Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 12:35:16 -0800, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: Ok, pushed. Something much like the previous output can still be selected, just like the voice->channel mapping for reproducing voice and staff mapping with the current midi2ly. It generally works. The MIDI port assignments are still being written to the output file; I don't know if that is intended. I see you encode dynamics as MIDI note-on-velocity. (This is much better than the old way of encoding dynamics as MIDI volume!) The old encoding of dynamics in MIDI volume is still being output, though. I assume you want to remove this, because with the default mapping of instrument-type to channel, two instruments of the same type fight over the volume of that channel. The overall change is quite big. I combined the midi-output-related changes since 2.13.51 into one patch at http://codereview.appspot.com/4271043/ so we can see what needs to be documented. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
"Keith OHara" writes: > On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 12:35:16 -0800, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: > >> Ok, pushed. Something much like the previous output can still >> be selected, just like the voice->channel mapping for reproducing >> voice and staff mapping with the current midi2ly. >> > > It generally works. > > The MIDI port assignments are still being written to the output file; > I don't know if that is intended. > > I see you encode dynamics as MIDI note-on-velocity. (This is much > better than the old way of encoding dynamics as MIDI volume!) Since not all instruments are percussive (like a piano is), it would make sense to also (optionally?) encode dynamic changes during note duration as "expression" signals. Otherwise a crescendo on sustained notes (like a string instrument or a wind instrument or an accordion can deliver) will not happen. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
Keith OHara oco.net> writes: > > I see you encode dynamics as MIDI note-on-velocity. (This is much better > than > the old way of encoding dynamics as MIDI volume!) Except that using MIDI volume for dynamics lets LilyPond perform (de)crescendos on a held note. Somebody might complain if that goes away. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
Keith OHara writes: > Keith OHara oco.net> writes: > >> I see you encode dynamics as MIDI note-on-velocity. (This is much >> better than >> the old way of encoding dynamics as MIDI volume!) > > Except that using MIDI volume for dynamics lets LilyPond perform > (de)crescendos on a held note. Somebody might complain if that goes > away. I just mentioned how to get around this. People just don't pay attention. I might as well be talking to my computer. Which is pretty much what it looks like to the other people in the ward. House, I mean. I think I'll step outside and take a look at the horses. Which reminds me that I still need to help getting the board back into place that Kelly knocked out when she got impatient at feeding time this morning. Somebody better turn down that expression pedal of hers. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
Am 13.03.2011 09:43, schrieb David Kastrup: Keith OHara writes: Keith OHara oco.net> writes: I see you encode dynamics as MIDI note-on-velocity. (This is much better than the old way of encoding dynamics as MIDI volume!) Except that using MIDI volume for dynamics lets LilyPond perform (de)crescendos on a held note. Somebody might complain if that goes away. I just mentioned how to get around this. People just don't pay attention. No, I think it isn't due to not paying attention, but due to the delay in delivering answers to mailing lists. The difference between your message and Keith's were five minutes and my thunderbird looks for new messages every 10 minutes - see? I might as well be talking to my computer. Oh man, how I wait for that. The possibility to shout at your operating system doing it wrong over and over again until it reboots silently with a "sorry" message on the screen would make me switch over to windows again, just as a late revenge ;-) Which is pretty much what it looks like to the other people in the ward. House, I mean. I think I'll step outside and take a look at the horses. Which reminds me that I still need to help getting the board back into place that Kelly knocked out when she got impatient at feeding time this morning. Somebody better turn down that expression pedal of hers. Does she have a USB port? Regards, Marc ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
-Original Message- From: Marc Hohl Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:53:42 +0100 To: David Kastrup Cc: Lilypond Dev Subject: Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output >>I might as well be talking to my computer. > >Oh man, how I wait for that. The possibility to shout at your operating >System I find that sticking my two fingers up at the screen in disgust and walking off gives me a lot of satisfaction. >>Which is pretty >>much what it looks like to the other people in the ward. House, I mean. >>I think I'll step outside and take a look at the horses. Which reminds >>me that I still need to help getting the board back into place that >>Kelly knocked out when she got impatient at feeding time this morning. >>Somebody better turn down that expression pedal of hers. >Does she have a USB port? PLEASE! This is a family message message group! James ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Overlapping notes and midi output
Michael Welsh Duggan schreef op zo 13-03-2011 om 03:02 [-0400]:
> Hinrik ÖrnSigurðsson writes:
> It is a feature in Lilypond's midi output. Discussion about this can be
> found at
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2004-04/msg00233.html>.
Can you please have a look at the midi output in HEAD? I think that
this behaviour was an artifact of voices being lumped together on one
track and channel. Hopefully, in this example
<< e1 \\ { c4 d e f } >>
there are two voices that go to separate tracks and the
merging does not happen.
Jan.
