regard for environmentalism either. :)
>> 
>> -- 
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To p

Re: interesting observation with safari 9

[Mike Arrigo]

Interestingly, it does on some sites still, but not others, going to 
wait a little while before upgrading to el capitan I think.

Original message:
That seems to be a bug when running Safari 9 under Yosemite. I’m 
running El Capitan with Safari 9, and VO announces clickable for me.



On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:54 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:


Hey everyone, still using version 10.10 of the operating system, but I 
did install the safari 9 update, and noticed something interesting. Not 
sure if this is a bug or by design, but, in many cases, the "clickable" 
attribute is no longer announced. These are elements that function as 
links or buttons, but are instead created using java script. Personally 
I wish web developers would just use the standard link and button 
elements instead of trying to be fancy, but I guess we're stuck with 
it. So, if you are using safari 9, you may have to pay a bit more 
attention in order to guess if something can be clicked or not.



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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Devin Prater]

Sure. They could make the home button into a sort of reactive button, where you 
would press on the raised metal button, it would click, 3d touch, and would 
depress like a regular button. Tellephone keys, little keyboard keys for 
typing, feelable icons, it'd all make sense, especially sense 3d touch is 
involved.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:44 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I’m not sure about that either because I know they do hire good quality 
> people even for accessibility efforts so I’m not sure it’s that simple.  I 
> heard about the patent for the reactive metal but I can’t imagine that being 
> practical unless it has some benefit for the sited as well.  
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 9:35 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> For whatever the reason, I simply don't think Apple has higher the expertise 
>> they need to get braille right. I think this notion of them doing something 
>> special with braille on the screen is nonsense. If I'm wrong and proven 
>> wrong, so be it. But I really do believe the problem is they don't know how 
>> to get it right, and they haven't found the person who can help them do it. 
>> That seem sad, given their money, but there you go.
>> .
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:31 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I sort of think Apple has something big planned though. I've read that they 
>>> have their own patent for sort of elastic and shapable metal, so that the 
>>> metal could form dots and such. I don't know if they'll do that, or just 
>>> keep supporting braille displays, but the lack of new fixes in braille 
>>> leads me to think that they'll do a tactile display for the iPhone, and the 
>>> braille display things will just get in the way.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:15 AM, Scott Granados  
 wrote:
 
 BTW, I meant that tongue and cheek, I am in total agreement with you.  
 Apple’s braille support needs a lot of work and it’s inexcusable how bad 
 it is now.
 
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Oh dear.
> Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at 
> all.
> If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the 
> braille support will be better.
> It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
> Also for window eyes but its there.
> Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense of 
> navigating seems not to be able yet.
> Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
> Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
> Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
> Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
> THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass this 
> on to blablabla.
> I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
> Still optemistic though.
> /A 
>> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
>> As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 10.11 
>> while this is for me and others important.
>> 
>> Some first remarks:
>> 1.It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t 
>> move around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another 
>> program and then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is 
>> needed here perhaps?
>> 
>> 2.I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 
>> are used for capitals and some computer signs.
>> When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application 
>> has the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I 
>> can hear it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
>> I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
>> position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the selected 
>> program should appear on the display while switching from one program to 
>> another.
>> 
>> 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, 
>> edit-fields , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they 
>> are fully written in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, 
>> aankruisvakje=checkbox, keuzelijst=combobox …
>> This should be represented with symbols like { }/{x} [ ] [x] ( )/(x) …
>> I subpose that the controls like above, are  presented with this kind of 
>> symbols when the interface-language is set on English.
>> This is een old question I think but still not changed.
>> 
>> Any comments or reports to apple accessibility are very welcom
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> William Windels
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>>

Re: 10.11 and braille

[Devin Prater]

Lol a phone would be too small for real porn application, maybe the iPad would 
be better. But this is metal, it couldn't really show too much tactilly.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:57 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Let alone the porn possibilities!
> 
> :)
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 9:49 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
>> 
>> Sure. They could make the home button into a sort of reactive button, where 
>> you would press on the raised metal button, it would click, 3d touch, and 
>> would depress like a regular button. Tellephone keys, little keyboard keys 
>> for typing, feelable icons, it'd all make sense, especially sense 3d touch 
>> is involved.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:44 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’m not sure about that either because I know they do hire good quality 
>>> people even for accessibility efforts so I’m not sure it’s that simple.  I 
>>> heard about the patent for the reactive metal but I can’t imagine that 
>>> being practical unless it has some benefit for the sited as well.  
 On Oct 2, 2015, at 9:35 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 For whatever the reason, I simply don't think Apple has higher the 
 expertise they need to get braille right. I think this notion of them 
 doing something special with braille on the screen is nonsense. If I'm 
 wrong and proven wrong, so be it. But I really do believe the problem is 
 they don't know how to get it right, and they haven't found the person who 
 can help them do it. That seem sad, given their money, but there you go.
 .
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:31 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> I sort of think Apple has something big planned though. I've read that 
> they have their own patent for sort of elastic and shapable metal, so 
> that the metal could form dots and such. I don't know if they'll do that, 
> or just keep supporting braille displays, but the lack of new fixes in 
> braille leads me to think that they'll do a tactile display for the 
> iPhone, and the braille display things will just get in the way.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:15 AM, Scott Granados  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> BTW, I meant that tongue and cheek, I am in total agreement with you.  
>> Apple’s braille support needs a lot of work and it’s inexcusable how bad 
>> it is now.
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Oh dear.
>>> Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille 
>>> at all.
>>> If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the 
>>> braille support will be better.
>>> It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
>>> Also for window eyes but its there.
>>> Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense 
>>> of navigating seems not to be able yet.
>>> Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
>>> Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
>>> Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
>>> Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
>>> THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass 
>>> this on to blablabla.
>>> I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
>>> Still optemistic though.
>>> /A 
 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels 
 :
 
 Hello all,
 I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
 As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 
 10.11 while this is for me and others important.
 
 Some first remarks:
 1.It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t 
 move around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another 
 program and then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is 
 needed here perhaps?
 
 2.I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 
 are used for capitals and some computer signs.
 When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application 
 has the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, 
 I can hear it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
 I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
 position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the 
 selected program should appear on the display while switching from one 
 program to another.
 
 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, 
 edit-fields , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they 
 are fully written in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, 
 aankruisvakje=checkbox, keuzelijst=combobox …

Re: 10.11 and braille

[Scott Granados]

Let alone the porn possibilities!

