Re: what do you use ragged-bottom for?

[Trevor Daniels]

Keith E OHara wrote Saturday, November 16, 2013 4:00 AM

> So for what kind of music do you use ragged-bottom=##t ?

I don't use it at all (I set mainly short SATB + piano, occationally 
orchestral).

> The manual (currently) suggests it for scores, where maybe just two systems 
> fit on a page; but then the systems are closer than they need to be on the 
> looser pages.  To give adaptable space at the bottom of the page, it is 
> better to use \paper{ last-bottom-spacing #'stretchability = 120 }

It may have been useful for purposes such as this (two systems per page) before 
flexible spacing was implemented.  Flexible spacing is much better, although 
difficult to grasp initially.

> Sometimes we do want fixed vertical spacing of the music on the page; we can 
> make the 'minimum-distance as big as 'basic-distance, in all the spacing 
> settings, but that user-interface is difficult.

Yes.
 
> Maybe ragged-bottom=##t should continue to always under-fill pages, as it 
> does now?

It may be useful as a speed-up aid during the data-entry/checking phase in 
longer pieces, but I don't know what the time saving would be.

Trevor
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Re: musicxml2ly output indentation style

[Peter Bjuhr]

On 11/14/2013 09:16 AM, Martin Tarenskeen wrote:


Hi,

The lilypond output that is produced from musicxml2ly uses another 
indentation style than I see in my own scores when using for example 
Vim or Frescobaldi, or in all examples in the Lilypond documentation.


for example:

%commonly used style
music = \relative c' {
  a b c d
}

%musicxml2ly style
music = \relative c' {
  a b c d
  }



Hi Martin!

Thanks for pointing this out! In the latest development version of 
Frescobaldi scores imported through internal musicXML import are now 
reformatted (the same way as if Tools->Format were used).


Best
Peter


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Re: musicxml2ly output indentation style

[Urs Liska]

Peter Bjuhr  schrieb:
>
>On 11/14/2013 09:16 AM, Martin Tarenskeen wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The lilypond output that is produced from musicxml2ly uses another 
>> indentation style than I see in my own scores when using for example 
>> Vim or Frescobaldi, or in all examples in the Lilypond documentation.
>>
>> for example:
>>
>> %commonly used style
>> music = \relative c' {
>>   a b c d
>> }
>>
>> %musicxml2ly style
>> music = \relative c' {
>>   a b c d
>>   }
>>
>
>Hi Martin!
>
>Thanks for pointing this out! In the latest development version of 
>Frescobaldi scores imported through internal musicXML import are now 
>reformatted (the same way as if Tools->Format were used).

... which of course doesn't mean that this issue couldn't/shouldn't be fixed 
right in musicxml2ly.

Urs

>Best
>Peter
>
>
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Write to a separate file from a custom set of engravers

[Maurits Lamers]

Hi all,

If I create an additional set of engravers in Scheme, what approach should I 
take if I want the output of these engravers to end up in a separate output 
file?
This separate file should not be the generated post script file or a log file.
I could call (open-file ) and write to it, I could also create a closure in 
which I get access to this file, but this doesn’t give me any control on the 
order in which the output is written to the file, or does it?
What would be the best approach here?

Thanks in advance!

Maurits
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Re: Write to a separate file from a custom set of engravers

[David Kastrup]

Maurits Lamers  writes:

> Hi all,
>
> If I create an additional set of engravers in Scheme, what approach
> should I take if I want the output of these engravers to end up in a
> separate output file?
> This separate file should not be the generated post script file or a log file.
> I could call (open-file ) and write to it, I could also create a
> closure in which I get access to this file, but this doesn’t give me
> any control on the order in which the output is written to the file,
> or does it?
> What would be the best approach here?

Have you looked at ly/event-listener.ly already?

-- 
David Kastrup


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Frescobaldi Project Support

[SoundsFromSound]

Does anyone know of a place where one can donate to help support the
Frescobaldi project? I can't find any link on the website,
http://www.frescobaldi.org/ and I was curious if there was another location
maybe.

Thanks.



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Re: Frescobaldi Project Support

[Urs Liska]

SoundsFromSound  schrieb:
>Does anyone know of a place where one can donate to help support the
>Frescobaldi project? I can't find any link on the website,
>http://www.frescobaldi.org/ and I was curious if there was another
>location
>maybe.

No, there isn't.

You should ask Wilbert Berendsen personally.

Or you have a look at recent discussions in the Issue Tracker (don't miss 
closed ones and pull requests). There are a few exciting ideas around currently 
(and I'm not involved in all, otherwise I wouldn't write this here).  Maybe 
there's something you find interesting and consider motivating individual 
contributors ...

