german chords
I think I've figured it out. If someone could just confirm for me (it
seems to work okay) that this won't break anything fundamental, I'll
add it to my \include file.
partialGermanChords = {
\set chordRootNamer = #(chord-name->german-markup #t)
% \set chordNoteNamer = #note-name->german-markup
}
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Re: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
2008/11/3 Ralph Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Francisco - > > Nice work. I don't see any problem with your English. I am neither a > developer or a new user, but I do think I might be intimidated by the page > if I were a new user accustomed to working only from a GUI. I also think > that I would be more intrigued than intimidated if one of the first things I > saw on an introductory page was an example - maybe fairly simple. > > Ralph Well, on clicking the tutorial link this is the first thing you see. Thank you, I'll take it into account. Also thanks to John for his recent improvements made to it. -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) http://www.paconet.org ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
colliding rests puzzle
If someone has a moment to look at this and give me some idea what the
problem might be, I'd appreciate it. I've always been able to figure
this out, before, but not now. This is only 3 bars of the score, but the
problem is cropping up like dandelions!
Here's the console output I'm getting, followed by the Lilypond code -
=== begin console ===
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/Music/Music scores/Lilypond$ lilypond
prelude_and_adagio-Em_2.ly
GNU LilyPond 2.11.62
Processing `prelude_and_adagio-Em_2.ly'
Parsing...
Interpreting music...
Preprocessing graphical objects...
Interpreting music...
MIDI output to `prelude_and_adagio-Em_2.midi'...
Finding the ideal number of pages...
Fitting music on 1 page...
Drawing systems...
warning: too many colliding rests
warning: too many colliding rests
warning: too many colliding rests
Layout output to `prelude_and_adagio-Em_2.ps'...
Converting to `./prelude_and_adagio-Em_2.pdf'...
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/Music/Music scores/Lilypond$
=== end console ===
===begin code ===
\version "2.11.62"
#(set-global-staff-size 20) % 20 this is said to be standard for most scores
date = #(strftime "%Y.%m.%d" (localtime (current-time))) % define a
variable to hold the formatted date
#(define RH rightHandFinger) %assigns value to RH
\header {
% * centered top *
title = "Prelude and Adagio in E minor"
subtitle = "Adagio"
subsubtitle = \markup { "2008.09.09 - version" \date } %centered below
subtitle - and smaller font
instrument = "Classical Guitar" %{ centered below the subsubtitle,
and at the top of pages (other than the first page). %}
% * flush right *
composer = \markup \center-column {"Tom Cloyd" \small
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" } %flush right meter = "Adaghietto"
% * centered, bottom of page *
copyright = "© 2008 Tom Cloyd" %centered at the bottom of the first page
tagline = \markup { \small "score set with Lilipond
(http://lilypond.org/web/)"} % centered at the bottom of the last page
}
\paper {
#(set-default-paper-size "letter" 'portrait)
ragged-last-bottom = ##t % turns off vertical justify
left-margin = 0.6\in
line-width = 7\in % works better than specifying R-margin
bottom-margin = 0.7\in
top-margin = 0.7\in
}
% variables =
% LH fingering orientations
sfol = \set fingeringOrientations = #'(left)
sfor = \set fingeringOrientations = #'(right)
sfod = \set fingeringOrientations = #'(down)
sfou = \set fingeringOrientations = #'(up)
% RH fingering orientations
ssfol = \set StrokeFingerOrientations = #'(left)
ssfor = \set StrokeFingerOrientations = #'(right)
ssfod = \set StrokeFingerOrientations = #'(down)
ssfou = \set StrokeFingerOrientations = #'(up)
% string number orientations
ssnol = \set stringNumberOrientations = #'(left) %(down right up)
ssnou = \set stringNumberOrientations = #'(up)
ssnod = \set stringNumberOrientations = #'(down)
ssnor = \set stringNumberOrientations = #'(right)
% VOICE ONE
melody = \relative c' {
\clef "treble_8"
\key g \major
\time 4/4
\tempo "Adagio" %{ metronome marking will be in parentheses, if
accompanied by verbal tempo marking; or just precede it with empty
parentheses to obtain metron. marking in parens. %}
\voiceOne
\sfol %LH fingering placement
%\ssfor %RH fingering placement
\ssnol %string number placement
r4 < f-\tweak #'extra-offset #'(0 . 1)-4-\tweak #'extra-offset #'(0 .
