Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release
On 13 September 2017 at 10:41, Emmanuel Bernard wrote: > On Tue 17-09-12 13:50, Yoann Rodiere wrote: >>> >>> >>> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X >>> is a question we want addressed from the top level menus >>> >> >> Always amazed that there's still people out there actually downloading >> JARs >> manually. But yes, we shouldn't forget about them. >> >> My problem with "downloads" is that, while it conveys the correct meaning >> for the minority (I hope) of users not using Maven/Gradle, it's really not >> appropriate as an entry point to pages giving information about >> series/releases. >> Let's put it that way: >> >> - To a user looking for info about a particular release (maven GAV, >> changelog, ...) , a "download" entry isn't even remotely relevant >> - To a user looking to download packages, a "releases" entry does seem a >> bit relevant > > > You are right on principle. But if you look around, pretty much all > software websites have a download button leading to a page where you can > find releases, changelog etc. People are trained. > > http://kafka.apache.org/downloads > http://struts.apache.org/download.cgi#struts2513 > http://vertx.io/download/ > > > Spring is the exception but they have one big page for everything per > project. Not what we want. > And GitHub which has Releases https://github.com/google/guava > > I'm still not recovered from GitHub's move from Downloads to Releases to > be honest. > > If everyone thinks Releases is clearer and more intuitive, I won't > block. - having a "Downloads" link is essential - having a "Releases" page is what we think is more useful, for many good reasons Yet we agree they are slightly different in nature. Could we ride the differences and generate them both? Especially "Releases" could be a good home for all older releases and the "Past Roadmaps" which Emmanuel suggested before we should have, yet I said they don't belong on "Roadmap". On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy? Thanks, Sanne > >> >> But if you really want a "download" entry in the menu... would it be okay >> if it just redirected to the "releases" page? I'll do that for now. >> >> - if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect >>> >>> rules not to break URLs >>> >> >> I already did. Redirects don't seem to work locally for some reason, >> though. They work on staging. >> >> >>> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you >>> proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series >>> >> >> Steve found "latest releases" "confusing" (if I understood correctly). I >> changed it to "Series" as you suggested. >> >> >>> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each individual >>> series page. >>> >> >> Done. >> >> >>> - the matrix does not scale very well to that many versions. >>> >> >> Could you be more specific? Is it that you're having trouble finding out >> which cell relates to which HSearch version, or which cell relates to >> which >> dependency, or about the size of columns not being the same, or... ? I'd >> rather know exactly what's wrong before trying to mess with the CSS, >> because solutions to each of these problems will probably require to use >> more horizontal space, and as you can see we don't have that much >> available. > > > It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version, should I > scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically with > version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit. > > It does not work well on phones either. > > > >> >> >>> - in the dedicated series page, "Reference" is confusing, I'd probably >>> replace it with documentation or main documentation >> >> >> >> Done. >> >> Since there seems to be a general agreement that it's not worse than it >> used to be, I'll send a PR soon. We can continue the discussion there. >> >> >> >> Yoann Rodière >> Hibernate NoORM Team >> yo...@hibernate.org >> >> On 11 September 2017 at 15:54, Emmanuel Bernard >> wrote: >> >>> Hey Yoann and all, >>> >>> Thanks Yoann for stepping up. This is definitely much better. >>> Here are non ordered comments: >>> >>> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X >>> is a question we want addressed from the top level menus >>> - if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect >>> rules not to break URLs >>> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you >>> proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series >>> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each individual >>> series page. >>> - the matrix does not scale very well to that many versions. >>> - in the dedicated series page, "Reference" is confusing, I'd probably >>> replace it with documentatio
Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release
On Tue 17-09-12 13:50, Yoann Rodiere wrote:
>>
>> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X
>> is a question we want addressed from the top level menus
>>
>
>Always amazed that there's still people out there actually downloading JARs
>manually. But yes, we shouldn't forget about them.
>
>My problem with "downloads" is that, while it conveys the correct meaning
>for the minority (I hope) of users not using Maven/Gradle, it's really not
>appropriate as an entry point to pages giving information about
>series/releases.
