Re: keyboard shortcuts for Skype

2009-07-25 Thread Simon Cavendish

Hello,

Just to add to this, Anne Robertson once gave a very good description  
of setting up new keyboard shortcuts which should still b available in  
the archives of the discussion group. I can't off-hand remember the  
url for the discussion archive - sorry not to be very helpful. The  
important point to remember is when you type in the name of the menu  
item to which your shortcut is to point, you must enter it exactly as  
it appears in the menu. Also, remember to choose a shortcut  
combination that's not likely to clash with another existing one.

With best wishes, Anna, Simon
On 25 Jul 2009, at 00:05, Jonathan C. Cohn wrote:

>
> You should be able to set this up in the system preferences.
>
> Under Keyboard and mouse there is a tab called keyboard shortcuts.
>
> By default there are no skype shortcuts, but below the table are two
> buttons  the first is add and the second is remove.
>
> I did not actually try this myself, but when you click that first
> button it gives instructions. Give it a wirl and let us know.
>
> Jon
>
> On Jul 24, 2009, at 6:19 PM, Woody Anna Dresner wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Now that I have a working microphone for Skype, are there any  
>> keyboard
>> shortcuts for answering calls, hanging up, etc.? I tried Skype help,
>> but couldn't find anything. I also don't see global options for
>> setting up keyboard commands in Skype preferences the way I did in  
>> the
>> Windows version.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Anna
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: really dumb questions about RSS readers, but...

2009-07-25 Thread Jude DaShiell

Cell phones can sometimes subscribe to rss feeds.  The apple hot news feed 
was offered to me by my Nokia N75 phone when I visited the apple web site 
a while ago, but not all feeds are compatible with cell phones.  It's an 
old version of netscape the phone has on it for its new browser that gets 
these feeds.



On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, Fonzie wrote:

> Hi Olivia!  How are you doing?
>
> I hope your day is going well.
>
> An RSS Feed is a syndicated feed, or to put it plainly, a link that gets 
> monitored for incoming news/articles/podcasts, or whatever the feed is for. 
> Think of it like getting your newspaper delivered to you, only in a 
> electronic way, and not actually on paper.
>
> Anyhow, RSS feeds can be found usually all over the web.  Just look for a 
> link that is labled as RSS, and that will get you started.
>
> As for an RSS Reader, it is basically a program that houses all the 
> information being gathered.  It works as a subscription service.  As long as 
> you provide the RSS URL, which you get from clicking on the RSS link on a 
> page, then you are good.  Most of the time, pages have a way of automatically 
> presenting your RSS Reader with the information, therefore making it quicker 
> to subscribe.
>
> Safari already has an RSS reader built in by default.  If you go to your 
> location bar with VO+ L, and then use VO Navigational keys to navigate to the 
> right, you will hear an item that says news.  If you have it enabled or still 
> catching news, as it is set by default, a number will be heard after News is 
> spoken.  You can use VO+Space to pull the menu down, and see what is 
> available.  So for example, Safari defaults to subscribing to Google as an 
> RSS feed.  If you click on the Google item, you will be taken to a page that 
> has all the collected google artiles stored, allowing you to read them at 
> your own pace without going to the actual webpage.
>
> RSS Readers are really good in this way, only because you can get all your 
> information at one place, and not have to hop all over the web for the info 
> you want.
>
> Mail has an RSS Reader, and other applications like Net News Wire, PlayPod, 
> and Vienna do a more specific handling of RSS feds, since that is what they 
> were made for.  Mail works with RSS feeds as well, but programs like Vienna, 
> NetNewsWire, and PlayPod were designed for hte job.
>
> In either case, it is totally a user preference whether you want to get RSS 
> Feeds in your web client, mail client, or use a particular program to do it.
>
> I hope this helps you out.
>
> Best wishes.
>
> Fonzie
> On Oct 2, 2008, at 9:46 PM, UCLA Bruins Fan wrote:
>
>> What is an RSS feed? What is an RSS reader?  How do I find RSS feeds and 
>> use RSS readers?
>> Sorry for this obvious question, but I would love some guidence.
>> Thanks, Olivia
>> 
>> 
>
>

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Re: Where might i find a plugin for isync?

2009-07-25 Thread Krister Ekstrom

Hi and thanks very much for this, i managed to download the plugin.  
Now the fun begins.:-)
/Krister


24 jul 2009 kl. 17.44 skrev Abdul Kamara:

>
> Greetings,
>
> I sympathize...  Much of the site appears to be festooned with flash
> animation-- which they do provide the option of deactivating...
>
> Here is the page you are looking for...
> http://europe.nokia.com/get-support-and-software/product-support/isync/compatibility-and-download
>
> When you get to the page, use the item chooser menu (VO-Key + I) and
> type E66.  It will narrow down to the only entry on that page.  Select
> it, and move the VO cursor to the right which should read "Download".
> It will not read as a link, but don't be fooled, it is.
>
> On the page that follows, select the "Accept and Start Download"
> link-- as I'm certain you would have no issue with the software
> license agreement.  The linkbutton should be about the third or forth
> object from the start of the page..
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Best,
>
> Abdul
>
>
>
> On 24 Jul 2009, at 12:31, Krister Ekstrom wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi good people.
>> I'm about to sell my Nokia E66 and want to sync my contacts and such
>> to my Mac so that i can get it onto my Iphone when i finally get  
>> it. I
>> tried just using isync with my phone but that didn't work so now i
>> wonder if anyone knows about a plugin for syncing the Nokia E66 via
>> Isync and where i might obtain it. If anyone could provide a direct
>> link to the plugin i would be greatful since the nokia site is very
>> messy to say the least.
>> Thankful for any and all help.
>> /Krister
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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apple garageband?

2009-07-25 Thread a radix
Hi everyone, I could not find too many recent reviews of this program but I 
udnerstand its part of the ilife suit which I think is included with os x.
I have always enjoyed listening to music andin the past I played piano and 
saxophone. Garage band seems like a nice tool tolearn music on the computer 
sicne it includes both instruments to use with an external midi keyboard an 
loops you can use.
Does anyone know if it is accessible?
Greetings, Anouk,
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Re: running leopard on a pc?

2009-07-25 Thread ben mustill-rose

In order for this to work, you would have to obtain a modified osx
image that is floating around the internet. There are reports of
people running these in vm's but the biggist problem that your going
to run into is hardware incompatabilities.
If I were in your situation, I would look up if your hardware has ever
run leopard before (Google osx86), download a leopard disk image and
then set up a dule boot. I know its a bit more hassle in the end, but
it goes with out saying that leopard will have more resources
available to it if you do go this rout as apposed to running it in a
vm.

On 25/07/2009, Barry Hadder  wrote:
>
> I remember reading somewhere that vmware used to have something for
> the pc a few years ago that would run mac os.  They pulled it though
> due to threats they got from Apple.
>
> On Jul 24, 2009, at 11:05 PM, Blake Sinnett wrote:
>
>> I really don't think that'll work. As far as I know there isn't a VM
>> that emulates EFI (extensible firmware interface.) However, I could
>> be wrong.
>>
>> > From: gene5...@austin.rr.com
>> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> > Subject: running leopard on a pc?
>> > Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 22:02:32 -0500
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi, I have vmware for windows as well as my ibook, and some other
>> people on
>> > another list I'm on are trying to run leopard on the pc under
>> vmware and I
>> > was trying it to but I don't know if it is possible or not, I
>> chose other as
>> > the os because there isn't an option for the mac os.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
> >
>


-- 
Kind regards, BEN.

email: bmustillr...@gmail.com
msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com
web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction)

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15 inch vs 17inch

2009-07-25 Thread a radix
Hello, Am I right in thinking thatthe only difference between the 15 inch and 
17 inch laptops is the screen? I mean you can get the top config on the 15 inch 
right? 
Also, i know all the laptops have the glossy display but can you also get the 
matte display or can you only do this for the 17 inch?
Greetings, Anouk,
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Re: Microsoft stores to mimic Apple's with "Guru Bars"

