Re: GOP: new website

2008-12-27 Thread Trevor Daniels


John Mandereau wrote Friday, December 26, 2008 8:18 PM



Le jeudi 25 décembre 2008 à 21:03 -0800, Graham Percival a écrit :


I currently see four options:
1)  Build the website with texinfo and texi2html.  With sufficient
stylesheets and texi2html hacking, I think this is /possible/, but
I don't know how much appetite there is for this.  I would only
touch the content, not presentation, of course.


The HTML used in current website is quite simple, it even doesn't have
 and  elements, it won't be hard to generate it from
texi2html.  LilyPond contributors are already familiar with Texinfo, so
it's not much of a trouble for writers either.  I second Werner on going
for this way.


+1

Trevor



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Re: GOP: new website

2008-12-27 Thread Valentin Villenave
2008/12/26 John Mandereau :

> The HTML used in current website is quite simple, it even doesn't have
>  and  elements, it won't be hard to generate it from
> texi2html.  LilyPond contributors are already familiar with Texinfo, so
> it's not much of a trouble for writers either.  I second Werner on going
> for this way.

OK, then I agree too (plus it will give John one more reason to pull
his hair out working on Texinfo stuff ;-)

Cheers,
Valentin


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Re: definitive git instructions

2008-12-27 Thread John Mandereau
Le vendredi 26 décembre 2008 à 17:18 -0800, Graham Percival a écrit :
> I want to clear this up and get the first piece of new content for
> the new GOP website.  With a modern version of git (whatever that
> means), what's the recommended way to get:
> 
> 1.  The master branch of the source tree.

The method described in web:README and master:Documentation/TRANSLATION
still works, but with Git 1.5.6.6, git-remote does the job well.  I've
simplified instructions in README (in branch web), do you think it's
clear enough?  For getting branch FOO you'd do

mkdir lily ; cd lily # use whichever directory name you prefer
git init-db
git remote add -f -t FOO origin git://git.sv.gnu.org/lilypond.git/
git checkout -b FOO origin/FOO

The two last commands may be repeated with another branch to get extra
branches into the same Git repository.


> 2.  All branches of lilypond.

The "git clone" method.  I've not used this for ages, so I don't know
how this command automagically set up remotes to pull and push easily.
Git experts might tell you :-)


> Is there much of a difference (in download size) between #1 and
> #2?

The main difference is the web branch and gub branch, as long as other
program sources branches have not diverged significantly from master.  I
don't know how big this difference is.


>   If somebody wants to fix bugs and update the website, is it
> better to grab all the branches (is that clone?), or keep two
> separate source directories (~/src/lilypond-main/ and
> ~/src/lilypond-web/ )?

You should have two separate directories to avoid always switching
between the web site and Lily sources; you can have this with two
separate Git repositories, or by creating subrepositories -- the latter
is documented in Documentation/TRANSLATION.  I guess it's easier for Git
beginners not to fiddle with subrepositories.

Cheers,
John



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Re: creating dev/gop-web

2008-12-27 Thread John Mandereau
Le vendredi 26 décembre 2008 à 17:11 -0800, Graham Percival a écrit :
> That said, my initial thought is that you're right.  The directory
> structure should match the website; that should make it easier to
> figure out what file to modify.

Let's go for this.  I'll hack the makefiles to set this up when I have
sorted up other issues (diatonic transposition and rearranging
buildscripts).

 

> > Two ways:
> > 1) use ImageMagick/convert to scale images at build time;
> 
> Seriously?  I was expecting that we could do {scale=50%} or
> something like that... oh well.

Maybe texi2html already supports this; if not, let's send a feature
request.



> I think (hope?) that
> I've described the problem, our desired output (pdf and html), and
> given enough content to experiment with; I'll leave the rest of
> the technical questions to you guys.

OK, and don't forget suggesting contributions on the graphical design
and layout, which anybody can propose in HTML/CSS; then I can implement
the adopted new design in the Python scripts.


