date:20240920

https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2024-September/113205.html
John
Ralls wrote:

> ...

Posts with links can be opened directly if there is clear space around the
link.  Would commodity Wheat be Type Stock?

While this is raised in the context of Managed Funds
https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v5/C/gnucash-guide/invest_concepts1.html#invest_types2
defines Stocks and Mutual Funds:

> ...A mutual fund is a group investment mechanism in which you can buy into
> many stocks simultaneously. For example, a “S&P 500 index fund” is a fund
> which purchases all 500 stocks listed in the Standard and Poor’s index.
> When you buy a share of this fund, you are really buying a small amount of
> each of the 500 stocks contained within the fund. Mutual funds are treated
> exactly like a single stock, both for tax purposes and in accounting.

Firstly, the definition applies equally to Exchange Traded Funds and
unlisted Managed Funds. Seems painful splitting the same stock exchange
(workspace) into two types. Why differentiate between Account Type Stock
and Mutual Fund?

Secondly, assuming there is good reason to split from Stock, why not use a
more generic term "Fund" for Account Type instead of "Mutual Fund"?

Regards

>
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Re: [GNC] Australian Mutual Funds

https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2024-September/113205.html
John
Ralls wrote:

> ...

Posts with links can be opened directly if there is clear space around the
link.  Would commodity Wheat be Type Stock?

While this is raised in the context of Managed Funds
https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v5/C/gnucash-guide/invest_concepts1.html#invest_types2
defines
Stocks and Mutual Funds:

> ...A mutual fund is a group investment mechanism in which you can buy into
> many stocks simultaneously. For example, a “S&P 500 index fund” is a fund
> which purchases all 500 stocks listed in the Standard and Poor’s index.
> When you buy a share of this fund, you are really buying a small amount of
> each of the 500 stocks contained within the fund. Mutual funds are treated
> exactly like a single stock, both for tax purposes and in accounting.

Firstly, the definition applies equally to Exchange Traded Funds and
unlisted Managed Funds. Seems painful splitting the same stock exchange
(workspace) into two types. Why differentiate between Account Type Stock
and Mutual Fund?

Secondly, assuming there is good reason to split from Stock, why not use a
more generic term "Fund" for Account Type instead of "Mutual Fund"?

Regards

>
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Re: [GNC] Database storage

2024-09-20 Thread David Cousens

Hi Chris,

Sorry I didn't reply earlier but your email ended up in my spam folder.
The transaction report should do it if you select all accounts but that
will double up as most transactions will affect at least two accounts
but there is no count of them provided in the report.  It may be
possible to modify the report to produce such a count if you are
familiar with Scheme. If you are using a SQL database backend, an SQL
query to the splits table should give you some indication of the number
of entries. I unfortunately have used the and still use the XML
backend. 

GnuCash started out as a non-database program and it would require a
complete rewrite of the core engine along with the subsequent debugging
to make the database concurrently accessible by multiple users as
others have likely explained. It would require individual record
locking to be implemented and the logic to sort out the order in which
transactions and components of transactions should be recorded. There
is not a single table for transactions as each transaction links to one
or more entries in the table of splits (entries to a single specific
account). The account specific data (parent, type etc ) is recorded in
another table which links in each case to the account entry in a
specific split.

The GnuCash development team is fairly small given the program's
utility, so such a rewrite is likely beyond the available resources at
this stage. It is on the roadmap for future improvements, but I
wouldn't hold my breath waiting unless someone with some serious
database design skills takes on the task.  The portability of the XML
file and not needing much in the way of database understanding/skills
to use the program are major factors for retention of the XML format.

David Cousens
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Re: [GNC] Australian Mutual Funds

Thank you, Bruce - I guess I will add as Mutuals and track individually...