:)

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 9:49 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> Sure. They could make the home button into a sort of reactive button, where 
> you would press on the raised metal button, it would click, 3d touch, and 
> would depress like a regular button. Tellephone keys, little keyboard keys 
> for typing, feelable icons, it'd all make sense, especially sense 3d touch is 
> involved.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:44 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I’m not sure about that either because I know they do hire good quality 
>> people even for accessibility efforts so I’m not sure it’s that simple.  I 
>> heard about the patent for the reactive metal but I can’t imagine that being 
>> practical unless it has some benefit for the sited as well.  
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 9:35 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> For whatever the reason, I simply don't think Apple has higher the 
>>> expertise they need to get braille right. I think this notion of them doing 
>>> something special with braille on the screen is nonsense. If I'm wrong and 
>>> proven wrong, so be it. But I really do believe the problem is they don't 
>>> know how to get it right, and they haven't found the person who can help 
>>> them do it. That seem sad, given their money, but there you go.
>>> .
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:31 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
 
 I sort of think Apple has something big planned though. I've read that 
 they have their own patent for sort of elastic and shapable metal, so that 
 the metal could form dots and such. I don't know if they'll do that, or 
 just keep supporting braille displays, but the lack of new fixes in 
 braille leads me to think that they'll do a tactile display for the 
 iPhone, and the braille display things will just get in the way.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:15 AM, Scott Granados  
> wrote:
> 
> BTW, I meant that tongue and cheek, I am in total agreement with you.  
> Apple’s braille support needs a lot of work and it’s inexcusable how bad 
> it is now.
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Oh dear.
>> Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at 
>> all.
>> If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the 
>> braille support will be better.
>> It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
>> Also for window eyes but its there.
>> Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense 
>> of navigating seems not to be able yet.
>> Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
>> Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
>> Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
>> Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
>> THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass 
>> this on to blablabla.
>> I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
>> Still optemistic though.
>> /A 
>>> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
>>> As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 
>>> 10.11 while this is for me and others important.
>>> 
>>> Some first remarks:
>>> 1.It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t 
>>> move around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another 
>>> program and then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is 
>>> needed here perhaps?
>>> 
>>> 2.I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 
>>> are used for capitals and some computer signs.
>>> When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application 
>>> has the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I 
>>> can hear it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
>>> I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
>>> position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the 
>>> selected program should appear on the display while switching from one 
>>> program to another.
>>> 
>>> 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, 
>>> edit-fields , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they 
>>> are fully written in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, 
>>> aankruisvakje=checkbox, keuzelijst=combobox …
>>> This should be represented with symbols like { }/{x} [ ] [x] ( )/(x) …
>>> I subpose that the controls like above, are  presented with this kind 
>>> of symbols when the interface-language is set on English.
>>> This is een old question I think but still not changed.
>>> 
>>> Any comments or reports to apple accessibil

RE: Major data breach at Experian impacting T-Mobile customers

[george b]

I was given a web site to go to  and ifyou want it let me know

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Mary Otten
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 06:44
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Major data breach at Experian impacting T-Mobile customers

They must have been literally swamped with calls. When I called their main 
customer service, after finding that my local store knew nothing, I was told 
that hold times were longer than usual, so I left my number and ask to be 
called back. They never called me back. But I found something online and signed 
up for the free two-year identity theft monitoring. I don't have a lot of faith 
in it. But it beats nothing.
Mary

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:05 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> When I heard about it I doubt the average customer service rep new anything 
> about it.  It has just broken as a leaked report on CNBC last night.  Today 
> though I bet they will have an answer.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 5:30 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, Scott. I hope people have better luck with t-mo then I did. They 
>> were clue free when I called them just now. I mean totally clue free.
>> Mary
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 1:46 PM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thought this was important enough to bring up here in case anyone activated 
>>> service on T-Mobile recently.
>>> 
>>> Hi, it’s breaking on the wires now, CNBC is reporting that Experian, one of 
>>> the large credit bureaus has experienced a data breach.  While the consumer 
>>> division of Experian is claimed to be unimpacted the company states that a 
>>> business division that processes applications for T-Mobile was involved.  
>>> You’ll want to call T-Mobile and find out who was involved and if you were 
>>> have them pay for identity theft monitoring.  You may have to fight with 
>>> Experian directly.  I have no more details yet this just appeared with in 
>>> the last 5 minutes on CNBC.
>>> 
>>> Watch out for your data if you’re a t-mobile customer.  Also, it’s 
>>> important to note this isn’t at this point appearing to be a failure on 
>>> t-mobile’s part but rather a failure of security at Experian, a totally 
>>> different company.  Be careful out there.
>>> 
>>> Scott
>>> 
>>> -- 
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Re: Heart Rate Monitor on Apple Watch

[Terje Strømberg]

Yes. Good for training. Nothing about the pulse monitor accuracy compared to 
the professional on the treadmill at the fitness center. They said that the 
Apple Watch was the only one that was giving correct heart beat monitoring 
every time.

Take care

2. okt. 2015 kl. 14:44 skrev Scott Granados :

Did they happen to compare the fitbit as well?  I have one and am just curious.

> On Oct 1, 2015, at 11:18 PM, Terje Strømberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On tv there was a test of several smart watches. Aplle Watch Heart Beat 
> Monitor was the only one that showed the correct pulse with only the clock 
> armband attached. The Garmin sport watch needed a belt around the belly. Nice 
> to know that the heart beat monitor works correct. Gives an impression of 
> quality electronic design. Although the Apple Watch was the most expensive, 
> it was the smart watch you should by if you needed one. 
> 
> The heart beat test was done at a fitness center with expers equipment as a 
> key book i.e. paralelle comparism.
> 
> Take care
> 
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help with start up disk almost full

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

hello everyone can somebody help me adjust my hard disk i accidentally lower my 
hard drive to 100 gb now my computer is saying that my start up disk is almost 
ful. but i do have 512 gb disk. i can't adjust it on my disk utility from el 
capitan now. thanks for the help

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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Mary Otten]

Well, obviously none of us knows the reason why braille especially on the Mac 
is not very good. I actually don't really think the braille on the screen of a 
device is going to be all that wonderful or practical. The problem isn't the 
display. It is the support  for braille. I wish Apple could hire that guy 
Marcos who apparently was very instrumental in making the jaws braille support 
as good as it is. They just need somebody who really gets it.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:44 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I’m not sure about that either because I know they do hire good quality 
> people even for accessibility efforts so I’m not sure it’s that simple.  I 
> heard about the patent for the reactive metal but I can’t imagine that being 
> practical unless it has some benefit for the sited as well.  
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 9:35 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> For whatever the reason, I simply don't think Apple has higher the expertise 
>> they need to get braille right. I think this notion of them doing something 
>> special with braille on the screen is nonsense. If I'm wrong and proven 
>> wrong, so be it. But I really do believe the problem is they don't know how 
>> to get it right, and they haven't found the person who can help them do it. 
>> That seem sad, given their money, but there you go.
>> .
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:31 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I sort of think Apple has something big planned though. I've read that they 
>>> have their own patent for sort of elastic and shapable metal, so that the 
>>> metal could form dots and such. I don't know if they'll do that, or just 
>>> keep supporting braille displays, but the lack of new fixes in braille 
>>> leads me to think that they'll do a tactile display for the iPhone, and the 
>>> braille display things will just get in the way.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:15 AM, Scott Granados  
 wrote:
 
 BTW, I meant that tongue and cheek, I am in total agreement with you.  
 Apple’s braille support needs a lot of work and it’s inexcusable how bad 
 it is now.
 