--
Jan Nieuwenhuizen | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org
Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.nl
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Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
Keith OHara schreef op zo 13-03-2011 om 00:19 [-0800]: > I see you encode dynamics as MIDI note-on-velocity. (This is much > better than the old way of encoding dynamics as MIDI volume!) The old > encoding of dynamics in MIDI volume is still being output, though. I > assume you want to remove this, because with the default mapping of > instrument-type to channel, two instruments of the same type fight > over the volume of that channel. We had this volume - voice-bug posted http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-lilypond/2011-03/msg00146.html and when mapping instrument <-> channel instead of staff <-> channel (or voice <-> channel and get ports to work), this makes changing the volume of two similar sounding voices impossible. To my surprise, I found out that this note on velocity was not being used. We'll have to see what volume changes should go where exactly. I note that some suggestions have been made, and I look forward to any patches to back them up. I'm not removing anything just yet until we find a good way to test these things or get some more info. Jan. -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.nl ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
Jan Nieuwenhuizen writes: > To my surprise, I found out that this note on velocity was not being > used. We'll have to see what volume changes should go where exactly. > I note that some suggestions have been made, and I look forward to any > patches to back them up. Considering that the mechanisms of Lilypond's Midi generation are not documented anywhere (including the documentation of internals), the likelihood of any "patches to back them up" is slim. If any patches are to appear, they will be by the usual suspects already familiar with this part of the code and its design. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 10:00:24AM +, James Lowe wrote: > > -Original Message- > From: Marc Hohl > >>I might as well be talking to my computer. > > > >Oh man, how I wait for that. The possibility to shout at your operating > >System > > I find that sticking my two fingers up at the screen in disgust and > walking off gives me a lot of satisfaction. I found that completely bewildering when I first came here -- I'd never heard of a two-finger rude gesture before! One-finger, sure, I saw it all the time. But two-finger? Not in western Canada, at least. It made for a funny lesson one day. A student was waiting for me to help him while I helped somebody else, so I called out "I'll be there in two minutes" and helpfully held up two fingers to reinforce the "two" bit (it was a noisy computer lab). Apparently the finger gesture gave the wrong message. :) > >Does she have a USB port? > > PLEASE! This is a family message message group! Yeah! Think of all the children who are sending in patches! Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
Graham Percival writes: > On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 10:00:24AM +, James Lowe wrote: >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Marc Hohl >> >>I might as well be talking to my computer. >> > >> >Oh man, how I wait for that. The possibility to shout at your operating >> >System >> >> I find that sticking my two fingers up at the screen in disgust and >> walking off gives me a lot of satisfaction. > > I found that completely bewildering when I first came here -- I'd > never heard of a two-finger rude gesture before! One-finger, sure, I > saw it all the time. But two-finger? Not in western Canada, at > least. A one-finger gesture would not be offensive to a binary entity. -- David Kastrup ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: unbeamed 32nd stem is shortened by 0.25 ss to fit beamed stems better. (issue4243071)
What's the status of this? I don't see any objections, and also i don't see this pushed or being counted-down. In fact, i don't see a patch-issue at all. cheers, Janek ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
Am 13.03.2011 11:00, schrieb James Lowe: -Original Message- From: Marc Hohl Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:53:42 +0100 To: David Kastrup Cc: Lilypond Dev Subject: Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output I might as well be talking to my computer. Oh man, how I wait for that. The possibility to shout at your operating System I find that sticking my two fingers up at the screen in disgust and walking off gives me a lot of satisfaction. No, the computer has to react accordingly ;-) Which is pretty much what it looks like to the other people in the ward. House, I mean. I think I'll step outside and take a look at the horses. Which reminds me that I still need to help getting the board back into place that Kelly knocked out when she got impatient at feeding time this morning. Somebody better turn down that expression pedal of hers. Does she have a USB port? PLEASE! This is a family message message group! Sorry, I didn't think of anything offending or unsuitable for anyone ... Marc James ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: unbeamed 32nd stem is shortened by 0.25 ss to fit beamed stems better. (issue4243071)
On 3/13/11, Jan Warchoł wrote: > What's the status of this? > I don't see any objections, and also i don't see this pushed or being > counted-down. > In fact, i don't see a patch-issue at all. Sorry, added now: http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1558 I'll check the regtests once I'm finished building 2.13.54, then push it. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Linux help please?
Nothing to do with LilyPond, but don't know where else to ask. I've been creating an Ubuntu VM to install an open-source telephone exchange, Asterix. All going well until I had to compile a package called Dahdi. This failed on an include, and so I was trying to edit the source file. It's owned by root and so logged in as phil, it was read-only. I thought that rather than learn the syntax of chmod, I'd just briefly log in as root. I clicked the "log-off" button and switched user to root. All the desktop furniture disappeared - no task bar, no Places, no logout, nothing. So I shut down using the VM command and restarted. Same. I'm shown as logged in as phil, but I can't do anything at all. Anyone any ideas of how to get my desktop back? -- Phil Holmes Bug Squad ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Linux help please?
