BlindSquare and Beacon Positioning System!

[Percy Garrett]

announces BlindSquare version 3, in celebration of its 3rd anniversary 
supporting navigation for travelers who are blind. With this release 
BlindSquare supports the continuation of navigation indoors for venues equipped 
with Beacon Positioning Systems (BPS)  . When 
GPS fails, BPS continues ensuring the traveler remains aware, is well informed, 
and travels with confidence and options. BlindSquare is the only Augmented 
Reality application specifically designed for people who are blind or have low 
vision.

In collaboration with Dr. Merja Saarela, Principal Lecturer and Research Group 
Leader in Multisensory and Assistive Technology at HAMK University of Applied 
Sciences, MIPsoft has developed BPS, which can be installed in public buildings 
as well as public transportation, to help people who are blind or have low 
vision to use these facilities more easily and confidently.

The BPS consists of iBeacons, low energy Bluetooth devices sending out signals 
that can be received by smartphones. When a BlindSquare user enters the range 
of a specific beacon, a message associated with that beacon will be played on 
their iOS device.

“We a proud to finally present BlindSquare BPS to the public,” says Ilkka 
Pirttimaa, head and founder of MIPsoft, and lead developer of BlindSquare.

“Our system is unique, because we use only 10% the amount of beacons required 
by other indoor navigation systems we see being developed. To cover an area of 
20,000 square meters (215,280 square feet), we only need 18 iBeacons. At the 
same time, BlindSquare BPS delivers accurate and context aware information to 
the user. We are also pleased to partner with Kontakt.io, a provider of high 
quality iBeacons who shares our vision of making public spaces accessible to 
everyone.”

BPS has been developed in collaboration with Dr. Merja Saarela and several 
blind and low vision individuals. Tested and piloted in Helsinki at the ITIS 
Shopping Centre, the largest enclosed mall in Scandinavia, BPS is now available 
to any organization or business wanting to make their premises more accessible 
to blind and low vision people. Jarmo Loponen, one of our first users who 
helped to develop the system, said: “I have low vision and often look for a 
sign to help me know where I am, only to discover that I am not able to read it 
once I have finally found one. With BPS, I can now just hear the messages and 
don’t have to concentrate that hard anymore.” “I am pleased we were able to 
give MIPsoft the opportunity to test BPS in our mall,” says Kirsi Feirikki, 
manager of the ITIS Shopping Centre. “ITIS contains businesses, restaurants, 
and medical services. I am glad to know that due to BPS, it will be easier for 
our blind and low vision customers to access them.”

A BlindSquare BPS is now being installed at Canadian National Institute for the 
Blind (CNIB) national headquarters in Toronto and, in June, in Wellington New 
Zealand for Blind Foundation. Both centers will be featured as national centres 
of excellence for leading technologies. BlindSquare was awarded CNIB’s Winston 
Gordon Award of Excellence in March, American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) 
Access Award in April.

BlindSquare BPS can be employed in many kinds of buildings. In museums, for 
example, it can be used to make the exhibits accessible to visually impaired 
patrons, describing the pieces and providing the background information usually 
available in writing only.

Ilkka Pirttimaa, inventor of both BlindSquare and BPS, says: “I would like to 
thank our visually impaired test users, the management of the ITIS Shopping 
Centre, who allowed us to install a prototype of BPS on their premises, and Dr. 
Merja Saarela, who helped us to conduct the research our system is based on. 
“BPS has proved very effective in helping our visually impaired test users to 
navigate ITIS more quickly and easily. I hope that it will be installed in both 
commercial and cultural venues, to give people living with low vision or sight 
loss equal access to public spaces anywhere.”

MIPsoft, founded in 1989, is a software company specializing in the development 
of smartphone applications. Based in Helsinki, Finland, it works with an 
international team of freelancers from the US, Germany, UK, Estonia, and 
Sweden, most of whom are blind or partially sighted.

CEO Ilkka Pirttimaa is the lead iOS developer. Close monitoring of social media 
channels and of relevant Email discussion lists as well as rapid development 
cycles allow constant product advancement. Marketing is mainly carried out 
through social media. Additionally, MIPsoft has earned a reputation for 
outstanding customer support.

 

 

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Ilkka Pirttimaa
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 1:22 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: BlindSquare V3.00 is out.

 

Hello!

 

Press release: http://blindsquare.

Re: Major frustrations and a big predicament

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

When you signed up for the program, I think it’s fair to say that you accepted 
some amount of risk.  Awful as it is, and I sympathise with your general 
sentiment, you should probably have been ready for this contingency.  These are 
developer waters, stuff is expected to be broken, dysfunctional or otherwise 
beyond reprieve.

Now, to address your particular issue, you’ll have to turn on the Develop menu 
in the Safari preferences, and use it to turn off the rendering of stylesheets. 
 Now you can locate and click the list items.  Turn styles back on once you 
have selected classification and reproducability.  The issue is that there is 
no accessible way to cause the lists to appear visually from the keyboard, so 
for now you’ll just have to forceably unhide them by castrating the application 
temporarily.  This is of course totally broken, and should—somewhat 
ironically—be reported using the Apple Bug Reporter.  I’ll make a note.

P.S.: I already have, it seems.

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windows and vmware

[deedra waters]

so wondering if someone can help here. i can copy/paste to my mac/vm but when i 
try to copy from note pad to note pad it doesn’t do what it’s supposed to. 
control c/a/x/v all dont work and no idea why help if possible?


deedra waters
dee...@the-brannons.com



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Re: organizer suggestions?

[Caitlyn Furness]

Hi there,
It’s in the mac app store.  I don’t know if there is a trial version or not..
There has to be something less costly and that works with vo.

I am going to email the developer and see if they made it vo friendly later 
today.

Thanks,
Cait

> On Jun 10, 2015, at 8:07 PM, Shaf  wrote:
> 
> I can get a copy from  somewhere and test it out for accessibility?
> 
> On 6/10/2015 11:33 PM, Caitlyn Furness wrote:
>> I’m asking because I am hoping people here will have suggestions which are 
>> both accessible *and* less expensive!!
>> 
>> I gave the name of the app so people could go read about what it does and 
>> then hopefully make intelligent suggestions!
>> 
>> Sheesh-you guys amaze me at times!!
>> thanks for any help, etc..
>> Caitlyn
>> 
>>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 11:10 AM, Shaf  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Why would she be asking about it if she didn't have a clue on the 
>>> accessibility of the app?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/10/2015 4:09 PM, george b wrote:
 Well if she said it was to expensive why do you think she has it to answer 
 your question???
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shaf
 Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 08:03
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: organizer suggestions?
 
 How accessible is it, do you know?
 
 On 6/10/2015 3:55 PM, Caitlyn Furness wrote:
> Hi,
> I was recently pointed toward an app called things.  It’s for the mac, 
> and they have an i phone version.  It’s a to do list and scheduler on 
> steroids!!  I would love to get it, but the price is very steep-about $60.
> 
> does anybody have suggestions for a good app like this which doesn’t cost 
> an arm and a leg?
> 
> thanks!
> Caitlyn
> 
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> 
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Using Apple script to script voiceover as one would make scripts for Windows screenreaders

[Devin Prater]

Hi all. Does anyone know if it is possible to script voiceover to work better 
with applications like one would make app modules or add ons for NVDA or 
scripts for Jaws? I’d assume this would be done with Applescript but not sure 
if voiceover has enough API’s or whatever to be used.

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Re: Using Apple script to script voiceover as one would make scripts for Windows screenreaders

[Sean Murphy]

I would also like to know and also do you have to use Apple script?
> On 11 Jun 2015, at 7:57 pm, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> Hi all. Does anyone know if it is possible to script voiceover to work better 
> with applications like one would make app modules or add ons for NVDA or 
> scripts for Jaws? I’d assume this would be done with Applescript but not sure 
> if voiceover has enough API’s or whatever to be used.
> 
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Re: windows and vmware

[Sean Murphy]

Hi,

How do you get the keyboard into VMWare? I thought it was cmd g.

Also do you know how you can  permanently assign a bluetooth keyboard to the 
VMWare? I managed to get it paired. But cannot work out how to tell the Mac not 
to use it. It is not a Mac keyboard, it is a logitech keyboard.
> On 11 Jun 2015, at 7:06 pm, deedra waters  wrote:
> 
> so wondering if someone can help here. i can copy/paste to my mac/vm but when 
> i try to copy from note pad to note pad it doesn’t do what it’s supposed to. 
> control c/a/x/v all dont work and no idea why help if possible?
> 
> 
> deedra waters
> dee...@the-brannons.com
> 
> 
> 
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Re: BlindSquare V3.00 is out.

[Eugenia Firth]

Hi there 
thanks for the information. I went to the Web Site and checked it out. Now I 
have ore questions that I did not see the answer to. Since these iBeacons have 
to be installed and maintained, how much does it cost the businesses to do 
that? I think they would have to see the need for their sighted customers 
before most of them would install such a system, and I can see, since many 
sighted people have smartphones, how they could use it for advertisement. Also, 
in a mall, would every single business have to have one or what? What is the 
range of an iBeacon so that, if you were looking for a particular store and you 
walked into a mall, could you tell which way to start if you went into the 
door, and the place you wanted was on the other side of the mall? North Park 
Mall here in Dallas has an Apple store, so I assume they have one. Good thing 
because since they expanded their store, my poor dog can’t find it any more, 
and I have to get another dog soon, anyway, (if I can ever get into class, that 
is.) So let me describe something since I know more or less how to get there if 
I was going to the Apple store in North Park. 

If I had never been to North Park, and I wanted to go to the Apple store in 
there, I can tell you that the bus stop is located all the way on the other 
side of the mall from where it is. If I didn’t know that, and I got off the 
bus, would the iBeacon have the range to broadcast to my iPhone the direction I 
needed to start? I ask because if it didn’t, I could wander all over big place 
before it detected the iBeacon and told me which way to go. 

I think it is a wonderful sounding system, and I for one can’t wait to get it 
going. The American Foundation for the Blind is doing a seminar for new and/or 
inexperienced iPhone users, and I sent the lady who is doing the seminar 
information about BlindSquare and suggested that for sure she mention it to 
them. The title of the seminar is something like How the iPhone Can Impact Your 
Life. 

Gigi 


Gigi 

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 1:21 AM, Ilkka Pirttimaa  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello!
> 
> Press release: http://blindsquare.com/press/ 
> More info of Indoor system: http://blindsquare.com/indoor/ 
> 
> 
> Best, Ilkka (developer of BlindSquare)
> 
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 12:27 AM, Eugenia Firth  > wrote:
> Hi Sadam. 
> Do you have the URL that was shown on the update notes in BlindSquare? I was 
> going to go and look at it, but I lost the screen on my iPhone and I can’t 
> figure out how to get it back so I check out iBeacons, or whatever it is 
> called. I wanted to see what places are on it. 
> 
> Gigi 
> for one thing. 
> 
> By the way, for those of you going to the ACB convention in Dallas, do you 
> know there is an app you can download from the App Store for navigation 
> within the convention hotel? They say it was done for the San Francisco 
> airport, and I downloaded it for free. I can’t try it out util I go to the 
> convention in July. 
> 
>> On Jun 5, 2015, at 10:24 PM, sadamahmed1...@gmail.com 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all, 
>> 
>> Blind Square a great application for navigation on the iOS platform has 
>> received a significant update. 
>> 
>> The highlight in this release include supporting iBecons Apples 
>> implementation of indoor mapping. 
>> 
>> Here's the change log: 
>> 
>> NEW: BlindSquare now supports BlindSquare BPS (Beacon Positioning System), 
>> an indoor navigation system based on iBeacons. It is currently available at 
>> a few places only, but will hopefully become available at more venues soon.
>> 
>> NEW: 3d sounds. If you use a stereo headset with BlindSquare, you will now 
>> hear the alert sound played from the direction of the POI that is being 
>> announced.
>> 
>> NEW: BlindSquare now supports the TransitTimes+ public transport app
>> 
>> NEW: If you use BlindSquare on an iPhone 6 or 6plus, you can check changes 
>> in elevation. Based on your device’s barometer, the GPS-Info screen shows 
>> your elevation compared to when you started BlindSquare. There is also a 
>> button letting you reset your elevation to the current reading.
>> 
>> CHANGE: Optimized to use less memory
>> 
>> CHANGE: Updated Open Street Map data, more intersection information 
>> available in some areas now.
>> 
>> FIX: Resolved a timing issue in the Audio Menu that made it harder to select 
>> the intended item.
>> 
>> note: You can control BlindSquare‘s Audio Menu from your Apple watch. Start 
>> BlindSquare on your phone, swipe up with two fingers to bring up your 
>> glances, and double-tap the Pause button. Double-Tap again to activate an 
>> Audio Menu item. 
>> 
>> Best wishes. 
>> 
>> Sadam Ahmed 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Members mailing list
>> memb...@bcacug.org 
>> http://bcacug.org/mailman/listi

Re: windows and vmware

[deedra waters]

Hmm i didn’t see anything about cmd g and when i type that it says cmd g or 
something to that effect i’ll try it again though.

as for not getting keyboards to pare i dont know both of my keyboards can work 
with vmware though i’m trying to get the mac keyboard so that it will do all 
the work so to speak i’m not carrying around 2 keyboards lol.


deedra waters
dee...@the-brannons.com



> On Jun 11, 2015, at 3:14 AM, Sean Murphy  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> How do you get the keyboard into VMWare? I thought it was cmd g.
> 
> Also do you know how you can  permanently assign a bluetooth keyboard to the 
> VMWare? I managed to get it paired. But cannot work out how to tell the Mac 
> not to use it. It is not a Mac keyboard, it is a logitech keyboard.
>> On 11 Jun 2015, at 7:06 pm, deedra waters  wrote:
>> 
>> so wondering if someone can help here. i can copy/paste to my mac/vm but 
>> when i try to copy from note pad to note pad it doesn’t do what it’s 
>> supposed to. control c/a/x/v all dont work and no idea why help if possible?
>> 
>> 
>> deedra waters
>> dee...@the-brannons.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
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Re: Major frustrations and a big predicament

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I got it.  Wow though!  Just totally! wow!  I wonder why on earth that made all 
the difference!  It doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense.  Or... does 
it, and I just don't know?