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Oh dear.
> Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at 
> all.
> If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the 
> braille support will be better.
> It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
> Also for window eyes but its there.
> Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense of 
> navigating seems not to be able yet.
> Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
> Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
> Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
> Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
> THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass this 
> on to blablabla.
> I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
> Still optemistic though.
> /A 
>> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
>> As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 10.11 
>> while this is for me and others important.
>> 
>> Some first remarks:
>> 1.It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t 
>> move around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another 
>> program and then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is 
>> needed here perhaps?
>> 
>> 2.I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 
>> are used for capitals and some computer signs.
>> When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application 
>> has the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I 
>> can hear it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
>> I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
>> position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the selected 
>> program should appear on the display while switching from one program to 
>> another.
>> 
>> 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, 
>> edit-fields , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they 
>> are fully written in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, 
>> aankruisvakje=checkbox, keuzelijst=combobox …
>> This should be represented with symbols like { }/{x} [ ] [x] ( )/(x) …
>> I subpose that the controls like above, are  presented with this kind of 
>> symbols when the interface-language is set on English.
>> This is een old question I think but still not changed.
>> 
>> Any comments or reports to apple accessibility are very welcom
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> William Windels

Re: 10.11 and braille

[Mary Otten]

I have to admit to living in the Stone Age here, but didn't some of that stuff 
like bold and italics and how it is represented change with the implementation 
of u e be?
Mary

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:45 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps they don't really know that a problem exists? But surely braille 
> users have commented, so maybe they just don't know what to do. But Apple has 
> patented that flexible metal, so they could eventually do it. Then again, 
> perhaps they mean for us to just type on the keyboard and use braille for 
> just documents and such, as they do have a "status cell" thing for fok™ 
> changes and misspelled words. But I still think the status cell thing is just 
> not all that great. I'd prefer to read on the display the italics symbol, and 
> maybe [misspelled] or a shortened version of that, instead of having some of 
> my reading room taken up by blackness most of the time.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:35 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> For whatever the reason, I simply don't think Apple has higher the expertise 
>> they need to get braille right. I think this notion of them doing something 
>> special with braille on the screen is nonsense. If I'm wrong and proven 
>> wrong, so be it. But I really do believe the problem is they don't know how 
>> to get it right, and they haven't found the person who can help them do it. 
>> That seem sad, given their money, but there you go.
>> .
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:31 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I sort of think Apple has something big planned though. I've read that they 
>>> have their own patent for sort of elastic and shapable metal, so that the 
>>> metal could form dots and such. I don't know if they'll do that, or just 
>>> keep supporting braille displays, but the lack of new fixes in braille 
>>> leads me to think that they'll do a tactile display for the iPhone, and the 
>>> braille display things will just get in the way.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:15 AM, Scott Granados  
 wrote:
 
 BTW, I meant that tongue and cheek, I am in total agreement with you.  
 Apple’s braille support needs a lot of work and it’s inexcusable how bad 
 it is now.
 
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Oh dear.
> Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at 
> all.
> If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the 
> braille support will be better.
> It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
> Also for window eyes but its there.
> Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense of 
> navigating seems not to be able yet.
> Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
> Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
> Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
> Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
> THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass this 
> on to blablabla.
> I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
> Still optemistic though.
> /A 
>> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
>> As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 10.11 
>> while this is for me and others important.
>> 
>> Some first remarks:
>> 1.It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t 
>> move around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another 
>> program and then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is 
>> needed here perhaps?
>> 
>> 2.I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 
>> are used for capitals and some computer signs.
>> When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application 
>> has the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I 
>> can hear it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
>> I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
>> position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the selected 
>> program should appear on the display while switching from one program to 
>> another.
>> 
>> 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, 
>> edit-fields , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they 
>> are fully written in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, 
>> aankruisvakje=checkbox, keuzelijst=combobox …
>> This should be represented with symbols like { }/{x} [ ] [x] ( )/(x) …
>> I subpose that the controls like above, are  presented with this kind of 
>> symbols when the interface-language is set on English.
>> This is een old question I think but still not 

Re: 10.11 and braille

[Mary Otten]

Out here, you have to really prove that you need a display in order to get one. 
And of course, if you're not employed, or not a student who can show a definite 
need for a braille display, as so many or not, then forget it. You can't get 
help with anything. I think that is not the case in Europe.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:46 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Again, we do this in my state.  Blind persons can get what ever adaptive 
> equipment especially for work.  This could be radically different state to 
> state though.
> You don’t need braille displays though to be literate in braille and teach / 
> learn.  I imagine it helps but they definitely didn’t exist when I was a 
> student.
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 9:40 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> I haven't seen any statistics lately, but I have heard in the past that 
>> Europe had a much higher literacy rate for Braille than   we do. That is not 
>> surprising given the cost of the hardware, and the fact that, at least as 
>> far as I understand it, it is subsidized, so that all the blind people who 
>> need one can get a display at no cost in many European countries. We 
>> certainly cannot do that here.
>> Mary
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 5:23 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Nah Anders, I feel your pain completely.  Even iOS has acceptable braille 
>>> support, so it’s not as if they couldn’t port that over to OS X.  Clearly 
>>> nobody at Apple uses or cares about braille.  Probably because it doesn’t 
>>> make them any money from hardware sales.  Kinda tragic.
>>> 
>>> Hey Scott, you can stop trolling now.  The grand old US of A isn’t exactly 
>>> known for its braille literacy or deep regard for environmentalism either. 
>>> :)
>>> 
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Re: help with start up disk almost full

[Jeffrey Shockley]

Hi,
The easiest thing would be that I can think of is to boot into Recovery Mode 
and open Disc Utility from there, and just the partition there. It just might 
work. :)
Hope this helps,
Jeffrey
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
> wrote:
> 
> hello everyone can somebody help me adjust my hard disk i accidentally lower 
> my hard drive to 100 gb now my computer is saying that my start up disk is 
> almost ful. but i do have 512 gb disk. i can't adjust it on my disk utility 
> from el capitan now. thanks for the help
> 
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Re: How do you open an attachment?

[Jamie Pauls]

Let's assume that the attachment you want to open is a word document. Here is 
what I do. One. Open the message using the return key. Two. Interact with the 
text in the message.  Three. Navigate to the image of the attached document 
using the arrow keys. Four. Press VO space to open a menu of options. Finally, 
use VO plus the down arrow key to move to the menu item that says open 
attachment.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 12:42 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
> wrote:
> 
> you should download the attachment first. then go to your download folder.
>> On 02 Oct 2015, at 4:25 AM, Marie Lyons  wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve gone through the menu in mail on myIMAC.  I can’t find a selection for 
>> opening an attachment.  I have also checked the v/o help menu but don’t find 
>> anything.  Appreciate the help.
>> 
>> Marie
>> 
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Re: How do you open an attachment?

[Alex Hall]

What I do is cmd-y on the message, without opening it. That shows a preview of 
the message's attachment, so you can read it right there. If you need to open 
it, there's a button in the preview window to open the file in its default 
application.
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 11:11, Jamie Pauls  wrote:
> 
> Let's assume that the attachment you want to open is a word document. Here is 
> what I do. One. Open the message using the return key. Two. Interact with the 
> text in the message.  Three. Navigate to the image of the attached document 
> using the arrow keys. Four. Press VO space to open a menu of options. 
> Finally, use VO plus the down arrow key to move to the menu item that says 
> open attachment.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 12:42 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> you should download the attachment first. then go to your download folder.
>>> On 02 Oct 2015, at 4:25 AM, Marie Lyons  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’ve gone through the menu in mail on myIMAC.  I can’t find a selection for 
>>> opening an attachment.  I have also checked the v/o help menu but don’t 
>>> find anything.  Appreciate the help.
>>> 
>>> Marie
>>> 
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Re: help with start up disk almost full

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

ok, i'll try
> On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:04 PM, Jeffrey Shockley  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> The easiest thing would be that I can think of is to boot into Recovery Mode 
> and open Disc Utility from there, and just the partition there. It just might 
> work. :)
> Hope this helps,
> Jeffrey
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> hello everyone can somebody help me adjust my hard disk i accidentally lower 
>> my hard drive to 100 gb now my computer is saying that my start up disk is 
>> almost ful. but i do have 512 gb disk. i can't adjust it on my disk utility 
>> from el capitan now. thanks for the help
>> 
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Re: How do you open an attachment?