Il giorno dom, 13/03/2011 alle 14.43 +, Phil Holmes ha scritto: > Nothing to do with LilyPond, but don't know where else to ask. > > I've been creating an Ubuntu VM to install an open-source telephone > exchange, Asterix. All going well until I had to compile a package called > Dahdi. This failed on an include, and so I was trying to edit the source > file. It's owned by root and so logged in as phil, it was read-only. I > thought that rather than learn the syntax of chmod, I'd just briefly log in > as root. I clicked the "log-off" button and switched user to root. All the > desktop furniture disappeared - no task bar, no Places, no logout, nothing. > So I shut down using the VM command and restarted. Same. I'm shown as > logged in as phil, but I can't do anything at all. Anyone any ideas of how > to get my desktop back? > I guess that you are just seeing a terminal. So log as phil and then launch this command: startx You should see again your desktop. You don't have to change the owner or the permissions of an installation file. Open it using sudo: sudo nano file or sudo gedit file HTH, Federico ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Linux help please?
- Original Message - From: "Federico Bruni" To: "Phil Holmes" Cc: Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:54 PM Subject: Re: Linux help please? Il giorno dom, 13/03/2011 alle 14.43 +, Phil Holmes ha scritto: Nothing to do with LilyPond, but don't know where else to ask. I've been creating an Ubuntu VM to install an open-source telephone exchange, Asterix. All going well until I had to compile a package called Dahdi. This failed on an include, and so I was trying to edit the source file. It's owned by root and so logged in as phil, it was read-only. I thought that rather than learn the syntax of chmod, I'd just briefly log in as root. I clicked the "log-off" button and switched user to root. All the desktop furniture disappeared - no task bar, no Places, no logout, nothing. So I shut down using the VM command and restarted. Same. I'm shown as logged in as phil, but I can't do anything at all. Anyone any ideas of how to get my desktop back? I guess that you are just seeing a terminal. So log as phil and then launch this command: startx You should see again your desktop. You don't have to change the owner or the permissions of an installation file. Open it using sudo: sudo nano file or sudo gedit file HTH, Federico Thanks for your suggestion - it's not a terminal, though, it's a desktop, but with no start bars, places, applications or anything like that. I can't find a way to run anything... -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Linux help please?
On 3/13/11, Phil Holmes wrote: > - Original Message - >>> Dahdi. This failed on an include, and so I was trying to edit the source >>> file. For the record, the proper solution here is to install the development library(ies) that it wanted. >>> It's owned by root and so logged in as phil, it was read-only. I >>> thought that rather than learn the syntax of chmod, I'd just briefly log >>> in >>> as root. For the record, never never do this, and especially not in ubuntu. You get extra permissions by running "sudo". Also, I wouldn't try modifying source code as root -- copy the source into your user directory (is this from a tarball?), do the ./configure and compile there, and only at the last step do sudo make install. But in addition, I really don't recommend compiling software unless you're absolutely certain that you need to. I don't think you need to: http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/dahdi * oh, if the problem was the kernel thing, then you should use an automatic tool for dealing with the kernel interface. I forget what it's called... module-assist or something like that? > Thanks for your suggestion - it's not a terminal, though, it's a desktop, > but with no start bars, places, applications or anything like that. I can't > find a way to run anything... You could try right-clicking, which might allow you to create a launcher, and then make a terminal. Alternately, hit ctrl-alt-F2 to get a terminal. (ctrl-alt-F7 to go back). From there, you can try rescue commands that you find (hopefully you have another computer or laptop handy)? My first guess is that some of the files in /home/phil/.foo (note the . ) are now owned by root and non-readable, so your user can't read them and inialize stuff. Check out .xinit and stuff like that. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Linux help please?
- Original Message - From: "Graham Percival" To: "Phil Holmes" Cc: "Federico Bruni" ; Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 3:35 PM Subject: Re: Linux help please? On 3/13/11, Phil Holmes wrote: - Original Message - Dahdi. This failed on an include, and so I was trying to edit the source file. For the record, the proper solution here is to install the development library(ies) that it wanted. I was following instructions on how to install Asterisk, and they told me to go get and make. So I did... It's owned by root and so logged in as phil, it was read-only. I thought that rather than learn the syntax of chmod, I'd just briefly log in as root. For the record, never never do this, and especially not in ubuntu. You get extra permissions by running "sudo". Also, I wouldn't try modifying source code as root -- copy the source into your user directory (is this from a tarball?), do the ./configure and compile there, and only at the last step do sudo make install. Problem was I'm a Windows-orientated person, and so was double-clicking to edit, and you can't (?) sudo that way. FWIW I had copied the file over, but it retained root ownership. But in addition, I really don't recommend compiling software unless you're absolutely certain that you need to. I don't think you need to: http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/dahdi * oh, if the problem was the kernel thing, then you should use an automatic tool for dealing with the kernel interface. I forget what it's called... module-assist or something like that? Thanks for your suggestion - it's not a terminal, though, it's a desktop, but with no start bars, places, applications or anything like that. I can't find a way to run anything... You could try right-clicking, which might allow you to create a launcher, and then make a terminal. Alternately, hit ctrl-alt-F2 to get a terminal. (ctrl-alt-F7 to go back). From there, you can try rescue commands that you find (hopefully you have another computer or laptop handy)? Aha. The ctrl-alt-F2 looks promising. I've found some stuff about how to get the desktop back, so hopefully I can do this from the terminal now. It's only a VM, so if the worst came I'd nuke it and start again. It would have cost me a number of hours, though. My first guess is that some of the files in /home/phil/.foo (note the . ) are now owned by root and non-readable, so your user can't read them and inialize stuff. Check out .xinit and stuff like that. Cheers, - Graham Thanks. -- Phil Holmes ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
feedback: general thoughts about using LilyPond
Hi,
this isn't meant as a wish-list or a whine-list. I simply want to share my
view on the use of LilyPond from a perspective of semi-advanced,
(hopefully) quite intelligent and not-too-geeky user.