1)\2 e-0 c-2\3 > < g-1 e-3 b-2\3 >2 |
r4 < a-1 fis-3 dis-4 > < b-3 g-4\2 c,-1 >2 |
r4 < fis-2 dis-3 c-\tweak #'extra-offset #'(0 . -0.5)-4-\tweak
#'extra-offset #'(0 . -0.5)\3 > < g-2 b,-3 e,-1 >\laissezVibrer s4 |
}
% VOICE THREE ===
tenor = \relative c' {
\voiceThree
\stemDown
\sfol %LH fingering placement
%\ssfor %RH fingering placement
\ssnol %string number placement
a,2 e |
< b'-2\6 > a |
< c-2 > e, |
}
% VOICE TWO
bass = \relative c {
\voiceTwo
\sfol %LH fingering placement
%\ssfor %RH fingering placement
\ssnol %string number placement
e2.\rest < g-4 >4 |
f2.\rest < a-2 >4 |
e2.\rest < e'-4 >8 d, |
}
% following is a template
%% -\tweak #'extra-offset #'(0 . 0)
\score {
\context Staff = "guitar" \with {
\consists "Span_arpeggio_engraver"
}
<<
%\set Staff.instrumentName="Classical Guitar" %puts name to left
of line one
\set Staff.midiInstrument="acoustic guitar (nylon)"
\set Staff.connectArpeggios = ##t
\context Voice = "melody" \melody
\context Voice = "tenor" \tenor
\context Voice = "bass" \bass
>>
\layout {
indent = 0.0\cm % remove indent on first staff
}
\midi { %causes generation of midi score
}
}
=== end code ===
--
~
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC - Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> (email)
<< TomCloyd.com >>
share note stem between voice
Hi list, I want to digitalize a music sheet I have here. It have some special feature, and I want to replicate it. See http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stemnr2.png Red note-heads are voice 1, Blue note-head are voice 2. As you can see: - both voice share the same stem - the stem directory always towards voice 2 - when two voice are on the same note, two stem are drew I know I can use the \stemUp / \stemDown to do this manually, but I want to know if there are any easier ways. thanks ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: colliding rests puzzle
Hi Tom,
Are the console warnings what concern you, or is it the output you're
getting? Certain scores of mine get error warnings like this but as
long as it compiles and the output looks like I want, I ignore the
warnings.
The output of your code looks pretty good to me. :)
Jon
Tom Cloyd wrote:
If someone has a moment to look at this and give me some idea what the
problem might be, I'd appreciate it. I've always been able to figure
this out, before, but not now. This is only 3 bars of the score, but the
problem is cropping up like dandelions!
Here's the console output I'm getting, followed by the Lilypond code -
=== begin console ===
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/Music/Music scores/Lilypond$ lilypond
prelude_and_adagio-Em_2.ly
GNU LilyPond 2.11.62
Processing `prelude_and_adagio-Em_2.ly'
Parsing...
Interpreting music...
Preprocessing graphical objects...
Interpreting music...
MIDI output to `prelude_and_adagio-Em_2.midi'...
Finding the ideal number of pages...
Fitting music on 1 page...
Drawing systems...
warning: too many colliding rests
warning: too many colliding rests
warning: too many colliding rests
Layout output to `prelude_and_adagio-Em_2.ps'...
Converting to `./prelude_and_adagio-Em_2.pdf'...
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/Music/Music scores/Lilypond$
=== end console ===
===begin code ===
\version "2.11.62"
#(set-global-staff-size 20) % 20 this is said to be standard for most
scores
date = #(strftime "%Y.%m.%d" (localtime (current-time))) % define a
variable to hold the formatted date
#(define RH rightHandFinger) %assigns value to RH
\header {
% * centered top * title = "Prelude and Adagio in E minor"
subtitle = "Adagio"
subsubtitle = \markup { "2008.09.09 - version" \date } %centered below
subtitle - and smaller fontinstrument = "Classical Guitar" %{
centered below the subsubtitle, and at the top of pages (other than the
first page). %}
% * flush right *
composer = \markup \center-column {"Tom Cloyd" \small "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
} %flush right meter = "Adaghietto"
% * centered, bottom of page *copyright = "© 2008 Tom
Cloyd" %centered at the bottom of the first page
tagline = \markup { \small "score set with Lilipond
(http://lilypond.org/web/)"} % centered at the bottom of the last page
}
\paper {
#(set-default-paper-size "letter" 'portrait)
ragged-last-bottom = ##t % turns off vertical justify
left-margin = 0.6\in
line-width = 7\in % works better than specifying R-margin
bottom-margin = 0.7\in
top-margin = 0.7\in
}
% variables =
% LH fingering orientations
sfol = \set fingeringOrientations = #'(left)
sfor = \set fingeringOrientations = #'(right)
sfod = \set fingeringOrientations = #'(down)
sfou = \set fingeringOrientations = #'(up)
% RH fingering orientations
ssfol = \set StrokeFingerOrientations = #'(left)
ssfor = \set StrokeFingerOrientations = #'(right)
ssfod = \set StrokeFingerOrientations = #'(down)
ssfou = \set StrokeFingerOrientations = #'(up)
% string number orientations
ssnol = \set stringNumberOrientations = #'(left) %(down right up)
ssnou = \set stringNumberOrientations = #'(up)
ssnod = \set stringNumberOrientations = #'(down)
ssnor = \set stringNumberOrientations = #'(right)
% VOICE ONE melody = \relative
c' {
\clef "treble_8"
\key g \major
\time 4/4
\tempo "Adagio" %{ metronome marking will be in parentheses, if
accompanied by verbal tempo marking; or just precede it with empty
parentheses to obtain metron. marking in parens. %} \voiceOne
\sfol %LH fingering placement
%\ssfor %RH fingering placement
\ssnol %string number placement r4 < f-\tweak #'extra-offset #'(0 .