[Jamie Pauls]

Now that is a much simpler method in deed. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 10:13 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> What I do is cmd-y on the message, without opening it. That shows a preview 
> of the message's attachment, so you can read it right there. If you need to 
> open it, there's a button in the preview window to open the file in its 
> default application.
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 11:11, Jamie Pauls  wrote:
>> 
>> Let's assume that the attachment you want to open is a word document. Here 
>> is what I do. One. Open the message using the return key. Two. Interact with 
>> the text in the message.  Three. Navigate to the image of the attached 
>> document using the arrow keys. Four. Press VO space to open a menu of 
>> options. Finally, use VO plus the down arrow key to move to the menu item 
>> that says open attachment.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 12:42 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> you should download the attachment first. then go to your download folder.
 On 02 Oct 2015, at 4:25 AM, Marie Lyons  wrote:
 
 I’ve gone through the menu in mail on myIMAC.  I can’t find a selection 
 for opening an attachment.  I have also checked the v/o help menu but 
 don’t find anything.  Appreciate the help.
 
 Marie
 
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Re: help with start up disk almost full

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

i did already tried it but the problem still exist. when i try to expand my 
hard drive to 500 i wil automatically goes to 143 gb, which i am trying to 
partition a while ago.
> On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:23 PM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
> wrote:
> 
> ok, i'll try
>> On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:04 PM, Jeffrey Shockley  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> The easiest thing would be that I can think of is to boot into Recovery Mode 
>> and open Disc Utility from there, and just the partition there. It just 
>> might work. :)
>> Hope this helps,
>> Jeffrey
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> hello everyone can somebody help me adjust my hard disk i accidentally 
>>> lower my hard drive to 100 gb now my computer is saying that my start up 
>>> disk is almost ful. but i do have 512 gb disk. i can't adjust it on my disk 
>>> utility from el capitan now. thanks for the help
>>> 
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Re: help with start up disk almost full

[Jeffrey Shockley]

Hi,
Here’s what I did. This might work, not sure, since I didn’t change anything.
What you need to do is find where it has the name of the device in the table, 
at the very top, and click Partition in the toolbar. It looks like you can 
resize and add and remove partitions from there.
I hope this helps,
Jeffrey
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
> wrote:
> 
> i did already tried it but the problem still exist. when i try to expand my 
> hard drive to 500 i wil automatically goes to 143 gb, which i am trying to 
> partition a while ago.
>> On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:23 PM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> ok, i'll try
>>> On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:04 PM, Jeffrey Shockley  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> The easiest thing would be that I can think of is to boot into Recovery 
>>> Mode and open Disc Utility from there, and just the partition there. It 
>>> just might work. :)
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> Jeffrey
 On Oct 2, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera 
  wrote:
 
 hello everyone can somebody help me adjust my hard disk i accidentally 
 lower my hard drive to 100 gb now my computer is saying that my start up 
 disk is almost ful. but i do have 512 gb disk. i can't adjust it on my 
 disk utility from el capitan now. thanks for the help
 
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Re: OSX 10.11

[Jonathan C. Cohn]

There are strings you can put into the text to adjust the speech. I believe you 
enclose the adjustments in [[rate 30 ]] That is two square brackets.


Best wishes,

Jonathan



> On Oct 1, 2015, at 11:58, Singing Sparrow  wrote:
> 
> Well, for what i want to do i need it a bit more felxable, Meaning to do 
> multi voices, so that parts can be merged into the same file that each 
> particular part can interact with the other.
> e.g so if i am writing something that has a father talking to their child 
> that the father comes first, then the child and back and forth.
> I do a lot of writing and creating for different stories, and the like and I 
> find the multi voice idea a perfect way of learning and making great things 
> for kids and others a like. that is why i was asking.
> I don't think you could do what i am wanting with the method of adding to 
> itunes as a spoken track?
> 
> On 10/1/2015 10:47 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>> No, and I already told you before about 10 times how to do that, and even 
>> made you an audio demo on how to do it.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Singing Sparrow" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 10:22 AM
>> Subject: Re: OSX 10.11
>> 
>> 
>>> will audio bookbuilder take text files and turn them into synthic speech 
>>> files?
>>> 
>>> On 10/1/2015 9:18 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote:
 Hi!
 
 Cocktail is a general-purpose utility that assists with cleaning, 
 repairing and optimizing your Mac. It has a bunch of tweaks, and can also 
 be scheduled to perform various tasks like cleaning up caches.
 
 Audiobook Builder is exactly what it sounds. It lets you take files and 
 make them into audiobooks. It has a lot of features, too, although I don't 
 use it myself.
 
 Jeff, you may want to grab the new Cocktail build specifically for El 
 Capitan here:
 
 http://www.maintain.se/cocktail/
 
 Nicolai
> On Oct 1, 2015, at 9:50 AM, Singing Sparrow  
> wrote:
> 
> what is cocktail, and audio book builder?
> 
> On 10/1/2015 8:10 AM, jeff `greene wrote:
>> Hi I was trying to open: cocktail, audio book builder, and even google
>> chrome was acting funny. Jeff
>> 
>> On 10/1/15, Dionipher Presas Herrera  wrote:
>>> can i ask what apps are you trying to open?
 On 01 Oct 2015, at 2:10 PM, jeff `greene  wrote:
 
 Hi, Well, last night I upgraded to 10.11. Everything seemed to go
 smoothly, but half of my apps won't open, or they open saying they
 have no windows. I tried to copy the contents of my downloads folder
 onto a thumb drive and once I opened my thumb drive paste wouldn't
 work. I then tried to reboot into windows using bootchamp but it won't
 work. So, I guess I'll be going back to yosemite, but my question is:
 can I go to the app store, click on purchased, and download yosemite
 and install it? Or, do I have to wipe my system and start from
 scratch?
 Thanks, Jeff
 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

All of this speculation is wonderful, but I can’t see it happening unless Apple 
actually sees any mainstream potential in a tactile display.  For right now 
that leaves us with a subsystem that doesn’t work.  I guess that means we’ll 
continue to use Windows and our favourite screen reader, or Linux and BRLTTY.

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Moving to the next cell in Numbers

[Tom Frank]

How do I finish entering data into a Numbers field and move to the next cell? 
This is a very simple operation but I have not been able to figure it out. 
“Enter” kicks me out of the entire table.

