Re: numbers

[Jürgen Fleger]

Hello Rafael,

thanks for your hints. So far Tables works fine.

But what I meant was how to edit a cell and change inserted content. That 
doesn't work here for me. 

As far as I could find out I have to enter the edit mode of a chosen cell by 
pressing F2. VO anounces "edit". But then it's not possible to read or delete 
single characters or to navigate through the content of a cell just by using 
the arrow keys. Of course I can navigate by using VO + arrow keys but. I should 
say that I use a sheet like a two dimensional notepad. I don't use it as a 
calculator and so I don't need formulas in a cell. But to take notes and so I 
enter a lot of text in it. So it's quite important for me to delete parts of 
the text and enter new content.

So: How do you delete parts of text in a cell and how to enter just one word in 
a text of a cell? Deleting a whole cell is easily possible.

Thanks and all the best
Jürgen


Am 22.02.2012 um 05:45 schrieb Bejarano, Rafael P.:

> If you are using an Intel-based Mac, then the first thing to do when you open 
> the Tables application is to get the cursor out of the table.  Press Shift, 
> Control, Option, up-arrow together, in order to get out of the table where 
> the cursor is pointing.  Press this key combination again to get out of the 
> spreadsheet.  Do these things first, or the following instructions won't make 
> sense.
> 
> Basically, there are two ways to read a cell's contents in Tables.  The first 
> way is to place the cursor over the field in which one enters numbers, 
> formulae, and so on.  If you choose this option, make sure VO is not locked, 
> so that you can use the arrow keys to move from cell to cell (i.e., left 
> arrow to move to the left, bottom arrow to move down, etc.).  This is a 
> simple option that allows you to navigate from cell to cell, to read each 
> cell's contents, and to enter data into individual cells, all from the 
> data-entry field.  
> 
> The second way to move around in Tables is somewhat more complicated.  To 
> make things easier, first lock VO (by pressing control-option-semicolon).  
> Next, enter the spreadsheet, by pressing shift and the down-arrow key 
> together.  At this level, you will be able to move the VO cursor with the 
> arrow keys and read the letters designating the columns (i.e., Column A, 
> Column B, etc.), as well as the row numbers (i.e., Row 1, Row 2, etc.).  To 
> access the individual cells, navigate to the table (VO says "table when 
> you've found it).  With VO still locked, press the shift and down-arrow keys 
> together again.  That will put you in the table of cells, from which point 
> onward you can just use the arrow keys to navigate from cell to cell.
> 
> I hope this helps.  Let me know if you have any other questions, and I'll do 
> my best to try to answer them.
> 
> Cordially,
> Rafael
> 
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On 
> Behalf Of Jürgen Fleger [apple-engl...@fleger.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 3:52 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: numbers
> 
> Hi Rafael,
> 
> I tried Tables and it's much faster to work with then with Numbers. But what 
> I didn't understand was how to read text in a cell. I pressed F2 to edit the 
> cell and couldn't have VO to read text by pressing arrow keys. Did I 
> something wrong or does Tables not support VO that much?
> 
> All the best Jürgen
> Am 20.02.2012 um 18:24 schrieb Bejarano, Rafael P.:
> 
>> If your spreadsheet needs are not very complicated, you might wish to 
>> consider Tables.  It's the spreadsheet app that I use on the Mac, and I 
>> really like it.  It has all the usual functions, and you can enter your own 
>> formulae, as well.  You can save your work as xl files, too.  Creating 
>> graphs is somewhat limited, however.
>> 
>> Rafael Bejarano
>> On Feb 20, 2012, at 10:16 AM, May McDonald wrote:
>> 
>> Good day everyone.
>> 
>> Well, I guess I can't avoid it any longer. Drn school stuff. Is there a 
>> place where I could find tutorials on how to use numbers? Or can anyone 
>> recommend a good program that handles excel files if numbers is not the best 
>> to use?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> May and Prince Noah
>> cell: 613-863-5845 or 1-888-778-2544
>> email: mcdonald@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
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Re: Keyboard shortcuts

[Jürgen Fleger]

Hello Esther,

thanks to you. You encouraged me to try it again and again. And so I found out 
a funny thing:

When I copy the last spoken phrase of VO to the clipboard by pressing VO + c 
the following apears after pasting:
Normalisieren  …
This is the german word for normalize. There's the command then two empty 
spaces and the the elipsis sign. That doesn't work in the preferences of 
keaboard short cuts.
Then I tried 
Normalisieren…
That's what you used in your example, also no success.
Then I tried
Normalisieren …
just with one empty space and that worked. Isn't it strange?

But anyway: I'm happy now to have the way free to define short cuts for all 
commands in a menue. :-)

All the best
Jürgen

Am 21.02.2012 um 23:12 schrieb Esther:

> Hello Jürgen,
> 
> Make sure that the keyboard shortcut you are assigning does not conflict with 
> an existing shortcut definition that applies either to that application or 
> system wide on your Mac.  One of the reason that I use so many modifier keys 
> in the example shortcut, is that you quickly run out of unique combinations.  
> That's also why I make new shortcut definitions sparingly, and delete the 
> ones that I set up as test cases.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, which command did you want to create a shortcut for?  
> I'm working with a new installation under Lion, and don't have apps like 
> Amadeus Pro loaded yet (this is a MacBook Air with less disk space than I had 
> previously), so I can't run tests to answer questions while I'm still getting 
> my system configured and transitioned to Lion.  
> 
> HTH.  Cheers,
> 
> Esther
> 
> On Feb 21, 2012, at 12:01 PM, Jürgen Fleger wrote:
> 
>> Hello Esther,
>> 
>> thanks for your efforts. But still strange: I did it point by point as you 
>> did and it doesn't work for me and Amadeus Pro. I can add a new created 
>> short cut in system preferences and it doesn't apear in the menue of Amadeus 
>> Pro and of course it doesn't work as well. 
>> 
>> I'm not sure why it doesn't work but will investigate that issue. But now I 
>> know at least it works at all.
>> 
>> Thanks again for your help and
>> all the best
>> Jürgen
>> Am 21.02.2012 um 21:40 schrieb Esther:
>> 
>>> Hello Jürgen,
>>> 
>>> To create keyboard shortcuts of those menu options which end with an 
>>> ellipsis, in Snow Leopard and Lion you navigate to System  Preferences > 
>>> Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts (tab 2 of 2) and select the option from a 
>>> table.  
>>> 
>>> 1. If the menu command is for a specific application, navigate to the 
>>> "Shortcuts categories" table and interact, then select "Application 
>>> Shortcuts".  
>>> 2. Stop interacting and navigate to the "Add an application shortcut" 
>>> button and press (VO-Space).  
>>> 3. In the dialog window, change the pop up menu button for the application 
>>> from "All Applications" to the one that you want (e.g., VO-Space and use 
>>> arrow keys and/or type the first letters of the name, like "i t" for 
>>> iTunes), and press return.  
>>> 4. Then type in the name of the command you want in the text box for "Menu 
>>> Title:".  For example, I created a shortcut for the "Page Setup…" option in 
>>> the File menu of iTunes this way.  (It's something that I'd never want to 
>>> use, and I'm going to get rid of it right away, but it shows this method 
>>> works).  I typed in "Page Setup…" using the Option+semi-colon shortcut to 
>>> type the ellipsis at the end of "Setup".  
>>> 5. Then I typed in a keyboard shortcut, Shift-Control-Option-Command-P, and 
>>> pressed the "Add" button.
>>> 6. I closed the Keyboard  window with Command-W.  
>>> 
>>> Sure enough, if I'm in the iTunes app, pressing this combination brings up 
>>> the Page Setup window.  However, I immediately went back to the page to 
>>> delete this shortcut, since I'm never going to use it and just tried this 
>>> out to make sure I could assign a shortcut this way.  If the menu option 
>>> only appears for a specific application, then you have to select that 
>>> application before trying to assign the shortcut.  I believe there are 
>>> "Page Setup…" menu options for other applications, but you'll have to set 
>>> up your shortcut again for those applications. 
>>> 
>>> HTH.  Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Esther
>>> 
>>> On Feb 21, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Jürgen Fleger wrote:
>>> 
 Hallo Esther,
 
 Am 13.02.2012 um 16:19 schrieb Esther:
 
> The ellipsis character is typed using a keyboard shortcut with the Option 
> key.  On a US or other English language input keyboard, this combination 
> can be typed by pressing Option+semi-colon.  Assuming that you are using 
> a German input language keyboard, this combination can be typed by 
> pressing Option+period. 
> 
 Thanks for this. 
 
