Weirdest thing I've ever seen! This! is bizarre!

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

OK, so, if this isn't totally bizarre, I don't know what is!

My best friend, who like me, is an Avid primary Mac user decided to 
install Mountain Lion yesterday.  So, he went to the app store with my 
help, and we bought and downloaded ML with his Apple ID.


All went perfectly, from what we could see at first.  I should add before 
we go any further that he has identically the same model macbook that I 
have... the mid 2010 stocked white 13 inch.  This system is not a macbook 
pro. Beware.  It is just the standard mid 2010 white 13 inch.


Anyhow, he went through the install window, and the system restarted as 
expected to finish the installation.  We hear the startup chime, and think 
all is well.  We give it a few minutes, then hit command+F5.  Sure enough, 
Voiceover came up with the Fred voice talking perfectly.  We were quite 
satisfied so far.  The progress indicator looked perfect, and was moving 
along just fine.  Once it reached 100%, the system restarted as expected. 
I told him get ready, here comes ML!  You're gonna love this.  Huhho! 
Boy? oh, boy? was I? wrong!  I should a said:  Get ready!  Here comes 
disaster!


We hear the chime, and wait? and wait, and wait some more? and continue 
waiting? and more waiting? and, oh, by the freaking way, did I by chance 
mention, waited?  LOL!  So now, great as I am, not just at the mac, but in 
general with trouble shooting technology, I'm  going, well? sh**!  Um? 
Like, uh, hmm! what the! Heck?  So here I am, trying to figure out, what 
in the God blessid heck happened, as I swear! we didn't do anything! out 
of the ordinary from anyone else.  So, I had him shut down, and simply 
restart by holding his power button down.  I know, bad? move, but what 
else were we gonna do!?  He was hung!  We kind a had no other choice of 
the matter.  It was either do that, or sit here and watch the perty apple 
whilst singing:  I haven't gotta clue, I don't know what to say, what the 
bird is wrong with it, all the do dah day.  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!  So, it 
reboots, we hear the chime, and again, we wait for all eternity.  Nothing 
happens.  Just that stupid little apple on the grey background that shows 
it's loading.  You know, kind a the Darwin boot loader, I guess you'd call 
it, ish.  No error messages that I know a, just the blasted thing not 
booting.  It's totally weird, as it said! it installed correctly.


So, the next thing I had 'em do, was to go into the hidden recovery 
partition by hitting command+R once he heard the startup chime.  That 
worked absolutely flawlessly.  He did hit the ML, not the Lion, Recovery 
Partition with no issue at all.  So I'm going:  Sh'sh'shew!  At least? 
that worked!  So, only cause I didn't feel like having him fetch an 
ethernet cord from the back of his desktop windows machine out in the 
living room, which would a waken his folks up, plus is way back in a 
cavinet which, yeah, good luck trying to get that tower pulled out to get 
back there with all the cords in the way...  LOL!  So, at my disgression, 
I had him go up to the airport icon in the menu bar instead, and connect 
to his wifi network.  That worked again, perfectly.  Once connected, I had 
him try to reinstall from the recovery partition.  That worked again 
perfectly.  Then the system restarted, but here's the weird thing.  Then, 
it went again through this stupid progression thing again.  It's almost 
like it repeated the installation.  it didn't sho anything different it 
was doing.  The extra components it had to download did go through 
successfully, so it's not like it got hung there.  Trust me.  We both 
watched the screen with Voiceover very closely.


Once this all was done, the system restarted a second time.  just as we 
thought he would be good to go, we hear the chime, lots of hard disk 
activity for about maybe 10 minutes, then no activity, and just regular 
fan noise, nothing unusual sounding.  It's not like his processor was over 
heating, as there wasn't any fan noise out of the ordinary.  I'd think the 
EFI would a kicked in causing the fan to rev up to cool down had there 
been an issue.  OK, yeah, there is the possibility he has a bad EFI, but 
it's real unlikely.  Especially being what I'm gonna tell you all we did 
here in just a second that proves that not to be the case.


So, you can imagine, by this point, I'm pulling my hair out trying to 
figure out what the hel., parden the language, is going on!


Finally it dawned on me, maybe, just? maybe, it's the PRam having issues. 
Again, it's really doubtful, I completely agree with you all, but at this 
point, we really had nothing to lose.  If you're wonderring, well D*** it, 
Chris? why didn't you think to have him go to disk utility and run a 
disk/permission verification and repair the disk/permissions, if needed. 
The only reason I didn't have him yet do that, is because not even a week 
ago literally! not even 7 days ago literally speaking, I myself had his 
macbook literally in my

Re: in Pages

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Harry,

To edit header and footer areas in Pages, you need to interact with the area 
then bring the mouse and do a simulated mouse click (VO-Shift-Space bar) to 
move the focus to that area. We teach all this in our Pages course.

Cheers,

Anne


On 27 Jul 2012, at 03:37, Harry Hogue wrote:

> Do you happen to have any suggestions for using headers and footers in Pages 
> with regards to Quick Nav?  As I play with business letter templates, I am 
> noticin you have to select each word/phrase to of the placeholder text you 
> want replaced and write in your repalcement, which works fine.  The issue 
> comes when trying to move to the header and footers to enter information.  
> You seem to need quick nav for this, but then I am unable to edit anything in 
> the header or footer areas.  I just wondered if you had any thoughts?  I have 
> gotten used to Quick nav, but I may turn it of and go about without using it, 
> since it is really less useful than I always thought it was.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Harry

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Re: Weirdest thing I've ever seen! This! is bizarre!

[Daniel Montalvo]

I'm sorry to tell you, but this is something that sometimes happens.
This happened to me when updating to lion 10.7.3 I think it was. The
only thing my Imac did was showing that bitten Apple for ours. Once I
got sure that nothing else happened in my Imac screen I was forced to
use the Command R at startup to bring up the Recovery mode. You can
reinstall from the Internet but first you'll have to erase the whole
disk. Also, you have to be aware that we need to use the ethernet
port, since we are not able to access the wifi settings icon that the
recovery partition has. I recommend you to erase your friend's disk by
going to disk utility > Partitions and there choose one single
partition. Hope it helps. It's a very tedious thing but your friend is
going to have Lion at the end. You can shorten the process, however,
if someone (or yourself) create a startup Mountain Lion disk and then
try to boot from that disk by pressing the option key at startup and
then pressing right arrow and enter.

If you ahve any questions, we're here to try to help you.

2012/7/27, Christopher-Mark Gilland :
>> OK, so, if this isn't totally bizarre, I don't know what is!
>>
>> My best friend, who like me, is an Avid primary Mac user decided to
>> install Mountain Lion yesterday.  So, he went to the app store with my
>> help, and we bought and downloaded ML with his Apple ID.
>>
>> All went perfectly, from what we could see at first.  I should add before
>>
>> we go any further that he has identically the same model macbook that I
>> have... the mid 2010 stocked white 13 inch.  This system is not a macbook
>>
>> pro. Beware.  It is just the standard mid 2010 white 13 inch.
>>
>> Anyhow, he went through the install window, and the system restarted as
>> expected to finish the installation.  We hear the startup chime, and think
>>
>> all is well.  We give it a few minutes, then hit command+F5.  Sure enough,
>>
>> Voiceover came up with the Fred voice talking perfectly.  We were quite
>> satisfied so far.  The progress indicator looked perfect, and was moving
>> along just fine.  Once it reached 100%, the system restarted as expected.
>>
>> I told him get ready, here comes ML!  You're gonna love this.  Huhho!
>> Boy? oh, boy? was I? wrong!  I should a said:  Get ready!  Here comes
>> disaster!
>>
>> We hear the chime, and wait? and wait, and wait some more? and continue
>> waiting? and more waiting? and, oh, by the freaking way, did I by chance
>> mention, waited?  LOL!  So now, great as I am, not just at the mac, but in
>>
>> general with trouble shooting technology, I'm  going, well? sh**!  Um?
>> Like, uh, hmm! what the! Heck?  So here I am, trying to figure out, what
>> in the God blessid heck happened, as I swear! we didn't do anything! out
>> of the ordinary from anyone else.  So, I had him shut down, and simply
>> restart by holding his power button down.  I know, bad? move, but what
>> else were we gonna do!?  He was hung!  We kind a had no other choice of
>> the matter.  It was either do that, or sit here and watch the perty apple
>>
>> whilst singing:  I haven't gotta clue, I don't know what to say, what the
>>
>> bird is wrong with it, all the do dah day.  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!  So, it
>> reboots, we hear the chime, and again, we wait for all eternity.  Nothing
>>
>> happens.  Just that stupid little apple on the grey background that shows
>>
>> it's loading.  You know, kind a the Darwin boot loader, I guess you'd call
>>
>> it, ish.  No error messages that I know a, just the blasted thing not
>> booting.  It's totally weird, as it said! it installed correctly.
>>
>> So, the next thing I had 'em do, was to go into the hidden recovery
>> partition by hitting command+R once he heard the startup chime.  That
>> worked absolutely flawlessly.  He did hit the ML, not the Lion, Recovery
>> Partition with no issue at all.  So I'm going:  Sh'sh'shew!  At least?
>>
>> that worked!  So, only cause I didn't feel like having him fetch an
>> ethernet cord from the back of his desktop windows machine out in the
>> living room, which would a waken his folks up, plus is way back in a
>> cavinet which, yeah, good luck trying to get that tower pulled out to get
>>
>> back there with all the cords in the way...  LOL!  So, at my disgression,
>>
>> I had him go up to the airport icon in the menu bar instead, and connect
>> to his wifi network.  That worked again, perfectly.  Once connected, I had
>>
>> him try to reinstall from the recovery partition.  That worked again
>> perfectly.  Then the system restarted, but here's the weird thing.  Then,
>>
>> it went again through this stupid progression thing again.  It's almost
>> like it repeated the installation.  it didn't sho anything different it
>> was doing.  The extra components it had to download did go through
>> successfully, so it's not like it got hung there.  Trust me.  We both
>> watched the screen with Voiceover very closely.
>>
>> Once this all was done, the system restarted a second tim

Re: interesting behavior with Mail

[Greg Aikens]

I have also observed this.  It will take some getting used to.

-Greg
On Jul 27, 2012, at 1:50 AM, Shen  wrote:

> Hi all,
> I discovered something new with Mail in Mountain Lion. It's not a big thing, 
> but worth keeping in mind.
> First, my Mail is in classic view. When going through a large amount of 
> emails, I usually stay on the subject column since the sender column doesn't 
> always tell me what the email is about.
> My mail is sorted with the oldest at the top and newest on the bottom, but 
> this might not make a difference.
> I start at the top of the table of messages. Typically, when I press delete, 
> the email gets moved away and the next email takes it's place, this is the 
> email below the first email if you press the down arrow key.
> OK, so far, this has been the case with all previous versions of Mail.
> The new twist is that when you press the delete button, the next message that 
> comes under focus depends on which arrow key you last pressed.
> So if the last arrow key you pressed was down, the focus will move down when 
> you press the delete key. However, if your last arrow key was up arrow, be 
> careful, when you press delete, VoiceOver focus moves up and not down.
> Not sure what kind of benefit this provides, but there it is.
> 
> -- 
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> 

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Re: voice over voices inside mountain lion:

[Lisette Wesseling]

Hi Ricardo
Karen premium and Serena still change pitch randomly. The pronunciation is 
better though.
Cheers
Lisette

On 27/07/2012, at 6:37 PM, Ricardo Walker  wrote:

> There the same voices but, they have been improoved a bit.  There is really 
> no more instance of the premium voices pitch changing randomly.
> 
> Ricardo Walker
> rica...@appletothecore.info
> Twitter:@apple2thecore
> www.appletothecore.info
> 
> On Jul 26, 2012, at 7:53 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
>> Are these new to Mountain Lion, or are they the Nuance voices Lion 
>> introduced?
>> 
>> On 7/26/12, Mark BurningHawk Baxter  wrote:
>>> Yes, there are different voices with Mountain Lion that you can download.
>>> Yes, you can switch to British, Australian or even SOuth African or Indian
>>> English.
>>> 
>>> • Mark BurningHawk Baxter
>>> • AIM, Skype and Twitter:  BurningHawk1969
>>> • MSN:  burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
>>> • My home page:
>>> • http://MarkBurningHawk.net/
>>> 
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Have a great day,
>> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
>> mehg...@gmail.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: Weirdest thing I've ever seen! This! is bizarre!

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Daniel,

I'm not at all in the least meaning this to be rude, ok? but, I think you're 
ever so slightly confused.


I'm not trying to get him up on Lion, firstly and foremost.

Second of all, I'm perfectly aware of what you said regarding the wi fi 
thing not working in recovery mode in Lion.  Again, this is Mountain Lion 
though, and in Mountain Lion, they fixed it.


Now in ML, you most certainly, can! get to the wifi icon.  It isn't 
correctly labeled, no, that, I'll give ya, but, it is! definitely focusable, 
I promise you.


Basically, in Mountain Lion, once you select your default language, then you 
go to the menu bar with vo+M twice, you want to then vo+left arrow as far as 
you can to the left, then vo+right arrow one time.  That second icon over is 
your airport wireless.  If you hit vo+down arrow there, you can get at the 
wireless networks in range, and just as you would do, if you were actually 
booted into the OS itself, if the network is secured, you just type the key, 
then go down and hit join, like you would do normally, and boom.


Believe me, it does work in ML 10.8.  Not? in Lion 10.7, it doesn't, you're 
right, but in ML, it does.


Chris.
- Original Message - 
From: "Daniel Montalvo" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: Weirdest thing I've ever seen! This! is bizarre!



I'm sorry to tell you, but this is something that sometimes happens.
This happened to me when updating to lion 10.7.3 I think it was. The
only thing my Imac did was showing that bitten Apple for ours. Once I
got sure that nothing else happened in my Imac screen I was forced to
use the Command R at startup to bring up the Recovery mode. You can
reinstall from the Internet but first you'll have to erase the whole
disk. Also, you have to be aware that we need to use the ethernet
port, since we are not able to access the wifi settings icon that the
recovery partition has. I recommend you to erase your friend's disk by
going to disk utility > Partitions and there choose one single
partition. Hope it helps. It's a very tedious thing but your friend is
going to have Lion at the end. You can shorten the process, however,
if someone (or yourself) create a startup Mountain Lion disk and then
try to boot from that disk by pressing the option key at startup and
then pressing right arrow and enter.

If you ahve any questions, we're here to try to help you.

2012/7/27, Christopher-Mark Gilland :

OK, so, if this isn't totally bizarre, I don't know what is!

My best friend, who like me, is an Avid primary Mac user decided to
install Mountain Lion yesterday.  So, he went to the app store with my
help, and we bought and downloaded ML with his Apple ID.

All went perfectly, from what we could see at first.  I should add 
before


we go any further that he has identically the same model macbook that I
have... the mid 2010 stocked white 13 inch.  This system is not a 
macbook


pro. Beware.  It is just the standard mid 2010 white 13 inch.

Anyhow, he went through the install window, and the system restarted as
expected to finish the installation.  We hear the startup chime, and 
think


all is well.  We give it a few minutes, then hit command+F5.  Sure 
enough,


Voiceover came up with the Fred voice talking perfectly.  We were quite
satisfied so far.  The progress indicator looked perfect, and was moving
along just fine.  Once it reached 100%, the system restarted as 
expected.


I told him get ready, here comes ML!  You're gonna love this.  Huhho!
Boy? oh, boy? was I? wrong!  I should a said:  Get ready!  Here comes
disaster!

We hear the chime, and wait? and wait, and wait some more? and continue
waiting? and more waiting? and, oh, by the freaking way, did I by chance
mention, waited?  LOL!  So now, great as I am, not just at the mac, but 
in


general with trouble shooting technology, I'm  going, well? sh**!  Um?
Like, uh, hmm! what the! Heck?  So here I am, trying to figure out, what
in the God blessid heck happened, as I swear! we didn't do anything! out
of the ordinary from anyone else.  So, I had him shut down, and simply
restart by holding his power button down.  I know, bad? move, but what
else were we gonna do!?  He was hung!  We kind a had no other choice of
the matter.  It was either do that, or sit here and watch the perty 
apple


whilst singing:  I haven't gotta clue, I don't know what to say, what 
the


bird is wrong with it, all the do dah day.  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!  So, it
reboots, we hear the chime, and again, we wait for all eternity. 
Nothing


happens.  Just that stupid little apple on the grey background that 
shows


it's loading.  You know, kind a the Darwin boot loader, I guess you'd 
call


it, ish.  No error messages that I know a, just the blasted thing not
booting.  It's totally weird, as it said! it installed correctly.

So, the next thing I had 'em do, was to go into the hidden recovery
partition by hitting command+R once he heard the startup chime.  That
worked absolutely flawle

Re: Braille Support Broken in Mountain Lion!

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

Hi All.

I've decided to bite the bullet and upgrade to Mountain Lion this weekend and 
am going to see what happens when I connect my Euro Braille via blue Tooth. If 
it is broken, I'll let you all know. 

I wish Mountain Lion was available on a memory stick as I bought Lion on a 
stick from the Apple Store. Alas!

Kawal.

On 26 Jul 2012, at 02:01 PM, Steve Holmes  wrote:

> OK, I just hooked up my Refreshabraille via the USB cable and that seems to 
> be working.  So I have issues pairing the bluetooth side of things with this 
> braille display.  Makes me wonder if other bluetooth displays are 
> experiencing any similar problems.
> 
> On Jul 26, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Steve Holmes  wrote:
> 
>> I'll get out my USB cable for the Refreshabraille to see if that makes any 
>> difference.  I just know the bluetooth seems broken here.  I also plan to 
>> call Apple today on it to see if any issue can be raised or if the pairing 
>> procedure might have changed some how.  It just disturbed me greatly when I 
>> heard stuff about being unable to load or find a driver for the device.
>> 
>> On Jul 25, 2012, at 11:34 PM, Johanna Herranen 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi folks,
>>> I'm successfully using Baum VarioConnect 32 here with Mountain Lion. It's 
>>> connected via USB, but I could try Bluetooth too - out of curiosity. 
>>> Speaking of Braille suppor though, I wish one day they would fix all the 
>>> issues with International braille tables. 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 26, 2012, at 7:16 AM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland" 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
 OK, but wait a minute.
 
 Can we be absolutely sure it's indeed braille display support in a whole 
 that is messed up?  Sounds like you're using a bluetooth display.  Could 
 it be that the issue only lies with BT displays, and not with regular 
 connected u s b's?
 
 I'll have my best friend tonight, if I get ahold of him try it with his PM 
 40 display.  It's not from the Omni, mind you, it's just the original 
 display, but I know for a definite it worked in Lion, as he just left here 
 from out of town about two days ago, and had the thing with him down here, 
 and it was working great on LIon at that time, so who knows about M L 
 though.  I hope it works, as if not, that'll be a deal breaker for him, 
 seeing that he's an interpretor/translator.
 
 Chris.
 
 - Original Message - From: "Steve Holmes" 
 
 To: 
 Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:06 AM
 Subject: Braille Support Broken in Mountain Lion!
 
 
 I just tried to use my RefreshaBraille 18 display this evening and it 
 doesn't work here anymore.  First off, I had previously defined it under 
 Lion and successfully used it several times.  Tonight after the ML 
 install, it would never connect.  So then I removed the device from the 
 bluetooth list in the Braille device section of VO.  Then when I tried to 
 pair it back up, I kept getting an error that VO couldn't load a device 
 driver for this device.  Has anyone else had success getting any braille 
 displays to work under Mountain Lion?
 
 I will probably give Apple a call about this.  I sure hope they didn't 
 break support like they did with the Hims devices on IOS.  BTW, I never 
 got prompted to enter any pairing codes and I usually do when hooking up 
 the Refreshabraille display.
 
 Any ideas here?
 
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>>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: voice over voices inside mountain lion:

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi,

I haven't noticed pitch changing randomly.   At least, not with the American 
voices.  The pitch will change when encountering certain things like, a link in 
an e-mail for example.

Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info

On Jul 27, 2012, at 3:59 AM, Lisette Wesseling  
wrote:

> Hi Ricardo
> Karen premium and Serena still change pitch randomly. The pronunciation is 
> better though.
> Cheers
> Lisette
> 
> On 27/07/2012, at 6:37 PM, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
> 
>> There the same voices but, they have been improoved a bit.  There is really 
>> no more instance of the premium voices pitch changing randomly.
>> 
>> Ricardo Walker
>> rica...@appletothecore.info
>> Twitter:@apple2thecore
>> www.appletothecore.info
>> 
>> On Jul 26, 2012, at 7:53 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>> 
>>> Are these new to Mountain Lion, or are they the Nuance voices Lion 
>>> introduced?
>>> 
>>> On 7/26/12, Mark BurningHawk Baxter  wrote:
 Yes, there are different voices with Mountain Lion that you can download.
 Yes, you can switch to British, Australian or even SOuth African or Indian
 English.
 
 • Mark BurningHawk Baxter
 • AIM, Skype and Twitter:  BurningHawk1969
 • MSN:  burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
 • My home page:
 • http://MarkBurningHawk.net/
 
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 http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Have a great day,
>>> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
>>> mehg...@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> -- 
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Re: Weirdest thing I've ever seen! This! is bizarre!

[Chris Moore]

Chris,

Did your friend by chance have a password login enabled on startup?

A few users (including myself) have had ML not speak at startup despite the 
option being ticked in system preferences.  I had to actually hit command + F5 
at the login screen to activate it and untick and tick the box a couple of 
times in system preferences.  Seems a tad buggy, but worked on my iMac ok, just 
had issues on Macbook Pro.

Chris 
On 27 Jul 2012, at 08:02, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
wrote:

>> OK, so, if this isn't totally bizarre, I don't know what is!
>> 
>> My best friend, who like me, is an Avid primary Mac user decided to install 
>> Mountain Lion yesterday.  So, he went to the app store with my help, and we 
>> bought and downloaded ML with his Apple ID.
>> 
>> All went perfectly, from what we could see at first.  I should add before we 
>> go any further that he has identically the same model macbook that I have... 
>> the mid 2010 stocked white 13 inch.  This system is not a macbook pro. 
>> Beware.  It is just the standard mid 2010 white 13 inch.
>> 
>> Anyhow, he went through the install window, and the system restarted as 
>> expected to finish the installation.  We hear the startup chime, and think 
>> all is well.  We give it a few minutes, then hit command+F5.  Sure enough, 
>> Voiceover came up with the Fred voice talking perfectly.  We were quite 
>> satisfied so far.  The progress indicator looked perfect, and was moving 
>> along just fine.  Once it reached 100%, the system restarted as expected. I 
>> told him get ready, here comes ML!  You're gonna love this.  Huhho! Boy? oh, 
>> boy? was I? wrong!  I should a said:  Get ready!  Here comes disaster!
>> 
>> We hear the chime, and wait? and wait, and wait some more? and continue 
>> waiting? and more waiting? and, oh, by the freaking way, did I by chance 
>> mention, waited?  LOL!  So now, great as I am, not just at the mac, but in 
>> general with trouble shooting technology, I'm  going, well? sh**!  Um? Like, 
>> uh, hmm! what the! Heck?  So here I am, trying to figure out, what in the 
>> God blessid heck happened, as I swear! we didn't do anything! out of the 
>> ordinary from anyone else.  So, I had him shut down, and simply restart by 
>> holding his power button down.  I know, bad? move, but what else were we 
>> gonna do!?  He was hung!  We kind a had no other choice of the matter.  It 
>> was either do that, or sit here and watch the perty apple whilst singing:  I 
>> haven't gotta clue, I don't know what to say, what the bird is wrong with 
>> it, all the do dah day.  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!  So, it reboots, we hear the 
>> chime, and again, we wait for all eternity.  Nothing happens.  Just that 
>> stupid little apple on the grey background that shows it's loading.  You 
>> know, kind a the Darwin boot loader, I guess you'd call it, ish.  No error 
>> messages that I know a, just the blasted thing not booting.  It's totally 
>> weird, as it said! it installed correctly.
>> 
>> So, the next thing I had 'em do, was to go into the hidden recovery 
>> partition by hitting command+R once he heard the startup chime.  That worked 
>> absolutely flawlessly.  He did hit the ML, not the Lion, Recovery Partition 
>> with no issue at all.  So I'm going:  Sh'sh'shew!  At least? that 
>> worked!  So, only cause I didn't feel like having him fetch an ethernet cord 
>> from the back of his desktop windows machine out in the living room, which 
>> would a waken his folks up, plus is way back in a cavinet which, yeah, good 
>> luck trying to get that tower pulled out to get back there with all the 
>> cords in the way...  LOL!  So, at my disgression, I had him go up to the 
>> airport icon in the menu bar instead, and connect to his wifi network.  That 
>> worked again, perfectly.  Once connected, I had him try to reinstall from 
>> the recovery partition.  That worked again perfectly.  Then the system 
>> restarted, but here's the weird thing.  Then, it went again through this 
>> stupid progression thing again.  It's almost like it repeated the 
>> installation.  it didn't sho anything different it was doing.  The extra 
>> components it had to download did go through successfully, so it's not like 
>> it got hung there.  Trust me.  We both watched the screen with Voiceover 
>> very closely.
>> 
>> Once this all was done, the system restarted a second time.  just as we 
>> thought he would be good to go, we hear the chime, lots of hard disk 
>> activity for about maybe 10 minutes, then no activity, and just regular fan 
>> noise, nothing unusual sounding.  It's not like his processor was over 
>> heating, as there wasn't any fan noise out of the ordinary.  I'd think the 
>> EFI would a kicked in causing the fan to rev up to cool down had there been 
>> an issue.  OK, yeah, there is the possibility he has a bad EFI, but it's 
>> real unlikely.  Especially being what I'm gonna tell you all we did here in 
>> just a second that proves that not to be the case

Re: voice over voices inside mountain lion:

[Chris Moore]

I agree, no issues here with the UK voices either.  Just works like iOS now 
where the voice pitch will change on certain elements.
On 27 Jul 2012, at 09:41, Ricardo Walker  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I haven't noticed pitch changing randomly.   At least, not with the American 
> voices.  The pitch will change when encountering certain things like, a link 
> in an e-mail for example.
> 
> Ricardo Walker
> rica...@appletothecore.info
> Twitter:@apple2thecore
> www.appletothecore.info
> 
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 3:59 AM, Lisette Wesseling  
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Ricardo
>> Karen premium and Serena still change pitch randomly. The pronunciation is 
>> better though.
>> Cheers
>> Lisette
>> 
>> On 27/07/2012, at 6:37 PM, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
>> 
>>> There the same voices but, they have been improoved a bit.  There is really 
>>> no more instance of the premium voices pitch changing randomly.
>>> 
>>> Ricardo Walker
>>> rica...@appletothecore.info
>>> Twitter:@apple2thecore
>>> www.appletothecore.info
>>> 
>>> On Jul 26, 2012, at 7:53 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>> 
 Are these new to Mountain Lion, or are they the Nuance voices Lion 
 introduced?
 
 On 7/26/12, Mark BurningHawk Baxter  wrote:
> Yes, there are different voices with Mountain Lion that you can download.
> Yes, you can switch to British, Australian or even SOuth African or Indian
> English.
> 
> • Mark BurningHawk Baxter
> • AIM, Skype and Twitter:  BurningHawk1969
> • MSN:  burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
> • My home page:
> • http://MarkBurningHawk.net/
> 
> --
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> 
 
 
 -- 
 Have a great day,
 Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
 mehg...@gmail.com
 
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>>> 
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Re: Weirdest thing I've ever seen! This! is bizarre!

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Absolutely not.

He had it set to log him in automatically from the very beginning as far 
back as when he first bought the thing and had Snow Leopard on it.


He's never ever! had a pwd with the log on screen, ever.

Good observation, but, no.

I mean he can't even hit fn+F1 and F2 to move the screen brightness.  He has 
light preception and so I had him try that, and even that, at the time 
during the crash, didn't work.  Obviusly, it works now that he redooped the 
drive, but, before that, forget it.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Chris Moore" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:55 AM
Subject: Re: Weirdest thing I've ever seen! This! is bizarre!


Chris,

Did your friend by chance have a password login enabled on startup?

A few users (including myself) have had ML not speak at startup despite the 
option being ticked in system preferences.  I had to actually hit command + 
F5 at the login screen to activate it and untick and tick the box a couple 
of times in system preferences.  Seems a tad buggy, but worked on my iMac 
ok, just had issues on Macbook Pro.


Chris
On 27 Jul 2012, at 08:02, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
wrote:



OK, so, if this isn't totally bizarre, I don't know what is!

My best friend, who like me, is an Avid primary Mac user decided to 
install Mountain Lion yesterday.  So, he went to the app store with my 
help, and we bought and downloaded ML with his Apple ID.


All went perfectly, from what we could see at first.  I should add before 
we go any further that he has identically the same model macbook that I 
have... the mid 2010 stocked white 13 inch.  This system is not a macbook 
pro. Beware.  It is just the standard mid 2010 white 13 inch.


Anyhow, he went through the install window, and the system restarted as 
expected to finish the installation.  We hear the startup chime, and 
think all is well.  We give it a few minutes, then hit command+F5.  Sure 
enough, Voiceover came up with the Fred voice talking perfectly.  We were 
quite satisfied so far.  The progress indicator looked perfect, and was 
moving along just fine.  Once it reached 100%, the system restarted as 
expected. I told him get ready, here comes ML!  You're gonna love this. 
Huhho! Boy? oh, boy? was I? wrong!  I should a said:  Get ready!  Here 
comes disaster!


We hear the chime, and wait? and wait, and wait some more? and continue 
waiting? and more waiting? and, oh, by the freaking way, did I by chance 
mention, waited?  LOL!  So now, great as I am, not just at the mac, but 
in general with trouble shooting technology, I'm  going, well? sh**!  Um? 
Like, uh, hmm! what the! Heck?  So here I am, trying to figure out, what 
in the God blessid heck happened, as I swear! we didn't do anything! out 
of the ordinary from anyone else.  So, I had him shut down, and simply 
restart by holding his power button down.  I know, bad? move, but what 
else were we gonna do!?  He was hung!  We kind a had no other choice of 
the matter.  It was either do that, or sit here and watch the perty apple 
whilst singing:  I haven't gotta clue, I don't know what to say, what the 
bird is wrong with it, all the do dah day.  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!  So, it 
reboots, we hear the chime, and again, we wait for all eternity.  Nothing 
happens.  Just that stupid little apple on the grey background that shows 
it's loading.  You know, kind a the Darwin boot loader, I guess you'd 
call it, ish.  No error messages that I know a, just the blasted thing 
not booting.  It's totally weird, as it said! it installed correctly.


So, the next thing I had 'em do, was to go into the hidden recovery 
partition by hitting command+R once he heard the startup chime.  That 
worked absolutely flawlessly.  He did hit the ML, not the Lion, Recovery 
Partition with no issue at all.  So I'm going:  Sh'sh'shew!  At 
least? that worked!  So, only cause I didn't feel like having him fetch 
an ethernet cord from the back of his desktop windows machine out in the 
living room, which would a waken his folks up, plus is way back in a 
cavinet which, yeah, good luck trying to get that tower pulled out to get 
back there with all the cords in the way...  LOL!  So, at my disgression, 
I had him go up to the airport icon in the menu bar instead, and connect 
to his wifi network.  That worked again, perfectly.  Once connected, I 
had him try to reinstall from the recovery partition.  That worked again 
perfectly.  Then the system restarted, but here's the weird thing.  Then, 
it went again through this stupid progression thing again.  It's almost 
like it repeated the installation.  it didn't sho anything different it 
was doing.  The extra components it had to download did go through 
successfully, so it's not like it got hung there.  Trust me.  We both 
watched the screen with Voiceover very closely.


Once this all was done, the system restarted a second time.  just as we 
thought he would be good to go, we hear the chime, lots of hard disk 
activity for abo

ML Mail

[Chris Moore]

Hi all,

I have a mailbox folder within my iCloud account called "Stuff" (yeah I know, 
very imaginative).  After installing ML I noticed that my stuff mailbox was no 
longer visible.  I use mail in classic view as I prefer to be able to interact 
with the message table so I can just see the subjects when skimming mailing 
lists.  I interacted with the mailbox list and scrolled down and expanded 
mailboxes where I saw on my mac etc and moved to iCloud and tried to expand it 
to reveal my stuff folder with no success.

Anyone know how I can expand iCloud and also my gmail mailbox too so I can get 
to my mailbox folders?

Another thing I have noticed is when moving VO over Inbox, Sent, Trash and 
Junk, VO announces these as edit text.  I never noticed this in Lion.
 
Kind regards 

Chris 

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Re: ML Mail

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Chris,

I would try expanding the mailboxes as you have been doing.  I had trouble 
finding my folders as well, and this was the only way I could eventually drill 
down to find them.  The good news is once you have your folders visible, they 
will remain that way.

Les
On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:35 AM, Chris Moore  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I have a mailbox folder within my iCloud account called "Stuff" (yeah I know, 
> very imaginative).  After installing ML I noticed that my stuff mailbox was 
> no longer visible.  I use mail in classic view as I prefer to be able to 
> interact with the message table so I can just see the subjects when skimming 
> mailing lists.  I interacted with the mailbox list and scrolled down and 
> expanded mailboxes where I saw on my mac etc and moved to iCloud and tried to 
> expand it to reveal my stuff folder with no success.
> 
> Anyone know how I can expand iCloud and also my gmail mailbox too so I can 
> get to my mailbox folders?
> 
> Another thing I have noticed is when moving VO over Inbox, Sent, Trash and 
> Junk, VO announces these as edit text.  I never noticed this in Lion.
> 
> Kind regards 
> 
> Chris 
> 
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Need Help with Recovering Contents of a Folder

[Les Kriegler]

Okay, I had a brain cramp yesterday and caused a problem for myself. I 
inadvertently deleted the contents of my draft mailbox. Of course, I also 
deleted it from the trash. Now I realize it's gone on my Mac. However, I do 
have a MacBook Pro. Is there anyway I can go on to that machine and recover my 
drafts folder contents? Thanks.

Less

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Can any Macbook User Confirm this?

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Hey guys. Can anyone that has a Macbook confirm this? I was using it on battery 
power and I was doing something and the Macbook shut down due to low battery. 
The thing that I want confirmation is the fact that I no longer get the "You 
are now running on reserved battery power" dialog in Mountain Lion. Now it just 
shuts off if the battery is low. Has anyone else experienced this? Also, it 
should be noted that when I ran Chrome on Lion and I was doing something in it, 
I never got the reserved battery power dialog either. Thanks.

Shawn
Sent from my white Mac Book

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RE: Mountain Lion repeating information in finder

[Missy Hoppe]

Thanks! I actually did some playing around and found that last night. I should 
have written in to say it was fixed. It
doesn't seem to have fixed it globally, but now I know how to fix it if I need 
to. I also unchecked date added, and that made
it behave almost exactly the way it used to.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Shen
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 1:59 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Mountain Lion repeating information in finder

Hi,
I had to try it myself to see what you were talking about.
Here is how to get rid of it. Open any folder where this is happening, my guess 
is the home folder.
Open view preferences by pressing Command-J. Uncheck the check box for "Kind".
It's interesting that if you are looking at a folder, VoiceOver will say 
"folder". But if "kind" is checked, it will show you
visually that it is a folder, which VoiceOver will then say "folder" a second 
time.
Probably not a bug, but does seem a little odd.
On Jul 26, 2012, at 9:13 AM, Missy Hoppe  wrote:

> Hi, all. I couldn't think of a more concise way to sum up the problem
> for the subject of this message. Actually, this isn't a problem as
> much as an annoyance. If I'm in a finder window, it seems to be
> telling me information twice. For example, if I'm scrolling down, it
> might say something like "documents folder" followed by the date and whatever 
> else, and then it says folder again. Same for
actual files. It says the file name, then what type of document it is, then the 
date info, and then what type of file it is
again. I've looked through verbosity settings, and can't seem to find anything 
to fix this problem.
> It could be that my short term memory is even more pitiful than usual,
> and this is the way it's always read, but I don't think so. I thought
> the file type info was only read after the date and stuff. For
> example: "documents July 26 12:10 PM folder" I don't know if I'm explaining 
> this right, but the bottom line is that file
type information is being read twice, and I'd really appreciate it if someone 
had an idea how that could be fixed. Over all,
I'm still loving mountain lion, though.
> The new features and improved start-up definitely cancel out any minor quirks 
> I've encountered.
> Missy
>
>
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Re: Can any Macbook User Confirm this?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

What type macbook are you using, a Pro, and standard White macbook, etc.

Can you be a bit more specific?

Chris.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Shawn Krasniuk 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 5:46 AM
  Subject: Can any Macbook User Confirm this?


  Hey guys. Can anyone that has a Macbook confirm this? I was using it on 
battery power and I was doing something and the Macbook shut down due to low 
battery. The thing that I want confirmation is the fact that I no longer get 
the "You are now running on reserved battery power" dialog in Mountain Lion. 
Now it just shuts off if the battery is low. Has anyone else experienced this? 
Also, it should be noted that when I ran Chrome on Lion and I was doing 
something in it, I never got the reserved battery power dialog either. Thanks.


  Shawn
  Sent from my white Mac Book



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Re: Bug when expanding mail messages

[Garth Humphreys]

This is how I have always expended messages even under Lion. I had no idea what 
people were talking about when mentioning VO \ to expend. Just use the right 
and left arrow keys. Actually, what I usually do is  to press Control+Tab while 
on a thread of messages. This will take you to the oldest unread message in the 
thread and you can arrow through them, having the text read out with a minimum 
of additional VO verbiage. 


Garth 

www.iblindtech.com/
Search for iBlindTech in iTunes or your favourite pod catcher to subscribe to 
the iBlindTech Democast.

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Send email to iblindt...@gmail.com


On 26/07/2012, at 2:36 PM, Harry Hogue  wrote:

> I just noticed that when expanding mail messages with VO-space bar, sometimes 
> the focus is in the wrong place, apparently, and it opens up the "sort by 
> menu" where you are able to sort by attachments, date, from, etc.  So far, my 
> only complaint is that they took the expand mail messages keystroke away for 
> VoiceOver; I find this new one to be a bit awkward.
> 
> Other than that, it's really pretty nice.
> 
> Harry
> 
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Re: ML Mail

[Chris Moore]

Les,

I am trying to expand them, but nothing seems to be happening.

How are you expanding yours? (no pun intended)

Chris 
On 27 Jul 2012, at 10:40, Les Kriegler  wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> 
> I would try expanding the mailboxes as you have been doing.  I had trouble 
> finding my folders as well, and this was the only way I could eventually 
> drill down to find them.  The good news is once you have your folders 
> visible, they will remain that way.
> 
> Les
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:35 AM, Chris Moore  wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I have a mailbox folder within my iCloud account called "Stuff" (yeah I 
>> know, very imaginative).  After installing ML I noticed that my stuff 
>> mailbox was no longer visible.  I use mail in classic view as I prefer to be 
>> able to interact with the message table so I can just see the subjects when 
>> skimming mailing lists.  I interacted with the mailbox list and scrolled 
>> down and expanded mailboxes where I saw on my mac etc and moved to iCloud 
>> and tried to expand it to reveal my stuff folder with no success.
>> 
>> Anyone know how I can expand iCloud and also my gmail mailbox too so I can 
>> get to my mailbox folders?
>> 
>> Another thing I have noticed is when moving VO over Inbox, Sent, Trash and 
>> Junk, VO announces these as edit text.  I never noticed this in Lion.
>> 
>> Kind regards 
>> 
>> Chris 
>> 
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Re: ML Mail

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Chris,

I used VO Backslash on any folder that looked like it could be the one I 
wished, trial and error.  I have a G Mail account, I cannot remember if I had 
to go under My Mac and then G Mail to do it but I know the right arrow key 
press didn't expand anything.