-- 
Regards,


Megan Tilley
megan.til...@gmail.com
0409 949 717

---
"He who laughs last probably made a backup."
---



On Sat, 21 Sept 2024 at 12:06, Bruce Schuck 
wrote:

> On  Sat, 21 Sep 2024 11:52:40 +1000 Megan Tilley wrote:
>
> > I have done so (created the commodity in Tools>Security Editor) however,
> > that process only allows "Stocks" and not a Fund... so - confusion on my
> > part.
>
> > I have obviously done the creation incorrectly as the 'new' list still
> does
> > not show the additions - snip of Security list and also Account list.
>
>
> FYI - Finance::Quote has issues open for both the ASX and MorningstarAU
> modules. Sorry, but no ETA on when either will be addressed.
>
> Bruce S.
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Australian Mutual Funds

2024-09-20 Thread John Ralls

That’s not correct. You can create a commodity for anything you like, and BTW 
you can create any number of namespaces to categorize your commodities.

Yes, “commodity” is an overloaded word in English. To market traders it means 
futures in some physical product: Sow bellies, wheat, steel. In GnuCash it 
means anything that you might account for that isn’t an official (meaning 
recognized by the ISO 4217 committee).

So, you want a namespace “Mutual Fund”? No problem. Open Tools>Security Editor. 
Click the Add button. Fill out the dialog box as shown in the first screenshot 
and click OK. On the Accounts tab click the New button and fill out the new 
account information, selecting either Stock or Mutual Fund for the Account 
Type, then click Select. If the new commodity is the only one you’ve got then 
that will be in the selection dialog as shown in the second screenshot.

This is all explained much more thoroughly in Chapter 9 of the Tutorial and 
Concepts Guide: 
https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v5/C/gnucash-guide/chapter_invest.html. See 
Chapter 11 for a thorough discussion of Capital Gains.

Regards,
John Ralls

> On Sep 20, 2024, at 18:52, Megan Tilley  wrote:
> 
> I have done so (created the commodity in Tools>Security Editor) however, that 
> process only allows "Stocks" and not a Fund... so - confusion on my part.
> 
> I have obviously done the creation incorrectly as the 'new' list still does 
> not show the additions - snip of Security list and also Account list.
> 
> As I indicated - I believe that they should be Mutual Funds...
> 
> Commodity in Australia is a classification - a Stock fits in a Commodity 
> market place - Manufacturing, Property, etc.. So I think I need to add 
> "Property" somewhere.

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Re: [GNC] Project and Design Documentation

2024-09-20 Thread sunfish62--- via gnucash-user

Fair point, but you never answered the initial question: were users on the list 
referring to that page, or were you implying that their requests for 
enhancements could have been addressed by this page which they don't know about 
and which developers haven't updated? 

It wasn't clear to me what your intention was in raising this page, and I made 
the mistaken assumption that you were concerned that people were seeking 
changes to the software, which is why I suggested they use bugzilla. My 
apologies. 

I suspect that the page hasn't been updated because the developers' time is 
limited, and they are focused on improving the software. One of the principal 
developers, John Ralls, makes many comments on this list that indicate the 
direction and focus of the application. Users who have a desire to see them 
brought together on a wiki page could edit that wiki page themselves and keep 
that page more current. 

⁣David T. 

On Sep 21, 2024, 1:50 AM, at 1:50 AM, flywire  wrote:
>https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2024-September/112961.html
>sunfish62 wrote:
>> As I understand it, the developers focus on entries in bugzilla (
>bugs.gnucash.org) to address problems and proposals. It is better
>advice to
>suggest that users with specific suggestions for improvement submit
>requests for enhancement (RFEs) there.
>
>https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Project_and_Design_Documentation is for
>developers to inform users not users inform developers.
>
>
>Regards
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Re: [GNC] Database storage

2024-09-20 Thread Mark Penner

Sep 20, 2024 03:51:56 Jim DeLaHunt :

> Then when you tell GnuCash to store a single "accounting record of an 
> exchange of value" entry, GnuCash updates the data it has in memory. In 
> simple terms, it does not make any change to data stored in the database at 
> that moment.  When you tell GnuCash to save the book, then it makes a few 
> controlled and reliable changes to data stored in a database so that the 
> information in memory is stored in the database.

