Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

[Patrick James via gnucash-user]

If I found something of value that was included in a past transaction, such as 
that nice William Woodard artwork in the attic, then I'd adjust the description 
of what was purchased as 1 house and a couple of paintings. Other than the 
memo, as appropriate, I would not make a journal entry to equity today. 
Following the historic costing principle, my equity position has not changed, 
as I have not sold or purchased anything today. If anything, I did not divide 
the purchase between the real estate and artwork, so my book value of the house 
is over-stated and my book value of the artwork is under-stated. Maybe I create 
an artwork account and divide the book value between the real estate and 
artwork. If we're a few accounting periods later, the adjustment could start to 
get complicated if there was depreciation expense, as the real estate 
depreciation expense was too high as it included the value of the artwork.

The above is all about historic costing.

If I'm marking my property to market, which is probably difficult with houses 
and paintings, then, well, there would likely be some change in my equity upon 
today's entry of the value of the artwork.


> On 11/10/2024 2:27 PM PST Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user 
>  wrote:
> 
> You bought your house a few years ago, but until now, never got around 
> to clearing all of the junk out of the attic. Among that junk you find a 
> couple of paintings, and gee, William Woodard. So not a fortune, but you 
> are probably going to want to add an asset category "art" and put these 
> there at a reasonable estimate of what they might go for (and don't 
> forget to contact your property insurance carrier.
> 
> Now this "find" is NOT income. The pictures became your property when 
> you bought the house and they had been left there (and so included). The 
> transaction where you enter their asset estimated value would have 
> equity as the other side.
> 
> Michael D Novack
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Re: [GNC] Windows 11 Reports Blank

[Keith W Jones]

No luck so far and I can find no further reports.

Is it something to do with Internet Explorer, I have managed to get it 
installed on Windows 11.


Trace Report:

* 08:53:43 ERROR  [webkit_resource_load_error()] WebKit load 
of resource 
file:///C:/Users/KEITHW~1/AppData/Local/Temp/gnc-report-XO3JX2.html, 
type (NULL), failed due to Frame load was interrupted


* 08:53:43 ERROR  [webkit_on_load_error()] WebKit load of 
file:///C:/Users/KEITHW~1/AppData/Local/Temp/gnc-report-XO3JX2.html 
failed due to Frame load was interrupted


* 08:53:54 ERROR  [webkit_resource_load_error()] WebKit load 
of resource 
file:///C:/Users/KEITHW~1/AppData/Local/Temp/gnc-report-5ZV0W2.html, 
type (NULL), failed due to Frame load was interrupted


* 08:53:54 ERROR  [webkit_on_load_error()] WebKit load of 
file:///C:/Users/KEITHW~1/AppData/Local/Temp/gnc-report-5ZV0W2.html 
failed due to Frame load was interrupted


Keith



 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Windows 11 Reports Blank
Date:   Thu, 7 Nov 2024 10:20:20 +
From:   Keith W Jones 
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org



Gnucash Version 5.9 Build ID 5.9+(2024-09-28)

Windows 11Version 24H2 (OS Build 26.100.216 1)

I have been using Gnucash for a long time with no real issues. Trying to 
print an invoice I found that it was blank. All reports are blank.


I have recently upgraded from Windows 10 to 11. My research has found no 
answer to this issue.


Keith
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[GNC] How to find what one can put in GnuCash configuration files?

[Chris Green]

I've found the wiki page that documents where GnuCash has its
configuration files and how you can change the locations:-

https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Configuration_Locations

However I can't find anywhere that documents what you can put in the
configuration files.  For example what can be put in the files which
are in $HOME/.config/gnucash (on Linux).

Also, while I'm here, is there no index or table of contents for the
wiki?  I found the above Configuration_Locations entry by doing a
general web search.  I'd expected there to be links from the
Configuration_Locations page to pages documenting what can be put into
the configuration files.


-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] Accounting of loan intended to be paid at the later date by non financial assets

[Jason Seegers]

This would largely depend on which GAAP you are following. You are quoting Rs 
which I assume means Rupees and therefore Indian GAAP, which I have zero 
knowledge of.

Under IFRS / US GAAP, you need to look at the substance of the transaction.

1. you have a loan
2. you are settling via an asset
3. finance costs need to be factored in at a market rate
4. you are not selling goods

Your scenario is complex and also has tax implications. I will provide a very 
brief explanation of accounting treatment only but you need to speak to your 
accountant. This is more of a support forum vs an accounting advice forum.

Dr bank and Cr loan upon receipt of funds

Dr interest (PL) and Cr loan based on a future value settlement calculation of 
the loan at a market related interest rate or weighted average cost of capital 
of your business. Future value appears to be Rs 1.15m per your message.

When you purchase the gold, recognise it as inventory raw material. During 
manufacture, it would be considered WIP. After manufacture complete, it would 
be considered finished goods. Cost to manufacture is capitalised to the cost of 
the asset.

Upon settlement of the loan, you would simply Dr loan and Cr finished goods 
with the agreed value. This does not go to revenue and cost of goods sold 
because the nature of the transaction is that you are settling a loan balance 
and should be treated the same way as you would a bank loan ie when you receive 
money from the bank, it isn’t income and when you repay via cash, you don’t 
recognise it as an expense.

Presumably your business is generating income which would be recognised as 
income and cost of goods sold. This is not part of that.

Interest expense is recognised in the PL for this loan.

As you can see, this is not simple and so you should speak to your accountant.