> However, a more general way to get the exact menu command you need for a 
> keyboard shortcut is to use VO-Shift-C, which is the VoiceOver shortcut 
> to copy the last spoken phrase to the clipboard.  Then

Re: VO with Zooms

[Garth Humphreys]

Hi 

Can I ask how much do you zoom in. I mean do go right up to 20 times. I find 
that I have a problem with navigating the menu bar with the arrow keys if my 
Zoom is anything above about 12-15 times. 

Garth 
@BlindTechMusing


On 22/02/2012, at 12:18 PM, Louie P. (Pete) Nalda wrote:

> Hi,
> I do this all the time.  Here's what I have mine set.  in Zoom:  Zoom follows 
> keyboard focus.  Zoom moves continuously with keyboard focus.  In voicover I 
> have:  keyboard follows Voicover cursor, Vo Cursor follows keyboard, and 
> insertion point follows VO cursor, and VO ignores mouse cursor.  
> Unfortunately I can't get skype to work.  Email me for a phone number if 
> needed.
> 
> On Feb 21, 2012, at 4:54 AM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote:
> 
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> I have a friend who is running SL on a MAcBook Air, he is trying to use both 
>> Voice Over and Zooms at the same time, primarily using Zooms, with Voice 
>> Over for support.
>> 
>> We are having trouble configuring Voice Over so that it does not impact 
>> Zooms functionality and performance… but, appear to be failing, is there 
>> anyone on list who has experience in using Zooms principally with Voice Over 
>> as a reading aid along side Zooms?
>> 
>> if so, would you kindly either give me some pointers, or, better still, can 
>> we make contact using Skype or other?
>> 
>> thanks.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Neil Barnfather
>> 
>> Talks List Administrator
>> Twitter @neilbarnfather
>> 
>> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple 
>> iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your
>> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
>> 
>> URL: - www.talknav.com
>> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com
>> Phone: - +44  844 999 4199
>> 
>> On 17 Feb 2012, at 04:31, Eugenia Firth wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi guys.
>>> Maybe somebody covered this already, and so maybe I missed something 
>>> somewhere. I watched the video on the Apple website concerning Mountain 
>>> Lion. Since VoiceOver is so far not mentioned in these things ever, how do 
>>> we know what's changed for it? It looks like that the Notification Center 
>>> is going to be wonderful for us, especially if it works like it does on the 
>>> iPhone. 
>>> When I first got my Mac and knew practically nothing, I asked 
>>> accessibil...@apple.com how I was going to know about VoiceOver changes. 
>>> The answer I got back was that I could read articles on it and that they 
>>> would be published with everything else. I am not finding this to be the 
>>> case. So, how do we find out or do we just wait and see? 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Gigi
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> 
>> 
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> 
> Egun On, Lagunak! (Basque for G'day, Mates)
> Louie P. "Pete" Nalda
> http://www.myspace.com/musikonalda
> http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
> Twitter @lpnalda
> 
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Re: VO with Zooms

[Neil Barnfather - TalkNav]

Hi,

no, the zoom level is set to 8 times, and no larger.

the issue is that Voice Over appears to be doing an awful lot of repeating, so 
it starts to speak, stops, and then starts again.

another issue is in Mail, we have the preview pain at the bottom of the message 
table, when one message is highlighted in the message table, its content 
appears at the bottom in the preview pain, as is expected. but, as one then 
moves the mouse pointer down to the preview pain, to magnify this area and also 
have VO read the message, each e-mail in the list of messages, in the table 
become highlighted as the mouse pointer moves down.

This is not the visible Voice Over cursor, as that has been turned off.

any ideas?


Regards,

Neil Barnfather

Talks List Administrator
Twitter @neilbarnfather

TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your
accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com

URL: - www.talknav.com
e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com
Phone: - +44  844 999 4199



On 22 Feb 2012, at 08:40, Garth Humphreys wrote:

Hi 

Can I ask how much do you zoom in. I mean do go right up to 20 times. I find 
that I have a problem with navigating the menu bar with the arrow keys if my 
Zoom is anything above about 12-15 times. 

Garth 
@BlindTechMusing


On 22/02/2012, at 12:18 PM, Louie P. (Pete) Nalda wrote:

> Hi,
> I do this all the time.  Here's what I have mine set.  in Zoom:  Zoom follows 
> keyboard focus.  Zoom moves continuously with keyboard focus.  In voicover I 
> have:  keyboard follows Voicover cursor, Vo Cursor follows keyboard, and 
> insertion point follows VO cursor, and VO ignores mouse cursor.  
> Unfortunately I can't get skype to work.  Email me for a phone number if 
> needed.
> 
> On Feb 21, 2012, at 4:54 AM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote:
> 
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> I have a friend who is running SL on a MAcBook Air, he is trying to use both 
>> Voice Over and Zooms at the same time, primarily using Zooms, with Voice 
>> Over for support.
>> 
>> We are having trouble configuring Voice Over so that it does not impact 
>> Zooms functionality and performance… but, appear to be failing, is there 
>> anyone on list who has experience in using Zooms principally with Voice Over 
>> as a reading aid along side Zooms?
>> 
>> if so, would you kindly either give me some pointers, or, better still, can 
>> we make contact using Skype or other?
>> 
>> thanks.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Neil Barnfather
>> 
>> Talks List Administrator
>> Twitter @neilbarnfather
>> 
>> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple 
>> iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your
>> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
>> 
>> URL: - www.talknav.com
>> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com
>> Phone: - +44  844 999 4199
>> 
>> On 17 Feb 2012, at 04:31, Eugenia Firth wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi guys.
>>> Maybe somebody covered this already, and so maybe I missed something 
>>> somewhere. I watched the video on the Apple website concerning Mountain 
>>> Lion. Since VoiceOver is so far not mentioned in these things ever, how do 
>>> we know what's changed for it? It looks like that the Notification Center 
>>> is going to be wonderful for us, especially if it works like it does on the 
>>> iPhone. 
>>> When I first got my Mac and knew practically nothing, I asked 
>>> accessibil...@apple.com how I was going to know about VoiceOver changes. 
>>> The answer I got back was that I could read articles on it and that they 
>>> would be published with everything else. I am not finding this to be the 
>>> case. So, how do we find out or do we just wait and see? 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Gigi
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at 
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
>>> 
>> 
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>> 
> 
> Egun On, Lagunak! (Basque for G'day, Mates)
> Louie P. "Pete" Nalda
> http://www.myspace.com/musikonalda
> http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
> Twitter @lpnalda
> 
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Re: Question about a monitor on my mac mini

[matthew Dyer]

Hi Chris,

With some sited help I was able to determened that once the monitor comes on it 
goes rite to sleep.  I did check and it is set at 60 hurts so will have to 
figure out how to switch to analog vga.  Will see what happens.