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Re: interesting observation with safari 9

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
How to back out of a beta then?
/A
> 2 okt. 2015 kl. 11:44 skrev Sabahattin Gucukoglu :
> 
> Yes.  There is a secondary effect as well: because elements are no longer 
> “Clickable” you often can’t click individual words in an element, which is 
> rather less straightforward to work around.  I’m not sure what the situation 
> is like on El Capitan yet, but on Yosemite one could not click an individual 
> word if the element was not “clickable” which it sometimes wasn’t detected as 
> such even though it was.
> 
> And yes you should be getting Safari 9 from the Mac App Store as a software 
> update.  Try running “softwareupdate -l” in Terminal to see if it shows up as 
> a system update at all.  If not, back out of any beta channel you are on from 
> Sys Prefs and give it another try.
> 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Well maybe you’re right but its very frustrating that braille hasn’t come very 
far on the mac.
/A
> 2 okt. 2015 kl. 14:14 skrev Scott Granados :
> 
> If Apple were a european company or especially German company they would have 
> faked it so the braille support only worked in the government agency’s office 
> responsible for certifying braille support.  It would have failed in the real 
> world.  Sort of the same philosophy as the German Auto manufacturers and 
> pollution control.:)
> 
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Oh dear.
>> Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at all.
>> If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the braille 
>> support will be better.
>> It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
>> Also for window eyes but its there.
>> Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense of 
>> navigating seems not to be able yet.
>> Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
>> Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
>> Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
>> Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
>> THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass this on 
>> to blablabla.
>> I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
>> Still optemistic though.
>> /A 
>>> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
>>> As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 10.11 
>>> while this is for me and others important.
>>> 
>>> Some first remarks:
>>> 1.  It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t move 
>>> around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another program and 
>>> then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is needed here 
>>> perhaps?
>>> 
>>> 2.  I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 are 
>>> used for capitals and some computer signs.
>>> When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application has 
>>> the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I can 
>>> hear it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
>>> I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
>>> position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the selected 
>>> program should appear on the display while switching from one program to 
>>> another.
>>> 
>>> 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, edit-fields 
>>> , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they are fully written 
>>> in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, aankruisvakje=checkbox, 
>>> keuzelijst=combobox …
>>> This should be represented with symbols like { }/{x} [ ] [x] ( )/(x) …
>>> I subpose that the controls like above, are  presented with this kind of 
>>> symbols when the interface-language is set on English.
>>> This is een old question I think but still not changed.
>>> 
>>> Any comments or reports to apple accessibility are very welcom
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> William Windels
>>> 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Sadam Ahmed]

Aggree braille in OS X is atrocious. 

This is one of the reasons I still keep around a Windows installation. 

Yours truly, 

Sadam Ahmed 

Sent from my 13-inch MacBook Pro 




> On 3 Oct 2015, at 4:50 am, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> Well maybe you’re right but its very frustrating that braille hasn’t come 
> very far on the mac.
> /A
>> 2 okt. 2015 kl. 14:14 skrev Scott Granados :
>> 
>> If Apple were a european company or especially German company they would 
>> have faked it so the braille support only worked in the government agency’s 
>> office responsible for certifying braille support.  It would have failed in 
>> the real world.  Sort of the same philosophy as the German Auto 
>> manufacturers and pollution control.:)
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Oh dear.
>>> Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at 
>>> all.
>>> If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the braille 
>>> support will be better.
>>> It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
>>> Also for window eyes but its there.
>>> Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense of 
>>> navigating seems not to be able yet.
>>> Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
>>> Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
>>> Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
>>> Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
>>> THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass this 
>>> on to blablabla.
>>> I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
>>> Still optemistic though.
>>> /A 
 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
 
 Hello all,
 I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
 As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 10.11 
 while this is for me and others important.
 
 Some first remarks:
 1. It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t move 
 around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another program and 
 then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is needed here 
 perhaps?
 
 2. I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 are 
 used for capitals and some computer signs.
 When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application has 
 the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I can 
 hear it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
 I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
 position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the selected 
 program should appear on the display while switching from one program to 
 another.
 
 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, 
 edit-fields , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they are 
 fully written in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, aankruisvakje=checkbox, 
 keuzelijst=combobox …
 This should be represented with symbols like { }/{x} [ ] [x] ( )/(x) …
 I subpose that the controls like above, are  presented with this kind of 
 symbols when the interface-language is set on English.
 This is een old question I think but still not changed.
 
 Any comments or reports to apple accessibility are very welcom
 
 Kind regards,
 William Windels
 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Well if they have an accessible team they should know braille.
They for example asked me how some swedish signs were displayed on my braille 
display when i was complaining.
/A
> 2 okt. 2015 kl. 15:35 skrev Mary Otten :
> 
> For whatever the reason, I simply don't think Apple has higher the expertise 
> they need to get braille right. I think this notion of them doing something 
> special with braille on the screen is nonsense. If I'm wrong and proven 
> wrong, so be it. But I really do believe the problem is they don't know how 
> to get it right, and they haven't found the person who can help them do it. 
> That seem sad, given their money, but there you go.
> .
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:31 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
>> 
>> I sort of think Apple has something big planned though. I've read that they 
>> have their own patent for sort of elastic and shapable metal, so that the 
>> metal could form dots and such. I don't know if they'll do that, or just 
>> keep supporting braille displays, but the lack of new fixes in braille leads 
>> me to think that they'll do a tactile display for the iPhone, and the 
>> braille display things will just get in the way.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:15 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> BTW, I meant that tongue and cheek, I am in total agreement with you.  
>>> Apple’s braille support needs a lot of work and it’s inexcusable how bad it 
>>> is now.
>>> 
 On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
 
 Hi!
 Oh dear.
 Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at 
 all.
 If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the 
 braille support will be better.
 It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
 Also for window eyes but its there.
 Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense of 
 navigating seems not to be able yet.
 Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
 Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
 Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
 Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
 THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass this 
 on to blablabla.
 I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
 Still optemistic though.
 /A 
> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
> 
> Hello all,
> I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
> As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 10.11 
> while this is for me and others important.
> 
> Some first remarks:
> 1.It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t 
> move around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another 
> program and then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is 
> needed here perhaps?
> 
> 2.I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 
> are used for capitals and some computer signs.
> When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application has 
> the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I can 
> hear it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
> I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
> position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the selected 
> program should appear on the display while switching from one program to 
> another.
> 
> 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, 
> edit-fields , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they are 
> fully written in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, aankruisvakje=checkbox, 
> keuzelijst=combobox …
> This should be represented with symbols like { }/{x} [ ] [x] ( )/(x) …
> I subpose that the controls like above, are  presented with this kind of 
> symbols when the interface-language is set on English.
> This is een old question I think but still not changed.
> 
> Any comments or reports to apple accessibility are very welcom
> 
> Kind regards,
> William Windels
> 
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
If the braille support was like in the screenreader cobra which i’ve tested.
Then i could stop using windows.
Also if we could get drivers for the most used brailleprinters that would be a 
great step forward.
/A
> 2 okt. 2015 kl. 16:52 skrev Mary Otten :
> 
> Well, obviously none of us knows the reason why braille especially on the Mac 
> is not very good. I actually don't really think the braille on the screen of 
> a device is going to be all that wonderful or practical. The problem isn't 
> the display. It is the support  for braille. I wish Apple could hire that guy 
> Marcos who apparently was very instrumental in making the jaws braille 
> support as good as it is. They just need somebody who really gets it.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:44 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> I’m not sure about that either because I know they do hire good quality 
>> people even for accessibility efforts so I’m not sure it’s that simple.  I 
>> heard about the patent for the reactive metal but I can’t imagine that being 
>> practical unless it has some benefit for the sited as well.  
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 9:35 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>>> 
>>> For whatever the reason, I simply don't think Apple has higher the 
>>> expertise they need to get braille right. I think this notion of them doing 
>>> something special with braille on the screen is nonsense. If I'm wrong and 
>>> proven wrong, so be it. But I really do believe the problem is they don't 
>>> know how to get it right, and they haven't found the person who can help 
>>> them do it. That seem sad, given their money, but there you go.
>>> .
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:31 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
 