From: Jason Seegers 
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2024 10:11:48 AM
To: Paras Desai ; gnucash-user@gnucash.org 

Subject: Re: Accounting of loan intended to be paid at the later date by non 
financial assets

This would largely depend on which GAAP you are following. You are quoting Rs 
which I assume means Rupees and therefore Indian GAAP, which I have zero 
knowledge of.

Under IFRS / US GAAP, you need to look at the substance of the transaction.

1. you have a loan
2. you are settling via an asset
3. finance costs need to be factored in at a market rate
4. you are not selling goods

Your scenario is complex and also has tax implications. I will provide a very 
brief explanation of accounting treatment only but you need to speak to your 
accountant. This is more of a support forum vs an accounting advice forum.

Dr bank and Cr loan upon receipt of funds

Dr interest (PL) and Cr loan based on a future value settlement calculation of 
the loan at a market related interest rate or weighted average cost of capital 
of your business. Future value appears to be Rs 1.15m per your message.

When you purchase the gold, recognise it as inventory raw material. During 
manufacture, it would be considered WIP. After manufacture complete, it would 
be considered finished goods. Cost to manufacture is capitalised to the cost of 
the asset.

Upon settlement of the loan, you would simply Dr loan and Cr finished goods 
with the agreed value. This does not go to revenue and cost of goods sold 
because the nature of the transaction is that you are settling a loan balance 
and should be treated the same way as you would a bank loan ie when you receive 
money from the bank, it isn’t income and when you repay via cash, you don’t 
recognise it as an expense.

Presumably your business is generating income which would be recognised as 
income and cost of goods sold. This is not part of that.

Interest expense is recognised in the PL for this loan.

As you can see, this is not simple and so you should speak to your accountant.


From: gnucash-user  
on behalf of Paras Desai 
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2024 06:31
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
Subject: [GNC] Accounting of loan intended to be paid at the later date by non 
financial assets

Hello All,

I have a user case for which I seek advice for both accounting principle point 
of view as well for posting in GNUCASH.

I receive a loan of say Rs. 1 million in current day. With the condition that 
it will be paid back by non financial asset at the end of the 12  months, by 
way of say Rs. 1.15 million worth of gold jwelery. (valuation of jaellery 
comprises of cost of gold and cost of making and designing jewellery)

What would  be accounting treatment for this transaction, as an accounting 
principle and in gnucash.

I am thinking following in principle...

Dr bank (assets) :  1 million
Cr lender (liability) : 1 million

Cr lender ( liability) : 0.15 mill (interest)
Dr interest expense : 0.15 milllion

Dr  gold purchase (assets) : 0.95 mill
Dr jewelery mfg expense ; 0.05 mill
Cr bank (assets) : 1 mill

Cr Sale (to lender) : 1.1

Re: [GNC] Windows 11 Reports Blank

[Keith W Jones]

When I go to the Temp directory, I find the invoice in an HTML file 
which I can print to PDF. So the file is not going into the app.


For info there are 4 error reports, that is because I tried to print it 
twice. So each attempt to print gives 2 error messages.


On 10/11/2024 11:07, Keith W Jones wrote:


No luck so far and I can find no further reports.

Is it something to do with Internet Explorer, I have managed to get it 
installed on Windows 11.


Trace Report:

* 08:53:43 ERROR  [webkit_resource_load_error()] WebKit load 
of resource 
file:///C:/Users/KEITHW~1/AppData/Local/Temp/gnc-report-XO3JX2.html, 
type (NULL), failed due to Frame load was interrupted


* 08:53:43 ERROR  [webkit_on_load_error()] WebKit load of 
file:///C:/Users/KEITHW~1/AppData/Local/Temp/gnc-report-XO3JX2.html 
failed due to Frame load was interrupted


* 08:53:54 ERROR  [webkit_resource_load_error()] WebKit load 
of resource 
file:///C:/Users/KEITHW~1/AppData/Local/Temp/gnc-report-5ZV0W2.html, 
type (NULL), failed due to Frame load was interrupted


* 08:53:54 ERROR  [webkit_on_load_error()] WebKit load of 
file:///C:/Users/KEITHW~1/AppData/Local/Temp/gnc-report-5ZV0W2.html 
failed due to Frame load was interrupted


Keith



 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Windows 11 Reports Blank
Date:   Thu, 7 Nov 2024 10:20:20 +
From:   Keith W Jones 
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org



Gnucash Version 5.9 Build ID 5.9+(2024-09-28)

Windows 11Version 24H2 (OS Build 26.100.216 1)

I have been using Gnucash for a long time with no real issues. Trying 
to print an invoice I found that it was blank. All reports are blank.


I have recently upgraded from Windows 10 to 11. My research has found 
no answer to this issue.


Keith


--


   Keith
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Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

[Maria Inmaculada de la Torre]

Hello Chris,

If you are taking over from someone else's accounting work in the church
it would be better if you get a trial balance from them and set up a new
file in Gnucash following the structure they had set up previously. If you
need an Opening balance when you are creating the accounts there is a tab
where you can enter details about those opening balances
[image: image.png]
If you do not have a trial balance and only information about the items you
talked about in your email, first you need to create a Chart of Accounts
somehow and create some kind of simple Trial Balance that you can enter
into the program. Lets just say that you have a regular account, a building
society account for the building, there is still some money owed by people
or donors for this year's building contribution and you know the balance
that should be in that building fund, the trial balance should look
something like this (this is a very simplified example)
[image: image.png]
When the donors lodge the money into the Bank for the Building for those
1,000 still pending for the year plus other general donations (Unrestricted
funds), you would have something like this
[image: image.png]
General activities from the church would be financed by the Unrestricted
funds kept in the general bank account and the funds in the Building Fund
will be used solely for the aim of the fund (let's say repairs of the
building). If you need to do repairs for instance to the roof of
the building (if that is the intention of the fund) of for example 3,000,
you would do an entry like the one below
[image: image.png]
This is a very, very simplified example that might apply to your situation.
It might be a good idea to check the Gnucash documentation for more entries
and if you are a charitable organization maybe check with an accountant
that might provide better advice. Also noticed that it might be more
appropriate to call the Building fund a Reserve more than a Liability.
Proper advice from an accountant that has all the information would be the
best.