Urs
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>-
>composer | sound designer 
>LilyPond Tutorials (for beginners) --> http://bit.ly/bcl-lilypond
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>
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Partial measures (in middle of score)

[SoundsFromSound]

I'm attempting to set a Classical-era piece using LilyPond and I can't figure
out how to create partial measures in the middle of the score (while also
avoiding bar check failures). 

I can use the partial command at the beginning of my score without issue,
but when it comes time to put the other "matching" partial measure mid-score
(before the section repeats back to the beginning), LilyPond gives me bar
check fails. I've tried using invisible rests, but they put too much
white-space in the mid-score partial measure it looks odd.

What is the preferred way to input partial measures mid-score and also avoid
excess white-space and bar check fails? I'm stumped.

Thanks!



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Re: lilypond-user Digest, Vol 132, Issue 81

[Maurits Lamers]

Thank you! Have been searching through docs, but didn’t find this one. It seems 
to be perfect!

cheers

Maurits

On 16 nov. 2013, at 13:30, lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org wrote:

> From: David Kastrup 
> Subject: Re: Write to a separate file from a custom set of engravers
> Date: 16 november 2013 13:29:57 CET
> To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
> 
> 
> Maurits Lamers  writes:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> If I create an additional set of engravers in Scheme, what approach
>> should I take if I want the output of these engravers to end up in a
>> separate output file?
>> This separate file should not be the generated post script file or a log 
>> file.
>> I could call (open-file ) and write to it, I could also create a
>> closure in which I get access to this file, but this doesn’t give me
>> any control on the order in which the output is written to the file,
>> or does it?
>> What would be the best approach here?
> 
> Have you looked at ly/event-listener.ly already?
> 
> -- 
> David Kastrup

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Re: Partial measures (in middle of score)

[David Kastrup]

SoundsFromSound  writes:

> I'm attempting to set a Classical-era piece using LilyPond and I can't figure
> out how to create partial measures in the middle of the score (while also
> avoiding bar check failures). 
>
> I can use the partial command at the beginning of my score without issue,
> but when it comes time to put the other "matching" partial measure mid-score
> (before the section repeats back to the beginning), LilyPond gives me bar
> check fails. I've tried using invisible rests, but they put too much
> white-space in the mid-score partial measure it looks odd.
>
> What is the preferred way to input partial measures mid-score and also avoid
> excess white-space and bar check fails? I'm stumped.

See issue 3645, to appear in LilyPond 2.19.0 and likely in 2.18.1 (note
that 2.18.0 will be released in few weeks at the earliest).

If you follow
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3645> to the
Code Review, you'll easily see the change in documentation.  The "after"
documentation is what you probably would have found easy enough to use,
the "before" documentation likely is what you will have to work with for
now unless you are working with the current master from git.

-- 
David Kastrup


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Re: Partial measures (in middle of score)

[Janek Warchoł]

2013/11/16 SoundsFromSound :
> I'm attempting to set a Classical-era piece using LilyPond and I can't figure
> out how to create partial measures in the middle of the score (while also
> avoiding bar check failures).
>
> I can use the partial command at the beginning of my score without issue,
> but when it comes time to put the other "matching" partial measure mid-score
> (before the section repeats back to the beginning), LilyPond gives me bar
> check fails. I've tried using invisible rests, but they put too much
> white-space in the mid-score partial measure it looks odd.

If i understood what you want correctly, then it seems to me that
you're approaching this issue wrongly.
If what you want is a repeated section that has a partial measure at
the beginning, and then ends with a non-full measure that matches that
initial partial measure (and after that repeated section there is
another section starting with an upbeat), you don't have to do
anything special.  Just put repeats in the middle of a measure.

Hopefully this example will clarify what i mean:

% Te Deum prelude

\relative f' {
  \key g \major
  \partial 4
  \repeat volta 2 {
d4
g g8 a b4 g
d'2 b4. b8
c4 d8 c b c d4
a8 g a b a4 d,
g4 g8 a b4 g
d'2 b4. b8
c8 d b c a4. g8 g2.
  }
  d'8 c
  b4 g c c8 b
  a4. g8 fis4 b
  a g8 a fis4 b
  % etc...
}

If this is not helpful please send an image of what you want to achieve.

hth,
Janek

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Re: Partial measures (in middle of score)

[Phil Holmes]

- Original Message - 
From: "SoundsFromSound" 

To: 
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 2:33 PM
Subject: Partial measures (in middle of score)


I'm attempting to set a Classical-era piece using LilyPond and I can't 
figure

out how to create partial measures in the middle of the score (while also
avoiding bar check failures).

I can use the partial command at the beginning of my score without issue,
but when it comes time to put the other "matching" partial measure 
mid-score

(before the section repeats back to the beginning), LilyPond gives me bar
check fails. I've tried using invisible rests, but they put too much
white-space in the mid-score partial measure it looks odd.

What is the preferred way to input partial measures mid-score and also 
avoid

excess white-space and bar check fails? I'm stumped.