 I sort of think Apple has something big planned though. I've read that 
 they have their own patent for sort of elastic and shapable metal, so that 
 the metal could form dots and such. I don't know if they'll do that, or 
 just keep supporting braille displays, but the lack of new fixes in 
 braille leads me to think that they'll do a tactile display for the 
 iPhone, and the braille display things will just get in the way.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:15 AM, Scott Granados  
> wrote:
> 
> BTW, I meant that tongue and cheek, I am in total agreement with you.  
> Apple’s braille support needs a lot of work and it’s inexcusable how bad 
> it is now.
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> Oh dear.
>> Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille at 
>> all.
>> If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the 
>> braille support will be better.
>> It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
>> Also for window eyes but its there.
>> Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense 
>> of navigating seems not to be able yet.
>> Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
>> Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
>> Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
>> Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
>> THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass 
>> this on to blablabla.
>> I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
>> Still optemistic though.
>> /A 
>>> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels :
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
>>> As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 
>>> 10.11 while this is for me and others important.
>>> 
>>> Some first remarks:
>>> 1.It happens often that I have braille on the display but I can’t 
>>> move around. The trick seems to be that I have to switch to another 
>>> program and then I should  come back. A kind of screen refreshing is 
>>> needed here perhaps?
>>> 
>>> 2.I turn vo-cursor on the braille display off because dots 7 and 8 
>>> are used for capitals and some computer signs.
>>> When this is turned off, I can’t see on the display which application 
>>> has the focus while switching from app to app with command+tab. (Yes, I 
>>> can hear it but sometimes I don’t use sound if I am in a course.
>>> I suggested accessibility to put the selected program on the most left 
>>> position on the display or, like in windows with jaws, only the 
>>> selected program should appear on the display while switching from one 
>>> program to another.
>>> 
>>> 3. Not all controls like radiobuttons , checkboxes, comboboxes, 
>>> edit-fields , are presented with symbols on the display. Mostly, they 
>>> are fully written in dutch “keuzerondje=radiobutton, 
>>> aankruisvakje=checkbox, keuzelijst=combobox …
>>> This should be represented with sy

Re: Moving to the next cell in Numbers

[Jonathan C. Cohn]

I believe this is the tab key. Also might want to try the arrow keys without 
QuickNav on.

Best wishes,

Jonathan



> On Oct 2, 2015, at 13:27, Tom Frank  wrote:
> 
> How do I finish entering data into a Numbers field and move to the next cell? 
> This is a very simple operation but I have not been able to figure it out. 
> “Enter” kicks me out of the entire table.
> 
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Re: 10.11 and braille

[eileen . misrahi]

Hello All,

As I sit here in the lobby of a hotel and reflect on the vendors I had a chance 
to visit with, I'm disheartened to know That the braille displays cost are out 
of my league. The Bum Vario 20 Cell at $2400 and the Smart Beetle at $1300. I 
gave up quickly after getting my MacBook Air 2 years ago in using my braille 
display with it. Fortunately, I Windows installed in BootCamp to use the AT 
software that is not compatible with VO. You are correct and to dream if Apple 
would add driver support for most used braille embossers. However, Duxbury has 
been trying for a few years to develope a Mac version. The problem is VO and 
trying to take a PC product and create an Apple one. I'm not happy either, as 
Apple has dropped the ball on this one for many years. I'm in your camp Scott, 
as I'm not going to update so quickly to El Capitan. It will take a huge 
village to see change at Apple in regards to braille. Thanks for listening.

Best,
Eileen

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 12:08 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> If the braille support was like in the screenreader cobra which i’ve tested.
> Then i could stop using windows.
> Also if we could get drivers for the most used brailleprinters that would be 
> a great step forward.
> /A
>> 2 okt. 2015 kl. 16:52 skrev Mary Otten :
>> 
>> Well, obviously none of us knows the reason why braille especially on the 
>> Mac is not very good. I actually don't really think the braille on the 
>> screen of a device is going to be all that wonderful or practical. The 
>> problem isn't the display. It is the support  for braille. I wish Apple 
>> could hire that guy Marcos who apparently was very instrumental in making 
>> the jaws braille support as good as it is. They just need somebody who 
>> really gets it.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:44 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’m not sure about that either because I know they do hire good quality 
>>> people even for accessibility efforts so I’m not sure it’s that simple.  I 
>>> heard about the patent for the reactive metal but I can’t imagine that 
>>> being practical unless it has some benefit for the sited as well.  
 On Oct 2, 2015, at 9:35 AM, Mary Otten  wrote:
 
 For whatever the reason, I simply don't think Apple has higher the 
 expertise they need to get braille right. I think this notion of them 
 doing something special with braille on the screen is nonsense. If I'm 
 wrong and proven wrong, so be it. But I really do believe the problem is 
 they don't know how to get it right, and they haven't found the person who 
 can help them do it. That seem sad, given their money, but there you go.
 .
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:31 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> I sort of think Apple has something big planned though. I've read that 
> they have their own patent for sort of elastic and shapable metal, so 
> that the metal could form dots and such. I don't know if they'll do that, 
> or just keep supporting braille displays, but the lack of new fixes in 
> braille leads me to think that they'll do a tactile display for the 
> iPhone, and the braille display things will just get in the way.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 7:15 AM, Scott Granados  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> BTW, I meant that tongue and cheek, I am in total agreement with you.  
>> Apple’s braille support needs a lot of work and it’s inexcusable how bad 
>> it is now.
>> 
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:11 AM, Anders Holmberg  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> Oh dear.
>>> Soon i will give up on this as they do not seem to prioritize braille 
>>> at all.
>>> If apple was a german or European company there’s no doubt that the 
>>> braille support will be better.
>>> It took us forever to get good braille support for Jaws.
>>> Also for window eyes but its there.
>>> Nvda has support for braille displays but braille support in the sense 
>>> of navigating seems not to be able yet.
>>> Dolphin has good support and orca for linux.
>>> Still mac is not very well supported in braille.
>>> Its a shame and i will really let them know that.
>>> Sorry for my offensive attack here but i am so tired of this.
>>> THey just get back to you saying thanks for your report we will pass 
>>> this on to blablabla.
>>> I am pissed off but i hope things will be better.
>>> Still optemistic though.
>>> /A 
 1 okt. 2015 kl. 08:33 skrev William Windels 
 :
 
 Hello all,
 I was reading the bug and feature report of Kris , thx for that.
 As announced in that blog, there was not much braille testing with 
 10.11 while this is for me and others important.
 
 Some first remarks:
 1.It happens often that I have braille on the display but

Re: interesting observation with safari 9

[Blee Blat]

The only way I know of to back out of the beta program is to reinstall the Os 
to stable. Once you've done  that, go into system preferences > app store and 
find the change button next to prerelease updates. Click on that and disable it 
and then you won't see more beta updates. It will still list the previous 
prerelease updates as being purchased but it will not autoupdate you to them 
anymore. It's a bit of a pain  so get your backup disk handy and lay in a good 
supply of food and beverages as you're going to be there awhile.

