Re: Presentation: & quot; Publisher-grade LilyPond& quot; in Ottawa

[Arno Rog]

Graham Percival  percival-music.ca> writes:

> Are you seriously going to submit a paper to CMJ saying "a volunteer
> open-source project has limited resources for fixing bugs" ???
> 
> That's classy.  Sometimes I wonder why I bother trying to improve lilypond.
> 
> - Graham

Graham,

There is a difference between perception and fact!
Every participant in a project like this will face incomprehension and ignorance
from end-users; considering the complexity of Lilypond this comes as no 
surprise.

I myself have moved away from a commercial scorewriter to Lilypond, impressed as
I am about the quality of the output, convinced as I am about it's
architecture/design and having confidence in the support and development of
Lilypond.

Regards,

Arno Rog







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drawing a line between a note and a syllabe

[Germain G. Ivanoff-Trinadtzaty]

Dear all,
Vocal music, with lyrics following 1st voice.
How to draw a [dashed, dotted, normal] line from the 3rd or 4th voice "do" 
to the syllabe "tse" ?


Ideally, one could adjust a #'position = #'(n . m) property for this line 
(along with #'line-style).


Similarly, how to draw a left vertical bracket from a note to a line of 
lyrics ? from a note to a note of another staff ? (see attached 
"4-brackets.png")


Thanks,
Germain

pj : "test-lien-note-syllabe.ly"
pj : "test-lien-note-syllabe.png"
pj : "4-brackets.png"

%
%produce a trimmed PNG with:
%lilypond -dbackend=eps -dno-gs-load-fonts -dinclude-eps-fonts --png
myfile.ly

%test-lien-note-syllabe.ly
%%

\version "2.12.3"
\include "italiano.ly"
\paper{
%indent=0\mm
%line-width=20\mm
%bookTitleMarkup = ##f
%scoreTitleMarkup = ##f
oddHeaderMarkup=##f
tagline = ##f
%oddFooterMarkup=##f
}

S = \relative {sib'4.( do8 sib4 la | sol4. la8 sib4) do}
A = \relative {sol'4.( la8 sol4 fa | mi4. fa8 sol4) la}
T = \relative {re2.( do4) | do2 r}
B = \relative {sol2.( la8[sib]) | do2 r}
L = \lyricmode { Troi -- tse }

\score
{
\new ChoirStaff
<<
 \new Staff
 <<
  {\key re \minor \clef "G"}
  \new Voice = "V1" << \voiceOne \S >>
  \new Voice = "V2" << \voiceTwo \A >>
 >>
 \new Lyrics = "WordsAll" \lyricsto "V1" { \L }
 \new Staff
 <<
  {\key re \minor \clef "F"}
  \new Voice = "V3" << \voiceOne \T >>
  \new Voice = "V4" << \voiceTwo \B >>
 >>
>>
}

\layout {} 
%produce a trimmed PNG with:
%lilypond -dbackend=eps -dno-gs-load-fonts -dinclude-eps-fonts --png myfile.ly

%test-lien-note-syllabe.ly
%%

\version "2.12.3"
\include "italiano.ly"
\paper{
	%indent=0\mm
	%line-width=20\mm
	%bookTitleMarkup = ##f
	%scoreTitleMarkup = ##f
	oddHeaderMarkup=##f
	tagline = ##f
	%oddFooterMarkup=##f
}

S = \relative {sib'4.( do8 sib4 la | sol4. la8 sib4) do}
A = \relative {sol'4.( la8 sol4 fa | mi4. fa8 sol4) la}
T = \relative {re2.( do4) | do2 r}
B = \relative {sol2.( la8[sib]) | do2 r}
L = \lyricmode { Troi -- tse }

\score
{
	\new ChoirStaff
	<<
		\new Staff
		<<
			{\key re \minor \clef "G"}
			\new Voice = "V1"	<< \voiceOne	\S >>
			\new Voice = "V2"	<< \voiceTwo	\A >>
		>>
		\new Lyrics = "WordsAll" \lyricsto "V1" { \L }
		\new Staff
		<<
			{\key re \minor \clef "F"}
			\new Voice = "V3"	<< \voiceOne	\T >>
			\new Voice = "V4"	<< \voiceTwo	\B >>
		>>
	>>
}

\layout {}

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Re: drawing a line between a note and a syllabe

[Dmytro O. Redchuk]

On Mon 14 Jun 2010, 13:15 Germain G. Ivanoff-Trinadtzaty wrote:
> Dear all,
> Vocal music, with lyrics following 1st voice.
> How to draw a [dashed, dotted, normal] line from the 3rd or 4th
> voice "do" to the syllabe "tse" ?
Hm.

It's possible to draw anything but... "too manual". Ручная работа.

> Ideally, one could adjust a #'position = #'(n . m) property for this
> line (along with #'line-style).
> 
> Similarly, how to draw a left vertical bracket from a note to a line
> of lyrics ? from a note to a note of another staff ? (see attached
> "4-brackets.png")
\arpeggioParenthesisDashed or \arpeggioBracket may fit, it has 'positions
property, i believe.