2009-07-25 Thread Scott Howell
Well this my friend is one area where Apple could expend a little  
effort. I don't expect them to be experts, but they certainly should  
have more than just a passing awareness of it. I realize that (and  
I'll take some heat for this comment) a smaller segment of the market  
than what most stores see as customers rolling through the doors, but  
I believe that at the least they should have a cheat sheet that could  
be pulled to answer some basic questions.
I think this is one of those areas that could be easily addressed and  
it is of course possible something is in the works, but think I'll  
ask. I think also if enough people put a bug in Apples ear, they are  
going to be a bit more apt to do something. I will say that it seems  
more of their support personnel at least have heard of VOiceOver and I  
suspect a lot of this is to do with the iPod and iPhones, so there is  
hope.
On Jul 25, 2009, at 1:51 AM, Abdul Kamara wrote:

> Oh how sad...
>
> I bet the people at Microsoft were "squirting" all over each other  
> Zoons in hand when they came up with that...
>
> Yeah, this is one of few areas where I would criticize Apple.  It is  
> problematic when Geniuses know nothing about the accessibility  
> components of the operating system, or at least, not reliably so..  
> to the extent that they could demonstrate it in house.
>
> Best,
>
> Abdul
>
> Best,
>
> A
>
>
> On 25 Jul 2009, at 04:20, Scott Howell wrote:
>
>> WOw, maybe Microsoft is feeling a little pressured to try emulating  
>> Apple even more? This should prove quite fascinating and I assume  
>> with all these PCs they plan to sell, would mean third-party deals  
>> with Dell and other companies. What is interesting is if they will  
>> have demos of the windows-based screen readers. :)
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> Date: July 24, 2009 9:20:00 PM EDT
>>> Subject: Microsoft stores to mimic Apple's with "Guru Bars"
>>> Source: AppleInsider
>>>
>>> A leaked presentation has exposed Microsoft's tentative plans for  
>>> its retail stores -- and the high degree to which they'll imitate  
>>> Apple stores, down to their layouts and even the presence of a  
>>> dedicated "Guru Bar" for help.
>>> Read more…
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >


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Re: 15 inch vs 17inch

2009-07-25 Thread Scott Howell
To the best of my knowledge yes, you can get pretty much the same  
stuff on the 15-inch as the 17-inch. Of course check either on the  
site or call Apple's sales department to verify, but I'm pretty sure.  
I think the difference is some items are standard on the 17 that may  
not be on the 15 as stock, but available as upgrades on the 15.
On Jul 25, 2009, at 6:31 AM, a radix wrote:

> Hello, Am I right in thinking thatthe only difference between the 15  
> inch and 17 inch laptops is the screen? I mean you can get the top  
> config on the 15 inch right?
> Also, i know all the laptops have the glossy display but can you  
> also get the matte display or can you only do this for the 17 inch?
> Greetings, Anouk,
>
> >


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Safari 4.0.2

2009-07-25 Thread Christina Athena

Is anyone having difficulty with Safari 4.0.2 and Voiceover.  I can't
the voiceover to interact with Safari.  I refresh my screen and all it
says is blank.  I try again and all it says is blank.

Can anybody help?
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plug ins convertion

2009-07-25 Thread Marie Howarth

I exported a plug in from audio highjack and it is now in a plain text  
file. it has what appears the code in it, how do I get it to be an  
actual plug in? I know this is strictly not accessibility but this in  
a way could help users of audio high jack if only I can figure out how  
to convert the code to an actual plug in. any help off list would be  
great.
sorry to the mod


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aim acount on mail

2009-07-25 Thread Marie Howarth

has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send emails,  
but it seems to not want to download from the server.
am I missing something?


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Re: aim acount on mail

2009-07-25 Thread Marie Howarth

yes. I can send mail but receiving it is a problem. I've followed  
several steps online instructions, and the email is going to the  
account, I checked on the web.

On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:29 PM, patrickneazer wrote:

> Hello Marie and all:
>
> Are you attempting to do this in apple mail?
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>
>>
>> has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send  
>> emails,
>> but it seems to not want to download from the server.
>> am I missing something?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>
> Love
>
> Me
>
>
> >


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Re: aim acount on mail

2009-07-25 Thread patrickneazer
Hello Marie and all:

Are you attempting to do this in apple mail?
On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:

>
> has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send emails,
> but it seems to not want to download from the server.
> am I missing something?
>
>
> >

Take good care and I wish you enough.

Love

Me


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Re: aim acount on mail

2009-07-25 Thread patrickneazer
Hello Marie and all:

I do not believe I follow you. You are using apple mail and you can  
receive email. Am I correct so far?

The trouble is that you are having difficulty receiving email?

I lost you when you said you can see the mail on the web. Are you  
sending email somewhere else and then attempting to pull it back down  
or are you sending an email with a cc or bcc which is not getting  
through to you?

Not wanting to be difficult just attempting to understand.
On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:

>
> yes. I can send mail but receiving it is a problem. I've followed
> several steps online instructions, and the email is going to the
> account, I checked on the web.
>
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:29 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>
>> Hello Marie and all:
>>
>> Are you attempting to do this in apple mail?
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send
>>> emails,
>>> but it seems to not want to download from the server.
>>> am I missing something?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>>
>> Love
>>
>> Me
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >

Take good care and I wish you enough.

Love

Me


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Re: aim acount on mail

2009-07-25 Thread Marie Howarth

OK, I confuse myself often lol.
I can send from the aim account in the mail app. But when I've  
attempted to send an email from another account to test that the  
account is working, it doesn't show up in mail. I checked on the web  
based area for aim and all the tests I did are there. They are just  
not landing in mail. Hope that was a little clearer. So I think  
there's a connection issue from the server to the mail app.

On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:41 PM, patrickneazer wrote:

> Hello Marie and all:
>
> I do not believe I follow you. You are using apple mail and you can  
> receive email. Am I correct so far?
>
> The trouble is that you are having difficulty receiving email?
>
> I lost you when you said you can see the mail on the web. Are you  
> sending email somewhere else and then attempting to pull it back  
> down or are you sending an email with a cc or bcc which is not  
> getting through to you?
>
> Not wanting to be difficult just attempting to understand.
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>
>>
>> yes. I can send mail but receiving it is a problem. I've followed
>> several steps online instructions, and the email is going to the
>> account, I checked on the web.
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:29 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Marie and all:
>>>
>>> Are you attempting to do this in apple mail?
>>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>>>

 has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send
 emails,
 but it seems to not want to download from the server.
 am I missing something?




>>>
>>> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>>>
>>> Love
>>>
>>> Me
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>
> Love
>
> Me
>
>
> >


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Re: 15 inch vs 17inch

2009-07-25 Thread Marshall Scott
The one difference I know of is that the new 17 inch still has an  
Express slot.
Marsh
On Jul 25, 2009, at 4:41 AM, Scott Howell wrote:

> To the best of my knowledge yes, you can get pretty much the same  
> stuff on the 15-inch as the 17-inch. Of course check either on the  
> site or call Apple's sales department to verify, but I'm pretty  
> sure. I think the difference is some items are standard on the 17  
> that may not be on the 15 as stock, but available as upgrades on the  
> 15.
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 6:31 AM, a radix wrote:
>
>> Hello, Am I right in thinking thatthe only difference between the  
>> 15 inch and 17 inch laptops is the screen? I mean you can get the  
>> top config on the 15 inch right?
>> Also, i know all the laptops have the glossy display but can you  
>> also get the matte display or can you only do this for the 17 inch?
>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >


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Re: aim acount on mail

2009-07-25 Thread patrickneazer
Hello Marie and all:

This sounds like the evil smtp server problem (grin).

Of course the questions you have heard all before most likely

1. is your smtp information correct ... the address ... proper port  
numbers ... etc according to aim

2. Using the mail menus ... in particular ... the bring all accounts  
online option in the mailbox menu ... have you checked to make sure  
the accounts are online?

3. this next point might have absolutely nothing to do with this  
though it might shed a little light on something. when you compose an  
email ... before sending it use VO + left arrow to move to the left   
of the body of the message. You should hear ... from followed by an  
email address pop up button. use VO + spacebar to click on that button  
and see if you have other email addresses in that list. If you have an  
aim address in that list ... select it and then move to the right  
using VO + right arrow. you should hear it say ... outgoing server. If  
it is not the server you think should be used for the aim account use  
VO + spacebar to activate the pop up button and see if you can find  
the appropriate server. If you find it ... select it and then attempt  
to send the email.

The reason I make that last suggestion because it will shed some light  
as to whether or not mail is seeing things properly.