Thanks!



I'm wondering whether you actually have partial measures, or actually a bar 
split in its middle.  If the latter, something like:


{ \partial 4 c4 | c c \bar "|" c c | }

works perfectly well.

--
Phil Holmes 



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Re: Partial measures (in middle of score)

[SoundsFromSound]

David Kastrup wrote
> See issue 3645, to appear in LilyPond 2.19.0 and likely in 2.18.1 (note
> that 2.18.0 will be released in few weeks at the earliest).
> 
> If you follow
> ; to the
> Code Review, you'll easily see the change in documentation.  The "after"
> documentation is what you probably would have found easy enough to use,
> the "before" documentation likely is what you will have to work with for
> now unless you are working with the current master from git.
> 
> -- 
> David Kastrup

Thanks David. I don't quite understand everything on the code review page
but I get the general idea. For now, for this project I'm going to just use
the partial command in the middle of the piece and accept the log warning.
That's the only issue in my log file and for this example I think it'll be
ok. It's a basic quick-setting project.

After reading the code review page and a few other threads I searched here,
I have one question for you: do you think the partial command will be
"allowed" in the middle of a LilyPond input file in a future version? Is
that the overall plan? Or will that break something down the road?



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Re: Partial measures (in middle of score)

[David Kastrup]

SoundsFromSound  writes:

> David Kastrup wrote
>> See issue 3645, to appear in LilyPond 2.19.0 and likely in 2.18.1 (note
>> that 2.18.0 will be released in few weeks at the earliest).
>> 
>> If you follow
>> ; to the
>> Code Review, you'll easily see the change in documentation.  The "after"
>> documentation is what you probably would have found easy enough to use,
>> the "before" documentation likely is what you will have to work with for
>> now unless you are working with the current master from git.
>> 
>> -- 
>> David Kastrup
>
> Thanks David. I don't quite understand everything on the code review page
> but I get the general idea. For now, for this project I'm going to just use
> the partial command in the middle of the piece and accept the log warning.
> That's the only issue in my log file and for this example I think it'll be
> ok. It's a basic quick-setting project.
>
> After reading the code review page and a few other threads I searched here,
> I have one question for you: do you think the partial command will be
> "allowed" in the middle of a LilyPond input file in a future version? Is
> that the overall plan? Or will that break something down the road?

Uh, did you actually read what you replied to?  The very first sentence
specifies the versions where \partial will be allowed in mid-piece.

-- 
David Kastrup


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Re: Partial measures (in middle of score)

[SoundsFromSound]

David Kastrup wrote
> SoundsFromSound <

> soundsfromsound@

> > writes:
> 
>> David Kastrup wrote
>>> See issue 3645, to appear in LilyPond 2.19.0 and likely in 2.18.1 (note
>>> that 2.18.0 will be released in few weeks at the earliest).
>>> 
>>> If you follow
>>> ; to
>>> the
>>> Code Review, you'll easily see the change in documentation.  The "after"
>>> documentation is what you probably would have found easy enough to use,
>>> the "before" documentation likely is what you will have to work with for
>>> now unless you are working with the current master from git.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> David Kastrup
>>
>> Thanks David. I don't quite understand everything on the code review page
>> but I get the general idea. For now, for this project I'm going to just
>> use
>> the partial command in the middle of the piece and accept the log
>> warning.
>> That's the only issue in my log file and for this example I think it'll
>> be
>> ok. It's a basic quick-setting project.
>>
>> After reading the code review page and a few other threads I searched
>> here,
>> I have one question for you: do you think the partial command will be
>> "allowed" in the middle of a LilyPond input file in a future version? Is
>> that the overall plan? Or will that break something down the road?
> 
> Uh, did you actually read what you replied to?  The very first sentence
> specifies the versions where \partial will be allowed in mid-piece.
> 
> -- 
> David Kastrup

That's what I had thought after reading what you wrote, but when I went to
the code review page and read the back-and-forths, I was confused and
thought maybe it wasn't "confirmed" or something. 

I think I need to spend some more time learning how the whole Google Code
system is laid out and how features get implemented. 

Either that or I should learn how to read better. :)

Ben




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RE: what do you use ragged-bottom for?

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Mr. O'Hara:

My use of the ragged bottom is very particular. I use Lilypond to set piano
scores for viewing on a tablet (easy page turning!). In a set of variations,
some (if not all) of the variations might not be long enough to fill the
page, and two consecutive variations would be too much. Each variation is
started on a new page. Without the "ragged-bottom" the distance between the
staves is "stretched" to occupy the entire length of the page. From page to
page this change in distance confuses my "eye." With the ragged-bottom the
distance between staves is consistent and my eye tracks comfortably. Another
solution may exist. This is the one that I found and use.