1)-4-\tweak #'extra-offset #'(0 . 1)\2 e-0 c-2\3 > < g-1 e-3 b-2\3 >2 |
r4 < a-1 fis-3 dis-4 > < b-3 g-4\2 c,-1 >2 |
r4 < fis-2 dis-3 c-\tweak #'extra-offset #'(0 . -0.5)-4-\tweak
#'extra-offset #'(0 . -0.5)\3 > < g-2 b,-3 e,-1 >\laissezVibrer s4 |
}
% VOICE THREE ===
tenor = \relative c' {
\voiceThree
\stemDown
\sfol %LH fingering placement
%\ssfor %RH fingering placement
\ssnol %string number placement
a,2 e |
< b'-2\6 > a |
< c-2 > e, |
}
% VOICE TWO
bass = \relative c {
\voiceTwo
\sfol %LH fingering placement
%\ssfor %RH fingering placement
\ssnol %string number placement
e2.\rest < g-4 >4 |
f2.\rest < a-2 >4 |
e2.\rest < e'-4 >8 d, |
}
% following is a template
%% -\tweak #'extra-offset #'(0 . 0)
\score {
\context Staff = "guitar" \with {
\consists "Span_arpeggio_engraver"
}
<<
%\set Staff.instrumentName="Classical Guitar" %puts name to left
of line one
\set Staff.midiInstrument="acoustic guitar (nylon)"
\set Staff.connectArpeggios = ##t
\context Voice = "melody" \melody
\context Voice = "tenor" \tenor
\context Voice = "bass" \bass
>>
\layout {
indent = 0.0\cm % remove indent on first
Re: colliding rests puzzle
Your rests collide because they aren't where lilypond wants them. If
you let lilypond place the rest, instead of specifically placing them
(e2.\rest) then you'll see where lilypond wants them, you'll also
shouldn't get that error.
Am 03.11.2008 um 14:33 schrieb Tom Cloyd:
If someone has a moment to look at this and give me some idea what
the problem might be, I'd appreciate it. I've always been able to
figure this out, before, but not now. This is only 3 bars of the
score, but the problem is cropping up like dandelions!
Here's the console output I'm getting, followed by the Lilypond code -
=== begin console ===
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/Music/Music scores/Lilypond$ lilypond
prelude_and_adagio-Em_2.ly
GNU LilyPond 2.11.62
Processing `prelude_and_adagio-Em_2.ly'
Parsing...
Interpreting music...
Preprocessing graphical objects...
Interpreting music...
MIDI output to `prelude_and_adagio-Em_2.midi'...
Finding the ideal number of pages...
Fitting music on 1 page...
Drawing systems...
warning: too many colliding rests
warning: too many colliding rests
warning: too many colliding rests
Layout output to `prelude_and_adagio-Em_2.ps'...
Converting to `./prelude_and_adagio-Em_2.pdf'...