Les
On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Chris Moore  wrote:

> Les,
> 
> I am trying to expand them, but nothing seems to be happening.
> 
> How are you expanding yours? (no pun intended)
> 
> Chris 
> On 27 Jul 2012, at 10:40, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>> I would try expanding the mailboxes as you have been doing.  I had trouble 
>> finding my folders as well, and this was the only way I could eventually 
>> drill down to find them.  The good news is once you have your folders 
>> visible, they will remain that way.
>> 
>> Les
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:35 AM, Chris Moore  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I have a mailbox folder within my iCloud account called "Stuff" (yeah I 
>>> know, very imaginative).  After installing ML I noticed that my stuff 
>>> mailbox was no longer visible.  I use mail in classic view as I prefer to 
>>> be able to interact with the message table so I can just see the subjects 
>>> when skimming mailing lists.  I interacted with the mailbox list and 
>>> scrolled down and expanded mailboxes where I saw on my mac etc and moved to 
>>> iCloud and tried to expand it to reveal my stuff folder with no success.
>>> 
>>> Anyone know how I can expand iCloud and also my gmail mailbox too so I can 
>>> get to my mailbox folders?
>>> 
>>> Another thing I have noticed is when moving VO over Inbox, Sent, Trash and 
>>> Junk, VO announces these as edit text.  I never noticed this in Lion.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards 
>>> 
>>> Chris 
>>> 
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Re: Braille Support Broken in Mountain Lion!

[Alex Hall]

You could make it that way with an 8gb USB stick and some time. I'm
assuming the process is accessible.

On 7/27/12, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> Hi All.
>
> I've decided to bite the bullet and upgrade to Mountain Lion this weekend
> and am going to see what happens when I connect my Euro Braille via blue
> Tooth. If it is broken, I'll let you all know.
>
> I wish Mountain Lion was available on a memory stick as I bought Lion on a
> stick from the Apple Store. Alas!
>
> Kawal.
>
> On 26 Jul 2012, at 02:01 PM, Steve Holmes  wrote:
>
>> OK, I just hooked up my Refreshabraille via the USB cable and that seems
>> to be working.  So I have issues pairing the bluetooth side of things with
>> this braille display.  Makes me wonder if other bluetooth displays are
>> experiencing any similar problems.
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Steve Holmes 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'll get out my USB cable for the Refreshabraille to see if that makes
>>> any difference.  I just know the bluetooth seems broken here.  I also
>>> plan to call Apple today on it to see if any issue can be raised or if
>>> the pairing procedure might have changed some how.  It just disturbed me
>>> greatly when I heard stuff about being unable to load or find a driver
>>> for the device.
>>>
>>> On Jul 25, 2012, at 11:34 PM, Johanna Herranen
>>>  wrote:
>>>
 Hi folks,
 I'm successfully using Baum VarioConnect 32 here with Mountain Lion.
 It's connected via USB, but I could try Bluetooth too - out of
 curiosity. Speaking of Braille suppor though, I wish one day they would
 fix all the issues with International braille tables.

 On Jul 26, 2012, at 7:16 AM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland"
  wrote:

> OK, but wait a minute.
>
> Can we be absolutely sure it's indeed braille display support in a
> whole that is messed up?  Sounds like you're using a bluetooth display.
>  Could it be that the issue only lies with BT displays, and not with
> regular connected u s b's?
>
> I'll have my best friend tonight, if I get ahold of him try it with his
> PM 40 display.  It's not from the Omni, mind you, it's just the
> original display, but I know for a definite it worked in Lion, as he
> just left here from out of town about two days ago, and had the thing
> with him down here, and it was working great on LIon at that time, so
> who knows about M L though.  I hope it works, as if not, that'll be a
> deal breaker for him, seeing that he's an interpretor/translator.
>
> Chris.
>
> - Original Message - From: "Steve Holmes"
> 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:06 AM
> Subject: Braille Support Broken in Mountain Lion!
>
>
> I just tried to use my RefreshaBraille 18 display this evening and it
> doesn't work here anymore.  First off, I had previously defined it
> under Lion and successfully used it several times.  Tonight after the
> ML install, it would never connect.  So then I removed the device from
> the bluetooth list in the Braille device section of VO.  Then when I
> tried to pair it back up, I kept getting an error that VO couldn't load
> a device driver for this device.  Has anyone else had success getting
> any braille displays to work under Mountain Lion?
>
> I will probably give Apple a call about this.  I sure hope they didn't
> break support like they did with the Hims devices on IOS.  BTW, I never
> got prompted to enter any pairing codes and I usually do when hooking
> up the Refreshabraille display.
>
> Any ideas here?
>
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More on ML Mail for Chris

[Les Kriegler]

Chris, I just looked at my folder structure.  The mail boxes I expanded were 
under the folder called Recovered Messages, g Mail.  Under that, there is 
another entry called g Mail and that was reported now as Expanded and my 
mailboxes were under that g Mail folder.

Les

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Re: ML Mail

[Chris Moore]

Hi Les,

Thanks, that works.  Wouldn't you think VO + right arrow would expand a folder? 
 Not exactly intuitive.

Cheers 

Chris 
On 27 Jul 2012, at 11:19, Les Kriegler  wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> 
> I used VO Backslash on any folder that looked like it could be the one I 
> wished, trial and error.  I have a G Mail account, I cannot remember if I had 
> to go under My Mac and then G Mail to do it but I know the right arrow key 
> press didn't expand anything.
> 
> Les
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Chris Moore  wrote:
> 
>> Les,
>> 
>> I am trying to expand them, but nothing seems to be happening.
>> 
>> How are you expanding yours? (no pun intended)
>> 
>> Chris 
>> On 27 Jul 2012, at 10:40, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> 
>>> I would try expanding the mailboxes as you have been doing.  I had trouble 
>>> finding my folders as well, and this was the only way I could eventually 
>>> drill down to find them.  The good news is once you have your folders 
>>> visible, they will remain that way.
>>> 
>>> Les
>>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:35 AM, Chris Moore  wrote:
>>> 
 Hi all,
 
 I have a mailbox folder within my iCloud account called "Stuff" (yeah I 
 know, very imaginative).  After installing ML I noticed that my stuff 
 mailbox was no longer visible.  I use mail in classic view as I prefer to 
 be able to interact with the message table so I can just see the subjects 
 when skimming mailing lists.  I interacted with the mailbox list and 
 scrolled down and expanded mailboxes where I saw on my mac etc and moved 
 to iCloud and tried to expand it to reveal my stuff folder with no success.
 
 Anyone know how I can expand iCloud and also my gmail mailbox too so I can 
 get to my mailbox folders?
 
 Another thing I have noticed is when moving VO over Inbox, Sent, Trash and 
 Junk, VO announces these as edit text.  I never noticed this in Lion.
 
 Kind regards 
 
 Chris 
 
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>>> 
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Re: interesting behavior with Mail

[Alex Hall]

That's awesome! You can now move either direction; if I trash a
message but want to keep the one above it in Lion,  I had to keep
arrowing down to get to the next one, since vo moved up and kept
reading the one I wanted to save. Now I can tell vo to just move down
instead of up!

On 7/27/12, Greg Aikens  wrote:
> I have also observed this.  It will take some getting used to.
>
> -Greg
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 1:50 AM, Shen  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I discovered something new with Mail in Mountain Lion. It's not a big
>> thing, but worth keeping in mind.
>> First, my Mail is in classic view. When going through a large amount of
>> emails, I usually stay on the subject column since the sender column
>> doesn't always tell me what the email is about.
>> My mail is sorted with the oldest at the top and newest on the bottom, but
>> this might not make a difference.
>> I start at the top of the table of messages. Typically, when I press
>> delete, the email gets moved away and the next email takes it's place,
>> this is the email below the first email if you press the down arrow key.
>> OK, so far, this has been the case with all previous versions of Mail.
>> The new twist is that when you press the delete button, the next message
>> that comes under focus depends on which arrow key you last pressed.
>> So if the last arrow key you pressed was down, the focus will move down
>> when you press the delete key. However, if your last arrow key was up
>> arrow, be careful, when you press delete, VoiceOver focus moves up and not
>> down.
>> Not sure what kind of benefit this provides, but there it is.
>>
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Re: in Pages

[Alex Hall]

Harry, I don't know how, I just know it can. I haven't tried it yet,
only read about it online.

On 7/27/12, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> Hello Harry,
>
> To edit header and footer areas in Pages, you need to interact with the area
> then bring the mouse and do a simulated mouse click (VO-Shift-Space bar) to
> move the focus to that area. We teach all this in our Pages course.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Anne
>
>
> On 27 Jul 2012, at 03:37, Harry Hogue wrote:
>
>> Do you happen to have any suggestions for using headers and footers in
>> Pages with regards to Quick Nav?  As I play with business letter
>> templates, I am noticin you have to select each word/phrase to of the
>> placeholder text you want replaced and write in your repalcement, which
>> works fine.  The issue comes when trying to move to the header and footers
>> to enter information.  You seem to need quick nav for this, but then I am
>> unable to edit anything in the header or footer areas.  I just wondered if
>> you had any thoughts?  I have gotten used to Quick nav, but I may turn it
>> of and go about without using it, since it is really less useful than I
>> always thought it was.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Harry
>
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Re: Can any Macbook User Confirm this?

[Ricardo Walker]

Nope.

I get a warning.  When I get this warning, I usually have a minute or 2 to plug 
it in

Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info

On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:46 AM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:

> Hey guys. Can anyone that has a Macbook confirm this? I was using it on 
> battery power and I was doing something and the Macbook shut down due to low 
> battery. The thing that I want confirmation is the fact that I no longer get 
> the "You are now running on reserved battery power" dialog in Mountain Lion. 
> Now it just shuts off if the battery is low. Has anyone else experienced 
> this? Also, it should be noted that when I ran Chrome on Lion and I was doing 
> something in it, I never got the reserved battery power dialog either. Thanks.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent from my white Mac Book
> 
> 
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Re: ML Mail

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi,

not really.  If VO right arrow expanded, how would it then know when you just 
want to move the VO cursor right?

Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info

On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:29 AM, Chris Moore  wrote:

> Hi Les,
> 
> Thanks, that works.  Wouldn't you think VO + right arrow would expand a 
> folder?  Not exactly intuitive.
> 
> Cheers 
> 
> Chris 
> On 27 Jul 2012, at 11:19, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>> I used VO Backslash on any folder that looked like it could be the one I 
>> wished, trial and error.  I have a G Mail account, I cannot remember if I 
>> had to go under My Mac and then G Mail to do it but I know the right arrow 
>> key press didn't expand anything.
>> 
>> Les
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Chris Moore  wrote:
>> 
>>> Les,
>>> 
>>> I am trying to expand them, but nothing seems to be happening.
>>> 
>>> How are you expanding yours? (no pun intended)
>>> 
>>> Chris 
>>> On 27 Jul 2012, at 10:40, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Chris,
 
 I would try expanding the mailboxes as you have been doing.  I had trouble 
 finding my folders as well, and this was the only way I could eventually 
 drill down to find them.  The good news is once you have your folders 
 visible, they will remain that way.
 
 Les
 On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:35 AM, Chris Moore  
 wrote:
 
> Hi all,
> 
> I have a mailbox folder within my iCloud account called "Stuff" (yeah I 
> know, very imaginative).  After installing ML I noticed that my stuff 
> mailbox was no longer visible.  I use mail in classic view as I prefer to 
> be able to interact with the message table so I can just see the subjects 
> when skimming mailing lists.  I interacted with the mailbox list and 
> scrolled down and expanded mailboxes where I saw on my mac etc and moved 
> to iCloud and tried to expand it to reveal my stuff folder with no 
> success.
> 
> Anyone know how I can expand iCloud and also my gmail mailbox too so I 
> can get to my mailbox folders?
> 
> Another thing I have noticed is when moving VO over Inbox, Sent, Trash 
> and Junk, VO announces these as edit text.  I never noticed this in Lion.
> 
> Kind regards 
> 
> Chris 
> 
> -- 
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>>> 
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Re: ML Mail

[Alex Hall]

With quicknav off, does right arrow not expand conversations anymore?
I love that command...

On 7/27/12, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> not really.  If VO right arrow expanded, how would it then know when you
> just want to move the VO cursor right?
>
> Ricardo Walker
> rica...@appletothecore.info
> Twitter:@apple2thecore
> www.appletothecore.info
>
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:29 AM, Chris Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Les,
>>
>> Thanks, that works.  Wouldn't you think VO + right arrow would expand a
>> folder?  Not exactly intuitive.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Chris
>> On 27 Jul 2012, at 11:19, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Chris,
>>>
>>> I used VO Backslash on any folder that looked like it could be the one I
>>> wished, trial and error.  I have a G Mail account, I cannot remember if I
>>> had to go under My Mac and then G Mail to do it but I know the right
>>> arrow key press didn't expand anything.
>>>
>>> Les
>>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Chris Moore 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Les,

 I am trying to expand them, but nothing seems to be happening.

 How are you expanding yours? (no pun intended)

 Chris
 On 27 Jul 2012, at 10:40, Les Kriegler  wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> I would try expanding the mailboxes as you have been doing.  I had
> trouble finding my folders as well, and this was the only way I could
> eventually drill down to find them.  The good news is once you have
> your folders visible, they will remain that way.
>
> Les
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:35 AM, Chris Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have a mailbox folder within my iCloud account called "Stuff" (yeah
>> I know, very imaginative).  After installing ML I noticed that my
>> stuff mailbox was no longer visible.  I use mail in classic view as I
>> prefer to be able to interact with the message table so I can just see
>> the subjects when skimming mailing lists.  I interacted with the
>> mailbox list and scrolled down and expanded mailboxes where I saw on
>> my mac etc and moved to iCloud and tried to expand it to reveal my
>> stuff folder with no success.
>>
>> Anyone know how I can expand iCloud and also my gmail mailbox too so I
>> can get to my mailbox folders?
>>
>> Another thing I have noticed is when moving VO over Inbox, Sent, Trash
>> and Junk, VO announces these as edit text.  I never noticed this in
>> Lion.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> --
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>
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Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
mehg...@gmail.com

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Re: ML Mail

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi,

yes.  It does.

Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info

On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:48 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:

> With quicknav off, does right arrow not expand conversations anymore?
> I love that command...
> 
> On 7/27/12, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> not really.  If VO right arrow expanded, how would it then know when you
>> just want to move the VO cursor right?
>> 
>> Ricardo Walker
>> rica...@appletothecore.info
>> Twitter:@apple2thecore
>> www.appletothecore.info
>> 
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:29 AM, Chris Moore 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Les,
>>> 
>>> Thanks, that works.  Wouldn't you think VO + right arrow would expand a
>>> folder?  Not exactly intuitive.
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> On 27 Jul 2012, at 11:19, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Chris,
 
 I used VO Backslash on any folder that looked like it could be the one I
 wished, trial and error.  I have a G Mail account, I cannot remember if I
 had to go under My Mac and then G Mail to do it but I know the right
 arrow key press didn't expand anything.
 
 Les
 On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Chris Moore 
 wrote:
 
> Les,
> 
> I am trying to expand them, but nothing seems to be happening.
> 
> How are you expanding yours? (no pun intended)
> 
> Chris
> On 27 Jul 2012, at 10:40, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>> I would try expanding the mailboxes as you have been doing.  I had
>> trouble finding my folders as well, and this was the only way I could
>> eventually drill down to find them.  The good news is once you have
>> your folders visible, they will remain that way.
>> 
>> Les
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:35 AM, Chris Moore 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I have a mailbox folder within my iCloud account called "Stuff" (yeah
>>> I know, very imaginative).  After installing ML I noticed that my
>>> stuff mailbox was no longer visible.  I use mail in classic view as I
>>> prefer to be able to interact with the message table so I can just see
>>> the subjects when skimming mailing lists.  I interacted with the
>>> mailbox list and scrolled down and expanded mailboxes where I saw on
>>> my mac etc and moved to iCloud and tried to expand it to reveal my
>>> stuff folder with no success.
>>> 
>>> Anyone know how I can expand iCloud and also my gmail mailbox too so I
>>> can get to my mailbox folders?
>>> 
>>> Another thing I have noticed is when moving VO over Inbox, Sent, Trash
>>> and Junk, VO announces these as edit text.  I never noticed this in
>>> Lion.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> --
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>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>> For more options, visit this group at
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>>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
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>>> 
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Re: Need Help with Recovering Contents of a Folder

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi,

I don't see how you can recover them since you erased them regardless of the 
type of Mac you own.

Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info

On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:45 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:

> Okay, I had a brain cramp yesterday and caused a problem for myself. I 
> inadvertently deleted the contents of my draft mailbox. Of course, I also 
> deleted it from the trash. Now I realize it's gone on my Mac. However, I do 
> have a MacBook Pro. Is there anyway I can go on to that machine and recover 
> my drafts folder contents? Thanks.
> 
> Less
> 
> -- 
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Re: ML Mail

[Alex Hall]

Good, thanks! I'm hoping to have a Mountain Lion in my house less than
12 hours from now...

On 7/27/12, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> yes.  It does.
>
> Ricardo Walker
> rica...@appletothecore.info
> Twitter:@apple2thecore
> www.appletothecore.info
>
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:48 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>
>> With quicknav off, does right arrow not expand conversations anymore?
>> I love that command...
>>
>> On 7/27/12, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> not really.  If VO right arrow expanded, how would it then know when you
>>> just want to move the VO cursor right?
>>>
>>> Ricardo Walker
>>> rica...@appletothecore.info
>>> Twitter:@apple2thecore
>>> www.appletothecore.info
>>>
>>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:29 AM, Chris Moore 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi Les,

 Thanks, that works.  Wouldn't you think VO + right arrow would expand a
 folder?  Not exactly intuitive.

 Cheers

 Chris
 On 27 Jul 2012, at 11:19, Les Kriegler  wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> I used VO Backslash on any folder that looked like it could be the one
> I
> wished, trial and error.  I have a G Mail account, I cannot remember if
> I
> had to go under My Mac and then G Mail to do it but I know the right
> arrow key press didn't expand anything.
>
> Les
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Chris Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> Les,
>>
>> I am trying to expand them, but nothing seems to be happening.
>>
>> How are you expanding yours? (no pun intended)
>>
>> Chris
>> On 27 Jul 2012, at 10:40, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Chris,
>>>
>>> I would try expanding the mailboxes as you have been doing.  I had
>>> trouble finding my folders as well, and this was the only way I
>>> could
>>> eventually drill down to find them.  The good news is once you have
>>> your folders visible, they will remain that way.
>>>
>>> Les
>>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:35 AM, Chris Moore
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi all,

 I have a mailbox folder within my iCloud account called "Stuff"
 (yeah
 I know, very imaginative).  After installing ML I noticed that my
 stuff mailbox was no longer visible.  I use mail in classic view as
 I
 prefer to be able to interact with the message table so I can just
 see
 the subjects when skimming mailing lists.  I interacted with the
 mailbox list and scrolled down and expanded mailboxes where I saw
 on
 my mac etc and moved to iCloud and tried to expand it to reveal my
 stuff folder with no success.

 Anyone know how I can expand iCloud and also my gmail mailbox too so
 I
 can get to my mailbox folders?

 Another thing I have noticed is when moving VO over Inbox, Sent,
 Trash
 and Junk, VO announces these as edit text.  I never noticed this in
 Lion.

 Kind regards

 Chris

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>>>
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>>
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 To unsubs

keyboard shortcuts

[Stacey Robinson]

Hi,
What is the address for keyboard shortcuts for the mac?
(VoiceOver and Otherwise)
Stacey and Chesley

On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:20 AM, Shen wrote:

> How interesting. VO-Backslash is still working for me just fine. Otherwise, I 
> wouldn't be able to read any of my emails since they are all grouped by 
> conversations.
> FYI, the Apple accessibility webpage does have a Getting Started guide which 
> has the entire summary of keyboard shortcuts in Appendix A.
> Sometimes, I'm impatient and don't want to read lengthy explanations. 
> Instead, I just get to know all the keyboard shortcuts.
> 
> 
> On Jul 25, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Harry Hogue  wrote:
> 
>> Strange.  I often wonder how we're supposed to learn these things.  :)  
>> Thanks much.
>> 
>> Harry
>> 
>> On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:18 PM, Austin Seraphin  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> True. Vo-backslash doesn't work. Vo-space however does.
>>> 
>>> - Austin
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 25, 2012, at 7:20 PM, Harry Hogue  wrote:
>>> 
 Hi, guys,
 
 Not sure if others have experienced this, but in the Mail App, expanding 
 mail messages either with command right arrow or VO+backslash doesn't seem 
 to work.  I get a sound when I try to do it.
 I really like the status menus, though.
 
 Harry
 
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>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Need Help with Recovering Contents of a Folder

[Les Kriegler]

The reason I asked is because they were deleted on my iMac, and I have a second 
system, so I was hoping I could recover the Deleted Folder contents from there.