Too "manual" though :-(

> 
> Thanks,
> Germain
> 
> pj : "test-lien-note-syllabe.ly"
> pj : "test-lien-note-syllabe.png"
> pj : "4-brackets.png"
> 
> %
> %produce a trimmed PNG with:
> %lilypond -dbackend=eps -dno-gs-load-fonts -dinclude-eps-fonts --png
> myfile.ly
> 
> %test-lien-note-syllabe.ly
> %%
> 
> \version "2.12.3"
> \include "italiano.ly"
> \paper{
> %indent=0\mm
> %line-width=20\mm
> %bookTitleMarkup = ##f
> %scoreTitleMarkup = ##f
> oddHeaderMarkup=##f
> tagline = ##f
> %oddFooterMarkup=##f
> }
> 
> S = \relative {sib'4.( do8 sib4 la | sol4. la8 sib4) do}
> A = \relative {sol'4.( la8 sol4 fa | mi4. fa8 sol4) la}
> T = \relative {re2.( do4) | do2 r}
> B = \relative {sol2.( la8[sib]) | do2 r}
> L = \lyricmode { Troi -- tse }
> 
> \score
> {
> \new ChoirStaff
> <<
>  \new Staff
>  <<
>   {\key re \minor \clef "G"}
>   \new Voice = "V1" << \voiceOne \S >>
>   \new Voice = "V2" << \voiceTwo \A >>
>  >>
>  \new Lyrics = "WordsAll" \lyricsto "V1" { \L }
>  \new Staff
>  <<
>   {\key re \minor \clef "F"}
>   \new Voice = "V3" << \voiceOne \T >>
>   \new Voice = "V4" << \voiceTwo \B >>
>  >>
> >>
> }
> 
> \layout {}




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-- 
  Dmytro O. Redchuk

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Re: beatLength / beaming in 4/4

[Carl Sorensen]

On 6/14/10 5:24 AM, "u_li"  wrote:

> [sorry if this should be a double post. When I first sent the message I didn't
> configure my current email client to use my registered address. As I don't see
> my post on the list I assume it didn't get through. If it did please ignore
> this second post ]
> 
> Dear community, 
> 
> it seems I have yet another problem with automatic beaming (similar to
> problems I read about recently).
> What I want LilyPond to do is to beam consecutive 32th notes in a 4/4 time in
> groups of 4 (i.e. 8 groups of 1/8 length each).

What version are you using?  This is an important question, because the
autobeaming is changing right now.

Thanks,

Carl



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Re: drawing a line between a note and a syllabe

[Carl Sorensen]

On 6/14/10 5:15 AM, "Germain G. Ivanoff-Trinadtzaty" 
wrote:

> Dear all,
> Vocal music, with lyrics following 1st voice.
> How to draw a [dashed, dotted, normal] line from the 3rd or 4th voice "do"
> to the syllabe "tse" ?

I know of no way to draw lines between notes and lyrics.  They are in
different contexts.  There may be a way to draw a line to a note whose
'stencil has been changed to #f.

> 
> Ideally, one could adjust a #'position = #'(n . m) property for this line
> (along with #'line-style).
> 
> Similarly, how to draw a left vertical bracket from a note to a line of
> lyrics ? from a note to a note of another staff ? (see attached
> "4-brackets.png")

Similarly, I know of no way to draw a bracket between notes and lyric lines.

Brackets from a note to a note of another staff can be drawn with a
cross-staff arpeggio, with the bracket style of arpeggio.

Hope this helps a little bit,

Carl


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Re: beatLength / beaming in 4/4

[u_li]

Am 14.06.2010 15:04, schrieb Carl Sorensen:



On 6/14/10 5:24 AM, "u_li"  wrote:

   

[sorry if this should be a double post. When I first sent the message I didn't
configure my current email client to use my registered address. As I don't see
my post on the list I assume it didn't get through. If it did please ignore
this second post ]

Dear community,

it seems I have yet another problem with automatic beaming (similar to
problems I read about recently).
What I want LilyPond to do is to beam consecutive 32th notes in a 4/4 time in
groups of 4 (i.e. 8 groups of 1/8 length each).
 

What version are you using?  This is an important question, because the
autobeaming is changing right now.

Thanks,

Carl
   
The example file says "2.13.19" and this is probably true (I say 
probably because I am not at my lilypond computer right now).
So I can just update regularly and hope that my issue ist right now 
being addressed?

Would be quite good luck ;-)

Best
Urs

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multi-tempi

[Hans Roels]

I don't really know Lilypond well (I just had a quick look at the documentation)
but I have some music notation problems and maybe somebody could tell me if
Lilypond is the right tool to solve my problems.

1. Is it possible to create a score with a fixed number of seconds (not bars)
per system? 

2. Is it possible to create a score with different parts/voices that each have a
different tempo? for example a score with a first part in tempo 56 bpm, a second
in 64 bpm and a third in 92 bpm?

3. Would it be possible to create a kind of script/template/score in Lilypond
that imports midi files (or some other file format) and creates a multi-tempo
score after the user has assigned midifile1 to part 1, midifile2 to part
2adjust,... 