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/Music/Music scores/Lilypond$
=== end console ===
===begin code ===
\version "2.11.62"
#(set-global-staff-size 20) % 20 this is said to be standard for
most scores
date = #(strftime "%Y.%m.%d" (localtime (current-time))) % define a
variable to hold the formatted date
#(define RH rightHandFinger) %assigns value to RH
\header {
% * centered top * title = "Prelude and Adagio in E minor"
subtitle = "Adagio"
subsubtitle = \markup { "2008.09.09 - version" \date } %centered
below subtitle - and smaller fontinstrument = "Classical
Guitar" %{ centered below the subsubtitle, and at the top of pages
(other than the first page). %}
% * flush right *
composer = \markup \center-column {"Tom Cloyd" \small
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" } %flush right meter = "Adaghietto"% *
centered, bottom of page *copyright = "© 2008 Tom Cloyd"
%centered at the bottom of the first page
tagline = \markup { \small "score set with Lilipond (http://lilypond.org/web/
)"} % centered at the bottom of the last page
}
\paper {
#(set-default-paper-size "letter" 'portrait)
ragged-last-bottom = ##t % turns off vertical justify
left-margin = 0.6\in
line-width = 7\in % works better than specifying R-margin
bottom-margin = 0.7\in
top-margin = 0.7\in
}
% variables =
% LH fingering orientations
sfol = \set fingeringOrientations = #'(left)
sfor = \set fingeringOrientations = #'(right)
sfod = \set fingeringOrientations = #'(down)
sfou = \set fingeringOrientations = #'(up)
% RH fingering orientations
ssfol = \set StrokeFingerOrientations = #'(left)
ssfor = \set StrokeFingerOrientations = #'(right)
ssfod = \set StrokeFingerOrientations = #'(down)
ssfou = \set StrokeFingerOrientations = #'(up)
% string number orientations
ssnol = \set stringNumberOrientations = #'(left) %(down right up)
ssnou = \set stringNumberOrientations = #'(up)
ssnod = \set stringNumberOrientations = #'(down)
ssnor = \set stringNumberOrientations = #'(right)
% VOICE ONE melody =
\relative c' {
\clef "treble_8"
\key g \major
\time 4/4
\tempo "Adagio" %{ metronome marking will be in parentheses, if
accompanied by verbal tempo marking; or just precede it with empty
parentheses to obtain metron. marking in parens. %} \voiceOne
\sfol %LH fingering placement
%\ssfor %RH fingering placement
\ssnol %string number placement r4 < f-\tweak #'extra-offset #'(0 .
1)-4-\tweak #'extra-offset #'(0 . 1)\2 e-0 c-2\3 > < g-1 e-3 b-2\3
>2 |
r4 < a-1 fis-3 dis-4 > < b-3 g-4\2 c,-1 >2 |
r4 < fis-2 dis-3 c-\tweak #'extra-offset #'(0 . -0.5)-4-\tweak
#'extra-offset #'(0 . -0.5)\3 > < g-2 b,-3 e,-1 >\laissezVibrer s4 |
}
% VOICE THREE ===
tenor = \relative c' {
\voiceThree
\stemDown
\sfol %LH fingering placement
%\ssfor %RH fingering placement
\ssnol %string number placement
a,2 e |
< b'-2\6 > a |
< c-2 > e, |
}
% VOICE TWO
bass = \relative c {
\voiceTwo
\sfol %LH fingering placement
%\ssfor %RH fingering placement
\ssnol %string number placement
e2.\rest < g-4 >4 |
f2.\rest < a-2 >4 |
e2.\rest < e'-4 >8 d, |
}
% following is a template
%% -\tweak #'extra-offset #'(0 . 0)
\score {
\context Staff = "guitar" \with {
\consists "Span_arpeggio_engraver"
}
<<
%\set Staff.instrumentName="Classical Guitar" %puts name to
left of line one
\set Staff.midiInstrument="acoustic guitar (nylon)"
\set Staff.connectArpeggios = ##t
\context Voice = "melody" \melody
\context Voice = "tenor" \tenor
\context Voice = "bass" \bass
>>
\layout {
indent = 0.0\cm % remove indent on first staff
}
\midi { %causes generation of midi score
}
}
=== end co
Re: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 12:52:25AM +0100, Francisco Vila wrote: > http://lilypondwiki.tuxfamily.org/index.php?title=Where_is_the_app%3F > > Which sometimes makes me think that the page is sooo bad that no one > dares to comment it. Does anyone think it could be remotely useful? Mao. Why am I always the one to speak the nasty, sensible facts? - The problem is not explaining how to use lilypond. We have the tutorial for that. If the tutorial isn't clear, improve the tutorial. - 95% of the people who post "where r teh buttonz" will never even try to use lilypond once they realize that they can't do things with a mouse, so don't bother trying to explain it to them. - the remaining 5% can use lilypond perfectly well after reading the docs. - new users neither know, nor care, about the tuxfamily wiki. However, it's still useful to have a webpage that you can point people to. But they won't discover this page on their own. What's the real solution to this? - when lilypond is run for the first time on windows or OSX, it pops up a box that says something like "You must read the docs". Or maybe slightly longer, like "To use LilyPond, you must write text files which define the music. To learn how to do this, read the docs." Maybe with a clickable URL in there. No, wait; that would require an internet connection. Dump a copy of the relevant tutorial pages (HTML and/or pdf) with the installer. Of course, this requires screwing around with the windows GUI code, which 1) isn't in the normal git source, 2) is a pain, and 3) requires people to care about windows. My overall point is this: the solution to "people aren't reading the documentation" is NOT to add more documentation. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
