On Tue 17-09-12 13:50, Yoann Rodiere wrote: >> >> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X >> is a question we want addressed from the top level menus >> > >Always amazed that there's still people out there actually downloading JARs >manually. But yes, we shouldn't forget about them. > >My problem with "downloads" is that, while it conveys the correct meaning >for the minority (I hope) of users not using Maven/Gradle, it's really not >appropriate as an entry point to pages giving information about >series/releases. >Let's put it that way: > > - To a user looking for info about a particular release (maven GAV, > changelog, ...) , a "download" entry isn't even remotely relevant > - To a user looking to download packages, a "releases" entry does seem a > bit relevant
You are right on principle. But if you look around, pretty much all software websites have a download button leading to a page where you can find releases, changelog etc. People are trained. http://kafka.apache.org/downloads http://struts.apache.org/download.cgi#struts2513 http://vertx.io/download/ Spring is the exception but they have one big page for everything per project. Not what we want. And GitHub which has Releases https://github.com/google/guava I'm still not recovered from GitHub's move from Downloads to Releases to be honest. If everyone thinks Releases is clearer and more intuitive, I won't block. > >But if you really want a "download" entry in the menu... would it be okay >if it just redirected to the "releases" page? I'll do that for now. > >- if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect >> rules not to break URLs >> > >I already did. Redirects don't seem to work locally for some reason, >though. They work on staging. > > >> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you >> proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series >> > >Steve found "latest releases" "confusing" (if I understood correctly). I >changed it to "Series" as you suggested. > > >> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each individual >> series page. >> > >Done. > > >> - the matrix does not scale very well to that many versions. >> > >Could you be more specific? Is it that you're having trouble finding out >which cell relates to which HSearch version, or which cell relates to which >dependency, or about the size of columns not being the same, or... ? I'd >rather know exactly what's wrong before trying to mess with the CSS, >because solutions to each of these problems will probably require to use >more horizontal space, and as you can see we don't have that much available. It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version, should I scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically with version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit. It does not work well on phones either. > > >> - in the dedicated series page, "Reference" is confusing, I'd probably >> replace it with documentation or main documentation > > >Done. > >Since there seems to be a general agreement that it's not worse than it >used to be, I'll send a PR soon. We can continue the discussion there. > > > >Yoann Rodière >Hibernate NoORM Team >yo...@hibernate.org > >On 11 September 2017 at 15:54, Emmanuel Bernard <emman...@hibernate.org> >wrote: > >> Hey Yoann and all, >> >> Thanks Yoann for stepping up. This is definitely much better. >> Here are non ordered comments: >> >> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X >> is a question we want addressed from the top level menus >> - if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect >> rules not to break URLs >> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you >> proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series >> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each individual >> series page. >> - the matrix does not scale very well to that many versions. >> - in the dedicated series page, "Reference" is confusing, I'd probably >> replace it with documentation or main documentation >> >> Emmanuel >> >> On Fri 17-09-08 14:53, Yoann Rodiere wrote: >> >>> Hey, >>> >>> I pushed an update to staging. I only converted the "Search" part for now. >>> What changes: >>> >>> - The _data folder structured changed a bit, so that we can introduces a >>> YAML file for each series (5.5, 5.6, 5.6, 5.8, ...), containing a >>> summary >>> of this series and a list of integration constraints (ORM > 5.2, etc.) >>> - The "Downloads" page is renamed to "Releases", since, well, it's about >>> more than just downloads. See >>> http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/ >>> - The "Releases" page now includes a "Compatibilty matrix" section based >>> on the new data I mentioned above >>> - The "Releases" page now includes links to one page for each series >>> ("More on the 5.8 series") >>> - There is now one page for each series (see >>> http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/series/5.8/). This page >>> includes: >>> - A short (one-line) summary of this series >>> - A reminder of the integration constraints for this series >>> - A section about the main changes in this release. I only wrote >>> something for the 5.8 series for now, and I basically >>> copy/pasted sections >>> from various blog posts. >>> - A list of all releases in this series. >>> >>> What I didn't do, but could make sense: >>> >>> - add a sub-menu element under "Releases" for each series >>> - link to the documentation for each of the latest releases from the >>> "Releases" page >>> - link to the latest documentation and to the migration guides from each >>> series' page >>> >>> What do you all think? Emmanuel, would this address your concerns? Steve, >>> would this be a good fit for ORM? >>> >>> Yoann Rodière >>> Hibernate NoORM Team >>> yo...@hibernate.org >>> >>> On 6 September 2017 at 17:16, Steve Ebersole <st...@hibernate.org> wrote: >>> >>> This is something I brought up ages ago wrt ORM. I wanted something >>>> (although ideally integrated with the "more version friendly" >>>> hibernate.org design) similar to what I did atm on the ORM GitHub wiki. >>>> For example, for 5.2 we have: >>>> >>>> >>>> - https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Roadmap5.2 >>>> - https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Migration-Gu >>>> ide---5.2 >>>> - https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/ReleaseNotes5.2 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The format could be better and some of this information could be combined >>>> (release notes and migration guide e.g.). But bear in mind that this was >>>> just what I put together to illustrate what I was wanted to do, generally >>>> speaking - so its a bit "rough" >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:17 AM Sanne Grinovero <sa...