I'm still definitely not fond of what those couple of reps told me over at 
Apple, and though that was only a few reps of many at Apple, my feeling is, 
each rep does indeed represent the quality of Apple, and the last thing they 
need is for a rep to set a bad example.

That's what made me so pissed off about this.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Barry Hadder 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 8:53 PM
  Subject: Re: Major frustrations and a big predicament


  First, find classification, switch to groups, vo-space on classification, 
then move vo to the list of clasifications.
  interact with the list and vo-space on the clasification item that you want.
  Hope that helps.


  On Jun 10, 2015, at 6:24 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
wrote:


  OK, so after I clicked the new button, I switched to group mode instead of 
dom.  I can't find however where to interact to choose the classification after 
I click on accessibility.

  Group mode makes things so cluttered, can you give me some steps as to what 
on the page to look for, and when at what point I need to toggle to group mode? 
 Maybe I'm doing this slightly wrong.

  You're welcome to help me with this off list if you fear we're break NDA 
going on list about this.

  clgillan...@gmail.com

  Chris.
- Original Message - 
From: Barry Hadder
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: Major frustrations and a big predicament


You can set a key to toggle between them in keyboard commander.  I use 
right option-g.


On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:17 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Is there a quick way to do this, or will I have to do it each time back and 
forth within the Voiceover Utility.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Barry Hadder
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 6:09 PM
  Subject: Re: Major frustrations and a big predicament


  Hi Chris,


  Just switch to groups mode and it will work with voiceover.  The rest of 
the form works fine with dom navigation.


  On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


  So, guys, I never like writing e-mails like this, and I know some of you 
are going to write me and scream at me for being over dramatic, or for waisting 
your time etc.  Most of you on this list who're civil have seen the patterns, 
therefore I don't think it's either necessary nor appropriate for me to quote 
names, as you all probably know the folks I'm referring to.

  Here is the situation though.  I'm obviously going to keep this fairly 
general, but I have to at least be detailed enough for you all to understand 
where I'm coming from, so though this may be borderline, I don't think it's 
quite at the point of violating anything.

  So, this morning, I installed the beta of I O S 9 on my IPhone 5S.  I'm 
not at liberty to state the specifics, but I found a bug which is quite severe 
and could really effect accessibility in one aspect.  Though it's not anything 
that would render the device useless, it definitely is severe enough it needs 
to be fixed.  Again, I'm not at a position to elaborate on this, but my point 
is, I logged into the Apple developer web site, and proceeded to the bug 
reporter.  I should add that I tried this both with Capitan and with Yosemite.  
Both have the same results.  Once I clicked the button for a new bug report, it 
popped up asking what type of bug I'm filing.  Under the "Other" heading, I 
chose accessibility.  This opened up a window to create a new accessibility 
report.  I hit vo+Right arrow, and got down to classification.  Once I hit 
vo+space on the item that says select classification clickable, nothing at all 
happened.  Absolutely nothing.  So, I cannot accessibly continue the process, 
as at this point, I get totally stuck.  I tried routing my mouse pointer with 
vo+command+F5, then vo+shift+space, I tried hitting spacebar, return, clicking 
the literal trackpad, interacting, vo+shift+M, ctrl+clicking the trackpad, 
absolutely nothing! is working.  I tried with Safari, and with Chrome both on 
Yosemite, and on Capitan with the same results.

  I tried on Windows with Windows 8.1 in both IE 11, and in Firefox.  Both 
were tested with JAWS 16, and with NVDA 2015.2.  Once I clicked the new button 
for a new report, I tried hitting enter on the accessibility button, and 
absolutely nothing happened.  In JAWS, I did an insert+escape to refresh the 
screen, no good.  I re-initialized Aria, just in case that was what it was 
using, no good.  I tried routing my jaws cursor to my virtual PC cursor then 
clicking.  No good.  In NVDA, I routed my mouse pointer with

Re: I can't find the download link.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Yeah, but not today.  Not  until some time in July when the public beta is 
released.  Right now, it's only released to us developers.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Joe Quinn 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 11:18 PM
  Subject: Re: I can't find the download link.


  So does that mean if you're not an Apple developer you could still beta test 
iOS and OS X 

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Jun 10, 2015, at 4:35 PM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:


Yes, things have indeed changed. There is now only one Apple Developer 
Program and everyone is enrolled to beta test Watch OS, iOS and OS X.

Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org


  On 11/06/2015, at 7:50 am, christopher hallsworth 
 wrote:


  I think we can all help with this since nothing specific has been 
disclosed. Unfortunately you will have to renew or subscribe to the Mac 
Developer Program as well. This is still a separate payment. This is going by 
when I renewed my membership the morning of Friday 1 May. Things may have 
changed now, but that was the state of play then. Once you've renewed or 
subscribed though, you should see the OS X 10.11 Developer Beta ready for you 
to download. Good luck.

On 10 Jun 2015, at 13:05, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:

Guys, I don't intend to breech NDA here, but I do need some help.  I 
can't seem to find the download link to OSX Capitan.  Yes, I have paied the $99 
this morning to renew my developer account which I initially created last year.

Here's what I'm doing so far.  Hopefully you all can tell me what I'm 
doing wrong.

I'm starting out by going to:

http://developer.apple.com

I'm then going to the members center and signing in with my Apple ID 
and password.

Once in, I see where the link is for the SDK's and betas.  I click that 
link, then I do see IOS, and I was able to successfully get IOS 9 downloaded.  
That works fine.  I got it running on my IPad Air.  I can't say more about that 
than that, but I did manage to get it working.  I'll say that much.

However, I see no links for mac, or for OSX, or capitan, or anything of 
the sort.  When I renewed my membership, the only program it gave me access to 
said Apple Developer program.  So, it kind of makes me wonder.  It used to be, 
I had to pay $99 for the I O S developer program, and another $99 for the mac 
OSX program.  I really hope I don't have to still do that.  Being it only had 
one program that I was able to renew, which was the Apple Developer, and being 
that last year I had both the mac and I O S programs, it looks like they've 
merged them both into one, with one payment.  God that would be nice if so!

Anyway, yeah, after going to the link for the SDK and betas, I don't 
see anywhere to download Capitan.  Again, I know due to NDA you all can't 
really give me any specifics about the OS itself, but can you all at least! 
help me with figuring out where to go to get it downloaded now that I am an 
active developer?

Thanks.

Chris.

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Re: Major frustrations and a big predicament

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I know, I realized that after I asked the question.  I'm feeling a little 
stupid now.  LOL!

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Andrew Lamanche 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 2:00 AM
  Subject: Re: Major frustrations and a big predicament


  Hi,


  You can assign a shortcut key combination to switch between DOM and group 
navigation in keyboard commander in VoiceOver utility.

On 10 Jun 2015, at 23:17, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
wrote:


Is there a quick way to do this, or will I have to do it each time back and 
forth within the Voiceover Utility.

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Barry Hadder 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 6:09 PM
  Subject: Re: Major frustrations and a big predicament


  Hi Chris, 


  Just switch to groups mode and it will work with voiceover.  The rest of 
the form works fine with dom navigation.


  On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


  So, guys, I never like writing e-mails like this, and I know some of you 
are going to write me and scream at me for being over dramatic, or for waisting 
your time etc.  Most of you on this list who're civil have seen the patterns, 
therefore I don't think it's either necessary nor appropriate for me to quote 
names, as you all probably know the folks I'm referring to.

  Here is the situation though.  I'm obviously going to keep this fairly 
general, but I have to at least be detailed enough for you all to understand 
where I'm coming from, so though this may be borderline, I don't think it's 
quite at the point of violating anything.

  So, this morning, I installed the beta of I O S 9 on my IPhone 5S.  I'm 
not at liberty to state the specifics, but I found a bug which is quite severe 
and could really effect accessibility in one aspect.  Though it's not anything 
that would render the device useless, it definitely is severe enough it needs 
to be fixed.  Again, I'm not at a position to elaborate on this, but my point 
is, I logged into the Apple developer web site, and proceeded to the bug 
reporter.  I should add that I tried this both with Capitan and with Yosemite.  
Both have the same results.  Once I clicked the button for a new bug report, it 
popped up asking what type of bug I'm filing.  Under the "Other" heading, I 
chose accessibility.  This opened up a window to create a new accessibility 
report.  I hit vo+Right arrow, and got down to classification.  Once I hit 
vo+space on the item that says select classification clickable, nothing at all 
happened.  Absolutely nothing.  So, I cannot accessibly continue the process, 
as at this point, I get totally stuck.  I tried routing my mouse pointer with 
vo+command+F5, then vo+shift+space, I tried hitting spacebar, return, clicking 
the literal trackpad, interacting, vo+shift+M, ctrl+clicking the trackpad, 
absolutely nothing! is working.  I tried with Safari, and with Chrome both on 
Yosemite, and on Capitan with the same results.

  I tried on Windows with Windows 8.1 in both IE 11, and in Firefox.  Both 
were tested with JAWS 16, and with NVDA 2015.2.  Once I clicked the new button 
for a new report, I tried hitting enter on the accessibility button, and 
absolutely nothing happened.  In JAWS, I did an insert+escape to refresh the 
screen, no good.  I re-initialized Aria, just in case that was what it was 
using, no good.  I tried routing my jaws cursor to my virtual PC cursor then 
clicking.  No good.  In NVDA, I routed my mouse pointer with NVDA+numpad slash, 
then left clicked with num pad slash.  No good.  I even tried with Window-Eyes, 
routing the mouse with insert+num pad plus, then doing a left click.  Again, no 
good.  Nothing happened.

  When I called Apple developer support to let them know about this, and 
that the accessibility of the bug tracker was broken, they didn't exactly blow 
me off, but they didn't seem really all that concerned either.  They basically 
told me they'd file it with

  apple.com/feedback

  When I told them that I don't know how long that would take but it 
probably wouldn't get solved very soon that method, most likely, the guy got a 
little bit defensive with me.  He told me that in his words, they don't support 
the Bug tracker in his department, therefore he doesn't have a way to open a 
ticket with the engineers to get this fixed.

  When I told him that I just spent the very last 99 dollars I had for this 
program, he got snovvy and said, then you better start developing your apps so 
you can get paid back.  I told him I don't program, I don't write applications. 
 The reason I joined was to report bugs, and help them with making sure things 
were accessible.  I told him if I can't do that and report bugs in the first 
place, then what is the point therefore of me being a dev.  I told him I'd paid 
99 dollars for this, and therefo

Re: Major frustrations and a big predicament

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

As long as I can report bugts, I'm ok.  and it looks like though this is a 
really piss poor solution in my book, hey! the point is, it works until we 
can get something else better.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Sabahattin Gucukoglu" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 4:37 AM
Subject: Re: Major frustrations and a big predicament


When you signed up for the program, I think it’s fair to say that you 
accepted some amount of risk.  Awful as it is, and I sympathise with your 
general sentiment, you should probably have been ready for this contingency. 
These are developer waters, stuff is expected to be broken, dysfunctional or 
otherwise beyond reprieve.