When I was using the SQLite backend, it wrote the changes immediately, I didn't 
save manually. The save action may have been greyed out, I can't remember. 
SQLite isn't designed for concurrent writes, though.

I'm not sure how reading a SQLite db is handled, that may still be done only at 
startup.

I haven't looked at the code, I'm relying on my memory of how the UI showed 
things.
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[GNC] Australian Mutual Funds

Hi, I'm trying to create an Australian Mutual Fund entry for my
investments.

It is a combination Fund with a primary focus on Property.

When I create the Mutual Fund under my Broker Parent Account, I keep
getting asked for a "Commodity" but I can not find where to input that,
which would be  my "Property" component.


-- 
Regards,


Megan In Sydney Australia
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Re: [GNC] Database storage

Hi Jim, 

> Beware of confusion: the word "transaction" is already used on this list
> to mean an "accounting record of an exchange of value". But I suspect
> that here you use the word "transaction" to mean a "controlled and
> reliable change to data stored in a database".
Yes. They are similar. Both represent "atomic" updates, meaning "all or 
nothing". 

>> * Are transactions implemented? -- Let's assume, "Yes."
Let's assume, "No." (-: Apparently SQLite represent zero improvement over the 
flat file storage. 

Is there a way to update backing store anytime I make a change, and not 
periodically? It seems like leaving updates lying around in memory is a good 
way to lose updates when the dog pulls the plug out of the wall. 

Thanks for the help, 
-- 
Chris. 

V:916.799.9461 
F:916.974.0428 
A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right.
Q: > Why should I start my reply below the quoted text? 
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Re: [GNC] Database storage

2024-09-20 Thread Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user

Hi Robert, 

> One thing that all of the *SQL backends do provide over the flat XML file
> storage: accessing the data (*read-only!*) between runs of GnuCash is easier.
> Instead of either trying to parse the XML or using Python bindings to the
> GnuCash API, one can write code using SQL (in any language that supports SQL)
> to grab data to generate reports, etc. outside of the GnuCash framework. I
> believe at least one person on this list does exactly that.
Oh! Do I understand the GnuCash parses the data and stores it in database 
tables? --- like one table for each account? Or are all the rows going to be 
the same with each row being an accounting transaction "acct 1 $X.XX acct 2 
-$X.XX"? What about "splits"? 

Thanks for the help, 
-- 
Chris. 

V:916.799.9461 
F:916.974.0428 
A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right.
Q: > Why should I start my reply below the quoted text? 
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Re: [GNC] Database storage

2024-09-20 Thread Mark at Lorimark





~mark petryk
~w:http://www.lorimarksolutions.com

On 9/18/24 22:30, Chris Miller via gnucash-user wrote:

Hi David,
I don't suppose GnuCash has a transaction list report that could tell us that 
quickly?



A simple way to answer this question would be to save the file as SQL, 
open the SQL with sqlite, and then run some simple queries.



Thanks for the help,

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Re: [GNC] Database storage


On 9/19/2024 3:53 PM, Steve Butler wrote:
My first job out of college had a Honeywell 115 Mod 2 box.  Hard drive 
(singular) was 10 MB.  RAM was 32K of magnetic core.  6 bit CPU and 7 
track 556 bpi tape (3 of them).


Thought we were going to heaven when it was replaced by an HP 3000 
with 7 hard drives of 47 MB each and 512 KB memory.


It would have been ~1960. I and a HS friend made a small 4 bit machine 
that was actually advanced for its day as 100% solid state. Transistor 
flip flops and Burroughs magnetic donuts had strung in a cigar ox for 
"core".


Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] Database storage

2024-09-20 Thread Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user

Hi Mark, 

> I have ~some~ knowledge.
> In SQL, these are the 'tables' used for storage;

>> sqlite> .tables
>> accounts employees orders taxtables
>> billterms entries prices transactions
>> books gnclock recurrences vendors
>> budget_amounts gnucashew_vars schedxactions versions
>> budgets invoices slots
>> commodities jobs splits
>> customers lots taxtable_entries
> The .schema on the tables is pretty clear. The 'split's are stored in
> splits and transaction stored in transactions and so forth...

