Re: A spacing problem

[Robert Blackstone]

Hi Ben,
Thanks for your quick response.
And my apologies for my late reaction.

I would have included an MWE if I had believed that I could somehow demonstrate 
the problem with it, but I'm convinced that it is sort of a mass action inside 
my score.

I could perhaps have sent you the complete score but I don’t think that’s a 
good idea. To give some impression: here is a brief description:  Upper staff a 
vocal Voice with Lyrics, Lower staff a Bass Voice with BC-figures.  \time 4/4 
with a few changes to 8/4. Somewhere  down the stretch of it I had to add for 
two adjacent bars a third voice in the bass line. The score has 82 bars in four 
sections, the first three ending with a double bar-line, the final one with the 
usual  \bar “|.” .

After sending my question to the list I continued my trouble-shooting and I 
succeeded in getting rid of 3 of my 4 problem-spots by introducing and/or some 
line breaks.
The remaining one has resisted my efforts till now.

Best regards,
Robert Blackstone 

> On 4 Jul 2019, at 13:58 , Ben  > wrote:
> 
> On 7/4/2019 7:45 AM, Robert Blackstone wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> Presently I’m vainly struggling with a nasty spacing problem: an empty 
>> fragment of a new bar sticking out of the last bar of a system. 
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> Presently I’m vainly struggling with a nasty spacing problem: an empty 
>> fragment of a new bar sticking out of the last bar of a system. 
>> In the piece I’ve been working on it happens 4 times. (See screenshots) 
>> I have carefully checked the note durations in each bar and there seems to 
>> be nothing wrong with any of them.
>> 
>> What can I do to avoid or remedy this?
>> 
>> I’ll be very grateful for any advice.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Robert Blackstone 
>> 
>> > .png>
>> 
>> 
>> NB in the third screenshot with the text “ohi-me v’apri”, the  b-flat in the 
>> bass belongs to a separate voice. (<< {\stemDown as,2 des2 }  \\ {s2. 
>> \stemUp bes4  } >> |%P2V1-30}
>> 
> 
> Hi Robert,
> 
> I noticed you included some inline images in your email. Would it be possible 
> for you to share some of your code so we can see what you have going on? 
> Maybe a tiny example? 
> It's not easy to tell from just the images. 
> Thanks!
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Re: A spacing problem

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Robert, I know this is like computer phone support asking you if the
modem is plugged in and turned out, but are you using barchecks on every
bar? Saves a multitude of problems.

May I make the polite suggestion that it is very often, in my experience,
the act of making an MWE, even if difficult, that many times resolves the
problem for you? Or at least a binary chop approach?

You could mail me the score if it is not secret and I will look at it for
you also.


Andrew
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Re: Jazz Chord Symbols (as new font - NOT notation font)

[Marco Baumgartner]

Thanks Aaron for your help!


\version "2.18.2" % tested on lilybin.org
\markup \roman "fi"


That's what I'm going to test next. Unfortunately, I'm facing some
installation issues. I somehow messed up the original package,
while trying to install a newer unstable version. Now I can't re-install
2.18.2 from Debian repository as it's missing. Let me figure this out. I'll
let you know,
when I'm back with a running version and tested the above code.

***
www.marcobaumgartner.com


On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 7:33 PM Aaron Hill  wrote:

> On 2019-07-04 6:29 am, Marco Baumgartner wrote:
> > Although my font (otf) HAS ligatures (and show up if the font is used
> > on my
> > system in other programs) - it
> > doesn't show ANY ligatures in lilypond... Can't make it work as of now.
> >
> > I searched about it, and stumbled across people saying, that this was
> > like
> > an official bug. Others saying,
> > that it should be all working instead...
>
> Well, I would put my vote on the side of "should be working".  Consider
> the following simple example:
>
> 
> \version "2.18.2" % tested on lilybin.org
> \markup \roman "fi"
> 
>
> You *should* get the "fi" as a ligature in the output.  It would be good
> to verify this on your system.  Then, use \override #'(font-name . "Your
> custom font") and test your font.
>
> > I'm using 2.18.2 on Debian Linux with Frescobaldi.
> > And: The ligatures I'm talking about are not standard ligatures (tied
> > to a
> > specific language), they're everything but standard.
> > But like I said, a normal Text-Editor (and even used on the web
> > via @font-face) can render the ligatures just fine.
>
> This may have more to do with Pango than LilyPond, since it is Pango
> that is the one dealing with fonts.  If there is something wrong with
> how it handles OpenType ligatures, that could certainly end up affecting
> what you see in LilyPond.
>
> > Any tips on:
> > - where to install the font (not so sure about that anymore...)
>
> You can install fonts wherever your fontconfig is set up to load them.
> For instance, I have my custom fonts installed in my home directory:
>
>~/.local/share/fonts
>
> I did this as to not conflict with any font packages that are normally
> written to /usr/local/share/fonts.
>
> > - how to encode the font in a way that lilypond recognizes ligatures
>
> Unsure, but as I indicated above, I think this is on the Pango side, not
> LilyPond.
>
> > - just pointing out, that I'm stupid (that would be at least a valid
> > excuse) :-)
>
> If I did that, I would have more fingers pointing back at myself.  You
> would not have to dig too far in the mailing list archive to find proof
> of my lapses into incompetence.
>
>
> -- Aaron Hill
>
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Re: Jazz Chord Symbols (as new font - NOT notation font)