Matthew


On Feb 21, 2012, at 11:34 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:

> Most monitors, unless they are ancient, should be able to handle 1024x768 but 
> not all frequencies. Depending on what flavor or OSX you have there should 
> either be refreshrates listed with the resolutions (1024x768 60Hz for 
> example) or as a separate Refresh Rate popup. I think when I've had my laptop 
> connected to a projector there were rates listed up to 120Hz but most should 
> handle 60Hz just fine. Also some monitors take both VGA and DVI inputs and 
> you might have to play with some on screen controls to tell the monitor to 
> use the analog VGA instead of DVI.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> CB
> 
> On 2/21/12 10:18 AM, matthew Dyer wrote:
>> I have a 15 inch monitor comnnected with the vga addapter that I've had.  It 
>> is set at 1020-768.  Should I try a lower reselosion to see if that helps.
>> 
>> Matthew
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 21, 2012, at 12:09 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:
>> 
>>> How is your mini connected to the screen? Maybe the resolution/frequency 
>>> selected is not supported on that display so the display can't sync and 
>>> gives up.
>>> 
>>> CB
>>> 
>>> On 2/20/12 9:38 AM, matthew Dyer wrote:
 Hi,
 
 The problem I am having is that the screen will not stay on.  I tried 
 detected displays and it is still off.  I will keep messaing around with 
 it and see what happens.
 
 Matthew
 
 
 On Feb 19, 2012, at 10:54 PM, Chris Blouch wrote:
 
> Hmmm. In System Preferences>   Displays at the very end of the dialog is 
> a button called Detect Displays. Try hitting that and maybe it will 
> notice your screen correctly.
> 
> CB
> 
> On 2/19/12 9:49 AM, matthew Dyer wrote:
>> I had it connected before I turned it on.
>> 
>> Matthew
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 18, 2012, at 11:49 PM, Chris Blouch wrote:
>> 
>>> Best thing is to have the monitor connected before the Mac is powered 
>>> on since the detect process seems to happen at bootup. I think it might 
>>> be a cold boot thing so you might need to fully shut down, not just do 
>>> a reboot.
>>> 
>>> CB
>>> 
>>> On 2/17/12 3:21 PM, matthew Dyer wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 I just connected a monitor to my mac mini and while my mac sees it 
 there is nothing showing on the screen.  I know it works as it was 
 tested.  Is there something I need to change in display settings?  
 Thanks.  Just wondering.
 
 Matthew
 
 
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Re: numbers

[Bejarano, Rafael P.]

Tables has a data entry field.  That is where data are entered into each cell.  
If you cannot find the data entry field on your own, you may benefit from 
sighted help to find it the first time.  Place your cursor in the field, making 
sure VO is not locked.  You can then type or paste in data and formulae.  If 
you type in the data entry field, press the return (enter) key to get the data 
into the cell.  The arrow keys are used to move between cells.

Rafael
On Feb 22, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Jürgen Fleger wrote:

> Hello Rafael,
> 
> thanks for your hints. So far Tables works fine.
> 
> But what I meant was how to edit a cell and change inserted content. That 
> doesn't work here for me. 
> 
> As far as I could find out I have to enter the edit mode of a chosen cell by 
> pressing F2. VO anounces "edit". But then it's not possible to read or delete 
> single characters or to navigate through the content of a cell just by using 
> the arrow keys. Of course I can navigate by using VO + arrow keys but. I 
> should say that I use a sheet like a two dimensional notepad. I don't use it 
> as a calculator and so I don't need formulas in a cell. But to take notes and 
> so I enter a lot of text in it. So it's quite important for me to delete 
> parts of the text and enter new content.
> 
> So: How do you delete parts of text in a cell and how to enter just one word 
> in a text of a cell? Deleting a whole cell is easily possible.
> 
> Thanks and all the best
> Jürgen
> 
> 
> Am 22.02.2012 um 05:45 schrieb Bejarano, Rafael P.:
> 
>> If you are using an Intel-based Mac, then the first thing to do when you 
>> open the Tables application is to get the cursor out of the table.  Press 
>> Shift, Control, Option, up-arrow together, in order to get out of the table 
>> where the cursor is pointing.  Press this key combination again to get out 
>> of the spreadsheet.  Do these things first, or the following instructions 
>> won't make sense.
>> 
>> Basically, there are two ways to read a cell's contents in Tables.  The 
>> first way is to place the cursor over the field in which one enters numbers, 
>> formulae, and so on.  If you choose this option, make sure VO is not locked, 
>> so that you can use the arrow keys to move from cell to cell (i.e., left 
>> arrow to move to the left, bottom arrow to move down, etc.).  This is a 
>> simple option that allows you to navigate from cell to cell, to read each 
>> cell's contents, and to enter data into individual cells, all from the 
>> data-entry field.  
>> 
>> The second way to move around in Tables is somewhat more complicated.  To 
>> make things easier, first lock VO (by pressing control-option-semicolon).  
>> Next, enter the spreadsheet, by pressing shift and the down-arrow key 
>> together.  At this level, you will be able to move the VO cursor with the 
>> arrow keys and read the letters designating the columns (i.e., Column A, 
>> Column B, etc.), as well as the row numbers (i.e., Row 1, Row 2, etc.).  To 
>> access the individual cells, navigate to the table (VO says "table when 
>> you've found it).  With VO still locked, press the shift and down-arrow keys 
>> together again.  That will put you in the table of cells, from which point 
>> onward you can just use the arrow keys to navigate from cell to cell.
>> 
>> I hope this helps.  Let me know if you have any other questions, and I'll do 
>> my best to try to answer them.
>> 
>> Cordially,
>> Rafael
>> 
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On 
>> Behalf Of Jürgen Fleger [apple-engl...@fleger.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 3:52 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: numbers
>> 
>> Hi Rafael,
>> 
>> I tried Tables and it's much faster to work with then with Numbers. But what 
>> I didn't understand was how to read text in a cell. I pressed F2 to edit the 
>> cell and couldn't have VO to read text by pressing arrow keys. Did I 
>> something wrong or does Tables not support VO that much?
>> 
>> All the best Jürgen
>> Am 20.02.2012 um 18:24 schrieb Bejarano, Rafael P.:
>> 
>>> If your spreadsheet needs are not very complicated, you might wish to 
>>> consider Tables.  It's the spreadsheet app that I use on the Mac, and I 
>>> really like it.  It has all the usual functions, and you can enter your own 
>>> formulae, as well.  You can save your work as xl files, too.  Creating 
>>> graphs is somewhat limited, however.
>>> 
>>> Rafael Bejarano
>>> On Feb 20, 2012, at 10:16 AM, May McDonald wrote:
>>> 
>>> Good day everyone.
>>> 
>>> Well, I guess I can't avoid it any longer. Drn school stuff. Is there a 
>>> place where I could find tutorials on how to use numbers? Or can anyone 
>>> recommend a good program that handles excel files if numbers is not the 
>>> best to use?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> May and Prince Noah
>>> cell: 613-863-5845 or 1-888-778-2544
>>> email: mcdonald@gmail.com

Re: Chromevox

[Chris Blouch]

Chromevox is Google's own screen reader that runs inside of Chrome. It 
uses the OSX speech engine but otherwise does everything itself. Some 
folks find they can navigate better with ChromeVox but it means learning 
keyboard controls for yet another screen reader. It also means you have 
to turn VO off when in Chrome with Chromevox running or you'll get 
everything double announced and have keyboard conflicts. If you decide 
you need to do something outside of Chrome, such as pull an URL from an 
email it gets pretty messy. You would need to turn VO back on, go into 
email to copy that URL, go back into Chrome, and turn VO back off again. 
This is the general pain of self-voicing apps on a system that already 
has a dandy screen reader. Maybe you can more easily navigate complex 
pages in Chrome with Chromevox but it's a lot of rigamarole to deal with 
two screen readers. If you live within the Chrome browser though it 
could be a reasonable alternative.