Now, to address your particular issue, you’ll have to turn on the Develop 
menu in the Safari preferences, and use it to turn off the rendering of 
stylesheets.  Now you can locate and click the list items.  Turn styles back 
on once you have selected classification and reproducability.  The issue is 
that there is no accessible way to cause the lists to appear visually from 
the keyboard, so for now you’ll just have to forceably unhide them by 
castrating the application temporarily.  This is of course totally broken, 
and should—somewhat ironically—be reported using the Apple Bug Reporter.  I’ll 
make a note.


P.S.: I already have, it seems.

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Re: organizer suggestions?

[Shaf]

Sure. Let us know what the developer responds with.

On 6/11/2015 10:36 AM, Caitlyn Furness wrote:

Hi there,
It’s in the mac app store.  I don’t know if there is a trial version or not..
There has to be something less costly and that works with vo.

I am going to email the developer and see if they made it vo friendly later 
today.

Thanks,
Cait


On Jun 10, 2015, at 8:07 PM, Shaf  wrote:

I can get a copy from  somewhere and test it out for accessibility?

On 6/10/2015 11:33 PM, Caitlyn Furness wrote:

I’m asking because I am hoping people here will have suggestions which are both 
accessible *and* less expensive!!

I gave the name of the app so people could go read about what it does and then 
hopefully make intelligent suggestions!

Sheesh-you guys amaze me at times!!
thanks for any help, etc..
Caitlyn


On Jun 10, 2015, at 11:10 AM, Shaf  wrote:

Why would she be asking about it if she didn't have a clue on the accessibility 
of the app?


On 6/10/2015 4:09 PM, george b wrote:

Well if she said it was to expensive why do you think she has it to answer your 
question???

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Shaf
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 08:03
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: organizer suggestions?

How accessible is it, do you know?

On 6/10/2015 3:55 PM, Caitlyn Furness wrote:

Hi,
I was recently pointed toward an app called things.  It’s for the mac, and they 
have an i phone version.  It’s a to do list and scheduler on steroids!!  I 
would love to get it, but the price is very steep-about $60.

does anybody have suggestions for a good app like this which doesn’t cost an 
arm and a leg?

thanks!
Caitlyn


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Re: synchronise files/folders privately

[William Windels]

Hello Chris and others,
Thx for the suggestion.
I think this isn’t the solution I am waiting for because:
Items aren’t offline available on the macbook since they are only stored on the 
nas.
Also, since iOS hasn’t a explorer built in , the backup from the iphone with 
itunes should not give my acces to particular files/folders from the iphone.

It’s already possible to view files stored on the nas from iOS with the qfile 
app from nap.

Many thanx for other suggestions.
Kind regards,
William Windels
I only need a program/system that can synchronize files between my macbook and 
other mac computers on one side  the nas on the other side. 

> Op 10-jun.-2015, om 23:15 heeft 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>  het volgende geschreven:
> 
> So if your iphone/ipad is synched/backed up to your Mac via iTunes then all 
> the files are local on the Mac, not in icloud. If you could set iTunes to 
> store these backups in a network drive from your NAS, would that not get you 
> where you want to be?
> 
> CB
> 
> On 6/10/15 4:43 PM, William Windels wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> I would like to sync files/folders with different devices: iphone/ipad and 
>> also mac computers.
>> There are many cloud-services that can handle this but I would like to store 
>> it privately.
>> For this, and other tasks, I have a nas device from qnap.
>> It would be so nice If I can put files/folders on my mac, they are 
>> synchronized to me nas and after synching , they are offline available on my 
>> mac and iOS-devices…
>> 
>> I tought bitorent sync could handle this task but I can’t see yet how it 
>> should work for me.
>> Qsync, a plugin for the qnap nas should also handle the job but the sync 
>> program for the mac seems not to work correctly.
>> 
>> If there are any other plugins, experiences or possibilities I can look for, 
>> it would be great to hear of you.
>> 
>> Kind regards
>> William Windels
>> 
> 
> -- 
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
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Re: synchronise files/folders privately

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

I’m going with Panic Transmit and ssh/sftp.  It might work for you.  It’s not 
sync, but I think you can download things for offline access.

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Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Well, i think they should renew the hole voice collection.
Lets hope they do something.
/A
> 10 jun 2015 kl. 19:07 skrev Ray Foret Jr :
> 
> Subject line pretty much says it all.  Nothing against Alex mind you:  but, 
> frankly, I reckon it's high time Apple adopted a new and much more updated 
> default voice.  The new Siri male US English voice might perhaps be a good 
> choice.  Here's hoping we see this one in Elcapitan.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> 
> Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
> Sent from my Mac,
> the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
> 
> 
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Re: claarification wanted with respect to using Messages for Facebook

[Traci Duncan]

Hi, I have one more question…

Is this Facebook chat or Facebook messages?  There is a difference, correct?  :)

Traci

On Jun 10, 2015, at 3:36 PM, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:

> Ah, thanks.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> 
> Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
> Sent from my Mac,
> the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
> 
>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:31 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Not necessarily.  Your FaceBook username is usually different than your 
>> eMail address that you may use to log into FaceBook.  It often is some 
>> version of your name and usually, but not always, has a number attached to 
>> it.
>> 
>> So, for example:
>> 
>> • Login to FaceBook with eMail joe.b...@gmail.com
>> • FaceBook username is Joe.Blow.8 which can be found at 
>> www.facebook.com/username
>> • iMessage setup would use joe.blo...@chat.facebook.com.
>> 
>> So, it really has nothing to do with your eMail address.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 15:41, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
>> 
>> Ah, so, when I put in my user name, I leave out the @comcast.net part?
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>> 
>> Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac,
>> the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
>> 
>>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 3:51 PM, christopher hallsworth 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Ray
>>> 
>>> Nowhere near *smile*. It's your username at chat dot facebook dot com.
>>> 
>>> 
 On 10 Jun 2015, at 21:49, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
 
 Okay,
 
 I've got the steps down for adding my Facebook account to Messages except 
 for one thing.  When I enter the user name part, do they want just 
 rforet7706 and not the e-mail server part?  In other words, should it look 
 like this:
 rforet7...@facebook.chat.com
 or should it look like this:
 rforet7...@comcast.net@facebook.chat.com
 since 
 rforet7...@comcast.net is the user name I use?
 
 Sincerely,
 The Constantly Barefooted Ray
 
 Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
 
 Sent from my Mac,
 the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
 
 
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Re: claarification wanted with respect to using Messages for Facebook

[John D. Lipsey]

As far as I understand it, messages and chat for facebook are essentially the 
same thing. If you chat someone and they’re offline, it shows up in their 
messages for them to view later and respond to as they wish.  If you’re both 
online, you can chat with each other in real time.

HTH.

DFTBA!

John D. Lipsey

mail: johnl1...@gmail.com

Twitter: @J_TGL

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 09:00, Traci Duncan  wrote:
> 
> Hi, I have one more question…
> 
> Is this Facebook chat or Facebook messages?  There is a difference, correct?  
> :)
> 
> Traci
> 
> On Jun 10, 2015, at 3:36 PM, Ray Foret Jr  > wrote:
> 
>> Ah, thanks.
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>> 
>> Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac,
>> the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
>> 
>>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:31 PM, Tim Kilburn >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Not necessarily.  Your FaceBook username is usually different than your 
>>> eMail address that you may use to log into FaceBook.  It often is some 
>>> version of your name and usually, but not always, has a number attached to 
>>> it.
>>> 
>>> So, for example:
>>> 
>>> • Login to FaceBook with eMail joe.b...@gmail.com 
>>> 
>>> • FaceBook username is Joe.Blow.8 which can be found at 
>>> www.facebook.com/username 
>>> • iMessage setup would use joe.blo...@chat.facebook.com 
>>> .
>>> 
>>> So, it really has nothing to do with your eMail address.
>>> 
>>> HTH.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
>>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 15:41, Ray Foret Jr >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ah, so, when I put in my user name, I leave out the @comcast.net 
>>>  part?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>>> 
>>> Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Mac,
>>> the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
>>> 
 On Jun 10, 2015, at 3:51 PM, christopher hallsworth 
 mailto:challswor...@icloud.com>> wrote:
 
 Hi Ray
 
 Nowhere near *smile*. It's your username at chat dot facebook dot com.
 
 
> On 10 Jun 2015, at 21:49, Ray Foret Jr  > wrote:
> 
> Okay,
> 
> I've got the steps down for adding my Facebook account to Messages except 
> for one thing.  When I enter the user name part, do they want just 
> rforet7706 and not the e-mail server part?  In other words, should it 
> look like this:
> rforet7...@facebook.chat.com 
> or should it look like this:
> rforet7...@comcast.net @facebook.chat.com 
> 
> since 
> rforet7...@comcast.net  is the user name I 
> use?
> 
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> 
> Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
> Sent from my Mac,
> the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
> 
> 
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>>> 
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>>> To po

Re: I can't find the download link.

[Joe Quinn]

Ok cool! I know when IOS 8 came out, I wanted to beta test it, but apparently 
it was "invite only." not any more huh? Sweet! I'd beeen running public betas   
of 10.10 for a while now and am excited to see what's gonna be in the next 
itteration of apple stuff! :)  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 6:03 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Yeah, but not today.  Not  until some time in July when the public beta is 
> released.  Right now, it's only released to us developers.
>  
> Chris.
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: Joe Quinn
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 11:18 PM
> Subject: Re: I can't find the download link.
> 
> So does that mean if you're not an Apple developer you could still beta test 
> iOS and OS X 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 4:35 PM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, things have indeed changed. There is now only one Apple Developer 
>> Program and everyone is enrolled to beta test Watch OS, iOS and OS X.
>> Jonathan Mosen
>> Mosen Consulting
>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>> http://Mosen.org
>> 
>>> On 11/06/2015, at 7:50 am, christopher hallsworth  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think we can all help with this since nothing specific has been
>>> disclosed. Unfortunately you will have to renew or subscribe to the Mac 
>>> Developer Program as well. This is still a separate payment. This is going 
>>> by when I renewed my membership the morning of Friday 1 May. Things may 
>>> have changed now, but that was the state of play then. Once you've renewed 
>>> or subscribed though, you should see the OS X 10.11 Developer Beta ready 
>>> for you to download. Good luck.
 On 10 Jun 2015, at 13:05, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
 wrote:
 
 Guys, I don't intend to breech NDA here, but I do need some help.  I can't 
 seem to find the download link to OSX Capitan.  Yes, I have paied the $99 
 this morning to renew my developer account which I initially created last 
 year.
 
 Here's what I'm doing so far.  Hopefully you all can tell me what I'm 
 doing wrong.
 
 I'm starting out by going to:
 
 http://developer.apple.com
 
 I'm then going to the members center and signing in with my Apple ID and 
 password.
 
 Once in, I see where the link is for the SDK's and betas.  I click that 
 link, then I do see IOS, and I was able to successfully get IOS 9 
 downloaded.  That works fine.  I got it running on my IPad Air.  I can't 
 say more about that than that, but I did manage to get it working.  I'll 
 say that much.
 
 However, I see no links for mac, or for OSX, or capitan, or anything of 
 the sort.  When I renewed my membership, the only program it gave me 
 access to said Apple Developer program.  So, it kind of makes me wonder.  
 It used to be, I had to pay $99 for the I O S developer program, and 
 another $99 for the mac OSX program.  I really hope I don't have to still 
 do that.  Being it only had one program that I was able to renew, which 
 was the Apple Developer, and being that last year I had both the mac and I 
 O S programs, it looks like they've merged them both into one, with one 
 payment.  God that would be nice if so!
 
 Anyway, yeah, after going to the link for the SDK and betas, I don't see 
 anywhere to download Capitan.  Again, I know due to NDA you all can't 
 really give me any specifics about the OS itself, but can you all at 
 least! help me with figuring out where to go to get it downloaded now that 
 I am an active developer?
 
 Thanks.
 
 Chris.
 
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Re: I can't find the download link.

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Just hang tight.  That's really all I'm at liberty to say.  I managed to figure 
out the bug tracker, thanks to a very generous individual on the list who 
helped me out.  I don't want to quote names, as I don't want to put him/her on 
the spot.  That just doesn't seem appropriate to me.  This said, you know who 
you are, so thank you.  I appreciate everyone's help.  I can't go into any 
specifics obviously, but I can say that even for the first seed both of I O S, 
and of OSX, as I'm testing both at this time, all things considered, I'm very 
very impressed!  For the first seed of both, Apple actually might very likely 
do it right this time from the beginning.  Yes there are some bugs I've found 
in both, but they're being filed accordingly now that I know how to do so, so 
we'll see what happens.  I think however unless things change down the line, 
God forbid, you all who aren't devs will be impressed.

