Re: [issues] ESR's Sex Tips for Geeks

2001-04-06 Thread James A . Sutherland

On Fri, 6 Apr 2001 00:22:27 -0500, you wrote:
>From: James A. Sutherland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> On Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:13:04 +1000, Mary wrote:
>>>But should it be the first thing on your mind when you meet a woman, any
>>>woman.
>>>
>> Certainly not - I did say **when date-seeking**. In the same way, if I
>> were looking for someone to help me with a buggy Perl script, "does
>> she know much about Perl?" would be uppermost on my mind!
>
>Yes, and do you do anything to determine, beforehand, that the
>woman you've decided in your current "target" is also date-seeking
>or at least willing to have you "date-seek" her?

You don't "date-seek" a person: it's a state, not a process, so there
is no "target"... As I get to know someone, male or female, I will
learn various things about them. If we met and you mentioned being a
serious Perl hacker, I'd ask if you could help me with that Perl
script. This doesn't mean I'm walking down the street asking everyone
I pass "Do you know how to  in Perl?"! Similarly, as I get to
know someone, I might start finding her attractive. I'm not quite sure
what to do at that point, so I just run away and hide.

>Consider -- no matter how nice you are, or how interested you
>are in dating me and how much I might be looking to date someone,
>you have this very serious defect which renders you outside my
>circle of potential partners.

"Circle of potential partners"? Think about it: what determines
whether or not someone is on that list? One of the criteria, surely,
is plausibility - whether or not that person might potentially be
interested? If the answer to that one is "no", the person can't be on
the list, which is pretty much what I was getting at earlier...

>>> Some men have told me it's inevitable that I get sized up as a
>>> sexual partner everytime I meet a heterosexual man.
>>
>> Hrm. I'm a heterosexual man, and I don't think that way - obviously,
>> if I find myself attracted to someone I would wonder if the attraction
>> is mutual - 
>
>When I meet a woman, and I think this is relevant because we
>are both attracted to women, the thing that comes to mind
>first (even if she's a really hot babe ...) is not "does she think
>I'm a really hot babe".

I know - that approach isn't just shallow, it's 2D! Apart from
anything else, I would need to know more about a person before being
attracted to her. However, when I first meet someone (male or female)
I DO wonder how they feel towards me.

>> Eh? How can someone *thinking* something about you put you in an awful
>> situation?! Surely they would have to ACT on those thoughts in some
>> way for you even to know about them?!
>
>Is this an honest question or are you intentionally pretending to
>be stupid?

Unless I've suddenly developed telekinetic powers, my thoughts cannot
affect others in any way. You only see what I *DO*, not what I think.


James.

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Re: [issues] ESR's Sex Tips for Geeks

2001-04-06 Thread jenn

James A. Sutherland wrote:

> Similarly, as I get to
> know someone, I might start finding her attractive. I'm not quite sure
> what to do at that point, so I just run away and hide.

And that gets you nowhere. :)

Try just being friendly. Try just being /friends/. There's no reason you
can't be friends with someone you find attractive.
In fact, a hell of a lot of people who are generally-attractive have
a problem - noone's willing to be friends with them!

> However, when I first meet someone (male or female)
> I DO wonder how they feel towards me.

That's very easy: they don't. They've only just met you.

The most anyone could possibly have of you is a 
first-impression. And we all know that they change.

One of the very hardest things for me is when someone I've just met
says 'can we be friends?'. What do I say? 'I don't know, I've only just
met you' is honest, but when I've tried it it's really upset them. They
seem to want a 'no' or a 'yes' - and I don't KNOW that. 

Be patient. *I* never know how I feel about someone I've just met. 
I assume that noone else does, either. ('love-at-first-sight' cases
excepted.)
 
>>> Eh? How can someone *thinking* something about you put you in an awful
>>> situation?! Surely they would have to ACT on those thoughts in some
>>> way for you even to know about them?!
>> 
>> Is this an honest question or are you intentionally pretending to
>> be stupid?
> 
> 
> Unless I've suddenly developed telekinetic powers, my thoughts cannot
> affect others in any way. You only see what I *DO*, not what I think.
But what you think comes out in what you do, in subtle and unconscious 
ways. And THAT is what we're reacting to.




Jenn V.
-- 
 "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
 you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/


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Re: [issues] ESR's Sex Tips for Geeks (sp: semi-coherent rant)

2001-04-06 Thread jenn

Julie wrote:

 
> Could you ellaborate on that?!?  I'm friends with a number of
> seps (as well as an ex-lover of one) and can't think of any
> definition by which a lesbian separatist isn't a lesbian.

Only case I can think of: 

women who are separatist, but celibate-by-nature (as in, not attracted
to either gender).

Hm. That begs the following case:

women who are separatist, but by-nature attracted to men, and thus
remain celibate by choice.



Jenn V.
-- 
 "Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
 you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/


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