Les
On Jul 27, 2012, at 7:04 AM, Ricardo Walker  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I don't see how you can recover them since you erased them regardless of the 
> type of Mac you own.
> 
> Ricardo Walker
> rica...@appletothecore.info
> Twitter:@apple2thecore
> www.appletothecore.info
> 
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:45 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
>> Okay, I had a brain cramp yesterday and caused a problem for myself. I 
>> inadvertently deleted the contents of my draft mailbox. Of course, I also 
>> deleted it from the trash. Now I realize it's gone on my Mac. However, I do 
>> have a MacBook Pro. Is there anyway I can go on to that machine and recover 
>> my drafts folder contents? Thanks.
>> 
>> Less
>> 
>> -- 
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favorites bar in Mail?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

Just a curiosity.  I've had my mail in classic view, and may go back to that, 
but I decided I was curious about playing around with the newer view again.  I 
don't see the favorites bar, though.  How does one find it?
TIA,
Donna

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Re: Weird mail problem with Mountain Kitty

[Gigi]

Hi guys
Well, last night I had to call the 877 number to talk to them about this weird 
problem. It is being referred to the engineering people. Because, the screens 
of the siding people are just like ours but they can use, of course, there are 
Mousas to go over the thing to select it. I just got told last night there's no 
way to do it with voiceover. I am supposed to get a phone call about this 
later. He asked me if I wanted to get an email or phone call. 
For right now, I canceled all the rules I head. That way, at least I can get 
everything in my inbox. Of course, I can also get mail on my iPhone fortunately.
Regards
Gigi 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 26, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Greg Aikens  wrote:

> Hi,
> I am having the same problem.  My inbox is expanded so that I see the 
> separate inboxes for my separate accounts.  However, I can't see the list of 
> folders under each account.  These used to appear below my trash folder in 
> the list of mailboxes.  In Lion, I could hide these folders by clicking on a 
> disclosure triangle for each account.  Using VO+down arrow on the list of 
> mailboxes allows me to move past the trash folder to items with the names of 
> my email accounts and a disclosure triangle.  When I interact with these 
> items to try and press the triangle to expand the list, I can't.  VO+space, 
> pressing enter, left and right arrows won't do it.  
> 
> Any other suggestions?
> 
> -Greg
> 
> On Jul 26, 2012, at 12:26 PM, Matthew Campbell  
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi.
>> Is you're mailbox list expanded?
>> Go to you inbox which'll be at the top, and hit right arrow. THis'll expand 
>> the mailboxes for you.
>> HTH,
>> Matthew Campbell.
>> 
>> 
>> On 2012-07-26, at 1:09 PM, Eugenia Firth  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi guys. 
>>> I got Mountain Kitty installed just fine, even though it took forever. I'm 
>>> really pleased that I could do the installation process myself, but I'm 
>>> glad also that Les warned us about turning VoiceOver back on after a 
>>> minute. I almost had heart failure when I pressed command 5 and nothing 
>>> happened for a second or two. I did have to call that great 877 number last 
>>> night because a program I thought I had uninstalled insisted on raising up 
>>> its ugly head, even though I had—I thought—erased all of its files. That 
>>> took us a while, and the man was very nice and knowledgeable about things. 
>>> I discovered ast night that I had this weird mail problem, but we couldn't 
>>> get to that last night. 
>>> 
>>> I can't get to all my mailboxes. The one where I have messages sent for 
>>> this list is one of them. I will need to use iPhone to read anything from 
>>> this list right now. I can get to my inbox and some others like archives. 
>>> However, some of the ones I created I can't find. I don't think they're 
>>> gone—I onepe—because I keep hearing the messages coming in, but I can't 
>>> reach them unless they're in my inbox. Anybody got any ideas on this one? 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Eugenia Firth
>>> gigifi...@sbcglobal.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Weird mail problem with Mountain Kitty

[Kliphton]

The way I have always expanded folders in apple mail on the mack was vo 
backslash.  This expands and cllapses them.  HTH

K&S Vending
(TXT) 218-332-7542
(Fax( 218-451-9881
facebook.com/k.and.s.vending
Sent from Minister Miller's iPhone

On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:50 AM, Gigi  wrote:

Hi guys
Well, last night I had to call the 877 number to talk to them about this weird 
problem. It is being referred to the engineering people. Because, the screens 
of the siding people are just like ours but they can use, of course, there are 
Mousas to go over the thing to select it. I just got told last night there's no 
way to do it with voiceover. I am supposed to get a phone call about this 
later. He asked me if I wanted to get an email or phone call. 
For right now, I canceled all the rules I head. That way, at least I can get 
everything in my inbox. Of course, I can also get mail on my iPhone fortunately.
Regards
Gigi 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 26, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Greg Aikens  wrote:

> Hi,
> I am having the same problem.  My inbox is expanded so that I see the 
> separate inboxes for my separate accounts.  However, I can't see the list of 
> folders under each account.  These used to appear below my trash folder in 
> the list of mailboxes.  In Lion, I could hide these folders by clicking on a 
> disclosure triangle for each account.  Using VO+down arrow on the list of 
> mailboxes allows me to move past the trash folder to items with the names of 
> my email accounts and a disclosure triangle.  When I interact with these 
> items to try and press the triangle to expand the list, I can't.  VO+space, 
> pressing enter, left and right arrows won't do it.  
> 
> Any other suggestions?
> 
> -Greg
> 
> On Jul 26, 2012, at 12:26 PM, Matthew Campbell  
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi.
>> Is you're mailbox list expanded?
>> Go to you inbox which'll be at the top, and hit right arrow. THis'll expand 
>> the mailboxes for you.
>> HTH,
>> Matthew Campbell.
>> 
>> 
>> On 2012-07-26, at 1:09 PM, Eugenia Firth  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi guys. 
>>> I got Mountain Kitty installed just fine, even though it took forever. I'm 
>>> really pleased that I could do the installation process myself, but I'm 
>>> glad also that Les warned us about turning VoiceOver back on after a 
>>> minute. I almost had heart failure when I pressed command 5 and nothing 
>>> happened for a second or two. I did have to call that great 877 number last 
>>> night because a program I thought I had uninstalled insisted on raising up 
>>> its ugly head, even though I had—I thought—erased all of its files. That 
>>> took us a while, and the man was very nice and knowledgeable about things. 
>>> I discovered ast night that I had this weird mail problem, but we couldn't 
>>> get to that last night. 
>>> 
>>> I can't get to all my mailboxes. The one where I have messages sent for 
>>> this list is one of them. I will need to use iPhone to read anything from 
>>> this list right now. I can get to my inbox and some others like archives. 
>>> However, some of the ones I created I can't find. I don't think they're 
>>> gone—I onepe—because I keep hearing the messages coming in, but I can't 
>>> reach them unless they're in my inbox. Anybody got any ideas on this one? 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Eugenia Firth
>>> gigifi...@sbcglobal.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Busy, busy everywhere

[Christine Grassman]

Since installing ML, I am noticing a huge increase in "busy" messages in Mail, 
Safari, Finder -- everywhere. Exceedingly annoying. Sometimes, toggling VO off 
and on helps, but often not.
Also, I've noticed that whenever I have to use VO space for anything, it almost 
always requires a second or third press. Thoughts? Experiences? Work-arounds? 
TIA.
Christine

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Re: favorites bar in Mail?

[Garth Humphreys]

Hi Donna 
Command Option Shift+H will toggle the favorites bar. When shown, it is the 
next element past the tool bar. You cna of cours just jump up to your view menu 
to show/hide the favourites bar as well.


Garth 

www.iblindtech.com/
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On 27/07/2012, at 9:33 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Just a curiosity.  I've had my mail in classic view, and may go back to that, 
> but I decided I was curious about playing around with the newer view again.  
> I don't see the favorites bar, though.  How does one find it?
> TIA,
> Donna
> 
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Re: ML Mail

[Chris Moore]

Sorry my brain was not plugged in there, I meant to say by just pressing the 
arrow right, in the same way I would expand or collapse a conversation or 
podcast list in iTunes for example.
On 27 Jul 2012, at 11:43, Ricardo Walker  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> not really.  If VO right arrow expanded, how would it then know when you just 
> want to move the VO cursor right?
> 
> Ricardo Walker
> rica...@appletothecore.info
> Twitter:@apple2thecore
> www.appletothecore.info
> 
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:29 AM, Chris Moore  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Les,
>> 
>> Thanks, that works.  Wouldn't you think VO + right arrow would expand a 
>> folder?  Not exactly intuitive.
>> 
>> Cheers 
>> 
>> Chris 
>> On 27 Jul 2012, at 11:19, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> 
>>> I used VO Backslash on any folder that looked like it could be the one I 
>>> wished, trial and error.  I have a G Mail account, I cannot remember if I 
>>> had to go under My Mac and then G Mail to do it but I know the right arrow 
>>> key press didn't expand anything.
>>> 
>>> Les
>>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:07 AM, Chris Moore  wrote:
>>> 
 Les,
 
 I am trying to expand them, but nothing seems to be happening.
 
 How are you expanding yours? (no pun intended)
 
 Chris 
 On 27 Jul 2012, at 10:40, Les Kriegler  wrote:
 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> I would try expanding the mailboxes as you have been doing.  I had 
> trouble finding my folders as well, and this was the only way I could 
> eventually drill down to find them.  The good news is once you have your 
> folders visible, they will remain that way.
> 
> Les
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:35 AM, Chris Moore  
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I have a mailbox folder within my iCloud account called "Stuff" (yeah I 
>> know, very imaginative).  After installing ML I noticed that my stuff 
>> mailbox was no longer visible.  I use mail in classic view as I prefer 
>> to be able to interact with the message table so I can just see the 
>> subjects when skimming mailing lists.  I interacted with the mailbox 
>> list and scrolled down and expanded mailboxes where I saw on my mac etc 
>> and moved to iCloud and tried to expand it to reveal my stuff folder 
>> with no success.
>> 
>> Anyone know how I can expand iCloud and also my gmail mailbox too so I 
>> can get to my mailbox folders?
>> 
>> Another thing I have noticed is when moving VO over Inbox, Sent, Trash 
>> and Junk, VO announces these as edit text.  I never noticed this in Lion.
>> 
>> Kind regards 
>> 
>> Chris 
>> 
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>>> 
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Re: Braille Support Broken in Mountain Lion!

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I'm doing a clean install  am getting Mountain Lion free of charge. Just can't 
wait to get home to start the process as I'm sitting here at work how 
frustrating!

On 27 Jul 2012, at 11:25 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:

> You could make it that way with an 8gb USB stick and some time. I'm
> assuming the process is accessible.
> 
> On 7/27/12, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> Hi All.
>> 
>> I've decided to bite the bullet and upgrade to Mountain Lion this weekend
>> and am going to see what happens when I connect my Euro Braille via blue
>> Tooth. If it is broken, I'll let you all know.
>> 
>> I wish Mountain Lion was available on a memory stick as I bought Lion on a
>> stick from the Apple Store. Alas!
>> 
>> Kawal.
>> 
>> On 26 Jul 2012, at 02:01 PM, Steve Holmes  wrote:
>> 
>>> OK, I just hooked up my Refreshabraille via the USB cable and that seems
>>> to be working.  So I have issues pairing the bluetooth side of things with
>>> this braille display.  Makes me wonder if other bluetooth displays are
>>> experiencing any similar problems.
>>> 
>>> On Jul 26, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Steve Holmes 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 I'll get out my USB cable for the Refreshabraille to see if that makes
 any difference.  I just know the bluetooth seems broken here.  I also
 plan to call Apple today on it to see if any issue can be raised or if
 the pairing procedure might have changed some how.  It just disturbed me
 greatly when I heard stuff about being unable to load or find a driver
 for the device.
 
 On Jul 25, 2012, at 11:34 PM, Johanna Herranen
  wrote:
 
> Hi folks,
> I'm successfully using Baum VarioConnect 32 here with Mountain Lion.
> It's connected via USB, but I could try Bluetooth too - out of
> curiosity. Speaking of Braille suppor though, I wish one day they would
> fix all the issues with International braille tables.
> 
> On Jul 26, 2012, at 7:16 AM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland"
>  wrote:
> 
>> OK, but wait a minute.
>> 
>> Can we be absolutely sure it's indeed braille display support in a
>> whole that is messed up?  Sounds like you're using a bluetooth display.
>> Could it be that the issue only lies with BT displays, and not with
>> regular connected u s b's?
>> 
>> I'll have my best friend tonight, if I get ahold of him try it with his
>> PM 40 display.  It's not from the Omni, mind you, it's just the
>> original display, but I know for a definite it worked in Lion, as he
>> just left here from out of town about two days ago, and had the thing
>> with him down here, and it was working great on LIon at that time, so
>> who knows about M L though.  I hope it works, as if not, that'll be a
>> deal breaker for him, seeing that he's an interpretor/translator.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Steve Holmes"
>> 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:06 AM
>> Subject: Braille Support Broken in Mountain Lion!
>> 
>> 
>> I just tried to use my RefreshaBraille 18 display this evening and it
>> doesn't work here anymore.  First off, I had previously defined it
>> under Lion and successfully used it several times.  Tonight after the
>> ML install, it would never connect.  So then I removed the device from
>> the bluetooth list in the Braille device section of VO.  Then when I
>> tried to pair it back up, I kept getting an error that VO couldn't load
>> a device driver for this device.  Has anyone else had success getting
>> any braille displays to work under Mountain Lion?
>> 
>> I will probably give Apple a call about this.  I sure hope they didn't
>> break support like they did with the Hims devices on IOS.  BTW, I never
>> got prompted to enter any pairing codes and I usually do when hooking
>> up the Refreshabraille display.
>> 
>> Any ideas here?
>> 
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Re: favorites bar in Mail?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Garth,

Thanks, got it.
Best,
Donna
On Jul 27, 2012, at 7:15 AM, Garth Humphreys  wrote:

> Hi Donna 
> Command Option Shift+H will toggle the favorites bar. When shown, it is the 
> next element past the tool bar. You cna of cours just jump up to your view 
> menu to show/hide the favourites bar as well.
> 
> 
> Garth 
> 
> www.iblindtech.com/
> Search for iBlindTech in iTunes or your favourite pod catcher to subscribe to 
> the iBlindTech Democast.
> 
> Follow me on twitter @BlindTechMusing or @iBlindTech for podcast info.
> 
> Send email to iblindt...@gmail.com
> 
> On 27/07/2012, at 9:33 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Just a curiosity.  I've had my mail in classic view, and may go back to 
>> that, but I decided I was curious about playing around with the newer view 
>> again.  I don't see the favorites bar, though.  How does one find it?
>> TIA,
>> Donna
>> 
>> -- 
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> 
> 
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Re: Busy, busy everywhere

[Eugenia Firth]

I am have the same problem with control option space. Here's what I did that 
helps some, especially when you need to do several of them at once. 

Lock your vo keys with control option semicolon. You won't want to do this if 
you have just one you want to do maybe, but it helps. You will need to unlock 
again with control option semicolon. 


Eugenia Firth
gigifi...@sbcglobal.net



On Jul 27, 2012, at 7:10 AM, Christine Grassman  wrote:

> Since installing ML, I am noticing a huge increase in "busy" messages in 
> Mail, Safari, Finder -- everywhere. Exceedingly annoying. Sometimes, toggling 
> VO off and on helps, but often not.
> Also, I've noticed that whenever I have to use VO space for anything, it 
> almost always requires a second or third press. Thoughts? Experiences? 
> Work-arounds? TIA.
> Christine
> 
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Re: Weird mail problem with Mountain Kitty

[Greg Aikens]

Gigi,
I was having this same problem.  NO matter how many people suggested that I use 
VO \, it just wouldn't open for me.  But, I did a couple of things and was able 
to fix my problem.  I'm not exactly sure which of these did it, so maybe you 
can try them all?

First, I switched to classic view.  I then went to my list of mailboxes and 
when I got to the collapsed account, I interacted with it and tried VO \ on it. 
 This worked to expand the collapsed folder structure.  I then went back to 
modern view and tried it a few times and it also worked to interact first and 
then try VO \.  Not sure why this worked, but it did.  

I would try interacting with the collapsed folder and then hitting VO \.  I 
don't really think switching to classic view did anything for me.  

I hope this works for you like it did for me.  I was very frustrated before 
this worked.

-Greg

On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:50 AM, Gigi  wrote:

> Hi guys
> Well, last night I had to call the 877 number to talk to them about this 
> weird problem. It is being referred to the engineering people. Because, the 
> screens of the siding people are just like ours but they can use, of course, 
> there are Mousas to go over the thing to select it. I just got told last 
> night there's no way to do it with voiceover. I am supposed to get a phone 
> call about this later. He asked me if I wanted to get an email or phone call. 
> For right now, I canceled all the rules I head. That way, at least I can get 
> everything in my inbox. Of course, I can also get mail on my iPhone 
> fortunately.
> Regards
> Gigi 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 26, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Greg Aikens  wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> I am having the same problem.  My inbox is expanded so that I see the 
>> separate inboxes for my separate accounts.  However, I can't see the list of 
>> folders under each account.  These used to appear below my trash folder in 
>> the list of mailboxes.  In Lion, I could hide these folders by clicking on a 
>> disclosure triangle for each account.  Using VO+down arrow on the list of 
>> mailboxes allows me to move past the trash folder to items with the names of 
>> my email accounts and a disclosure triangle.  When I interact with these 
>> items to try and press the triangle to expand the list, I can't.  VO+space, 
>> pressing enter, left and right arrows won't do it.  
>> 
>> Any other suggestions?
>> 
>> -Greg
>> 
>> On Jul 26, 2012, at 12:26 PM, Matthew Campbell  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi.
>>> Is you're mailbox list expanded?
>>> Go to you inbox which'll be at the top, and hit right arrow. THis'll expand 
>>> the mailboxes for you.
>>> HTH,
>>> Matthew Campbell.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2012-07-26, at 1:09 PM, Eugenia Firth  wrote:
>>> 
 Hi guys. 
 I got Mountain Kitty installed just fine, even though it took forever. I'm 
 really pleased that I could do the installation process myself, but I'm 
 glad also that Les warned us about turning VoiceOver back on after a 
 minute. I almost had heart failure when I pressed command 5 and nothing 
 happened for a second or two. I did have to call that great 877 number 
 last night because a program I thought I had uninstalled insisted on 
 raising up its ugly head, even though I had—I thought—erased all of its 
 files. That took us a while, and the man was very nice and knowledgeable 
 about things. I discovered ast night that I had this weird mail problem, 
 but we couldn't get to that last night. 
 
 I can't get to all my mailboxes. The one where I have messages sent for 
 this list is one of them. I will need to use iPhone to read anything from 
 this list right now. I can get to my inbox and some others like archives. 
 However, some of the ones I created I can't find. I don't think they're 
 gone—I onepe—because I keep hearing the messages coming in, but I can't 
 reach them unless they're in my inbox. Anybody got any ideas on this one? 
 
 
 Eugenia Firth
 gigifi...@sbcglobal.net
 
 
 
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>>> 
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Re: Weird mail problem with Mountain Kitty

[Eugenia Firth]

Thanks Greg. I did, thanks to Les, get the boxes uncollapsed. However, it's not 
as good and convenient that way it was before, so when I get a chance I will 
try what you did. I need to remember how to get into classic view. 