[Marco Baumgartner]

Hi Tyler,
it was from apt package. Which version would you recommend? I need to
re-install anyway. I'm on Debian Linux, but I'm not a very skilled user.
Normally I install everything with apt-get install - only when I really
have to, I do (or try) otherwise.

Marco

***
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On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 7:45 PM Tyler Mitchell  wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 04, 2019 at 03:29:00PM +0200, Marco Baumgartner wrote:
> > Although my font (otf) HAS ligatures (and show up if the font is
> > used on my system in other programs) - it doesn't show ANY
> > ligatures in lilypond... Can't make it work as of now.
> >
> > I'm using 2.18.2 on Debian Linux with Frescobaldi.
>
> Count me as one who says that ligatures are absolutely essential.
> (I couldn't say whether it's a bug in LilyPond or not, but I
> couldn't work without them.)
>
> I've had this problem on OS X (as it then was). I have both the
> official LilyPond binary installed in /Applications and a homebrew
> version (can't remember whether bottled or compiled) installed in
> /usr/local and one supports ligatures and one does not. (I'm away
> from home at the moment and don't have access to that computer, so
> I can't check which is which.)
>
> Where did you obtain the LilyPond install from -- was it from apt
> package or from the official distribution at lilypond.org?
>
> Best regards,
> Tyler
>
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Re: A spacing problem

[Robert Blackstone]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for your comment and advice.

Am I using barchecks on every bar? Yes, I do.  Every bar in my score ends with 
| followed by the bar-number . (For example : g’1 |%P1V1-5) 

BTW, I use TeXShop for my input and I am very happy with it. For several 
reasons I never liked Frescobaldi. TeXShop  accepts my little tricks and It is 
more forgiving than Frescobaldi. As an example, the present “problem-score” is 
compiled by TeXShop in a few seconds. Frescobaldi does not compile it at all 
for some error that I don’t understand and which TeXShop ignores. 

In the present case the console in TeXShop gives a lot of warnings about 
missing barchecks but these warnings exclusively concern the lyrics. They don’t 
affect the compilation of the score.
When I comment out the Lyrics Voice in the score the problem is still there, in 
one bar only (I could solve the three others by adding and/or displacing line 
breaks.)  

Anyway, thanks again for your interest in my problem.

Best regards,
Robert Blackstone 





> On 5 Jul 2019, at 10:22 , Andrew Bernard  wrote:
> 
> Hi Robert, I know this is like computer phone support asking you if the modem 
> is plugged in and turned out, but are you using barchecks on every bar? Saves 
> a multitude of problems.
> 
> May I make the polite suggestion that it is very often, in my experience, the 
> act of making an MWE, even if difficult, that many times resolves the problem 
> for you? Or at least a binary chop approach?
> 
> You could mail me the score if it is not secret and I will look at it for you 
> also.
> 
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 


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Re: Jazz Chord Symbols (as new font - NOT notation font)

[Tyler Mitchell]

On Fri, Jul 05, 2019 at 12:41:38PM +0200, Marco Baumgartner wrote:
> Hi Tyler,
> it was from apt package. Which version would you recommend? I need to
> re-install anyway. I'm on Debian Linux, but I'm not a very skilled user.
> Normally I install everything with apt-get install - only when I really
> have to, I do (or try) otherwise.

The note on the download page says:

"Many distributions include LilyPond within their normal
package repositories that are often significantly older than the
current stable version. While these older packages may be easier to
install, we strongly recommend that you use our generic packages."

I personally have never used LilyPond on Linux, only on Windows and
macOS, so I'm not sure which is best. But if you're not getting
ligatures with the one from apt, I'd try the LilyPond official one
and see how you fare.