I hope I have not confused the situation more than is necessary.
On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:47 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:

>
> OK, I confuse myself often lol.
> I can send from the aim account in the mail app. But when I've
> attempted to send an email from another account to test that the
> account is working, it doesn't show up in mail. I checked on the web
> based area for aim and all the tests I did are there. They are just
> not landing in mail. Hope that was a little clearer. So I think
> there's a connection issue from the server to the mail app.
>
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:41 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>
>> Hello Marie and all:
>>
>> I do not believe I follow you. You are using apple mail and you can
>> receive email. Am I correct so far?
>>
>> The trouble is that you are having difficulty receiving email?
>>
>> I lost you when you said you can see the mail on the web. Are you
>> sending email somewhere else and then attempting to pull it back
>> down or are you sending an email with a cc or bcc which is not
>> getting through to you?
>>
>> Not wanting to be difficult just attempting to understand.
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> yes. I can send mail but receiving it is a problem. I've followed
>>> several steps online instructions, and the email is going to the
>>> account, I checked on the web.
>>>
>>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:29 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>>>
 Hello Marie and all:

 Are you attempting to do this in apple mail?
 On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:

>
> has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send
> emails,
> but it seems to not want to download from the server.
> am I missing something?
>
>
>
>

 Take good care and I wish you enough.

 Love

 Me


>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>>
>> Love
>>
>> Me
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >

Take good care and I wish you enough.

Love

Me


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Re: aim acount on mail

2009-07-25 Thread Marie Howarth

no, but I confused you :)
that part is working fine. it's emails coming in that well, are not  
coming in. :)
On Jul 25, 2009, at 4:17 PM, patrickneazer wrote:

> Hello Marie and all:
>
> This sounds like the evil smtp server problem (grin).
>
> Of course the questions you have heard all before most likely
>
> 1. is your smtp information correct ... the address ... proper port  
> numbers ... etc according to aim
>
> 2. Using the mail menus ... in particular ... the bring all accounts  
> online option in the mailbox menu ... have you checked to make sure  
> the accounts are online?
>
> 3. this next point might have absolutely nothing to do with this  
> though it might shed a little light on something. when you compose  
> an email ... before sending it use VO + left arrow to move to the  
> left  of the body of the message. You should hear ... from followed  
> by an email address pop up button. use VO + spacebar to click on  
> that button and see if you have other email addresses in that list.  
> If you have an aim address in that list ... select it and then move  
> to the right using VO + right arrow. you should hear it say ...  
> outgoing server. If it is not the server you think should be used  
> for the aim account use VO + spacebar to activate the pop up button  
> and see if you can find the appropriate server. If you find it ...  
> select it and then attempt to send the email.
>
> The reason I make that last suggestion because it will shed some  
> light as to whether or not mail is seeing things properly.
>
> I hope I have not confused the situation more than is necessary.
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:47 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>
>>
>> OK, I confuse myself often lol.
>> I can send from the aim account in the mail app. But when I've
>> attempted to send an email from another account to test that the
>> account is working, it doesn't show up in mail. I checked on the web
>> based area for aim and all the tests I did are there. They are just
>> not landing in mail. Hope that was a little clearer. So I think
>> there's a connection issue from the server to the mail app.
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:41 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Marie and all:
>>>
>>> I do not believe I follow you. You are using apple mail and you can
>>> receive email. Am I correct so far?
>>>
>>> The trouble is that you are having difficulty receiving email?
>>>
>>> I lost you when you said you can see the mail on the web. Are you
>>> sending email somewhere else and then attempting to pull it back
>>> down or are you sending an email with a cc or bcc which is not
>>> getting through to you?
>>>
>>> Not wanting to be difficult just attempting to understand.
>>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>>>

 yes. I can send mail but receiving it is a problem. I've followed
 several steps online instructions, and the email is going to the
 account, I checked on the web.

 On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:29 PM, patrickneazer wrote:

> Hello Marie and all:
>
> Are you attempting to do this in apple mail?
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>
>>
>> has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send
>> emails,
>> but it seems to not want to download from the server.
>> am I missing something?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>
> Love
>
> Me
>
>
>>




>>>
>>> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>>>
>>> Love
>>>
>>> Me
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>
> Love
>
> Me
>
>
> >


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Re: Optimizing terminal accessibility

2009-07-25 Thread Mitchell Smith

Hi,

As a software developer myself, I find it more VO friendly to use an IDE 
such as Eclipse 3.5 for Java / Python dev.

It's much quicker to jump around files, you have content assist for 
completing method names, it is constantly building your project in the 
background and the Problems view will very quickly report any compile 
problems in your code, it has nice integration for revision control like 
subversion or git, it also has plugins for ruby / C++ so it should cover all 
the languages you require.

Eclipse 3.4 under Leopard definitely had some issues but the new Eclipse 3.5 
which uses cocoa for UI controls works much more nicely.

The performance is a little sub optimal at this stage with Java 5, but Java 
6 in Snow Leopard appears to resolve most of that.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Mitch

- Original Message - 
From: "Garry Turkington" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: Optimizing terminal accessibility


>
> Hi James/Alex,
>
> Thanks for your input here.  James, I'd be interested to hear if you've
> done any configuring to make access to apps on the remote machines you ssh
> to better?
>
> Coming back to my 3 questions thanks for the clarification re interaction
> with the scroll area for screen review, that's fine.
>
> But I'm still frustrated that multi-line output from commands isn't
> automatically read and would either require me to interact with the scroll
> area to review the output or as Alex suggests pipe output to a file for
> review.  I'll be doing primarily Java development (with some
> C++/Python/Ruby thrown in) so an efficient edit/compile/debug cycle is
> really important.  Getting the output of the Java compiler to read as it
> appears instead of having to review it or even worse pipe out and review
> would probably improve my productivity by an order of magnitude.
>
> On the remaining point does anyone use any ncurses based apps such as Pine
> or Lynx on remote machines and discovered a way for better cursor
> tracking?  Anyone raised terminal accessibility issues with Apple?
>
> Many thanks,
> Garry
>
> -- 
> Garry Turkington
> garry.turking...@gmail.com
>
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2009, Michael Babcock wrote:
>
>>
>> hi;
>> jumping in here, but i use terminal all the time for sshing into the 3
>> servers i administer, if someone has a better way to do this, that
>> would be wonderful, but i just use it now and love it:)
>> On Jul 21, 2009, at 1:10 AM, James & Nash wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Alex and all,
>>>
>>> Aren't VIM and Nano Linux command line tools? I'm sure I've seen
>>> them when
>>> I've played with Linux? You can port these to the Mac I take it how
>>> cool.
>>>
>>> Take care
>>>
>>> James
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Alex Jurgensen" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:39 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Optimizing terminal accessibility
>>>
>>>

 Hi,
 Gary,

 I use it all day with varied success. Nano is a new eddition to my
 toolbox and it seems to have a few qwerks, but nothing major. I also
 used to use VIM, but found it crashed a lot with VO.

 You are correct that interacting and moving the VO cursor is the only
 way to read prior text.

 As far as interuptions, you should pipe the contents to a file and
 read it from teh file instead.

 What knd of development are you doing?

 Regards,
 Alex,


 On 20-Jul-09, at 8:09 PM, Garry Turkington wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I played with the Mac terminal last year and got some help from
> people
> here re its accessibility.  I'm now using my Mac a lot more and want
> to
> get the most out of the terminal so am requesting wisdom from others
> out
> there.
>
> From the command line I really  need the ability to do development
> locally
> and connect to remote machines via ssh.  I've found a few issues:
>
> 1. Any command that generates multi-line output seems to be
> truncated by
> the prompt or new line announcement.  Good example is "java -
> version".  I
> can improve this by setting a much shorter prompt in my shell but
> it's
> still very hit and miss.  Is there any way to configure things to
> more
> reliably read new information?  I've tried messing around with
> cursor and
> terminal types with no success that I can really point to.
>
> 2. Is there any way to review prior text on the screen or is
> interacting
> with the scroll area and moving the VO cursor up the way to do that?
>
> 3. When connecting to remote machines -- and to a lesser degree
> locally --
> I need access to some ncurses applications but the cursor tracking
> with VO
> seems very unpredictable.  An example would be to open "lynx -
> show_cursor"
> on the remote box and try and say navigate around the CNN homepage.
> Or
> use something like pine where cursoring around changes 

Re: Microsoft stores to mimic Apple's with "Guru Bars"

2009-07-25 Thread John Panarese

   Microsoft, again, demonstrating their "me too" philosophy.  The  
problem is they are not in the same position of having the hardware  
and software working together.  God, I already feel bad for any person  
hired to be a Guru.  You gotta hope that most of your traffic is X-Box  
customers.  More money MS is going to sink into a rock.