Am 03.11.2008 um 15:12 schrieb Graham Percival: On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 12:52:25AM +0100, Francisco Vila wrote: http://lilypondwiki.tuxfamily.org/index.php?title=Where_is_the_app%3F Which sometimes makes me think that the page is sooo bad that no one dares to comment it. Does anyone think it could be remotely useful? Mao. Why am I always the one to speak the nasty, sensible facts? - The problem is not explaining how to use lilypond. We have the tutorial for that. If the tutorial isn't clear, improve the tutorial. - 95% of the people who post "where r teh buttonz" will never even try to use lilypond once they realize that they can't do things with a mouse, so don't bother trying to explain it to them. - the remaining 5% can use lilypond perfectly well after reading the docs. - new users neither know, nor care, about the tuxfamily wiki. However, it's still useful to have a webpage that you can point people to. But they won't discover this page on their own. What's the real solution to this? - when lilypond is run for the first time on windows or OSX, it pops up a box that says something like "You must read the docs". Or maybe slightly longer, like "To use LilyPond, you must write text files which define the music. To learn how to do this, read the docs." Maybe with a clickable URL in there. No, wait; that would require an internet connection. Dump a copy of the relevant tutorial pages (HTML and/or pdf) with the installer. Of course, this requires screwing around with the windows GUI code, which 1) isn't in the normal git source, 2) is a pain, and 3) requires people to care about windows. My overall point is this: the solution to "people aren't reading the documentation" is NOT to add more documentation. Except the problem wasn't "people aren't reading the documentation", the problem is "new users post to the wrong list". On a completely unrelated note, I disagree completely with you that the solution to "people aren't reading the documentation in NOT to add more documentation" what is clearly understandable on a first read by you, is not clearly understandable on a first read by everyone. I think that having documentation that explains everything is very good. I also think having the documentation explained using different words and examples is also good. I have the impression that you have a personal vendetta against redundancy, maybe your job was made redundant, I don't know, but I think redundancy, especially when it comes to explanation, as long as the explanations are all accurate, can only be beneficial. Perhaps you would rather that someone who will take the time to occasionally add something to a wiki-like tutorial devote that time to another existing project. It's nice to want things. I'd like to be able to upload a snippet to the LSR. I've not reached enlightenment in my zen buddhism, but I'm learning more and more that wanting things is a really easy to be disappointed. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
Redundancy is not the solution. Yes, in general, repetition is a good technique to become familiar with something unknown. The first read gives questionmarks, the second one gives the Aha's. But it is almost impossible to maintain documentation if the information is somehow duplicated over different locations. The adagium "Single Point Of Information" is much more important than Redundancy, especially for rapid-changing programs like Lilypond. Toine Schreurs > On a completely unrelated note, I disagree completely with you that > the solution to "people aren't reading the documentation in NOT to add > more documentation" what is clearly understandable on a first read by > you, is not clearly understandable on a first read by everyone. I > think that having documentation that explains everything is very good. > I also think having the documentation explained using different words > and examples is also good. I have the impression that you have a > personal vendetta against redundancy, maybe your job was made > redundant, I don't know, but I think redundancy, especially when it > comes to explanation, as long as the explanations are all accurate, > can only be beneficial. Perhaps you would rather that someone who will > take the time to occasionally add something to a wiki-like tutorial > devote that time to another existing project. It's nice to want > things. I'd like to be able to upload a snippet to the LSR. I've not > reached enlightenment in my zen buddhism, but I'm learning more and > more that wanting things is a really easy to be disappointed. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
2008/11/3 Bailey James E. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Except the problem wasn't "people aren't reading the documentation", the > problem is "new users post to the wrong list". Which is encouraged from our webpage, as Valentin discovered. > I think that having > documentation that explains everything is very good. I also think having the > documentation explained using different words and examples is also good. I > have the impression that you have a personal vendetta against redundancy, > (...) Overmore, a terse documentation with zero redundancy is perfect for programmers only. -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) http://www.paconet.org ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
2008/11/3 Toine Schreurs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Redundancy is not the solution. Yes, in general, repetition is a good > technique to become familiar with something unknown. The first read gives > questionmarks, the second one gives the Aha's. > > But it is almost impossible to maintain documentation if the information > is somehow duplicated over different locations. > The adagium "Single Point Of Information" is much more important than > Redundancy, especially for rapid-changing programs like Lilypond. I don't think that an informal page like the one I linked needs to be in the official documentation, and it is not affected by changes in LilyPond. Granted, there *is* an official FAQ page, but it is not evolving, it is outdated (e.g. speaks about sponsoring). We should remember it exists and maintain it, link more frequently to it... or use a wiki. -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) http://www.paconet.org ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