> I think that you (John) have more experience with our html output
> than anybody else (from all your the translation work), so if
> nobody has dissenting opinions, we should do whatever you think is
> best.

Let's keep HTML head and navigation bar formatting in the Python
scripts; if some web designer propose improvments or alternatives, we'll
implement them in these scripts.

Cheers,
John



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Re: GOP: new website

2008-12-27 Thread John Mandereau
Le samedi 27 décembre 2008 à 14:28 +0100, Valentin Villenave a écrit :
> OK, then I agree too (plus it will give John one more reason to pull
> his hair out working on Texinfo stuff ;-)

Hehe, my hair is thick (and too long at my taste), so that's fine.

John



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Re: GOP: new website

2008-12-27 Thread John Mandereau
Le vendredi 26 décembre 2008 à 11:16 -0800, Patrick McCarty a écrit :
> > If I may add my 2 geeky cents, if we used a PHP-based content
> > management system, we could easily offer a PDF version of the website
> > for download, through an existing plugin (there are PDF plugins for
> > Drupal, for SPIP, for Wordpress etc).

Which one would you recommend?  What's the quality of the PDF produced?


> > That being said, I have the feeling that CMS are not really
> > appreciated among the LilyPond crew...

If you are volunteering to (co-)maintain the PHP site, and we have a
powerful enough server to support the important traffic on lilypond.org
with PHP, I'm sure it's possible.

Graham, what do you think?

Cheers,
John



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Re: GOP: new website

2008-12-27 Thread Reinhold Kainhofer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Am Samstag, 27. Dezember 2008 16:31:13 schrieb John Mandereau:
> Le vendredi 26 décembre 2008 à 11:16 -0800, Patrick McCarty a écrit :
> > > If I may add my 2 geeky cents, if we used a PHP-based content
> > > management system, we could easily offer a PDF version of the website
> > > for download, through an existing plugin (there are PDF plugins for
> > > Drupal, for SPIP, for Wordpress etc).
>
> Which one would you recommend?  What's the quality of the PDF produced?

I haven't tested all of them, but so far all PDF plugins I have seen really 
suck (they produce very raw pdf, basically pure html without any styling 
converted to pdf).

> If you are volunteering to (co-)maintain the PHP site, and we have a
> powerful enough server to support the important traffic on lilypond.org
> with PHP, I'm sure it's possible.

Are there any cases when an offline-version of the webpage might be useful?
We have the docs for offline-use so there might be no important cases left...

Cheers,
Reinhold
- -- 
- --
Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
 * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria
 * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886
 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org
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Re: GOP: new website

2008-12-27 Thread Reinhold Kainhofer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Am Samstag, 27. Dezember 2008 14:28:45 schrieb Valentin Villenave:
> 2008/12/26 John Mandereau :
> > The HTML used in current website is quite simple, it even doesn't have
> >  and  elements, it won't be hard to generate it from
> > texi2html.  LilyPond contributors are already familiar with Texinfo, so
> > it's not much of a trouble for writers either.  I second Werner on going
> > for this way.
>
> OK, then I agree too (plus it will give John one more reason to pull
> his hair out working on Texinfo stuff ;-)

Phew, thank god you are not asking me to write another .init file for 
texi2html! I don't have many hairs left, so pulling out my hair is no option  
;-)

Cheers,
Reinhold
- -- 
- --
Reinhold Kainhofer, reinh...@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
 * Financial & Actuarial Math., Vienna Univ. of Technology, Austria
 * http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/, DVR: 0005886
 * LilyPond, Music typesetting, http://www.lilypond.org
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Re: GOP website; please add tasks

2008-12-27 Thread Andrew Hawryluk
I can't think of anything you've missed, but if we get another pair of
hands running the LSR, would it be useful/reasonable to have a weekly
or monthly email to -user listing the new snippets?
  OR
Could LSR have a "browse by date added" feature added?