I hope this helps,

Thank you

Regards,


Inma de la Torre


On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 at 13:46, Chris Green  wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 12:31:26PM +, Chris Green wrote:
> > When opening a new set of accounts where does one put a liability that
> > exists when the accounts are started?
> >
> > I guess they are a sub-account of Liabilities but I'm not quite clear
> > where they transfer from/to and whether they should be +ve or -ve.
> >
> Going on from this where do liabilities accrued during the year go?
>
> This is for a church where money goes in and out of the bank account
> but some is destined for the 'building fund' which is kept in a
> separate (building society, interest bearing) account.
>
> So, at the start of the year some money is owing to the building fund
> so it's an 'opening liability', how is that entered? (That was my
> first question above)
>
> Then, during the year there is income to the bank account which is
> destined for the building fund.  So it is 'income' but also needs
> to be recorded as a liability as it's owed to the building fund. How
> do I enter this?
>
> --
> Chris Green
> ___
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Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

[Murugan Mariappan]

All opening balances should be mapped to equity account

Same way you can create new loans for building and map the entry to equity





Saludos Cordiales


Murugan


From: gnucash-user 
 on behalf of 
Chris Green 
Sent: 10 November 2024 10:44
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
Subject: Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 12:31:26PM +, Chris Green wrote:
> When opening a new set of accounts where does one put a liability that
> exists when the accounts are started?
>
> I guess they are a sub-account of Liabilities but I'm not quite clear
> where they transfer from/to and whether they should be +ve or -ve.
>
Going on from this where do liabilities accrued during the year go?

This is for a church where money goes in and out of the bank account
but some is destined for the 'building fund' which is kept in a
separate (building society, interest bearing) account.

So, at the start of the year some money is owing to the building fund
so it's an 'opening liability', how is that entered? (That was my
first question above)

Then, during the year there is income to the bank account which is
destined for the building fund.  So it is 'income' but also needs
to be recorded as a liability as it's owed to the building fund. How
do I enter this?

--
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] Accounting of loan intended to be paid at the later date by non financial assets

[Paras Desai]

Thanks Jason for offering insight in the issue.

Though Rupees 1 million is a loan effectively, I can differently consider the 
same amount as advance amount received from the client ,of course it will go to 
liability.

Ideally, as you have mentioned, it should have been settled like a normal 
borrowing, but while settling cash with non cash assets, it becomes a complex 
transaction from GAAP point of view, so to simplify and avoid such complexity, 
i thought of settling though revenue (invoice).

Of course, I will advice to avoid such comolex transactions to the one seeking 
advice from me in first place, yet still I wanted to keep an option open.

Thanks a lot for your time in providing me insight.

With best Regards
Paras


10-Nov-2024 9:41:53 pm Jason Seegers 
mailto:jason.seeg...@outlook.com>>:

This would largely depend on which GAAP you are following. You are quoting Rs 
which I assume means Rupees and therefore Indian GAAP, which I have zero 
knowledge of.

Under IFRS / US GAAP, you need to look at the substance of the transaction.

1. you have a loan
2. you are settling via an asset
3. finance costs need to be factored in at a market rate
4. you are not selling goods

Your scenario is complex and also has tax implications. I will provide a very 
brief explanation of accounting treatment only but you need to speak to your 
accountant. This is more of a support forum vs an accounting advice forum.

Dr bank and Cr loan upon receipt of funds

Dr interest (PL) and Cr loan based on a future value settlement calculation of 
the loan at a market related interest rate or weighted average cost of capital 
of your business. Future value appears to be Rs 1.15m per your message.

When you purchase the gold, recognise it as inventory raw material. During 
manufacture, it would be considered WIP. After manufacture complete, it would 
be considered finished goods. Cost to manufacture is capitalised to the cost of 
the asset.

Upon settlement of the loan, you would simply Dr loan and Cr finished goods 
with the agreed value. This does not go to revenue and cost of goods sold 
because the nature of the transaction is that you are settling a loan balance 
and should be treated the same way as you would a bank loan ie when you receive 
money from the bank, it isn’t income and when you repay via cash, you don’t 
recognise it as an expense.

Presumably your business is generating income which would be recognised as 
income and cost of goods sold. This is not part of that.

Interest expense is recognised in the PL for this loan.

As you can see, this is not simple and so you should speak to your accountant.


From: gnucash-user 
mailto:gnucash-user-bounces+jason.online=outlook@gnucash.org>>
 on behalf of Paras Desai 
mailto:desaipa...@outlook.com>>
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2024 06:31
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>>
Subject: [GNC] Accounting of loan intended to be paid at the later date by non 
financial assets

Hello All,

I have a user case for which I seek advice for both accounting principle point 
of view as well for posting in GNUCASH.