2008/11/3 Graham Percival <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > - The problem is not explaining how to use lilypond. We have the > tutorial for that. If the tutorial isn't clear, improve the > tutorial. I still advocate for a not-so-serious resource from users to users. > - 95% of the people who post "where r teh buttonz" will never even > try to use lilypond once they realize that they can't do things > with a mouse, so don't bother trying to explain it to them. > > - the remaining 5% can use lilypond perfectly well after reading > the docs. I still know about another 5% that will use it if they survive to the first hour, before reading the docs. But among others, first impression needs to improve, remember the bugs of Welcome_to_lilypond.ly ? > - new users neither know, nor care, about the tuxfamily wiki. > However, it's still useful to have a webpage that you can point > people to. But they won't discover this page on their own. Definitely! > What's the real solution to this? > - when lilypond is run for the first time on windows or OSX, it > pops up a box that says something like "You must read the docs". > Or maybe slightly longer, like "To use LilyPond, you must write > text files which define the music. To learn how to do this, > read the docs." Maybe with a clickable URL in there. > No, wait; that would require an internet connection. Dump a > copy of the relevant tutorial pages (HTML and/or pdf) with the > installer. I propose to put a README.txt on the Desktop which we can say new users to read. It should include the FAQ, at very least. > Of course, this requires screwing around with the windows GUI > code, which 1) isn't in the normal git source, 2) is a pain, and > 3) requires people to care about windows. I do not volunteer, but I sent a patch against Spanish resources of lilypad.exe. I'm CCing to -devel. -- Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) http://www.paconet.org ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
Francisco - Nice work. I don't see any problem with your English. I am neither a developer or a new user, but I do think I might be intimidated by the page if I were a new user accustomed to working only from a GUI. I also think that I would be more intrigued than intimidated if one of the first things I saw on an introductory page was an example - maybe fairly simple. Ralph That said, I have NEVER got any feedback of anybody (be a new user or > a member of the -devel list), for that page. Oh, my English is poor, I > know, but everybody in the planet is invited to edit it (it's a wiki!) > > Which sometimes makes me think that the page is sooo bad that no one > dares to comment it. Does anyone think it could be remotely useful? > -- > Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain) > http://www.paconet.org > > > ___ > lilypond-user mailing list > lilypond-user@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user > -- Ralph Palmer Montague City, MA USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
Am 03.11.2008 um 16:35 schrieb Toine Schreurs: Redundancy is not the solution. To which problem? Yes, in general, repetition is a good technique to become familiar with something unknown. The first read gives questionmarks, the second one gives the Aha's. But it is almost impossible to maintain documentation if the information is somehow duplicated over different locations. I agree that the official lilypond documentation should really be a place to introduce, explain and show examples of lilypond's syntax. The adagium "Single Point Of Information" is much more important than Redundancy, especially for rapid-changing programs like Lilypond. I think that's more reliant on what information is trying to be communicated. If the goal is to have a source of documentation for the program, then certainly, one point of information is best, if the goal is to communicate to as many users as possible how the syntax works, and how it can be used, then there can be no maximum source of information. I think it's necessary, however, to differentiate between the official documentation, which is part of the maintained lilypond project, and any other sources of tips and tricks that can be incorporated into the documentation (viz, LSR), but are separately maintained. ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 03:27:28PM +0100, Bailey James E. wrote: > > what is clearly understandable on a first read by you, is > not clearly understandable on a first read by everyone. I think that > having documentation that explains everything is very good. Examples, please. If anything is unclear on this page, we should clear that up ASAP: http://kainhofer.com/~lilypond/Documentation/user/lilypond-learning/Compiling-a-file.html - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 04:49:53PM +0100, Francisco Vila wrote: > 2008/11/3 Toine Schreurs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Redundancy is not the solution. Yes, in general, repetition is a good > > technique to become familiar with something unknown. The first read gives > > questionmarks, the second one gives the Aha's. > > > > But it is almost impossible to maintain documentation if the information > > is somehow duplicated over different locations. > > The adagium "Single Point Of Information" is much more important than > > Redundancy, especially for rapid-changing programs like Lilypond. Yes -- especially when we're talking about newbies. Should they read: - official documentation - official FAQ - semi-official wiki - LSR - search on google and look for random blog posts[1] - search the mailist archives - send an email to the -user of bug- list. (this is my personal order of preference, BTW :) [1] Hey, don't laugh -- I'm working on stuff in Haxe right now, and their official docs are exceedingly terrible. The only progress I make is through reading random blog posts. :| > I don't think that an informal page like the one I linked needs to be > in the official documentation, and it is not affected by changes in > LilyPond. I slightly disagree: we do need *some* kind of page like that. After all, it's the most frequently asked question we get. > Granted, there *is* an official FAQ page, but it is not evolving, it > is outdated (e.g. speaks about sponsoring). We should remember it > exists and maintain it, link more frequently to it... or use a wiki. The whole website needs a Grand Project. The 80% of the existing faq should be junked[2], and the remainder should be *way* more prominent. I might even go so far as to say that readers should be forced to read the faq before downloading. [2] it could be put into a "secondary faq" or "advanced faq" or something, instead. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