Andrew

On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Graham Percival
 wrote:
> I have the initial GOP website up now:
> http://percival-music.ca/gop/
>
> If I've missed any ongoing or temporary jobs that we'd like
> filled, please let me know.  I'm planning on sending the first
> round of pleas out to -user in a few days.
>
>
> I'm not including jobs that are single-person and clearly defined;
> for example, there's no point asking for a volunteer to take over
> the completion of the translation infrastructure, since it would
> probably take longer for John to explain what to do than it would
> to do it himself.
>
> Cheers,
> - Graham
>
>
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Re: GOP: new website

2008-12-27 Thread Han-Wen Nienhuys
On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 3:18 AM, Carl Sorensen  wrote:
>> 4)  Abandon the "complete website as pdf" idea and just give
>> people a tarball of the website for off-online browsing.
>>
> ...
>> So far I'm leaning towards #4; interested readers can still print
>> the HTML directly, although the pagination will suck.  And to be
>> honest, it's not like the pdfs that texinfo produces are fantastic
>> examples of typesetting, either.
>>
>
> #4 seems good to me.  No need to make the website in pdf form.

+1.

-- 
Han-Wen Nienhuys - han...@xs4all.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen


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Re: GOP website; please add tasks

2008-12-27 Thread Graham Percival
Doing it automatically would be a bit problematic, but there's
nothing wrong with listing the new snippets (from the "unapproved"
list).  That said, I'd suggest doing this as part of the Report
rather than emails to -user.

It might also be better to have an "interesting snippets of the
week", rather than "all snippets of the week".  But this will
depend on who offers to help.

Cheers,
- Graham


On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 09:58:06AM -0700, Andrew Hawryluk wrote:
> I can't think of anything you've missed, but if we get another pair of
> hands running the LSR, would it be useful/reasonable to have a weekly
> or monthly email to -user listing the new snippets?
>   OR
> Could LSR have a "browse by date added" feature added?
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Graham Percival
>  wrote:
> > I have the initial GOP website up now:
> > http://percival-music.ca/gop/
> >
> > If I've missed any ongoing or temporary jobs that we'd like
> > filled, please let me know.  I'm planning on sending the first
> > round of pleas out to -user in a few days.
> >
> >
> > I'm not including jobs that are single-person and clearly defined;
> > for example, there's no point asking for a volunteer to take over
> > the completion of the translation infrastructure, since it would
> > probably take longer for John to explain what to do than it would
> > to do it himself.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > - Graham
> >
> >
> > ___
> > lilypond-devel mailing list
> > lilypond-devel@gnu.org
> > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel
> >


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Re: GOP: new website

2008-12-27 Thread Werner LEMBERG
> And to be honest, it's not like the pdfs that texinfo produces are
> fantastic examples of typesetting, either.

I'll improve this, by reporting layout bugs to the texinfo people, for
example.  It will be better soon, I think, especially the vertical
spacing.


Werner


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release note translations

2008-12-27 Thread Graham Percival
Translators: please send your translated versions of the release
notes to John so that we can add them to the website.  And/or
commit directly to the web branch in git.

I found a bunch of translations on the wiki, but I'm not certain
which ones are up-to-date.


Typo for John to fix (in English): "Happy music typestting!"

(just about "LilyPond was brought to you by...")


Cheers,
- Graham


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2.12.1 panic list

2008-12-27 Thread Graham Percival
I'm planning a 2.12.1 release soon; we're unofficially thinking of
this as the "real" 2.12 stable release.

Compared to current master, what are the remaining last-minute
changes that people want, and when do you think you'll have them
committed?

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: release note translations

2008-12-27 Thread John Mandereau
Le samedi 27 décembre 2008 à 14:58 -0800, Graham Percival a écrit :
> Translators: please send your translated versions of the release
> notes to John so that we can add them to the website.  And/or
> commit directly to the web branch in git.

Our messages almost crossed each other ;-)


> I found a bunch of translations on the wiki, but I'm not certain
> which ones are up-to-date.

Previous emails on -devel make me think they are.  But they are not in
HTML, and they miss translation of Thanks titles.