I first began using Lily in 2008 (v. 2.10.33), but it was short and very
simple SATB pieces only. I had some experience with Finale. I liked the idea
of text input very much, because:
- nothing could change without me knowing about it (unlike in Finale)
- everything was perfectly reversible (unlike in Finale)
- powerful templates could be created
- i saw what happened to the music.
I also liked the font, and the idea of "automated engraving" appealed to me.
After that i had something like 2yr vacation from music typesetting, and i
came back half year ago. I began researching music typesetting and examining
closely every score i saw, this gave me the eye to spot typesetting errors
(surely not all errors, especially not "what kind of notation should be used
here" errors - because i don't have access to music engraving books and
internet resources on this subject are limited - however i became sensitive
to all kinds of this-doesn't-look-nice errors).
As i became more and more critical and my needs grew (more complicated choir
pieces - excerpts from Messiah, some romantic and contemporary music), i
began to see LilyPond's weaknesses. My choir played a significant role here
- when i began to typeset our scores with Lily, i got some complaints which
showed me things that i wasn't aware of.
Ok, so this is the time for Lily pros and cons, from my point of view.
The single most important LilyPond advantage is that it is logical (objects
are connected to each other, there is a visible strcture etc.), and content
is separated from layout.
The second important advantage is perhaps being open-source: i was already
able to improve some issues that irked me, and i hope to do more.
Other advantages are:
- flexible output (i can switch to any paper size without too much trouble,
rearrange music on different amout of staves etc.),
- output is quite stable: changing something, for example adding a note,
usually doesn't ruin the layout tweaks i do. I remember writing some piano
piece in Finale (2005 version i think), tweaking it *very* heavily, only to
discover that when i corrected a single wrong note *all* my layout tweaks
disappeared. Man, that pissed me off!!
- i can create powerful templates and style-sheets,
- note spacing is much better than finale's,
- it's cross-platform (supporting *all* 3 major platforms, i.e. Win, Linux
and Mac), so i don't have to worry if i change OS. Also, if it was for Linux
only, i'd almost certainly didn't take the trouble to try it,
- it's free,
- it's accurate (compare how flags are attached to stems in Lily and in
finale),
- i like Feta font,
- there are some powerful features available, and music functions could be
written (however i didn't use that yet).
Now for the disadvantages.
1. The single most important disadvantage is that not everything is logical
(for example hairpin aligning: i must use << {notes} {skips with hairpins
attached} >> to achieve desired results; this is cumbersome to read, and,
above all, disconnects objects from themselves (i.e. hairpins from notes
affected)) and content isn't always separated from layout. Especially manual
object positioning is prone to problems; ideally i would like to see
\overrides used only in layout-independent situations (that is, to control
things not affected by line breaking, vertical system height etc.).
2. There are some frequenly appearing notation elements that still need
quite heavy manual tweaking, for example:
- dynamics (often they stick out too much and cause the systems to spread
vertically)
- horizontal placement of lyrics (i'm going to investigate how this could
be fixed)
- horizontal placement of accidentals (i'm going to investigate how this
could be fixed)
3. I have serious troubles with vertical layout of choral scores containing
anything besides notes. Slurs, and especially dynamics, tend to make systems
very high; i struggle to achieve 4 systems-per-page layout, which is always
certainly possible, but tweaking needed to achieve this is always
hit-and-miss. It looks like Lily tries *too* hard to avoid objects being too
close and colliding; this leads to problems.
4. Limited playback (this is very important for my choir - we use midi
playback to learn our parts at home. Remember that these people have low
computer skills - learning LilyPond is beyond their capabilities, so they
cannot modify .ly files to get what they want):
- there is no visual feedback with midi (nothing that shows in which place
of the score you are, this is especially important for visualizers),
- starting from chosen measure, or repeating a selected troublesome section,
is difficult,
- they cannot choose which voices play,
- they cannot change tempo of the piece.