Chris.

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Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice

['Kevin Cussick' via MacVisionaries]

Well I use Fiona Compact and have it as fast as I can and love it. but 
each to there own.


On 10/06/2015 20:16, Jonathan Mosen wrote:

Hi Christopher. I think it depends on the hearing loss. I've worked with people 
for example with a hearing loss who find Alex unintelligible once you go a 
little above the default rate, but who can have compact Daniel cranked up 
remarkably fast.
Personally I'd be delighted to have Eloquence on my Mac because Alex 
mispronounces far too much for my liking. The moral of the story is the more 
choice of TTS a screen reader company can offer, the better. Speech is 
extremely subjective.
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org


On 11/06/2015, at 6:28 am, christopher hallsworth  
wrote:

Might be coming next year . Seriously though, I don't ever want Apple to 
remove Alex. He's fantastic for someone with moderately severe to profound hearing 
loss which I have. The other voices included are fine, but doesn't cut it like Alex.

On 10 Jun 2015, at 18:46, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:

Hi Ray. I don't really want Apple to get rid of Alex. I lve the fact that he 
takes breaths and everything. I am with you on one thing though, I hope Apple 
considers making the Siri voices available in El Capitan. After all, you can 
get them for NVDA in Windows so why can't it be done on the Mac?

Shawn
Sent from my White MacBook




On Jun 10, 2015, at 12:07 PM, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:

Subject line pretty much says it all.  Nothing against Alex mind you:  but, 
frankly, I reckon it's high time Apple adopted a new and much more updated 
default voice.  The new Siri male US English voice might perhaps be a good 
choice.  Here's hoping we see this one in Elcapitan.


Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray

Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!

Sent from my Mac,
the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in


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Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Jonathan,

I totally totally agree with you!  If we could get Eloquence on the mac, 
that would probably be the happiest day of my life!  I am one of those who 
falls into the category you mentioned regarding Alex.  I can use him, but I 
have to keep it at the default speaking rate, and even then, with my hearing 
loss, I have to pay fairly close attention.  Especially if I'm reading say, 
an entire paragraph or whatever in one chunk.  Again, I can do it, but it's 
not easy.


I don't honestly know what so many people have against Eloquence.  Even the 
Vocalizer voices I can't seem to really understand terribly well.  I can do 
it, as I said, but not easily.  I can't ramp Eloquence up very fast, but I 
definitely have it slightly faster than the default both on my JAWS and my 
Window-eyes.


I know that Eloquence is also available for NVDA, but not legally, so there 
went that idea.


I know there is a port for Eloquence done by Tylor Spivy of Eloquence that 
works on the mac, but it's a bit tricky to get it working, and is incredibly 
incredibly unstable.  I used it just long enough to see if it really 
actually worked, but obviously took it off, 1, when I saw how unstable it 
was, and 2, due to the fact it's also illegal.  Even had it worked 
flawlessly, I couldn't have kept it in good concience.


I agree though, if there was a way to buy a mac ported stable mind you, 
license for Eloquence, for OSX, I'd do it faster than a blink of an eye! 
Darn straight I would!  It's really about the only synth I can not only 
understand, but comfortably can listen to on and on for hours at a time.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "'Kevin Cussick' via MacVisionaries" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice


Well I use Fiona Compact and have it as fast as I can and love it. but
each to there own.

On 10/06/2015 20:16, Jonathan Mosen wrote:
Hi Christopher. I think it depends on the hearing loss. I've worked with 
people for example with a hearing loss who find Alex unintelligible once 
you go a little above the default rate, but who can have compact Daniel 
cranked up remarkably fast.
Personally I'd be delighted to have Eloquence on my Mac because Alex 
mispronounces far too much for my liking. The moral of the story is the 
more choice of TTS a screen reader company can offer, the better. Speech 
is extremely subjective.

Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org

On 11/06/2015, at 6:28 am, christopher hallsworth 
 wrote:


Might be coming next year . Seriously though, I don't ever want 
Apple to remove Alex. He's fantastic for someone with moderately severe 
to profound hearing loss which I have. The other voices included are 
fine, but doesn't cut it like Alex.

On 10 Jun 2015, at 18:46, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:

Hi Ray. I don't really want Apple to get rid of Alex. I lve the fact 
that he takes breaths and everything. I am with you on one thing though, 
I hope Apple considers making the Siri voices available in El Capitan. 
After all, you can get them for NVDA in Windows so why can't it be done 
on the Mac?


Shawn
Sent from my White MacBook



On Jun 10, 2015, at 12:07 PM, Ray Foret Jr  
wrote:


Subject line pretty much says it all.  Nothing against Alex mind you: 
but, frankly, I reckon it's high time Apple adopted a new and much more 
updated default voice.  The new Siri male US English voice might 
perhaps be a good choice.  Here's hoping we see this one in Elcapitan.



Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray

Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!

Sent from my Mac,
the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in


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For more opt

Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Eloquence is a good synth but though it does not support my native language.
It support finnish but having eloquence finnish or german speaking swedish 
doesn’t sound really great.
So i have to stick with acapella voices for swedish even though they have some 
glitches.
/A
> 11 jun 2015 kl. 21:25 skrev Christopher-Mark Gilland :
> 
> Jonathan,
> 
> I totally totally agree with you!  If we could get Eloquence on the mac, that 
> would probably be the happiest day of my life!  I am one of those who falls 
> into the category you mentioned regarding Alex.  I can use him, but I have to 
> keep it at the default speaking rate, and even then, with my hearing loss, I 
> have to pay fairly close attention.  Especially if I'm reading say, an entire 
> paragraph or whatever in one chunk.  Again, I can do it, but it's not easy.
> 
> I don't honestly know what so many people have against Eloquence.  Even the 
> Vocalizer voices I can't seem to really understand terribly well.  I can do 
> it, as I said, but not easily.  I can't ramp Eloquence up very fast, but I 
> definitely have it slightly faster than the default both on my JAWS and my 
> Window-eyes.
> 
> I know that Eloquence is also available for NVDA, but not legally, so there 
> went that idea.
> 
> I know there is a port for Eloquence done by Tylor Spivy of Eloquence that 
> works on the mac, but it's a bit tricky to get it working, and is incredibly 
> incredibly unstable.  I used it just long enough to see if it really actually 
> worked, but obviously took it off, 1, when I saw how unstable it was, and 2, 
> due to the fact it's also illegal.  Even had it worked flawlessly, I couldn't 
> have kept it in good concience.
> 
> I agree though, if there was a way to buy a mac ported stable mind you, 
> license for Eloquence, for OSX, I'd do it faster than a blink of an eye! Darn 
> straight I would!  It's really about the only synth I can not only 
> understand, but comfortably can listen to on and on for hours at a time.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "'Kevin Cussick' via MacVisionaries" 
> 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 2:17 PM
> Subject: Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice
> 
> 
> Well I use Fiona Compact and have it as fast as I can and love it. but
> each to there own.
> 
> On 10/06/2015 20:16, Jonathan Mosen wrote:
>> Hi Christopher. I think it depends on the hearing loss. I've worked with 
>> people for example with a hearing loss who find Alex unintelligible once you 
>> go a little above the default rate, but who can have compact Daniel cranked 
>> up remarkably fast.
>> Personally I'd be delighted to have Eloquence on my Mac because Alex 
>> mispronounces far too much for my liking. The moral of the story is the more 
>> choice of TTS a screen reader company can offer, the better. Speech is 
>> extremely subjective.
>> Jonathan Mosen
>> Mosen Consulting
>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>> http://Mosen.org
>> 
>>> On 11/06/2015, at 6:28 am, christopher hallsworth  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Might be coming next year . Seriously though, I don't ever want Apple 
>>> to remove Alex. He's fantastic for someone with moderately severe to 
>>> profound hearing loss which I have. The other voices included are fine, but 
>>> doesn't cut it like Alex.
 On 10 Jun 2015, at 18:46, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Hi Ray. I don't really want Apple to get rid of Alex. I lve the fact that 
 he takes breaths and everything. I am with you on one thing though, I hope 
 Apple considers making the Siri voices available in El Capitan. After all, 
 you can get them for NVDA in Windows so why can't it be done on the Mac?
 
 Shawn
 Sent from my White MacBook
 
 
 
> On Jun 10, 2015, at 12:07 PM, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> Subject line pretty much says it all.  Nothing against Alex mind you: 
> but, frankly, I reckon it's high time Apple adopted a new and much more 
> updated default voice.  The new Siri male US English voice might perhaps 
> be a good choice.  Here's hoping we see this one in Elcapitan.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> 
> Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
> Sent from my Mac,
> the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
> 
> 
> --
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>

Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice

[Grant]

Eloquence is great because it is so familiar due to its popularity on a wide 
variety of screen readers and other assistive technology products. But 
realistically, it has not been in development since, I believe, the late 1990s. 
For some perspective on that, the first public version of Mac OS X was released 
in 2000. In my opinion, that age (of Eloquence) is starting to show. 
Specifically, I notice that Eloquence sounds quite stuttery on certain sound 
cards, like in VMWare virtual machines, where Vocalizer voices work fine. As 
well, I am sure many of you remember the fact that it crashes when certain 
strings are encountered. Screen reader developers have more or less worked 
around this issue, I assume with built-in dictionary rules, but I don’t know 
what the merits of investing in Eloquence would be in this day and age. I 
recall that NV Access invested considerable energy in working out a licensing 
deal to provide an option for their users to buy Eloquence, but they 
encountered considerable barriers that ultimately halted the project. These 
barriers included eventually being told that sales of the synthesizer had 
ceased.

All this is to say that I doubt we’ll see Eloquence in Mac OS X any time soon, 
but that is just my opinion. This message was written more or less from memory, 
so feel free to correct any errors of fact.

Grant

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Re: Messages

[Grant]

Hi,

You can sync iMessages between an iOS device and a Mac by signing into the same 
Apple ID on both devices. On a Mac, this can be done through the accounts tab 
in the messages app. On an iOS device, it can be configured in the Messages 
section of the settings app. Deleted messages, however, are not synced. You 
must manually delete messages on all devices.

Grant

> On Jun 10, 2015, at 10:44 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>  While in Messages on the Mac, I noticed  one message that I had deleted from 
> the iPhone. I looked in preferences but did not see a setting that would sync 
> this app on both Mac and iPhone. Is there a way to sync the two? Thanks.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> -- 
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Re: Messages

[E.T.]

   Ok thanks for that. I will just have to remember to do the 
housekeeping on all devices and make sure the spam texts are gone.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 6/11/2015 12:44 PM, Grant wrote:

Hi,

You can sync iMessages between an iOS device and a Mac by signing into the same 
Apple ID on both devices. On a Mac, this can be done through the accounts tab 
in the messages app. On an iOS device, it can be configured in the Messages 
section of the settings app. Deleted messages, however, are not synced. You 
must manually delete messages on all devices.

Grant


On Jun 10, 2015, at 10:44 PM, E.T.  wrote:

  While in Messages on the Mac, I noticed  one message that I had deleted from 
the iPhone. I looked in preferences but did not see a setting that would sync 
this app on both Mac and iPhone. Is there a way to sync the two? Thanks.

 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

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Re: claarification wanted with respect to using Messages for Facebook

[Andrew Lamanche]

How do you know that somebody is online to chat with?  The only thing I can see 
on facebook in Safari is the indication of how many people are on chat but I 
can't tell who is or is not available on chat.  Thanks for any tips.

Andrew
> On 11 Jun 2015, at 16:27, John D. Lipsey  wrote:
> 
> As far as I understand it, messages and chat for facebook are essentially the 
> same thing. If you chat someone and they’re offline, it shows up in their 
> messages for them to view later and respond to as they wish.  If you’re both 
> online, you can chat with each other in real time.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> DFTBA!
> 
> John D. Lipsey
> 
> mail: johnl1...@gmail.com 
> 
> Twitter: @J_TGL
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 09:00, Traci Duncan > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, I have one more question…
>> 
>> Is this Facebook chat or Facebook messages?  There is a difference, correct? 
>>  :)
>> 
>> Traci
>> 
>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 3:36 PM, Ray Foret Jr > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Ah, thanks.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>>> 
>>> Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Mac,
>>> the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
>>> 
 On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:31 PM, Tim Kilburn >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Not necessarily.  Your FaceBook username is usually different than your 
 eMail address that you may use to log into FaceBook.  It often is some 
 version of your name and usually, but not always, has a number attached to 
 it.
 