I hope someone has some advice!
Hans Roels


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Re: beatLength / beaming in 4/4

[Carl Sorensen]

On 6/14/10 7:18 AM, "u_li"  wrote:

> Am 14.06.2010 15:04, schrieb Carl Sorensen:
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/14/10 5:24 AM, "u_li"  wrote:
>> 
>>   
>>> [sorry if this should be a double post. When I first sent the message I
>>> didn't
>>> configure my current email client to use my registered address. As I don't
>>> see
>>> my post on the list I assume it didn't get through. If it did please ignore
>>> this second post ]
>>> 
>>> Dear community,
>>> 
>>> it seems I have yet another problem with automatic beaming (similar to
>>> problems I read about recently).
>>> What I want LilyPond to do is to beam consecutive 32th notes in a 4/4 time
>>> in
>>> groups of 4 (i.e. 8 groups of 1/8 length each).
>>> 
>> What version are you using?  This is an important question, because the
>> autobeaming is changing right now.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Carl
>>   
> The example file says "2.13.19" and this is probably true (I say
> probably because I am not at my lilypond computer right now).
> So I can just update regularly and hope that my issue ist right now
> being addressed?
> Would be quite good luck ;-)

I couldn't see the example file in my email (the forwarded email came
through as an inlined binary file).

beatLength only adjusts beaming if there is not an explicit rule for the
time signature.  beatLength is mostly used for beam subdivision, rather than
beam division.

See the Notation Reference for setting automatic beam behavior:


You will need to use the overrideBeamSettings command to set this up.

There is currently a patch in review that will change this functionality.
So if you don't need the score in the next week or two, you might want to
wait until the patch is resolved.

Thanks,

Carl




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Re: drawing a line between a note and a syllabe

[Germain G. Ivanoff-Trinadtzaty]

Exactly so : how to create a new engraver (?) say 
"Span_follow_line_engraver" or "Span_line_engraver" that would depend on a 
NoteColumn (context "Voice") and a syllabe (context "Lyrics") ?


Thanks for pointing me to Span_arpeggio_engraver / arpeggioBracket for the 
last case.

Germain

- Original Message - 
From: "Carl Sorensen" 

Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 3:17 PM

On 6/14/10 5:15 AM, "Germain G. Ivanoff-Trinadtzaty" 
wrote:


Dear all,
Vocal music, with lyrics following 1st voice.
How to draw a [dashed, dotted, normal] line from the 3rd or 4th voice "do"
to the syllabe "tse" ?


I know of no way to draw lines between notes and lyrics.  They are in
different contexts.  There may be a way to draw a line to a note whose
'stencil has been changed to #f.



Ideally, one could adjust a #'position = #'(n . m) property for this line
(along with #'line-style).

Similarly, how to draw a left vertical bracket from a note to a line of
lyrics ? from a note to a note of another staff ? (see attached
"4-brackets.png")


Similarly, I know of no way to draw a bracket between notes and lyric lines.

Brackets from a note to a note of another staff can be drawn with a
cross-staff arpeggio, with the bracket style of arpeggio.

Hope this helps a little bit,

Carl


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Re: SOLVED: lilypond-book linewidth: unwanted space at the left of the Staff

[Robert Memering]

Am 10.06.2010 22:02, schrieb Neil Puttock:

On 9 June 2010 12:23, Robert Memering  wrote:


I'm using Lilypond 2.12.2, with the following commands:

lilypond-book --pdf --format=latex --latex-program=pdflatex minimal.lytex
pdflatex minimal.tex


See 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.12/Documentation/user/lilypond-program/Invoking-lilypond_002dbook#Invoking-lilypond_002dbook
for a description of --left-padding.  You should set it to zero to
prevent the line-width being reduced.


That works! Solved!

Thank you very much,
Robert

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Re: multi-tempi

[James Bailey]

On 14.06.2010, at 15:20, Hans Roels wrote:



I don't really know Lilypond well (I just had a quick look at the  
documentation)
but I have some music notation problems and maybe somebody could  
tell me if

Lilypond is the right tool to solve my problems.

1. Is it possible to create a score with a fixed number of seconds  
(not bars)

per system?


I would do this myself. i.e., in 4/4, with a tempo of 4=60, and  
arbitrarily decide 16 seconds per system means s1*4\break




2. Is it possible to create a score with different parts/voices  
that each have a
different tempo? for example a score with a first part in tempo 56  
bpm, a second

in 64 bpm and a third in 92 bpm?


I would do this by calculating the tempo, i.e., 8=128 (8/8) / 4=92  
(4/4) and simply applying the principles in section 1.2.3 of the  
Notation Reference, under Polymetric notation.



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Re: drawing a line between a note and a syllabe

[Carl Sorensen]

On 6/14/10 8:38 AM, "Germain G. Ivanoff-Trinadtzaty" 
wrote:

> Exactly so : how to create a new engraver (?) say
> "Span_follow_line_engraver" or "Span_line_engraver" that would depend on a
> NoteColumn (context "Voice") and a syllabe (context "Lyrics") ?

This is beyond my understanding.  I guess the engraver would need to live in
the StaffGroup context, so it could get events from both the Voice and the
Lyrics.

I've posted my answer to lilypond-devel, as well as to -user, because the
creation of new engravers is probably a -devel topic (although, with the new
Scheme engravers, I guess it can become a -user topic.