Take Care

Take Care

John Panarese

On Jul 24, 2009, at 10:20 PM, Scott Howell wrote:

> WOw, maybe Microsoft is feeling a little pressured to try emulating  
> Apple even more? This should prove quite fascinating and I assume  
> with all these PCs they plan to sell, would mean third-party deals  
> with Dell and other companies. What is interesting is if they will  
> have demos of the windows-based screen readers. :)
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> Date: July 24, 2009 9:20:00 PM EDT
>> Subject: Microsoft stores to mimic Apple's with "Guru Bars"
>> Source: AppleInsider
>>
>> A leaked presentation has exposed Microsoft's tentative plans for  
>> its retail stores -- and the high degree to which they'll imitate  
>> Apple stores, down to their layouts and even the presence of a  
>> dedicated "Guru Bar" for help.
>> Read more…
>>
>
>
> >


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Re: Safari 4.0.2

2009-07-25 Thread Dan Eickmeier

Try VO- left and right arrowing around, until you hear html content,  
and then interact?  Sounds as if you're not on the HTML content area.

On Jul 25, 2009, at 7:45 AM, Christina Athena wrote:

>
> Is anyone having difficulty with Safari 4.0.2 and Voiceover.  I can't
> the voiceover to interact with Safari.  I refresh my screen and all it
> says is blank.  I try again and all it says is blank.
>
> Can anybody help?
> >


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Re: apple garageband?

2009-07-25 Thread erik burggraaf
Hi, It is farely accessible, except for the pan controls which are the  
major hurdle.  I'm not sure why the volume should work but not the pan.

Any way...  You might want to look deeper.  My impression was that  
ILife only shipped with macbook pro, not as a part of standard  
computer lines.  So the macbook, Imac, and mini wouldn't ship with  
ILife, but the macbook pro and mac pro would.  Some one will correct  
me if I'm wrong, but better check into it just in case.

Best,

erik burggraaf
A+ sertified technician and user support consultant.
Phone: 888-255-5194
Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com

On 25-Jul-09, at 5:51 AM, a radix wrote:

> Hi everyone, I could not find too many recent reviews of this  
> program but I udnerstand its part of the ilife suit which I think is  
> included with os x.
> I have always enjoyed listening to music andin the past I played  
> piano and saxophone. Garage band seems like a nice tool tolearn  
> music on the computer sicne it includes both instruments to use with  
> an external midi keyboard an loops you can use.
> Does anyone know if it is accessible?
> Greetings, Anouk,
>
> >


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Re: Apple's much-anticipated tablet device coming early next year

2009-07-25 Thread John Panarese


 From all that I read, it will not be a phone.  It has been more  
described as a larger iPod Touch. However, Apple, as they always are,  
are saying nothing.  Additionally, every sort of speculation under the  
sun has been written about it.  In the end, as with all things Apple,  
we will know when it is released.  Knowing Apple, though, it's going  
to be something "revolutionary" as  they do not waste resources and  
such on the status quo.

Take Care

John D. Panarese
Managing Director
Technologies for the Visually Impaired, Inc.
9 Nolan Court
Hauppauge, NY 11788
Tel/Fax, (631) 724-4479
Email, t...@optonline.net
Internet, http://www.tvi-web.com

AUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTORS FOR PORTSET SYSTEMS LTD, COMPSOLUTIONS VA,  
PREMIER ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGIES, INDEX, PAPENMEIER, REPRO-TRONICS,  
DUXBURY, SEROTEK AND OTHER PRODUCTS FOR THE BLIND AND VISUALLY IMPAIRED


AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT


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Re: aim acount on mail

2009-07-25 Thread Jonathan C. Cohn

There are completely different protocols for sending versus receiving  
e-mail.

I am not familiar with AIM mail  but you need to determine if it uses  
the POP or IMAP or  some other protocol to download messages. Sending  
is almost always done with SMTP> For gmail you first have to enable  
iMap before you can use it so perhaps that is the issue for you.

Best regards,

Jon
Try using the "Connection Doctor" window found in the windows menu to  
get some idea what is going on.

Jon

On Jul 25, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:

>
> no, but I confused you :)
> that part is working fine. it's emails coming in that well, are not
> coming in. :)
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 4:17 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>
>> Hello Marie and all:
>>
>> This sounds like the evil smtp server problem (grin).
>>
>> Of course the questions you have heard all before most likely
>>
>> 1. is your smtp information correct ... the address ... proper port
>> numbers ... etc according to aim
>>
>> 2. Using the mail menus ... in particular ... the bring all accounts
>> online option in the mailbox menu ... have you checked to make sure
>> the accounts are online?
>>
>> 3. this next point might have absolutely nothing to do with this
>> though it might shed a little light on something. when you compose
>> an email ... before sending it use VO + left arrow to move to the
>> left  of the body of the message. You should hear ... from followed
>> by an email address pop up button. use VO + spacebar to click on
>> that button and see if you have other email addresses in that list.
>> If you have an aim address in that list ... select it and then move
>> to the right using VO + right arrow. you should hear it say ...
>> outgoing server. If it is not the server you think should be used
>> for the aim account use VO + spacebar to activate the pop up button
>> and see if you can find the appropriate server. If you find it ...
>> select it and then attempt to send the email.
>>
>> The reason I make that last suggestion because it will shed some
>> light as to whether or not mail is seeing things properly.
>>
>> I hope I have not confused the situation more than is necessary.
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:47 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> OK, I confuse myself often lol.
>>> I can send from the aim account in the mail app. But when I've
>>> attempted to send an email from another account to test that the
>>> account is working, it doesn't show up in mail. I checked on the web
>>> based area for aim and all the tests I did are there. They are just
>>> not landing in mail. Hope that was a little clearer. So I think
>>> there's a connection issue from the server to the mail app.
>>>
>>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:41 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>>>
 Hello Marie and all:

 I do not believe I follow you. You are using apple mail and you can
 receive email. Am I correct so far?

 The trouble is that you are having difficulty receiving email?

 I lost you when you said you can see the mail on the web. Are you
 sending email somewhere else and then attempting to pull it back
 down or are you sending an email with a cc or bcc which is not
 getting through to you?

 Not wanting to be difficult just attempting to understand.
 On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:

>
> yes. I can send mail but receiving it is a problem. I've followed
> several steps online instructions, and the email is going to the
> account, I checked on the web.
>
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:29 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>
>> Hello Marie and all:
>>
>> Are you attempting to do this in apple mail?
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send
>>> emails,
>>> but it seems to not want to download from the server.
>>> am I missing something?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>>
>> Love
>>
>> Me
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
>
>

 Take good care and I wish you enough.

 Love

 Me


>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>>
>> Love
>>
>> Me
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: Apple's much-anticipated tablet device coming early next year

2009-07-25 Thread Simon Cavendish

Dear John,

I will be following this development with great interest. I've not so  
far invested in an IPhone although I've been very very tempted. I do  
however like the idea of the technology, and I do hope that Voiceover  
will be a part of the new tablet device.

As for the IPhone, I think it is only a matter of time before I give  
in and get one. there's a rumour that the next IPhone is going to be  
dual core. So I'm waiting to see, and if this is to be true, I shall  
probably go for that.

Hope you are well. I see you regularly on the list and I continue to  
benefit from your posts.

With best wishes

Simon
On 25 Jul 2009, at 16:48, John Panarese wrote:

>
>
> From all that I read, it will not be a phone.  It has been more
> described as a larger iPod Touch. However, Apple, as they always are,
> are saying nothing.  Additionally, every sort of speculation under the
> sun has been written about it.  In the end, as with all things Apple,
> we will know when it is released.  Knowing Apple, though, it's going
> to be something "revolutionary" asthey do not waste resources and
> such on the status quo.
>
> Take Care
>
> John D. Panarese
> Managing Director
> Technologies for the Visually Impaired, Inc.
> 9 Nolan Court
> Hauppauge, NY 11788
> Tel/Fax, (631) 724-4479
> Email, t...@optonline.net
> Internet, http://www.tvi-web.com
>
> AUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTORS FOR PORTSET SYSTEMS LTD, COMPSOLUTIONS VA,
> PREMIER ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGIES, INDEX, PAPENMEIER, REPRO-TRONICS,
> DUXBURY, SEROTEK AND OTHER PRODUCTS FOR THE BLIND AND VISUALLY  
> IMPAIRED
>
>
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>
>
> >


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Re: aim acount on mail

2009-07-25 Thread Simon Cavendish

Marie,

Have you checked in the "mailbox" menu whether your account is online?  
If it is not, you won't receive any mail. I have made this mistake  
myself before.