On 2008-11-02 at 11:37, Mats Bengtsson wrote: Can anybody explain why 90% of all the newcomers who send a "how do I run the program" or "how do I install the program" or similar, send it to bug-lilypond instead of lilypond-user? Where on the web is the bug mailing list so much more visible than the usage list? Or, perhaps we have some misleading instruction somewhere? Besides the very good discussion going on, I can answer the original question: people post to the bug list because they can, and they have no idea that it matters or even that there's another list. Also, "program won't run" is obviously a bug, everybody knows that. :) Perhaps every time the bugs list is mentioned anywhere, it should come with a notice "The bugs list is for the Lilypond programmers only. For any kind of help with the software, please write to [link to user list]". I know, that part about programmers is perhaps not strictly 100% true, but it's what newbies should hear. David ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
> "David" == David Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: David> Perhaps every time the bugs list is mentioned anywhere, it should come David> with a notice "The bugs list is for the Lilypond programmers only. For David> any kind of help with the software, please write to [link to user David> list]". David> I know, that part about programmers is perhaps not strictly 100% true, David> but it's what newbies should hear. I disagree. Reporting bugs has nothing to do with programming. How about: The bugs list is for experienced lilypond users to report malfunctions in the software. If you're having trouble learning to use the software, you can get help on the lilypond-user list. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 G.P. 7: Never despise a drink because it is easy to make and/or uses commercial mixes. Unquestioning devotion to authenticity is, in any department of life, a mark of the naïve -- or worse. Kingsley Amis, _On Drink_ ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
> -Original Message- y newcomers post to bug-lilypond? > > What's the real solution to this? > - when lilypond is run for the first time on windows or OSX, it > pops up a box that says something like "You must read the docs". > Or maybe slightly longer, like "To use LilyPond, you must write > text files which define the music. To learn how to do this, > read the docs." Maybe with a clickable URL in there. > No, wait; that would require an internet connection. Dump a > copy of the relevant tutorial pages (HTML and/or pdf) with the > installer. > Actually, Lilypond already does this (on Windows, anyway). If you double-click the LilyPond icon on the desktop, it pops up Welcome_to_LilyPond.ly in the Lilypad window. All it needs is for the errors in the ly file to be fixed:-) Nick Payne ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
On 2008-11-03 at 11:25, Laura Conrad wrote: "David" == David Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: David> Perhaps every time the bugs list is mentioned anywhere, it should come David> with a notice "The bugs list is for the Lilypond programmers only. For David> any kind of help with the software, please write to [link to user David> list]". David> I know, that part about programmers is perhaps not strictly 100% true, David> but it's what newbies should hear. I disagree. Reporting bugs has nothing to do with programming. How about: The bugs list is for experienced lilypond users to report malfunctions in the software. If you're having trouble learning to use the software, you can get help on the lilypond-user list. The new user's answer to this is, unfortunately, "I'm not having trouble learning to use it at all - it simply won't run! This is most certainly a bug!" Your text, while strictly true and strictly the correct thing to write, is in fact misleading in this very strange case. David ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: five sixteenth note
As has already been pointed out, you haven't included your file rhythm.ly I think this file is here : http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=390 Gilles ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
RE: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
All good points, and I think a few hit on on the major themes. I personally like the Wiki idea to some extent - just a brief look at some of the links was instructional and made me think it's time to consider upgrading from 2.6.5! That's another topic! But actually, that is somewhat pertinent - even with v2.6.5 on Windows I was able to get started pretty quickly. Of course, my day job is as a SQL programmer, so the idea of a "source file" was nothing new to me. So I think the primary issue is stressing that fact. Of course, it's clearly stated, well, just about everywhere! _ Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: five sixteenth note
Dear Mark,
I use the "Wanderer"(I call this rhythm because it is the basic motive in
the Wanderer-Fantasie by Schubert ) and "Sarabande" rhythms like this:
\include "rhythmen.ly"
\relative {
\wanderer { c d e f e d }
\time 3/4 \sarabande { e d c g' f e } }
But, this is not my idea! You can find the rhythm- template at:
http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=390
2008/11/3 Mark Polesky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Mats Bengtsson wrote:
>
> > what's wrong with c16*5 or c4*5/4
>
> Mats,
> Check out the png. He's doing something totally different.