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Re: help with start up disk almost full

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

yes i did all that, but there was a thread on mac rumors that on el capitan 
this is broke. i need a command on terminal. can somebody help.
> On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:51 PM, Jeffrey Shockley  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Here’s what I did. This might work, not sure, since I didn’t change anything.
> What you need to do is find where it has the name of the device in the table, 
> at the very top, and click Partition in the toolbar. It looks like you can 
> resize and add and remove partitions from there.
> I hope this helps,
> Jeffrey
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> i did already tried it but the problem still exist. when i try to expand my 
>> hard drive to 500 i wil automatically goes to 143 gb, which i am trying to 
>> partition a while ago.
>>> On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:23 PM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ok, i'll try
 On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:04 PM, Jeffrey Shockley  wrote:
 
 Hi,
 The easiest thing would be that I can think of is to boot into Recovery 
 Mode and open Disc Utility from there, and just the partition there. It 
 just might work. :)
 Hope this helps,
 Jeffrey
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera 
>  wrote:
> 
> hello everyone can somebody help me adjust my hard disk i accidentally 
> lower my hard drive to 100 gb now my computer is saying that my start up 
> disk is almost ful. but i do have 512 gb disk. i can't adjust it on my 
> disk utility from el capitan now. thanks for the help
> 
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>>> 
>> 
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How do I figure out which library iTunes is using?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

I'm still trying to solve the problem of not having my ringtones synced to my 
6S.  I seem to have several copies of my iTunes library on my Mac.  How do i 
figure out which one is being used by iTunes?
Thanks,
Donna

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What's the best way of reading mail in default view in El Capitan?

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Hello.

I have just update one of my computers to El Capitan and wondered what was the 
best way of reading mail in default view please?

I do like this new Operating system so far.

I do have other issues but will write in another e-mail.

All offers of help appreciated.

Thank you very much.

Kawal.

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Issues with my new I phone 6 S plus.

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Hi.

I also got my new phone today and have a couple of issues.

Even though I have removed my I phone 6 Plus from my account in iCloud, it’s 
showing up in Text messaging Forwarding so I have I Mac twice even though is on 
and Mac mini twice even though I haven’t put El Capitan on it yet as that is a 
task for tomorrow. I don’t know why.  Does anyone know how to get rid of it 
permanently please?

I also downloaded Down Cast and even though I have put I cloud syncing on, none 
of my podcasts are refreshing or showing, I mean, the title of podcasts are not 
showing.

I also went in to the Apple Podcast app and notice how much it has improved.

That’s my observations so far as I’m still setting up the phone from a new I 
phone rather from a restore option of an I phone.

Thanks.

Kawal.

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Re: interesting observation with safari 9

[Rich Ring]

I can definitely confirm this, in fact, the first time it happened to me, it 
really blew my mind!
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 8:49 AM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> Interestingly, it does on some sites still, but not others, going to wait a 
> little while before upgrading to el capitan I think.
> Original message:
>> That seems to be a bug when running Safari 9 under Yosemite. I’m running El 
>> Capitan with Safari 9, and VO announces clickable for me.
> 
>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:54 PM, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
>>> Hey everyone, still using version 10.10 of the operating system, but I did 
>>> install the safari 9 update, and noticed something interesting. Not sure if 
>>> this is a bug or by design, but, in many cases, the "clickable" attribute 
>>> is no longer announced. These are elements that function as links or 
>>> buttons, but are instead created using java script. Personally I wish web 
>>> developers would just use the standard link and button elements instead of 
>>> trying to be fancy, but I guess we're stuck with it. So, if you are using 
>>> safari 9, you may have to pay a bit more attention in order to guess if 
>>> something can be clicked or not.
> 
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Re: Issues with my new I phone 6 S plus.

[Daniel Miller]

Hi,

Unfortunately, the only way to accomplish this I know of is to change your 
apple ID password. I wish there was another way, and there probably is, I just 
haven’t figured it out yet.
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 5:22 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> I also got my new phone today and have a couple of issues.
> 
> Even though I have removed my I phone 6 Plus from my account in iCloud, it’s 
> showing up in Text messaging Forwarding so I have I Mac twice even though is 
> on and Mac mini twice even though I haven’t put El Capitan on it yet as that 
> is a task for tomorrow. I don’t know why.  Does anyone know how to get rid of 
> it permanently please?
> 
> I also downloaded Down Cast and even though I have put I cloud syncing on, 
> none of my podcasts are refreshing or showing, I mean, the title of podcasts 
> are not showing.
> 
> I also went in to the Apple Podcast app and notice how much it has improved.
> 
> That’s my observations so far as I’m still setting up the phone from a new I 
> phone rather from a restore option of an I phone.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Kawal.
> 
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Re: Alex choppiness, has any fix been found?

[Devin Prater]

Could it be that the Mac has a mechanical hd?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 5:23 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I don’t have any problems with alex on my mac mini mid 2011.
> /A
>> 1 okt. 2015 kl. 14:51 skrev Christopher-Mark Gilland :
>> 
>> Count me as a third.
>>  
>> Chris.
>>  
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: Scott Granados
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2015 8:28 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Alex choppiness, has any fix been found?
>>> 
>>> +1 here, no problems with Alex all the way back to a 2009 Macbook Pro.  
>>> Presently running a 2015 15 inch and 2015 13 inch Macbook pro pair of 
>>> laptops with no alex issues what so ever.  Also running well on the iPhone.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 1, 2015, at 8:21 AM, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
 
 Alex working just fine here.  In fact, Alex is the most highly responsive 
 voice I have on my mid 2009 Mac book Pro.  
 PS.  Those who had been used to using the Nuance voices and loved their 
 former quickness of response, and who were dissapointed that under 10.0.5 
 much of that had gone away will be delighted to learn that under 10.11.0, 
 much of the responsiveness we used to love in the Nuance voices has 
 returned.  
 Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
 
 Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
 
 Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
 built-in!!!
 
> On Oct 1, 2015, at 6:17 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> Hi all. I've had my mac for a while now, and have found that Alex is 
> often choppy and unresponsive when used with VoiceOver, even more so than 
> Fred. Has anyone else found that this is so, and fixed it? I have 
> reinstalled my system 2 or so times already, but this bug persists. 
> 
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Option key plus number doesn't bring up websites in Safari.

[Kevin Gibbs]

I've been trying to open Facebook by pressing Command plus 1 from the 
number row on my Mac.  This always used to work.  It doesn't anymore.  I'm 
using Yosemite.  No idea why it doesn't work anymore.  None of the Command 
plus number combinations open the pages to which I've had them assigned for 
years.  Thoughts?

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Re: Option key plus number doesn't bring up websites in Safari.

[Mike Arrigo]

With the new version of Safari, you have to use command option and the numbers.
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 10:54 PM, Kevin Gibbs  wrote:
> 
> I've been trying to open Facebook by pressing Command plus 1 from the number 
> row on my Mac.  This always used to work.  It doesn't anymore.  I'm using 
> Yosemite.  No idea why it doesn't work anymore.  None of the Command plus 
> number combinations open the pages to which I've had them assigned for years. 
>  Thoughts?
> 
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How to make a bootable OS X El Capitan USB key

[M. Taylor]

Hello Everyone,

Well, it's that time of year, again.  

I hope you find the following information useful.

Good Luck,

Mark

How to make a bootable OS X El Capitan USB key

These are instructions on how to make a bootable OS X El Capitan USB key.

1.
Download OS X El Capitan 10.11 from the Mac App Store.  When the download
has finished, make sure that you quit the installer rather than actually
going through the process of upgrading over the top of your existing OS X
installation. Make sure that the installer that downloads the El Capitan
file is located in the /Applications folder under the name 'Install OS X El
Capitan.app'.

2.
Connect a 8GB or larger USB key to your computer.  We're going to need to
format the USB flash drive to get it into a state where it can accept the
payload for the installation of El Capitan.