I receive a loan of say Rs. 1 million in current day. With the condition that 
it will be paid back by non financial asset at the end of the 12  months, by 
way of say Rs. 1.15 million worth of gold jwelery. (valuation of jaellery 
comprises of cost of gold and cost of making and designing jewellery)

What would  be accounting treatment for this transaction, as an accounting 
principle and in gnucash.

I am thinking following in principle...

Dr bank (assets) :  1 million
Cr lender (liability) : 1 million

Cr lender ( liability) : 0.15 mill (interest)
Dr interest expense : 0.15 milllion

Dr  gold purchase (assets) : 0.95 mill
Dr jewelery mfg expense ; 0.05 mill
Cr bank (assets) : 1 mill

Cr Sale (to lender) : 1.15 million
Dr creditor (lender) : 1.15 million

Cr jewellery ( assets) :  1 million (0.95 mill gold cost plus 0.05 mill 
manufacturing cost)
Dr COGS (expense) : 1 million

Is there any better way for accounting!



A help will be very much appreciated

Thanks
Paras
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_

Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

[Chris Green]

On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 04:30:19PM +, Murugan Mariappan wrote:
> >
> >From: gnucash-user
> > on behalf
> >of Chris Green 
> >Sent: 10 November 2024 10:44
> >To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
> >Subject: Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?
> >
> >On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 12:31:26PM +, Chris Green wrote:
> >> When opening a new set of accounts where does one put a liability
> >that
> >> exists when the accounts are started?
> >>
> >> I guess they are a sub-account of Liabilities but I'm not quite clear
> >> where they transfer from/to and whether they should be +ve or -ve.
> >>
> >Going on from this where do liabilities accrued during the year go?
> >This is for a church where money goes in and out of the bank account
> >but some is destined for the 'building fund' which is kept in a
> >separate (building society, interest bearing) account.
> >So, at the start of the year some money is owing to the building fund
> >so it's an 'opening liability', how is that entered? (That was my
> >first question above)
> >Then, during the year there is income to the bank account which is
> >destined for the building fund.  So it is 'income' but also needs
> >to be recorded as a liability as it's owed to the building fund. How
> >do I enter this?
> >
>
>All opening balances should be mapped to equity account
>
>Same way you can create new loans for building and map the entry to
>equity
>
OK, that's fine, so I have an equity account with the amount owed from
the current account to the building fund.  That amount transfers to an
account in Liabilities.  However I'm stuck on how I add further
amounts owing to the building fund during the year, where do they
transfer from into the liability account?

--
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] Accounting of loan intended to be paid at the later date by non financial assets

[Jason Seegers]

Income received in advance would not normally be a consideration for something 
that takes 12 months which is why you couldn't not treat it as income and 
settle via invoice.

The substance of the transaction is that the client is funding you to produce 
the goods so it would be a loan under IFRS and US GAAP. If you were able to 
fund this yourself, then you would take a nominal deposit upfront and then 
progress payments but presumably you need the funds upfront to make the 
purchase of the golf so without the client paying the full amount, this sale 
would not happen so it is therefore deemed a loan.

Take care.


From: Paras Desai 
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2024 11:39
To: Jason Seegers 
Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
Subject: Re: Re: Accounting of loan intended to be paid at the later date by 
non financial assets

Thanks Jason for offering insight in the issue.

Though Rupees 1 million is a loan effectively, I can differently consider the 
same amount as advance amount received from the client ,of course it will go to 
liability.

Ideally, as you have mentioned, it should have been settled like a normal 
borrowing, but while settling cash with non cash assets, it becomes a complex 
transaction from GAAP point of view, so to simplify and avoid such complexity, 
i thought of settling though revenue (invoice).

Of course, I will advice to avoid such comolex transactions to the one seeking 
advice from me in first place, yet still I wanted to keep an option open.

Thanks a lot for your time in providing me insight.

With best Regards
Paras


10-Nov-2024 9:41:53 pm Jason Seegers 
mailto:jason.seeg...@outlook.com>>:

This would largely depend on which GAAP you are following. You are quoting Rs 
which I assume means Rupees and therefore Indian GAAP, which I have zero 
knowledge of.

Under IFRS / US GAAP, you need to look at the substance of the transaction.

1. you have a loan
2. you are settling via an asset
3. finance costs need to be factored in at a market rate
4. you are not selling goods

Your scenario is complex and also has tax implications. I will provide a very 
brief explanation of accounting treatment only but you need to speak to your 
accountant. This is more of a support forum vs an accounting advice forum.

Dr bank and Cr loan upon receipt of funds

Dr interest (PL) and Cr loan based on a future value settlement calculation of 
the loan at a market related interest rate or weighted average cost of capital 
of your business. Future value appears to be Rs 1.15m per your message.

When you purchase the gold, recognise it as inventory raw material. During 
manufacture, it would be considered WIP. After manufacture complete, it would 
be considered finished goods. Cost to manufacture is capitalised to the cost of 
the asset.

Upon settlement of the loan, you would simply Dr loan and Cr finished goods 
with the agreed value. This does not go to revenue and cost of goods sold 
because the nature of the transaction is that you are settling a loan balance 
and should be treated the same way as you would a bank loan ie when you receive 
money from the bank, it isn’t income and when you repay via cash, you don’t 
recognise it as an expense.

Presumably your business is generating income which would be recognised as 
income and cost of goods sold. This is not part of that.

Interest expense is recognised in the PL for this loan.

As you can see, this is not simple and so you should speak to your accountant.