Thank you for your efforts to improve an already marvelous program.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of
Keith E OHara
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 8:01 PM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: what do you use ragged-bottom for?

I'm fixing a bug involving the ragged-bottom setting (issue 3281).  By
default, ragged-last-bottom=##t so the last page can have blank space at the
bottom.  Currently, "ragged-bottom" is implemented to *always* under-fill
the page, *never* compressing to fit one more system.

As a default, that is wrong, because all the other pages are best-fit, while
the last page is under-filled.  The situation has caused me quite a lot of
confusion: wondering why LilyPond likes to put the last system on its own
page, decreasing the staff-size, or trying page-turn-breaking -- and then
wondering why so much material moved back to earlier pages, so that the last
page is again the least full.

For now, as a workaround, in these cases we can say \paper {
last-ragged-bottom=##f }, which can go selectively in individual \bookpart s
if need be.

So 'ragged-last-bottom' should allow a gap at the bottom of the last page,
but let the page fill as the others are filled.  But I do not know what
'ragged-bottom' should do.  This is the option that applies to all pages.
Werner sees some sense in 'ragged-bottom' meaning that pages are neither
stretched nor compressed vertically, but cannot think of an example where
this behavior is useful.  (I wrote code with a new option to let us switch
the behavior, but have no idea if the added complexity gives any benefit, or
how to best set the defaults.)

So for what kind of music do you use ragged-bottom=##t ?

The manual (currently) suggests it for scores, where maybe just two systems
fit on a page; but then the systems are closer than they need to be on the
looser pages.  To give adaptable space at the bottom of the page, it is
better to use \paper{ last-bottom-spacing #'stretchability = 120 }

Sometimes we do want fixed vertical spacing of the music on the page; we can
make the 'minimum-distance as big as 'basic-distance, in all the spacing
settings, but that user-interface is difficult.

Maybe ragged-bottom=##t should continue to always under-fill pages, as it
does now?


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How to structure piano music?

[Noeck]

Hi,

I am trying to engrave small pieces for piano and I realize how
difficult that can be. What should be my approach?

The example is meant to be one staff of a piano staff group
(PianoStaff). I don't want to have any shifts for notes played at the
same time. The voices should combine to chords (as it is in the last
measure).

I tried 4 possibilities (shown in four measures):
1) << {} {} {} >> : default way to stack music
2) \voiceOne|Three|Two : mark them as voices to avoid collisions
3) \voiceOne|Four|Two : just a variant of 2)
4) version 1) with manual setting of stem and slur directions

1) to 3) are not what I want. 4) looks ok, but is that really the way to
go? Do I really have to set all directions of stems, slurs,
articulations, etc. manually? Or is there a way to automatically combine
voices to chords for piano, such that they split when necessary like on
the first beat and that they form chords wherever possible like
during the remainder of the example measure?

Cheers,
Joram
\version "2.17.17"

musicone = \relative c' { c'8( f d4) bes c g f | }
musictwo = \relative c' { a'4 bes g g c, c }
musicthree = \relative c' { c4 f d e g, a }

firstvoice =  {
  \key bes \major
  \time 6/4
  <>^"default"
  \musicone
  <>^"voices 1 3 2"
  \voiceOne
  \musicone
  <>^"voices 1 4 2"
  \musicone
  <>^"manual up/down"
  \stemUp
  \slurUp
  \musicone
}

secondvoice = \relative c' {
  \key bes \major
  % default
  \musictwo
  % voices 1 3 2
  \voiceThree
  \musictwo
  % voices 1 4 2
  \voiceFour
  \musictwo
  % manual up/down
  \oneVoice
  \stemUp
  \once\stemDown \musictwo
}

thirdvoice = \relative {
  \key bes \major
  % default
  \musicthree
  % voices 1 3 2
  \voiceTwo
  \musicthree
  % voices 1 4 2
  \musicthree
  % manual up/down
  \stemUp
  \once\stemDown \musicthree |
}


\new Staff <<
  \firstvoice
  \secondvoice
  \thirdvoice
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Re: How to structure piano music?

[Noeck]

PS: What I forgot to ask:
How can I solve the warnings about colliding note columns?

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RE: How to structure piano music?

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Joram,

My response is based on a trial and success learning of Lilypond, not on any 
in-depth understanding of its codes or workings.
I set piano music using 2.16.2. To me "voices" means a polyphonic setting, 
e.g., a fugue. Lilypond seems to think the same. So using the command "voice" 
always separates the parts. A chord, " < >," is treated as belonging to one 
voice.

One option is the command: \merge DifferentHeadedOn (in 2.16.2)
This may look more like what you want, yet it eliminates the visual 
voice-leading.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org 
[mailto:lilypond-user-bounces+carsonmark=ca.rr@gnu.org] On Behalf Of Noeck
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 11:33 AM
To: lilypond-user
Subject: How to structure piano music?