Some of these can be partially solved by using some MIDI sequencer, but some
problems r
Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
On 11-03-13 05:21 AM, Graham Percival wrote: On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 10:00:24AM +, James Lowe wrote: -Original Message- From: Marc Hohl I might as well be talking to my computer. Oh man, how I wait for that. The possibility to shout at your operating System I find that sticking my two fingers up at the screen in disgust and walking off gives me a lot of satisfaction. I found that completely bewildering when I first came here -- I'd never heard of a two-finger rude gesture before! One-finger, sure, I saw it all the time. But two-finger? Not in western Canada, at least. It made for a funny lesson one day. A student was waiting for me to help him while I helped somebody else, so I called out "I'll be there in two minutes" and helpfully held up two fingers to reinforce the "two" bit (it was a noisy computer lab). Apparently the finger gesture gave the wrong message. :) Does she have a USB port? PLEASE! This is a family message message group! Yeah! Think of all the children who are sending in patches! I would *really* love the ability to patch my children! Colin -- The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much, it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little. -Franklin D. Roosevelt, 32nd US President (1882-1945) ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
Colin Campbell schreef op zo 13-03-2011 om 10:02 [-0600]: > I would *really* love the ability to patch my children! Patching parents first is easier and more effective. Jan -- Jan Nieuwenhuizen | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.nl ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: feedback: general thoughts about using LilyPond
On 3/13/11, Janek Warchoł wrote:
> this isn't meant as a wish-list or a whine-list.
... we go through this every six months or so.
> 1. The single most important disadvantage is that not everything is logical
> (for example hairpin aligning: i must use << {notes} {skips with hairpins
> attached} >> to achieve desired results; this is cumbersome to read, and,
> above all, disconnects objects from themselves (i.e. hairpins from notes
> affected)) and content isn't always separated from layout.
Sure! So let's change this. Write a scheme function, something like
\beginCresc #3.0 \endCresc #-2.5 which applies the argument to the
X-offset. Or maybe make it a bit more "lilypond-ish" and do \endCresc
{ 4..} to mean "end the crescendo at a duration of 4.. after this
note".
You probably want to quibble about the syntax, but that's not the
important part. Get a scheme function written first, *then* we can
start arguing about the name, modifying the parser (please no), etc.
I'm always astounded at how much we _could_ be doing with "helper"
scheme functions, but don't. (some might dismiss them as "syntactic
sugar", but we could keep them as optional includes to avoid
"polluting" the main code base)
In this particular case, I'm guessing 5 hours? I mean, it'd be like
10 minutes for Neil, but if you're not familiar with scheme and stuff,
it always takes a ton longer.
> 2. There are some frequenly appearing notation elements that still need
> quite heavy manual tweaking, for example:
> - dynamics (often they stick out too much and cause the systems to spread
> vertically)
Are you talking about changing the #'staff-padding, or do you want
lilypond to automatically apply an X-offset and then shift them
higher? ETA 1 hour for the first (time for discussion), and ETA 15
hours for the second.
> 4. Limited playback (this is very important for my choir - we use midi
> playback to learn our parts at home. Remember that these people have low
> computer skills - learning LilyPond is beyond their capabilities, so they
> cannot modify .ly files to get what they want):
Are you talking about improved MIDI playback (i.e. using Peter Chubb's
articulate.ly, ETA 2 hours to integrate this, and this is one of the
best "bang for your buck" projects that nobody has shown the slightest
interest in), or having actual singing output?
LilyPond theoretically includes singing stuff with Festival, which the
guys in Edingburgh theoretically are working on, but nobody knows how
it works, and festival itself seems not-really-maintained. I'm a
total uber-fan of Vocaloid singing synthesis (which is non-free) and
Utauloid (which is free as beer but not speech); I've toyed with
making a lilypond => UST file writer -- it _is_ possible to run utau
in wine, although difficult. But that's very much an aside.
The general topics of "automatic music performance" (and the
highly-related "expressive music performance") are active areas of
research. If somebody has 2000+ hours, I could mentor them to write a
program which could automatically perform music with another
instrument (say, clarinet). But that would be worth a Masters degree
by itself, so it probably isn't what you're talking about. :)
> - there is no visual feedback with midi (nothing that shows in which place
> of the score you are, this is especially important for visualizers),
I thought we had a "karaoke mode" for MIDI? I know that some programs
do this, so if we don't support it already, adding it would be on the
order of 10-50 hours.
> - starting from chosen measure, or repeating a selected troublesome section,
> is difficult,
Scheme function, 5 hours.
> - they cannot choose which voices play,
Scheme function, 2 hours?
> - they cannot change tempo of the piece.
... oh, sorry, I thought you meant a programmer, not your choir.
> Some of these can be partially solved by using some MIDI sequencer, but some
> problems remain. Also, they are not tech-savvy enough that simply telling
> them 'go use some MIDI sequencer' is a valid answer. I don't like it, but
> that's the way things are.