>Let's put it that way:
>
> - To a user looking for info about a particular release (maven GAV,
> changelog, ...) , a "download" entry isn't even remotely relevant
> - To a user looking to download packages, a "releases" entry does seem a
> bit relevant
You are right on principle. But if you look around, pretty much all
software websites have a download button leading to a page where you can
find releases, changelog etc. People are trained.
http://kafka.apache.org/downloads
http://struts.apache.org/download.cgi#struts2513
http://vertx.io/download/
Spring is the exception but they have one big page for everything per
project. Not what we want.
And GitHub which has Releases https://github.com/google/guava
I'm still not recovered from GitHub's move from Downloads to Releases to
be honest.
If everyone thinks Releases is clearer and more intuitive, I won't
block.
>
>But if you really want a "download" entry in the menu... would it be okay
>if it just redirected to the "releases" page? I'll do that for now.
>
>- if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect
>> rules not to break URLs
>>
>
>I already did. Redirects don't seem to work locally for some reason,
>though. They work on staging.
>
>
>> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you
>> proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series
>>
>
>Steve found "latest releases" "confusing" (if I understood correctly). I
>changed it to "Series" as you suggested.
>
>
>> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each individual
>> series page.
>>
>
>Done.
>
>
>> - the matrix does not scale very well to that many versions.
>>
>
>Could you be more specific? Is it that you're having trouble finding out
>which cell relates to which HSearch version, or which cell relates to which
>dependency, or about the size of columns not being the same, or... ? I'd
>rather know exactly what's wrong before trying to mess with the CSS,
>because solutions to each of these problems will probably require to use
>more horizontal space, and as you can see we don't have that much available.
It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version, should I
scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically with
version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit.
It does not work well on phones either.
>
>
>> - in the dedicated series page, "Reference" is confusing, I'd probably
>> replace it with documentation or main documentation
>
>
>Done.
>
>Since there seems to be a general agreement that it's not worse than it
>used to be, I'll send a PR soon. We can continue the discussion there.
>
>
>
>Yoann Rodière
>Hibernate NoORM Team
>yo...@hibernate.org
>
>On 11 September 2017 at 15:54, Emmanuel Bernard
>wrote:
>
>> Hey Yoann and all,
>>
>> Thanks Yoann for stepping up. This is definitely much better.
>> Here are non ordered comments:
>>
>> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X
>> is a question we want addressed from the top level menus
>> - if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect
>> rules not to break URLs
>> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you
>> proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series
>> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each individual
>> series page.
>> - the matrix does not scale very well to that many versions.
>> - in the dedicated series page, "Reference" is confusing, I'd probably
>> replace it with documentation or main documentation
>>
>> Emmanuel
>>
>> On Fri 17-09-08 14:53, Yoann Rodiere wrote:
>>
>>> Hey,
>>>
>>> I pushed an update to staging. I only converted the "Search" part for now.
>>> What changes:
>>>
>>> - The _data folder structured changed a bit, so that we can introduces a
>>> YAML file for each series (5.5, 5.6, 5.6, 5.8, ...), containing a
>>> summary
>>> of this series and a list of integration constraints (ORM > 5.2, etc.)
