Re: [go-nuts] Re: [RFC] Yet another proposal for Go2 error handling

[Jan]

Thanks for the clarification Robert.

In many cases, when building ML models, panicking is fine. But in some, it 
is not, specially if running some type of server, that will handle 
different models, or with various shapes of inputs (e.g. images in 
different sizes and formats, some may lead to unexpected invalid 
combinations, that cannot crash a server).

Now using a DSL and go generate seems not ergonomic ? I understand it 
wouldn't play well with IDEs (auto-complete, info about the parameters of 
function one is calling, etc.), and other various checks we get for 
granted. Or am I missing something? Care to give a small example of what 
you envision ? 

Notice these math functions are inter-spaced with normal Go code. Some 
recent example code here 

 (an 
example diffusion model, that generates flower images 
)
  for 
those curious.


On Monday, June 19, 2023 at 6:36:28 AM UTC+2 Robert Engels wrote:

> What I was suggesting was a far narrower scope. I can see how go’s error 
> handling makes writing composable math functions more difficult (although I 
> would think these would panic not return an error - so then it is trivial). 
>
> If they do need to return errors then using a DSL for the equations and go 
> generate you don’t really care how much boilerplate code there is - you 
> don’t read or edit it. 
>
> On Jun 18, 2023, at 3:10 PM, Jan Pfeifer  wrote:
>
> 
>
> A DSL + code generator is a longer discussion. But I'm not sure I'm 
> getting the scope of your suggestion right:
>
> If you refer to having a full ML language DSL and a 
> generator/AOT(ahead-of-time) compiler: folks have tried it before -- see 
> the Swift ML effort by Chris Lattner, now leading Mojo in Modular AI. I 
> don't know the detailed story there, but I thought hard about this (having 
> a separate ML language and generator) before I started the GoMLX project. 
> But from what I can imagine some of the shapes (and hyperparameters) that 
> need checking often are only known at runtime. Also for development and 
> debugging it complicates things: it's super nice to have a full language 
> (Go) in parallel to constructing the graph. 
>
> If you are referring to a DSL and code generator for error handling only: 
> I'm not sure it would work well because it requires an extra step when 
> developing ... it is just not as convenient / portable -- for instance for 
> IDEs; also I'm often coding in a Jupyter Notebook using GoNB 
> , which would also need 
> modifications. Better if there was some form of support for the language. 
> I'm hoping some error handling proposal would cover this use case.
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 18, 2023 at 5:11 PM Robert Engels  
> wrote:
>
>> Seems  the easiest way to address that is with a DSL and a code 
>> generator. 
>>
>> On Jun 18, 2023, at 9:47 AM, Jan Pfeifer  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> hi Shulhan, I see your points, thanks for the reply. Let me comment on 
>> them below:
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 17, 2023 at 9:21 AM Shulhan  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jan, thanks for response.
>>>
>>> On Mon, 5 Jun 2023 01:06:37 -0700 (PDT)
>>> Jan  wrote:
>>>
>>> > Repeating Justin's consideration: one of my (and from colleagues I
>>> > discuss the topic with) major issues with current error handling is
>>> > the repetition of identical code. Your proposal still requires `when
>>> > err handle ...` at every statement.
>>>
>>> Yes, correct.
>>> The idea is not to minimise repetition on error handling statement, the
>>> "if err != nil", but to minimise repetitive error handling body by
>>> grouping it into single handle based on the context of error.
>>>
>>
>> Oh, I see. I have to say I wish one didn't need to do the `if err != nil` 
>> all the time either, when the handling is the same :) But if that is your 
>> proposal it makes sense.
>>
>> > It also doesn't allow for nested
>>> > call of functions that return errors -- e.g: `f(g(h(x)))`, where `h`,
>>> > `g`, and `f` can return errors (all presumably handled the same way).
>>> > 
>>>
>>> I am not sure I understand this, but should not each function handle it
>>> on its own?
>>> Or should not `f` being called if `g` return an error?
>>> If its later, yes, it does not allow for nested handling of error.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry I was not clear. What I mean is, with current error handling would 
>> be written like:
>>
>> hValue, err := h(x)
>> if err != nil {...}
>> gValue, err := g(hValue)
>> if err != nil {...}
>> fValue, err := f(gValue)
>> if err != nil {...}
>>
>> Where all of the `if err` are identical.
>>
>> Let me provide a more concrete example: I'm working on an ML framework (
>> github.com/gomlx/gomlx), and I'm writing computational graphs (that get 
>> just-in-time compiled for speed/GPU support) like:
>>
>> func EuclideanDistance(x, y *Node) *Node {
>>return Sqrt(