CB

On 2/21/12 11:29 PM, ezzie bueno wrote:

Hello again,

What exactly is Chromevox? I use Google Chrome.  Is Chromevox 
absolutely necessary?


Thanks,
Ezzie Ez Bueno
Sent from my BrailleNote Apex

Got Facebook? Get daily jokes on your newsfeed! 
http://facebook.com/sillyez/




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Re: Navigating By Letter?

[Chris Blouch]

Not 100% sure what you are asking. What I think of when navigating by 
letter is the usual ability to jump to something in a set of items by 
hitting the first letter or two to match an item's name. For example, if 
I do a VO-M to jump to the menu bar I can then hit the letter O to go to 
the Options menu or whatever. If I have a window with a list of files 
open I can hit U to jump to the first file (or folder) that starts with 
U. If there is more than one, such as Updates or Users I can quickly 
type "US" to jump to Users. Maybe there is some other feature I'm not as 
familiar with.


CB

On 2/21/12 11:13 PM, ezzie bueno wrote:

Hello list,

Here's a stupid question for you all:
How exactly does navigating by letter work? I rarely use Quick Nav.

Thanks,
Ezzie Ez Bueno
Sent from my BrailleNote Apex

Got Facebook? Get daily jokes on your newsfeed! 
http://facebook.com/sillyez/




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Re: BrailleTouch iPhone App

[Chris Blouch]

It hasn't been released yet. I guess they wanted to go through more user 
testing first.


CB

On 2/21/12 9:47 PM, Daniela Rubio wrote:

Hello all!
I found out that this App could be great. I knew one called 
Typeinbraille, but if this works as the video says, it should be great!
Where can I download Brailletouch for iPhone or iPad? I can't find it 
in the Appstore.

Thank you!

SALUDOS, DANIELA R.T.
MACNETICOS, APPLE Y ACCESIBILIDAD A TU ALCANCE.
 EN TWITTER: @macneticos
 NUESTRO BLOG EN:
www.macneticus.blogspot.com 
Y EL PODCAST EN:`
http://macneticos.libsyn.com 





El 21/02/2012, a las 15:58, Chris Blouch escribió:

True, but at some level there is a desire to allow anyone to use the 
same interface. So whether I tap around the screen or do split taps 
and flicks to move focus, it's still the same interface. It gets a 
little weirder when talking about a virtual keyboard because it's not 
really part of the application's designed experience as a shared 
input mechanism. At the same time, that mechanisim also has a user 
experience which may be better or worse usability for some. So is it 
better, on the whole, to enable that input mechanisim to be used by 
anyone or do you provide an alternate experience that is tailored 
more towards a certain class of users? I think universal design would 
point towards the shared experience being the best in the long run. 
For better or for worse everybody can help everybody else because 
it's the same UI. I've run into plenty of 'separate but equal' UIs 
for accessibility which never got much love after launch leaving 
users who rely on them as second class citizens.


CB

On 2/21/12 2:43 PM, Claus Thøgersen wrote:

Hi,

Actually universal design does not mean that everybody is forced to 
use the same UI, rather the  other way around, that an app or  the 
product you are designing must meet users way of using the device, 
and that real world users use devices in many different ways.


Claus


Den 21-02-2012 20:10, Chris Blouch skrev:
Dunno if anyone read these articles about using a chorded 6-finger 
input system to type on a mobile device. It would seem that it 
should be much faster to input this way but they haven't done real 
testing/analysis on this. It also requires holding the phone 
sideways with the screen pointing away so you can put three fingers 
on three dots on either end of the screen. I've always been in 
favor of 'universal design' where everybody uses the same basic UI 
so this seems to go against that. At the same time, if it were 2-3x 
faster than the current on screen keyboard input, maybe it would be 
worth it.


http://hothardware.com/News/Georgia-Tech-iPhone-App-Could-Help-Blind-Users-Text/ 

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Braille-Touch-app-brings-no-look-typing-to-handsets_id27003 



Apparently not available in iTunes Store yet. Won best design in 
the Stockholm Mobile HCI [Human Computer Interaction] 2011 conference:


http://www.mobilehci2011.org/node/127

CB





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Re: Navigating By Letter?

[Teresa Cochran]

Could you mean navigating by character? You can do that in a text editor with 
the arrow keys. In Safari, it's a bit trickier, as you first have to interact 
with the text. You can also press VO-c to read the current character or VO-w 
twice to spell a word. This is all without Quick-nav. If you want to use 
quicknav, you can first turn it on by pressing the left- and right-arrow keys 
simultaneously. Then press the down-arrow and left- or right-arrow keys to 
cycle through modes. You can toggle quick-nav off again with left- and 
right-arrows. 

HTH,
Teresa

"Visualize whirled peas."

On Feb 22, 2012, at 7:39 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:

> Not 100% sure what you are asking. What I think of when navigating by letter 
> is the usual ability to jump to something in a set of items by hitting the 
> first letter or two to match an item's name. For example, if I do a VO-M to 
> jump to the menu bar I can then hit the letter O to go to the Options menu or 
> whatever. If I have a window with a list of files open I can hit U to jump to 
> the first file (or folder) that starts with U. If there is more than one, 
> such as Updates or Users I can quickly type "US" to jump to Users. Maybe 
> there is some other feature I'm not as familiar with.
> 
> CB
> 
> On 2/21/12 11:13 PM, ezzie bueno wrote:
>> Hello list,
>> 
>> Here's a stupid question for you all:
>> How exactly does navigating by letter work? I rarely use Quick Nav.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Ezzie Ez Bueno
>> Sent from my BrailleNote Apex
>> 
>> Got Facebook? Get daily jokes on your newsfeed! http://facebook.com/sillyez/
>> 
> 
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Re: Navigating By Letter?

[Ricardo Walker]

Hi,

I think they might be speaking about 1 letter navigation.  You need to turn 
this on in voiceover utilities under commanders in the quick nav tab.

Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info

On Feb 22, 2012, at 11:45 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:

> Could you mean navigating by character? You can do that in a text editor with 
> the arrow keys. In Safari, it's a bit trickier, as you first have to interact 
> with the text. You can also press VO-c to read the current character or VO-w 
> twice to spell a word. This is all without Quick-nav. If you want to use 
> quicknav, you can first turn it on by pressing the left- and right-arrow keys 
> simultaneously. Then press the down-arrow and left- or right-arrow keys to 
> cycle through modes. You can toggle quick-nav off again with left- and 
> right-arrows. 
> 
> HTH,
> Teresa
> 
> "Visualize whirled peas."
> 
> On Feb 22, 2012, at 7:39 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:
> 
>> Not 100% sure what you are asking. What I think of when navigating by letter 
>> is the usual ability to jump to something in a set of items by hitting the 
>> first letter or two to match an item's name. For example, if I do a VO-M to 
>> jump to the menu bar I can then hit the letter O to go to the Options menu 
>> or whatever. If I have a window with a list of files open I can hit U to 
>> jump to the first file (or folder) that starts with U. If there is more than 
>> one, such as Updates or Users I can quickly type "US" to jump to Users. 
>> Maybe there is some other feature I'm not as familiar with.
>> 
>> CB
>> 
>> On 2/21/12 11:13 PM, ezzie bueno wrote:
>>> Hello list,
>>> 
>>> Here's a stupid question for you all:
>>> How exactly does navigating by letter work? I rarely use Quick Nav.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ezzie Ez Bueno
>>> Sent from my BrailleNote Apex
>>> 
>>> Got Facebook? Get daily jokes on your newsfeed! http://facebook.com/sillyez/
>>> 
>> 
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RE: Chromevox

[Bill Holton]

Thanks, also, for the explanation.  Just started playing with Chrome myself,
wondering if there are any extensions that do in fact enhance the web
experience with VO?