Best wishes

Simon
On 25 Jul 2009, at 15:32, Marie Howarth wrote:

>
> yes. I can send mail but receiving it is a problem. I've followed
> several steps online instructions, and the email is going to the
> account, I checked on the web.
>
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:29 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>
>> Hello Marie and all:
>>
>> Are you attempting to do this in apple mail?
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send
>>> emails,
>>> but it seems to not want to download from the server.
>>> am I missing something?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>>
>> Love
>>
>> Me
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: Apple's much-anticipated tablet device coming early next year

2009-07-25 Thread John Panarese

  Obviously, whether VoiceOver is or is not included on this  
device is as unknown as the actual device itself.  Even so, based on  
how the progressions of developments have gone, I'd be willing to bet  
that if this Tablet becomes a reality, Apple will include VO on it.   
Again, though, we are venturing far into the realm of guessing and  
speculation.  It will be a fascinating end of the year and 2010.

Take Care

John D. Panarese
Managing Director
Technologies for the Visually Impaired, Inc.
9 Nolan Court
Hauppauge, NY 11788
Tel/Fax, (631) 724-4479
Email, t...@optonline.net
Internet, http://www.tvi-web.com

AUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTORS FOR PORTSET SYSTEMS LTD, COMPSOLUTIONS VA,  
PREMIER ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGIES, INDEX, PAPENMEIER, REPRO-TRONICS,  
DUXBURY, SEROTEK AND OTHER PRODUCTS FOR THE BLIND AND VISUALLY IMPAIRED


AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT

On Jul 25, 2009, at 12:57 PM, Simon Cavendish wrote:

>
> Dear John,
>
> I will be following this development with great interest. I've not so
> far invested in an IPhone although I've been very very tempted. I do
> however like the idea of the technology, and I do hope that Voiceover
> will be a part of the new tablet device.
>
> As for the IPhone, I think it is only a matter of time before I give
> in and get one. there's a rumour that the next IPhone is going to be
> dual core. So I'm waiting to see, and if this is to be true, I shall
> probably go for that.
>
> Hope you are well. I see you regularly on the list and I continue to
> benefit from your posts.
>
> With best wishes
>
> Simon
> On 25 Jul 2009, at 16:48, John Panarese wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> From all that I read, it will not be a phone.  It has been more
>> described as a larger iPod Touch. However, Apple, as they always are,
>> are saying nothing.  Additionally, every sort of speculation under  
>> the
>> sun has been written about it.  In the end, as with all things Apple,
>> we will know when it is released.  Knowing Apple, though, it's going
>> to be something "revolutionary" as   they do not waste resources and
>> such on the status quo.
>>
>> Take Care
>>
>> John D. Panarese
>> Managing Director
>> Technologies for the Visually Impaired, Inc.
>> 9 Nolan Court
>> Hauppauge, NY 11788
>> Tel/Fax, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, t...@optonline.net
>> Internet, http://www.tvi-web.com
>>
>> AUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTORS FOR PORTSET SYSTEMS LTD, COMPSOLUTIONS VA,
>> PREMIER ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGIES, INDEX, PAPENMEIER, REPRO-TRONICS,
>> DUXBURY, SEROTEK AND OTHER PRODUCTS FOR THE BLIND AND VISUALLY
>> IMPAIRED
>>
>>
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: aim acount on mail

2009-07-25 Thread Marie Howarth

thanks, going to look into the pop3. this imap thing is just not  
working. I got it online but it keeps saying mail busy if I try to  
move past the aim inbox. This wasn't happening when it was offline and  
still no messages.

On Jul 25, 2009, at 7:30 PM, Maxwell Ivey Jr. wrote:

>
> Hello;  If this is for an aol mmail account, they now offer pop 3
> access.  That is how i get my aol mail.  It was much easier to
> configure for sure.  Hope that helps, Max
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 9:47 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>
>>
>> OK, I confuse myself often lol.
>> I can send from the aim account in the mail app. But when I've
>> attempted to send an email from another account to test that the
>> account is working, it doesn't show up in mail. I checked on the web
>> based area for aim and all the tests I did are there. They are just
>> not landing in mail. Hope that was a little clearer. So I think
>> there's a connection issue from the server to the mail app.
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:41 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Marie and all:
>>>
>>> I do not believe I follow you. You are using apple mail and you can
>>> receive email. Am I correct so far?
>>>
>>> The trouble is that you are having difficulty receiving email?
>>>
>>> I lost you when you said you can see the mail on the web. Are you
>>> sending email somewhere else and then attempting to pull it back
>>> down or are you sending an email with a cc or bcc which is not
>>> getting through to you?
>>>
>>> Not wanting to be difficult just attempting to understand.
>>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>>>

 yes. I can send mail but receiving it is a problem. I've followed
 several steps online instructions, and the email is going to the
 account, I checked on the web.

 On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:29 PM, patrickneazer wrote:

> Hello Marie and all:
>
> Are you attempting to do this in apple mail?
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>
>>
>> has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send
>> emails,
>> but it seems to not want to download from the server.
>> am I missing something?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>
> Love
>
> Me
>
>
>>




>>>
>>> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>>>
>>> Love
>>>
>>> Me
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: aim acount on mail

2009-07-25 Thread Maxwell Ivey Jr.

Hello;  If this is for an aol mmail account, they now offer pop 3  
access.  That is how i get my aol mail.  It was much easier to  
configure for sure.  Hope that helps, Max
On Jul 25, 2009, at 9:47 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:

>
> OK, I confuse myself often lol.
> I can send from the aim account in the mail app. But when I've
> attempted to send an email from another account to test that the
> account is working, it doesn't show up in mail. I checked on the web
> based area for aim and all the tests I did are there. They are just
> not landing in mail. Hope that was a little clearer. So I think
> there's a connection issue from the server to the mail app.
>
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:41 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>
>> Hello Marie and all:
>>
>> I do not believe I follow you. You are using apple mail and you can
>> receive email. Am I correct so far?
>>
>> The trouble is that you are having difficulty receiving email?
>>
>> I lost you when you said you can see the mail on the web. Are you
>> sending email somewhere else and then attempting to pull it back
>> down or are you sending an email with a cc or bcc which is not
>> getting through to you?
>>
>> Not wanting to be difficult just attempting to understand.
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> yes. I can send mail but receiving it is a problem. I've followed
>>> several steps online instructions, and the email is going to the
>>> account, I checked on the web.
>>>
>>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:29 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>>>
 Hello Marie and all:

 Are you attempting to do this in apple mail?
 On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:

>
> has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send
> emails,
> but it seems to not want to download from the server.
> am I missing something?
>
>
>
>

 Take good care and I wish you enough.

 Love

 Me


>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>>
>> Love
>>
>> Me
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: aim acount on mail

2009-07-25 Thread Maxwell Ivey Jr.

Hello;  I try.  Let me know how it turns out.  good luck, Max
On Jul 25, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Marie Howarth wrote:

>
> thanks, going to look into the pop3. this imap thing is just not
> working. I got it online but it keeps saying mail busy if I try to
> move past the aim inbox. This wasn't happening when it was offline and
> still no messages.
>
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 7:30 PM, Maxwell Ivey Jr. wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello;  If this is for an aol mmail account, they now offer pop 3
>> access.  That is how i get my aol mail.  It was much easier to
>> configure for sure.  Hope that helps, Max
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 9:47 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> OK, I confuse myself often lol.
>>> I can send from the aim account in the mail app. But when I've
>>> attempted to send an email from another account to test that the
>>> account is working, it doesn't show up in mail. I checked on the web
>>> based area for aim and all the tests I did are there. They are just
>>> not landing in mail. Hope that was a little clearer. So I think
>>> there's a connection issue from the server to the mail app.
>>>
>>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:41 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>>>
 Hello Marie and all:

 I do not believe I follow you. You are using apple mail and you can
 receive email. Am I correct so far?