Re: [go-nuts] Please consider voting to reopen Golang subreddit

['drc...@google.com' via golang-nuts]

Have you considered moving to another platform, either Lemmy or Kbin?
(He says, not having completed his own move of the benchmarking bot to 
botsin.space).
On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 1:51:10 PM UTC-4 Robert Engels wrote:

> I’m fairly certain Reddit will license those tools for moderators use. 
> That is not what they are trying to prevent. 
>
> > On Jun 24, 2023, at 8:39 AM, Wojciech S. Czarnecki  
> wrote:
> > 
> > Dnia 2023-06-23, o godz. 23:50:32
> > Amnon  napisał(a):
> > 
> >> Sorry, but I have been away and missed the context.
> > 
> >> What is the protest about?
> > 
> > Reddit's decision to sink all good free tools that allow people (mods) 
> to work several hours per day
> > keeping their communities free of propaganda and scams.
> > 
> >> 
> >> What has redit changed?
> > 
> > APIs that were free to access by third parties will be priced as gold.
> > 
> >> Thanks
> > yw.
> > 
> > P.S.
> > It is worth mentioning that Reddit *has* a good reason to close APIs 
> that are abused by A"I" businesses.
> > Just there is no will to make such changes robust, IMO, as it would 
> cost. It seems to me that current Reddit's
> > brass has no faintest idea how many $millions monthly mod's work is 
> worth.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Wojciech S. Czarnecki
> > << ^oo^ >> OHIR-RIPE
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "golang-nuts" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to golang-nuts...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/20230624153919.43160eba%40xmint
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"golang-nuts" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/479f9d06-a8ee-4a06-9a02-82ff14c9c767n%40googlegroups.com.

[go-nuts] Interface() method of reflect.Value sometimes allocates, sometimes not

[christoph...@gmail.com]

I'm implementing a value encoder similar to gob. While bench-marking my 
code against gob, I noticed some unexpected memory allocations with a 
particular type of data.

See this minimal code example in the go playground 
https://go.dev/play/p/4rm-kCtD274

There is a simple function foo() receiving a []uint reflect.Value as input. 
It calls the Interface() method to get back a []uint value that it can then 
use. 

When the input value is a []uint, the Interface() method doesn't allocate. 

When the input value is a []uint of a [][]uint (a matrix), the Interface() 
method allocates the slice header on the heap. 

I was wondering if this is just a limitation of optimization or if there 
was a constrain imposing the allocation.

In my code and gob's code (see the helpers functions in enc_helpers.go) the 
slice returned by Interface() is only used locally. 


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"golang-nuts" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/526f41b9-c4dc-41ea-a86e-8f665c5b18b0n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [go-nuts] Please consider voting to reopen Golang subreddit

[Eltjon Metko]

Protests like this (temporary) never make sense, they only create 
inconvinience for users while reddit will just have to ride it out. See 
tens of others more important (for reddit) subredits who have already 
opened. So either open it or declare that it will be closed permanetly and 
moved somewhere else. (the result of this last one, again like in other 
subredits will be that Admins will override and reopen the space, removing 
all mods, the community will be splitted).   
This is a commercial dispute nothing more and everyone that acts like a 
crusader in this case is simply in a power trip. 

On Monday, June 26, 2023 at 5:01:29 PM UTC+2 drc...@google.com wrote:

> Have you considered moving to another platform, either Lemmy or Kbin?
> (He says, not having completed his own move of the benchmarking bot to 
> botsin.space).
> On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 1:51:10 PM UTC-4 Robert Engels wrote:
>
>> I’m fairly certain Reddit will license those tools for moderators use. 
>> That is not what they are trying to prevent. 
>>
>> > On Jun 24, 2023, at 8:39 AM, Wojciech S. Czarnecki  
>> wrote: 
>> > 
>> > Dnia 2023-06-23, o godz. 23:50:32 
>> > Amnon  napisał(a): 
>> > 
>> >> Sorry, but I have been away and missed the context. 
>> > 
>> >> What is the protest about? 
>> > 
>> > Reddit's decision to sink all good free tools that allow people (mods) 
>> to work several hours per day 
>> > keeping their communities free of propaganda and scams. 
>> > 
>> >> 
>> >> What has redit changed? 
>> > 
>> > APIs that were free to access by third parties will be priced as gold. 
>> > 
>> >> Thanks 
>> > yw. 
>> > 
>> > P.S. 
>> > It is worth mentioning that Reddit *has* a good reason to close APIs 
>> that are abused by A"I" businesses. 
>> > Just there is no will to make such changes robust, IMO, as it would 
>> cost. It seems to me that current Reddit's 
>> > brass has no faintest idea how many $millions monthly mod's work is 
>> worth. 
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > Wojciech S. Czarnecki 
>> > << ^oo^ >> OHIR-RIPE 
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "golang-nuts" group. 
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to golang-nuts...@googlegroups.com. 
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/20230624153919.43160eba%40xmint.
>>  
>>
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"golang-nuts" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/b45472ed-b150-4752-bc5b-7158e152dafan%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [go-nuts] Please consider voting to reopen Golang subreddit

['Thomas Bushnell BSG' via golang-nuts]

I mean, this is mostly true, except that the protesters do have the right
to administer the subreddit in the way they choose, as long as they are the
admins.

As you said, if you don't like that, you are of course free to use a
different site. But it seems a bit off-kilter to say "if you don't like it,
vote with your feet", while complaining about the actions some other users
of the site have taken, and not voting with your feet.

Thomas


On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 4:29 AM Jan Mercl <0xj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 10:18 AM Axel Wagner
>  wrote:
>
> > Just for context, as not everyone seems to be aware: I was, in that
> sentence you quoted, referring to examples like this
> >
> https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14eq8ip/the_entire_rmildlyinteresting_mod_team_has_just/
> > This demonstrates that even with overwhelming support from the community
> (and yes, in this example the modifier applies), the company overwrites
> those wishes to shut down protest. There are a couple of other subreddits
> with similar stories.
> >
> > So I was making the case to *provide* overwhelming support for the mods
> of /r/golang, referring to precedent of other subreddits where that is
> happening. Not claiming that they already have it.
>
> Thanks for the added conext.
>
> Anyone not liking Reddit is free to not visit the site. Anyone not
> accepting the price for the API access is free to not buy it. It's
> fine to vote by your visits and by your wallet. That's how the free
> market works and it works well unless there's some monopoly. But
> Reddit has no monopoly.
>
> Protesters are free to protest. That's their respected right.
> Protesters have no right to deny access to other users. That's my
> right and I expect it to be equally respected.
>
> PS: I'm paying $7/month to Reddit to have r/golang ad-free. May I ask
> you for a refund? Thanks for your consideration.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "golang-nuts" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/CAA40n-UU-fvBis8XZuOobK_6wW44iOddAzni1KRF9udHH-ELtg%40mail.gmail.com
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"golang-nuts" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/CA%2BYjuxsAktj0Pk2odDnxMUArcaeLYzCvtmS09ZdJdL27p9eN4Q%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [go-nuts] Interface() method of reflect.Value sometimes allocates, sometimes not

[Ian Lance Taylor]

On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 8:28 AM christoph...@gmail.com
 wrote:
>
> I'm implementing a value encoder similar to gob. While bench-marking my code 
> against gob, I noticed some unexpected memory allocations with a particular 
> type of data.
>
> See this minimal code example in the go playground 
> https://go.dev/play/p/4rm-kCtD274
>
> There is a simple function foo() receiving a []uint reflect.Value as input. 
> It calls the Interface() method to get back a []uint value that it can then 
> use.
>
> When the input value is a []uint, the Interface() method doesn't allocate.
>
> When the input value is a []uint of a [][]uint (a matrix), the Interface() 
> method allocates the slice header on the heap.
>
> I was wondering if this is just a limitation of optimization or if there was 
> a constrain imposing the allocation.
>
> In my code and gob's code (see the helpers functions in enc_helpers.go) the 
> slice returned by Interface() is only used locally.

The key difference here is not the type, it's that in the latter case
the reflect.Value is addressable.  That is, the CanAddr method will
report true.  In that case the reflect package returns a new copy of
the value.  Otherwise it would be possible for the value in the
returned interface to be changed via the reflect.Value, which is not
how interface types work.