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Blouch
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:34 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Chromevox

Chromevox is Google's own screen reader that runs inside of Chrome. It 
uses the OSX speech engine but otherwise does everything itself. Some 
folks find they can navigate better with ChromeVox but it means learning 
keyboard controls for yet another screen reader. It also means you have 
to turn VO off when in Chrome with Chromevox running or you'll get 
everything double announced and have keyboard conflicts. If you decide 
you need to do something outside of Chrome, such as pull an URL from an 
email it gets pretty messy. You would need to turn VO back on, go into 
email to copy that URL, go back into Chrome, and turn VO back off again. 
This is the general pain of self-voicing apps on a system that already 
has a dandy screen reader. Maybe you can more easily navigate complex 
pages in Chrome with Chromevox but it's a lot of rigamarole to deal with 
two screen readers. If you live within the Chrome browser though it 
could be a reasonable alternative.

CB

On 2/21/12 11:29 PM, ezzie bueno wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> What exactly is Chromevox? I use Google Chrome.  Is Chromevox 
> absolutely necessary?
>
> Thanks,
> Ezzie Ez Bueno
> Sent from my BrailleNote Apex
>
> Got Facebook? Get daily jokes on your newsfeed! 
> http://facebook.com/sillyez/
>

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Some Growl success but still need advice

[Jennifer Perdue]

OK, I got Growl to open properly via the Dock,, and I'm on the settings.  It 
gives me a search field in which I have put Syrinx, for example, for 
notifications, but all it does is highlight it and it will just give me a 
cancel button.  If I VO right arrow, it gives me an empty table with no 
programs to chose from for notifications.  I'm still trying to get it to notify 
me about syrinx messages and Skype messages.  I feel a little closer to where I 
was before, but I'm not good at just listening to tutorials and getting things 
down pat and it's just easier if someone just gives me directions from where 
I'm at.  

I'm self-taught on this Mac and I guess considering I've only had it since June 
of 2011 and never had a class on it in my life, I guess I'm not doing too bad:) 
 I couldn't do it without you all though so I hope that you all know that 
though.  

Thanks for all of your patience and guidance.

Jenny and my goofy guide Brooks
On Feb 22, 2012, at 2:39 AM, Jürgen Fleger wrote:

> Hello Esther,
> 
> thanks to you. You encouraged me to try it again and again. And so I found 
> out a funny thing:
> 
> When I copy the last spoken phrase of VO to the clipboard by pressing VO + c 
> the following appears after pasting:
> Normalisieren  …
> This is the german word for normalize. There's the command then two empty 
> spaces and the the ellipsis sign. That doesn't work in the preferences of 
> keaboard short cuts.
> Then I tried 
> Normalisieren…
> That's what you used in your example, also no success.
> Then I tried
> Normalisieren …
> just with one empty space and that worked. Isn't it strange?
> 
> But anyway: I'm happy now to have the way free to define short cuts for all 
> commands in a menue. :-)
> 
> All the best
> Jürgen
> 
> Am 21.02.2012 um 23:12 schrieb Esther:
> 
>> Hello Jürgen,
>> 
>> Make sure that the keyboard shortcut you are assigning does not conflict 
>> with an existing shortcut definition that applies either to that application 
>> or system wide on your Mac.  One of the reason that I use so many modifier 
>> keys in the example shortcut, is that you quickly run out of unique 
>> combinations.  That's also why I make new shortcut definitions sparingly, 
>> and delete the ones that I set up as test cases.
>> 
>> Just out of curiosity, which command did you want to create a shortcut for?  
>> I'm working with a new installation under Lion, and don't have apps like 
>> Amadeus Pro loaded yet (this is a MacBook Air with less disk space than I 
>> had previously), so I can't run tests to answer questions while I'm still 
>> getting my system configured and transitioned to Lion.  
>> 
>> HTH.  Cheers,
>> 
>> Esther
>> 
>> On Feb 21, 2012, at 12:01 PM, Jürgen Fleger wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Esther,
>>> 
>>> thanks for your efforts. But still strange: I did it point by point as you 
>>> did and it doesn't work for me and Amadeus Pro. I can add a new created 
>>> short cut in system preferences and it doesn't appear in the menue of 
>>> Amadeus Pro and of course it doesn't work as well. 
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure why it doesn't work but will investigate that issue. But now I 
>>> know at least it works at all.
>>> 
>>> Thanks again for your help and
>>> all the best
>>> Jürgen
>>> Am 21.02.2012 um 21:40 schrieb Esther:
>>> 
 Hello Jürgen,
 
 To create keyboard shortcuts of those menu options which end with an 
 ellipsis, in Snow Leopard and Lion you navigate to System  Preferences > 
 Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts (tab 2 of 2) and select the option from a 
 table.  
 
 1. If the menu command is for a specific application, navigate to the 
 "Shortcuts categories" table and interact, then select "Application 
 Shortcuts".  
 2. Stop interacting and navigate to the "Add an application shortcut" 
 button and press (VO-Space).  
 3. In the dialog window, change the pop up menu button for the application 
 from "All Applications" to the one that you want (e.g., VO-Space and use 
 arrow keys and/or type the first letters of the name, like "i t" for 
 iTunes), and press return.  
 4. Then type in the name of the command you want in the text box for "Menu 
 Title:".  For example, I created a shortcut for the "Page Setup…" option 
 in the File menu of iTunes this way.  (It's something that I'd never want 
 to use, and I'm going to get rid of it right away, but it shows this 
 method works).  I typed in "Page Setup…" using the Option+semi-colon 
 shortcut to type the ellipsis at the end of "Setup".  
 5. Then I typed in a keyboard shortcut, Shift-Control-Option-Command-P, 
 and pressed the "Add" button.
 6. I closed the Keyboard  window with Command-W.  
 
 Sure enough, if I'm in the iTunes app, pressing this combination brings up 
 the Page Setup window.  However, I immediately went back to the page to 
 delete this shortcut, since I'm never going to use it and just tried this 
 out to mak

Re: Navigating By Letter?

[Chris Blouch]

Ahh. So in Safari I can jump to the next button by hitting the B key or 
next heading by hitting 1. Nice.


CB

On 2/22/12 12:03 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:

Hi,

I think they might be speaking about 1 letter navigation.  You need to turn 
this on in voiceover utilities under commanders in the quick nav tab.

Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info

On Feb 22, 2012, at 11:45 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:


Could you mean navigating by character? You can do that in a text editor with 
the arrow keys. In Safari, it's a bit trickier, as you first have to interact 
with the text. You can also press VO-c to read the current character or VO-w 
twice to spell a word. This is all without Quick-nav. If you want to use 
quicknav, you can first turn it on by pressing the left- and right-arrow keys 
simultaneously. Then press the down-arrow and left- or right-arrow keys to 
cycle through modes. You can toggle quick-nav off again with left- and 
right-arrows.

HTH,
Teresa

"Visualize whirled peas."