 The trouble is that you are having difficulty receiving email?

 I lost you when you said you can see the mail on the web. Are you
 sending email somewhere else and then attempting to pull it back
 down or are you sending an email with a cc or bcc which is not
 getting through to you?

 Not wanting to be difficult just attempting to understand.
 On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:

>
> yes. I can send mail but receiving it is a problem. I've followed
> several steps online instructions, and the email is going to the
> account, I checked on the web.
>
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:29 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>
>> Hello Marie and all:
>>
>> Are you attempting to do this in apple mail?
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send
>>> emails,
>>> but it seems to not want to download from the server.
>>> am I missing something?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>>
>> Love
>>
>> Me
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
>
>

 Take good care and I wish you enough.

 Love

 Me


>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: 15 inch vs 17inch

2009-07-25 Thread Scott Howell
Yes you are correct and thanks for the reminder.
On Jul 25, 2009, at 11:01 AM, Marshall Scott wrote:

> The one difference I know of is that the new 17 inch still has an  
> Express slot.
> Marsh
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 4:41 AM, Scott Howell wrote:
>
>> To the best of my knowledge yes, you can get pretty much the same  
>> stuff on the 15-inch as the 17-inch. Of course check either on the  
>> site or call Apple's sales department to verify, but I'm pretty  
>> sure. I think the difference is some items are standard on the 17  
>> that may not be on the 15 as stock, but available as upgrades on  
>> the 15.
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 6:31 AM, a radix wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, Am I right in thinking thatthe only difference between the  
>>> 15 inch and 17 inch laptops is the screen? I mean you can get the  
>>> top config on the 15 inch right?
>>> Also, i know all the laptops have the glossy display but can you  
>>> also get the matte display or can you only do this for the 17 inch?
>>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >


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Re: Apple's much-anticipated tablet device coming early next year

2009-07-25 Thread Scott Howell

John, your correct and as I thought about it, when I first heard about  
this, it comes to mind that the aim was more for video conferencing  
and it may not have a phone in it at all. That I'm not sure of, but if  
VZW roles out this new service, it does mean this would pave the way  
for the iPhone as well as the tablet and the tablet was the one thing  
VZW seemed interested in from what I read a while ago.

On Jul 25, 2009, at 11:48 AM, John Panarese wrote:

>
>
> From all that I read, it will not be a phone.  It has been more
> described as a larger iPod Touch. However, Apple, as they always are,
> are saying nothing.  Additionally, every sort of speculation under the
> sun has been written about it.  In the end, as with all things Apple,
> we will know when it is released.  Knowing Apple, though, it's going
> to be something "revolutionary" asthey do not waste resources and
> such on the status quo.
>
> Take Care
>
> John D. Panarese
> Managing Director
> Technologies for the Visually Impaired, Inc.
> 9 Nolan Court
> Hauppauge, NY 11788
> Tel/Fax, (631) 724-4479
> Email, t...@optonline.net
> Internet, http://www.tvi-web.com
>
> AUTHORIZED DISTRIBUTORS FOR PORTSET SYSTEMS LTD, COMPSOLUTIONS VA,
> PREMIER ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGIES, INDEX, PAPENMEIER, REPRO-TRONICS,
> DUXBURY, SEROTEK AND OTHER PRODUCTS FOR THE BLIND AND VISUALLY  
> IMPAIRED


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fixed it was aim acount on mail

2009-07-25 Thread Marie Howarth

just letting everyone know, I fixed my problem. just deleted it,  
started over. it's all working now. thanks for everyone's input  
though. :)
On Jul 25, 2009, at 7:30 PM, Maxwell Ivey Jr. wrote:

>
> Hello;  If this is for an aol mmail account, they now offer pop 3
> access.  That is how i get my aol mail.  It was much easier to
> configure for sure.  Hope that helps, Max
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 9:47 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>
>>
>> OK, I confuse myself often lol.
>> I can send from the aim account in the mail app. But when I've
>> attempted to send an email from another account to test that the
>> account is working, it doesn't show up in mail. I checked on the web
>> based area for aim and all the tests I did are there. They are just
>> not landing in mail. Hope that was a little clearer. So I think
>> there's a connection issue from the server to the mail app.
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:41 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Marie and all:
>>>
>>> I do not believe I follow you. You are using apple mail and you can
>>> receive email. Am I correct so far?
>>>
>>> The trouble is that you are having difficulty receiving email?
>>>
>>> I lost you when you said you can see the mail on the web. Are you
>>> sending email somewhere else and then attempting to pull it back
>>> down or are you sending an email with a cc or bcc which is not
>>> getting through to you?
>>>
>>> Not wanting to be difficult just attempting to understand.
>>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>>>

 yes. I can send mail but receiving it is a problem. I've followed
 several steps online instructions, and the email is going to the
 account, I checked on the web.

 On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:29 PM, patrickneazer wrote:

> Hello Marie and all:
>
> Are you attempting to do this in apple mail?
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>
>>
>> has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send
>> emails,
>> but it seems to not want to download from the server.
>> am I missing something?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>
> Love
>
> Me
>
>
>>




>>>
>>> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>>>
>>> Love
>>>
>>> Me
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >


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Re: aim acount on mail

2009-07-25 Thread patrickneazer
Hello Marie and all:

Well, if they are emails coming in then are you sure that the account  
is set to Imap as opposed to pop and both the address and ports are  
correct?

This has probably already been answered and you are probably having a  
great time already with incoming mail (smile)
On Jul 25, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:

>
> no, but I confused you :)
> that part is working fine. it's emails coming in that well, are not
> coming in. :)
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 4:17 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>
>> Hello Marie and all:
>>
>> This sounds like the evil smtp server problem (grin).
>>
>> Of course the questions you have heard all before most likely
>>
>> 1. is your smtp information correct ... the address ... proper port
>> numbers ... etc according to aim
>>
>> 2. Using the mail menus ... in particular ... the bring all accounts
>> online option in the mailbox menu ... have you checked to make sure
>> the accounts are online?
>>
>> 3. this next point might have absolutely nothing to do with this
>> though it might shed a little light on something. when you compose
>> an email ... before sending it use VO + left arrow to move to the
>> left  of the body of the message. You should hear ... from followed
>> by an email address pop up button. use VO + spacebar to click on
>> that button and see if you have other email addresses in that list.
>> If you have an aim address in that list ... select it and then move
>> to the right using VO + right arrow. you should hear it say ...
>> outgoing server. If it is not the server you think should be used
>> for the aim account use VO + spacebar to activate the pop up button
>> and see if you can find the appropriate server. If you find it ...
>> select it and then attempt to send the email.
>>
>> The reason I make that last suggestion because it will shed some
>> light as to whether or not mail is seeing things properly.
>>
>> I hope I have not confused the situation more than is necessary.
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:47 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> OK, I confuse myself often lol.
>>> I can send from the aim account in the mail app. But when I've
>>> attempted to send an email from another account to test that the
>>> account is working, it doesn't show up in mail. I checked on the web
>>> based area for aim and all the tests I did are there. They are just
>>> not landing in mail. Hope that was a little clearer. So I think
>>> there's a connection issue from the server to the mail app.
>>>
>>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:41 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>>>
 Hello Marie and all:

 I do not believe I follow you. You are using apple mail and you can
 receive email. Am I correct so far?

 The trouble is that you are having difficulty receiving email?

 I lost you when you said you can see the mail on the web. Are you
 sending email somewhere else and then attempting to pull it back
 down or are you sending an email with a cc or bcc which is not
 getting through to you?

 Not wanting to be difficult just attempting to understand.
 On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:

>
> yes. I can send mail but receiving it is a problem. I've followed
> several steps online instructions, and the email is going to the
> account, I checked on the web.
>
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 3:29 PM, patrickneazer wrote:
>
>> Hello Marie and all:
>>
>> Are you attempting to do this in apple mail?
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Marie Howarth wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> has anyone set up an imap aim account with success? I can send
>>> emails,
>>> but it seems to not want to download from the server.
>>> am I missing something?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>>
>> Love
>>
>> Me
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
>
>

 Take good care and I wish you enough.

 Love

 Me


>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Take good care and I wish you enough.
>>
>> Love
>>
>> Me
>>
>>
>>>
>
>
> >

Take good care and I wish you enough.