> Typo for John to fix (in English): "Happy music typestting!"

Oops, fixed.

Best,
John



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LilyPond incompatible with Guile 1.8.6

2008-12-27 Thread Patrick McCarty
Hello,

I noticed an interesting thread a few days ago on the Guile mailing
list related to LilyPond.  Here is the thread:

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2008-12/msg00039.html

The suggested fix is trivial, and I've tested the latest git with
Guile 1.8.6 and 1.8.4 on GNU/Linux x86.  I don't know if any other
part of the source code should be changed, but I haven't noticed any
side-effects yet.  Attached is the patch I've been using.

Thanks,
Patrick
From 96578cc3eef17839bd7d8b404f02ccc72565e652 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Patrick McCarty 
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:50:50 -0800
Subject: [PATCH] Fix for Guile 1.8.6

* latest Guile forbids the call to scm_fill_input ()

Signed-off-by: Patrick McCarty 
---
 lily/parse-scm.cc |3 ---
 1 files changed, 0 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

diff --git a/lily/parse-scm.cc b/lily/parse-scm.cc
index f55be98..409ba88 100644
--- a/lily/parse-scm.cc
+++ b/lily/parse-scm.cc
@@ -38,9 +38,6 @@ internal_ly_parse_scm (Parse_start *ps)
   SCM answer = SCM_UNSPECIFIED;
   SCM form = scm_read (port);
 
-  /* Reset read_buf for scm_ftell.
- Shouldn't scm_read () do this for us?  */
-  scm_fill_input (port);
   SCM to = scm_ftell (port);
   ps->nchars = scm_to_int (to) - scm_to_int (from);
   
-- 
1.6.1

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Re: Point and Click does not work on Windows

2008-12-27 Thread -Eluze


Henning Plumeyer wrote:
> 
> Hope, this is the right place to post this:
> 

so do i!

textedit does not work correctly in windows xp
it does not use the editor one is used to work with

one way to make point and click work on windows xp follows - of course a
solution within Lilypond would be preferred!

1. program 
  copy the file  http://www.nabble.com/file/p21188897/textedit.bat
textedit.bat  into a program folder - e.g. C:\program files\…\…\textedit.bat 
  edit it and choose or insert your preferred editor
  make sure the line and column number and file are in the correct form and
order
  save it

2. register the textedit protocol
  copy the file  http://www.nabble.com/file/p21188897/textedit.reg
textedit.reg  anywhere (or near the above program)
  edit it and insert the full path and name of the above file -
"textedit.bat" - be sure to escape all special characters…!
  save and run it (double click or so)

3. refresh after downloading Lilypond
  rerun "textedit.reg" each time you load a new version of lilypond

this program handles files with blanks in the name (which textedit delivers
as "%20"). this may lead to unexpected results when using "%" in the name.

hope this is useful!
Eluze
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Point-and-Click-does-not-work-on-Windows-tp21134860p21188897.html
Sent from the Gnu - Lilypond - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



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Re: 2.12.1 panic list

2008-12-27 Thread Francisco Vila
2008/12/28 Graham Percival :
> I'm planning a 2.12.1 release soon; we're unofficially thinking of
> this as the "real" 2.12 stable release.
>
> Compared to current master, what are the remaining last-minute
> changes that people want, and when do you think you'll have them
> committed?

I do not know if the new Spanish resource file for the LilyPad editor
for Windows was committed. I sent a patch but I had to extract the
original file from a compressed archive and I was told that there was
no other available source for it. A strange situation, don't you think
so?
-- 
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
http://www.paconet.org


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Re: GOP: new website

2008-12-27 Thread John Mandereau
Le samedi 27 décembre 2008 à 17:32 +0100, Reinhold Kainhofer a écrit :
> I haven't tested all of them, but so far all PDF plugins I have seen really 
> suck (they produce very raw pdf, basically pure html without any styling 
> converted to pdf).

Oh, so let's stick to our good old HTML, Python and Texinfo.