On Feb 22, 2012, at 7:39 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:


Not 100% sure what you are asking. What I think of when navigating by letter is the usual 
ability to jump to something in a set of items by hitting the first letter or two to 
match an item's name. For example, if I do a VO-M to jump to the menu bar I can then hit 
the letter O to go to the Options menu or whatever. If I have a window with a list of 
files open I can hit U to jump to the first file (or folder) that starts with U. If there 
is more than one, such as Updates or Users I can quickly type "US" to jump to 
Users. Maybe there is some other feature I'm not as familiar with.

CB

On 2/21/12 11:13 PM, ezzie bueno wrote:

Hello list,

Here's a stupid question for you all:
How exactly does navigating by letter work? I rarely use Quick Nav.

Thanks,
Ezzie Ez Bueno
Sent from my BrailleNote Apex

Got Facebook? Get daily jokes on your newsfeed! http://facebook.com/sillyez/


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Re: fn key on the full sized keyboard

[Steve Holmes]

The full size keyboard I have *DOES* have an FN key; it is in the
upper left corner of the 'nine pack' of keys just above the 4 arrow
keys.  The FN key is still needed to overide the default hardware uses
of some of the function keys like F1 thru F4.  Now, you can go into
the system preferences under keyboard and check the checkbox to use
software function keys and then you would not need to use FN at all
from what I can tell.  Well but if software function keys are enabled,
you would probably use the FN key to regain hardware functionality
such as controling brightness, sound, playback functions and all.
Personally, I prefer this configuration so I don't have to use the FN
key every time I want to use VO to identify active window or
application and the like.


On 2/21/12, Frank Tom  wrote:
> Maybe I'm a little off base, but I don't think there is a FN key on a full
> size keyboard. A full size keyboard, by definition, has function keys. There
> all on the top row. In any case, the keyboard describer mode, VO K, should
> tell you what everything is.
>
> Tom Frank
>
> On Feb 21, 2012, at 4:09 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:
>
>> Hi all,  I need to know, where is the fn key on a full sized apple
>> keyboard?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Erik Burggraaf
>> Currently on ebony promos: Ebony consulting on android accessibility, New
>> drive imaging services available.  To read more and subscribe, visit
>> http://www.erik-burggraaf.com/mailman/listinfo/ebony-promos_erik-burggraaf.com
>>
>> Ebony Consulting toll-free: 1-888-255-5194
>> or on the web at http://www.erik-burggraaf.com
>>
>>
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soundstudio question

[Egbert]

Hi,
i am trying hard to find my way in sound studio.
the problem is that i can select a piece of audio between markers, by giving an 
M.
but then i can not play the selected part and put my markers more precisely.
Can anyone tell me how to do this, or where i can find specific help?
Thx,
Egbert

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Re: Navigating By Letter?

[Ricardo Walker]

Yup,

This was added in Lion.

Ricardo Walker
rica...@appletothecore.info
Twitter:@apple2thecore
www.appletothecore.info

On Feb 22, 2012, at 1:27 PM, Chris Blouch wrote:

> Ahh. So in Safari I can jump to the next button by hitting the B key or next 
> heading by hitting 1. Nice.
> 
> CB
> 
> On 2/22/12 12:03 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I think they might be speaking about 1 letter navigation.  You need to turn 
>> this on in voiceover utilities under commanders in the quick nav tab.
>> 
>> Ricardo Walker
>> rica...@appletothecore.info
>> Twitter:@apple2thecore
>> www.appletothecore.info
>> 
>> On Feb 22, 2012, at 11:45 AM, Teresa Cochran wrote:
>> 
>>> Could you mean navigating by character? You can do that in a text editor 
>>> with the arrow keys. In Safari, it's a bit trickier, as you first have to 
>>> interact with the text. You can also press VO-c to read the current 
>>> character or VO-w twice to spell a word. This is all without Quick-nav. If 
>>> you want to use quicknav, you can first turn it on by pressing the left- 
>>> and right-arrow keys simultaneously. Then press the down-arrow and left- or 
>>> right-arrow keys to cycle through modes. You can toggle quick-nav off again 
>>> with left- and right-arrows.
>>> 
>>> HTH,
>>> Teresa
>>> 
>>> "Visualize whirled peas."
>>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2012, at 7:39 AM, Chris Blouch wrote:
>>> 
 Not 100% sure what you are asking. What I think of when navigating by 
 letter is the usual ability to jump to something in a set of items by 
 hitting the first letter or two to match an item's name. For example, if I 
 do a VO-M to jump to the menu bar I can then hit the letter O to go to the 
 Options menu or whatever. If I have a window with a list of files open I 
 can hit U to jump to the first file (or folder) that starts with U. If 
 there is more than one, such as Updates or Users I can quickly type "US" 
 to jump to Users. Maybe there is some other feature I'm not as familiar 
 with.
 
 CB
 
 On 2/21/12 11:13 PM, ezzie bueno wrote:
> Hello list,
> 
> Here's a stupid question for you all:
> How exactly does navigating by letter work? I rarely use Quick Nav.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ezzie Ez Bueno
> Sent from my BrailleNote Apex
> 
> Got Facebook? Get daily jokes on your newsfeed! 
> http://facebook.com/sillyez/
> 
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Re: VO with Zooms

[Louie P. (Pete) Nalda]

Hi, 
In my case I actually have Zoom set at full magnification, which I guess is 
20x.  I do back it down to 18x every now and then.  I do not like using Mail in 
preview mode, as it does elicit some of the behavior you mention.  Please note 
in my last message, in system prefs VO options, Anything not mentioned is Not 
checked.
On Feb 22, 2012, at 2:53 AM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> no, the zoom level is set to 8 times, and no larger.
> 
> the issue is that Voice Over appears to be doing an awful lot of repeating, 
> so it starts to speak, stops, and then starts again.
> 
> another issue is in Mail, we have the preview pain at the bottom of the 
> message table, when one message is highlighted in the message table, its 
> content appears at the bottom in the preview pain, as is expected. but, as 
> one then moves the mouse pointer down to the preview pain, to magnify this 
> area and also have VO read the message, each e-mail in the list of messages, 
> in the table become highlighted as the mouse pointer moves down.
> 
> This is not the visible Voice Over cursor, as that has been turned off.
> 
> any ideas?
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Neil Barnfather
> 
> Talks List Administrator
> Twitter @neilbarnfather
> 
> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, for all your
> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
> 
> URL: - www.talknav.com
> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com
> Phone: - +44  844 999 4199
> 
> 
> 
> On 22 Feb 2012, at 08:40, Garth Humphreys wrote:
> 
> Hi 
> 
> Can I ask how much do you zoom in. I mean do go right up to 20 times. I find 
> that I have a problem with navigating the menu bar with the arrow keys if my 
> Zoom is anything above about 12-15 times. 
> 
> Garth 
> @BlindTechMusing
> 
> 
> On 22/02/2012, at 12:18 PM, Louie P. (Pete) Nalda wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> I do this all the time.  Here's what I have mine set.  in Zoom:  Zoom 
>> follows keyboard focus.  Zoom moves continuously with keyboard focus.  In 
>> voicover I have:  keyboard follows Voicover cursor, Vo Cursor follows 
>> keyboard, and insertion point follows VO cursor, and VO ignores mouse 
>> cursor.  Unfortunately I can't get skype to work.  Email me for a phone 
>> number if needed.
>> 
>> On Feb 21, 2012, at 4:54 AM, Neil Barnfather - TalkNav wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear All,
>>> 
>>> I have a friend who is running SL on a MAcBook Air, he is trying to use 
>>> both Voice Over and Zooms at the same time, primarily using Zooms, with 
>>> Voice Over for support.
>>> 
>>> We are having trouble configuring Voice Over so that it does not impact 
>>> Zooms functionality and performance… but, appear to be failing, is there 
>>> anyone on list who has experience in using Zooms principally with Voice 
>>> Over as a reading aid along side Zooms?
>>> 
>>> if so, would you kindly either give me some pointers, or, better still, can 
>>> we make contact using Skype or other?
>>> 
>>> thanks.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Neil Barnfather
>>> 
>>> Talks List Administrator
>>> Twitter @neilbarnfather
>>> 
>>> TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple 
>>> iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your
>>> accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
>>> 
>>> URL: - www.talknav.com
>>> e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com
>>> Phone: - +44  844 999 4199
>>> 
>>> On 17 Feb 2012, at 04:31, Eugenia Firth wrote:
>>> 
 Hi guys.
 Maybe somebody covered this already, and so maybe I missed something 
 somewhere. I watched the video on the Apple website concerning Mountain 
 Lion. Since VoiceOver is so far not mentioned in these things ever, how do 
 we know what's changed for it? It looks like that the Notification Center 
 is going to be wonderful for us, especially if it works like it does on 
 the iPhone. 
 When I first got my Mac and knew practically nothing, I asked 
 accessibil...@apple.com how I was going to know about VoiceOver changes. 
 The answer I got back was that I could read articles on it and that they 
 would be published with everything else. I am not finding this to be the 
 case. So, how do we find out or do we just wait and see? 
 