>>> - The "Downloads" page is renamed to "Releases", since, well, it's about
>>> more than just downloads. See
>>> http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/
>>> - The "Releases" page now includes a "Compatibilty matrix" section based
>>> on the new data I mentioned above
>>> - The "Releases" page now includes links to one page for each series
>>> ("More on the 5.8 series")
>>> - There is now one page for each s
Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release
> > It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version, should I > scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically with > version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit. At least versions are in desc order :D More seriously, I was more worried about the number of dependencies than about the number of series. We don't want to maintain a hundred branches, so we'll probably try to keep the number of series to a minimum, but we do want to offer as much as possible to users, so we may offer many different integrations, and thus many different dependencies. Just think if the ORM team wants to display supported versions of each DBMS... So I thought showing versions horizontally would be more future-proof. I'll try to add horizontal scrolling to the table. The oldest releases may not be displayed, but then those are not the one we want to advertise, so... And in any case, we have limited horizontal space, so we have to hide *something*. About phones, I think bootstrap has something, I'll give it a try. On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some > basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases > descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy? Sure, we can do that. But the "downloads" page will essentially be a stripped-down version of the "releases" page. Yoann Rodière Hibernate NoORM Team yo...@hibernate.org On 13 September 2017 at 11:48, Sanne Grinovero wrote: > On 13 September 2017 at 10:41, Emmanuel Bernard > wrote: > > On Tue 17-09-12 13:50, Yoann Rodiere wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X > >>> is a question we want addressed from the top level menus > >>> > >> > >> Always amazed that there's still people out there actually downloading > >> JARs > >> manually. But yes, we shouldn't forget about them. > >> > >> My problem with "downloads" is that, while it conveys the correct > meaning > >> for the minority (I hope) of users not using Maven/Gradle, it's really > not > >> appropriate as an entry point to pages giving information about > >> series/releases. > >> Let's put it that way: > >> > >> - To a user looking for info about a particular release (maven GAV, > >> changelog, ...) , a "download" entry isn't even remotely relevant > >> - To a user looking to download packages, a "releases" entry does > seem a > >> bit relevant > > > > > > You are right on principle. But if you look around, pretty much all > > software websites have a download button leading to a page where you can > > find releases, changelog etc. People are trained. > > > > http://kafka.apache.org/downloads > > http://struts.apache.org/download.cgi#struts2513 > > http://vertx.io/download/ > > > > > > Spring is the exception but they have one big page for everything per > > project. Not what we want. > > And GitHub which has Releases https://github.com/google/guava > > > > I'm still not recovered from GitHub's move from Downloads to Releases to > > be honest. > > > > If everyone thinks Releases is clearer and more intuitive, I won't > > block. > > - having a "Downloads" link is essential > - having a "Releases" page is what we think is more useful, for many > good reasons > > Yet we agree they are slightly different in nature. Could we ride the > differences and generate them both? > > Especially "Releases" could be a good home for all older releases and > the "Past Roadmaps" which Emmanuel suggested before we should have, > yet I said they don't belong on "Roadmap". > On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some > basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases > descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy? > > Thanks, > Sanne > > > > > >> > >> But if you really want a "download" entry in the menu... would it be > okay > >> if it just redirected to the "releases" page? I'll do that for now. > >> > >> - if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect > >>> > >>> rules not to break URLs > >>> > >> > >> I already did. Redirects don't seem to work locally for some reason, > >> though. They work on staging. > >> > >> > >>> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you > >>> proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series > >>> > >> > >> Steve found "latest releases" "confusing" (if I understood correctly). I > >> changed it to "Series" as you suggested. > >> > >> > >>> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each > individual > >>> series page. > >>> > >> > >> Done. > >> > >> > >>> - the matrix does not scale very well to that many versions. > >>> > >> > >> Could you be more specific? Is it that you're having trouble finding out > >> which cell relates to which HSearch version, or which cell relates to > >> which > >> dependency, or about the size of columns not being the same, or... ? I'd > >> rather know exactly what's wrong b
Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release