From: gnucash-user 
mailto:gnucash-user-bounces+jason.online=outlook@gnucash.org>>
 on behalf of Paras Desai 
mailto:desaipa...@outlook.com>>
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2024 06:31
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>>
Subject: [GNC] Accounting of loan intended to be paid at the later date by non 
financial assets

Hello All,

I have a user case for which I seek advice for both accounting principle point 
of view as well for posting in GNUCASH.

I receive a loan of say Rs. 1 million in current day. With the condition that 
it will be paid back by non financial asset at the end of the 12  months, by 
way of say Rs. 1.15 million worth of gold jwelery. (valuation of jaellery 
comprises of cost of gold and cost of making and designing jewellery)

What would  be accounting treatment for this transaction, as an accounting 
principle and in gnucash.

I am thinking following in principle...

Dr bank (assets) :  1 million
Cr lender (liability) : 1 million

Cr lender ( liability) : 0.15 mill (interest)
Dr interest expense : 0.15 milllion

Dr  gold purchase (assets) : 0.95 mill
Dr jewelery mfg expense ; 0.05 mill
Cr bank (assets) : 1 mill

Cr Sale (to lender) : 1.15 million
Dr creditor (lender) : 1.15 million

Cr jewellery ( assets) :  1 million (0.95 mill gold cost plus 0.05 mill 
manufacturing cost)
Dr COGS (expense) : 1 million

Is there any better way 

Re: [GNC] How to find what one can put in GnuCash configuration files?

[David Cousens]

Chris,

The user preferences are created using the Edit->Preferences item from
the menu. there are also meta files created here when yu open a new set
of books and there is some information set by the File->Properties menu
item specific to a particular book. AFAIK nearly all the content in
thee files is set from within GNuCash. Saved reports are
similarlyproduced within GnuCash. They however can be edited and are in
Scheme.

David Cousens

On Sun, 2024-11-10 at 11:43 +, Chris Green wrote:
> I've found the wiki page that documents where GnuCash has its
> configuration files and how you can change the locations:-
> 
>     https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Configuration_Locations
> 
> However I can't find anywhere that documents what you can put in the
> configuration files.  For example what can be put in the files which
> are in $HOME/.config/gnucash (on Linux).
> 
> Also, while I'm here, is there no index or table of contents for the
> wiki?  I found the above Configuration_Locations entry by doing a
> general web search.  I'd expected there to be links from the
> Configuration_Locations page to pages documenting what can be put
> into
> the configuration files.
> 
> 

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Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

[David Cousens]

Chris

The opening entry for existing liabilities looks like'

Liabilities:   Cr 
Equity: Opening Balances   Dr 

and there will be corres[ponding similar entries for existing assets

Assets:Dr 
Equity: Opening Balances   Cr 

Here you would use an appropriate sub account of assets or liabilities
for the particular item.

David Cousens

On Sun, 2024-11-10 at 12:31 +, Chris Green wrote:
> When opening a new set of accounts where does one put a liability
> that
> exists when the accounts are started?
> 
> I guess they are a sub-account of Liabilities but I'm not quite clear
> where they transfer from/to and whether they should be +ve or -ve.
> 

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Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

[Chris Green]

On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 01:13:30PM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Sun, November 10, 2024 12:43 pm, Chris Green wrote:
> 
> > OK, that's fine, so I have an equity account with the amount owed from
> > the current account to the building fund.  That amount transfers to an
> > account in Liabilities.  However I'm stuck on how I add further
> > amounts owing to the building fund during the year, where do they
> > transfer from into the liability account?
> 
> The Equity account is (generally) only used for opening balances before
> you start accounting.  Once you get going, any account opening would
> necessarily have a counter/balance account.  For example, if you open a
> Car Loan, the counter-account would be the Car (Asset), and possibly some
> Tax & Fee Expense account(s).
> 
Exactly as I said.  The amount owed to the building account at the
start of the year is an equity account as a negative amount and adds
to the corresponding liability account at the start.


> So the question is, what "further amounts owing to the building fund" are
> you talking about?   In this particular case, I don't really think it IS a
> liability -- a liability is when someone gives you sometihng of value and
> then you pay them back over time (e.g. a loan, mortgage, etc).  In the
> case of regular building funds, that would most likely be an expense to
> you -- or an asset if you have a way to "get it back".
> 
OK, so how **do** I put it in the accounts?  Some time during the year
we get a donation which is destined for the building fund but it's
paid into the general bank account.  So I need a way to show the
amount in the current account bank balance but **also** indicate that
there's a corresponding liability as it needs to be moved to the
building fund.

-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

On Sun, November 10, 2024 12:43 pm, Chris Green wrote:

> OK, that's fine, so I have an equity account with the amount owed from
> the current account to the building fund.  That amount transfers to an
> account in Liabilities.  However I'm stuck on how I add further
> amounts owing to the building fund during the year, where do they
> transfer from into the liability account?

The Equity account is (generally) only used for opening balances before
you start accounting.  Once you get going, any account opening would
necessarily have a counter/balance account.  For example, if you open a
Car Loan, the counter-account would be the Car (Asset), and possibly some
Tax & Fee Expense account(s).

So the question is, what "further amounts owing to the building fund" are
you talking about?   In this particular case, I don't really think it IS a
liability -- a liability is when someone gives you sometihng of value and
then you pay them back over time (e.g. a loan, mortgage, etc).  In the
case of regular building funds, that would most likely be an expense to
you -- or an asset if you have a way to "get it back".

In the end, of course, if you have a question you should talk to an
accountant for how to record the transactions.  IANAA, so take my input
with the appropriate grain of salt.