3.
Launch the Disk Utility application.

4.
Select the USB flash drive in the left sidebar.

5.
Click the Partition tab.

6.
Set the Partition Layout to 1 Partition, set the Name to Untitled, and set
the Format to Mac OS Extended (Journaled).

7.
Click the Options button then choose GUID Partition Table from the popup
window then click the OK button.

8.
Next click the Apply button to save your changes. When asked to confirm
click the Partition button.

9.
Launch Terminal from the Applications:Utilities folder.

10.
Make sure your empty USB key is still inserted. Additionally, make sure you
do not have any other volumes named Untitled except for the one we just
created in Step eight.  Now, execute the following command in the Terminal
window to create your OS X El Capitan Install key:

sudo /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\
Capitan.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/Untitled
--applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app
--nointeraction

11.
Enter your Administrative account password.

12.
After about 15 to 30 minutes the creation of your USB Install Key for OS X
El Capitan will be complete and you may safely remove your newly created El
Capitan Installer key.


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Re: help with start up disk almost full

[Grant]

Hi,

I’ve had this same problem with OS X Yosemite where unallocated space was 
difficult to manage on my primary volume once I tried to manually repartition 
the disk. I think it has something to do with Yosemite and up converting disks 
to core storage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Storage). I researched this 
in quite a bit of depth some weeks ago and I found many interesting ideas for 
resolving the problem, like this one 
(http://awesometoast.com/yosemite-core-storage-and-partition-woes/). However, I 
decided to try something much simpler first. Rather than booting from the 
recovery partition, I booted from Internet Recovery using COMMAND+OPTION+R. 
This recreates the recovery partition and does some quick tests as well on your 
hard drive and memory. For whatever reason, doing this caused my free space to 
show as being reallocated back to my startup partition. Give it a shot and if 
you don’t want to erase your disk, which I understand, it may be worth doing 
some further reading on the topic of core storage and partitioning as I’m far 
from an expert on the topic. And the usual disclaimers apply, e.g. back up your 
data before attempting any troubleshooting steps.

Grant

On Oct 2, 2015, at 2:45 PM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
wrote:

yes i did all that, but there was a thread on mac rumors that on el capitan 
this is broke. i need a command on terminal. can somebody help.
> On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:51 PM, Jeffrey Shockley  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Here’s what I did. This might work, not sure, since I didn’t change anything.
> What you need to do is find where it has the name of the device in the table, 
> at the very top, and click Partition in the toolbar. It looks like you can 
> resize and add and remove partitions from there.
> I hope this helps,
> Jeffrey
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> i did already tried it but the problem still exist. when i try to expand my 
>> hard drive to 500 i wil automatically goes to 143 gb, which i am trying to 
>> partition a while ago.
>>> On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:23 PM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ok, i'll try
 On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:04 PM, Jeffrey Shockley  wrote:
 
 Hi,
 The easiest thing would be that I can think of is to boot into Recovery 
 Mode and open Disc Utility from there, and just the partition there. It 
 just might work. :)
 Hope this helps,
 Jeffrey
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera 
>  wrote:
> 
> hello everyone can somebody help me adjust my hard disk i accidentally 
> lower my hard drive to 100 gb now my computer is saying that my start up 
> disk is almost ful. but i do have 512 gb disk. i can't adjust it on my 
> disk utility from el capitan now. thanks for the help
> 
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Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Good points. Chris, never thought about that.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Oct 2, 2015, at 6:31 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> And the logical answer would be like someone in my position who uses their 
> mac for work, and also trains people on the mac with Voiceover.  I can't 
> exactly effectively support people when I'm running a beta.  What if 
> something breaks or changes in a beta which isn't present in the official 
> release.  I need things to be consistent when working with my clients.
>  
> Chris.
>  
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Shawn Krasniuk 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2015 1:29 AM
>> Subject: Re: OS X El Capitan Available as Free Update Tomorrow
>> 
>> If you're running the beta of 10.11.1, the logical question is why would you 
>> want to downgrade to 10.11.0?
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
>> Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
>> Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
>> Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com 
>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:06 AM, Anders Holmberg >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> I can’t update to it for some reason.
>>> Is this maybe because i have a public beta installed?
>>> 
 30 sep. 2015 kl. 01:14 skrev Ray Foret Jr >>> >:
 
 I didn't need to be.  That's because they discussed it back in June:  
 remember.
 
 
 Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray,
 
 Still a very happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone6+ and Apple TV user!
 
 Sent from my Mac, The Only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
 built-in!!!
 
> On Sep 29, 2015, at 5:14 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  > wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I know.  And the 10.11.1 beta is out for those in the program.  I 
> guess it’s nice to know that they’ve hit a release landmark, but it 
> couldn’t be clearer that OS X is getting one hell of a cold shoulder—not 
> even mentioned at the keynote.
> 
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Re: help with start up disk almost full

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

yeah, i just want to turn bback to yosemite since the disk utility is much less 
complicated. i tried partitioning and repartitioning on yosemite before but i 
have no problem on that. only here on el capitan.
> On 03 Oct 2015, at 7:49 AM, Grant  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I’ve had this same problem with OS X Yosemite where unallocated space was 
> difficult to manage on my primary volume once I tried to manually repartition 
> the disk. I think it has something to do with Yosemite and up converting 
> disks to core storage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Storage). I 
> researched this in quite a bit of depth some weeks ago and I found many 
> interesting ideas for resolving the problem, like this one 
> (http://awesometoast.com/yosemite-core-storage-and-partition-woes/). However, 
> I decided to try something much simpler first. Rather than booting from the 
> recovery partition, I booted from Internet Recovery using COMMAND+OPTION+R. 
> This recreates the recovery partition and does some quick tests as well on 
> your hard drive and memory. For whatever reason, doing this caused my free 
> space to show as being reallocated back to my startup partition. Give it a 
> shot and if you don’t want to erase your disk, which I understand, it may be 
> worth doing some further reading on the topic of core storage and 
> partitioning as I’m far from an expert on the topic. And the usual 
> disclaimers apply, e.g. back up your data before attempting any 
> troubleshooting steps.
> 
> Grant
> 
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 2:45 PM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
> wrote:
> 
> yes i did all that, but there was a thread on mac rumors that on el capitan 
> this is broke. i need a command on terminal. can somebody help.
>> On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:51 PM, Jeffrey Shockley  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> Here’s what I did. This might work, not sure, since I didn’t change anything.
>> What you need to do is find where it has the name of the device in the 
>> table, at the very top, and click Partition in the toolbar. It looks like 
>> you can resize and add and remove partitions from there.
>> I hope this helps,
>> Jeffrey
>>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> i did already tried it but the problem still exist. when i try to expand my 
>>> hard drive to 500 i wil automatically goes to 143 gb, which i am trying to 
>>> partition a while ago.
 On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:23 PM, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
 wrote:
 
 ok, i'll try
> On 02 Oct 2015, at 5:04 PM, Jeffrey Shockley  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> The easiest thing would be that I can think of is to boot into Recovery 
> Mode and open Disc Utility from there, and just the partition there. It 
> just might work. :)
> Hope this helps,
> Jeffrey
>> On Oct 2, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Dionipher Presas Herrera 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> hello everyone can somebody help me adjust my hard disk i accidentally 
>> lower my hard drive to 100 gb now my computer is saying that my start up 
>> disk is almost ful. but i do have 512 gb disk. i can't adjust it on my 
>> disk utility from el capitan now. thanks for the help
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
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