> What would you like to know?
I'm just stumbling around in the dark, picking up whatever bits of wisdom I can 
find. 

This was quite helpful, and I would have done it myself, had I a running 
example. I am a QuickBooks refugee and after reviewing dozens of offerings, I 
am beginning to conclude that GnuCash is probably the best alternative, the 
whole back-end issue not withstanding. I am not "running" because migration is 
a non-trivial process. 

Thanks for the help, 
-- 
Chris. 

V:916.799.9461 
F:916.974.0428 
A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right.
Q: > Why should I start my reply below the quoted text? 
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Re: [GNC] Database storage

2024-09-20 Thread Mark at Lorimark

Hi Chris,

I have ~some~ knowledge.

In SQL, these are the 'tables' used for storage;

sqlite> .tables
accounts employees orderstaxtables
billterms entries pricestransactions
books gnclock recurrences vendors
budget_amountsgnucashew_varsschedxactions versions
budgets invoices slots
commodities jobs splits
customers lots taxtable_entries

The .schema on the tables is pretty clear. The 'split's are stored in
splits and transaction stored in transactions and so forth...

What would you like to know?

~mark petryk
~w:http://www.lorimarksolutions.com

On 9/20/24 09:29, Chris Miller via gnucash-user wrote:

Hi Robert,

One thing that all of the *SQL backends do provide over the flat XML file
storage: accessing the data (*read-only!*) between runs of GnuCash is easier.
Instead of either trying to parse the XML or using Python bindings to the
GnuCash API, one can write code using SQL (in any language that supports SQL)
to grab data to generate reports, etc. outside of the GnuCash framework. I
believe at least one person on this list does exactly that.

Oh! Do I understand the GnuCash parses the data and stores it in database tables? --- like one
table for each account? Or are all the rows going to be the same with each row being an accounting
transaction "acct 1 $X.XX acct 2 -$X.XX"? What about "splits"?

Thanks for the help,

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Re: [GNC] dollar signs in reports

2024-09-20 Thread sunfish62--- via gnucash-user

I'm not certain, but I think that a user can edit the symbol for a currency and 
set it to blank. 

⁣David T.

On Sep 20, 2024, 3:19 AM, at 3:19 AM, Murugan Mariappan 
 wrote:
>You cannot remove the sign altogether.  Can you explain the use case
>
>
>
>
>Saludos Cordiales
>
>
>Murugan
>
>
>From: gnucash-user
> on behalf
>of Ian D Henry 
>Sent: 19 September 2024 20:44
>To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
>Subject: [GNC] dollar signs in reports
>
>I would like to suppress the dollar sign in my income statement and
>balance
>sheet.  How can I do that?
>
>--
>Ian D Henry
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Re: [GNC] dollar signs in reports

2024-09-20 Thread Murugan Mariappan

If you want to register and track non standard ISO currency , create it as a 
security and register and track.




Saludos Cordiales


Murugan


From: gnucash-user 
 on behalf of 
Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user 
Sent: 20 September 2024 12:18
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
Subject: Re: [GNC] dollar signs in reports

On 9/19/2024 8:17 PM, Murugan Mariappan wrote:
> You cannot remove the sign altogether.  Can you explain the use case

The main legitimate reason would be the accounting unit is not any
generally accepted "currency" but some special unit. Nor a commodity,
because by rules, not allowed to be exchanged for any real currency.

EXAMPLES

a) Some local "currency" like "Ithaca Hours" (look up)

b) The money of some fantasy game.

You might not be able to eliminate WITHIN gnucash but you could
certainly export and then edit that replacing all "$" with " "

Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] How to treat a sale which involves more accounts?