@hibernate.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks for that Emmanuel. >>>>> >>>>> I'll fix the one-liner describing the release, I believe we had >>>>> already noticed this in the past: they need to describe the whole >>>>> minor not the micro update. >>>>> The Search roadmap actually also needs a little re-touch, I'll propose >>>>> a PR for that too. >>>>> >>>>> Regarding past roadmaps: I don't like to clutter the roadmap page with >>>>> the previous copies, especially as they should have a different nature >>>>> of not being a plan but being a record of what was actually done. >>>>> Also, we did agree in past meetings to remove all the old ones. e.g. >>>>> we never ported the release notes for version 3.x and 4.x as back then >>>>> we decided this was no place for that. Happy to revisit this decision >>>>> but let's separate them: >>>>> >>>>> What about a "past releases" page at the same level of roadmap, and >>>>> linking to it both from the main Search menu and the roadmap? >>>>> >>>>> +1 for Yoann's proposal to re-introduce the compatibility matrix >>>>> (there was one ~6 years ago). I also had proposed to reintroduce it >>>>> more recently, and was not done on the grounds that it gets out of >>>>> date quickly. >>>>> Still users badly need it so unless someone has a better idea, let's >>>>> agree on trying to keep it up to date manually. Let's try structure it >>>>> in such a way that it won't need to be updated for every single >>>>> release. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Sanne >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 6 September 2017 at 08:37, Yoann Rodiere <yo...@hibernate.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > Hey, >>>>> > >>>>> > About Search, true, the information is somewhat hidden in many blog >>>>> posts. >>>>> > I'm not sure the roadmap is the right place, though, since we probably >>>>> want >>>>> > the format to be different for past and future releases: information >>>>> for >>>>> > past releases is typically more precise and more verbose, with code >>>>> > examples and so on. See for instance this blog post: >>>>> http://in.relation.to/ >>>>> > 2017/06/13/hibernate-search-5-8-0-Beta3/ . I'm afraid the future >>>>> roadmap >>>>> > would be drowned in the past releases. >>>>> > >>>>> > I was thinking about another problem: we don't have a compatibility >>>>> matrix. >>>>> > We only have a few dependencies (mainly ORM and Lucene), but it's >>>>> really >>>>> > hard to know which versions of the dependencies to use with which >>>>> version >>>>> > of Search, and users frequently use the wrong versions. >>>>> > With that in mind, I would rather see a "Versions" page, with a >>>>> summary >>>>> at >>>>> > the top (including a one-liner for each minor and the compatibilty >>>>> matrix), >>>>> > and one section for each minor (with anchors, so that we can link to >>>>> them >>>>> > from other pages such as the downloads). Or maybe even one page for >>>>> the >>>>> > detail of each minor, if there's too much text. >>>>> > I think it would make sense to have all that information gathered in a >>>>> > single place, because all of that is needed for users to pick the >>>>> version >>>>> > they want: they need to know the benefits of upgrading (features) but >>>>> also >>>>> > the constraints (compatibility matrix). >>>>> > Maybe I can give it a try at the end of the week? >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > Yoann Rodière >>>>> > Hibernate NoORM Team >>>>> > yo...@hibernate.org >>>>> > >>>>> > On 6 September 2017 at 09:21, Emmanuel Bernard < >>>>> emman...@hibernate.org> >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> >> Hey all, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I was trying to answer the following question, what is roughly new >>>>> between >>>>> >> 5.6, 5.7 and 5.8 (minor releases)? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> My first reflex was to go to http://hibernate.org/search/downloads/ >>>>> < >>>>> >> http://hibernate.org/search/downloads/> to read about the onliner >>>>> per >>>>> >> release. Except it’s a onliner per micro release and “minor >>>>> adjustments” >>>>> >> for 5.6.3.Final gave me literally no info whatsoever. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> My second reflex was to go to http://hibernate.org/search/roadmap/ < >>>>> >> http://hibernate.org/search/roadmap/> to find a historical entry >>>>> about >>>>> >> older versions and the main changes in bullet points. No luck. It >>>>> only >>>>> >> talks about the future. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> My third reflex was to go to http://in.relation.to/hibernate-search/ >>>>> < >>>>> >> http://in.relation.to/hibernate-search/> I ended up giving up midway >>>>> page >>>>> >> 2 of the list of blog entries. It’s a mix of simultaneous parallel >>>>> releases >>>>> >> with what’s new since the last CR or the last micro kind of reports >>>>> and >>>>> >> gave up in dismay at the energy I would have to spend to extract >>>>> what’s new >>>>> >> for a full minor release. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I did exaggerate a bit the third point but I did give up. We need >>>>> >> somewhere a summary page of what’s new per minor releases. I think >>>>> the >>>>> >> roadmap page could be the host. >>>>> >> Likewise, we might need a oneliner entry in the download section (per >>>>> >> release) that points to this minor release summary. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Thoughts? >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Speaking of roadmap: >>>>> >> - HV roadmap is massively out of date >>>>> >> - OGM is lying a bit on the future but at least has the past summary >>>>> I >>>>> was >>>>> >> talking about >>>>> >> - Search has a good future roadmap but no past >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Emmanuek >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list >>>>> >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org >>>>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > hibernate-dev mailing list >>>>> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org >>>>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> hibernate-dev mailing list >>>>> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org >>>>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