Hi,

I am trying to engrave small pieces for piano and I realize how difficult that 
can be. What should be my approach?

The example is meant to be one staff of a piano staff group (PianoStaff). I 
don't want to have any shifts for notes played at the same time. The voices 
should combine to chords (as it is in the last measure).

I tried 4 possibilities (shown in four measures):
1) << {} {} {} >> : default way to stack music
2) \voiceOne|Three|Two : mark them as voices to avoid collisions
3) \voiceOne|Four|Two : just a variant of 2)
4) version 1) with manual setting of stem and slur directions

1) to 3) are not what I want. 4) looks ok, but is that really the way to go? Do 
I really have to set all directions of stems, slurs, articulations, etc. 
manually? Or is there a way to automatically combine voices to chords for 
piano, such that they split when necessary like on the first beat and that they 
form chords wherever possible like during the remainder of the example measure?

Cheers,
Joram


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Re: How to structure piano music?

[Urs Liska]

Am 16.11.2013 20:34, schrieb Noeck:

PS: What I forgot to ask:
How can I solve the warnings about colliding note columns?



\override NoteColumn #'ignore-collision = ##t


HTH
Urs

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Re: How to structure piano music?

[Urs Liska]

Am 16.11.2013 20:33, schrieb Noeck:

Hi,

I am trying to engrave small pieces for piano and I realize how
difficult that can be. What should be my approach?

The example is meant to be one staff of a piano staff group
(PianoStaff). I don't want to have any shifts for notes played at the
same time. The voices should combine to chords (as it is in the last
measure).

I tried 4 possibilities (shown in four measures):
1) << {} {} {} >> : default way to stack music
2) \voiceOne|Three|Two : mark them as voices to avoid collisions
3) \voiceOne|Four|Two : just a variant of 2)
4) version 1) with manual setting of stem and slur directions

1) to 3) are not what I want. 4) looks ok, but is that really the way to
go? Do I really have to set all directions of stems, slurs,
articulations, etc. manually? Or is there a way to automatically combine
voices to chords for piano, such that they split when necessary like on
the first beat and that they form chords wherever possible like
during the remainder of the example measure?

Cheers,
Joram


It's not completely clear from your example how the logical structure of 
the music is.
Do you actually have independent voices that you just want to appear as 
chords?
Or do you basically have chorded music that sometimes happens to split 
into different voices (actually the example looks like this).?


If the latter is the case you should enter it as one voice and only 
split it temporarily where necessary.
Use the << { } \new Voice { } >> construct, then the first voice will be 
the same as the surrounding music, which is necessary to continue the 
slur in your example.


If the first is the case you'd have to make all \voiceOne and change 
(all voices) to \voiceTwo if you want the stem downwards. Use the 
override I sent earlier to avoid the huge number of warnings.


HTH
Urs

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Re: How to structure piano music?

[David Kastrup]

Urs Liska  writes:

> Am 16.11.2013 20:34, schrieb Noeck:
>> PS: What I forgot to ask:
>> How can I solve the warnings about colliding note columns?
>
>
> \override NoteColumn #'ignore-collision = ##t

Those warnings are usually there for a good reason, mainly when multiple
voices are being used without using \voiceOne/\voiceTwo/... for giving
LilyPond the right cue how to resolve collisions.  Sometimes multiple
voices are used when actually every element of the collision should have
been in the same voice.

-- 
David Kastrup


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Re: How to structure piano music?

[Urs Liska]

David Kastrup  schrieb:
>Urs Liska  writes:
>
>> Am 16.11.2013 20:34, schrieb Noeck:
>>> PS: What I forgot to ask:
>>> How can I solve the warnings about colliding note columns?
>>
>>
>> \override NoteColumn #'ignore-collision = ##t
>
>Those warnings are usually there for a good reason, mainly when
>multiple
>voices are being used without using \voiceOne/\voiceTwo/... for giving
>LilyPond the right cue how to resolve collisions.  Sometimes multiple
>voices are used when actually every element of the collision should
>have
>been in the same voice.

Of course. But particularly in piano music you regularly run into situations 
where voices join to chords and where it would be impractical or inappropriate 
to use chords plus spacer rests. That is where you'd rather continue voices but 
make them all the same. Voice number. in particular that's always true for a 
hidden voice used for cross-voice tying.
Actually I have this so often that I defined a command \ignoreCollision in my 
library.

Urs

>
>-- 
>David Kastrup
>
>
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Re: what do you use ragged-bottom for?