This IS the way should have started. With the problem descried in 
"business" terms, for the moment leaving gnucash out of it << at this 
level, the answers would app;y equally to old fashioned keeping the 
books pen and ink on paper >>


a) The income or loss from sale of part of your collection is 
incidental/"hobby" income, and note the IRS treats losses from hobbies 
differently than business losses.

b) Also like any other "collectible"/art income or losses.
c) Because of the special treatment of losses (only deductible up to 
gains *from this source*) you are perhaps going to want to treat "cost 
of instruments sold" as a contra account adjacent to "sales"
BUT FOLLOW THE ADVICE OF YOUR TAX PROFESSIONAL -- there are rules 
explaining under what conditions allowed to treat as a business as 
opposed to a hobby. That is advantageous as then losses exceeding gains 
in that category deductible from gains in other categories. I am NOT 
qualified to give this advice. In any case, you need a decision here, 
hobby or business before helping you set up accounts. HINT -- how many 
years do you make a profit selling instruments vs how many a loss? 
That's going to be relevant, and yes I know, you are going to turn 
around and say "but that's what I need books for". Do you at least have 
a good guess?


Michel D Novack

PS -- you are allowed to look at the IRS regs yourself  you have a 
key word "hobby" to use in searches. If after reading the IRS rules you 
think you know how should be classed you can get back to us. Relevant is 
your estimate of how much extra you would owe if they overrule you -- 
something you could deal with?




On 9/19/2024 3:52 PM, Boniforti Flavio wrote:

Hi David and David :-)
Thanks for your replies.
I'm not running any business at all. I am a musician who also collects
(vintage) music instruments. As I also do play them, it happens a couple of
times a year that I'm not interested anymore in keeping one or the other
instrument. For this reason, I sell a couple of items a year and given the
fact that the majority of my items are "vintage" ones, prices are always
fluctuating. So I want to keep track of how much I've gained (or lost) when
selling an item.
Given the above, I think that if I would only use a single "Music
equipment" account, I could not see how much I made (plus or minus) while
selling some items - right? This is the reason which led me to think
about setting up some accounts to "correctly" keep track of this all.

Using this:
1. Debit the Checking account for the total amount of the purchase paid by
the customer;
2. Credit the Income:Sales account by the total amount of the purchase;
3. Credit the Inventory: MusicEquipment Sales account by the amount of the
cost of the items sold;
4. Debit the Expenses:Cost of Goods Sold account by the amount of the
cost of the items sold.

I would do the following when selling something for 120 which I bought for
100:
1. increase the checking account by 120;
2. increase the "Income:Sales" account by 120;
3. increase the "Inventory:Music Equipment Sales" account by 120;
4. decrease the "Expenses:Cost of Goods Sold" account by 100.

(of course previoulsy I'd had increased the "Inventory:Music Equipment
Purchases" and decreased my "Assets:Checking Account" by 100).

Am I correct with the above?
TIA,
F.


https://www.instagram.com/boniforti_music
https://soundcloud.com/boniforti_music
https://bonny-j.bandcamp.com


Am Do., 19. Sept. 2024 um 03:52 Uhr schrieb David Cousens <
davidcousen...@gmail.com>:


Flavio,

Why would you need a Music equipment sold account in the first place?

If your business is making music then:

when you buy equipment you credit your checking account and debit the
Music Equipment asset account by the amount of the purchase;
when you sell the equipment you debit your checking account and credit
the music equipment account.

In this case the equipment is not held for the purpose of selling it at
a profit. You may however be subject to capital gains type taxes if
  they apply in your jurisdiction and the value of the equipment sold
exceeds the thresholds for such taxes.

The situation may however be slightly different if your business is
actually retailing music equipment. In this case the Music Equipment
account is essentially an Inventory account - still an asset account.

You would normally in these circumstances set up an Inventory asset
account which is a placeholder with two sub accounts Inventory:Music
Equipment Purchases and Inventory:Music Equipment Sales. Your Income
top level account will also need a subaccount Income:Sales and your
Expenses top level acoount will need a sub account Expenses:Cost of
Goods Sold (GoGS)

The basic procedure is the same for purchases of equipment, credit the
checking account and debit the Music Equipment Purchases sub account.