Ian

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"golang-nuts" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/CAOyqgcUGgxCuY_nGda0bZoRHP3rLbNbPYM8qzLhhBnL1MHf_zg%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [go-nuts] Please consider voting to reopen Golang subreddit

['drc...@google.com' via golang-nuts]

"Vote with YOUR feet, not MY feet".

On Monday, June 26, 2023 at 12:56:12 PM UTC-4 Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:

> I mean, this is mostly true, except that the protesters do have the right 
> to administer the subreddit in the way they choose, as long as they are the 
> admins.
>
> As you said, if you don't like that, you are of course free to use a 
> different site. But it seems a bit off-kilter to say "if you don't like it, 
> vote with your feet", while complaining about the actions some other users 
> of the site have taken, and not voting with your feet.
>
> Thomas
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 4:29 AM Jan Mercl <0xj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 10:18 AM Axel Wagner
>>  wrote:
>>
>> > Just for context, as not everyone seems to be aware: I was, in that 
>> sentence you quoted, referring to examples like this
>> > 
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14eq8ip/the_entire_rmildlyinteresting_mod_team_has_just/
>> > This demonstrates that even with overwhelming support from the 
>> community (and yes, in this example the modifier applies), the company 
>> overwrites those wishes to shut down protest. There are a couple of other 
>> subreddits with similar stories.
>> >
>> > So I was making the case to *provide* overwhelming support for the mods 
>> of /r/golang, referring to precedent of other subreddits where that is 
>> happening. Not claiming that they already have it.
>>
>> Thanks for the added conext.
>>
>> Anyone not liking Reddit is free to not visit the site. Anyone not
>> accepting the price for the API access is free to not buy it. It's
>> fine to vote by your visits and by your wallet. That's how the free
>> market works and it works well unless there's some monopoly. But
>> Reddit has no monopoly.
>>
>> Protesters are free to protest. That's their respected right.
>> Protesters have no right to deny access to other users. That's my
>> right and I expect it to be equally respected.
>>
>> PS: I'm paying $7/month to Reddit to have r/golang ad-free. May I ask
>> you for a refund? Thanks for your consideration.
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "golang-nuts" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to golang-nuts...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/CAA40n-UU-fvBis8XZuOobK_6wW44iOddAzni1KRF9udHH-ELtg%40mail.gmail.com
>> .
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"golang-nuts" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/0e948ef0-f715-40d5-acec-aadbdbaa47d9n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [go-nuts] Please consider voting to reopen Golang subreddit

['Axel Wagner' via golang-nuts]

On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 6:53 PM Eltjon Metko  wrote:

> Protests like this (temporary) never make sense, they only create
> inconvinience for users while reddit will just have to ride it out.


Note that the common hypothesis is that there is a reason reddit is so
urgently pushing through the API charges, why they are urgently trying to
shut off the protest and why they are *particularly* urgent about shutting
down the protest of setting subreddits to NSFW: That they consider doing an
IPO in the near future. In that case, they can't really "ride it out". They
are likely pretty heavily interested in looking good to investors *right
now*.


> This is a commercial dispute nothing more and everyone that acts like a
> crusader in this case is simply in a power trip.
>

I find this a strange stance, given that most of the people actually
participating in the protest are unpaid volunteers. So I don't see how that
can be considered a "commercial dispute", to be honest.