[Carl Sorensen]

On 11/16/13 10:38 AM, "Mark Stephen Mrotek"  wrote:

>Mr. O'Hara:
>
>My use of the ragged bottom is very particular. I use Lilypond to set
>piano
>scores for viewing on a tablet (easy page turning!). In a set of
>variations,
>some (if not all) of the variations might not be long enough to fill the
>page, and two consecutive variations would be too much. Each variation is
>started on a new page. Without the "ragged-bottom" the distance between
>the
>staves is "stretched" to occupy the entire length of the page. From page
>to
>page this change in distance confuses my "eye." With the ragged-bottom the
>distance between staves is consistent and my eye tracks comfortably.
>Another
>solution may exist. This is the one that I found and use.

If your variations are only one page long, you could achieve the same
effect with ragged-last-bottom.  Keith is asking about ragged-bottom,
which applies to every page of the score.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: How to structure piano music?

[Joram Berger]

Hi Urs,

thanks for your answer (from someone who has the experience with LP
piano music)!

> It's not completely clear from your example how the logical structure of
> the music is.
> Do you actually have independent voices that you just want to appear as
> chords?
> Or do you basically have chorded music that sometimes happens to split
> into different voices (actually the example looks like this).?

It's not completely clear for me, neither. It is mostly homophonic music
(chords) but it is also always exactly 3 voices, which made me think of
it that way. I wanted to avoid all the chord notation by writing each
voice seperately. But when I see the output, I think chords and
temporary splits are probably better.

> If the latter is the case you should enter it as one voice and only
> split it temporarily where necessary.
> Use the << { } \new Voice { } >> construct, then the first voice will be
> the same as the surrounding music, which is necessary to continue the
> slur in your example.

That's a good idea, it will get more difficult with slurs in different
voices starting or ending in different combinations of voices.

And it is probably unavoidable to ignore those collision errors in piano
music.

Thanks,
Joram



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Re: How to structure piano music?

[Noeck]

Hi Urs,

thanks for your answer (from someone who has the experience with LP
piano music)!

> It's not completely clear from your example how the logical structure of
> the music is.
> Do you actually have independent voices that you just want to appear as
> chords?
> Or do you basically have chorded music that sometimes happens to split
> into different voices (actually the example looks like this).?

It's not completely clear for me, neither. It is mostly homophonic music
(chords) but it is also always exactly 3 voices, which made me think of
it that way. I wanted to avoid all the chord notation by writing each
voice seperately. But when I see the output, I think chords and
temporary splits are probably better.

> If the latter is the case you should enter it as one voice and only
> split it temporarily where necessary.
> Use the << { } \new Voice { } >> construct, then the first voice will be
> the same as the surrounding music, which is necessary to continue the
> slur in your example.

That's a good idea, it will get more difficult with slurs in different
voices starting or ending in different combinations of voices.

And it is probably unavoidable to ignore those collision errors in piano
music.

Thanks,
Joram



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Re: How to structure piano music?

[Janek Warchoł]

2013/11/16 Joram Berger :
> Hi Urs,
>
> thanks for your answer (from someone who has the experience with LP
> piano music)!
>
>> It's not completely clear from your example how the logical structure of
>> the music is.
>> Do you actually have independent voices that you just want to appear as
>> chords?
>> Or do you basically have chorded music that sometimes happens to split
>> into different voices (actually the example looks like this).?
>
> It's not completely clear for me, neither. It is mostly homophonic music
> (chords) but it is also always exactly 3 voices, which made me think of
> it that way. I wanted to avoid all the chord notation by writing each
> voice seperately.

You can do this by putting the melodies together, but *not* in separate voices:

\new Voice <<
  { c' d' e' f' }
  { e' f' b' c'' }
>>

The trick is to know what exactly LilyPond means by "voice", and what
you mean by "voice", and don't fall into a trap when these definitions
differ.

hth,
Janek

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RE: what do you use ragged-bottom for?

[Mark Stephen Mrotek]

Mr. Sorenson,

That is exactly the way I use the command.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Carl Sorensen [mailto:c_soren...@byu.edu] 
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 2:23 PM
To: Mark Stephen Mrotek; 'Keith E OHara'; lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: what do you use ragged-bottom for?

On 11/16/13 10:38 AM, "Mark Stephen Mrotek"  wrote:

>Mr. O'Hara:
>
>My use of the ragged bottom is very particular. I use Lilypond to set 
>piano scores for viewing on a tablet (easy page turning!). In a set of 
>variations, some (if not all) of the variations might not be long 
>enough to fill the page, and two consecutive variations would be too 
>much. Each variation is started on a new page. Without the 
>"ragged-bottom" the distance between the staves is "stretched" to 
>occupy the entire length of the page. From page to page this change in 
>distance confuses my "eye." With the ragged-bottom the distance between 
>staves is consistent and my eye tracks comfortably.
>Another
>solution may exist. This is the one that I found and use.