Thanks,

Carl

> 
> Thanks for pointing me to Span_arpeggio_engraver / arpeggioBracket for the
> last case.
> Germain
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Carl Sorensen" 
> Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 3:17 PM
> 
> On 6/14/10 5:15 AM, "Germain G. Ivanoff-Trinadtzaty" 
> wrote:
> 
>> Dear all,
>> Vocal music, with lyrics following 1st voice.
>> How to draw a [dashed, dotted, normal] line from the 3rd or 4th voice "do"
>> to the syllabe "tse" ?
> 
> I know of no way to draw lines between notes and lyrics.  They are in
> different contexts.  There may be a way to draw a line to a note whose
> 'stencil has been changed to #f.
> 
>> 
>> Ideally, one could adjust a #'position = #'(n . m) property for this line
>> (along with #'line-style).
>> 
>> Similarly, how to draw a left vertical bracket from a note to a line of
>> lyrics ? from a note to a note of another staff ? (see attached
>> "4-brackets.png")
> 
> Similarly, I know of no way to draw a bracket between notes and lyric lines.
> 
> Brackets from a note to a note of another staff can be drawn with a
> cross-staff arpeggio, with the bracket style of arpeggio.
> 
> Hope this helps a little bit,
> 
> Carl
> 


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Floss weekly podcast

[Joseph Haig]

Have any of the developers considered getting on the Floss Weekly
podcast (http://twit.tv/floss) to promote Lilypond?  Each week they
get people from different open source projects to talk about them.
Just a thought.

Regards,

Joe

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drawing lines (new markups with parameters)

[Germain G. Ivanoff-Trinadtzaty]

Dear all,
please help me with these markups.
Thanks,
Germain

\version 2.12.3

1) Creating a new markup with two (number-pair?) parameters.

- calling :
{ a4-\myline #'(x . y) #'(dx . dy) }

- should produce the same result as :
{ a4-\markup {\postscript #"[0.2 0.4] 0 setdash x y moveto dx dy rline 
stroke"} }


where x, y, dx and dy are numbers.

Tip : reading the file "output-ps.scm" could be of interest (I'm not sure).
Here I have another question : what is the starting point ? (ie, from where 
do we "moveto" (x y) ?

That starting point seems not to change with respect to :
\override TextScript #'self-alignment-X = #CENTER %or #RIGHT or #LEFT
while {a4-"azerty"} does.


2) Creating another new markup with two (number-pair?) parameters.

- calling :
{a4-\mydraw-line #'(x . y) #'(dx . dy) }% maybe the name cannot contain 
a "-"


- should produce the same result as :
{ a4-\draw-line #'(dx . dy) } but starting from #'(x . y) instead of #'(0 . 
0)


dx and dy should be offsets from x and y.

For this second function, there is a (inconvenient) work-around :
{
\override  TextScript #'extra-offset = #'(x . y)
a4-\markup \with-dimensions #'(0 . 0) #'(0 . 0) {
 %\override #'(style . dashed-line)% doesn't work
 %\override #'(thickness . 2)% ok
 %\override #'(X-offset . 2)% doesn't work
 \draw-line #'(dx . dy) }
}

Tip :  this is the definition of built-in "draw-line", from 
"define-markup-commands.scm" :


(define-builtin-markup-command (draw-line layout props dest)
 (number-pair?)
 graphic
 ((thickness 1))
 "drawing lines within text /.../"
 (let ((th (* (ly:output-def-lookup layout 'line-thickness)
  thickness))
   (x (car dest))
   (y (cdr dest)))
   (make-line-stencil th 0 0 x y)))

So I wrote this in my .ly file :

#(define-markup-command (zdraw layout props from dest)
 (number-pair? number-pair?)
 graphic
 ;((thickness 1));; because Lilypond complains about "unbounded 
variable thickness"

 "drawing lines within text /.../"
 (let ((th (* (ly:output-def-lookup layout 'line-thickness)
  1));; was "thickness"
   (x (car from))
   (y (cdr from))
   (dx (car dest))
   (dy (cdr dest)))
   (make-line-stencil th x y (+ x dx) (+ y dy

But it works as expected only with this calling :
{a4-\markup \with-dimensions #'(0 . 0) #'(0 . 0) { \zdraw #'(5 . 0) #'(10 . 
5) }


How to get rid of this "with-dimensions" ?
Is there a way to specify that the line should be dashed ?

Besides this, typing :
{a4-\markup \with-dimensions #'(0 . 0) #'(0 . 0) { \override #'(thickness . 
3) \zdraw #'(5 . 0) #'(10 . 5) }

has no effect on the thickness of the line.


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Rendering umlauts fails

[Michael Käppler]

Hi all,
after using Lilypond a long time on a Linux machine I now tried out 
the Win build. There I encounter a problem which I have never seen 
on Linux AFAIK. If I use Lyrics containing umlauts, sometimes Lily
only doesn't show them, sometimes aborts with plenty of messages like this:

Programmierfehler: invalid UTF-8 string
Fortsetzung, die Daumen drücken

It also reports:

Programmierfehler: Glyph hat keinen Namen, aber Zeichensatz unterstützt 
Glyphnamen.
Glyph U+ wird übersprungen, Datei C:/Program Files 
x86)/LilyPond/usr/share/lilypond/current/fonts/otf/CenturySchL-Roma.otf

I've set enc=utf8 in my vimrc.

Regards,
Michael 


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Re: beatLength / beaming in 4/4

[Gerard McConnell]

For these sort of situtaions I turn \autoBeamOff and use
[ ] to write beams as required.  
Gerard
  - Original Message - 
  From: u_li 
  To: lilypond-user@gnu.org 
  Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 12:24 PM
  Subject: beatLength / beaming in 4/4


  [sorry if this should be a double post. When I first sent the message I 
didn't configure my current email client to use my registered address. As I 
don't see my post on the list I assume it didn't get through. If it did please 
ignore this second post ]


  Dear community, 

  it seems I have yet another problem with automatic beaming (similar to 
problems I read about recently). 
  What I want LilyPond to do is to beam consecutive 32th notes in a 4/4 time in 
groups of 4 (i.e. 8 groups of 1/8 length each). 
  From what I understood from the manual I should simply have to 
 \set beatLength = #(ly:make-moment 1 8) 
  to achieve the desired result. 