Also it might be worth trying 2.19.83; you could possibly install
both 2.18.2 and 2.19.83 to different directories and have both
available to test.

Best regards,
Tyler

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Re: A spacing problem

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Robert,

That's really interesting. You use a TeX editor for lilypond, presumably
for syntax highlighting and checking? I had some vague idea lilypond was
loosely based on TeX in the original days, but I did not think it is
compatible now. I though the '\' notation was the only surviving
archaeological DNA fragment.

I use vim with point and click in Ubuntu. When you get it all up and
running and add snippet packages and so on, it is a pleasure to use. As a
long time emacs user, I find the present emacs lilypond mode is very buggy
and effectively unusable, for me anyway, and messes up indenting quite
badly. A pity. Although I have used emacs forever, I have never spent time
coding emacs, so it's not really my area to fix it. With a little love from
some kind developer, that would also e a very good environment.

On your point re compiling - Frescobaldi is not compiling, it's lilypond.
So that is a curious thing. Perhaps you lilypond command settings in
Frescobaldi are different to what you set up in TeXShop.

Andrew


On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 at 23:00, Robert Blackstone 
wrote:

>
> BTW, I use TeXShop for my input and I am very happy with it. For several
> reasons I never liked Frescobaldi. TeXShop  accepts my little tricks and It
> is more forgiving than Frescobaldi. As an example, the present
> “problem-score” is compiled by TeXShop in a few seconds. Frescobaldi does
> not compile it at all for some error that I don’t understand and which
> TeXShop ignores.
>
>
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Re: Jazz Chord Symbols (as new font - NOT notation font)

[Marco Baumgartner]

the output of:

\markup \roman "fi"

is in the attachment. It does not produce the ligatures - both in standard
and a testing font of mine containing ligatures (otf).
In the word "leer", the letter e and r should be connected.

I stumbled over this (2015):
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Broken-ligatures-in-recent-LilyPond-versions-td171760.html

It's said, that as of 2.18.2 and newer, ligatures are broken in lilypond.
Doesn't seem to be the case for everybody though...

I've updatet my system, running Debian Stretch 9.9 now.
Lilypond is no longer in the standard-repository in this updated version,
so I've installed the generic package "2.18.2" from lilypond.org.


***
www.marcobaumgartner.com


On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 12:35 PM Marco Baumgartner 
wrote:

> Thanks Aaron for your help!
>
> 
> \version "2.18.2" % tested on lilybin.org
> \markup \roman "fi"
> 
>
> That's what I'm going to test next. Unfortunately, I'm facing some
> installation issues. I somehow messed up the original package,
> while trying to install a newer unstable version. Now I can't re-install
> 2.18.2 from Debian repository as it's missing. Let me figure this out. I'll
> let you know,
> when I'm back with a running version and tested the above code.
>
> ***
> www.marcobaumgartner.com
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 7:33 PM Aaron Hill 
> wrote:
>
>> On 2019-07-04 6:29 am, Marco Baumgartner wrote:
>> > Although my font (otf) HAS ligatures (and show up if the font is used
>> > on my
>> > system in other programs) - it
>> > doesn't show ANY ligatures in lilypond... Can't make it work as of now.
>> >
>> > I searched about it, and stumbled across people saying, that this was
>> > like
>> > an official bug. Others saying,
>> > that it should be all working instead...
>>
>> Well, I would put my vote on the side of "should be working".  Consider
>> the following simple example:
>>
>> 
>> \version "2.18.2" % tested on lilybin.org
>> \markup \roman "fi"
>> 
>>
>> You *should* get the "fi" as a ligature in the output.  It would be good
>> to verify this on your system.  Then, use \override #'(font-name . "Your
>> custom font") and test your font.
>>
>> > I'm using 2.18.2 on Debian Linux with Frescobaldi.
>> > And: The ligatures I'm talking about are not standard ligatures (tied
>> > to a
>> > specific language), they're everything but standard.
>> > But like I said, a normal Text-Editor (and even used on the web
>> > via @font-face) can render the ligatures just fine.
>>
>> This may have more to do with Pango than LilyPond, since it is Pango
>> that is the one dealing with fonts.  If there is something wrong with
>> how it handles OpenType ligatures, that could certainly end up affecting
>> what you see in LilyPond.
>>
>> > Any tips on:
>> > - where to install the font (not so sure about that anymore...)
>>
>> You can install fonts wherever your fontconfig is set up to load them.
>> For instance, I have my custom fonts installed in my home directory:
>>
>>~/.local/share/fonts
>>
>> I did this as to not conflict with any font packages that are normally
>> written to /usr/local/share/fonts.
>>
>> > - how to encode the font in a way that lilypond recognizes ligatures
>>
>> Unsure, but as I indicated above, I think this is on the Pango side, not
>> LilyPond.
>>
>> > - just pointing out, that I'm stupid (that would be at least a valid
>> > excuse) :-)
>>
>> If I did that, I would have more fingers pointing back at myself.  You
>> would not have to dig too far in the mailing list archive to find proof
>> of my lapses into incompetence.
>>
>>
>> -- Aaron Hill
>>
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>> lilypond-user@gnu.org
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>>
>
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Re: Grace note beams won't hide correctly

