Re: [issues] Screenshots
On Wed, 20 Oct 1999, Ingrid Schupbach wrote: > BEWARE! THE MESSAGE BELOW IS AN ANGRY RANT: > > I am fed-up with all these screenshots that include pictures of scantily > clad or otherwise sexually charged pictures of women. When I was trying > to find a good new theme from e.themes.org I was really turned off by > this. I find that this is just another example of how the Linux community > often -- probably largely unknowingly and unwittingly -- creates a boy's > lockeroom atmosphere. As a woman, it just doesn't make it seem like I'm > really invited. As a woman, I still really enjoy looking at pretty people. Male AND female. Not to mention, when I go to themes.org to look for a theme, I am looking at the THEME, not the pics that people have in their screenshots. > I respect the Linux mantra that everyone should be able to design their > computers and their piece of cyberspace in whatever way they choose. But > messages should not be sent out carelessly and thoughtlessly. If there > really is a commitment to making Linux inviting to everyone, then I > believe there needs to be a change in the horny-male-geeks-only atmosphere > that's awfully pervasive. I'm tired of being asked whether I'm a > perky-breasted-Linux-chick, and I'm tired of endless references to penises > and to porn in Linux-related irc channels. It sounds like you are just a little too worked up over this. Realistically, the Linux community has a lot more men than women. I don't see that themes.org is inundated with images of scantily clad women. I see a low ratio, in fact, and most of the time the images are of a model or actress, rather than some piece of web scoured porn. In all cases, I have found the images to be tasteful. I think its a matter of realizing that you are there to look at the THEMES, rather than to judge the quality and/or kind of images people use in their screenshots. The two are totally unrelated, as far as I can tell. Just becuase you don't like the images people have in their screenshots, you feel uninvted? You feel there is a male-lockerroom atmosphere? Ok. What if it were that there was a majoity of SF/Fantasy based images? If you don't like those, would you still feel uninvited and would you think that the atmosphere was overbalanced, in favor of SF/Fantasy geeks? How about country music stars? How about images of animals? Is your response not so strong to these categories, because they are not so "sexually charged?" Would you feel better if there were an equal number of scantily clad men in these screenshots? Really. Most of the people in the Linux community are men, and if they want to put sexy women in their screenshots, then GREAT. I will start protesting the day they put in things like images of dismembered children, and not a day before. +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+* http://www.ganzir.org/siozie/ *+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_ )\._.,--,'``. Full Riot Pussycat /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. fL `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'Pussy Wrangler Extraordinaire [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: [issues] Screenshots
On Wed, 20 Oct 1999, Kelly Lynn Martin wrote: > On Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:34:26 -0600 (MDT), Sio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > >As a woman, I still really enjoy looking at pretty people. Male AND > >female. Not to mention, when I go to themes.org to look for a theme, > >I am looking at the THEME, not the pics that people have in their > >screenshots. > > There's a theme on themes.org that has a bunch of beer-commercial-type > pictures as an integral part of the theme. I don't consider digitally > modifying the photo to scribble "LINUX 2.0" on the waistband of the > model's rather scanty swimsuit "tasteful" either. *hahahahaha* See that's the great thing about the world. Your idea of tasteful is obviously different from mine. I think that's funny as hell. You obviously don't :) Oh well. +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+* http://www.ganzir.org/siozie/ *+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_ )\._.,--,'``. Full Riot Pussycat /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. fL `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'Pussy Wrangler Extraordinaire [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: Why I Find Those Screenshots Offensive [issues]
On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Neil ''Fred'' Picciotto wrote: > > > > but here's where the implied intended audience comes in. if LinuxUserA > > chooses as the sample file in gimp an image that is clearly designed for > > men to enjoy, then the screenshot tends to imply that the intended audience > > for that screenshot is male. now because the explicitly stated intended > > audience is all linux users, this in turn implies that linux users are men. > > which often makes women feel unwelcome. now, you may think that they > > *shouldn't* be made to feel unwelcome by this kind of thing, but the fact > > is that many of them do. you also may not care whether or not they feel > > welcome, but i for one do. and that's why i find it inappropriate and > > offensive to include such images in that context. > > Please forgive the low content in this response but: > > That is a WONDERFUL statement of the point - thank you for analysing WHY > we get upset - and I hope you don't mind (please) if I use this explanation > myself in the future. Because