> > If you are volunteering to (co-)maintain the PHP site, and we have a
> > powerful enough server to support the important traffic on lilypond.org
> > with PHP, I'm sure it's possible.
> 
> Are there any cases when an offline-version of the webpage might be useful?

Maybe if the site is distributed along with Lily binaries, sources and
documentation on a CD.  Anyway it's useful for translators and website
editors to check Lily output without having to run a HTTP server.

Best,
John



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Re: creating dev/gop-web

2008-12-27 Thread Graham Percival
On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 04:05:48PM +0100, John Mandereau wrote:
> Le vendredi 26 d??cembre 2008 ?? 17:11 -0800, Graham Percival a ??crit :
> > That said, my initial thought is that you're right.  The directory
> > structure should match the website; that should make it easier to
> > figure out what file to modify.
> 
> Let's go for this.  I'll hack the makefiles to set this up when I have
> sorted up other issues (diatonic transposition and rearranging
> buildscripts).

Ok.  Could you add a "make test" or "make simple" or something
like that in the texinfo/ dir?  This would create a version of the
texinfo portion of the website which is created with texi2html
*only*.  No imagemagick, no awk, ideally no python either... this
is to be used by windows people who have texi2html working but
nothing else, and still want to write/edit content for the
website.

BTW, buildscripts: wait until 2.12.1 (the first 2.12 release that
people might be happy with :)  is out.

> > > Two ways:
> > > 1) use ImageMagick/convert to scale images at build time;
> > 
> > Seriously?  I was expecting that we could do {scale=50%} or
> > something like that... oh well.
> 
> Maybe texi2html already supports this; if not, let's send a feature
> request.

To be fair, texinfo itself doesn't appear to support scaling by a
percentage, only by an absolute number (like 4in or 100pt).


> OK, and don't forget suggesting contributions on the graphical design
> and layout, which anybody can propose in HTML/CSS; then I can implement
> the adopted new design in the Python scripts.

Ok, added.

Cheers,
- Graham


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Re: creating dev/gop-web

2008-12-27 Thread John Mandereau
Le samedi 27 décembre 2008 à 16:54 -0800, Graham Percival a écrit :
> Could you add a "make test" or "make simple" or something
> like that in the texinfo/ dir?  This would create a version of the
> texinfo portion of the website which is created with texi2html
> *only*.  No imagemagick, no awk, ideally no python either... this
> is to be used by windows people who have texi2html working but
> nothing else, and still want to write/edit content for the
> website.

We don't need awk, and texinfo/ will be scraped soon.  I think Texinfo
stuff should be built in a first stage called "texinfo", with subtargets
called "texipdf" and "texihtml", which anybody will be able to run
outside the whole building process.


> BTW, buildscripts: wait until 2.12.1 (the first 2.12 release that
> people might be happy with :)  is out.

Okay.


> To be fair, texinfo itself doesn't appear to support scaling by a
> percentage, only by an absolute number (like 4in or 100pt).

If there are only few images to be scaled, we could store them in two
sizes in Git, a bit like what is in current web-gop branch.

Cheers,
John



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Re: LilyPond incompatible with Guile 1.8.6

2008-12-27 Thread John Mandereau
Hi Patrick,
Le samedi 27 décembre 2008 à 15:32 -0800, Patrick McCarty a écrit :
> I noticed an interesting thread a few days ago on the Guile mailing
> list related to LilyPond.  Here is the thread:
> 
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2008-12/msg00039.html
> 
> The suggested fix is trivial, and I've tested the latest git with
> Guile 1.8.6 and 1.8.4 on GNU/Linux x86.  I don't know if any other
> part of the source code should be changed, but I haven't noticed any
> side-effects yet.  Attached is the patch I've been using.

I've tested with make test-baseline/check and noticed no difference on a
Fedora 9 x86_64 box with Guile 1.8.5, so I pushed your patch.

Thanks,
John



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Problem in web

2008-12-27 Thread Francisco Vila
In
http://lilypond.org/web/install/index.html
there is a problem in the column LilyPond Version for 2.12: unexpanded
macro, perhaps?