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Ben,

For the slash, may I commend to you my very well debugged and mature slash
functions in the openlilylib library? They are quite general anbd have lots
of parameters, If you don't have openlilylib already installed, it is not
daunting as people seem to think. It's easy to install and use. You can
pick the modules you need.

Not to disparage the slash code in this thread, but a bit of reinventing a
wheel here!

I suppose a problem with openlilylib is that it is not well known what it
contains. Not sure how we solve that problem.

Andrew
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Re: Jazz Chord Symbols (as new font - NOT notation font)

[Aaron Hill]

On 2019-07-05 5:34 pm, Marco Baumgartner wrote:

the output of:

\markup \roman "fi"

is in the attachment. It does not produce the ligatures - both in 
standard

and a testing font of mine containing ligatures (otf).
In the word "leer", the letter e and r should be connected.

I stumbled over this (2015):
http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Broken-ligatures-in-recent-LilyPond-versions-td171760.html

It's said, that as of 2.18.2 and newer, ligatures are broken in 
lilypond.

Doesn't seem to be the case for everybody though...

I've updatet my system, running Debian Stretch 9.9 now.
Lilypond is no longer in the standard-repository in this updated 
version,

so I've installed the generic package "2.18.2" from lilypond.org.


Firstly, I said lilybin.org by mistake.  I meant of course lilybin.com.

Secondly, I goofed in my testing.  I had thought I was on stable 2.18.2 
when I saw the ligature working.  But that is wrong.  It was when 
lilybin.com was using unstable 2.19.48 that the ligatures appear to 
work.  And for comparison, the following also works on my machine 
running 2.19.82:



\version "2.19"
\paper { #(include-special-characters) }
\markup \fontsize #12 \roman "fi ffi fl"
\markup \fontsize #12 \roman { "f‌i f‌f‌i f‌l" }


At this point, 2.18.2 is pretty old when compared to all the updates 
pending next stable release.  So it would definitely be worth seeing if 
you can move up to the latest bits.


But if you have to stick to 2.18.2, then ligatures are not going to work 
as expected due to problems with the older version of Pango it would 
seem.


My apologies for leading you down a bad path.


-- Aaron Hill

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More font ligatures

[Vaughan McAlley]

Elam Rotam, of Early Music Sources fame, has created a font that recreates
16th century typesetting. It could be useful for doing quick, good looking
incipits:

https://www.earlymusicsources.com/more/font-serenissima

https://youtu.be/HH1oUc4E1CA

The one issue is that it relies heavily on font ligatures. I'll have to try
it on 2.19.83.

Vaughan
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Re: Jazz Chord Symbols (as new font - NOT notation font)

[Marco Baumgartner]

Hi Aaron,

thanks. No problem, nothing bad happened so far.
Didn't know about lilybin - that's interesting news to me!

First time I'm ever seeing some ligatures in a font is running:

\version "2.19.2"
\markup \roman "fi"

with the unstable version 2.19.48 on lilybin.com

It would be nice to have this on my system too, so I can start testing my
new Chord-Font.
I read through all the tips on how to install/compile unstable versions of
lilypond,
but couldn't find a "simple" way to to it. If you guys use 2.19.2 or the
like - that means you compiled it from source, right?
And actually do what it says in
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/contributor/compiling.html ?
That's pretty awkward to me. There isn't a pre-packed installable version
of 2.19? Or an easier way?