 So, for example:
 
 • Login to FaceBook with eMail joe.b...@gmail.com 
 
 • FaceBook username is Joe.Blow.8 which can be found at 
 www.facebook.com/username 
 • iMessage setup would use joe.blo...@chat.facebook.com 
 .
 
 So, it really has nothing to do with your eMail address.
 
 HTH.
 
 Later...
 
 Tim Kilburn
 Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
 On Jun 10, 2015, at 15:41, Ray Foret Jr >>> > wrote:
 
 Ah, so, when I put in my user name, I leave out the @comcast.net 
  part?
 
 
 Sincerely,
 The Constantly Barefooted Ray
 
 Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
 
 Sent from my Mac,
 the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
 
> On Jun 10, 2015, at 3:51 PM, christopher hallsworth 
> mailto:challswor...@icloud.com>> wrote:
> 
> Hi Ray
> 
> Nowhere near *smile*. It's your username at chat dot facebook dot com.
> 
> 
>> On 10 Jun 2015, at 21:49, Ray Foret Jr > > wrote:
>> 
>> Okay,
>> 
>> I've got the steps down for adding my Facebook account to Messages 
>> except for one thing.  When I enter the user name part, do they want 
>> just 
>> rforet7706 and not the e-mail server part?  In other words, should it 
>> look like this:
>> rforet7...@facebook.chat.com 
>> or should it look like this:
>> rforet7...@comcast.net @facebook.chat.com 
>> 
>> since 
>> rforet7...@comcast.net  is the user name 
>> I use?
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>> 
>> Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac,
>> the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
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>> .
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>> .
> 
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Re: synchronise files/folders privately

[John's Gmail]

You can buy your own cloud Drive from Western Digital. The product is called WD 
my cloud and costs approximately $150 for a 3 TB cloud Drive. It connects to 
your wireless router And is accessible to all your wireless devices or devices 
that are plugged into your router. I believe you can share your drive with 
other people however if you are looking for privacy it is password-protected 
and you do not have to give that password to anyone. It is my understanding 
that you can sign into your drive from anywhere that you have an Internet 
connection. 

I hope this is been some help. Good luck with it. I don't use it however a 
friend of mine was telling me about it.

John Harden
Quality Brailler Repair LLC

For professional Perkins Braille Writer repair.
 
386-846-1325
jharde...@cfl.rr.com 
145 N. Halifax Ave. #605
Daytona Beach, FL 32118



> On Jun 11, 2015, at 7:59 AM, William Windels  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Chris and others,
> Thx for the suggestion.
> I think this isn’t the solution I am waiting for because:
> Items aren’t offline available on the macbook since they are only stored on 
> the nas.
> Also, since iOS hasn’t a explorer built in , the backup from the iphone with 
> itunes should not give my acces to particular files/folders from the iphone.
> 
> It’s already possible to view files stored on the nas from iOS with the qfile 
> app from nap.
> 
> Many thanx for other suggestions.
> Kind regards,
> William Windels
> I only need a program/system that can synchronize files between my macbook 
> and other mac computers on one side  the nas on the other side. 
> 
>> Op 10-jun.-2015, om 23:15 heeft 'Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries 
>>  het volgende geschreven:
>> 
>> So if your iphone/ipad is synched/backed up to your Mac via iTunes then all 
>> the files are local on the Mac, not in icloud. If you could set iTunes to 
>> store these backups in a network drive from your NAS, would that not get you 
>> where you want to be?
>> 
>> CB
>> 
>> On 6/10/15 4:43 PM, William Windels wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>> I would like to sync files/folders with different devices: iphone/ipad and 
>>> also mac computers.
>>> There are many cloud-services that can handle this but I would like to 
>>> store it privately.
>>> For this, and other tasks, I have a nas device from qnap.
>>> It would be so nice If I can put files/folders on my mac, they are 
>>> synchronized to me nas and after synching , they are offline available on 
>>> my mac and iOS-devices…
>>> 
>>> I tought bitorent sync could handle this task but I can’t see yet how it 
>>> should work for me.
>>> Qsync, a plugin for the qnap nas should also handle the job but the sync 
>>> program for the mac seems not to work correctly.
>>> 
>>> If there are any other plugins, experiences or possibilities I can look 
>>> for, it would be great to hear of you.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards
>>> William Windels
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
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Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Hi. The thing I have against Eloquence and even ESpeak is because they are too 
robotic sounding. Actually, one of the reasons why I moved to the Mac back in 
2010 is because of Alex. When a friend of mine showed me how he took breaths 
when he reads and when watching Youtube videos with him on them, I was 
impressed with the way he sounded. Bottom line is, I moved to the Mac to get 
away from all robotic voices. Now I'm using Sharon from Acapela who I think is 
the best US English voice they made. In my opinion, like it or not, human 
natural voices are the future for us so I don't think Eloquence or eSpeak will 
ever come on to the Mac, especially if what that other poster said is true that 
Eloquence is discontinued.

Shawn
Sent from my White MacBook



> On Jun 11, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Jonathan,
> 
> I totally totally agree with you!  If we could get Eloquence on the mac, that 
> would probably be the happiest day of my life!  I am one of those who falls 
> into the category you mentioned regarding Alex.  I can use him, but I have to 
> keep it at the default speaking rate, and even then, with my hearing loss, I 
> have to pay fairly close attention.  Especially if I'm reading say, an entire 
> paragraph or whatever in one chunk.  Again, I can do it, but it's not easy.
> 
> I don't honestly know what so many people have against Eloquence.  Even the 
> Vocalizer voices I can't seem to really understand terribly well.  I can do 
> it, as I said, but not easily.  I can't ramp Eloquence up very fast, but I 
> definitely have it slightly faster than the default both on my JAWS and my 
> Window-eyes.
> 
> I know that Eloquence is also available for NVDA, but not legally, so there 
> went that idea.
> 
> I know there is a port for Eloquence done by Tylor Spivy of Eloquence that 
> works on the mac, but it's a bit tricky to get it working, and is incredibly 
> incredibly unstable.  I used it just long enough to see if it really actually 
> worked, but obviously took it off, 1, when I saw how unstable it was, and 2, 
> due to the fact it's also illegal.  Even had it worked flawlessly, I couldn't 
> have kept it in good concience.
> 
> I agree though, if there was a way to buy a mac ported stable mind you, 
> license for Eloquence, for OSX, I'd do it faster than a blink of an eye! Darn 
> straight I would!  It's really about the only synth I can not only 
> understand, but comfortably can listen to on and on for hours at a time.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "'Kevin Cussick' via MacVisionaries" 
> 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 2:17 PM
> Subject: Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice
> 
> 
> Well I use Fiona Compact and have it as fast as I can and love it. but
> each to there own.
> 
> On 10/06/2015 20:16, Jonathan Mosen wrote:
>> Hi Christopher. I think it depends on the hearing loss. I've worked with 
>> people for example with a hearing loss who find Alex unintelligible once you 
>> go a little above the default rate, but who can have compact Daniel cranked 
>> up remarkably fast.
>> Personally I'd be delighted to have Eloquence on my Mac because Alex 
>> mispronounces far too much for my liking. The moral of the story is the more 
>> choice of TTS a screen reader company can offer, the better. Speech is 
>> extremely subjective.
>> Jonathan Mosen
>> Mosen Consulting
>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>> http://Mosen.org
>> 
>>> On 11/06/2015, at 6:28 am, christopher hallsworth  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Might be coming next year . Seriously though, I don't ever want Apple 
>>> to remove Alex. He's fantastic for someone with moderately severe to 
>>> profound hearing loss which I have. The other voices included are fine, but 
>>> doesn't cut it like Alex.
 On 10 Jun 2015, at 18:46, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Hi Ray. I don't really want Apple to get rid of Alex. I lve the fact that 
 he takes breaths and everything. I am with you on one thing though, I hope 
 Apple considers making the Siri voices available in El Capitan. After all, 
 you can get them for NVDA in Windows so why can't it be done on the Mac?
 
 Shawn
 Sent from my White MacBook
 
 
 
> On Jun 10, 2015, at 12:07 PM, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> Subject line pretty much says it all.  Nothing against Alex mind you: 
> but, frankly, I reckon it's high time Apple adopted a new and much more 
> updated default voice.  The new Siri male US English voice might perhaps 
> be a good choice.  Here's hoping we see this one in Elcapitan.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> 
> Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
> Sent from my Mac,
> the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
> 
> 
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionar

Re: organizer suggestions?

[Christina C.]

Caitlyn, 

What does this things app offer that you cannot use the native reminders and 
Calendar app? I’m asking because maybe if you explain exactly what your needs 
are others can share what solutions they have found. I personally love using 
the reminders app for simple things but I have not tried anything too 
complicated.

Christina

> On Jun 10, 2015, at 8:55 AM, Caitlyn Furness  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I was recently pointed toward an app called things.  It’s for the mac, and 
> they have an i phone version.  It’s a to do list and scheduler on steroids!!  
> I would love to get it, but the price is very steep-about $60.
> 
> does anybody have suggestions for a good app like this which doesn’t cost an 
> arm and a leg?
> 
> thanks!
> Caitlyn
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: claarification wanted with respect to using Messages for Facebook

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

In Safari, although I don't use FaceBook chat on the web, VO announces their 
status.  So, if they're not on-line, it may say "John Smith, 2 hours" which I 
assume means that they haven't connected on FaceBook for that amount of time.  
It may also announce "Fred Flintstone, Mobile", or "Web-George Jetson" which I 
take to mean that they are on-line, available and using the device noted.

I prefer though the status lists in Messages which will tell you if your buddy 
is on-line or not.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 11, 2015, at 13:54, Andrew Lamanche  wrote:

How do you know that somebody is online to chat with?  The only thing I can see 
on facebook in Safari is the indication of how many people are on chat but I 
can't tell who is or is not available on chat.  Thanks for any tips.

Andrew
> On 11 Jun 2015, at 16:27, John D. Lipsey  > wrote:
> 
> As far as I understand it, messages and chat for facebook are essentially the 
> same thing. If you chat someone and they’re offline, it shows up in their 
> messages for them to view later and respond to as they wish.  If you’re both 
> online, you can chat with each other in real time.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> DFTBA!
> 
> John D. Lipsey
> 
> mail: johnl1...@gmail.com 
> 
> Twitter: @J_TGL
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 09:00, Traci Duncan > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, I have one more question…
>> 
>> Is this Facebook chat or Facebook messages?  There is a difference, correct? 
>>  :)
>> 
>> Traci
>> 
>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 3:36 PM, Ray Foret Jr > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Ah, thanks.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>>> 
>>> Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Mac,
>>> the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
>>> 
 On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:31 PM, Tim Kilburn >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Not necessarily.  Your FaceBook username is usually different than your 
 eMail address that you may use to log into FaceBook.  It often is some 
 version of your name and usually, but not always, has a number attached to 
 it.
 
 So, for example:
 
 • Login to FaceBook with eMail joe.b...@gmail.com 
 
 • FaceBook username is Joe.Blow.8 which can be found at 
 www.facebook.com/username 
 • iMessage setup would use joe.blo...@chat.facebook.com 
 .
 
 So, it really has nothing to do with your eMail address.
 
 HTH.
 
 Later...
 
 Tim Kilburn
 Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
 On Jun 10, 2015, at 15:41, Ray Foret Jr >>> > wrote:
 
 Ah, so, when I put in my user name, I leave out the @comcast.net 
  part?
 
 
 Sincerely,
 The Constantly Barefooted Ray
 
 Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
 
 Sent from my Mac,
 the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
 
> On Jun 10, 2015, at 3:51 PM, christopher hallsworth 
> mailto:challswor...@icloud.com>> wrote:
> 
> Hi Ray
> 
> Nowhere near *smile*. It's your username at chat dot facebook dot com.
> 
> 
>> On 10 Jun 2015, at 21:49, Ray Foret Jr > > wrote:
>> 
>> Okay,
>> 
>> I've got the steps down for adding my Facebook account to Messages 
>> except for one thing.  When I enter the user name part, do they want 
>> just 
>> rforet7706 and not the e-mail server part?  In other words, should it 
>> look like this:
>> rforet7...@facebook.chat.com 
>> or should it look like this:
>> rforet7...@comcast.net @facebook.chat.com 
>> 
>> since 
>> rforet7...@comcast.net  is the user name 
>> I use?
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
>> 
>> Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
>> 
>> Sent from my Mac,
>> the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries 
>> 

Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

I agree with Shawn.  I've not been a fan of Eloquence ever primarily due to how 
it sounds.  But, to each their own.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 11, 2015, at 14:11, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:

Hi. The thing I have against Eloquence and even ESpeak is because they are too 
robotic sounding. Actually, one of the reasons why I moved to the Mac back in 
2010 is because of Alex. When a friend of mine showed me how he took breaths 
when he reads and when watching Youtube videos with him on them, I was 
impressed with the way he sounded. Bottom line is, I moved to the Mac to get 
away from all robotic voices. Now I'm using Sharon from Acapela who I think is 
the best US English voice they made. In my opinion, like it or not, human 
natural voices are the future for us so I don't think Eloquence or eSpeak will 
ever come on to the Mac, especially if what that other poster said is true that 
Eloquence is discontinued.