Eugenia Firth
gigifi...@sbcglobal.net



On Jul 27, 2012, at 7:57 AM, Greg Aikens  wrote:

> Gigi,
> I was having this same problem.  NO matter how many people suggested that I 
> use VO \, it just wouldn't open for me.  But, I did a couple of things and 
> was able to fix my problem.  I'm not exactly sure which of these did it, so 
> maybe you can try them all?
> 
> First, I switched to classic view.  I then went to my list of mailboxes and 
> when I got to the collapsed account, I interacted with it and tried VO \ on 
> it.  This worked to expand the collapsed folder structure.  I then went back 
> to modern view and tried it a few times and it also worked to interact first 
> and then try VO \.  Not sure why this worked, but it did.  
> 
> I would try interacting with the collapsed folder and then hitting VO \.  I 
> don't really think switching to classic view did anything for me.  
> 
> I hope this works for you like it did for me.  I was very frustrated before 
> this worked.
> 
> -Greg
> 
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:50 AM, Gigi  wrote:
> 
>> Hi guys
>> Well, last night I had to call the 877 number to talk to them about this 
>> weird problem. It is being referred to the engineering people. Because, the 
>> screens of the siding people are just like ours but they can use, of course, 
>> there are Mousas to go over the thing to select it. I just got told last 
>> night there's no way to do it with voiceover. I am supposed to get a phone 
>> call about this later. He asked me if I wanted to get an email or phone 
>> call. 
>> For right now, I canceled all the rules I head. That way, at least I can get 
>> everything in my inbox. Of course, I can also get mail on my iPhone 
>> fortunately.
>> Regards
>> Gigi 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jul 26, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Greg Aikens  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> I am having the same problem.  My inbox is expanded so that I see the 
>>> separate inboxes for my separate accounts.  However, I can't see the list 
>>> of folders under each account.  These used to appear below my trash folder 
>>> in the list of mailboxes.  In Lion, I could hide these folders by clicking 
>>> on a disclosure triangle for each account.  Using VO+down arrow on the list 
>>> of mailboxes allows me to move past the trash folder to items with the 
>>> names of my email accounts and a disclosure triangle.  When I interact with 
>>> these items to try and press the triangle to expand the list, I can't.  
>>> VO+space, pressing enter, left and right arrows won't do it.  
>>> 
>>> Any other suggestions?
>>> 
>>> -Greg
>>> 
>>> On Jul 26, 2012, at 12:26 PM, Matthew Campbell  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi.
 Is you're mailbox list expanded?
 Go to you inbox which'll be at the top, and hit right arrow. THis'll 
 expand the mailboxes for you.
 HTH,
 Matthew Campbell.
 
 
 On 2012-07-26, at 1:09 PM, Eugenia Firth  wrote:
 
> Hi guys. 
> I got Mountain Kitty installed just fine, even though it took forever. 
> I'm really pleased that I could do the installation process myself, but 
> I'm glad also that Les warned us about turning VoiceOver back on after a 
> minute. I almost had heart failure when I pressed command 5 and nothing 
> happened for a second or two. I did have to call that great 877 number 
> last night because a program I thought I had uninstalled insisted on 
> raising up its ugly head, even though I had—I thought—erased all of its 
> files. That took us a while, and the man was very nice and knowledgeable 
> about things. I discovered ast night that I had this weird mail problem, 
> but we couldn't get to that last night. 
> 
> I can't get to all my mailboxes. The one where I have messages sent for 
> this list is one of them. I will need to use iPhone to read anything from 
> this list right now. I can get to my inbox and some others like archives. 
> However, some of the ones I created I can't find. I don't think they're 
> gone—I onepe—because I keep hearing the messages coming in, but I can't 
> reach them unless they're in my inbox. Anybody got any ideas on this one? 
> 
> 
> Eugenia Firth
> gigifi...@sbcglobal.net
> 
> 
> 
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Re: first possible bug in ML

[Donna Goodin]

Hi,

I've waited a good couple of minutes.  Also, when I interact and enter my 
password, I am able to log in.  And I have done what you suggested.  Still not 
getting VO at login.
Thanks,
Donna
On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:24 AM, Shen  wrote:

> How long are you waiting before realizing VoiceOver is not coming on? Is it 
> possible the system is still booting up?
> Also, just for giggles, unchecked the checkbox for starting VoiceOver at the 
> login screen. Close the Preferences, open it again and check the box again.
> I would do a complete shut down, then startup.
> Hope that will help.
> 
> 
> On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:48 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
>> Yes it is checked.  I've now set my Mac to log in automatically, but I hope 
>> that isn't the only long-term solution.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:05 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> Are you sure that you have voiceover in your login items system prefs paine 
>>> under users set to read at the log on screen?  What if you hit command+F5 
>>> to turn it on manually?
>>> 
>>> If that doesn't work, try fn+Command+F5, provided you have an fn key.
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - From: "Donna Goodin" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 4:33 PM
>>> Subject: first possible bug in ML
>>> 
>>> 
 Hi all,
 
 Well, I think I've found my first bug with ML.  I no longer have speech 
 during the log-in process.  To test this, shut down your Mac and reboot. 
 You can still log in, but you will have no speech while you are doing it. 
 Can anyone confirm?
 Thanks,
 Donna
 
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Re: Numbers

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Harry,

To edit the contents of a cell, press the space bar. In the case of menus, this 
will bring up the menu.

To rename the table, go to the Sheets table, interact with it and navigate to 
the one you want to rename. Bring the mouse and double click using the 
trackpad, then type the new name and press Return.

Cheers,

Anne


On 27 Jul 2012, at 03:06, Harry Hogue wrote:
> 
> Is anyone familiar with Numbers and using the menus, checkboxes, etc. 
> features?  I would like to create an attendance tracker to practice skills in 
> Numbers, but I just now looked at the template for an employee schedule, and 
> the menu options that are placed into the cells are all dimmed, and although 
> it gives times inside of those menus (times the employee signed in/out, for 
> example), VoiceOver does not read this information.  Should I be going about 
> this type of thing another way?  I want to be able to create professional 
> presentations using Numbers that will give me the information I need about my 
> budget, or my upcoming internship schedule, and that kind of thing, but I 
> want to have it be in a way that is accessible when using VoiceOver, 
> obviously.  Right now I'm trying to create the attendance tracker with 
> information modeled off the office.com website using Excel 2003.  I want to 
> learn how to do these various things because Numbers/Excel has always been a 
> weak area of mine.  How, for example, do you rename a table?
> 
> I would appreciate any thoughts from a confident Numbers user.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Harry
> 
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Re: first possible bug in ML

[Matthew Campbell]

Hi Donna.
I to am seeing this. In my case, it seems to work every so often. I guess it 
needs to be in the right mood to work properly. *Smile*.
I'm going to send a message to apple accessibility about this one and I'll 
report back on any feedback I get.

On 2012-07-27, at 9:28 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I've waited a good couple of minutes.  Also, when I interact and enter my 
> password, I am able to log in.  And I have done what you suggested.  Still 
> not getting VO at login.
> Thanks,
> Donna
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:24 AM, Shen  wrote:
> 
>> How long are you waiting before realizing VoiceOver is not coming on? Is it 
>> possible the system is still booting up?
>> Also, just for giggles, unchecked the checkbox for starting VoiceOver at the 
>> login screen. Close the Preferences, open it again and check the box again.
>> I would do a complete shut down, then startup.
>> Hope that will help.
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:48 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>>> Yes it is checked.  I've now set my Mac to log in automatically, but I hope 
>>> that isn't the only long-term solution.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:05 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
 Are you sure that you have voiceover in your login items system prefs 
 paine under users set to read at the log on screen?  What if you hit 
 command+F5 to turn it on manually?
 
 If that doesn't work, try fn+Command+F5, provided you have an fn key.
 
 Chris.
 
 - Original Message - From: "Donna Goodin" 
 To: 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 4:33 PM
 Subject: first possible bug in ML
 
 
> Hi all,
> 
> Well, I think I've found my first bug with ML.  I no longer have speech 
> during the log-in process.  To test this, shut down your Mac and reboot. 
> You can still log in, but you will have no speech while you are doing it. 
> Can anyone confirm?
> Thanks,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Need Help with Recovering Contents of a Folder

[Ricardo Walker]

Oh!

I guess you could if your using IMAP or exchange.  Just disconnect from the 
internet before launching Mail.

Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info

On Jul 27, 2012, at 7:23 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:

> The reason I asked is because they were deleted on my iMac, and I have a 
> second system, so I was hoping I could recover the Deleted Folder contents 
> from there.
> 
> Les
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 7:04 AM, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I don't see how you can recover them since you erased them regardless of the 
>> type of Mac you own.
>> 
>> Ricardo Walker
>> rica...@appletothecore.info
>> Twitter:@apple2thecore
>> www.appletothecore.info
>> 
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:45 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>> 
>>> Okay, I had a brain cramp yesterday and caused a problem for myself. I 
>>> inadvertently deleted the contents of my draft mailbox. Of course, I also 
>>> deleted it from the trash. Now I realize it's gone on my Mac. However, I do 
>>> have a MacBook Pro. Is there anyway I can go on to that machine and recover 
>>> my drafts folder contents? Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Less
>>> 
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Re: favorites bar in Mail?

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi Donna,

It might be hidden.  Press command option H.

hth

Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info

On Jul 27, 2012, at 7:33 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Just a curiosity.  I've had my mail in classic view, and may go back to that, 
> but I decided I was curious about playing around with the newer view again.  
> I don't see the favorites bar, though.  How does one find it?
> TIA,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Busy, busy everywhere

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi,

I suggest repairing permissions in disk utilities.

Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info

On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Christine Grassman  wrote:

> Since installing ML, I am noticing a huge increase in "busy" messages in 
> Mail, Safari, Finder -- everywhere. Exceedingly annoying. Sometimes, toggling 
> VO off and on helps, but often not.
> Also, I've noticed that whenever I have to use VO space for anything, it 
> almost always requires a second or third press. Thoughts? Experiences? 
> Work-arounds? TIA.
> Christine
> 
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Re: Busy, busy everywhere

[Christine Grassman]

I have no idea what this means. :)
On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Ricardo Walker  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I suggest repairing permissions in disk utilities.
> 
> Ricardo Walker
> rica...@appletothecore.info
> Twitter:@apple2thecore
> www.appletothecore.info
> 
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Christine Grassman  
> wrote:
> 
>> Since installing ML, I am noticing a huge increase in "busy" messages in 
>> Mail, Safari, Finder -- everywhere. Exceedingly annoying. Sometimes, 
>> toggling VO off and on helps, but often not.
>> Also, I've noticed that whenever I have to use VO space for anything, it 
>> almost always requires a second or third press. Thoughts? Experiences? 
>> Work-arounds? TIA.
>> Christine
>> 
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RE: Busy, busy everywhere

[Daniel Miller]

Christine,

What kind of mac do you have?
Also, to repair disc permitions, go to disc utility, select the disc in the
table, and VO+right arrow over to repair disc permitions. Make sure you're
on the first aid tab first.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine Grassman
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 10:48 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere

I have no idea what this means. :)
On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Ricardo Walker  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I suggest repairing permissions in disk utilities.
> 
> Ricardo Walker
> rica...@appletothecore.info
> Twitter:@apple2thecore
> www.appletothecore.info
> 
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Christine Grassman 
wrote:
> 
>> Since installing ML, I am noticing a huge increase in "busy" messages in
Mail, Safari, Finder -- everywhere. Exceedingly annoying. Sometimes,
toggling VO off and on helps, but often not.
>> Also, I've noticed that whenever I have to use VO space for anything, it
almost always requires a second or third press. Thoughts? Experiences?
Work-arounds? TIA.
>> Christine
>> 
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> 
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Re: favorites bar in Mail?

[Donna Goodin]

thanks, Ricardo, it was.  Got it now.
Take care,
Donna
On Jul 27, 2012, at 10:42 AM, Ricardo Walker  wrote:

> Hi Donna,
> 
> It might be hidden.  Press command option H.
> 
> hth
> 
> Ricardo Walker
> rica...@appletothecore.info
> Twitter:@apple2thecore
> www.appletothecore.info
> 
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 7:33 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Just a curiosity.  I've had my mail in classic view, and may go back to 
>> that, but I decided I was curious about playing around with the newer view 
>> again.  I don't see the favorites bar, though.  How does one find it?
>> TIA,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: first possible bug in ML

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Matthew,

Well, glad I'm not the only one experiencing this.  I wrote to Apple 
Accessibility also, so I'll let you know if I hear anything.
Best,
Donna
On Jul 27, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Matthew Campbell  
wrote:

> Hi Donna.
> I to am seeing this. In my case, it seems to work every so often. I guess it 
> needs to be in the right mood to work properly. *Smile*.
> I'm going to send a message to apple accessibility about this one and I'll 
> report back on any feedback I get.
> 
> On 2012-07-27, at 9:28 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I've waited a good couple of minutes.  Also, when I interact and enter my 
>> password, I am able to log in.  And I have done what you suggested.  Still 
>> not getting VO at login.
>> Thanks,
>> Donna
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:24 AM, Shen  wrote:
>> 
>>> How long are you waiting before realizing VoiceOver is not coming on? Is it 
>>> possible the system is still booting up?
>>> Also, just for giggles, unchecked the checkbox for starting VoiceOver at 
>>> the login screen. Close the Preferences, open it again and check the box 
>>> again.
>>> I would do a complete shut down, then startup.
>>> Hope that will help.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:48 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
 Yes it is checked.  I've now set my Mac to log in automatically, but I 
 hope that isn't the only long-term solution.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:05 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
  wrote:
 
> Are you sure that you have voiceover in your login items system prefs 
> paine under users set to read at the log on screen?  What if you hit 
> command+F5 to turn it on manually?
> 
> If that doesn't work, try fn+Command+F5, provided you have an fn key.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Donna Goodin" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 4:33 PM
> Subject: first possible bug in ML
> 
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Well, I think I've found my first bug with ML.  I no longer have speech 
>> during the log-in process.  To test this, shut down your Mac and reboot. 
>> You can still log in, but you will have no speech while you are doing 
>> it. Can anyone confirm?
>> Thanks,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Busy, busy everywhere

[Alex Hall]

Has anyone else noticed this? I went through enough of that constant
busy stuff before I got a working monitor. If 10.8 causes those
problems, I don't think I'll be upgrading until they're fixed.

On 7/27/12, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I suggest repairing permissions in disk utilities.
>
> Ricardo Walker
> rica...@appletothecore.info
> Twitter:@apple2thecore
> www.appletothecore.info
>
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Christine Grassman 
> wrote:
>
>> Since installing ML, I am noticing a huge increase in "busy" messages in
>> Mail, Safari, Finder -- everywhere. Exceedingly annoying. Sometimes,
>> toggling VO off and on helps, but often not.
>> Also, I've noticed that whenever I have to use VO space for anything, it
>> almost always requires a second or third press. Thoughts? Experiences?
>> Work-arounds? TIA.
>> Christine
>>
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VM Ware Fusion

[Paul Hunt]

Hello everyone. I just downloaded and installed VMWare Fusion 4.1.3 and opened 
my previously created VM. I got to the Login window and JAWS spoke. However, I 
don't know how to move focus to the window. Is there a keyboard shortcut to do 
this or do I need to make a selection from a menu? Since I use a MAC Desk top 
keyboard, I never needed to remap keys before. Has something changed?

Thanks so much.
On Jul 27, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Matthew Campbell  
wrote:

> Hi Donna.
> I to am seeing this. In my case, it seems to work every so often. I guess it 
> needs to be in the right mood to work properly. *Smile*.
> I'm going to send a message to apple accessibility about this one and I'll 
> report back on any feedback I get.
> 
> On 2012-07-27, at 9:28 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I've waited a good couple of minutes.  Also, when I interact and enter my 
>> password, I am able to log in.  And I have done what you suggested.  Still 
>> not getting VO at login.
>> Thanks,
>> Donna
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:24 AM, Shen  wrote:
>> 
>>> How long are you waiting before realizing VoiceOver is not coming on? Is it 
>>> possible the system is still booting up?
>>> Also, just for giggles, unchecked the checkbox for starting VoiceOver at 
>>> the login screen. Close the Preferences, open it again and check the box 
>>> again.
>>> I would do a complete shut down, then startup.
>>> Hope that will help.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:48 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
 Yes it is checked.  I've now set my Mac to log in automatically, but I 
 hope that isn't the only long-term solution.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:05 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
  wrote:
 
> Are you sure that you have voiceover in your login items system prefs 
> paine under users set to read at the log on screen?  What if you hit 
> command+F5 to turn it on manually?
> 
> If that doesn't work, try fn+Command+F5, provided you have an fn key.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Donna Goodin" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 4:33 PM
> Subject: first possible bug in ML
> 
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Well, I think I've found my first bug with ML.  I no longer have speech 
>> during the log-in process.  To test this, shut down your Mac and reboot. 
>> You can still log in, but you will have no speech while you are doing 
>> it. Can anyone confirm?
>> Thanks,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: Help calling apple please

[chris hallsworth]

Try this.
0844 209 0611*.
- Original Message - 
From: "Kirsten Edmondson" 
To: "Viphone Group" ; 


Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:17 AM
Subject: Help calling apple please


Hi all,
Is anyone able to tell me how I go about calling Apple? I'm in the UK. I 
need to report a problem with my face time, it isn't working properly. And 
the only way I can think of resolving it is to call them and ask them. I 
think I do have AppleCare, but I have no idea how it works, as I never used 
it, and cannot read the information. The AppleCare too is for my Mac, and 
the problem I am having with face time is actually on my iPhone, is it still 
valid?


Really, I would like a phone number in the UK to call, where they might help 
me.


I know I can email the accessibility,but I would like to speak to a person. 
Does anyone have any ideas or know where I could go to find a suitable phone 
number?


Thanks
Kirsten


Sent from my iPhone

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RE: Busy, busy everywhere

[Daniel Miller]

Hi,

You guys also need to keep in mind that processor-intensive tasks can cause
it to say busy as well. Also, having a mechanical hard drive as opposed to
an SDD hinders performance too. Not to mention processor speed, ram, etc.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hall
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:18 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere

Has anyone else noticed this? I went through enough of that constant busy
stuff before I got a working monitor. If 10.8 causes those problems, I don't
think I'll be upgrading until they're fixed.

On 7/27/12, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I suggest repairing permissions in disk utilities.
>
> Ricardo Walker
> rica...@appletothecore.info
> Twitter:@apple2thecore
> www.appletothecore.info
>
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Christine Grassman 
> 
> wrote:
>
>> Since installing ML, I am noticing a huge increase in "busy" messages 
>> in Mail, Safari, Finder -- everywhere. Exceedingly annoying. 
>> Sometimes, toggling VO off and on helps, but often not.
>> Also, I've noticed that whenever I have to use VO space for anything, 
>> it almost always requires a second or third press. Thoughts? Experiences?
>> Work-arounds? TIA.
>> Christine
>>
>> --
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>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>>
>
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Re: Help calling apple please

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

For one thing,

your Apple care may, or might not cover your IPhone, as you have to register 
both products for APL Care seperetly.  Just beware. - One warranty doesn't 
cover both.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "chris hallsworth" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: Help calling apple please



Try this.
0844 209 0611*.
- Original Message - 
From: "Kirsten Edmondson" 
To: "Viphone Group" ; 


Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:17 AM
Subject: Help calling apple please


Hi all,
Is anyone able to tell me how I go about calling Apple? I'm in the UK. I 
need to report a problem with my face time, it isn't working properly. And 
the only way I can think of resolving it is to call them and ask them. I 
think I do have AppleCare, but I have no idea how it works, as I never 
used it, and cannot read the information. The AppleCare too is for my Mac, 
and the problem I am having with face time is actually on my iPhone, is it 
still valid?


Really, I would like a phone number in the UK to call, where they might 
help me.


I know I can email the accessibility,but I would like to speak to a 
person. Does anyone have any ideas or know where I could go to find a 
suitable phone number?


Thanks
Kirsten


Sent from my iPhone

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Re: Mountain Lyon and VM users please report in

[Paul Hunt]

Hello Rachel. It wasn't that smooth for me because I hadn't updated to VM 
Fusion 4.1.3 yet. My vision would not run so I downloaded the update and chose 
the option to update from VM 3. After Fusion installed and brought me to the 
library window I opened my vm and it came up and JAWS gave me the login prompt. 
Now I need focus to move into the application window so that I can log in. Is 
there a keystroke for this?

Thanks so much.

. 
On Jul 26, 2012, at 11:48 PM, Rachel Feinberg  wrote:

> I've just done a clean install of mountain Lion, and as long as you have the 
> virtual machines folder with everything from when fusion was working fine 
> before the reformat, you'll be fine. Just place it where you want, open the 
> vmx file once fusion is installed, and things should come up as you'd expect. 
> So relieved that it's all so simple as long as you have all the necessary 
> files. :)
> Rachel
> On Jul 26, 2012, at 9:10 AM, Kliphton  wrote:
> 
>> I am happy to report that VM fusion is working after upgrading to mountain 
>> lion with no issues.  Now when I perform the clean install later this month 
>> we will see, but the upgrade process didn't effect fusion at all!
>> On Jul 25, 2012, at 1:27 PM, Eric Caron  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi listers,
>>> 
>>> Anyone who has upgraded to Mountain Lyon and who had a VM Fusion 
>>> installation, please let us know if the machine is still working nicely 
>>> under Mountain Lyon.  I'm especially interested in those with a JAWS VM as 
>>> I had authorization problems in the past.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for any reports.
>>> Eric Caron 
>>> 
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Re: Busy, busy everywhere

[Alex Hall]

I know that, but if the machine is the same except the OS, we know
where blame falls. With a screen, though, my mini runs quite well. If
10.8 causes that to change, I don't think it would be worth upgrading
at this point.