I'd never actually managed to analyse it to > this level, and it's so RIGHT!! I guess this makes sense, I just don't see it that way. When I go to look at a screenshot, and I see a scantily clad babe, I take it in stride. It doesn't give me the impression that it was intended for male perusal, especially given that there are a lot of bi/gay women out there. I have always just assumed that someone had a cool image they thought would look good in the screenshot. Perhaps it comes from having hung out with the boys most of my life. I just don't believe that a pic in a screenshot, an image UNRELATED to the theme itself (assuming we are discussing the non-adult themes), makes that much of a difference. +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+* http://www.ganzir.org/siozie/ *+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_ )\._.,--,'``. Full Riot Pussycat /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. fL `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'Pussy Wrangler Extraordinaire [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: Fw: [issues] Screenshots - on a lighter note
On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Michelle wrote: > Seriously, though... I'm sure that the random porn in these themes is making > some women feel alienated. If the theme is all about porn, I guess that's > one thing - there is that demographic that just loves that sort of thing > but to display a beautiful but not-quite-so-clothed woman in an otherwise > benign theme for the sake of shock value isn't really necessary. I'm glad ^^^ > this has been brought up and discussed, it's something I had just sort of > accepted and not really thought too deeply about. It's not anywhere near > the sort of alienation of women I ran into when I was into carpentry and ^ > welding... but it is there. I'm really starting to wonder if people are just being WAY too thin skinned. Do any of you honestly believe that these people (be they men OR women) are putting babes in their screenshots in order to alienate the women in the linux community? Do you believe they are doing it for shock value? To get a rise out of you? Ok, sure, there are likely a few people who are doing it for those reasons. I disbelieve that these people are the majority, and I would be taken aback to find out that you guys are upset because you think they are doing all of this on purpose. Granted, I firmly believe that most people suck. However, I think it would be beyond ridiculous to state that these images are put there for any purpose other than the innocent "She's a babe, and would look cool in this screenshot" reason. All of this starts me thinking back to my belief that people have become SO worked up over objectification of women, that ANYTHING representing gorgeous women in little clothing is deemed offensive. It feels like men (and those of us who LIKE women too) are not allowed to appreciate the female body, to take sexy pictures and share them with the world, or to put images of them in advertizing and movies. YES, objectification is a problem. However, all images of scantily clad women are NOT objectification. +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+* http://www.ganzir.org/siozie/ *+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_ )\._.,--,'``. Full Riot Pussycat /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. fL `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'Pussy Wrangler Extraordinaire [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: Fw: [issues] Screenshots - on a lighter note
On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Cat wrote: > Actually, no, I don't believe that they are doing it for shock value or to > get a rise out of me. If that were the case, it would bespeak an > understanding that those types of images CAN be construed as having shock > value or that there is some reason they would get a rise out of anyone. > That would be a good understanding. The thing I don't like is the > UN-thinking nature of the postings. *whew!* > I understand from your posts that you have a pro-porn perspective, which > is certainly a fine position to take. However, I feel a distinctly > unfriendly atmosphere if I walk into a place that has girlie pictures all > over the walls. I do not think that most places (unless clearly > demarcated) that are inviting to both males and females generally have > adult pictures plastered up. As someone earlier pointed out, the images that people are complaining about are not "adult" images. Adult images implies nudity, and possibly sexual act portrayal. Mostly just the suggestion of sexual acts. The images we frequently see on theme screenshots are of movie stars, models and comic book characters. Most of them I have easily identified as coming from supermarket magazines and mainstream comics. They are sexy, yes, but not quite what classifies as adult. The difference between walking into a room with Adult images on the walls, and images of actors/models is WAY different in my eyes. Still, the former would feel inviting to me, for both sexes. I guess I will chalk that up to the number of gay/bi friends I have. Its never occurred to me that the images themselves represented an unwelcome atmosphere. Its always been the people who put the images up, and their attitude towards other people that tells me I'm not wanted :) +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+* http://www.ganzir.org/siozie/ *+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_ )\._.,--,'``. Full Riot Pussycat /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. fL `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'Pussy Wrangler Extraordinaire [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: Fw: [issues] Screenshots - on a lighter note