If your variations are only one page long, you could achieve the same effect
with ragged-last-bottom.  Keith is asking about ragged-bottom, which applies
to every page of the score.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: Crash with \repeat ... \alternative and \remove "Bar_engraver" on 2.17.26

[David Kastrup]

Cc and Reply-To to bug-lilypond

Jim Long  writes:

> I was researching a method for defining form (repeats, rehearsal
> marks, etc.) and line breaking in separate, hidden parallel staff
> contexts, and ran across the following crash:
>
> GNU LilyPond 2.17.26
> Processing `bug6-crash.ly'

[...]

> systems.../usr/local/share/lilypond/2.17.26/scm/bar-line.scm:913:28:
> In procedure ly:grob-array-length in expression (ly:grob-array-length
> bar-array):
> /usr/local/share/lilypond/2.17.26/scm/bar-line.scm:913:28: Wrong type
> argument in position 1 (expecting Grob_array): ()
>
> Can someone please determine whether the latest beta still does
> this, and if so, whether a bug report is warranted?
>
> The interaction appears to be between '\remove "Bar_engraver"' and
> the alternative ending.  Remove either one and the problem goes away.

What is this good for?  I'm debugging on this
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3663> and though
I've gotten the crash under control, my results are not identical to the
2.16 results.  I have a hard time deciding whether I should even care.

Can you spell out an actual application for this that did something
useful in 2.16?  What would the output look like for such a reasonable
application?

Thanks

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Crash with \repeat ... \alternative and \remove "Bar_engraver" on 2.17.26

[Jim Long]

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 12:15:45AM +0100, David Kastrup wrote:
> 
> What is this good for?  I'm debugging on this
> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=3663> and though
> I've gotten the crash under control, my results are not identical to the
> 2.16 results.  I have a hard time deciding whether I should even care.
> 
> Can you spell out an actual application for this that did something
> useful in 2.16?  What would the output look like for such a reasonable
> application?

By itself, I don't know what it's good for, nor do I have an
example of what the minimal example's output "should" be.  It's
an element that is intended to be used simultaneously with other
contexts (melodic, chordal, whatever).

I was working on a lead sheet, and looking for a way to separate
the volta structure, \time changes, rehearsal marks, etc., from
the actual notes, because the notes often repeated, but did so in
unusual parts of the arrangement.  So I wanted to separate the
form from the melody.

At some point while I was working, the input file got into a
state which caused Lilypond to crash.  I arrived at the minimal
example by process of elimination after I discovered that
Lilypond still crashed when the chordal and melodic staves were
commented out or removed, leaving only the \form.  I then
winnowed down the \form variable's music to the smallest example
that would trigger the crash.

A larger example created just today works fine if I define a
simultaneous empty (spacers) melodic staff of a sufficient
length.

If the crash has been resolved, I would agree that the expected
output from the minimal example is inconsequential, and it's
probably difficult to say what output is definitively correct or
incorrect, since there are no bar lines for the volta brackets to
align to.

I'm attaching a less-minimal example.  Commenting out the sample
melody and using spacer rests, it appears that the crash happens
when the simultaneous music is not long enough to complete the
first ending.  Hence s1*15 (and less) crashes, s1*16 (and more)
does not.  Perhaps this example will suggest a more specific
"correct" output, but my feeling is that if the crash is fixed,
the issue can probably be closed.

Thank you for taking a look at this.

Regards,

Jim

\version "2.17.95"

form = \new Staff \with {
  \remove "Time_signature_engraver"
  \remove "Clef_engraver"
  \remove "Bar_engraver"
  \remove "Staff_symbol_engraver"
  \remove "Axis_group_engraver"
} {

  \mark \markup \box \bold "Intro"
  s1 * 8
  \mark \default  % A section
  \repeat volta 2 {
s1 * 6
  } \alternative {
{ % first ending
  s1 * 2
}
{ % second ending
  s1 * 2
}
  } % repeat
 
  \mark \default
  s1 * 8 % B section

  \mark \default
  s1 * 8 % C section

  \bar "|."

} % form

melody = \relative c'' {

  c,4 c c c
  d4 d d d
  e4 e e e
  f4 f f f
  g4 g g g
  a4 a a a
  b4 b b b
  c4 c c c

  c,4 c c c
  d4 d d d
  e4 e e e
  f4 f f f
  g4 g g g
  a4 a a a

% first ending:
  b4 b b b
  c4 c c c

% second ending:
  c,4 c c c
  d4 d d d

% B section:
  e4 e e e
  f4 f f f
  g4 g g g
  a4 a a a
  b4 b b b
  c4 c c c
  c,4 c c c
  d4 d d d

% C section:
  e4 e e e
  f4 f f f
  g4 g g g
  a4 a a a
  b4 b b b
  c4 c c c
  c,4 c c c
  d4 d d d

} % melody

\score {
  <<
\set Score.markFormatter = #format-mark-box-letters
\form
% \melody
% s1*15 % crash
s1*16 % no crash
  >>
} % score
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Lyrics not starting on 1st bar of music

[ayutheos]

Hi,

I have a song consisting of a single staff which has the following structure:

(1) Intro | (2) Part one | (3) Music only | (4) Part two

How do I add lyrics to Parts One and Two only? Section (3) is a short
4 bars of music.