Shawn
Sent from my White MacBook



> On Jun 11, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Jonathan,
> 
> I totally totally agree with you!  If we could get Eloquence on the mac, that 
> would probably be the happiest day of my life!  I am one of those who falls 
> into the category you mentioned regarding Alex.  I can use him, but I have to 
> keep it at the default speaking rate, and even then, with my hearing loss, I 
> have to pay fairly close attention.  Especially if I'm reading say, an entire 
> paragraph or whatever in one chunk.  Again, I can do it, but it's not easy.
> 
> I don't honestly know what so many people have against Eloquence.  Even the 
> Vocalizer voices I can't seem to really understand terribly well.  I can do 
> it, as I said, but not easily.  I can't ramp Eloquence up very fast, but I 
> definitely have it slightly faster than the default both on my JAWS and my 
> Window-eyes.
> 
> I know that Eloquence is also available for NVDA, but not legally, so there 
> went that idea.
> 
> I know there is a port for Eloquence done by Tylor Spivy of Eloquence that 
> works on the mac, but it's a bit tricky to get it working, and is incredibly 
> incredibly unstable.  I used it just long enough to see if it really actually 
> worked, but obviously took it off, 1, when I saw how unstable it was, and 2, 
> due to the fact it's also illegal.  Even had it worked flawlessly, I couldn't 
> have kept it in good concience.
> 
> I agree though, if there was a way to buy a mac ported stable mind you, 
> license for Eloquence, for OSX, I'd do it faster than a blink of an eye! Darn 
> straight I would!  It's really about the only synth I can not only 
> understand, but comfortably can listen to on and on for hours at a time.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "'Kevin Cussick' via MacVisionaries" 
> 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 2:17 PM
> Subject: Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice
> 
> 
> Well I use Fiona Compact and have it as fast as I can and love it. but
> each to there own.
> 
> On 10/06/2015 20:16, Jonathan Mosen wrote:
>> Hi Christopher. I think it depends on the hearing loss. I've worked with 
>> people for example with a hearing loss who find Alex unintelligible once you 
>> go a little above the default rate, but who can have compact Daniel cranked 
>> up remarkably fast.
>> Personally I'd be delighted to have Eloquence on my Mac because Alex 
>> mispronounces far too much for my liking. The moral of the story is the more 
>> choice of TTS a screen reader company can offer, the better. Speech is 
>> extremely subjective.
>> Jonathan Mosen
>> Mosen Consulting
>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>> http://Mosen.org
>> 
>>> On 11/06/2015, at 6:28 am, christopher hallsworth  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Might be coming next year . Seriously though, I don't ever want Apple 
>>> to remove Alex. He's fantastic for someone with moderately severe to 
>>> profound hearing loss which I have. The other voices included are fine, but 
>>> doesn't cut it like Alex.
 On 10 Jun 2015, at 18:46, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
 
 Hi Ray. I don't really want Apple to get rid of Alex. I lve the fact that 
 he takes breaths and everything. I am with you on one thing though, I hope 
 Apple considers making the Siri voices available in El Capitan. After all, 
 you can get them for NVDA in Windows so why can't it be done on the Mac?
 
 Shawn
 Sent from my White MacBook
 
 
 
> On Jun 10, 2015, at 12:07 PM, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> Subject line pretty much says it all.  Nothing against Alex mind you: 
> but, frankly, I reckon it's high time Apple adopted a new and much more 
> updated default voice.  The new Siri male US English voice might perhaps 
> be a good choice.  Here's hoping we see this one in Elcapitan.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> 
> Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
>>

Re: organizer suggestions?

[Nancy Badger]

Hello,
I have not looked at the things app that you all are talking about. However, I 
was recently at a Franklin Covey productivity training. They have an app which 
is very accessible. It is free unless you want to sync it with exchange or some 
other calendar. You can list your roles that is teacher, mother, spouse at 
Cetera.c then you can list your things to do under each role. You can 
prioritize things, and give them due dates. I like it a lot. Just my two cents.

Nancy Badger, Ph.D
Assistant Vice Chancellor, Student Services
UT Chattanooga
Sent from my iPhone with dictation software. Please excuse spelling errors.

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 5:36 AM, Caitlyn Furness  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi there,
> It’s in the mac app store.  I don’t know if there is a trial version or not..
> There has to be something less costly and that works with vo.
> 
> I am going to email the developer and see if they made it vo friendly later 
> today.
> 
> Thanks,
> Cait
> 
>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 8:07 PM, Shaf  wrote:
>> 
>> I can get a copy from  somewhere and test it out for accessibility?
>> 
>>> On 6/10/2015 11:33 PM, Caitlyn Furness wrote:
>>> I’m asking because I am hoping people here will have suggestions which are 
>>> both accessible *and* less expensive!!
>>> 
>>> I gave the name of the app so people could go read about what it does and 
>>> then hopefully make intelligent suggestions!
>>> 
>>> Sheesh-you guys amaze me at times!!
>>> thanks for any help, etc..
>>> Caitlyn
>>> 
 On Jun 10, 2015, at 11:10 AM, Shaf  wrote:
 
 Why would she be asking about it if she didn't have a clue on the 
 accessibility of the app?
 
 
> On 6/10/2015 4:09 PM, george b wrote:
> Well if she said it was to expensive why do you think she has it to 
> answer your question???
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shaf
> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 08:03
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: organizer suggestions?
> 
> How accessible is it, do you know?
> 
>> On 6/10/2015 3:55 PM, Caitlyn Furness wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I was recently pointed toward an app called things.  It’s for the mac, 
>> and they have an i phone version.  It’s a to do list and scheduler on 
>> steroids!!  I would love to get it, but the price is very steep-about 
>> $60.
>> 
>> does anybody have suggestions for a good app like this which doesn’t 
>> cost an arm and a leg?
>> 
>> thanks!
>> Caitlyn
>> 
 -- 
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 "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> 
>> -- 
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> 
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Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice

[Mary Otten]

I cannot imagine Apple moving from a good voice such as Alex to a robotic one 
like eloquence, much less the unusable, at least for me,  speak. Perhaps, if 
they ever get around to opening up the system so that you can use any voice you 
want, somebody will port espeak over, and then those who like it will be able 
to use it. But I believe eloquence has been dead for a few years now. It is not 
being developed. Somehow, I think it showed up for android. But I can't believe 
that was a legal development.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 1:32 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I agree with Shawn.  I've not been a fan of Eloquence ever primarily due to 
> how it sounds.  But, to each their own.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Jun 11, 2015, at 14:11, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi. The thing I have against Eloquence and even ESpeak is because they are 
> too robotic sounding. Actually, one of the reasons why I moved to the Mac 
> back in 2010 is because of Alex. When a friend of mine showed me how he took 
> breaths when he reads and when watching Youtube videos with him on them, I 
> was impressed with the way he sounded. Bottom line is, I moved to the Mac to 
> get away from all robotic voices. Now I'm using Sharon from Acapela who I 
> think is the best US English voice they made. In my opinion, like it or not, 
> human natural voices are the future for us so I don't think Eloquence or 
> eSpeak will ever come on to the Mac, especially if what that other poster 
> said is true that Eloquence is discontinued.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent from my White MacBook
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Jonathan,
>> 
>> I totally totally agree with you!  If we could get Eloquence on the mac, 
>> that would probably be the happiest day of my life!  I am one of those who 
>> falls into the category you mentioned regarding Alex.  I can use him, but I 
>> have to keep it at the default speaking rate, and even then, with my hearing 
>> loss, I have to pay fairly close attention.  Especially if I'm reading say, 
>> an entire paragraph or whatever in one chunk.  Again, I can do it, but it's 
>> not easy.
>> 
>> I don't honestly know what so many people have against Eloquence.  Even the 
>> Vocalizer voices I can't seem to really understand terribly well.  I can do 
>> it, as I said, but not easily.  I can't ramp Eloquence up very fast, but I 
>> definitely have it slightly faster than the default both on my JAWS and my 
>> Window-eyes.
>> 
>> I know that Eloquence is also available for NVDA, but not legally, so there 
>> went that idea.
>> 
>> I know there is a port for Eloquence done by Tylor Spivy of Eloquence that 
>> works on the mac, but it's a bit tricky to get it working, and is incredibly 
>> incredibly unstable.  I used it just long enough to see if it really 
>> actually worked, but obviously took it off, 1, when I saw how unstable it 
>> was, and 2, due to the fact it's also illegal.  Even had it worked 
>> flawlessly, I couldn't have kept it in good concience.
>> 
>> I agree though, if there was a way to buy a mac ported stable mind you, 
>> license for Eloquence, for OSX, I'd do it faster than a blink of an eye! 
>> Darn straight I would!  It's really about the only synth I can not only 
>> understand, but comfortably can listen to on and on for hours at a time.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "'Kevin Cussick' via MacVisionaries" 
>> 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 2:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice
>> 
>> 
>> Well I use Fiona Compact and have it as fast as I can and love it. but
>> each to there own.
>> 
>>> On 10/06/2015 20:16, Jonathan Mosen wrote:
>>> Hi Christopher. I think it depends on the hearing loss. I've worked with 
>>> people for example with a hearing loss who find Alex unintelligible once 
>>> you go a little above the default rate, but who can have compact Daniel 
>>> cranked up remarkably fast.
>>> Personally I'd be delighted to have Eloquence on my Mac because Alex 
>>> mispronounces far too much for my liking. The moral of the story is the 
>>> more choice of TTS a screen reader company can offer, the better. Speech is 
>>> extremely subjective.
>>> Jonathan Mosen
>>> Mosen Consulting
>>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>>> http://Mosen.org
>>> 
 On 11/06/2015, at 6:28 am, christopher hallsworth 
  wrote:
 
 Might be coming next year . Seriously though, I don't ever want 
 Apple to remove Alex. He's fantastic for someone with moderately severe to 
 profound hearing loss which I have. The other voices included are fine, 
 but doesn't cut it like Alex.
> On 10 Jun 2015, at 18:46, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi Ray. I don't really want Apple to get rid of Alex. I lve the fact that 
> he takes breaths and everything. I am with you on one thing though, I 
> hope Apple consider

Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Opening up the system so that people can do that sort of thing is probably 
never going to happen.  I don't see Apple moving in that direction.  It would 
open up far too many vulnerabilities that they pride themselves on not having.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 11, 2015, at 14:46, Mary Otten  wrote:

I cannot imagine Apple moving from a good voice such as Alex to a robotic one 
like eloquence, much less the unusable, at least for me,  speak. Perhaps, if 
they ever get around to opening up the system so that you can use any voice you 
want, somebody will port espeak over, and then those who like it will be able 
to use it. But I believe eloquence has been dead for a few years now. It is not 
being developed. Somehow, I think it showed up for android. But I can't believe 
that was a legal development.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 1:32 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I agree with Shawn.  I've not been a fan of Eloquence ever primarily due to 
> how it sounds.  But, to each their own.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Jun 11, 2015, at 14:11, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi. The thing I have against Eloquence and even ESpeak is because they are 
> too robotic sounding. Actually, one of the reasons why I moved to the Mac 
> back in 2010 is because of Alex. When a friend of mine showed me how he took 
> breaths when he reads and when watching Youtube videos with him on them, I 
> was impressed with the way he sounded. Bottom line is, I moved to the Mac to 
> get away from all robotic voices. Now I'm using Sharon from Acapela who I 
> think is the best US English voice they made. In my opinion, like it or not, 
> human natural voices are the future for us so I don't think Eloquence or 
> eSpeak will ever come on to the Mac, especially if what that other poster 
> said is true that Eloquence is discontinued.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent from my White MacBook
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Jonathan,
>> 
>> I totally totally agree with you!  If we could get Eloquence on the mac, 
>> that would probably be the happiest day of my life!  I am one of those who 
>> falls into the category you mentioned regarding Alex.  I can use him, but I 
>> have to keep it at the default speaking rate, and even then, with my hearing 
>> loss, I have to pay fairly close attention.  Especially if I'm reading say, 
>> an entire paragraph or whatever in one chunk.  Again, I can do it, but it's 
>> not easy.
>> 
>> I don't honestly know what so many people have against Eloquence.  Even the 
>> Vocalizer voices I can't seem to really understand terribly well.  I can do 
>> it, as I said, but not easily.  I can't ramp Eloquence up very fast, but I 
>> definitely have it slightly faster than the default both on my JAWS and my 
>> Window-eyes.
>> 
>> I know that Eloquence is also available for NVDA, but not legally, so there 
>> went that idea.
>> 
>> I know there is a port for Eloquence done by Tylor Spivy of Eloquence that 
>> works on the mac, but it's a bit tricky to get it working, and is incredibly 
>> incredibly unstable.  I used it just long enough to see if it really 
>> actually worked, but obviously took it off, 1, when I saw how unstable it 
>> was, and 2, due to the fact it's also illegal.  Even had it worked 
>> flawlessly, I couldn't have kept it in good concience.
>> 
>> I agree though, if there was a way to buy a mac ported stable mind you, 
>> license for Eloquence, for OSX, I'd do it faster than a blink of an eye! 
>> Darn straight I would!  It's really about the only synth I can not only 
>> understand, but comfortably can listen to on and on for hours at a time.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "'Kevin Cussick' via MacVisionaries" 
>> 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 2:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice
>> 
>> 
>> Well I use Fiona Compact and have it as fast as I can and love it. but
>> each to there own.
>> 
>>> On 10/06/2015 20:16, Jonathan Mosen wrote:
>>> Hi Christopher. I think it depends on the hearing loss. I've worked with 
>>> people for example with a hearing loss who find Alex unintelligible once 
>>> you go a little above the default rate, but who can have compact Daniel 
>>> cranked up remarkably fast.
>>> Personally I'd be delighted to have Eloquence on my Mac because Alex 
>>> mispronounces far too much for my liking. The moral of the story is the 
>>> more choice of TTS a screen reader company can offer, the better. Speech is 
>>> extremely subjective.
>>> Jonathan Mosen
>>> Mosen Consulting
>>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>>> http://Mosen.org
>>> 
 On 11/06/2015, at 6:28 am, christopher hallsworth 
  wrote:
 
 Might be coming next year . Seriously though, I don't ever want 
 Apple to remove Alex. He's fantastic for someone with moderately severe to 
 profound hearing l

selecting noncontiguous items in finder

[Christina C.]

Hello all,

I apologize but for the life of me I can’t remember how to do that. I remember 
how to turn cursor tracking on and off, but that is as far as I can get. I 
haven’t done this in over a year or more. Anyways, I can’t figure it out. I did 
a search for the term noncontiguous in the voiceOver help but no results came 
back. I’d appreciate any help. I have lots of files to select and move in a 
long list and I’d rather do it all in one move after I make my selections.

Thanks,
Christina

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Chess on a mac with a braille sense U2

[Matthew Dierckens]

Hi guys.
I had someone recently ask me about using a braille sense U2 with the chess 
application on the Mac.
Now, I haven't been able to test this with braille, as I don't have the U2 and 
also whenever I load chess, the computer will have a fit after a few moves and 
shut down.

Nevertheless, this person would like to know how to get the display to show the 
moves of the computer.
If they set it to where it  speaks the moves, then will they show up on the 
display?
If not, will they show up if they go into the speech history mode? I think 
there is a speech history mode with VO, I haven't had to use it. Any help would 
be greatly appreciated.

God bless.
Matthew Dierckens
Certified Assistive Technology Specialist
Macintosh, Windows and IOS  Trainer
U.S. number: 573-401-1018
Personal Email: matt.dierck...@me.com

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Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice

[Ray Foret Jr]

Well, I suspect that with a third party app like ITools on one's Mac, and a 
knowledge of the iPHone directories, one could in fact place the Siri male 
voice on the directory the iPHone uses for voice over and also the Mac's 
similar directlry.  This should be possible without jailbreaking one's phone.  
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray

Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!

Sent from my Mac,
the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 3:50 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Opening up the system so that people can do that sort of thing is probably 
> never going to happen.  I don't see Apple moving in that direction.  It would 
> open up far too many vulnerabilities that they pride themselves on not having.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
> On Jun 11, 2015, at 14:46, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I cannot imagine Apple moving from a good voice such as Alex to a robotic one 
> like eloquence, much less the unusable, at least for me,  speak. Perhaps, if 
> they ever get around to opening up the system so that you can use any voice 
> you want, somebody will port espeak over, and then those who like it will be 
> able to use it. But I believe eloquence has been dead for a few years now. It 
> is not being developed. Somehow, I think it showed up for android. But I 
> can't believe that was a legal development.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 1:32 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I agree with Shawn.  I've not been a fan of Eloquence ever primarily due to 
>> how it sounds.  But, to each their own.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 14:11, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi. The thing I have against Eloquence and even ESpeak is because they are 
>> too robotic sounding. Actually, one of the reasons why I moved to the Mac 
>> back in 2010 is because of Alex. When a friend of mine showed me how he took 
>> breaths when he reads and when watching Youtube videos with him on them, I 
>> was impressed with the way he sounded. Bottom line is, I moved to the Mac to 
>> get away from all robotic voices. Now I'm using Sharon from Acapela who I 
>> think is the best US English voice they made. In my opinion, like it or not, 
>> human natural voices are the future for us so I don't think Eloquence or 
>> eSpeak will ever come on to the Mac, especially if what that other poster 
>> said is true that Eloquence is discontinued.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent from my White MacBook
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jonathan,
>>> 
>>> I totally totally agree with you!  If we could get Eloquence on the mac, 
>>> that would probably be the happiest day of my life!  I am one of those who 
>>> falls into the category you mentioned regarding Alex.  I can use him, but I 
>>> have to keep it at the default speaking rate, and even then, with my 
>>> hearing loss, I have to pay fairly close attention.  Especially if I'm 
>>> reading say, an entire paragraph or whatever in one chunk.  Again, I can do 
>>> it, but it's not easy.
>>> 
>>> I don't honestly know what so many people have against Eloquence.  Even the 
>>> Vocalizer voices I can't seem to really understand terribly well.  I can do 
>>> it, as I said, but not easily.  I can't ramp Eloquence up very fast, but I 
>>> definitely have it slightly faster than the default both on my JAWS and my 
>>> Window-eyes.
>>> 
>>> I know that Eloquence is also available for NVDA, but not legally, so there 
>>> went that idea.
>>> 
>>> I know there is a port for Eloquence done by Tylor Spivy of Eloquence that 
>>> works on the mac, but it's a bit tricky to get it working, and is 
>>> incredibly incredibly unstable.  I used it just long enough to see if it 
>>> really actually worked, but obviously took it off, 1, when I saw how 
>>> unstable it was, and 2, due to the fact it's also illegal.  Even had it 
>>> worked flawlessly, I couldn't have kept it in good concience.
>>> 
>>> I agree though, if there was a way to buy a mac ported stable mind you, 
>>> license for Eloquence, for OSX, I'd do it faster than a blink of an eye! 
>>> Darn straight I would!  It's really about the only synth I can not only 
>>> understand, but comfortably can listen to on and on for hours at a time.
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - From: "'Kevin Cussick' via MacVisionaries" 
>>> 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 2:17 PM
>>> Subject: Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Well I use Fiona Compact and have it as fast as I can and love it. but
>>> each to there own.
>>> 
 On 10/06/2015 20:16, Jonathan Mosen wrote:
 Hi Christopher. I think it depends on the hearing loss. I've worked with 
 people for example with a hearing loss who find Alex unintelligible once 
 you go a little above the default rate, but who can

Re: selecting noncontiguous items in finder

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

No need to do anything with cursor tracking anymore.  Just use VO-cmd-return.  
The first time you hit the key combination, it will deselect the item you're 
on, so hit it a second time, then VO navigate to the next item and press 
VO-cmd-return again  Once you're done, press cmd-c to copy or whatever task you 
wish to do with them.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 11, 2015, at 14:50, Christina C.  wrote:

Hello all,

I apologize but for the life of me I can’t remember how to do that. I remember 
how to turn cursor tracking on and off, but that is as far as I can get. I 
haven’t done this in over a year or more. Anyways, I can’t figure it out. I did 
a search for the term noncontiguous in the voiceOver help but no results came 
back. I’d appreciate any help. I have lots of files to select and move in a 
long list and I’d rather do it all in one move after I make my selections.

Thanks,
Christina

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Re: selecting noncontiguous items in finder

[Eugenia Firth]

Ok, hi. 
You don’t need any more to turn cursor tracking on and off to select 
noncontinuous files in Finder. This also works in Mail. 

Get on top of your file list. I use command shift o to get to documents. 
Interact with the browser, and I guess you know that’s vo shift down arrow. 
Find the one you want and press control option command enter twice for the 
first one. Maybe you don’t have to do second time, but I always did. Then make 
sure you press control option down arrow to get your next one, and when you get 
there do what you did the first time to select the first one. After you have 
done them all, whatever you do, don’t press anything else except what you want 
to do with them or you will unselect them; this has happened to me several 
times. So if you want to copy, make sure you press command c right away so you 
don’t do that. 

Gigi 

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 3:50 PM, Christina C.  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I apologize but for the life of me I can’t remember how to do that. I 
> remember how to turn cursor tracking on and off, but that is as far as I can 
> get. I haven’t done this in over a year or more. Anyways, I can’t figure it 
> out. I did a search for the term noncontiguous in the voiceOver help but no 
> results came back. I’d appreciate any help. I have lots of files to select 
> and move in a long list and I’d rather do it all in one move after I make my 
> selections.
> 
> Thanks,
> Christina
> 
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Re: organizer suggestions?

[John's Gmail]

What is the name of the app and is it available in the App Store?
John Harden
Quality Brailler Repair LLC

For professional Perkins Braille Writer repair.
 
386-238-5871
jharde...@cfl.rr.com 
145 N. Halifax Ave. #605
Daytona Beach, FL 32118



> On Jun 11, 2015, at 4:42 PM, Nancy Badger  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I have not looked at the things app that you all are talking about. However, 
> I was recently at a Franklin Covey productivity training. They have an app 
> which is very accessible. It is free unless you want to sync it with exchange 
> or some other calendar. You can list your roles that is teacher, mother, 
> spouse at Cetera.c then you can list your things to do under each role. You 
> can prioritize things, and give them due dates. I like it a lot. Just my two 
> cents.
> 
> Nancy Badger, Ph.D
> Assistant Vice Chancellor, Student Services
> UT Chattanooga
> Sent from my iPhone with dictation software. Please excuse spelling errors.
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 5:36 AM, Caitlyn Furness  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi there,
>> It’s in the mac app store.  I don’t know if there is a trial version or not..
>> There has to be something less costly and that works with vo.
>> 
>> I am going to email the developer and see if they made it vo friendly later 
>> today.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Cait
>> 
>>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 8:07 PM, Shaf  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I can get a copy from  somewhere and test it out for accessibility?
>>> 
 On 6/10/2015 11:33 PM, Caitlyn Furness wrote:
 I’m asking because I am hoping people here will have suggestions which are 
 both accessible *and* less expensive!!
 
 I gave the name of the app so people could go read about what it does and 
 then hopefully make intelligent suggestions!
 
 Sheesh-you guys amaze me at times!!
 thanks for any help, etc..
 Caitlyn
 
> On Jun 10, 2015, at 11:10 AM, Shaf  wrote:
> 
> Why would she be asking about it if she didn't have a clue on the 
> accessibility of the app?
> 
> 
>> On 6/10/2015 4:09 PM, george b wrote:
>> Well if she said it was to expensive why do you think she has it to 
>> answer your question???
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shaf
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 08:03
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: organizer suggestions?
>> 
>> How accessible is it, do you know?
>> 
>>> On 6/10/2015 3:55 PM, Caitlyn Furness wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I was recently pointed toward an app called things.  It’s for the mac, 
>>> and they have an i phone version.  It’s a to do list and scheduler on 
>>> steroids!!  I would love to get it, but the price is very steep-about 
>>> $60.
>>> 
>>> does anybody have suggestions for a good app like this which doesn’t 
>>> cost an arm and a leg?
>>> 
>>> thanks!
>>> Caitlyn
>>> 
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>>> 
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>> 
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Re: Chess on a mac with a braille sense U2

[Alex Hall]

I don't think so, in either case. The problem is that Chess speaks using system 
speech, not VoiceOver, and system speech can't talk to braille, only VoiceOver 
can. I just had a look and, sadly, Chess offers no AppleScript control ability. 
Maybe the moves are displayed in the window, I'm not sure, but all I can think 
to suggest is the game log, which will likely get annoying to use after a 
while. I hope someone else has a better solution. Sorry.
> On Jun 11, 2015, at 4:51 PM, Matthew Dierckens  wrote:
> 
> Hi guys.
> I had someone recently ask me about using a braille sense U2 with the chess 
> application on the Mac.
> Now, I haven't been able to test this with braille, as I don't have the U2 
> and also whenever I load chess, the computer will have a fit after a few 
> moves and shut down.
> 
> Nevertheless, this person would like to know how to get the display to show 
> the moves of the computer.
> If they set it to where it  speaks the moves, then will they show up on the 
> display?
> If not, will they show up if they go into the speech history mode? I think 
> there is a speech history mode with VO, I haven't had to use it. Any help 
> would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> God bless.
> Matthew Dierckens
> Certified Assistive Technology Specialist
> Macintosh, Windows and IOS  Trainer
> U.S. number: 573-401-1018
> Personal Email: matt.dierck...@me.com
> 
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Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com

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Re: Chess on a mac with a braille sense U2

[Matthew Dierckens]

Hi Alex,
Good points here, and I actually didn't think about that when I sent my message.