This really has nothing to do with lilypond itself, though. We can
produce a MIDI file, and could theoretically produce a .wav file, but
ultimately your choir members would need to be able to use some kind
of software to play it back.
If you have very limited needs (they only need to practice bars X to
Y), then one or two technically-minded members of the choir could
create a .wav file (or even burn a CD!) with that part. I think that
my mother has burned CDs for one of her choirs, containing a recording
of the music in question on one track, and another track having the
music slowed down to half speed, and another track with the half-speed
for just the difficult verse.
(actually, I don't think she's done that... but if she wanted to, she
could have asked my father to produce such a CD, and he could
definitely figure out how to use audacity)
> 5. Every time Lilypond does something
Re: unbeamed 32nd stem is shortened by 0.25 ss to fit beamed stems better. (issue4243071)
On 3/13/11, Graham Percival wrote: > On 3/13/11, Jan Warchoł wrote: >> What's the status of this? >> I don't see any objections, and also i don't see this pushed or being >> counted-down. >> In fact, i don't see a patch-issue at all. > > Sorry, added now: > http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1558 Looks fine; could you send me the final patch for pushing? Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: unbeamed 32nd stem is shortened by 0.25 ss to fit beamed stems better. (issue4243071)
2011/3/13 Graham Percival :
> On 3/13/11, Graham Percival wrote:
>> On 3/13/11, Jan Warchoł wrote:
>>> What's the status of this?
>>> I don't see any objections, and also i don't see this pushed or being
>>> counted-down.
>>> In fact, i don't see a patch-issue at all.
>>
>> Sorry, added now:
>> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1558
>
> Looks fine; could you send me the final patch for pushing?
Here they are.
From d7cf405d11d1abb6fdef1bc32323b003753f49ed Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: =?UTF-8?q?Janek=20Warcho=C5=82?=
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:37:28 +0100
Subject: [PATCH 1/2] unbeamed 32nd stem is shortened by 0.25 ss to fit beamed stems better.
as discussed in
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2011-03/msg00091.html
---
scm/define-grobs.scm |2 +-
1 files changed, 1 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-)
diff --git a/scm/define-grobs.scm b/scm/define-grobs.scm
index e5658a8..95fca72 100644
--- a/scm/define-grobs.scm
+++ b/scm/define-grobs.scm
@@ -1864,7 +1864,7 @@
. (
;; 3.5 (or 3 measured from note head) is standard length
;; 32nd, 64th, 128th flagged stems should be longer
- (lengths . (3.5 3.5 3.5 4.5 5.0 6.0))
+ (lengths . (3.5 3.5 3.5 4.25 5.0 6.0))
;; FIXME. 3.5 yields too long beams (according to Ross and
;; looking at Baerenreiter examples) for a number of common
--
1.7.0.4
From d796825d562e4101d2b76c0dba993498790de6d5 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: =?UTF-8?q?Janek=20Warcho=C5=82?=
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 21:32:32 +0100
Subject: [PATCH 2/2] shortens 32nd flag to match shorter stem
---
mf/feta-flags.mf |2 +-
1 files changed, 1 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-)
diff --git a/mf/feta-flags.mf b/mf/feta-flags.mf
index 90407a4..104bab3 100644
--- a/mf/feta-flags.mf
+++ b/mf/feta-flags.mf
@@ -379,7 +379,7 @@ fet_beginchar ("32nd (down)", "d5");
save flagspace, total_depth, flag_count;
flag_count = 3;
- total_depth# = 3.85 staff_space#;
+ total_depth# = 3.75 * staff_space# - blot_diameter# / 2;
flare = .84 staff_space;
flagspace# = .9 staff_space#;
hip_depth_ratio = .85;
--
1.7.0.4
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Re: unbeamed 32nd stem is shortened by 0.25 ss to fit beamed stems better. (issue4243071)
On 3/13/11, Jan Warchoł wrote: >>> http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=1558 >> >> Looks fine; could you send me the final patch for pushing? > > Here they are. Thanks, pushed. Cheers, - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: feedback: general thoughts about using LilyPond
2011/3/13 Janek Warchoł :
> 3. I have serious troubles with vertical layout of choral scores containing
> anything besides notes. Slurs, and especially dynamics, tend to make systems
> very high; i struggle to achieve 4 systems-per-page layout, which is always
> certainly possible, but tweaking needed to achieve this is always
> hit-and-miss. It looks like Lily tries *too* hard to avoid objects being too
> close and colliding; this leads to problems.
Some of this is caused by the rectangular skylines that LilyPond uses
around slurs:
\version "2.13.54"
#(ly:set-option 'debug-skylines #t)
\relative c' { << {e4( f g c b1)} \\ {c,4( d e f g1)\p} >>}
(A longer slur would produce a more extreme example.) Segmenting the
skyline into a number of tangent lines would improve things (even two
or three would help), but that's pretty far beyond my skills right
now.