>
> On Monday, June 26, 2023 at 5:01:29 PM UTC+2 drc...@google.com wrote:
>
>> Have you considered moving to another platform, either Lemmy or Kbin?
>> (He says, not having completed his own move of the benchmarking bot to
>> botsin.space).
>> On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 1:51:10 PM UTC-4 Robert Engels wrote:
>>
>>> I’m fairly certain Reddit will license those tools for moderators use.
>>> That is not what they are trying to prevent.
>>>
>>> > On Jun 24, 2023, at 8:39 AM, Wojciech S. Czarnecki 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Dnia 2023-06-23, o godz. 23:50:32
>>> > Amnon  napisał(a):
>>> >
>>> >> Sorry, but I have been away and missed the context.
>>> >
>>> >> What is the protest about?
>>> >
>>> > Reddit's decision to sink all good free tools that allow people (mods)
>>> to work several hours per day
>>> > keeping their communities free of propaganda and scams.
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> What has redit changed?
>>> >
>>> > APIs that were free to access by third parties will be priced as gold.
>>> >
>>> >> Thanks
>>> > yw.
>>> >
>>> > P.S.
>>> > It is worth mentioning that Reddit *has* a good reason to close APIs
>>> that are abused by A"I" businesses.
>>> > Just there is no will to make such changes robust, IMO, as it would
>>> cost. It seems to me that current Reddit's
>>> > brass has no faintest idea how many $millions monthly mod's work is
>>> worth.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Wojciech S. Czarnecki
>>> > << ^oo^ >> OHIR-RIPE
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "golang-nuts" group.
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to golang-nuts...@googlegroups.com.
>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/20230624153919.43160eba%40xmint.
>>>
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "golang-nuts" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/b45472ed-b150-4752-bc5b-7158e152dafan%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"golang-nuts" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/CAEkBMfGN3qNUw4t3p%3DmdYWy6FyrQmqkcXOnP5pN0uG3qkEseZQ%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [go-nuts] Please consider voting to reopen Golang subreddit

[Eltjon Metko]

> I find this a strange stance, given that most of the people actually 
participating in the protest are unpaid volunteers. So I don't see how that 
can be considered a "commercial dispute", to be honest.

The commercial dispute is between Reddit and API Consumers. it has nothing 
to do with mods or the users. No-mater how certain you may be who is in the 
right and who is in the wrong, the most certain thing here is that there is 
great part of the commuinty who are being held hostage and used as tool for 
commercial disupute that has nothing to do with them or this subredit. To 
be clear I am not accusing the mods of Golang subredit for being in a 
powertrip (because initally it did not come from them) but other users who 
try to force their narrow worldview onto others. If this was an ethics 
issue, depnding on how clear it is there might be ground for protests, 
commercial disputes should never be ground for holding even a fraction of 
the users hostage. 
On Monday, June 26, 2023 at 10:43:36 PM UTC+2 Axel Wagner wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 6:53 PM Eltjon Metko  wrote:
>
>> Protests like this (temporary) never make sense, they only create 
>> inconvinience for users while reddit will just have to ride it out.
>
>
> Note that the common hypothesis is that there is a reason reddit is so 
> urgently pushing through the API charges, why they are urgently trying to 
> shut off the protest and why they are *particularly* urgent about shutting 
> down the protest of setting subreddits to NSFW: That they consider doing an 
> IPO in the near future. In that case, they can't really "ride it out". They 
> are likely pretty heavily interested in looking good to investors *right 
> now*.
>  
>
>> This is a commercial dispute nothing more and everyone that acts like a 
>> crusader in this case is simply in a power trip. 
>>
>
> I find this a strange stance, given that most of the people actually 
> participating in the protest are unpaid volunteers. So I don't see how that 
> can be considered a "commercial dispute", to be honest.
>  
>
>>
>> On Monday, June 26, 2023 at 5:01:29 PM UTC+2 drc...@google.com wrote:
>>
>>> Have you considered moving to another platform, either Lemmy or Kbin?
>>> (He says, not having completed his own move of the benchmarking bot to 
>>> botsin.space).
>>> On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 1:51:10 PM UTC-4 Robert Engels wrote:
>>>
 I’m fairly certain Reddit will license those tools for moderators use. 
 That is not what they are trying to prevent. 

 > On Jun 24, 2023, at 8:39 AM, Wojciech S. Czarnecki  
 wrote: 
 > 
 > Dnia 2023-06-23, o godz. 23:50:32 
 > Amnon  napisał(a): 
 > 
 >> Sorry, but I have been away and missed the context. 
 > 
 >> What is the protest about? 
 > 
 > Reddit's decision to sink all good free tools that allow people 
 (mods) to work several hours per day 
 > keeping their communities free of propaganda and scams. 
 > 
 >> 
 >> What has redit changed? 
 > 
 > APIs that were free to access by third parties will be priced as 
 gold. 
 > 
 >> Thanks 
 > yw. 
 > 
 > P.S. 
 > It is worth mentioning that Reddit *has* a good reason to close APIs 
 that are abused by A"I" businesses. 
 > Just there is no will to make such changes robust, IMO, as it would 
 cost. It seems to me that current Reddit's 
 > brass has no faintest idea how many $millions monthly mod's work is 
 worth. 
 > 
 > -- 
 > Wojciech S. Czarnecki 
 > << ^oo^ >> OHIR-RIPE 
 > 
 > -- 
 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "golang-nuts" group. 
 > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
 send an email to golang-nuts...@googlegroups.com. 
 > To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/20230624153919.43160eba%40xmint.
  