When you make a sale only the difference between the cost of the
equipment sold and the selling price is your income ( neglecting  any
sales tax issues

Re: [GNC] Database storage

2024-09-20 Thread Mark at Lorimark

~mark petryk
~w:http://www.lorimarksolutions.com

On 9/19/24 11:27, Chris Miller via gnucash-user wrote:

Hi Roberts,

* Transactional database updates implies multiple user concurrency, but everywhere I hear that multiple
users is "problematic". Certainly this is true with the XML storage because the file is single-use
locked, so less "problematic" than "impossible". (-: But is it still true with SQLite?

*guessing a little* I think the issue with SQLITE is that while updates
~can~ be written to the SQL file throughout the user experience, and
another instance of gnucash ~can~ simultaneously open that same file,
the 'issue' is because that 2nd instance of gnucash accessing the same
file would "not be aware" of updates that are written to the file from
the 1st instance.

It would be a little similar if you were to open a .txt file with
notepad, and have your cohort open that same file. While you both can
see the file, and you both can even change it, and even save it, what
you don't get is notification that someone else updated the file while
you had it open. You'd have to close it, and re-open it to see their
changes.

From the SQL perspective, special effort has to be made in the
application to constantly monitor the database underneath.

Also, SQLITE suffers from "two users opening a file" but that is
somewhat manageable.

* If SQLite is supporting transactions, and I then have to assume SQLite is
"talking" SQL, then what is the complexity with doing the same for other
back-end databases?

It's hard to tell which 'transactions' we're talking about here.
Database 'servers' support transactions, whereby you can queue up a
bunch of SQL commands and wrap them in a 'transaction' and if any one of
those SQL steps fails the whole transaction will fail.

But, of course, 'transactions' within GnuCash is just the concept of
'financial transactions'.

Thanks for the help,

Re: [GNC] TXF

2024-09-20 Thread John Ralls

Yes, but only for users in the US. Alex Aycinena updates the US report every 
year to reflect the TXF changes for the previous year.
See 
https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v5/C/gnucash-guide/rpt_standardrpts.html#rpt_grp_miscrpts
 amd  
https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v5/C/gnucash-manual/report-classes.html#report-regional.

There is also a TXF config and report for Germany but it hasn’t had substantive 
maintenance for 14 years and may no longer be useful.

Regards,
John Ralls

> On Sep 20, 2024, at 09:19, Chris Miller via gnucash-user 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Folks, 
> 
> Does GnuCash export data in TXF format for inclusion in tax preparation 
> software? This would require that I could label accounts according to their 
> IRS form and form line number. 
> 
> Thanks for the help, 
> -- 
> Chris. 
> 
> V:916.799.9461 
> F:916.974.0428 
> A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right.
>Q: > Why should I start my reply below the quoted text? 
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[GNC] Australian Mutual Funds

2024-09-20 Thread Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user

> an Australian Mutual Fund... It is a combination Fund with a primary
focus on Property.

Mutual fund is a very American term. Can you give an example fund? I assume
you are referring to a managed fund that is not directly traded on the ASX,
unlike an ETF (Exchange Traded Fund).


Regards
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Re: [GNC] dollar signs in reports


On 9/20/2024 12:26 PM, Murugan Mariappan wrote:
If you want to register and track non standard ISO currency , create 
it as a security and register and track.


I was assuming that what was wanted was full accounting in this other 
unit of exchange. The fact that "rules" might make it not exchangeable 
with any ISO currency does not make it "non-currency" to the 
people/group who are using it in some sort of exchange. Keep in mind 
that we tend to think of our real money as being universally 
exchangeable but our society ALSO has rules << think of things you are 
NOT allowed to buy/sell for money -- easier that way, because by our 
rules most things can be >>


Let's say the folks of Yap, having cell phones and computers these days, 
wanted to have an accounting system for rai (those big stones often 
called "Yap money". Instead of depending on memory, who owns what part 
of which rai. These shares of a rai are used only for some specialized 
transaction (important social transactions, such as marriage, 
inheritance , political 
deals, sign of an alliance, ransom 
 of the battle dead, etc,). In Yap 
society you CAN'T use ordinary money for those social transactions, nor 
can you buy a share of a rai for ordinary money.


Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] Project and Design Documentation

https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2024-September/112961.html
sunfish62 wrote:
> As I understand it, the developers focus on entries in bugzilla (
bugs.gnucash.org) to address problems and proposals. It is better advice to
suggest that users with specific suggestions for improvement submit
requests for enhancement (RFEs) there.

https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Project_and_Design_Documentation is for
developers to inform users not users inform developers.


Regards
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Re: [GNC] Database storage

2024-09-20 Thread Jim DeLaHunt


Chris:

On 2024-09-20 06:32, Chris Miller via gnucash-user wrote:

Hi Jim,


Beware of confusion: the word "transaction" is already used on this list
to mean an "accounting record of an exchange of value". But I suspect
that here you use the word "transaction" to mean a "controlled and
reliable change to data stored in a database".

Yes. They are similar. Both represent "atomic" updates, meaning "all or 
nothing".


But your question, to which my paragraph above is a reply, was, "Are 
transactions implemented?" In the context of GnuCash, the difference 
between these two meanings of the word "transaction" matters a lot.


(And does the accounting meaning of "transaction" really contain the 
implication of "atomic"? I suspect not, but I am not an accountant.)



* Are transactions implemented? -- Let's assume, "Yes."

Let's assume, "No." (-: Apparently SQLite represent zero improvement over the 
flat file storage.

Is there a way to update backing store anytime I make a change, and not 
periodically? It seems like leaving updates lying around in memory is a good 
way to lose updates when the dog pulls the plug out of the wall.


Yes. The GnuCash application's "Save" toolbar button and menu item 
update backing store.


On 2024-09-20 07:29, Chris Miller wrote:
Oh! Do I understand the GnuCash parses the data and stores it in 
database tables? --- like one table for each account? Or are all the 
rows going to be the same with each row being an accounting 
transaction "acct 1 $X.XX acct 2 -$X.XX"? What about "splits"?


To learn about the database structure which GnuCash uses, here are some 
good places to start reading:


 * . Last updated April 2024, and
   may well be out of date in places, but also may well be helpful for
   the most part.
 * . Last updated
   October 2022. Same cautions apply.
 * .
   Part of the GnuCash source code related to database storage.

While we are at it, here are some FAQ entries relevant to this thread, 
which have not yet been cited:


"Q: Can I use GnuCash with multiple users? Maybe via the SQL backend? A: 
That depends on what you mean exactly.…"



"SQL Database. Q: Is there a database backend?…"


Might I suggest, as you explore the SQL structures you find in your 
GnuCash book database, you make corrections to parts of the Wiki pages 
which are wrong?  Help the next person who asks the same questions.


Best regards,
  —Jim DeLaHunt
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Re: [GNC] Australian Mutual Funds

2024-09-20 Thread Michael or Penny Novack via gnucash-user

The fund in question is under one entity (Australian Unity Healthcare
Property) but two different funds:

   - Australian Unity Healthcare Property Trust AUS0112AU
   - Australian Unity Health Care Property Trust Wholesale AUS0037AU

My Financial Advisor has stated that it is a managed fund not listed on the
ASX for trading, but by some fluke, I can see a result when I examine the
ASX (Australian Stock Exchange).


-- 
Thanks,


Megan in Sydney

On Sat, 21 Sept 2024 at 07:40, flywire  wrote:

> > an Australian Mutual Fund... It is a combination Fund with a primary
> focus on Property.
>
> Mutual fund is a very American term. Can you give an example fund? I
> assume you are referring to a managed fund that is not directly traded on
> the ASX, unlike an ETF (Exchange Traded Fund).
>
>
> Regards
>
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Re: [GNC] Database storage

2024-09-20 Thread Jim DeLaHunt


Chris:

On 2024-09-19 09:27, Chris Miller via gnucash-user wrote:

I had already come to the same conclusion. And I have also already posed 
questions to myself:

 * Does SQLite support transactions? -- Yes.
Beware of confusion: the word "transaction" is already used on this list 
to mean an "accounting record of an exchange of value". But I suspect 
that here you use the word "transaction" to mean a "controlled and 
reliable change to data stored in a database".