- Just a tadpole, a.k.a. Andrew
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Scheme: How to determine the current time signature?
Dear devs, for not having much luck with asking this on user I'll try here again. I hope you don't mind. What I am trying to do is determine the nominator and denominator from the current time signature to alter the following snippet so that it doesn't have to be adjusted for each piece. http://lsr.dsi.unimi.it/LSR/Snippet?id=332 On user Carl Sorensen told me that this could be done with the timeSignatureFraction property but I couldn't figure out how to read this property. As Carl suggested I looked for threads dealing with ContextSpeccedMusic and I also had a look in the ly and scm files that control the timing properties but this was too much for me to grasp. I do know some scheme and already wrote some music functions but this is difficult for me to understand. Any help is appreciated. It doesn't have to be the solution yet but maybe a small hint on which step to take next. The thread on user can be found here: http://old.nabble.com/Scheme-question-td31109572.html Regards, Tao -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Scheme%3A-How-to-determine-the-current-time-signature--tp31139295p31139295.html Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Footnotes: empty fill-lines in header & footer
On Mar 13, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Nicolas Sceaux wrote:
> Le 13 mars 2011 à 19:53, Nicolas Sceaux a écrit :
>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> First of all, thank you very much for your precious work on footnotes.
>>
>> The following example demonstrates a strange behavior wrt footnotes:
>>
>> %% For each empty \fill-line in header and footer markups,
>> %% footnotes together with separation line are added.
>
> Actually the header markup has no impact, and the problem is not due to
> \fill-line, but to \column:
>
> \paper {
> %% no problem with \markup { \column { } }
> oddFooterMarkup = \markup \column { }
> }
>
> { \footnoteGrob #'NoteHead #'(1 . 2) "note" "footnote" c'' }
>
> Nicolas
>
AHH!! Attack of the footnotes!!
I get the sense that this bug may have to do with the way that footers and/or
markups work in general, not just the footnotes. More precisely, the footnotes
get attached to the footer via Page_layout_problem::add_footnotes_to_footer on
line 98 of page-layout-problem.cc . This is only ever called twice in the code
- once for the dummy page used for configs (follow line 589 of page-breaking.cc
to its logical conclusion) and once on line 553 of page-breaking.cc for the
real deal. When I use pretty prints in the code to compare the buggy output w/
the good output, the pretty prints in the footnote stream never change.
So, my guess is that the blank footer is printing multiple times, and thus, the
non-blank footnote is tagging along with it.
What needs to be scrubbed, then, is this behavior.
As the behavior is correct for \markup { \column { } } and for \markup \column
{ foo }, I think that it may be a parser issue &/or a markup interpretation
issue &/or a footer creation issue.
At any rate, if there is someone who is conversant in markups and/or footers,
I'd appreciate their taking this on.
The quick workaround, as already suggested by Nicolas, is simply to put \markup
{ \column { } } anytime someone wants to use a blank column as the footer
(which, admittedly, is esoteric, but as I am all about esoteric, I support
someone's desire to do this).
Cheers,
MS
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Re: Potential fix for issue 1504. (issue4237057)
On Mar 12, 2011, at 8:49 AM, hanw...@gmail.com wrote: > > http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/diff/1/lily/spanner.cc > File lily/spanner.cc (right): > > http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/diff/1/lily/spanner.cc#newcode405 > lily/spanner.cc:405: Spanner::broken_spanner_index (Spanner const *sp) > On 2011/03/12 10:18:06, MikeSol wrote: >> On 2011/03/09 23:03:44, hanwenn wrote: >> > why not make it a real member funtcion? > >> Actually - sorry, I spoke too soon. I see that there's a function >> get_break_index. Could these two functions be merged? Is there a > reason that >> the two functions exist separately? If not, I'll merge them together. > > good point. Can you replace broken_spanner_index by get_break_index > everywhere? should be separate commit to go in before this one. If it > passes the regtest cleanly, does not need to be reviewed. > > http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/diff/8001/lily/beam.cc > File lily/beam.cc (right): > > http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/diff/8001/lily/beam.cc#newcode144 > lily/beam.cc:144: Beam::get_beam_span (Spanner* me) > Why can't you use spanner::spanner_length()? these numbers don't need > to be that exact, do they? > > http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/diff/8001/lily/beam.cc#newcode160 > lily/beam.cc:160: extract_grob_set (me, "stems", stems); > you already have them. line 145. In this case you might as well use > get_bound() rather than the stems, btw. > > http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/diff/8001/lily/beam.cc#newcode169 > lily/beam.cc:169: Beam::get_span_data (Spanner *me) > _data -> _widths ? > > http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/diff/8001/lily/beam.cc#newcode171 > lily/beam.cc:171: > drop > > http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/diff/8001/lily/beam.cc#newcode634 > lily/beam.cc:634: if (Spanner::broken_spanner_index (me) == (int)i) > use newstyle casting int(i) > > http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/diff/8001/lily/beam.cc#newcode646 > lily/beam.cc:646: } > how about you store this in a property? You could compute the property > in a separate function, say > > feather-fractions pair? "how much of feathering for this beam" > > and the computation would only need to be done once. > > 1st beam gets: (0.0 . 0.25) > 2nd: (0.25 . 0.75) > 3rd: (0.75 . 1.0) > > (assuming total beam length of 2x linesize). > > then print() only needs to do the part for its own system. > > unfeathered beams get (1.0 . 1.0) and shrinking beams (1.0 . 0.0) > All issues addressed. New patch set up at http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/ Cheers, MS ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: feedback: general thoughts about using LilyPond
2011/3/13 Andrew Hawryluk :
> 2011/3/13 Janek Warchoł :
>> 3. I have serious troubles with vertical layout of choral scores containing
>> anything besides notes. Slurs, and especially dynamics, tend to make systems
>> very high; i struggle to achieve 4 systems-per-page layout, which is always
>> certainly possible, but tweaking needed to achieve this is always
>> hit-and-miss. It looks like Lily tries *too* hard to avoid objects being too
>> close and colliding; this leads to problems.