  But as you see in the attached example LilyPond gives me four groups of the 
desired length and puts the rest of the bar under one beam. 
  This is the same with different beatLengths (in the example I kept only 3 32, 
but it's the same for 1 16 or 3 16 etc.). 

  In "\time 5/4" everything works as expected 
  In "\time 3/4" I have one beam for each quarter note, regardless of the 
beatLength. 

  I also looked at beam-settings.scm but can't understand if this is an issue 
of correctly overriding the beamSettings (as I have a very hard time 
understanding this anyway) or a bug. For me it looks like after some counter 
variable has reached 4 (the numerator?) somethings goes wrong with the beaming 
mechanism. 

  Thanks in advance for any hints (as I really don't look forward beaming half 
the piece (the 2nd parts of each bar ;-) ) manually). 

  Best 
  Urs






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Re: Rendering umlauts fails

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 2010-06-14 um 17:40 schrieb Michael Käppler:


Hi all,
after using Lilypond a long time on a Linux machine I now tried out
the Win build. There I encounter a problem which I have never seen
on Linux AFAIK. If I use Lyrics containing umlauts, sometimes Lily
only doesn't show them, sometimes aborts with plenty of messages  
like this:


Programmierfehler: invalid UTF-8 string
Fortsetzung, die Daumen drücken

It also reports:

Programmierfehler: Glyph hat keinen Namen, aber Zeichensatz  
unterstützt

Glyphnamen.
Glyph U+ wird übersprungen, Datei C:/Program Files
x86)/LilyPond/usr/share/lilypond/current/fonts/otf/CenturySchL- 
Roma.otf


I've set enc=utf8 in my vimrc.



Check with another editor if your file really is in UTF-8 encoding, I  
doubt it.

Seems also that your shell isn't configured for UTF-8 output.


Greetlings from Lake Constance
---
fiëé visuëlle
Henning Hraban Ramm
http://www.fiee.net
http://angerweit.tikon.ch/lieder/
https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)



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Fwd: multi-tempi

[Ole Schmidt]

forgot to c to mailing list...

> 
> 
> 
> search for "different tempos" in the mailing list archive.
> a thread from a guy namend Kostia from 2008.
> 
> 
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=different+tempos&submit=Search&idxname=lilypond-user
> 
> concerning the midi import there is a midy2ly function, but I don't know if 
> it can handle such a (complex) task.
> 
> 
> hth  ole
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am 14.06.2010 um 15:20 schrieb Hans Roels:
> 
>> 
>> I don't really know Lilypond well (I just had a quick look at the 
>> documentation)
>> but I have some music notation problems and maybe somebody could tell me if
>> Lilypond is the right tool to solve my problems.
>> 
>> 1. Is it possible to create a score with a fixed number of seconds (not bars)
>> per system? 
>> 
>> 2. Is it possible to create a score with different parts/voices that each 
>> have a
>> different tempo? for example a score with a first part in tempo 56 bpm, a 
>> second
>> in 64 bpm and a third in 92 bpm?
>> 
>> 3. Would it be possible to create a kind of script/template/score in Lilypond
>> that imports midi files (or some other file format) and creates a multi-tempo
>> score after the user has assigned midifile1 to part 1, midifile2 to part
>> 2adjust,... 
>> 
>> I hope someone has some advice!
>> Hans Roels
>> 
>> 
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> 

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Re: beatLength / beaming in 4/4

[u_li]

Am 14.06.2010 15:37, schrieb Carl Sorensen:



On 6/14/10 7:18 AM, "u_li"  wrote:

   

Am 14.06.2010 15:04, schrieb Carl Sorensen:
 


On 6/14/10 5:24 AM, "u_li"   wrote:


   

[sorry if this should be a double post. When I first sent the message I
didn't
configure my current email client to use my registered address. As I don't
see
my post on the list I assume it didn't get through. If it did please ignore
this second post ]

Dear community,

it seems I have yet another problem with automatic beaming (similar to
problems I read about recently).
What I want LilyPond to do is to beam consecutive 32th notes in a 4/4 time
in
groups of 4 (i.e. 8 groups of 1/8 length each).

 

What version are you using?  This is an important question, because the
autobeaming is changing right now.

Thanks,

Carl

   

The example file says "2.13.19" and this is probably true (I say
probably because I am not at my lilypond computer right now).
So I can just update regularly and hope that my issue ist right now
being addressed?
Would be quite good luck ;-)
 

I couldn't see the example file in my email (the forwarded email came
through as an inlined binary file).

beatLength only adjusts beaming if there is not an explicit rule for the
time signature.  beatLength is mostly used for beam subdivision, rather than
beam division.
   

OK. But in my example beatLength _did_ adjust beaming, only not correctly.

See the Notation Reference for setting automatic beam behavior:

   
Of course I have read this. More than once. But I have to admit this 
topic is quite complex and the documentation chapter is confusing (at 
least for me). I could solve some issues by studying the snippets but 
not all.
... I just re-read the topic and still find it confusing. But it seems I 
am beginning to comprehend ...

Do I understand the following correctly?