-- 
Francisco Vila. Badajoz (Spain)
http://www.paconet.org


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2.12 on Leopard

2008-12-27 Thread Josh Parmenter
I just noticed that the 2.12 download for Mac Leopard still has  
directions for building, etc. I thought the wrapper app problems had  
been solved? Is this not the case?


Best,

Josh

**
/* Joshua D. Parmenter
http://www.realizedsound.net/josh/

“Every composer – at all times and in all cases – gives his own  
interpretation of how modern society is structured: whether actively  
or passively, consciously or unconsciously, he makes choices in this  
regard. He may be conservative or he may subject himself to continual  
renewal; or he may strive for a revolutionary, historical or social  
palingenesis." - Luigi Nono

*/

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Re: 2.12 on Leopard

2008-12-27 Thread Patrick McCarty
Hi Josh,

On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Josh Parmenter  wrote:
> I just noticed that the 2.12 download for Mac Leopard still has directions
> for building, etc. I thought the wrapper app problems had been solved? Is
> this not the case?

I think the problem is that the wrapper app *only* works on Leopard.
IIRC, there were reports of it not working on 10.4.

-Patrick


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Re: LilyPond incompatible with Guile 1.8.6

2008-12-27 Thread Patrick McCarty
Thanks, John!

-Patrick

On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 5:21 PM, John Mandereau
 wrote:
> Hi Patrick,
> Le samedi 27 décembre 2008 à 15:32 -0800, Patrick McCarty a écrit :
>> I noticed an interesting thread a few days ago on the Guile mailing
>> list related to LilyPond.  Here is the thread:
>>
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2008-12/msg00039.html
>>
>> The suggested fix is trivial, and I've tested the latest git with
>> Guile 1.8.6 and 1.8.4 on GNU/Linux x86.  I don't know if any other
>> part of the source code should be changed, but I haven't noticed any
>> side-effects yet.  Attached is the patch I've been using.
>
> I've tested with make test-baseline/check and noticed no difference on a
> Fedora 9 x86_64 box with Guile 1.8.5, so I pushed your patch.
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
>
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Re: 2.12 on Leopard

2008-12-27 Thread Josh Parmenter
So why not make the 10.5 package use it? Or is there a way to make it  
available? It seems like it would make more sense to point users to  
the 10.5 only wrapper then to continue directing them to build / hack  
it themselves... no?


http://lilypond.org/web/install/

If there is a way I could help out with this, I'd be more then happy  
to... just let me know what needs to be done.


Best,

Josh

On Dec 27, 2008, at 7:06 PM, Patrick McCarty wrote:


Hi Josh,

On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Josh Parmenter > wrote:
I just noticed that the 2.12 download for Mac Leopard still has  
directions
for building, etc. I thought the wrapper app problems had been  
solved? Is

this not the case?


I think the problem is that the wrapper app *only* works on Leopard.
IIRC, there were reports of it not working on 10.4.

-Patrick


**
/* Joshua D. Parmenter
http://www.realizedsound.net/josh/

“Every composer – at all times and in all cases – gives his own  
interpretation of how modern society is structured: whether actively  
or passively, consciously or unconsciously, he makes choices in this  
regard. He may be conservative or he may subject himself to continual  
renewal; or he may strive for a revolutionary, historical or social  
palingenesis." - Luigi Nono

*/



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Re: creating dev/gop-web

2008-12-27 Thread Werner LEMBERG

> > > > 1) use ImageMagick/convert to scale images at build time;
> > >
> > > Seriously?  I was expecting that we could do {scale=50%} or
> > > something like that... oh well.
> >
> > Maybe texi2html already supports this; if not, let's send a
> > feature request.
>
> To be fair, texinfo itself doesn't appear to support scaling by a
> percentage, only by an absolute number (like 4in or 100pt).

Yes, a feature request is necessary since the current syntax of @image
doesn't allow this (it should be rather easy to implement, I think).


Werner


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