 Regards,
 Gigi
 
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>>> 
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Re: Reading PDFs?

[Kirsten Edmondson]

Yes. You can read easily line or word. I've done it with chrome and safari. 

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Feb 2012, at 04:08, "Bejarano, Rafael P."  wrote:

> So, you are saying that using a web browser is better for reading pdf files 
> than using Preview?
> 
> Rafael Bejarano
> 
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On 
> Behalf Of Kirsten Edmondson [kirsten.edmond...@btinternet.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:00 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Reading PDFs?
> 
> I have started selecting the file I want from the folder by interacting with 
> the table and putting the cursor on the file and then uninteracting. I then 
> go VO+m and into open with. This brings up a list of programs, I think the 
> first one is preview and that's selected, you want to select something like 
> Safari or Chrome if you have it, press enter and it'll open fine. Much easier 
> to read. You have to do it every time though, as I haven't worked out how to 
> set it to open PDFs that way as default.
> 
> On 21 Feb 2012, at 03:52, Bill Holton wrote:
> 
>> Hi.
>> Are there any tricks to reading PDF's with OS Lion?  I wasn't able to review 
>> anything, I could just let preview read the entire document. I could go word 
>> by word with the track pad,but that is not a very pleasurable way to go 
>> through a long document you need to read slowly.  Figured there must 
>> something I'm missing.
>> Any help appreciated.
>> Bill
>> 
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Office Productivity on the Mac

[Steve Holmes]

What are people using these days for office productivity like word
processing, spreadsheets, etc.? I am aware of iWork but I thought Open
Office or probably now, Libreoffice would be even better.  Which of
these solutions ore most accessible now days.  I heard some old
podcasts recently where Open Office was supposed to be really good but
then Oracle came along and who knows now.

Any ideas?

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Re: Office Productivity on the Mac

[Becky Knaub]

I am using pages and I really don't think much of its accessibility issues. It 
works for simple things it just sometimes I really have to fiddle with it to 
get it to read things to me.
I think that's the1 of the 2 thing I miss about the PC is Word, for everything 
else my mac is awesome.

Becky 

On Feb 22, 2012, at 7:58 PM, Steve Holmes wrote:

> What are people using these days for office productivity like word
> processing, spreadsheets, etc.? I am aware of iWork but I thought Open
> Office or probably now, Libreoffice would be even better.  Which of
> these solutions ore most accessible now days.  I heard some old
> podcasts recently where Open Office was supposed to be really good but
> then Oracle came along and who knows now.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
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mactwitter question

[Egbert]

Hi folks,
i wander what accessible twitter program you use on your mac.
there are many, but not all are really helpful.
Could you recommend one?
thx,
egbert

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Re: Chromevox

[Mike Arrigo]

It's not required, chrome works pretty well with voiceover also, but chrome vox 
provides an alternative.
On Feb 21, 2012, at 10:29 PM, ezzie bueno wrote:

> Hello again,
> 
> What exactly is Chromevox? I use Google Chrome.  Is Chromevox absolutely 
> necessary?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ezzie Ez Bueno
> Sent from my BrailleNote Apex
> 
> Got Facebook? Get daily jokes on your newsfeed! http://facebook.com/sillyez/
> 
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Virus protection for the Mac revisited...

[ShamelessFanGirl]

Good evening all,

As is usually the case with my questions, the subject covers it. I'll be 
sharing drives, flash drives, etc between my Mac and Windows machines, and am 
wondering what you all recommend. Levels of protection, accessibility, etc?

Thanks in advance everyone

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Re: Virus protection for the Mac revisited...

[Matthew Campbell]

Hi.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I like virus barrier plus by intego.
You can find it on the mac app store. Not sure what the price is off the top of 
my head.
It'll scan everything but you have to do the scan manually or on a schedule. 
There's no real time protection as well.
I find that it works quite well with VoiceOver. There's one or 2 weirdly 
labelled elements like the one for updating the definitions but it's still one 
of the more accessible options that I've tried.
HTH,
Matthew Campbell.


On 2012-02-22, at 9:44 PM, ShamelessFanGirl wrote:

> Good evening all,
> 
> As is usually the case with my questions, the subject covers it. I'll be 
> sharing drives, flash drives, etc between my Mac and Windows machines, and am 
> wondering what you all recommend. Levels of protection, accessibility, etc?
> 
> Thanks in advance everyone
> 
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Re: numbers

[Gigi]

Hi guys
I have also had some success using the trackpad with numbers. I use it 
carefully, because sometimes it does things I don't want it today. However I 
have some big number spiles. If I want to go to the bottom of them, that seems 
to be the best way to do it.

Regards
Gigi

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 21, 2012, at 10:45 PM, "Bejarano, Rafael P."  wrote:

> If you are using an Intel-based Mac, then the first thing to do when you open 
> the Tables application is to get the cursor out of the table.  Press Shift, 
> Control, Option, up-arrow together, in order to get out of the table where 
> the cursor is pointing.  Press this key combination again to get out of the 
> spreadsheet.  Do these things first, or the following instructions won't make 
> sense.
> 
> Basically, there are two ways to read a cell's contents in Tables.  The first 
> way is to place the cursor over the field in which one enters numbers, 
> formulae, and so on.  If you choose this option, make sure VO is not locked, 
> so that you can use the arrow keys to move from cell to cell (i.e., left 
> arrow to move to the left, bottom arrow to move down, etc.).  This is a 
> simple option that allows you to navigate from cell to cell, to read each 
> cell's contents, and to enter data into individual cells, all from the 
> data-entry field.  
> 
> The second way to move around in Tables is somewhat more complicated.  To 
> make things easier, first lock VO (by pressing control-option-semicolon).  
> Next, enter the spreadsheet, by pressing shift and the down-arrow key 
> together.  At this level, you will be able to move the VO cursor with the 
> arrow keys and read the letters designating the columns (i.e., Column A, 
> Column B, etc.), as well as the row numbers (i.e., Row 1, Row 2, etc.).  To 
> access the individual cells, navigate to the table (VO says "table when 
> you've found it).  With VO still locked, press the shift and down-arrow keys 
> together again.  That will put you in the table of cells, from which point 
> onward you can just use the arrow keys to navigate from cell to cell.
> 
> I hope this helps.  Let me know if you have any other questions, and I'll do 
> my best to try to answer them.
> 
> Cordially,
> Rafael
> 
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On 
> Behalf Of Jürgen Fleger [apple-engl...@fleger.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 3:52 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: numbers
> 
> Hi Rafael,
> 
> I tried Tables and it's much faster to work with then with Numbers. But what 
> I didn't understand was how to read text in a cell. I pressed F2 to edit the 
> cell and couldn't have VO to read text by pressing arrow keys. Did I 
> something wrong or does Tables not support VO that much?
> 
> All the best Jürgen
> Am 20.02.2012 um 18:24 schrieb Bejarano, Rafael P.:
> 
>> If your spreadsheet needs are not very complicated, you might wish to 
>> consider Tables.  It's the spreadsheet app that I use on the Mac, and I 
>> really like it.  It has all the usual functions, and you can enter your own 
>> formulae, as well.  You can save your work as xl files, too.  Creating 
>> graphs is somewhat limited, however.
>> 
>> Rafael Bejarano
>> On Feb 20, 2012, at 10:16 AM, May McDonald wrote:
>> 
>> Good day everyone.
>> 
>> Well, I guess I can't avoid it any longer. Drn school stuff. Is there a 
>> place where I could find tutorials on how to use numbers? Or can anyone 
>> recommend a good program that handles excel files if numbers is not the best 
>> to use?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> May and Prince Noah
>> cell: 613-863-5845 or 1-888-778-2544
>> email: mcdonald@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
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RE: Reading PDFs?