>
> Some of this is caused by the rectangular skylines that LilyPond uses
> around slurs:
exactly.
> \version "2.13.54"
> #(ly:set-option 'debug-skylines #t)
> \relative c' { << {e4( f g c b1)} \\ {c,4( d e f g1)\p} >>}
>
> (A longer slur would produce a more extreme example.) Segmenting the
> skyline into a number of tangent lines would improve things (even two
> or three would help), but that's pretty far beyond my skills right
> now.
Mine too, unfortunately...
cheers,
Janek
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Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
On Sun, 13 Mar 2011 03:20:51 -0700, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: I'm not removing anything just yet until we find a good way to test these things or get some more info. Sensible, but this leaves a partially-finished major change in the branch that Graham just tagged as 2.14 release candidate. Do you want the new MIDI output in 2.14, or can it be worked on in a separate branch, to be finished in development 2.15 ? ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 05:05:51PM -0700, Keith OHara wrote: > On Sun, 13 Mar 2011 03:20:51 -0700, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote: > > > >I'm not removing anything just yet until we find a good way to > >test these things or get some more info. > > > Sensible, but this leaves a partially-finished major change in the branch > that Graham just tagged as 2.14 release candidate. If there is a critical regression, then go ahead and add an issue number and I'll announce the cancellation of that release candidate. > Do you want the new MIDI output in 2.14, or can it be worked on in a separate > branch, to be finished in development 2.15 ? We're not delaying for new features. Stuff like footnotes can be added in 2.14.1. This can go there too. Cheers. - Graham ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
Re: Potential fix for issue 1504. (issue4237057)
http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/diff/11001/lily/beam.cc
File lily/beam.cc (right):
http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/diff/11001/lily/beam.cc#newcode206
lily/beam.cc:206: orig->set_property ("feather-fraction", scm_cons
(scm_from_double (0.0), scm_from_double (orig->spanner_length (;
my suggestion was for fraction to be a real fraction, ie. a number from
0.0 to 1.0, relative to the total length of the beam. That also gives
users a way to tune the featheriness they want from their beams (they
could set it to 0.0 - 2.0 to exaggerate the effect for instance), in a
scale-free way. My idea was also to put the effect of feather-dir into
this pair, ie. feather=LEFT => (1.0 . 0.0) and RIGHT => (0.0 . 1.0)
Does that sound right? I think you would be able to do without
feather-dir in the print callback.
http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/diff/11001/lily/include/spanner.hh
File lily/include/spanner.hh (right):
http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/diff/11001/lily/include/spanner.hh#newcode76
lily/include/spanner.hh:76: static int broken_spanner_index (Spanner
const *sp);
this can go now?
http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/diff/11001/scm/define-grobs.scm
File scm/define-grobs.scm (right):
http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/diff/11001/scm/define-grobs.scm#newcode329
scm/define-grobs.scm:329: (after-line-breaking .
,ly:beam::calc-feather-widths)
I recommend hooking this up to feather-fraction directly, so you can be
sure it's always calculated at the right time, namely, when needed.
Beyond setting the fractions for all beams,
you'd have to return the fraction pair for the beam part on which the
callback gets called
http://codereview.appspot.com/4237057/
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Re: Map voices to channels in MIDI output
On Sun, 13 Mar 2011 17:10:48 -0700, Graham Percival wrote: If there is a critical regression, then go ahead and add an issue I don't know of any yet, and I will not be looking for any. The changes within the past week were significant enough that I expect complaints from people who use MIDI. We're not delaying for new features. Right. Mostly I just want to be sure Jan knows you've branched for a potential stable release, in case he needs to pull back any half-implemented changes. ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