On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Nicole Zimmerman wrote: > But why does she *need* to be in the screenshot in the first place if > it's not about her, or something related to her? Why does everything in the screenshot HAVE to be about the theme? Isn't the purpose of a screenshot to show what the theme looks like while being used, rather than what it looks like with a bunch of apps and images put there because they relate to the theme? Apps and images that you may not have? > But, if you're looking for a wide audience or have a very general theme, > a picture of nekkidWomanA isn't necessarily within your target > audience... Its not necessarily out of your target audience, either. As I pointed out before, we are there to look at the THEMES, and the images contained in the screenshots are just so much noise. It doesn't matter to me what people put there, because that's not why I am looking at the screenshot. > unless... you think the "community" that uses windowmaker (or less > specifically X) would always like a picture of nekkidWomanA, and we run > into the problem I believe we started out discussing. How do we let the > people who think everyone wants to see nekkidWomanA know that NOT > everyone is looking for nekkidWomanA or would enjoy seeing nekkidWomanA > in their perusal of themes? There *is* an Adult section, and anything relating to nakedness is put there. Problem solved. I don't believe its necessary to take it a step further, and tell people not to put images of models in their screenshots. > > All of this starts me thinking back to my belief that people have become > > SO worked up over objectification of women, that ANYTHING representing > > gorgeous women in little clothing is deemed offensive. It feels like men > > (and those of us who LIKE women too) are not allowed to appreciate the > > female body, to take sexy pictures and share them with the world, or to > > put images of them in advertizing and movies. YES, objectification is a > > problem. However, all images of scantily clad women are NOT > > objectification. > > So since there are more people that like women (male or female), we > should not be bothered by it at all? That is not my point, and if that is how it reads, (which it doesn;t to me, natch :) then my apologies. My point is that people take their offended sensibilities too far, and try to tell people they can't even THINK about looking at/creating images that could be said to objectify women. Or men. Its NOT a gender issue. Its not about which party has the majority. Its about dealing with the fact that people LIKE to appreciate male and female forms, and the act of putting these images in a screenshot is not such a big deal. Again, all my own opinion. To some people it is a big deal, and quite honestly, that's fine as long as they don't tell me what I can and cannot put on a public website. The lines between Adult and non-adult themes is firmly drawn. Bikkini-clad women can be seen in many places, and I think that attacking themes.org is ridiculous. There are too many OTHER places where its a real issue. Go look at a website for racecar-fanatics, or low-riders. Pick up one of those magazines. Take a long hard look, and then try to tell me that themes.org screenshots compete with THAT. And since I have just been repeating myself, I think I will stop here. I am quite outnumbered here anyhow ;) +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+* http://www.ganzir.org/siozie/ *+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_ )\._.,--,'``. Full Riot Pussycat /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. fL `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'Pussy Wrangler Extraordinaire [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Re: Fw: [issues] Screenshots - on a lighter note
On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Deirdre Saoirse wrote: > On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Sio wrote: > > > On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Nicole Zimmerman wrote: > > > > > But why does she *need* to be in the screenshot in the first place if > > > it's not about her, or something related to her? > > > > Why does everything in the screenshot HAVE to be about the theme? > > That's what "theme" means. You are picking out one part of my argument, and playing with the semantics. If you had quoted my next few lines, I made myself more clear. The purpose of a theme screenshot is to show what the theme looks like during normal use. Normal use does not usually involve just the things that fit in with the color and feel of the theme. Someone did bring up a good point that a lot of times, the screenshots are cluttered with all kinds of apps and images, and therefore are blocking a good view of what the theme looks like. That bugs me as well. Its also a separate issue from the "scantily clad femmes" discussion. :) +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+* http://www.ganzir.org/siozie/ *+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_ )\._.,--,'``. Full Riot Pussycat /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. fL `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'Pussy Wrangler Extraordinaire [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