[Bejarano, Rafael P.]

You can do that with Preview, too.

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Kirsten Edmondson [kirsten.edmond...@btinternet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 5:07 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Reading PDFs?

Yes. You can read easily line or word. I've done it with chrome and safari.

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Feb 2012, at 04:08, "Bejarano, Rafael P."  wrote:

> So, you are saying that using a web browser is better for reading pdf files 
> than using Preview?
>
> Rafael Bejarano
> 
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On 
> Behalf Of Kirsten Edmondson [kirsten.edmond...@btinternet.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:00 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Reading PDFs?
>
> I have started selecting the file I want from the folder by interacting with 
> the table and putting the cursor on the file and then uninteracting. I then 
> go VO+m and into open with. This brings up a list of programs, I think the 
> first one is preview and that's selected, you want to select something like 
> Safari or Chrome if you have it, press enter and it'll open fine. Much easier 
> to read. You have to do it every time though, as I haven't worked out how to 
> set it to open PDFs that way as default.
>
> On 21 Feb 2012, at 03:52, Bill Holton wrote:
>
>> Hi.
>> Are there any tricks to reading PDF's with OS Lion?  I wasn't able to review 
>> anything, I could just let preview read the entire document. I could go word 
>> by word with the track pad,but that is not a very pleasurable way to go 
>> through a long document you need to read slowly.  Figured there must 
>> something I'm missing.
>> Any help appreciated.
>> Bill
>>
>> --
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>>
>
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Tables [was:] Re: numbers

[Jürgen Fleger]

No Rafael, that's not what I asked for. I know how to enter data. But I want to 
change existing data in the cells. 
Imagine you have an address of a friend in a cell. His telephone number changes 
and you want to change just the number. How to do this in Tables?
I don't see this important possibility accessible with VoiceOver.
Again: how to change specific data in a cell? 
Not entering data in an empty cell. That's easy.
Hopefully my question is clearer now.
Jürgen
Am 22.02.2012 um 16:26 schrieb Bejarano, Rafael P.:

> Tables has a data entry field.  That is where data are entered into each 
> cell.  If you cannot find the data entry field on your own, you may benefit 
> from sighted help to find it the first time.  Place your cursor in the field, 
> making sure VO is not locked.  You can then type or paste in data and 
> formulae.  If you type in the data entry field, press the return (enter) key 
> to get the data into the cell.  The arrow keys are used to move between cells.
> 
> Rafael
> On Feb 22, 2012, at 2:17 AM, Jürgen Fleger wrote:
> 
>> Hello Rafael,
>> 
>> thanks for your hints. So far Tables works fine.
>> 
>> But what I meant was how to edit a cell and change inserted content. That 
>> doesn't work here for me.
>> 
>> As far as I could find out I have to enter the edit mode of a chosen cell by 
>> pressing F2. VO anounces "edit". But then it's not possible to read or 
>> delete single characters or to navigate through the content of a cell just 
>> by using the arrow keys. Of course I can navigate by using VO + arrow keys 
>> but. I should say that I use a sheet like a two dimensional notepad. I don't 
>> use it as a calculator and so I don't need formulas in a cell. But to take 
>> notes and so I enter a lot of text in it. So it's quite important for me to 
>> delete parts of the text and enter new content.
>> 
>> So: How do you delete parts of text in a cell and how to enter just one word 
>> in a text of a cell? Deleting a whole cell is easily possible.
>> 
>> Thanks and all the best
>> Jürgen
>> 
>> 
>> Am 22.02.2012 um 05:45 schrieb Bejarano, Rafael P.:
>> 
>>> If you are using an Intel-based Mac, then the first thing to do when you 
>>> open the Tables application is to get the cursor out of the table.  Press 
>>> Shift, Control, Option, up-arrow together, in order to get out of the table 
>>> where the cursor is pointing.  Press this key combination again to get out 
>>> of the spreadsheet.  Do these things first, or the following instructions 
>>> won't make sense.
>>> 
>>> Basically, there are two ways to read a cell's contents in Tables.  The 
>>> first way is to place the cursor over the field in which one enters 
>>> numbers, formulae, and so on.  If you choose this option, make sure VO is 
>>> not locked, so that you can use the arrow keys to move from cell to cell 
>>> (i.e., left arrow to move to the left, bottom arrow to move down, etc.).  
>>> This is a simple option that allows you to navigate from cell to cell, to 
>>> read each cell's contents, and to enter data into individual cells, all 
>>> from the data-entry field.  
>>> 
>>> The second way to move around in Tables is somewhat more complicated.  To 
>>> make things easier, first lock VO (by pressing control-option-semicolon).  
>>> Next, enter the spreadsheet, by pressing shift and the down-arrow key 
>>> together.  At this level, you will be able to move the VO cursor with the 
>>> arrow keys and read the letters designating the columns (i.e., Column A, 
>>> Column B, etc.), as well as the row numbers (i.e., Row 1, Row 2, etc.).  To 
>>> access the individual cells, navigate to the table (VO says "table when 
>>> you've found it).  With VO still locked, press the shift and down-arrow 
>>> keys together again.  That will put you in the table of cells, from which 
>>> point onward you can just use the arrow keys to navigate from cell to cell.
>>> 
>>> I hope this helps.  Let me know if you have any other questions, and I'll 
>>> do my best to try to answer them.
>>> 
>>> Cordially,
>>> Rafael
>>> 
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On 
>>> Behalf Of Jürgen Fleger [apple-engl...@fleger.net]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 3:52 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: numbers
>>> 
>>> Hi Rafael,
>>> 
>>> I tried Tables and it's much faster to work with then with Numbers. But 
>>> what I didn't understand was how to read text in a cell. I pressed F2 to 
>>> edit the cell and couldn't have VO to read text by pressing arrow keys. Did 
>>> I something wrong or does Tables not support VO that much?
>>> 
>>> All the best Jürgen
>>> Am 20.02.2012 um 18:24 schrieb Bejarano, Rafael P.:
>>> 
 If your spreadsheet needs are not very complicated, you might wish to 
 consider Tables.  It's the spreadsheet app that I use on the Mac, and I 
 really like it.  It has all the usual functions, and you can enter your 
 own