   * in beam-settings.scm there is a default rule for 4/4 time: ((* .
 (1 1 1 1)).
 That is: beams are grouped in four groups of one beatLength (=
 1/4) each.
   * If I set beatLength to a different value the above rule is still
 valid but behaves wrongly because the grouping "1 1 1 1" refers to
 the now changed beatLength.
 Therefore I get four correct groups whereas the remaining notes
 are beamed together because there is no grouping defined anymore
 for them.
   * This is why I have to figure out a correct overrideBeamSettings
 command with an explicit rule for my desired beam type.

???
If someone could confirm this I would happily (well, not really happily, 
but with a good consciensce) try to figure out a usable command on my own.

You will need to use the overrideBeamSettings command to set this up.

There is currently a patch in review that will change this functionality.
So if you don't need the score in the next week or two, you might want to
wait until the patch is resolved.
   
So if this is about the time to wait, I may rathrer do this and then try 
to tackle the technique. There is still so much to do, as well on the 
LilyPond side as for philological decisions, I can calmly put _this_ 
problem aside for a while.

Thank you very much (for the answers and the work your are obviously doing).
Best
Urs

Thanks,

Carl



   


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Re: beatLength / beaming in 4/4

[u_li]

Am 15.06.2010 00:33, schrieb u_li:

Am 14.06.2010 15:37, schrieb Carl Sorensen:


On 6/14/10 7:18 AM, "u_li"  wrote:

   

Am 14.06.2010 15:04, schrieb Carl Sorensen:
 

On 6/14/10 5:24 AM, "u_li"   wrote:


   

[sorry if this should be a double post. When I first sent the message I
didn't
configure my current email client to use my registered address. As I don't
see
my post on the list I assume it didn't get through. If it did please ignore
this second post ]

Dear community,

it seems I have yet another problem with automatic beaming (similar to
problems I read about recently).
What I want LilyPond to do is to beam consecutive 32th notes in a 4/4 time
in
groups of 4 (i.e. 8 groups of 1/8 length each).

 

What version are you using?  This is an important question, because the
autobeaming is changing right now.

Thanks,

Carl

   

The example file says "2.13.19" and this is probably true (I say
probably because I am not at my lilypond computer right now).
So I can just update regularly and hope that my issue ist right now
being addressed?
Would be quite good luck ;-)
 

I couldn't see the example file in my email (the forwarded email came
through as an inlined binary file).

beatLength only adjusts beaming if there is not an explicit rule for the
time signature.  beatLength is mostly used for beam subdivision, rather than
beam division.
   

OK. But in my example beatLength _did_ adjust beaming, only not correctly.

See the Notation Reference for setting automatic beam behavior:

   
Of course I have read this. More than once. But I have to admit this 
topic is quite complex and the documentation chapter is confusing (at 
least for me). I could solve some issues by studying the snippets but 
not all.
... I just re-read the topic and still find it confusing. But it seems 
I am beginning to comprehend ...

Do I understand the following correctly?

* in beam-settings.scm there is a default rule for 4/4 time: ((* .
  (1 1 1 1)).
  That is: beams are grouped in four groups of one beatLength (=
  1/4) each.
* If I set beatLength to a different value the above rule is still
  valid but behaves wrongly because the grouping "1 1 1 1" refers
  to the now changed beatLength.
  Therefore I get four correct groups whereas the remaining notes
  are beamed together because there is no grouping defined anymore
  for them.
* This is why I have to figure out a correct overrideBeamSettings
  command with an explicit rule for my desired beam type.

???
If someone could confirm this I would happily (well, not really 
happily, but with a good consciensce) try to figure out a usable 
command on my own.
Sorry, this is not necessary anymore. I fixed it (my problem and my not 
understanding) with


   \overrideBeamSettings #'Score #'(4 . 4) #'end
 #'(((1 . 8) . (4 4))
((1 . 16) . (2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2))
((1 . 32) . (4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4)))

i.e. an explicit rule for 1/32 beams.
This was just for the record ;-)

Best
Urs

You will need to use the overrideBeamSettings command to set this up.

There is currently a patch in review that will change this functionality.
So if you don't need the score in the next week or two, you might want to
wait until the patch is resolved.
   
So if this is about the time to wait, I may rathrer do this and then 
try to tackle the technique. There is still so much to do, as well on 
the LilyPond side as for philological decisions, I can calmly put 
_this_ problem aside for a while.
Thank you very much (for the answers and the work your are obviously 
doing).

Best
Urs

Thanks,

Carl



   



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Re: beatLength / beaming in 4/4

[Xavier Scheuer]

2010/6/15 u_li :

> Sorry, this is not necessary anymore. I fixed it (my problem and my
> not understanding) with
>
> \overrideBeamSettings #'Score #'(4 . 4) #'end
>  #'(((1 . 8) . (4 4))
>     ((1 . 16) . (2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2))
>     ((1 . 32) . (4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4)))
>
> i.e. an explicit rule for 1/32 beams.
> This was just for the record ;-)

This is just a workaround.  Having a look at your attached file in your
first message still make me think the _default_ behaviour of using

  \set beatLength = #(ly:make-moment 1 8)

in 4/4 time is *unconsistent* (only the 2 first beats are affected).

I think this issue is the same as #1083, although you use only
\set beatLength = #(ly:make-moment 1 8) , not in conjunction with
  \set subdivideBeams = ##t .
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1083


@Carl:
Could you have a look and state if it is actually the same issue?

I have seen with interest  http://codereview.appspot.com/1667041/show
Thanks a lot for your work on beaming rules!