> Chris Green

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek


-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: [GNC] Strange display of share price

[John Ralls]

Flavio,

Your problem is that VT’s parent is IBKR and that’s denominated in CHF. GnuCash 
sets the currency for non-currency accounts using the first parent account 
that’s denominated in a currency. That has a couple of consequences, the most 
significant being that if you start a transaction in the VT register it will 
use CHF as the transaction currency that GnuCash will use to balance the 
transaction, so when you buy in USD you’ll have to price both the USD and VT 
into CHF, but if you start in the USD Cash account the transaction currency 
will be in USD and so VT will be priced in USD. Those prices will be reflected 
in the pricedb  If you use Finance::Quote GnuCash will ask it for VT prices in 
CHF.

That’s not a situation GnuCash handles well. For an excruciatingly long 
discussion see https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797796. One of the 
commenters on that bug is CDB-Man, a licensed accountant in Canada. He explains 
the formally correct way to account for investments denominated in currencies 
other than the “book” currency. 

You’ll have less trouble if you put your non-CHF securities in sub accounts 
denominated in the currencies they trade in, for example a USD-Securities 
account denominated in USD for VT and recreating all of the trading 
transactions so that they’re only in that currency. Make sure to get a price 
for the security’s currency in CHF for the same day so you can use the 
nearest-in-time price source to give reports the best chance of  converting 
things to CHF correctly—note that that doesn’t mean that they will. The rollup 
of values on the Accounts page will always be at the latest prices.

Regards,
John Ralls



> On Nov 10, 2024, at 08:46, Boniforti Flavio  wrote:
> 
> Hi Inma, thanks for your reply.
> Indeed I see now where you got the "VT bought in CHF"! I now tried to buy
> again 1 VT stock and looking at the price database, the new entry is also
> in CHF. What does this depend on? I think this is the first thing I should
> solve. Probably the fact that my VT purchases are registered in CHF, but
> taken from an USD bank account, leads to them not appearing in the "USD
> Cash" account in terms of numbers.
> 
> Regarding the screenshot you shared with 4 entries: what accounts are "USD"
> and "VT" there? I don't have these - I do have "Assets:Investments:IBKR:USD
> Cash" and "Assets:Investments:IBKR:VT".
> 
> Thanks again for your help,
> F.
> 

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Re: [GNC] Accounting of loan intended to be paid at the later date by non financial assets

[Jason Seegers]

This would largely depend on which GAAP you are following. You are quoting Rs 
which I assume means Rupees and therefore Indian GAAP, which I have zero 
knowledge of.

Under IFRS / US GAAP, you need to look at the substance of the transaction.

1. you have a loan
2. you are settling via an asset
3. finance costs need to be factored in at a market rate
4. you are not selling goods

Your scenario is complex and also has tax implications. I will provide a very 
brief explanation of accounting treatment only but you need to speak to your 
accountant. This is more of a support forum vs an accounting advice forum.

Dr bank and Cr loan upon receipt of funds

Dr interest (PL) and Cr loan based on a future value settlement calculation of 
the loan at a market related interest rate or weighted average cost of capital 
of your business. Future value appears to be Rs 1.15m per your message.

When you purchase the gold, recognise it as inventory raw material. During 
manufacture, it would be considered WIP. After manufacture complete, it would 
be considered finished goods. Cost to manufacture is capitalised to the cost of 
the asset.

Upon settlement of the loan, you would simply Dr loan and Cr finished goods 
with the agreed value. This does not go to revenue and cost of goods sold 
because the nature of the transaction is that you are settling a loan balance 
and should be treated the same way as you would a bank loan ie when you receive 
money from the bank, it isn’t income and when you repay via cash, you don’t 
recognise it as an expense.

Presumably your business is generating income which would be recognised as 
income and cost of goods sold. This is not part of that.

Interest expense is recognised in the PL for this loan.

As you can see, this is not simple and so you should speak to your accountant.


From: gnucash-user  
on behalf of Paras Desai 
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2024 06:31
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
Subject: [GNC] Accounting of loan intended to be paid at the later date by non 
financial assets

Hello All,

I have a user case for which I seek advice for both accounting principle point 
of view as well for posting in GNUCASH.

I receive a loan of say Rs. 1 million in current day. With the condition that 
it will be paid back by non financial asset at the end of the 12  months, by 
way of say Rs. 1.15 million worth of gold jwelery. (valuation of jaellery 
comprises of cost of gold and cost of making and designing jewellery)

What would  be accounting treatment for this transaction, as an accounting 
principle and in gnucash.

I am thinking following in principle...

Dr bank (assets) :  1 million
Cr lender (liability) : 1 million

Cr lender ( liability) : 0.15 mill (interest)
Dr interest expense : 0.15 milllion

Dr  gold purchase (assets) : 0.95 mill
Dr jewelery mfg expense ; 0.05 mill
Cr bank (assets) : 1 mill

Cr Sale (to lender) : 1.15 million
Dr creditor (lender) : 1.15 million

Cr jewellery ( assets) :  1 million (0.95 mill gold cost plus 0.05 mill 
manufacturing cost)
Dr COGS (expense) : 1 million

Is there any better way for accounting!



A help will be very much appreciated

Thanks
Paras
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Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

[David Cousens]

Chris

If you receive further donations to the building fund during the year
these will be new income so the second account to the bank account will
be an Income account, i.e. an appropriately named subaccount of the top
level income account and the account receiving the money will be an
Asset account or sub account. The balance of the  Asset account is
being increased by the transaction so it will be a debit entry

Asset:Bank:Building Fund  Dr   xx.xx
Income:Donations:Building FundCr xx.xx

Income and Expense accounts are what are known as temporary Eqyuity
accounts in accounting. Their purpose is to record transactions
affecting the Equity of the entity in the current accounting period
(usually financial year) so that the profit or lossfor a business or
the surplus or deficit for a non-profit organization can be calculated
over that period.  