I've gone through the help documentations, but didn't find anything to
make the lyrics *not* start on the first bar, or having a break in the
middle of the music.

--
TY

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Re: Lyrics not starting on 1st bar of music

[Christopher R. Maden]

On 11/16/2013 07:50 PM, ayutheos wrote:
> I have a song consisting of a single staff which has the following
> structure:
> 
> (1) Intro | (2) Part one | (3) Music only | (4) Part two
> 
> How do I add lyrics to Parts One and Two only? Section (3) is a
> short 4 bars of music.
> 
> I've gone through the help documentations, but didn't find anything
> to make the lyrics *not* start on the first bar, or having a break in
> the middle of the music.

Voices.

Parts one and two should be (or include) an explicitly labeled voice.

The lyrics are then lyrics to that voice, and will synchronize with the
notes in that voice, ignoring any music that isn’t in that voice.

HTH,
Chris
-- 
Chris Maden, text nerd  http://crism.maden.org/ >
“Peace has other governments that don’t go through the will of
 politicians.” — Mia Couto, “Rain, the Dreamsend” (tr. Austen Hyde)
GnuPG fingerprint: DB08 CF6C 2583 7F55 3BE9  A210 4A51 DBAC 5C5C 3D5E

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Re: Lyrics not starting on 1st bar of music

[David Stocker]

\skip

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/notation/writing-rests#index-_005cskip

If  you're using a development version, search find \skip in the index 
of the pertinent documentation.


Hope that helps.

Regards,

David

On 11/16/2013 8:51 PM, lilypond-user-requ...@gnu.org wrote:

How do I add lyrics to Parts One and Two only? Section (3) is a short
4 bars of music.



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Re: Lyrics not starting on 1st bar of music

[Jim Long]

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 09:50:16AM +0800, ayutheos wrote:
> I have a song consisting of a single staff which has the following structure:
> 
> (1) Intro | (2) Part one | (3) Music only | (4) Part two
> 
> How do I add lyrics to Parts One and Two only?


melodyA = { c'4 c' c' c' }
melodyB = { c'4 c' c' c' }
melodyC = { c'4 c' c' c' }
melodyD = { c'4 c' c' c' }

lyricI  = \lyricmode { Words for part one. }
lyricII = \lyricmode { Words for part two. }

\score {
  <<
\new Staff {
  \new Voice = "intro"  \melodyA
  \new Voice = "part one"   \melodyB
  \new Voice = "music only" \melodyC
  \new Voice = "part two"   \melodyD
}
\new Lyrics { 
  \lyricsto "part one" \lyricI
  \lyricsto "part two" \lyricII
}
  >>
}

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Re: Lyrics not starting on 1st bar of music

[David Stocker]

Hi Ayutheos,

Please "reply all" so everyone can see the conversation.

On 11/16/2013 9:48 PM, ayutheos wrote:

I found this in the documentation
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.16/Documentation/snippets/rhythms#rhythms-skips-in-lyric-mode

But I can't get the lyrics to skip more than 1 note. Say for example I
want the lyrics to start on note G:

%===
melody = \relative c' { c d e f g a b c }

lyrics = \lyricmode {
 \skip 4 lyric words go here
}

\score {
 <<
 \new Voice = "one" { \melody }
 \new Lyrics \lyricsto "one" { \lyrics }
 >>
}
%===

--
TY

You have to do

\repeat unfold 4 { \skip 1 }

The number you use after \skip holds no significance - it just has to be 
there, so just use "1"


But Chris's method is probably more apt, especially if you have to skip 
more than just a few notes at the beginning.


This example didn't compile for me, by the way.

Cheers,

David


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Re: what do you use ragged-bottom for?

[Werner LEMBERG]

> If your variations are only one page long, you could achieve the
> same effect with ragged-last-bottom.  Keith is asking about
> ragged-bottom, which applies to every page of the score.

My concern is to compute a document where each page consists of a
single large system in its `natural', uncompressed shape.  The idea is
to be able to post-process lilypond's output, for example, to split it
into single pages which are then pasted (probably scaled) into another
document.  Now let's assume that we have a huge score with many staves
per system.  If compression is allowed, lilypond tries to fit each
page to the current paper size, even if ragged-bottom is active.
However, I would rather prefer that this doesn't happen silently, this
is, lilypond emits a warning that it can't fit the current system to
the page, and that a cut-off will happen.  This gives the user a
chance to increase the page size if necessary.

In other words, I can live with ragged-bottom compression if lilypond
emits a warning that it has to compress a page – and lilypond should
also emit the corresponding page number in the warning message.


Werner
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