On 7/27/12, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> You guys also need to keep in mind that processor-intensive tasks can cause
> it to say busy as well. Also, having a mechanical hard drive as opposed to
> an SDD hinders performance too. Not to mention processor speed, ram, etc.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hall
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:18 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere
>
> Has anyone else noticed this? I went through enough of that constant busy
> stuff before I got a working monitor. If 10.8 causes those problems, I
> don't
> think I'll be upgrading until they're fixed.
>
> On 7/27/12, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I suggest repairing permissions in disk utilities.
>>
>> Ricardo Walker
>> rica...@appletothecore.info
>> Twitter:@apple2thecore
>> www.appletothecore.info
>>
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Christine Grassman
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Since installing ML, I am noticing a huge increase in "busy" messages
>>> in Mail, Safari, Finder -- everywhere. Exceedingly annoying.
>>> Sometimes, toggling VO off and on helps, but often not.
>>> Also, I've noticed that whenever I have to use VO space for anything,
>>> it almost always requires a second or third press. Thoughts?
>>> Experiences?
>>> Work-arounds? TIA.
>>> Christine
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
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>
>
> --
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> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
> mehg...@gmail.com
>
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Re: Help calling apple please

[Kirsten Edmondson]

Thank you for the phone numbers everybody. I won't use my AppleCare, as I think 
that is just for my Mac. I will try the UK number and ask if they will help me, 
they either we'll all won't, it won't hurt to ask. If the worst comes to worst, 
I will find my local Apple shop and go in there.

Sent from my iPhone

On 27 Jul 2012, at 17:31, "Christopher-Mark Gilland"  
wrote:

> For one thing,
> 
> your Apple care may, or might not cover your IPhone, as you have to register 
> both products for APL Care seperetly.  Just beware. - One warranty doesn't 
> cover both.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "chris hallsworth" 
> 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Help calling apple please
> 
> 
>> Try this.
>> 0844 209 0611*.
>> - Original Message - From: "Kirsten Edmondson" 
>> 
>> To: "Viphone Group" ; 
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:17 AM
>> Subject: Help calling apple please
>> 
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> Is anyone able to tell me how I go about calling Apple? I'm in the UK. I 
>> need to report a problem with my face time, it isn't working properly. And 
>> the only way I can think of resolving it is to call them and ask them. I 
>> think I do have AppleCare, but I have no idea how it works, as I never used 
>> it, and cannot read the information. The AppleCare too is for my Mac, and 
>> the problem I am having with face time is actually on my iPhone, is it still 
>> valid?
>> 
>> Really, I would like a phone number in the UK to call, where they might help 
>> me.
>> 
>> I know I can email the accessibility,but I would like to speak to a person. 
>> Does anyone have any ideas or know where I could go to find a suitable phone 
>> number?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Kirsten
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> -- 
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RE: Busy, busy everywhere

[Daniel Miller]

Do a clean install, then. I've never, ever just installed over a previous
OS, for that very reason. I want the best performance possible, and clean
installing gives me that.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hall
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:41 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere

I know that, but if the machine is the same except the OS, we know where
blame falls. With a screen, though, my mini runs quite well. If
10.8 causes that to change, I don't think it would be worth upgrading at
this point.

On 7/27/12, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> You guys also need to keep in mind that processor-intensive tasks can 
> cause it to say busy as well. Also, having a mechanical hard drive as 
> opposed to an SDD hinders performance too. Not to mention processor speed,
ram, etc.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hall
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:18 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere
>
> Has anyone else noticed this? I went through enough of that constant 
> busy stuff before I got a working monitor. If 10.8 causes those 
> problems, I don't think I'll be upgrading until they're fixed.
>
> On 7/27/12, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I suggest repairing permissions in disk utilities.
>>
>> Ricardo Walker
>> rica...@appletothecore.info
>> Twitter:@apple2thecore
>> www.appletothecore.info
>>
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Christine Grassman 
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Since installing ML, I am noticing a huge increase in "busy" 
>>> messages in Mail, Safari, Finder -- everywhere. Exceedingly annoying.
>>> Sometimes, toggling VO off and on helps, but often not.
>>> Also, I've noticed that whenever I have to use VO space for 
>>> anything, it almost always requires a second or third press. Thoughts?
>>> Experiences?
>>> Work-arounds? TIA.
>>> Christine
>>>
>>> --
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>>
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>
>
> --
> Have a great day,
> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
> mehg...@gmail.com
>
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Re: Numbers

[Harry Hogue]

Hi Anne,

I've been going to the layout area and interacting with it, where I can see the 
tables I've added there.  When that didn't seem to work, however, I went to the 
item chooser, to the sheets table, interacted, and brought the mouse over so I 
could move about.  That worked.  Is there a quicker way to get to the sheets 
table, however?

With regards to the menus, it's strange.  I'm able to put items in the menus, 
but it never tells me which is selected; it only says "menu cell," or something 
like that.  That was back in Lion when I tried it, so I didn't know if anyone 
knew if accessibility had improved or not.

And it really does seem when things aren't working with Voiceover that the 
solution is more often than not to move the mouse to a particular spot and 
manipulate it that way.

Thanks,

Harry

On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:5tson  wrote:

> Hello Harry,
> 
> To edit the contents of a cell, press the space bar. In the case of menus, 
> this will bring up the menu.
> 
> To rename the table, go to the Sheets table, interact with it and navigate to 
> the one you want to rename. Bring the mouse and double click using the 
> trackpad, then type the new name and press Return.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> On 27 Jul 2012, at 03:06, Harry Hogue wrote:
>> 
>> Is anyone familiar with Numbers and using the menus, checkboxes, etc. 
>> features?  I would like to create an attendance tracker to practice skills 
>> in Numbers, but I just now looked at the template for an employee schedule, 
>> and the menu options that are placed into the cells are all dimmed, and 
>> although it gives times inside of those menus (times the employee signed 
>> in/out, for example), VoiceOver does not read this information.  Should I be 
>> going about this type of thing another way?  I want to be able to create 
>> professional presentations using Numbers that will give me the information I 
>> need about my budget, or my upcoming internship schedule, and that kind of 
>> thing, but I want to have it be in a way that is accessible when using 
>> VoiceOver, obviously.  Right now I'm trying to create the attendance tracker 
>> with information modeled off the office.com website using Excel 2003.  I 
>> want to learn how to do these various things because Numbers/Excel has 
>> always been a weak area of mine.  How, for example, do you rename a table?
>> 
>> I would appreciate any thoughts from a confident Numbers user.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Harry
>> 
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> 
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notification center

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

Is anyone actually able to read notifications in the notification center?  So 
far I have not been able to do that. IF so, how are you doing it?
Best,
Donna

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RE: notification center

[Daniel Miller]

Hi,

Yes, when you go into notification center, there's a table. Interact with
that table, and there are your notifications.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:53 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: notification center

Hi all,

Is anyone actually able to read notifications in the notification center?
So far I have not been able to do that. IF so, how are you doing it?
Best,
Donna

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Re: notification center

[Donna Goodin]

Hmm, I tried that.  Weird.  Thanks, though. :)
Donna
On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Daniel Miller  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Yes, when you go into notification center, there's a table. Interact with
> that table, and there are your notifications.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:53 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: notification center
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Is anyone actually able to read notifications in the notification center?
> So far I have not been able to do that. IF so, how are you doing it?
> Best,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
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Re: in Pages

[Harry Hogue]

Anne, was it you who offers Pages training via Skype, or was that someone else? 
 I remember this was mentioned, and it would be worth it to me to take 
advantage of that training.

Best,

Harry

On Jul 27, 2012, at 1:37 AM, Anne Robertson  wrote:

> Hello Harry,
> 
> To edit header and footer areas in Pages, you need to interact with the area 
> then bring the mouse and do a simulated mouse click (VO-Shift-Space bar) to 
> move the focus to that area. We teach all this in our Pages course.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> On 27 Jul 2012, at 03:37, Harry Hogue wrote:
> 
>> Do you happen to have any suggestions for using headers and footers in Pages 
>> with regards to Quick Nav?  As I play with business letter templates, I am 
>> noticin you have to select each word/phrase to of the placeholder text you 
>> want replaced and write in your repalcement, which works fine.  The issue 
>> comes when trying to move to the header and footers to enter information.  
>> You seem to need quick nav for this, but then I am unable to edit anything 
>> in the header or footer areas.  I just wondered if you had any thoughts?  I 
>> have gotten used to Quick nav, but I may turn it of and go about without 
>> using it, since it is really less useful than I always thought it was.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Harry
> 
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Re: in Pages

[Harry Hogue]

That's interesting, though, Alex, isn't it?

Crazy stuff.

Harry


On Jul 27, 2012, at 4:31 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:

> Harry, I don't know how, I just know it can. I haven't tried it yet,
> only read about it online.
> 
> On 7/27/12, Anne Robertson  wrote:
>> Hello Harry,
>> 
>> To edit header and footer areas in Pages, you need to interact with the area
>> then bring the mouse and do a simulated mouse click (VO-Shift-Space bar) to
>> move the focus to that area. We teach all this in our Pages course.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Anne
>> 
>> 
>> On 27 Jul 2012, at 03:37, Harry Hogue wrote:
>> 
>>> Do you happen to have any suggestions for using headers and footers in
>>> Pages with regards to Quick Nav?  As I play with business letter
>>> templates, I am noticin you have to select each word/phrase to of the
>>> placeholder text you want replaced and write in your repalcement, which
>>> works fine.  The issue comes when trying to move to the header and footers
>>> to enter information.  You seem to need quick nav for this, but then I am
>>> unable to edit anything in the header or footer areas.  I just wondered if
>>> you had any thoughts?  I have gotten used to Quick nav, but I may turn it
>>> of and go about without using it, since it is really less useful than I
>>> always thought it was.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Harry
>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Have a great day,
> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
> mehg...@gmail.com
> 
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Re: Weird mail problem with Mountain Kitty

[Steve Holmes]

One wierd thing I noticed last night with Mail is the mailboxes that
VO says are at level zero had to be expanded or collapsed with
VO-backslash but the other boxes with higher level numbers could be
expanded and collapsed with right and left arrows like I always do.
It was just the top level (level 0) entries that I had to use the
vo-backslash.  Not sure of why the difference.  Beyond that, I have
mail working nearly perfectly for me now.

PS: I think a month or so, some of my settings for Mail got reverted
and messed up some of my IMAP folders on gmail but I got them
straightened out now. Now if they would just stick and not revert in
the future, all will be good.

On 7/27/12, Eugenia Firth  wrote:
> Thanks Greg. I did, thanks to Les, get the boxes uncollapsed. However, it's
> not as good and convenient that way it was before, so when I get a chance I
> will try what you did. I need to remember how to get into classic view.
>
>
> Eugenia Firth
> gigifi...@sbcglobal.net
>
>
>
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 7:57 AM, Greg Aikens  wrote:
>
>> Gigi,
>> I was having this same problem.  NO matter how many people suggested that
>> I use VO \, it just wouldn't open for me.  But, I did a couple of things
>> and was able to fix my problem.  I'm not exactly sure which of these did
>> it, so maybe you can try them all?
>>
>> First, I switched to classic view.  I then went to my list of mailboxes
>> and when I got to the collapsed account, I interacted with it and tried VO
>> \ on it.  This worked to expand the collapsed folder structure.  I then
>> went back to modern view and tried it a few times and it also worked to
>> interact first and then try VO \.  Not sure why this worked, but it did.
>>
>>
>> I would try interacting with the collapsed folder and then hitting VO \.
>> I don't really think switching to classic view did anything for me.
>>
>> I hope this works for you like it did for me.  I was very frustrated
>> before this worked.
>>
>> -Greg
>>
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:50 AM, Gigi  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi guys
>>> Well, last night I had to call the 877 number to talk to them about this
>>> weird problem. It is being referred to the engineering people. Because,
>>> the screens of the siding people are just like ours but they can use, of
>>> course, there are Mousas to go over the thing to select it. I just got
>>> told last night there's no way to do it with voiceover. I am supposed to
>>> get a phone call about this later. He asked me if I wanted to get an
>>> email or phone call.
>>> For right now, I canceled all the rules I head. That way, at least I can
>>> get everything in my inbox. Of course, I can also get mail on my iPhone
>>> fortunately.
>>> Regards
>>> Gigi
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jul 26, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Greg Aikens  wrote:
>>>
 Hi,
 I am having the same problem.  My inbox is expanded so that I see the
 separate inboxes for my separate accounts.  However, I can't see the
 list of folders under each account.  These used to appear below my trash
 folder in the list of mailboxes.  In Lion, I could hide these folders by
 clicking on a disclosure triangle for each account.  Using VO+down arrow
 on the list of mailboxes allows me to move past the trash folder to
 items with the names of my email accounts and a disclosure triangle.
 When I interact with these items to try and press the triangle to expand
 the list, I can't.  VO+space, pressing enter, left and right arrows
 won't do it.

 Any other suggestions?

 -Greg

 On Jul 26, 2012, at 12:26 PM, Matthew Campbell
  wrote:

> Hi.
> Is you're mailbox list expanded?
> Go to you inbox which'll be at the top, and hit right arrow. THis'll
> expand the mailboxes for you.
> HTH,
> Matthew Campbell.
>
>
> On 2012-07-26, at 1:09 PM, Eugenia Firth 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi guys.
>> I got Mountain Kitty installed just fine, even though it took forever.
>> I'm really pleased that I could do the installation process myself,
>> but I'm glad also that Les warned us about turning VoiceOver back on
>> after a minute. I almost had heart failure when I pressed command 5
>> and nothing happened for a second or two. I did have to call that
>> great 877 number last night because a program I thought I had
>> uninstalled insisted on raising up its ugly head, even though I had—I
>> thought—erased all of its files. That took us a while, and the man was
>> very nice and knowledgeable about things. I discovered ast night that
>> I had this weird mail problem, but we couldn't get to that last night.
>>
>>
>> I can't get to all my mailboxes. The one where I have messages sent
>> for this list is one of them. I will need to use iPhone to read
>> anything from this list right now. I can get to my inbox and some
>> others like archives. However, some of the ones I created I can't
>> find. I don't thin

Re: Busy, busy everywhere

[Christine Grassman]

I've got a thirteen-inch white MacBook purchased in February 2011.

On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:54 AM, "Daniel Miller"  wrote:

> Christine,
> 
> What kind of mac do you have?
> Also, to repair disc permitions, go to disc utility, select the disc in the
> table, and VO+right arrow over to repair disc permitions. Make sure you're
> on the first aid tab first.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine Grassman
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 10:48 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere
> 
> I have no idea what this means. :)
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I suggest repairing permissions in disk utilities.
>> 
>> Ricardo Walker
>> rica...@appletothecore.info
>> Twitter:@apple2thecore
>> www.appletothecore.info
>> 
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Christine Grassman 
> wrote:
>> 
>>> Since installing ML, I am noticing a huge increase in "busy" messages in
> Mail, Safari, Finder -- everywhere. Exceedingly annoying. Sometimes,
> toggling VO off and on helps, but often not.
>>> Also, I've noticed that whenever I have to use VO space for anything, it
> almost always requires a second or third press. Thoughts? Experiences?
> Work-arounds? TIA.
>>> Christine
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> 
>> 
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RE: Busy, busy everywhere

[Daniel Miller]

How much ram and processor speed? Go to about this mac.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine Grassman
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 10:56 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere

I've got a thirteen-inch white MacBook purchased in February 2011.

On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:54 AM, "Daniel Miller"  wrote:

> Christine,
> 
> What kind of mac do you have?
> Also, to repair disc permitions, go to disc utility, select the disc 
> in the table, and VO+right arrow over to repair disc permitions. Make 
> sure you're on the first aid tab first.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine 
> Grassman
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 10:48 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere
> 
> I have no idea what this means. :)
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I suggest repairing permissions in disk utilities.
>> 
>> Ricardo Walker
>> rica...@appletothecore.info
>> Twitter:@apple2thecore
>> www.appletothecore.info
>> 
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Christine Grassman 
>> 
> wrote:
>> 
>>> Since installing ML, I am noticing a huge increase in "busy" 
>>> messages in
> Mail, Safari, Finder -- everywhere. Exceedingly annoying. Sometimes, 
> toggling VO off and on helps, but often not.
>>> Also, I've noticed that whenever I have to use VO space for 
>>> anything, it
> almost always requires a second or third press. Thoughts? Experiences?
> Work-arounds? TIA.
>>> Christine
>>> 
>>> --
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>> 
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Re: first possible bug in ML

[Shen]

Hi Donna,
Not sure why this is happening to you. Then again, I have strange
things happen to my VoiceOver as well that I'm sure no one has
experienced.
Please do let me know what happens if you decide to call Apple
Accessibility or bring your machine into the Genius Bar.
Just out of curiosity, have you tried pressing Command-F5 at the login
screen to see if VoiceOver starts or not?
Let's say, that VoiceOver is running, but just isn't speaking. If you
press Command-F5, that will then turn it off. Assuming nothing else is
wrong, if you press Command-F5 again, it should come back on and you
should hear speech.
I know this is a pain in the butt.




On 7/27/12, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> Hi Matthew,
>
> Well, glad I'm not the only one experiencing this.  I wrote to Apple
> Accessibility also, so I'll let you know if I hear anything.
> Best,
> Donna
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Matthew Campbell 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Donna.
>> I to am seeing this. In my case, it seems to work every so often. I guess
>> it needs to be in the right mood to work properly. *Smile*.
>> I'm going to send a message to apple accessibility about this one and I'll
>> report back on any feedback I get.
>>
>> On 2012-07-27, at 9:28 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I've waited a good couple of minutes.  Also, when I interact and enter my
>>> password, I am able to log in.  And I have done what you suggested.
>>> Still not getting VO at login.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Donna
>>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:24 AM, Shen  wrote:
>>>
 How long are you waiting before realizing VoiceOver is not coming on? Is
 it possible the system is still booting up?
 Also, just for giggles, unchecked the checkbox for starting VoiceOver at
 the login screen. Close the Preferences, open it again and check the box
 again.
 I would do a complete shut down, then startup.
 Hope that will help.


 On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:48 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

> Yes it is checked.  I've now set my Mac to log in automatically, but I
> hope that isn't the only long-term solution.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:05 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland
>  wrote:
>
>> Are you sure that you have voiceover in your login items system prefs
>> paine under users set to read at the log on screen?  What if you hit
>> command+F5 to turn it on manually?
>>
>> If that doesn't work, try fn+Command+F5, provided you have an fn key.
>>
>> Chris.
>>
>> - Original Message - From: "Donna Goodin" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 4:33 PM
>> Subject: first possible bug in ML
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Well, I think I've found my first bug with ML.  I no longer have
>>> speech during the log-in process.  To test this, shut down your Mac
>>> and reboot. You can still log in, but you will have no speech while
>>> you are doing it. Can anyone confirm?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Donna
>>>
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Re: Busy, busy everywhere

[Pete Nalda]

I hope I'm wrong on this, but I thought the silver MacBooks were the earliest 
that could run Mountain Lion. 