Love

Me


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Improving re-arranging items in table views on OS X

2009-07-25 Thread Martin Pilkington

Hi All,

I haven't posted for a while so for those who don't remember me, my  
name is Martin and I'm a Mac software developer. I'm currently having  
a problem with making one of my applications accessible, but in an  
easy to use way. There is a lot of drag & drop functionality in my  
application. Some of it is easy, such as using copy and paste to get  
items from the library to the collections (like with putting songs  
into playlists in iTunes). However, some of it is hard, such as re- 
arranging items. You can do copy/cut and paste but this is a bit  
awkward. I've also been pointed to how to do drag & drop with voice  
over but to me that seems quite tedious.

I believe I have a solution that seems to me like it would be a lot  
simpler, but I wanted to get the opinion of some blind users about  
whether they would find it more useful. The solution is that if you  
hold down the option key and press the up or down arrow keys, it will  
move the selected table rows up or down one place. To me it seems to  
be a better way to re-arrange items with a keyboard for all users, but  
the main aim of it is to improve accessibility. I will end up open  
sourcing any solution and pushing for other developers to include it  
in their applications so hopefully it can become some sort of a  
standard.

Any thoughts anyone has would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Martin

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MARKERS IN AMADEUS?

2009-07-25 Thread erik burggraaf

HI GUYS,  CAN SOME ONE TELL ME REALLY QUICKLY HOW TO SET UP MARKERS IN  
AMADEUS?  WE USED TO CALL THEM CUE POINTS IN GOLD WAVE.  BASICLY I  
WANT TO CHOP UP A WAVE FILE ALONG SECTOR BOUNDARIES SUTABLE FOR  
BURNING TO A CD.  I SEE ALL THE OPTIONS TO DO WHAT I WANT BUT THEY ARE  
ALL GREYED OUT.  I HAVE MY FILE OPEN AND IT PLAYS JUST FINE.  I WENT  
TO GENERATE MARKERS BUT IT ONLY HAD OPTIONS TO PUT THEM IN AT REGULAR  
INTERVALS, OR TO TRY TO PUT THEM IN BASED ON LEVELS OF SILENCE IN THE  
FILE.  I AM CHOPPING UP A CONSERT RECORDING, SO I NEED TO PUT THEM IN  
MANUALLY.

ANY HELP APPRECIATED AS ALWAYS.

BEST,


erik burggraaf
A+ sertified technician and user support consultant.
Phone: 888-255-5194
Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com


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Re: Improving re-arranging items in table views on OS X

2009-07-25 Thread Anne Robertson

Hello Martin,

On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote:
> I'm currently having
> a problem with making one of my applications accessible, but in an
> easy to use way. There is a lot of drag & drop functionality in my
> application. Some of it is easy, such as using copy and paste to get
> items from the library to the collections (like with putting songs
> into playlists in iTunes). However, some of it is hard, such as re-
> arranging items. You can do copy/cut and paste but this is a bit
> awkward. I've also been pointed to how to do drag & drop with voice
> over but to me that seems quite tedious.
>
> I believe I have a solution that seems to me like it would be a lot
> simpler, but I wanted to get the opinion of some blind users about
> whether they would find it more useful. The solution is that if you
> hold down the option key and press the up or down arrow keys, it will
> move the selected table rows up or down one place. To me it seems to
> be a better way to re-arrange items with a keyboard for all users, but
> the main aim of it is to improve accessibility.
It's similar to moving items around in the Dock, so I think it would  
be fine.

Cheers,

Anne


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Re: Improving re-arranging items in table views on OS X

2009-07-25 Thread Scott Howell

Yes, that will work just fine.
On Jul 25, 2009, at 4:27 PM, Martin Pilkington wrote:

>
> Hi All,
>
> I haven't posted for a while so for those who don't remember me, my
> name is Martin and I'm a Mac software developer. I'm currently having
> a problem with making one of my applications accessible, but in an
> easy to use way. There is a lot of drag & drop functionality in my
> application. Some of it is easy, such as using copy and paste to get
> items from the library to the collections (like with putting songs
> into playlists in iTunes). However, some of it is hard, such as re-
> arranging items. You can do copy/cut and paste but this is a bit
> awkward. I've also been pointed to how to do drag & drop with voice
> over but to me that seems quite tedious.
>
> I believe I have a solution that seems to me like it would be a lot
> simpler, but I wanted to get the opinion of some blind users about
> whether they would find it more useful. The solution is that if you
> hold down the option key and press the up or down arrow keys, it will
> move the selected table rows up or down one place. To me it seems to
> be a better way to re-arrange items with a keyboard for all users, but
> the main aim of it is to improve accessibility. I will end up open
> sourcing any solution and pushing for other developers to include it
> in their applications so hopefully it can become some sort of a
> standard.
>
> Any thoughts anyone has would be much appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Martin
>
> >


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Re: apple garageband?

2009-07-25 Thread Woody Anna Dresner

Hi,

The Mac Mini I bought a month ago came with Garage Band, and I didn't  
pay extra for it so I guess it's standard. I haven't had a chance to  
try it out yet, though, so I can't comment on its accessibility.

Best,
Anna


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iphone cal ending

2009-07-25 Thread Simon Fogarty

Hi folks.

 Can someone please tell me how, while using VO on my iphone, ow do I turn
off a call?

 I can make one not a probl;em but I'm having tourble ending the  call when
I want. 


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Re: iphone cal ending

2009-07-25 Thread Scott Bresnahan

Hi, Simon,

The easiest thing to do in my opinion is hit the wake/sleep button 
toend a call.

--Scott



>   Hi folks.
>
>  Can someone please tell me how, while using VO on my iphone, ow do I turn
>off a call?
>
>  I can make one not a probl;em but I'm having tourble ending the  call when
>I want.
>
>
>
-- 
--Scott

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Re: iphone cal ending

2009-07-25 Thread patrickneazer
Hello Simon and all:

There are a few ways to end a call.

1. Double tap the screen with two fingers similar to the way you would  
double tap the phone when starting or stopping a song in itunes.  
remember when double tapping the phone to keep your fingers apart a  
little or else the phone might think you have one really large finger.  
No, I am not kidding about that last point

2. When the call is over you can press the lock screen button on the  
top of the phone. This does lock the screen and you will have to  
unlock it again to use the features of the phone.

Hopefully this information is of some use to you. Let us know.
On Jul 25, 2009, at 8:30 PM, Simon Fogarty wrote:

>
>   Hi folks.
>
> Can someone please tell me how, while using VO on my iphone, ow do I  
> turn
> off a call?
>
> I can make one not a probl;em but I'm having tourble ending the   
> call when
> I want.
>
>
> >

Take good care and I wish you enough.

Love

Me


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RE: Typing on the IPhone and using its GPS

2009-07-25 Thread Simon Fogarty
Dam, I wish had seen this msg yesterday when I was hunting for the call end
button.

 

I've gotta find a good iphone accessibility tutorial.

Has anyone got one on line that I missed the posting alert of, that they can
point me towards 

 

Thanks 

 

simon

 

 

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Blouch
Sent: Friday, 24 July 2009 6:16 a.m.
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Typing on the IPhone and using its GPS

 

I found that my double-tap wasn't very accurate. I often ended up double
tapping a nearby key or tapping once on one key and the second on another
key. The 'split tap' seemed to work much better.

Another thing that has worked well is the flick left and right through
elements on the screen. For example, in Safari to the right of the URL entry
is a very small clear button. It was hard to impossible to tap it to clear
out the URL and type in a new one. With focus in the URL field a single
flick right brought focus to the clear button and then a double-tap would
clear out the entry field. Much easier that way.

Oh, one other gesture I didn't know about initially. Doing a two-finger
double tap when the phone rings will answer it while a two-finger double tap
during a call will hang up. Much easier that trying to hunt for the answer
and end call buttons.

CB

william lomas wrote: 

a friend of mine said he can find a key and tap it twice once he has  
found it to insert it
 
On 20 Jul 2009, at 22:44, Ryan Mann wrote:
 
  

Is your typing slower on the Iphone than on the mac?  It seems like it
would be since you're just using two fingers.
 
On Jul 20, 2009, at 5:29 PM, Chris Blouch wrote:
 


I've heard that once people get good at it you hold a key on the left
side of the virtual keyboard and tap with a finger on the right hand
or
vice versa. For now I end up hunting with one finger and tapping with
another for every key. Like VO on the Mac I'm finding many iPhone  
apps
are fairly accessible out of the box but with unlabeled buttons or
form
fields here and there. Pleasantly surprising since many of the apps
predate VO on the iPhone.
 