God bless.
Matthew Dierckens
Certified Assistive Technology Specialist
Macintosh, Windows and IOS  Trainer
U.S. number: 573-401-1018
Personal Email: matt.dierck...@me.com

On Jun 11, 2015, at 18:19, Alex Hall  wrote:

I don't think so, in either case. The problem is that Chess speaks using system 
speech, not VoiceOver, and system speech can't talk to braille, only VoiceOver 
can. I just had a look and, sadly, Chess offers no AppleScript control ability. 
Maybe the moves are displayed in the window, I'm not sure, but all I can think 
to suggest is the game log, which will likely get annoying to use after a 
while. I hope someone else has a better solution. Sorry.
> On Jun 11, 2015, at 4:51 PM, Matthew Dierckens  > wrote:
> 
> Hi guys.
> I had someone recently ask me about using a braille sense U2 with the chess 
> application on the Mac.
> Now, I haven't been able to test this with braille, as I don't have the U2 
> and also whenever I load chess, the computer will have a fit after a few 
> moves and shut down.
> 
> Nevertheless, this person would like to know how to get the display to show 
> the moves of the computer.
> If they set it to where it  speaks the moves, then will they show up on the 
> display?
> If not, will they show up if they go into the speech history mode? I think 
> there is a speech history mode with VO, I haven't had to use it. Any help 
> would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> God bless.
> Matthew Dierckens
> Certified Assistive Technology Specialist
> Macintosh, Windows and IOS  Trainer
> U.S. number: 573-401-1018
> Personal Email: matt.dierck...@me.com 
> 
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--
Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com 

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Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice

[Devin Prater]

It was legal, but it costs $20 for users to get it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 3:46 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> I cannot imagine Apple moving from a good voice such as Alex to a robotic one 
> like eloquence, much less the unusable, at least for me,  speak. Perhaps, if 
> they ever get around to opening up the system so that you can use any voice 
> you want, somebody will port espeak over, and then those who like it will be 
> able to use it. But I believe eloquence has been dead for a few years now. It 
> is not being developed. Somehow, I think it showed up for android. But I 
> can't believe that was a legal development.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 1:32 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I agree with Shawn.  I've not been a fan of Eloquence ever primarily due to 
>> how it sounds.  But, to each their own.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 14:11, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi. The thing I have against Eloquence and even ESpeak is because they are 
>> too robotic sounding. Actually, one of the reasons why I moved to the Mac 
>> back in 2010 is because of Alex. When a friend of mine showed me how he took 
>> breaths when he reads and when watching Youtube videos with him on them, I 
>> was impressed with the way he sounded. Bottom line is, I moved to the Mac to 
>> get away from all robotic voices. Now I'm using Sharon from Acapela who I 
>> think is the best US English voice they made. In my opinion, like it or not, 
>> human natural voices are the future for us so I don't think Eloquence or 
>> eSpeak will ever come on to the Mac, especially if what that other poster 
>> said is true that Eloquence is discontinued.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent from my White MacBook
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jonathan,
>>> 
>>> I totally totally agree with you!  If we could get Eloquence on the mac, 
>>> that would probably be the happiest day of my life!  I am one of those who 
>>> falls into the category you mentioned regarding Alex.  I can use him, but I 
>>> have to keep it at the default speaking rate, and even then, with my 
>>> hearing loss, I have to pay fairly close attention.  Especially if I'm 
>>> reading say, an entire paragraph or whatever in one chunk.  Again, I can do 
>>> it, but it's not easy.
>>> 
>>> I don't honestly know what so many people have against Eloquence.  Even the 
>>> Vocalizer voices I can't seem to really understand terribly well.  I can do 
>>> it, as I said, but not easily.  I can't ramp Eloquence up very fast, but I 
>>> definitely have it slightly faster than the default both on my JAWS and my 
>>> Window-eyes.
>>> 
>>> I know that Eloquence is also available for NVDA, but not legally, so there 
>>> went that idea.
>>> 
>>> I know there is a port for Eloquence done by Tylor Spivy of Eloquence that 
>>> works on the mac, but it's a bit tricky to get it working, and is 
>>> incredibly incredibly unstable.  I used it just long enough to see if it 
>>> really actually worked, but obviously took it off, 1, when I saw how 
>>> unstable it was, and 2, due to the fact it's also illegal.  Even had it 
>>> worked flawlessly, I couldn't have kept it in good concience.
>>> 
>>> I agree though, if there was a way to buy a mac ported stable mind you, 
>>> license for Eloquence, for OSX, I'd do it faster than a blink of an eye! 
>>> Darn straight I would!  It's really about the only synth I can not only 
>>> understand, but comfortably can listen to on and on for hours at a time.
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - From: "'Kevin Cussick' via MacVisionaries" 
>>> 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 2:17 PM
>>> Subject: Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Well I use Fiona Compact and have it as fast as I can and love it. but
>>> each to there own.
>>> 
 On 10/06/2015 20:16, Jonathan Mosen wrote:
 Hi Christopher. I think it depends on the hearing loss. I've worked with 
 people for example with a hearing loss who find Alex unintelligible once 
 you go a little above the default rate, but who can have compact Daniel 
 cranked up remarkably fast.
 Personally I'd be delighted to have Eloquence on my Mac because Alex 
 mispronounces far too much for my liking. The moral of the story is the 
 more choice of TTS a screen reader company can offer, the better. Speech 
 is extremely subjective.
 Jonathan Mosen
 Mosen Consulting
 Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
 http://Mosen.org
 
> On 11/06/2015, at 6:28 am, christopher hallsworth 
>  wrote:
> 
> Might be coming next year . Seriously though, I don't ever want 
> Apple to remove Alex. He's fantastic for someone with moderately severe 
> to profound hearing loss which I have. The other voices included are 
> fine, but doesn't cut it like Ale

Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

There is enough documentation for a new TTS to be written.  It’s sparse, but it 
is there.  It’s simply a question of who will write the speech manager plug-in.

FMM, I appreciate that Apple and followers are opposed to anything retro, but I 
think there’s both enough evidence and enough interest to support the idea that 
some people will find a genuine formant synthesiser for OS X worthwhile.  I 
have said as much to Apple.  You could do the same.  I too would love to see 
Eloquence, though even DECTalk would be better than Fred.  There is a reason 
why these TTS engines have withstood the test of time, and great as Alex is, he 
is still concatenative, so he simply cannot accurately pronounce subtle words, 
especially foreign-derived ones, or work at the insane rates achievable on the 
dark side.

JMO.

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Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice

[Sadam Ahmed]

Like others on list I've played around with the solution that brings the 
Eloquence TTS to the Mac.


As pointed out it's horribly unstable.

If Apple can figure out a way of incorporating Eloquence in the next 
version of OS X I'd certainly be interested.


Alex has a very hard time announcing some names in Arabic and Somali my 
native languages.


Hope the Siri voices available in iOS 9 make  it into VoiceOver.

To be honest a lot of those voices need to go.

Not a lot has changed in terms of TTS since I got the Mac way back in 2010.

Sadam Ahmed

On 6/12/2015 6:32 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

I agree with Shawn.  I've not been a fan of Eloquence ever primarily due to how 
it sounds.  But, to each their own.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jun 11, 2015, at 14:11, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:

Hi. The thing I have against Eloquence and even ESpeak is because they are too 
robotic sounding. Actually, one of the reasons why I moved to the Mac back in 
2010 is because of Alex. When a friend of mine showed me how he took breaths 
when he reads and when watching Youtube videos with him on them, I was 
impressed with the way he sounded. Bottom line is, I moved to the Mac to get 
away from all robotic voices. Now I'm using Sharon from Acapela who I think is 
the best US English voice they made. In my opinion, like it or not, human 
natural voices are the future for us so I don't think Eloquence or eSpeak will 
ever come on to the Mac, especially if what that other poster said is true that 
Eloquence is discontinued.

Shawn
Sent from my White MacBook




On Jun 11, 2015, at 2:25 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
wrote:

Jonathan,

I totally totally agree with you!  If we could get Eloquence on the mac, that 
would probably be the happiest day of my life!  I am one of those who falls 
into the category you mentioned regarding Alex.  I can use him, but I have to 
keep it at the default speaking rate, and even then, with my hearing loss, I 
have to pay fairly close attention.  Especially if I'm reading say, an entire 
paragraph or whatever in one chunk.  Again, I can do it, but it's not easy.

I don't honestly know what so many people have against Eloquence.  Even the 
Vocalizer voices I can't seem to really understand terribly well.  I can do it, 
as I said, but not easily.  I can't ramp Eloquence up very fast, but I 
definitely have it slightly faster than the default both on my JAWS and my 
Window-eyes.

I know that Eloquence is also available for NVDA, but not legally, so there 
went that idea.

I know there is a port for Eloquence done by Tylor Spivy of Eloquence that 
works on the mac, but it's a bit tricky to get it working, and is incredibly 
incredibly unstable.  I used it just long enough to see if it really actually 
worked, but obviously took it off, 1, when I saw how unstable it was, and 2, 
due to the fact it's also illegal.  Even had it worked flawlessly, I couldn't 
have kept it in good concience.

I agree though, if there was a way to buy a mac ported stable mind you, license 
for Eloquence, for OSX, I'd do it faster than a blink of an eye! Darn straight 
I would!  It's really about the only synth I can not only understand, but 
comfortably can listen to on and on for hours at a time.

Chris.

- Original Message - From: "'Kevin Cussick' via MacVisionaries" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: time for Apple to get a new default voice


Well I use Fiona Compact and have it as fast as I can and love it. but
each to there own.

On 10/06/2015 20:16, Jonathan Mosen wrote:

Hi Christopher. I think it depends on the hearing loss. I've worked with people 
for example with a hearing loss who find Alex unintelligible once you go a 
little above the default rate, but who can have compact Daniel cranked up 
remarkably fast.
Personally I'd be delighted to have Eloquence on my Mac because Alex 
mispronounces far too much for my liking. The moral of the story is the more 
choice of TTS a screen reader company can offer, the better. Speech is 
extremely subjective.
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org


On 11/06/2015, at 6:28 am, christopher hallsworth  
wrote:

Might be coming next year . Seriously though, I don't ever want Apple to 
remove Alex. He's fantastic for someone with moderately severe to profound hearing 
loss which I have. The other voices included are fine, but doesn't cut it like Alex.

On 10 Jun 2015, at 18:46, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:

Hi Ray. I don't really want Apple to get rid of Alex. I lve the fact that he 
takes breaths and everything. I am with you on one thing though, I hope Apple 
considers making the Siri voices available in El Capitan. After all, you can 
get them for NVDA in Windows so why can't it be done on the Mac?

Shawn
Sent from my White MacBook




On Jun 10, 2015, at 12:07 PM, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:

Subject line pretty much says it all.  Nothing against Alex mind you: but, 
frank

Re: Using Apple script to script voiceover as one would make scripts for Windows screenreaders

[Nicholas Parsons]

I’ve written a few AppleScripts for VoiceOver but I’ve never written scripts 
for windows screen readers, though I have used some, so can’t really answer 
your question. sorry. Hopefully someone else on the list will be able to.

What I do know is, one can create AppleScripts which accessibly speak certain 
information from particular apps or perform certain functions in particular 
apps which might otherwise not be accessible with VoiceOver. However, this is 
often dependant on the scriptability of the particular app in question, not the 
scriptability of VoiceOver.

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