Egun On, Lagunak! Basque for G'day, Mates
Louie P. (Pete) Nalda
Http://www.myspace.com/lpnalda
Http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda
Http://www.linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
Twitter @lpnalda



On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:09 PM, "Daniel Miller"  wrote:

> How much ram and processor speed? Go to about this mac.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine Grassman
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 10:56 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere
> 
> I've got a thirteen-inch white MacBook purchased in February 2011.
> 
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:54 AM, "Daniel Miller"  wrote:
> 
>> Christine,
>> 
>> What kind of mac do you have?
>> Also, to repair disc permitions, go to disc utility, select the disc 
>> in the table, and VO+right arrow over to repair disc permitions. Make 
>> sure you're on the first aid tab first.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine 
>> Grassman
>> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 10:48 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere
>> 
>> I have no idea what this means. :)
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Ricardo Walker  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I suggest repairing permissions in disk utilities.
>>> 
>>> Ricardo Walker
>>> rica...@appletothecore.info
>>> Twitter:@apple2thecore
>>> www.appletothecore.info
>>> 
>>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Christine Grassman
>>> 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 Since installing ML, I am noticing a huge increase in "busy" 
 messages in
>> Mail, Safari, Finder -- everywhere. Exceedingly annoying. Sometimes, 
>> toggling VO off and on helps, but often not.
 Also, I've noticed that whenever I have to use VO space for 
 anything, it
>> almost always requires a second or third press. Thoughts? Experiences?
>> Work-arounds? TIA.
 Christine
 
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Re: first possible bug in ML

[Mark BurningHawk Baxter]

One good test of whether or not you're getting volume out your speakers is just 
to hit F11 or F12 until you hear the click. I love that click.  After you hear 
it, … you know what? I'm going to try a complete restart--off and on 
again--cause I'm curious now.


 • Mark BurningHawk Baxter
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 • MSN:  burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
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 • http://MarkBurningHawk.net/

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Re: Weird mail problem with Mountain Kitty

[Shen]

Hi all,
Even though some of you have success using VO-Backslash and others
swear by left and right arrow keys, the 2 are very similar but are
still different.
In the VoiceOver Getting Started guide, VO-Backslash is an official
VoiceOver command, but left and right arrow keys are not.
The function of VO-Backslash is to expand and collapse treeviews and
disclosure triangles. In Mail, conversations can be expanded and
collapsed using either keyboard combinations. But in other apps such
as iTunes, you will not be able to use left and right arrow keys. For
example, in the Sources treeview, you must use VO-Backslash to expand
and collapse playlists.
Why the difference, I can't tell you. But I do know that if you come
across anything that VoiceOver announces is expandable and
collapsible, it's a guarantee VO-backslash will work.
As far as why VO-backslash does not work for some of you, keep in mind
that when you are in the messages table, in order for VO-backslash to
work on the conversation column, you must interact with the table. You
don't necessarily need to interact with the conversations column, but
you must interact with the messages table in order for the function to
work.



On 7/27/12, Steve Holmes  wrote:
> One wierd thing I noticed last night with Mail is the mailboxes that
> VO says are at level zero had to be expanded or collapsed with
> VO-backslash but the other boxes with higher level numbers could be
> expanded and collapsed with right and left arrows like I always do.
> It was just the top level (level 0) entries that I had to use the
> vo-backslash.  Not sure of why the difference.  Beyond that, I have
> mail working nearly perfectly for me now.
>
> PS: I think a month or so, some of my settings for Mail got reverted
> and messed up some of my IMAP folders on gmail but I got them
> straightened out now. Now if they would just stick and not revert in
> the future, all will be good.
>
> On 7/27/12, Eugenia Firth  wrote:
>> Thanks Greg. I did, thanks to Les, get the boxes uncollapsed. However,
>> it's
>> not as good and convenient that way it was before, so when I get a chance
>> I
>> will try what you did. I need to remember how to get into classic view.
>>
>>
>> Eugenia Firth
>> gigifi...@sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 7:57 AM, Greg Aikens  wrote:
>>
>>> Gigi,
>>> I was having this same problem.  NO matter how many people suggested
>>> that
>>> I use VO \, it just wouldn't open for me.  But, I did a couple of things
>>> and was able to fix my problem.  I'm not exactly sure which of these did
>>> it, so maybe you can try them all?
>>>
>>> First, I switched to classic view.  I then went to my list of mailboxes
>>> and when I got to the collapsed account, I interacted with it and tried
>>> VO
>>> \ on it.  This worked to expand the collapsed folder structure.  I then
>>> went back to modern view and tried it a few times and it also worked to
>>> interact first and then try VO \.  Not sure why this worked, but it did.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would try interacting with the collapsed folder and then hitting VO \.
>>> I don't really think switching to classic view did anything for me.
>>>
>>> I hope this works for you like it did for me.  I was very frustrated
>>> before this worked.
>>>
>>> -Greg
>>>
>>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 6:50 AM, Gigi  wrote:
>>>
 Hi guys
 Well, last night I had to call the 877 number to talk to them about
 this
 weird problem. It is being referred to the engineering people. Because,
 the screens of the siding people are just like ours but they can use,
 of
 course, there are Mousas to go over the thing to select it. I just got
 told last night there's no way to do it with voiceover. I am supposed
 to
 get a phone call about this later. He asked me if I wanted to get an
 email or phone call.
 For right now, I canceled all the rules I head. That way, at least I
 can
 get everything in my inbox. Of course, I can also get mail on my iPhone
 fortunately.
 Regards
 Gigi

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 26, 2012, at 12:42 PM, Greg Aikens  wrote:

> Hi,
> I am having the same problem.  My inbox is expanded so that I see the
> separate inboxes for my separate accounts.  However, I can't see the
> list of folders under each account.  These used to appear below my
> trash
> folder in the list of mailboxes.  In Lion, I could hide these folders
> by
> clicking on a disclosure triangle for each account.  Using VO+down
> arrow
> on the list of mailboxes allows me to move past the trash folder to
> items with the names of my email accounts and a disclosure triangle.
> When I interact with these items to try and press the triangle to
> expand
> the list, I can't.  VO+space, pressing enter, left and right arrows
> won't do it.
>
> Any other suggestions?
>
> -Greg
>
> On Jul 26, 2012, at 12:26 PM, Matthew Campbell
>  wrote

Re: keyboard shortcuts

[Shen]

http://www.apple.com/accessibility/voiceover/downloads.html

Keep in mind the keyboard shortcuts is also available in VoiceOver
Help by pressing VO-H.
For iOS devices, if you open Safari, the page is in your Bookmarks.


On 7/27/12, Stacey Robinson  wrote:
> Hi,
> What is the address for keyboard shortcuts for the mac?
> (VoiceOver and Otherwise)
> Stacey and Chesley
>
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:20 AM, Shen wrote:
>
>> How interesting. VO-Backslash is still working for me just fine.
>> Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to read any of my emails since they are all
>> grouped by conversations.
>> FYI, the Apple accessibility webpage does have a Getting Started guide
>> which has the entire summary of keyboard shortcuts in Appendix A.
>> Sometimes, I'm impatient and don't want to read lengthy explanations.
>> Instead, I just get to know all the keyboard shortcuts.
>>
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Harry Hogue  wrote:
>>
>>> Strange.  I often wonder how we're supposed to learn these things.  :)
>>> Thanks much.
>>>
>>> Harry
>>>
>>> On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:18 PM, Austin Seraphin 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 True. Vo-backslash doesn't work. Vo-space however does.

 - Austin




 On Jul 25, 2012, at 7:20 PM, Harry Hogue  wrote:

> Hi, guys,
>
> Not sure if others have experienced this, but in the Mail App,
> expanding mail messages either with command right arrow or VO+backslash
> doesn't seem to work.  I get a sound when I try to do it.
> I really like the status menus, though.
>
> Harry
>
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Re: Weird mail problem with Mountain Kitty

[Mark BurningHawk Baxter]

The other thing that left and right arrows do is, when in a column or directory 
tree mode in Finder, open or close subfolders.  I'm wondering if the difference 
is that some users are using a grid layout and others a column layout in 
Finder?  I know it shouldn't matter inside Mail, but I don't care; I still 
wonder if this is the crucial difference between those successfully using an 
arrow versus the Backslash contingent.

PS:  I just did a shutdown and restart.  the new kitty is hella slow to wake 
up, but after forever VoiceOver DID come up in the window.  The new procedure, 
once you establish VO, is to interact with the "users scroll area," then 
interact with your user name, then press the button, enter password.  Unless 
you don't have one, in which case everything I just said is meaningless.  
That's usually the case with me.


 • Mark BurningHawk Baxter
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 • MSN:  burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
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RE: Busy, busy everywhere

[Daniel Miller]

.MacBook (Late 2008 Aluminum, or Early 2009 or newer)

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Nalda
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:15 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere

I hope I'm wrong on this, but I thought the silver MacBooks were the
earliest that could run Mountain Lion. 

Egun On, Lagunak! Basque for G'day, Mates Louie P. (Pete) Nalda
Http://www.myspace.com/lpnalda Http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda
Http://www.linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
Twitter @lpnalda



On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:09 PM, "Daniel Miller"  wrote:

> How much ram and processor speed? Go to about this mac.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine 
> Grassman
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 10:56 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere
> 
> I've got a thirteen-inch white MacBook purchased in February 2011.
> 
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:54 AM, "Daniel Miller"  wrote:
> 
>> Christine,
>> 
>> What kind of mac do you have?
>> Also, to repair disc permitions, go to disc utility, select the disc 
>> in the table, and VO+right arrow over to repair disc permitions. Make 
>> sure you're on the first aid tab first.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine 
>> Grassman
>> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 10:48 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere
>> 
>> I have no idea what this means. :)
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Ricardo Walker 
wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I suggest repairing permissions in disk utilities.
>>> 
>>> Ricardo Walker
>>> rica...@appletothecore.info
>>> Twitter:@apple2thecore
>>> www.appletothecore.info
>>> 
>>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Christine Grassman 
>>> 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 Since installing ML, I am noticing a huge increase in "busy" 
 messages in
>> Mail, Safari, Finder -- everywhere. Exceedingly annoying. Sometimes, 
>> toggling VO off and on helps, but often not.
 Also, I've noticed that whenever I have to use VO space for 
 anything, it
>> almost always requires a second or third press. Thoughts? Experiences?
>> Work-arounds? TIA.
 Christine
 
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Re: notification center

[Ray Foret Jr]

Well, with me, what happens is that notifications are not given to me unless I 
start up my Mac. I don't know why this is, but it is. Also, another thing is 
that all throughout the day when I have my MacBook Pro Walton, notifications 
are simply not put in the notification Center. Couldn't possibly be something 
that I'm doing wrong or have set wrong? Thanks.

Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!

Skype name:
barefootedray

On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:55 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:

> Hmm, I tried that.  Weird.  Thanks, though. :)
> Donna
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Yes, when you go into notification center, there's a table. Interact with
>> that table, and there are your notifications.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:53 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: notification center
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Is anyone actually able to read notifications in the notification center?
>> So far I have not been able to do that. IF so, how are you doing it?
>> Best,
>> Donna
>> 
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RE: notification center

[Daniel Miller]

Um.that's kind of the point, your mac needs to be awake. Lol.

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:34 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: notification center

 

Well, with me, what happens is that notifications are not given to me unless
I start up my Mac. I don't know why this is, but it is. Also, another thing
is that all throughout the day when I have my MacBook Pro Walton,
notifications are simply not put in the notification Center. Couldn't
possibly be something that I'm doing wrong or have set wrong? Thanks.

 

Sincerely,

The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

 

Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!

 

Skype name:

barefootedray

 

On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:55 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:





Hmm, I tried that.  Weird.  Thanks, though. :)
Donna
On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Daniel Miller  wrote:




Hi,

Yes, when you go into notification center, there's a table. Interact with
that table, and there are your notifications.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:53 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: notification center

Hi all,

Is anyone actually able to read notifications in the notification center?
So far I have not been able to do that. IF so, how are you doing it?
Best,
Donna

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Re: Busy, busy everywhere

[Pete Nalda]

I thought this was so,  so was posting on account of Christine saying she had a 
white MacBook. 

Egun On, Lagunak! Basque for G'day, Mates
Louie P. (Pete) Nalda
Http://www.myspace.com/lpnalda
Http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda
Http://www.linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
Twitter @lpnalda



On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:33 PM, "Daniel Miller"  wrote:

> .MacBook (Late 2008 Aluminum, or Early 2009 or newer)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Nalda
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:15 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere
> 
> I hope I'm wrong on this, but I thought the silver MacBooks were the
> earliest that could run Mountain Lion. 
> 
> Egun On, Lagunak! Basque for G'day, Mates Louie P. (Pete) Nalda
> Http://www.myspace.com/lpnalda Http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda
> Http://www.linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
> Twitter @lpnalda
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:09 PM, "Daniel Miller"  wrote:
> 
>> How much ram and processor speed? Go to about this mac.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine 
>> Grassman
>> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 10:56 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere
>> 
>> I've got a thirteen-inch white MacBook purchased in February 2011.
>> 
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:54 AM, "Daniel Miller"  wrote:
>> 
>>> Christine,
>>> 
>>> What kind of mac do you have?
>>> Also, to repair disc permitions, go to disc utility, select the disc 
>>> in the table, and VO+right arrow over to repair disc permitions. Make 
>>> sure you're on the first aid tab first.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine 
>>> Grassman
>>> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 10:48 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere
>>> 
>>> I have no idea what this means. :)
>>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Ricardo Walker 
> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 
 I suggest repairing permissions in disk utilities.
 
 Ricardo Walker
 rica...@appletothecore.info
 Twitter:@apple2thecore
 www.appletothecore.info
 
 On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Christine Grassman
 
>>> wrote:
 
> Since installing ML, I am noticing a huge increase in "busy" 
> messages in
>>> Mail, Safari, Finder -- everywhere. Exceedingly annoying. Sometimes, 
>>> toggling VO off and on helps, but often not.
> Also, I've noticed that whenever I have to use VO space for 
> anything, it
>>> almost always requires a second or third press. Thoughts? Experiences?
>>> Work-arounds? TIA.
> Christine
> 
> --
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> Groups
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> 
 
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RE: Busy, busy everywhere

[Daniel Miller]

She does have a white MacBook. However, I had one as well, and encountered
tons of busy messages with Lion. I believe those machines only had 2GB of
ram stock, so that's what's causing her busy issues.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Nalda
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:36 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere

I thought this was so,  so was posting on account of Christine saying she
had a white MacBook. 

Egun On, Lagunak! Basque for G'day, Mates Louie P. (Pete) Nalda
Http://www.myspace.com/lpnalda Http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda
Http://www.linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
Twitter @lpnalda



On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:33 PM, "Daniel Miller"  wrote:

> .MacBook (Late 2008 Aluminum, or Early 2009 or newer)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Nalda
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:15 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere
> 
> I hope I'm wrong on this, but I thought the silver MacBooks were the 
> earliest that could run Mountain Lion.
> 
> Egun On, Lagunak! Basque for G'day, Mates Louie P. (Pete) Nalda 
> Http://www.myspace.com/lpnalda Http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda 
> Http://www.linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
> Twitter @lpnalda
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:09 PM, "Daniel Miller"  wrote:
> 
>> How much ram and processor speed? Go to about this mac.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine 
>> Grassman
>> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 10:56 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere
>> 
>> I've got a thirteen-inch white MacBook purchased in February 2011.
>> 
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:54 AM, "Daniel Miller" 
wrote:
>> 
>>> Christine,
>>> 
>>> What kind of mac do you have?
>>> Also, to repair disc permitions, go to disc utility, select the disc 
>>> in the table, and VO+right arrow over to repair disc permitions. 
>>> Make sure you're on the first aid tab first.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christine 
>>> Grassman
>>> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 10:48 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Busy, busy everywhere
>>> 
>>> I have no idea what this means. :)
>>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:43 AM, Ricardo Walker 
> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 
 I suggest repairing permissions in disk utilities.
 
 Ricardo Walker
 rica...@appletothecore.info
 Twitter:@apple2thecore
 www.appletothecore.info
 
 On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:10 AM, Christine Grassman 
 
>>> wrote:
 
> Since installing ML, I am noticing a huge increase in "busy" 
> messages in
>>> Mail, Safari, Finder -- everywhere. Exceedingly annoying. Sometimes, 
>>> toggling VO off and on helps, but often not.
> Also, I've noticed that whenever I have to use VO space for 
> anything, it
>>> almost always requires a second or third press. Thoughts? Experiences?
>>> Work-arounds? TIA.
> Christine
> 
> --
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> Groups
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> To pos

Re: Numbers

[Tim Kilburn]

Harry,

Try using VO-cmd-t to go to the Sheets Table.  this command takes you between 
tables within the given document.

I also haven't yet been able to have VO read the contents of a cell with a 
pop-up within.  It allows me to select but does not read what has been selected 
when navigating through at a later time.

I'll play some more to see if I can get anywhere.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On 2012-07-27, at 10:55 AM, Harry Hogue  wrote:

> Hi Anne,
> 
> I've been going to the layout area and interacting with it, where I can see 
> the tables I've added there.  When that didn't seem to work, however, I went 
> to the item chooser, to the sheets table, interacted, and brought the mouse 
> over so I could move about.  That worked.  Is there a quicker way to get to 
> the sheets table, however?
> 
> With regards to the menus, it's strange.  I'm able to put items in the menus, 
> but it never tells me which is selected; it only says "menu cell," or 
> something like that.  That was back in Lion when I tried it, so I didn't know 
> if anyone knew if accessibility had improved or not.
> 
> And it really does seem when things aren't working with Voiceover that the 
> solution is more often than not to move the mouse to a particular spot and 
> manipulate it that way.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Harry
> 
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:5tson  wrote:
> 
>> Hello Harry,
>> 
>> To edit the contents of a cell, press the space bar. In the case of menus, 
>> this will bring up the menu.
>> 
>> To rename the table, go to the Sheets table, interact with it and navigate 
>> to the one you want to rename. Bring the mouse and double click using the 
>> trackpad, then type the new name and press Return.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Anne
>> 
>> 
>> On 27 Jul 2012, at 03:06, Harry Hogue wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is anyone familiar with Numbers and using the menus, checkboxes, etc. 
>>> features?  I would like to create an attendance tracker to practice skills 
>>> in Numbers, but I just now looked at the template for an employee schedule, 
>>> and the menu options that are placed into the cells are all dimmed, and 
>>> although it gives times inside of those menus (times the employee signed 
>>> in/out, for example), VoiceOver does not read this information.  Should I 
>>> be going about this type of thing another way?  I want to be able to create 
>>> professional presentations using Numbers that will give me the information 
>>> I need about my budget, or my upcoming internship schedule, and that kind 
>>> of thing, but I want to have it be in a way that is accessible when using 
>>> VoiceOver, obviously.  Right now I'm trying to create the attendance 
>>> tracker with information modeled off the office.com website using Excel 
>>> 2003.  I want to learn how to do these various things because Numbers/Excel 
>>> has always been a weak area of mine.  How, for example, do you rename a 
>>> table?
>>> 
>>> I would appreciate any thoughts from a confident Numbers user.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Harry
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: Braille Support Broken in Mountain Lion!

[Steve Holmes]

As a final update, I got the RB 18 to pair this morning.  I'm not sure
all the cause of problem but I normally have it paired to my iPod and
I decided to turn off the iPod completely and was able to pair to the
Mac and I wasn't even prompted for a pairing code but it was working
fine before I headed out the door to work.

Anyway,  Refreshabraille seems to be OK with bluetooth on the Mac
after all; sorry for any false alarms.

On 7/27/12, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> I'm doing a clean install  am getting Mountain Lion free of charge. Just
> can't wait to get home to start the process as I'm sitting here at work how
> frustrating!
>
> On 27 Jul 2012, at 11:25 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>
>> You could make it that way with an 8gb USB stick and some time. I'm
>> assuming the process is accessible.
>>
>> On 7/27/12, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> Hi All.
>>>
>>> I've decided to bite the bullet and upgrade to Mountain Lion this
>>> weekend
>>> and am going to see what happens when I connect my Euro Braille via blue
>>> Tooth. If it is broken, I'll let you all know.
>>>
>>> I wish Mountain Lion was available on a memory stick as I bought Lion on
>>> a
>>> stick from the Apple Store. Alas!
>>>
>>> Kawal.
>>>
>>> On 26 Jul 2012, at 02:01 PM, Steve Holmes 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 OK, I just hooked up my Refreshabraille via the USB cable and that
 seems
 to be working.  So I have issues pairing the bluetooth side of things
 with
 this braille display.  Makes me wonder if other bluetooth displays are
 experiencing any similar problems.