On 13 September 2017 at 10:51, Yoann Rodiere wrote: >> It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version, should I >> scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically with >> version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit. > > > At least versions are in desc order :D > More seriously, I was more worried about the number of dependencies than > about the number of series. We don't want to maintain a hundred branches, so > we'll probably try to keep the number of series to a minimum, but we do want > to offer as much as possible to users, so we may offer many different > integrations, and thus many different dependencies. Just think if the ORM > team wants to display supported versions of each DBMS... So I thought > showing versions horizontally would be more future-proof. > I'll try to add horizontal scrolling to the table. The oldest releases may > not be displayed, but then those are not the one we want to advertise, so... > And in any case, we have limited horizontal space, so we have to hide > *something*. > About phones, I think bootstrap has something, I'll give it a try. > >> On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some >> basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases >> descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy? > > > Sure, we can do that. But the "downloads" page will essentially be a > stripped-down version of the "releases" page. +1 since maintenance is automated I see no problem with a little redundancy. > > > Yoann Rodière > Hibernate NoORM Team > yo...@hibernate.org > > On 13 September 2017 at 11:48, Sanne Grinovero wrote: >> >> On 13 September 2017 at 10:41, Emmanuel Bernard >> wrote: >> > On Tue 17-09-12 13:50, Yoann Rodiere wrote: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X >> >>> is a question we want addressed from the top level menus >> >>> >> >> >> >> Always amazed that there's still people out there actually downloading >> >> JARs >> >> manually. But yes, we shouldn't forget about them. >> >> >> >> My problem with "downloads" is that, while it conveys the correct >> >> meaning >> >> for the minority (I hope) of users not using Maven/Gradle, it's really >> >> not >> >> appropriate as an entry point to pages giving information about >> >> series/releases. >> >> Let's put it that way: >> >> >> >> - To a user looking for info about a particular release (maven GAV, >> >> changelog, ...) , a "download" entry isn't even remotely relevant >> >> - To a user looking to download packages, a "releases" entry does >> >> seem a >> >> bit relevant >> > >> > >> > You are right on principle. But if you look around, pretty much all >> > software websites have a download button leading to a page where you can >> > find releases, changelog etc. People are trained. >> > >> > http://kafka.apache.org/downloads >> > http://struts.apache.org/download.cgi#struts2513 >> > http://vertx.io/download/ >> > >> > >> > Spring is the exception but they have one big page for everything per >> > project. Not what we want. >> > And GitHub which has Releases https://github.com/google/guava >> > >> > I'm still not recovered from GitHub's move from Downloads to Releases to >> > be honest. >> > >> > If everyone thinks Releases is clearer and more intuitive, I won't >> > block. >> >> - having a "Downloads" link is essential >> - having a "Releases" page is what we think is more useful, for many >> good reasons >> >> Yet we agree they are slightly different in nature. Could we ride the >> differences and generate them both? >> >> Especially "Releases" could be a good home for all older releases and >> the "Past Roadmaps" which Emmanuel suggested before we should have, >> yet I said they don't belong on "Roadmap". >> On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some >> basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases >> descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy? >> >> Thanks, >> Sanne >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> But if you really want a "download" entry in the menu... would it be >> >> okay >> >> if it just redirected to the "releases" page? I'll do that for now. >> >> >> >> - if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect >> >>> >> >>> rules not to break URLs >> >>> >> >> >> >> I already did. Redirects don't seem to work locally for some reason, >> >> though. They work on staging. >> >> >> >> >> >>> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you >> >>> proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series >> >>> >> >> >> >> Steve found "latest releases" "confusing" (if I understood correctly). >> >> I >> >> changed it to "Series" as you suggested. >> >> >> >> >> >>> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each >> >>> individual >> >>> series page. >> >>> >> >> >> >> Done. >> >> >> >> >> >>> - the matrix does not scale very well to that ma
[hibernate-dev] Preparing to release 5.2.11
I'm getting ready to release 5.2.11. Please do not push any commits to master branch until I announce the release. Thanks, Gail ___ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
[hibernate-dev] Hibernate ORM 5.2.11.Final Released
http://in.relation.to/2017/09/13/hibernate-orm-5211-final-release/ ___ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
[hibernate-dev] Good behaviour & pull requests
Hi all, I recently sent a pull request containing, among others, a very specific paragraph of documentation. This was merged with no other comment than a thank you, and I appreciate both the speed and thanks. BUT checking now after the release is done, as I am in need to refer to this section, I see my paragraph was altered, and it's wrong, or confusing at best. That's not fair. It's nice and pragmatic that we all occasionally take initiative and decide on some flexibility on the PR process, but please please please let the PR author know when you decide to make some changes so they get the opportunity to disagree. Thanks, Sanne ___ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