 * Are transactions implemented? -- Let's assume, "Yes."


I think you mean, does GnuCash store each "accounting record of an 
exchange of value" entry via a "controlled and reliable change to data 
stored in a database"?


What people who know GnuCash's use of data backends are trying to 
explain here is that the answer is "no".


If you have GnuCash set up to store data in a SQLite or PostgreSQL 
database, and you start the GnuCash program, GnuCash performs a few 
controlled and reliable reads of data stored in a database, to get all 
the information in the book into memory. Then when you tell GnuCash to 
store a single "accounting record of an exchange of value" entry, 
GnuCash updates the data it has in memory. In simple terms, it does not 
make any change to data stored in the database at that moment.  When you 
tell GnuCash to save the book, then it makes a few controlled and 
reliable changes to data stored in a database so that the information in 
memory is stored in the database.


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Re: [GNC] Database storage

2024-09-20 Thread Robert Heller

At Fri, 20 Sep 2024 06:32:13 -0700 (PDT) Chris Miller  wrote:

> 
> Hi Jim, 
> 
> > Beware of confusion: the word "transaction" is already used on this list
> > to mean an "accounting record of an exchange of value". But I suspect
> > that here you use the word "transaction" to mean a "controlled and
> > reliable change to data stored in a database".
> Yes. They are similar. Both represent "atomic" updates, meaning "all or 
> nothing". 
> 
> >> * Are transactions implemented? -- Let's assume, "Yes."

> Let's assume, "No." (-: Apparently SQLite represent zero improvement over
> the flat file storage. 

One thing that all of the *SQL backends do provide over the flat XML file
storage: accessing the data (*read-only!*) between runs of GnuCash is easier.
Instead of either trying to parse the XML or using Python bindings to the
GnuCash API, one can write code using SQL (in any language that supports SQL)
to grab data to generate reports, etc. outside of the GnuCash framework. I
believe at least one person on this list does exactly that.

I don't know if updating the database is possible without causing GnuCash to 
have a fit when next run.  Possibly yes, but...

> 
> Is there a way to update backing store anytime I make a change, and not
> periodically? It seems like leaving updates lying around in memory is a good
> way to lose updates when the dog pulls the plug out of the wall. 

GnuCash has some sort of journaling feature so that "crashes" can be recovered
from.

> 
> Thanks for the help, 

-- 
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
hel...@deepsoft.com   -- Webhosting Services

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Re: [GNC] dollar signs in reports


On 9/19/2024 8:17 PM, Murugan Mariappan wrote:

You cannot remove the sign altogether.  Can you explain the use case


The main legitimate reason would be the accounting unit is not any 
generally accepted "currency" but some special unit. Nor a commodity, 
because by rules, not allowed to be exchanged for any real currency.


EXAMPLES

a) Some local "currency" like "Ithaca Hours" (look up)

b) The money of some fantasy game.

You might not be able to eliminate WITHIN gnucash but you could 
certainly export and then edit that replacing all "$" with " "


Michael D Novack


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[GNC] TXF

Hi Folks, 

Does GnuCash export data in TXF format for inclusion in tax preparation 
software? This would require that I could label accounts according to their IRS 
form and form line number. 

Thanks for the help, 
-- 
Chris. 

V:916.799.9461 
F:916.974.0428 
A: Because we read from top to bottom, left to right.
Q: > Why should I start my reply below the quoted text? 
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Re: [GNC] Australian Mutual Funds

2024-09-20 Thread John Ralls

You must first create the commodity in Tools>Security Editor.

Regards,
John Ralls

> On Sep 20, 2024, at 03:16, Megan Tilley  wrote:
> 
> Hi, I'm trying to create an Australian Mutual Fund entry for my
> investments.
> 
> It is a combination Fund with a primary focus on Property.
> 
> When I create the Mutual Fund under my Broker Parent Account, I keep
> getting asked for a "Commodity" but I can not find where to input that,
> which would be  my "Property" component.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Megan In Sydney Australia
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Re: [GNC] Australian Mutual Funds