>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "golang-nuts" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to golang-nuts...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/b45472ed-b150-4752-bc5b-7158e152dafan%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"golang-nuts" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/4f9951e1-93c5-4d3e-a56e-f1444a1896dbn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [go-nuts] Please consider voting to reopen Golang subreddit

['Axel Wagner' via golang-nuts]

On Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 12:10 AM Eltjon Metko  wrote:

> The commercial dispute is between Reddit and API Consumers. it has nothing
> to do with mods or the users.
>

Then why are the mods and users protesting?


> No-mater how certain you may be who is in the right and who is in the
> wrong, the most certain thing here is that there is great part of the
> commuinty who are being held hostage
>

The mods of /r/golang making their decision based on a vote. This hyperbole
seems uncalled for.



> and used as tool for commercial disupute that has nothing to do with them
> or this subredit. To be clear I am not accusing the mods of Golang subredit
> for being in a powertrip (because initally it did not come from them) but
> other users who try to force their narrow worldview onto others. If this
> was an ethics issue, depnding on how clear it is there might be ground for
> protests, commercial disputes should never be ground for holding even a
> fraction of the users hostage.
> On Monday, June 26, 2023 at 10:43:36 PM UTC+2 Axel Wagner wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jun 26, 2023 at 6:53 PM Eltjon Metko  wrote:
>>
>>> Protests like this (temporary) never make sense, they only create
>>> inconvinience for users while reddit will just have to ride it out.
>>
>>
>> Note that the common hypothesis is that there is a reason reddit is so
>> urgently pushing through the API charges, why they are urgently trying to
>> shut off the protest and why they are *particularly* urgent about shutting
>> down the protest of setting subreddits to NSFW: That they consider doing an
>> IPO in the near future. In that case, they can't really "ride it out". They
>> are likely pretty heavily interested in looking good to investors *right
>> now*.
>>
>>
>>> This is a commercial dispute nothing more and everyone that acts like a
>>> crusader in this case is simply in a power trip.
>>>
>>
>> I find this a strange stance, given that most of the people actually
>> participating in the protest are unpaid volunteers. So I don't see how that
>> can be considered a "commercial dispute", to be honest.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, June 26, 2023 at 5:01:29 PM UTC+2 drc...@google.com wrote:
>>>
 Have you considered moving to another platform, either Lemmy or Kbin?
 (He says, not having completed his own move of the benchmarking bot to
 botsin.space).
 On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 1:51:10 PM UTC-4 Robert Engels wrote:

> I’m fairly certain Reddit will license those tools for moderators use.
> That is not what they are trying to prevent.
>
> > On Jun 24, 2023, at 8:39 AM, Wojciech S. Czarnecki 
> wrote:
> >
> > Dnia 2023-06-23, o godz. 23:50:32
> > Amnon  napisał(a):
> >
> >> Sorry, but I have been away and missed the context.
> >
> >> What is the protest about?
> >
> > Reddit's decision to sink all good free tools that allow people
> (mods) to work several hours per day
> > keeping their communities free of propaganda and scams.
> >
> >>
> >> What has redit changed?
> >
> > APIs that were free to access by third parties will be priced as
> gold.
> >
> >> Thanks
> > yw.
> >
> > P.S.
> > It is worth mentioning that Reddit *has* a good reason to close APIs
> that are abused by A"I" businesses.
> > Just there is no will to make such changes robust, IMO, as it would
> cost. It seems to me that current Reddit's
> > brass has no faintest idea how many $millions monthly mod's work is
> worth.
> >
> > --
> > Wojciech S. Czarnecki
> > << ^oo^ >> OHIR-RIPE
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "golang-nuts" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send an email to golang-nuts...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/20230624153919.43160eba%40xmint.
>
>
 --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "golang-nuts" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to golang-nuts...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/b45472ed-b150-4752-bc5b-7158e152dafan%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "golang-nuts" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/4f9951e1-93c5-4d3e-a56e-f1444a1896dbn%40googlegroups.com
>