CB
 
Simon Fogarty wrote:
  

I haven't tried the gps  but the typing feature got me for a start.
You move / put one finger on the character you want and then tap
the screen
with another and the character is typed to the screen.
 
I found it really easy after got the fingers working together.
 
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James & Nash
Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2009 7:28 a.m.
To: Mac visionaries
Subject: Typing on the IPhone and using its GPS
 
 
Hi everyone,
 
How do the blind users on this list find typing on the IPhone when
they
can't see the screen? How is it achieved?
 
Also, how are IPhone users finding the GPS? Is it accurate? Is it
usable?
 
Thank you for any info.
 
Take care
 
James
 
 
 
 


 


 
 
 
  



 


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RE: introduction and a question

2009-07-25 Thread Simon Fogarty

Yeah I crashed a work machine 4 times when setting up jaws  in a parallel
environment.

 Thank god for snapshots.



-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Blouch
Sent: Friday, 24 July 2009 6:19 a.m.
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: introduction and a question


The mail archive is your friend as many of the snags you'll run into 
have been noted and often solved on this list in the recent past. That 
said, Jaws video intercept driver on Parallels is still not fixed. 
Apparently Parallels uses its own custom video driver that doesn't play 
well with the Jaws video intercept. If you don't install that Jaws will 
launch and work but there are lots of things it won't do well. I didn't 
experiment too much since running without the video intercept is not the 
normal setup but I know Outlook was pretty much inaccessible. Just to 
make sure I installed Jaws 10.0.1154 on Parallels 4.0.3844 which are 
both the latest with no improvement. After the Jaws install reboot 
Windows crashes while loading and the only fix is to boot into "Last 
Known Good Configuration" and then re-install parallels tools. It must 
be a fundamental flaw in the parallels video emulator because this bug 
has existed for some time. As was previously mentioned, most Jaws users 
have moved to Fusion or VirtualBox because of this bug.

CB

Esther wrote:
> Hello Anna,
>
> Welcome to the list.  I'm not sure that there are many list member  
> with current experience running Parallels, and I recall from earlier  
> discussions that users found problems with the Video intercept  
> handling, at least in earlier versions of Parallels, that were not  
> present in other virtualizations. A quick search of the archives  
> brought up this comment, for example:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/discuss%40macvisionaries.com/msg36706.html
> (Parallels and JAWS Update)
>
> 
> I noticed there have been some updates to Parallels and to Jaws  
> recently so I thought I'd give it another whirl. Pretty much the same  
> problem persists where the Jaws video intercept hoses the video driver  
> in Parallels. VMWare and Sun's Virtual Box do not seem to have this  
> issue.
> 
>
> That was quite a while ago, but the most recent comments I've heard  
> about Parallels as of a month ago from another list indicate that  
> there are still serious accessibility problems, so most users seem to  
> have opted either for installing Bootcamp or using VMWare's Fusion.
>
> The closest discussion suggestion I've heard that might help your case  
> is to try installing Window Eyes in the event that this correctly  
> handles the installation of the Video Intercept driver.
>
> See for example:
>
>
http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries%40googlegroups.com/msg02509.html
>
> I don't have any experience with this myself, but others may be able  
> to provide suggestions if you specify the machine you're using and the  
> version of JAWS.
>
> Hope your questions can be answered.  I've enjoyed reading some of  
> your posts on the portable-player list.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Esther
>
>
>
> >
>   



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RE: Merging duplicate contacts in Address Book

2009-07-25 Thread Simon Fogarty

Yeah the same thing happened on my pc 

Just had to delete the problem and 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Hole
Sent: Friday, 24 July 2009 6:20 a.m.
To: MacVisionaries
Subject: Merging duplicate contacts in Address Book


Hello folks.
Have anyone of you found an application that merges duplicate contacts 
in Address Book on the Mac?
Hope someone have...My addressbook is full of duplicates that I have to 
remove :(
They were added when I synced my Nokia N82 with the Mac. :(

Kind regards David



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Re: Improving re-arranging items in table views on OS X

2009-07-25 Thread Woody Anna Dresner

Hi Martin,

I just bought a Mac and joined this list, and I'm so excited to get a  
question like this from a software developer. How wonderful to be  
asked what would work. I think using Option and the Up and Down arrow  
keys is a great idea!

Best,
Anna


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Re: tables on websites

2009-07-25 Thread Woody Anna Dresner

Hi Jon and all who responded,

Thanks so much for suggesting group navigation. You're right - it  
works wonderfully in this situation. I agree with whoever suggested a  
keystroke for changing between group and DOM navigation. I will  
definitely browse with VoiceOver Preferences open for a while so I can  
easily switch between the two modes and use the one that works best in  
a given situation.

Best,
Anna


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Re: selecting text you are interacting with

2009-07-25 Thread Woody Anna Dresner

Hi Danny and all who helped with this one,

Thanks so much. This works well.

Best,
Ana


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Re: apple garageband?

2009-07-25 Thread Dan Eickmeier
Hi Erik, pretty sure that  the iLife suite, ships with all Macs.
On Jul 25, 2009, at 12:23 PM, erik burggraaf wrote:

> Hi, It is farely accessible, except for the pan controls which are  
> the major hurdle.  I'm not sure why the volume should work but not  
> the pan.
>
> Any way...  You might want to look deeper.  My impression was that  
> ILife only shipped with macbook pro, not as a part of standard  
> computer lines.  So the macbook, Imac, and mini wouldn't ship with  
> ILife, but the macbook pro and mac pro would.  Some one will correct  
> me if I'm wrong, but better check into it just in case.
>
> Best,
>
> erik burggraaf
> A+ sertified technician and user support consultant.
> Phone: 888-255-5194
> Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com
>
> On 25-Jul-09, at 5:51 AM, a radix wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone, I could not find too many recent reviews of this  
>> program but I udnerstand its part of the ilife suit which I think  
>> is included with os x.
>> I have always enjoyed listening to music andin the past I played  
>> piano and saxophone. Garage band seems like a nice tool tolearn  
>> music on the computer sicne it includes both instruments to use  
>> with an external midi keyboard an loops you can use.
>> Does anyone know if it is accessible?
>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >


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Re: tables on websites

2009-07-25 Thread william lomas

hopefuly in snowleopard that will be implemented

On 26 Jul 2009, at 04:22, Woody Anna Dresner wrote:

>
> Hi Jon and all who responded,
>
> Thanks so much for suggesting group navigation. You're right - it
> works wonderfully in this situation. I agree with whoever suggested a
> keystroke for changing between group and DOM navigation. I will
> definitely browse with VoiceOver Preferences open for a while so I can
> easily switch between the two modes and use the one that works best in
> a given situation.
>
> Best,
> Anna
>
>
> >


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Advice needed on creating a utility installer

2009-07-25 Thread Doug Lee

I have a utility, written in Python, that I think a number of blind
Mac Skype users might want to use.  The problem is, it's currently
rather complex to install:  It requires the Skype4Py module, which can
be had from the Skype Developer Zone web site.  It's command-line
based and so tends to require you to start the Terminal to use it.  It
is also something I think people will want to have started
automatically, either at boot time or when Skype is launched.  The
utility has several features, but perhaps most interesting to most
people here are its ability to make the Mac produce sounds indicating
online statuses of contacts as you arrow through the contact list, and
its provision of some shortcut commands for common tasks, like "pvm"
to read the oldest remaining unplayed voicemail.

Because of the installation complexity problem, the utility is not
really ready for public consumption at this point.  However, I welcome
advice on how to create an easy-to-use installation system for this
thing.  I'm not sure if it should be a .dmg, a .pkg, or what.  I do
want the user to have easy ways to do at least the following though:
Install the utility, update the utility, install and update Skype4Py,
launch the utility, arrange for auto launch of the utility, and remove
the utility and possibly Skype4Py.  I'm wondering if a .dmg containing
both the utility and Skype4Py would work, but I don't know how one
makes a .dmg that just installs normally, or one whose application can
be auto-launched.

Thanks for any assistance.


-- 
Doug Lee d...@dlee.orghttp://www.dlee.org
SSB BART Group   doug@ssbbartgroup.com   http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
Snowmen fall from heaven, unassembled.
--anon

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