At the end of the accounting period, those temporary accounts  are
transferred to Equity in conventional accounting practice
by "closing the accounts" which is just a name for transactions
transferring the balances of the income and expense account to the
equity account.

This procedure is not strictly necessary in GnuCash as the Profit/Loss
reports will calculate  the appropriate amounts for any specific period
you require but can be done if necessary.

Have you read the Basics section of the GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts
guide (https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v5/C/gnucash-guide/index.html)
.  It is  a basic introduction to the principles of accounting although
fairly concise.

David Cousens


 
On Sun, 2024-11-10 at 18:52 +, Chris Green wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 01:13:30PM -0500, Derek Atkins wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On Sun, November 10, 2024 12:43 pm, Chris Green wrote:
> > 
> > > OK, that's fine, so I have an equity account with the amount owed
> > > from
> > > the current account to the building fund.  That amount transfers
> > > to an
> > > account in Liabilities.  However I'm stuck on how I add further
> > > amounts owing to the building fund during the year, where do they
> > > transfer from into the liability account?
> > 
> > The Equity account is (generally) only used for opening balances
> > before
> > you start accounting.  Once you get going, any account opening
> > would
> > necessarily have a counter/balance account.  For example, if you
> > open a
> > Car Loan, the counter-account would be the Car (Asset), and
> > possibly some
> > Tax & Fee Expense account(s).
> > 
> Exactly as I said.  The amount owed to the building account at the
> start of the year is an equity account as a negative amount and adds
> to the corresponding liability account at the start.
> 
> 
> > So the question is, what "further amounts owing to the building
> > fund" are
> > you talking about?   In this particular case, I don't really think
> > it IS a
> > liability -- a liability is when someone gives you sometihng of
> > value and
> > then you pay them back over time (e.g. a loan, mortgage, etc).  In
> > the
> > case of regular building funds, that would most likely be an
> > expense to
> > you -- or an asset if you have a way to "get it back".
> > 
> OK, so how **do** I put it in the accounts?  Some time during the
> year
> we get a donation which is destined for the building fund but it's
> paid into the general bank account.  So I need a way to show the
> amount in the current account bank balance but **also** indicate that
> there's a corresponding liability as it needs to be moved to the
> building fund.
> 

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Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

[Chris Green]

On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 12:31:26PM +, Chris Green wrote:
> When opening a new set of accounts where does one put a liability that
> exists when the accounts are started?
> 
> I guess they are a sub-account of Liabilities but I'm not quite clear
> where they transfer from/to and whether they should be +ve or -ve.
> 
Going on from this where do liabilities accrued during the year go?

This is for a church where money goes in and out of the bank account
but some is destined for the 'building fund' which is kept in a
separate (building society, interest bearing) account.

So, at the start of the year some money is owing to the building fund
so it's an 'opening liability', how is that entered? (That was my
first question above)

Then, during the year there is income to the bank account which is
destined for the building fund.  So it is 'income' but also needs
to be recorded as a liability as it's owed to the building fund. How
do I enter this?

-- 
Chris Green
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[GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

[Chris Green]

When opening a new set of accounts where does one put a liability that
exists when the accounts are started?

I guess they are a sub-account of Liabilities but I'm not quite clear
where they transfer from/to and whether they should be +ve or -ve.

-- 
Chris Green
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[GNC] Accounting of loan intended to be paid at the later date by non financial assets

[Paras Desai]

Hello All,

I have a user case for which I seek advice for both accounting principle point 
of view as well for posting in GNUCASH.

I receive a loan of say Rs. 1 million in current day. With the condition that 
it will be paid back by non financial asset at the end of the 12  months, by 
way of say Rs. 1.15 million worth of gold jwelery. (valuation of jaellery 
comprises of cost of gold and cost of making and designing jewellery)

What would  be accounting treatment for this transaction, as an accounting 
principle and in gnucash.

I am thinking following in principle...

Dr bank (assets) :  1 million
Cr lender (liability) : 1 million

Cr lender ( liability) : 0.15 mill (interest)
Dr interest expense : 0.15 milllion

Dr  gold purchase (assets) : 0.95 mill
Dr jewelery mfg expense ; 0.05 mill
Cr bank (assets) : 1 mill

Cr Sale (to lender) : 1.15 million
Dr creditor (lender) : 1.15 million

Cr jewellery ( assets) :  1 million (0.95 mill gold cost plus 0.05 mill 
manufacturing cost)
Dr COGS (expense) : 1 million

Is there any better way for accounting!



A help will be very much appreciated

Thanks
Paras
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[GNC] Where do I find "gnc:option-set-value" and "gnc-set-option"?

[Chris Green]

I just started a new set of accounts with GnuCash 5.6 and I'm getting
a warning:-

Some deprecated features have been used.  Set the environment
variable GUILE_WARN_DEPRECATED to "detailed" and rerun the
program to get more information.  Set it to "no" to suppress
this message.

This is a little bit odd as all I have done is to copy the accounts
from a previous set of accounts, I've not (consciously) changed
anything.

However, whatever the reason, it would be nice to get rid of the
warning.  I set GUILE_WARN_DEPRECATED to "detailed" as required and
now it says:-

gnc:option-set-value and indeed all direct option access is deprecated. Use 
gnc-set-option instead.