Cheers, Marco

***
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***
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On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 3:11 AM Aaron Hill  wrote:

> On 2019-07-05 5:34 pm, Marco Baumgartner wrote:
> > the output of:
> >
> > \markup \roman "fi"
> >
> > is in the attachment. It does not produce the ligatures - both in
> > standard
> > and a testing font of mine containing ligatures (otf).
> > In the word "leer", the letter e and r should be connected.
> >
> > I stumbled over this (2015):
> >
> http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/Broken-ligatures-in-recent-LilyPond-versions-td171760.html
> >
> > It's said, that as of 2.18.2 and newer, ligatures are broken in
> > lilypond.
> > Doesn't seem to be the case for everybody though...
> >
> > I've updatet my system, running Debian Stretch 9.9 now.
> > Lilypond is no longer in the standard-repository in this updated
> > version,
> > so I've installed the generic package "2.18.2" from lilypond.org.
>
> Firstly, I said lilybin.org by mistake.  I meant of course lilybin.com.
>
> Secondly, I goofed in my testing.  I had thought I was on stable 2.18.2
> when I saw the ligature working.  But that is wrong.  It was when
> lilybin.com was using unstable 2.19.48 that the ligatures appear to
> work.  And for comparison, the following also works on my machine
> running 2.19.82:
>
> 
> \version "2.19"
> \paper { #(include-special-characters) }
> \markup \fontsize #12 \roman "fi ffi fl"
> \markup \fontsize #12 \roman { "f‌i f‌f‌i f‌l" }
> 
>
> At this point, 2.18.2 is pretty old when compared to all the updates
> pending next stable release.  So it would definitely be worth seeing if
> you can move up to the latest bits.
>
> But if you have to stick to 2.18.2, then ligatures are not going to work
> as expected due to problems with the older version of Pango it would
> seem.
>
> My apologies for leading you down a bad path.
>
>
> -- Aaron Hill
>
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Re: Jazz Chord Symbols (as new font - NOT notation font)

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Marco,

> There isn't a pre-packed installable version of 2.19?

Yes there is: 

Hope that helps!
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info
‣ pronouns: he / him / his or they / them / their


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Re: Jazz Chord Symbols (as new font - NOT notation font)

[Marco Baumgartner]

Hi Kieren,

oh my!
Guess what? I'm running 2.19.83 now! Thank you so much!
And: Ligatures working like they should!

The question on how to install an unstable version was offtopic - and
yet, it totally solved my problem with ligatures.
Thank you so much for your help!

I now can start on creating my new chord-symbol-font. Of course, I'll
keep you all informed about it.
As for now (and for me): Problem solved!

Thanks to you all for helping me out.

Nice!
Cheers, Marco

PS: Attached screenshot of the output of standard font and one of my
own testing font (otf) with ligatures installed on my system.

***
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On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 3:49 AM Kieren MacMillan
 wrote:
>
> Hi Marco,
>
> > There isn't a pre-packed installable version of 2.19?
>
> Yes there is: 
>
> Hope that helps!
> Kieren.
> 
>
> Kieren MacMillan, composer
> ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info
> ‣ pronouns: he / him / his or they / them / their
>

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Re: Jazz Chord Symbols (as new font - NOT notation font)

[Marco Baumgartner]

***
www.marcobaumgartner.com

On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 4:14 AM Marco Baumgartner
 wrote:
>
> Hi Kieren,
>
> oh my!
> Guess what? I'm running 2.19.83 now! Thank you so much!
> And: Ligatures working like they should!
>
> The question on how to install an unstable version was offtopic - and
> yet, it totally solved my problem with ligatures.
> Thank you so much for your help!
>
> I now can start on creating my new chord-symbol-font. Of course, I'll
> keep you all informed about it.
> As for now (and for me): Problem solved!
>
> Thanks to you all for helping me out.
>
> Nice!
> Cheers, Marco
>
> PS: Attached screenshot of the output of standard font and one of my
> own testing font (otf) with ligatures installed on my system.
>
> ***
> www.marcobaumgartner.com
>
> On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 3:49 AM Kieren MacMillan
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Marco,
> >
> > > There isn't a pre-packed installable version of 2.19?
> >
> > Yes there is: 
> >
> > Hope that helps!
> > Kieren.
> > 
> >
> > Kieren MacMillan, composer
> > ‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
> > ‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info
> > ‣ pronouns: he / him / his or they / them / their
> >
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Re: More font ligatures

[Michael Gerdau]

> Elam Rotam, of Early Music Sources fame, has created a font that recreates 
> 16th century typesetting. It could be useful for doing quick, good looking 
> incipits:
> 
> https://www.earlymusicsources.com/more/font-serenissima
> 
> https://youtu.be/HH1oUc4E1CA
> 
> The one issue is that it relies heavily on font ligatures. I'll have to try 
> it on 2.19.83.

The input of these ligatures becomes PITA when you change keyboard layout. Try 
that with a Dvorak keyboard.

I’m not knowledgeable enough to judge if taking the shapes and convert it into 
a proper notefont to be used by LP is worth the effort.

Kind regards,
Michael ___
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