>
>
> Stefan,
>
> that's neat!
> But you need to change the last line of the main file to this:
>
> \relative { \time 5/16 \vs c \vs d \vs e \vs f \vs }
>
> it's always helpful to attach a png demo to eliminate confusion.
>
> Also, I think this would be a valuable addition to the LSR, but
> can the rhythm.ly file be trimmed down a little? Maybe translate
> the German into English?
>
> By the way, can you explain how your functions "sarabande" and
> "wanderer" work? I recognize the rhythms, but how do you use them?
> Looks intriguing.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
___
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Re: Why do so many newcomers post to bug-lilypond?
> "David" == David Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> How about: >> >> The bugs list is for experienced lilypond users to report >> malfunctions in the software. If you're having trouble learning >> to use the software, you can get help on the lilypond-user list. >> David> The new user's answer to this is, unfortunately, "I'm not having David> trouble learning to use it at all - it simply won't run! This is most David> certainly a bug!" David> Your text, while strictly true and strictly the correct thing to David> write, is in fact misleading in this very strange case. There are going to be other very strange cases where someone says, "I *am* a programmer, and I *still* can't get this %^&&^&( thing to work." Not to mention the case a ways down the road when our new user has figured out how to use the program and has found a real bug and feels that the input isn't wanted because it doesn't come from a programmer. Thinking about my draft after sending it, I decided it erred in the direction of not pointing out strongly how much the people on lilypond-user want to help the new user. There should also be a description of the purpose of lilypond-bug somewhere, but the right thing for this purpose is to encourage the use of lilypond-user, not to spread misinformation about bug-lilypond. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 Inquisitor: What did you do in the Great War? James Joyce: I wrote Ulysses. Tom Stoppard, _Travesties_ ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
Re: Trouble getting my page layout just right
On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 21:53 +1100, Cameron Horsburgh wrote: > In short, I'm stumped! > > Any ideas? So I had a look at the file you sent off-list and it turns out that the unevenness is being caused by poor extent-estimates. A workaround is to set VerticalAxisGroup #'minimum-Y-extent to #'(-4 . 4). You might also want to edit scm/layout-page-layout.scm, line 89, by increasing the number "10.0" to something like "20.0" or "25.0". I'll probably do this in the official sources soon, because there have already been other complaints about it. A full description of the problem follows, partly in case anyone cares and partly so I can refer to it later. The estimated extent of a system is calculated without the use of skylines. That is, we assume that each staff in the system is just an axis-aligned box. This is necessary because we need to calculate the extent-estimates before we do horizontal spacing, but it tends to overestimate the distance that must be placed between staves because the more accurate skyline outlines allow grobs from staves to "mesh." The difference is usually not dramatic, though. A treble clef extends above the staff by a couple of staff spaces. If we calculate the skyline accurately, the clef usually does not influence the minimum distance to the staff above; that is usually determined by some low-hanging notes and dynamics attached to the staff above. When we use the rougher box approximation, however, then the treble clef forces the staves farther apart. Have a look at some printed scores: if you draw a horizontal line that touches the top of a treble clef, it will usually intersect with low-hanging stuff the staff above. The amount of that intersection is the amount of overestimation that the treble clef causes. When you have a system with many staves and many treble clefs, these small amounts of overestimation add up. However, the overestimation tends to be the same for most pages, so it doesn't cause much unevenness; it only makes the pages so that they aren't filled up. On page 4 of Cameron's example, there are no suddenly no dynamics and only a few notes that extend below the staff. On that page, the treble clefs _are_ the limiting factor for the positioning of the staves, so the estimates _are_ accurate. This causes the system to be stretched by the correct amount, which looks odd because the other pages are not stretched enough. The minimum-Y-extent workaround works because the larger minimum-Y-extent boxes are large enough to cover up the treble clefs and eliminate the inaccuracies that they cause. In the long term, the proper solution is not to use extent estimates for deciding how much to stretch systems. Instead, we should use the per-staff skylines (which are available at that stage, because we have already decided on a page-breaking). These aren't completely accurate because they don't include cross-staff objects, but they're pretty close. In particular, they are much better than the box approximations. It would be nice to do this along with a larger page-layout rewrite that expresses each page as a large rod-and-spring problem with a spring for every staff, not just every system. In the shorter term, extent-estimates can be made more precise by computing, for every staff, 2 extent-estimates: a "prefatory matter" estimate and a "rest of the staff" estimate. The prefatory matter estimate should be cheap to compute because it only depends on the starting-point of a line. The "rest of the staff" estimate would be only a minor modification of what the code we already have. Joe ___ lilypond-user mailing list lilypond-user@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