Cheers,
Xavier

PS: Cc to bug- (while asking Carl for relation with #1083).

--
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Re: beatLength / beaming in 4/4

[Carl Sorensen]

On 6/14/10 5:07 PM, "Xavier Scheuer"  wrote:

> 2010/6/15 u_li :
> 
>> Sorry, this is not necessary anymore. I fixed it (my problem and my
>> not understanding) with
>> 
>> \overrideBeamSettings #'Score #'(4 . 4) #'end
>>  #'(((1 . 8) . (4 4))
>>     ((1 . 16) . (2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2))
>>     ((1 . 32) . (4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4)))
>> 
>> i.e. an explicit rule for 1/32 beams.
>> This was just for the record ;-)

Yes, this is the correct fix for your problem.

> 
> This is just a workaround.  Having a look at your attached file in your
> first message still make me think the _default_ behaviour of using
> 
>   \set beatLength = #(ly:make-moment 1 8)
> 
> in 4/4 time is *unconsistent* (only the 2 first beats are affected).

The _default_ behavior, as you call it, is not really the _default_
behavior.  beatLength should not affect beaming if a default rule is
defined.  The fact that it does is a bug that will be fixed in the new code.
> 
> I think this issue is the same as #1083, although you use only
> \set beatLength = #(ly:make-moment 1 8) , not in conjunction with
>   \set subdivideBeams = ##t .
> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1083
> 
> 
> @Carl:
> Could you have a look and state if it is actually the same issue?

Yes, it is the same issue.

Thanks,

Carl

> 
> I have seen with interest  http://codereview.appspot.com/1667041/show
> Thanks a lot for your work on beaming rules!

Don't thank me until you see if it's better ;)

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: beatLength / beaming in 4/4

[Xavier Scheuer]

2010/6/15 Carl Sorensen :

> The _default_ behavior, as you call it, is not really the _default_
> behavior.  beatLength should not affect beaming if a default rule is
> defined.  The fact that it does is a bug that will be fixed in the
> new code.

OK, but it was still *unconsistent*.  ;D


> Yes, it is the same issue.

And does your "new code" also fix this issue perchance?


> Don't thank me until you see if it's better ;)

Actually I haven't tried it now (I use the last released development
version but I'm not used to compile from git or to apply new patches
per myself right now).

I have had a look at your patch's changes into the doc however, but
I'll certainly need some time to understand it deeply, to test it and
to get used to it before I eventually could say if it's better.  ;)

(too bad I fully understood \overrideBeamSettings just a couple of
weeks ago, I got used to it and was very proud of that!)  ;DD

Cheers,
Xavier

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Alternative polymetric representation

[Arle Lommel]

(Sorry for the lengthy post, but a couple of issues came up when I tried to 
work with an older file I did some time ago.)

About 18 months ago Reinhold helped me figure out how to display time 
signatures like (3+3+4)/16 in which there is a complex upper portion of the 
time signature over a simple lower portion. Reinhold provided a fairly complex 
fix at that time, but with updating from 2.12.2 to 2.13.18, it runs into some 
problems with beat grouping. In particular running the convert does a 
reasonable job except for this error:

> Not smart enough to convert beatGrouping. 
>beatGrouping with a specified context must now be accomplished with
>\overrideBeamSettings.
> Please refer to the manual for details, and update manually.

OK. Fair enough, I need to look at the current manual, but there are some 
problems with the documentation online that make this problematic.

If I go to here:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13//Documentation/web/manuals.html

and search, it does not search the 2.13 documentation, but the 2.12 
documentation (where \overrideBeamSettings is, for obvious reasons, not found).

So I modify the search string to change the version number to 2.13. Not a big 
deal, just a minor annoyance, but it only brings up one hit:

http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13/Documentation/ce/lily-547b3574.ly

Which returns a 404. (And the Google hit doesn't have a cache to look at!)

So the question is where can I find the documentation for 
\overrideBeamSettings? I'd like to consult that *before* I come here and get a 
RTFM response, but in this case it seems that TFM doesn't exist.

For what it's worth, what I'm trying to get right is the equivalent in function 
to 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13//Documentation/snippets/rhythms#changing-time-signatures-inside-a-polymetric-section-using-_005cscaledurations
 , but the display is quite a bit different in appearance and cleaner, e.,g.,

<>
That was the output from 2.12.2. If I convert it and convert to PDF, I get the 
following, which is (obviously) not what I want:

<>

(I'm not sure why the first line only is doubled.)

At the time I first got Reinhold's solution, I believe he said that this time 
signature notation would make it into the trunk for 2.13, but I'm not entirely 
certain I recall that right.

So my question is if there is now a preferred way to accomplish this sort of 
time signature in 2.13.x with autobeaming (and hopefully no unexplained 
duplication of the first line of the *monophonic* score)

If anyone wants to see the entire scores in question, here is the link to the 
original Lilypond file for 2.12.2, which worked under that version:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/223919/lilypond/compound.ly

And here is the PDF:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/223919/lilypond/compound.pdf

Here is the link to the output from the convert function (2.13.18):

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/223919/lilypond/compound2.ly

And the PDF it makes:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/223919/lilypond/compound2.pdf

Any guidance on this would be welcome since this is digging into some pretty 
obscure code.