I have searched and found a couple of option-set-value entries in
.local/share/gnucash/books/general2024.gnucash.gcm and 
.local/share/gnucash/books/general2024.gnucash_2.gcm 

I've not changed these files myself, something I've done while running
gnucash must have done it.  So, what do I change gnc:option-set-value
to?  

-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

[Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user]

Have you read the Basics section of the GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts
guide (https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v5/C/gnucash-guide/index.html)
.  It is  a basic introduction to the principles of accounting although
fairly concise.

David Cousens

UH  unfortunately basics not enough for those of us keeping the 
books for non-profits where we often have to deal with restricted 
funds/donations, both as the funds come in and are held as well as when 
restrictions come off when used for their intended purpose.


IF  each restricted fund has its own bank account a little easier but 
often there is just one "other" bank account holding all the restricted 
funds and sometimes in very small orgs, just the one bank account.



Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

[David Carlson]

Silly Question:  Which William Woodward made those paintings?  The one born
in Seekonk, Massachusetts
on May 1st 1859 or
the one born in Washington, D.C in1935?

On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 4:28 PM Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> > The Equity account is (generally) only used for opening balances before
> > you start accounting.  Once you get going, any account opening would
> > necessarily have a counter/balance account.  For example, if you open a
> > Car Loan, the counter-account would be the Car (Asset), and possibly some
> > Tax & Fee Expense account(s).
>
> No, well not exactly.
>
> a) The only reason it might seem so for individuals and sole
> proprietorships is that most of us are not doing a periodic "close the
> book" nor do many of us have "journal" transactions (adjustments). It is
> only because software like gnucash can give us reports WITHOUT actually
> closing that we usually don't have equity transaction.
>
> b) Partnerships, corporations, etc. would have MANY equity transactions.
> These weren't needed when just ONE owner (of the equity) but when split
> among many, have to account for that, how much of equity to each.
>
> But you will probably want an example of a "journal entry" transaction.
>
> You bought your house a few years ago, but until now, never got around
> to clearing all of the junk out of the attic. Among that junk you find a
> couple of paintings, and gee, William Woodard. So not a fortune, but you
> are probably going to want to add an asset category "art" and put these
> there at a reasonable estimate of what they might go for (and don't
> forget to contact your property insurance carrier.
>
> Now this "find" is NOT income. The pictures became your property when
> you bought the house and they had been left there (and so included). The
> transaction where you enter their asset estimated value would have
> equity as the other side.
>
> Michael D Novack
>
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-- 
David Carlson
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Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

[David Cousens]

Michael

It may be an appropriate time to add to the guide or the wiki a section
specifically dealing non-profit accounting and issues like restricted
funds. That is likely to be a significant part of the GnuCash user
base.

David Cousens

On Sun, 2024-11-10 at 17:49 -0500, Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-
user wrote:
> 
> > Have you read the Basics section of the GnuCash Tutorial and
> > Concepts
> > guide (https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v5/C/gnucash-guide/index.html)
> > .  It is  a basic introduction to the principles of accounting
> > although
> > fairly concise.
> > 
> > David Cousens
> > 
> UH  unfortunately basics not enough for those of us keeping the 
> books for non-profits where we often have to deal with restricted 
> funds/donations, both as the funds come in and are held as well as
> when 
> restrictions come off when used for their intended purpose.
> 
> IF  each restricted fund has its own bank account a little easier but
> often there is just one "other" bank account holding all the
> restricted 
> funds and sometimes in very small orgs, just the one bank account.
> 
> 
> Michael D Novack
> 
> 
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Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

[Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user]

The Equity account is (generally) only used for opening balances before
you start accounting.  Once you get going, any account opening would
necessarily have a counter/balance account.  For example, if you open a
Car Loan, the counter-account would be the Car (Asset), and possibly some
Tax & Fee Expense account(s).


No, well not exactly.

a) The only reason it might seem so for individuals and sole 
proprietorships is that most of us are not doing a periodic "close the 
book" nor do many of us have "journal" transactions (adjustments). It is 
only because software like gnucash can give us reports WITHOUT actually 
closing that we usually don't have equity transaction.


b) Partnerships, corporations, etc. would have MANY equity transactions. 
These weren't needed when just ONE owner (of the equity) but when split 
among many, have to account for that, how much of equity to each.


But you will probably want an example of a "journal entry" transaction.

You bought your house a few years ago, but until now, never got around 
to clearing all of the junk out of the attic. Among that junk you find a 
couple of paintings, and gee, William Woodard. So not a fortune, but you 
are probably going to want to add an asset category "art" and put these 
there at a reasonable estimate of what they might go for (and don't 
forget to contact your property insurance carrier.


Now this "find" is NOT income. The pictures became your property when 
you bought the house and they had been left there (and so included). The 
transaction where you enter their asset estimated value would have 
equity as the other side.


Michael D Novack

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Re: [GNC] Where do 'opening liabilities' go?

[Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user]

On 11/10/2024 5:51 PM, David Carlson wrote:
Silly Question:  Which William Woodward made those paintings?  The one 
born in Seekonk, Massachusetts 
on May 1st 1859 
or the one born in Washington, D.C in1935?


Either would do for the example, and I chose the name because another 
Woodward, Robert, lived and painted in the same MA town (township) where 
I live and ever few years another one or two of his paintings turns up 
in the manner described.


But essentially I just wanted an artist in the middling price range.

Michael D Novack

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