 On Jul 26, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Steve Holmes 
 wrote:

> I'll get out my USB cable for the Refreshabraille to see if that makes
> any difference.  I just know the bluetooth seems broken here.  I also
> plan to call Apple today on it to see if any issue can be raised or if
> the pairing procedure might have changed some how.  It just disturbed
> me
> greatly when I heard stuff about being unable to load or find a driver
> for the device.
>
> On Jul 25, 2012, at 11:34 PM, Johanna Herranen
>  wrote:
>
>> Hi folks,
>> I'm successfully using Baum VarioConnect 32 here with Mountain Lion.
>> It's connected via USB, but I could try Bluetooth too - out of
>> curiosity. Speaking of Braille suppor though, I wish one day they
>> would
>> fix all the issues with International braille tables.
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2012, at 7:16 AM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> OK, but wait a minute.
>>>
>>> Can we be absolutely sure it's indeed braille display support in a
>>> whole that is messed up?  Sounds like you're using a bluetooth
>>> display.
>>> Could it be that the issue only lies with BT displays, and not with
>>> regular connected u s b's?
>>>
>>> I'll have my best friend tonight, if I get ahold of him try it with
>>> his
>>> PM 40 display.  It's not from the Omni, mind you, it's just the
>>> original display, but I know for a definite it worked in Lion, as he
>>> just left here from out of town about two days ago, and had the
>>> thing
>>> with him down here, and it was working great on LIon at that time,
>>> so
>>> who knows about M L though.  I hope it works, as if not, that'll be
>>> a
>>> deal breaker for him, seeing that he's an interpretor/translator.
>>>
>>> Chris.
>>>
>>> - Original Message - From: "Steve Holmes"
>>> 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:06 AM
>>> Subject: Braille Support Broken in Mountain Lion!
>>>
>>>
>>> I just tried to use my RefreshaBraille 18 display this evening and
>>> it
>>> doesn't work here anymore.  First off, I had previously defined it
>>> under Lion and successfully used it several times.  Tonight after
>>> the
>>> ML install, it would never connect.  So then I removed the device
>>> from
>>> the bluetooth list in the Braille device section of VO.  Then when I
>>> tried to pair it back up, I kept getting an error that VO couldn't
>>> load
>>> a device driver for this device.  Has anyone else had success
>>> getting
>>> any braille displays to work under Mountain Lion?
>>>
>>> I will probably give Apple a call about this.  I sure hope they
>>> didn't
>>> break support like they did with the Hims devices on IOS.  BTW, I
>>> never
>>> got prompted to enter any pairing codes and I usually do when
>>> hooking
>>> up the Refreshabraille display.
>>>
>>> Any ideas here?
>>>
>>> --
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Daniel's Questions about Mountain Lion

[Daniel McGee]

Hi all, I have a question or two that I would like to know about early ML 
users. 

1. I have heard that one can now more easly select tex in Safari. What I would 
like to know is how do you do this and what are the difference between Lion and 
Mountain Lion. If this is the case then this will be indeed worth the upgrade 
for me because I could use this for my college course come September.

2. I have heard that in Lion the status bar that one can get to either by VO MM 
or Vo F8 has now been named to something else. What is this new name and is 
there an easy reason to understand why the name has changed. Also relating to 
this, I now hear that we can now access the part of Dropbox where we know "All 
files are up to date" this is fabulous! The thing I don't understand is what is 
this part where now Voiceover can see it called and how did it become 
accessible? 

I look forward to hearing my answers to these questions from all you great guys!

Daniel  

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RE: Daniel's Questions about Mountain Lion

[Daniel Miller]

Hi,

Yes, you can select text in safari. You do it the normal way you select text
in any other app.
Also, yes, that part has been renamed menu extras. It's part of the status
menu that was in lion, which is accessed with VO+M twice.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel McGee
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:59 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Daniel's Questions about Mountain Lion

Hi all, I have a question or two that I would like to know about early ML
users. 

1. I have heard that one can now more easly select tex in Safari. What I
would like to know is how do you do this and what are the difference between
Lion and Mountain Lion. If this is the case then this will be indeed worth
the upgrade for me because I could use this for my college course come
September.

2. I have heard that in Lion the status bar that one can get to either by VO
MM or Vo F8 has now been named to something else. What is this new name and
is there an easy reason to understand why the name has changed. Also
relating to this, I now hear that we can now access the part of Dropbox
where we know "All files are up to date" this is fabulous! The thing I don't
understand is what is this part where now Voiceover can see it called and
how did it become accessible? 

I look forward to hearing my answers to these questions from all you great
guys!

Daniel  

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Re: Braille Support Broken in Mountain Lion!

[Alex Hall]

Did you have it displaying for the iPod every time you tried it with
the mac? If so, that was the problem; once iOS or OSX gets a display,
that display will not be allowed to work with any other device until
the first device "lets go". That's my (limited) experience anyway.

On 7/27/12, Steve Holmes  wrote:
> As a final update, I got the RB 18 to pair this morning.  I'm not sure
> all the cause of problem but I normally have it paired to my iPod and
> I decided to turn off the iPod completely and was able to pair to the
> Mac and I wasn't even prompted for a pairing code but it was working
> fine before I headed out the door to work.
>
> Anyway,  Refreshabraille seems to be OK with bluetooth on the Mac
> after all; sorry for any false alarms.
>
> On 7/27/12, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> I'm doing a clean install  am getting Mountain Lion free of charge. Just
>> can't wait to get home to start the process as I'm sitting here at work
>> how
>> frustrating!
>>
>> On 27 Jul 2012, at 11:25 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>
>>> You could make it that way with an 8gb USB stick and some time. I'm
>>> assuming the process is accessible.
>>>
>>> On 7/27/12, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
 Hi All.

 I've decided to bite the bullet and upgrade to Mountain Lion this
 weekend
 and am going to see what happens when I connect my Euro Braille via
 blue
 Tooth. If it is broken, I'll let you all know.

 I wish Mountain Lion was available on a memory stick as I bought Lion
 on
 a
 stick from the Apple Store. Alas!

 Kawal.

 On 26 Jul 2012, at 02:01 PM, Steve Holmes 
 wrote:

> OK, I just hooked up my Refreshabraille via the USB cable and that
> seems
> to be working.  So I have issues pairing the bluetooth side of things
> with
> this braille display.  Makes me wonder if other bluetooth displays are
> experiencing any similar problems.
>
> On Jul 26, 2012, at 5:10 AM, Steve Holmes 
> wrote:
>
>> I'll get out my USB cable for the Refreshabraille to see if that
>> makes
>> any difference.  I just know the bluetooth seems broken here.  I also
>> plan to call Apple today on it to see if any issue can be raised or
>> if
>> the pairing procedure might have changed some how.  It just disturbed
>> me
>> greatly when I heard stuff about being unable to load or find a
>> driver
>> for the device.
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2012, at 11:34 PM, Johanna Herranen
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>> I'm successfully using Baum VarioConnect 32 here with Mountain Lion.
>>> It's connected via USB, but I could try Bluetooth too - out of
>>> curiosity. Speaking of Braille suppor though, I wish one day they
>>> would
>>> fix all the issues with International braille tables.
>>>
>>> On Jul 26, 2012, at 7:16 AM, "Christopher-Mark Gilland"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
 OK, but wait a minute.

 Can we be absolutely sure it's indeed braille display support in a
 whole that is messed up?  Sounds like you're using a bluetooth
 display.
 Could it be that the issue only lies with BT displays, and not with
 regular connected u s b's?

 I'll have my best friend tonight, if I get ahold of him try it with
 his
 PM 40 display.  It's not from the Omni, mind you, it's just the
 original display, but I know for a definite it worked in Lion, as
 he
 just left here from out of town about two days ago, and had the
 thing
 with him down here, and it was working great on LIon at that time,
 so
 who knows about M L though.  I hope it works, as if not, that'll be
 a
 deal breaker for him, seeing that he's an interpretor/translator.

 Chris.

 - Original Message - From: "Steve Holmes"
 
 To: 
 Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:06 AM
 Subject: Braille Support Broken in Mountain Lion!


 I just tried to use my RefreshaBraille 18 display this evening and
 it
 doesn't work here anymore.  First off, I had previously defined it
 under Lion and successfully used it several times.  Tonight after
 the
 ML install, it would never connect.  So then I removed the device
 from
 the bluetooth list in the Braille device section of VO.  Then when
 I
 tried to pair it back up, I kept getting an error that VO couldn't
 load
 a device driver for this device.  Has anyone else had success
 getting
 any braille displays to work under Mountain Lion?

 I will probably give Apple a call about this.  I sure hope they
 didn't
 break support like they did with the Hims devices on IOS.  BTW, I
 never
 got prompted to enter any pairing codes

Re: first possible bug in ML

[Donna Goodin]

Hi Shen,

When I'm logging in, no key presses work, not Command F5, and not the volume 
keys.

The other thing that's weird is when I get logged in, VO first says "Dictation 
IM has no windows".  I squirm around until I get out of that, and then end up 
in another window that says something like "System Core UI has no Windows."  
More squirming till I eventually get out of that.  It's all very odd.  And if I 
set login prefs to log in automatically, I have no issues, i.e. the Dictation 
And Core UI windows don't appear at all.
Cheers,
Donna
On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:13 PM, Shen  wrote:

> Hi Donna,
> Not sure why this is happening to you. Then again, I have strange
> things happen to my VoiceOver as well that I'm sure no one has
> experienced.
> Please do let me know what happens if you decide to call Apple
> Accessibility or bring your machine into the Genius Bar.
> Just out of curiosity, have you tried pressing Command-F5 at the login
> screen to see if VoiceOver starts or not?
> Let's say, that VoiceOver is running, but just isn't speaking. If you
> press Command-F5, that will then turn it off. Assuming nothing else is
> wrong, if you press Command-F5 again, it should come back on and you
> should hear speech.
> I know this is a pain in the butt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 7/27/12, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> Hi Matthew,
>> 
>> Well, glad I'm not the only one experiencing this.  I wrote to Apple
>> Accessibility also, so I'll let you know if I hear anything.
>> Best,
>> Donna
>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Matthew Campbell 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Donna.
>>> I to am seeing this. In my case, it seems to work every so often. I guess
>>> it needs to be in the right mood to work properly. *Smile*.
>>> I'm going to send a message to apple accessibility about this one and I'll
>>> report back on any feedback I get.
>>> 
>>> On 2012-07-27, at 9:28 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
 Hi,
 
 I've waited a good couple of minutes.  Also, when I interact and enter my
 password, I am able to log in.  And I have done what you suggested.
 Still not getting VO at login.
 Thanks,
 Donna
 On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:24 AM, Shen  wrote:
 
> How long are you waiting before realizing VoiceOver is not coming on? Is
> it possible the system is still booting up?
> Also, just for giggles, unchecked the checkbox for starting VoiceOver at
> the login screen. Close the Preferences, open it again and check the box
> again.
> I would do a complete shut down, then startup.
> Hope that will help.
> 
> 
> On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:48 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
>> Yes it is checked.  I've now set my Mac to log in automatically, but I
>> hope that isn't the only long-term solution.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> On Jul 25, 2012, at 5:05 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> Are you sure that you have voiceover in your login items system prefs
>>> paine under users set to read at the log on screen?  What if you hit
>>> command+F5 to turn it on manually?
>>> 
>>> If that doesn't work, try fn+Command+F5, provided you have an fn key.
>>> 
>>> Chris.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - From: "Donna Goodin" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 4:33 PM
>>> Subject: first possible bug in ML
>>> 
>>> 
 Hi all,
 
 Well, I think I've found my first bug with ML.  I no longer have
 speech during the log-in process.  To test this, shut down your Mac
 and reboot. You can still log in, but you will have no speech while
 you are doing it. Can anyone confirm?
 Thanks,
 Donna
 
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Re: notification center

[Ray Foret Jr]

But you see, that is it. My back is constantly on, and constantly awake.
Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!

Skype name:
barefootedray

On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:35 PM, "Daniel Miller"  wrote:

> Um…that’s kind of the point, your mac needs to be awake. Lol.
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:34 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: notification center
>  
> Well, with me, what happens is that notifications are not given to me unless 
> I start up my Mac. I don't know why this is, but it is. Also, another thing 
> is that all throughout the day when I have my MacBook Pro Walton, 
> notifications are simply not put in the notification Center. Couldn't 
> possibly be something that I'm doing wrong or have set wrong? Thanks.
>  
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>  
> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>  
> Skype name:
> barefootedray
>  
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:55 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hmm, I tried that.  Weird.  Thanks, though. :)
> Donna
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Daniel Miller  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Yes, when you go into notification center, there's a table. Interact with
> that table, and there are your notifications.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:53 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: notification center
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Is anyone actually able to read notifications in the notification center?
> So far I have not been able to do that. IF so, how are you doing it?
> Best,
> Donna
> 
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> 
> 
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f11 and f12 as volume keys on Mac Mini?

[Alex Hall]

Hi all,
On macbooks, f11 and f12 control the volume.  However, on my 
mini, I can't get that to happen.  I looked in keyboard 
preferences, but could not find anything about volume to which I 
could assign those two keys.  Is there any way of doing this? I'd 
also like to get the finer control of using cmd (or maybe its 
option) with those keys, but that's secondary.  I should also say 
that I am using a $10 USB keyboard, not an Apple keyboard.  
Thanks.


Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from BrailleNote
mehg...@gmail.com

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RE: f11 and f12 as volume keys on Mac Mini?

[Daniel Miller]

Try using FN with those keys.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hall
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 1:25 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: f11 and f12 as volume keys on Mac Mini?

Hi all,
On macbooks, f11 and f12 control the volume.  However, on my mini, I can't
get that to happen.  I looked in keyboard preferences, but could not find
anything about volume to which I could assign those two keys.  Is there any
way of doing this? I'd also like to get the finer control of using cmd (or
maybe its
option) with those keys, but that's secondary.  I should also say that I am
using a $10 USB keyboard, not an Apple keyboard.  
Thanks.

Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from BrailleNote
mehg...@gmail.com

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RE: notification center

[Daniel Miller]

You do know that messages, mail, twitter, safari, appstore, and facebook in
the fall are the only apps that can give you notifications, right?

 

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 1:24 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: notification center

 

But you see, that is it. My back is constantly on, and constantly awake.

Sincerely,

The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

 

Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!

 

Skype name:

barefootedray

 

On Jul 27, 2012, at 12:35 PM, "Daniel Miller"  wrote:





Um.that's kind of the point, your mac needs to be awake. Lol.

 

From:  
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@
 googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Foret Jr
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:34 PM
To:  
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: notification center

 

Well, with me, what happens is that notifications are not given to me unless
I start up my Mac. I don't know why this is, but it is. Also, another thing
is that all throughout the day when I have my MacBook Pro Walton,
notifications are simply not put in the notification Center. Couldn't
possibly be something that I'm doing wrong or have set wrong? Thanks.

 

Sincerely,

The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!

 

Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!

 

Skype name:

barefootedray

 

On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:55 AM, Donna Goodin < 
doniado...@me.com> wrote:






Hmm, I tried that.  Weird.  Thanks, though. :)
Donna
On Jul 27, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Daniel Miller < 
miller...@gmail.com> wrote:





Hi,

Yes, when you go into notification center, there's a table. Interact with
that table, and there are your notifications.


-Original Message-
From:  
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@  googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 11:53 AM
To:  
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: notification center

Hi all,

Is anyone actually able to read notifications in the notification center?
So far I have not been able to do that. IF so, how are you doing it?
Best,
Donna

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Opening Downloads in Mountain Lion With Safari?

[Teresa Cochran]

Hi, all,

In previous versions of OS X, there was a little icon for opening files from 
the Safari popup. Now I don't see it. I've been opening files from the finder, 
but is there a more elegant way to do this?

Thanks,
Teresa

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twitter

[craig J Dunlop]

I am loving the dictation capability! Where do I find the built in Twitter on 
mountain lion?

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RE: Opening Downloads in Mountain Lion With Safari?

[Daniel Miller]

VO+space on the actual group that you interact with.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Cochran
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 1:34 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Opening Downloads in Mountain Lion With Safari?

Hi, all,

In previous versions of OS X, there was a little icon for opening files from
the Safari popup. Now I don't see it. I've been opening files from the
finder, but is there a more elegant way to do this?

Thanks,
Teresa

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Re: Help calling apple please

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Could your cell phone carrier help?  Though their support is usually fairly 
limited, I've found most carriers at least know a teeny little bit.  Of 
corse, seeing you were not specific about the Facetime issue you're having 
more so than to just say, I'm having an issue... it makes it a bit hard for 
me to really know.  It sounds to me like your issue is the least of your 
concerns in your opinion though.  I mean yeah, you want it fixed, sure, but 
it's definitely not high priority, so, yeah, that's why I suggest maybe 
calling your carrier directly, and see what, if anything, they may know. 
Hey, you got nothing to lose.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Kirsten Edmondson" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Help calling apple please


Thank you for the phone numbers everybody. I won't use my AppleCare, as I 
think that is just for my Mac. I will try the UK number and ask if they will 
help me, they either we'll all won't, it won't hurt to ask. If the worst 
comes to worst, I will find my local Apple shop and go in there.


Sent from my iPhone

On 27 Jul 2012, at 17:31, "Christopher-Mark Gilland"  
wrote:



For one thing,

your Apple care may, or might not cover your IPhone, as you have to 
register both products for APL Care seperetly.  Just beware. - One 
warranty doesn't cover both.


Chris.

- Original Message - From: "chris hallsworth" 


To: 
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: Help calling apple please



Try this.
0844 209 0611*.
- Original Message - From: "Kirsten Edmondson" 

To: "Viphone Group" ; 


Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 12:17 AM
Subject: Help calling apple please


Hi all,
Is anyone able to tell me how I go about calling Apple? I'm in the UK. I 
need to report a problem with my face time, it isn't working properly. 
And the only way I can think of resolving it is to call them and ask 
them. I think I do have AppleCare, but I have no idea how it works, as I 
never used it, and cannot read the information. The AppleCare too is for 
my Mac, and the problem I am having with face time is actually on my 
iPhone, is it still valid?


Really, I would like a phone number in the UK to call, where they might 
help me.


I know I can email the accessibility,but I would like to speak to a 
person. Does anyone have any ideas or know where I could go to find a 
suitable phone number?


Thanks
Kirsten


Sent from my iPhone

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VoiceOver Reporting One Conversation Items

[M. Taylor]

Hello Everyone,

There has been so many messages lately that I cannot keep them all strait.  

Here is a bug I have submitted to Apple.  

If you have either encountered it or have discovered a workaround, please
let us know and report it to Apple, OK?

Thank you,

Mark

VoiceOver Intermittently Not Reading Correct Number of Messages in a Email
Thread 

1.
Set Mail to Standard View

2.
>From the View Menu, Collapse all conversations.  

3.
Set VOiceOver Speech Verbosity to High.

4.
Interact with Messages Column Group.

5.
Interact With Messages Table.

6.
Use Up and Down arrow keys to browse the list of messages.  Instead of
VoiceOver reporting the number of messages, for some items, it says, "1
Message Conversation Collapsed Disclosure Triangle.

7.
Jump to the Message Contents Table and use the arrow keys to switch between
each message in the thread.  Instead of VoiceOver reporting the number of
the message in the thread such as 2 of 25, it now says, for each message,
"All Mail."  

Please note that this only occurs for some items in the Messages Table, not
all.  




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Re: in Pages

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Harry,

Yes, it's me along with my husband, who offers Pages training via Skype. We do 
it together since he is fully sighted and can share the student's screen to see 
that everything is working correctly.

Cheers,

Anne


On 27 Jul 2012, at 19:02, Harry Hogue wrote:

> Anne, was it you who offers Pages training via Skype, or was that someone 
> else?  I remember this was mentioned, and it would be worth it to me to take 
> advantage of that training.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Harry

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Re: f11 and f12 as volume keys on Mac Mini?

[Mark BurningHawk Baxter]

Either that or change your keyboard settings (in system prefs) to use F1, F2, 
etc. as standard keys, and use FN whatever for the special software functions.  
This is what I do, although I find that, when the new kitty goes to sleep, the 
keyboard often changes back to non-standard function use, which is a minor 
annoyance.  To be fair, though, the old snowy kitty did the same thing whenever 
it went to sleep…


 • Mark BurningHawk Baxter
 • AIM, Skype and Twitter:  BurningHawk1969
 • MSN:  burninghawk1...@hotmail.com
 • My home page:
 • http://MarkBurningHawk.net/

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