Thanks in advance for any insights,

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Re: beatLength / beaming in 4/4

[Carl Sorensen]

On 6/14/10 5:45 PM, "Xavier Scheuer"  wrote:

> 2010/6/15 Carl Sorensen :
> 
>> The _default_ behavior, as you call it, is not really the _default_
>> behavior.  beatLength should not affect beaming if a default rule is
>> defined.  The fact that it does is a bug that will be fixed in the
>> new code.
> 
> OK, but it was still *unconsistent*.  ;D
> 

I agree.

> 
>> Yes, it is the same issue.
> 
> And does your "new code" also fix this issue perchance?

Yes, it does.

> 
> (too bad I fully understood \overrideBeamSettings just a couple of
> weeks ago, I got used to it and was very proud of that!)  ;DD

If you understand \overrideBeamSettings, I think you'll find the new syntax
is even easier to understand and more useful.

Thanks,

Carl


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Re: Alternative polymetric representation

[Carl Sorensen]

On 6/14/10 6:24 PM, "Arle Lommel"  wrote:

> (Sorry for the lengthy post, but a couple of issues came up when I tried to
> work with an older file I did some time ago.)
> 
> About 18 months ago Reinhold helped me figure out how to display time
> signatures like (3+3+4)/16 in which there is a complex upper portion of the
> time signature over a simple lower portion. Reinhold provided a fairly complex
> fix at that time, but with updating from 2.12.2 to 2.13.18, it runs into some
> problems with beat grouping. In particular running the convert does a
> reasonable job except for this error:
> 
>> Not smart enough to convert beatGrouping.
>>beatGrouping with a specified context must now be accomplished with
>>\overrideBeamSettings.
>> Please refer to the manual for details, and update manually.
> 
> OK. Fair enough, I need to look at the current manual, but there are some
> problems with the documentation online that make this problematic.
> 
> If I go to here:
> 
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.13//Documentation/web/manuals.html
> 
> and search, it does not search the 2.13 documentation, but the 2.12
> documentation (where \overrideBeamSettings is, for obvious reasons, not
> found).

> 
> So the question is where can I find the documentation for
> \overrideBeamSettings? I'd like to consult that *before* I come here and get a
> RTFM response, but in this case it seems that TFM doesn't exist.

Instead of searching, go to the Notation Reference, and use the LilyPond
index.  There's an entry for overrideBeamSettings.



HTH,

Carl

P.S.  There is another change in autobeam syntax currently in review, so if
this isn't time critical, you may want to wait a week or two.



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Re: Alternative polymetric representation

[Alexander Kobel]

On 2010-06-15 02:24, Arle Lommel wrote:

So the question is where can I find the documentation for \overrideBeamSettings?


Hi, Arle,

look at . 
You can find it via
www.lilypond.org > Documentation (at the top) > LilyPond 2.13 (second in 
the list) > Notation (Regular use section)



I'd like to consult that *before* I come here and get a RTFM response, but in 
this case it seems that TFM doesn't exist.


You're welcome.  Anyone describing your odyssey in detail surely is not 
just exploiting our time. :-)
The website for the upcoming 2.13 / 2.14 branch is still under 
construction, thus it's hidden deeper than one might expect.



HTH,
Alexander

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Re: Alternative polymetric representation

[Arle Lommel]

Thanks to Alexander for the quick fix. I hadn't found that bit (obviously), in 
part because I wasn't thinking about it in the context of beams, but rather in 
the context of polymetric time signatures and that problem. Had I thought to 
look in the semi-obvious place, I suppose I would have found it.

Carl, it's not time critical, especially now that I have a workaround that 
restores the former behavior. But I'll be curious to see how the new autobeam 
syntax works (especially in conjunction with my unusual metrical requirements). 
Is there some way to sign up to be notified of changes in particular areas of 
Lilypond? I'm particularly interested in anything to do with simplifying 
polymetric time signatures. If I were a real programmer (rather than a PHP 
kludger), I would gladly volunteer to work on this area of the program.

Finally, I found the cause for the duplication of my first line: it was simply 
duplicated in the source file. I have no idea why that happened, but it was NOT 
Lilypond's fault.

Best,

Arle
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Percussion stick signs

[胡海鹏 - Hu Haipeng]

Hello,
  Today I get a score from my composition teacher. The piece is for orchestra 
with various instruments. In the perc part, he uses some stick signs such as 
hard xylophone stick, soft timpani stick. I don't know how these sticks look 
like, but hope Lilypond can do them. I don't know whether they are in the 
Gigsaw, but the Gigsaw is perhaps only for Linux. Any advice?
  If you want to see the sticks, please search on Rapidshare or 4shared for 
"orchestration". There's a book by Samuel Adler, in which he listed out various 
sticks.

Regards
Haipeng




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Re: Percussion stick signs

[jos?? henrique padovani]

Em 14/06/10 22:56, ?? - Hu Haipeng escreveu:


Hello,
Today I get a score from my composition teacher. The piece is for 
orchestra with various instruments. In the perc part, he uses some 
stick signs such as hard xylophone stick, soft timpani stick.


To insert those symbols I use the Controla font provided by Christian 
Texier... (http://pagespro-orange.fr/christian.texier/mididesi/)


after installing the font, you may want to create variables to be able 
to write the markups quickly..



example:

%cello bow for percussion (vibraphone)
percarco = \markup {\override #'(font-name . "Controla") %loads Controla 
font

\fontsize #5
"P" %bow char
}


c4^\percarco



cheers,
jos??

--
http://zepadovani.info


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