[GNC] How to record 'balancing' trnsactions?

[Chris Green]

This is as much an accounting question as a GnuCash one but how one
does this depends on the sofware's capabilities so it makes sense
to ask here.

Our church has two main accounts (as in places where money is kept), a
current account at a bank, and a 'building fund' kept in a building
society savings account.

I run two separate instances of GnuCash, one for the current account
and one for the building fund.  Both of these are run on a 'cash
accounting' basis so the balances in GnuCash exactly match the
statements from the bank and building society.


I need to have a way to record payments that go 'through' the current
account but which are actually building fund transactions.  For
example if we have a fund raising event the cash has to go into the
current account (can't pay cash direct into the savings account) and
similarly in the opposite direction we often pay building maintenance
costs with a cheque from the current account and need to transfer
money to cover that from the building fund.


Thus, every so often (say monthly) I will need to do a sum that works
out the amount owed either way and do an on-line transfer one way or
the other.  What sort of expense/income should this be and how do I
record which transactions (already recorded) it balances out?


For example we might have 'income' into the current account as
follows:- 
Scarfe Trust for roof   750.00
Talk and Tea collection 205.00
Tea concert 410.00
Carol singing35.00

Then I need to make an 'expenses' payment out of the current account
to the building fund of 1400.00 but it needs somehow to reference the
above income to show where the amount came from.

Has anyone any experience or ideas of how to manage this?

-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] How to record 'balancing' trnsactions?

[Paul Feakins]

Why would you have 2 separate instances of GnuCash rather than simply 2 
Asset accounts?


On 12/07/2023 13:12, Chris Green wrote:

This is as much an accounting question as a GnuCash one but how one
does this depends on the sofware's capabilities so it makes sense
to ask here.

Our church has two main accounts (as in places where money is kept), a
current account at a bank, and a 'building fund' kept in a building
society savings account.

I run two separate instances of GnuCash, one for the current account
and one for the building fund.  Both of these are run on a 'cash
accounting' basis so the balances in GnuCash exactly match the
statements from the bank and building society.


I need to have a way to record payments that go 'through' the current
account but which are actually building fund transactions.  For
example if we have a fund raising event the cash has to go into the
current account (can't pay cash direct into the savings account) and
similarly in the opposite direction we often pay building maintenance
costs with a cheque from the current account and need to transfer
money to cover that from the building fund.


Thus, every so often (say monthly) I will need to do a sum that works
out the amount owed either way and do an on-line transfer one way or
the other.  What sort of expense/income should this be and how do I
record which transactions (already recorded) it balances out?


For example we might have 'income' into the current account as
follows:-
 Scarfe Trust for roof   750.00
 Talk and Tea collection 205.00
 Tea concert 410.00
 Carol singing35.00

Then I need to make an 'expenses' payment out of the current account
to the building fund of 1400.00 but it needs somehow to reference the
above income to show where the amount came from.

Has anyone any experience or ideas of how to manage this?


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Re: [GNC] How to record 'balancing' trnsactions?

[Stan Brown]

On 2023-07-12 05:19, Paul Feakins wrote:
> Why would you have 2 separate instances of GnuCash rather than simply 2
> Asset accounts?

What he said.

And I'll just add that when you have two independent sets of books,
sooner or later they're going to fall out of sync through human error,
and then you'll have a bigger mess.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] How to record 'balancing' trnsactions?

[Paul Feakins]

On 12/07/2023 15:44, Stan Brown wrote:

On 2023-07-12 05:19, Paul Feakins wrote:

Why would you have 2 separate instances of GnuCash rather than simply 2
Asset accounts?

What he said.

And I'll just add that when you have two independent sets of books,
sooner or later they're going to fall out of sync through human error,
and then you'll have a bigger mess.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com


Indeed. Plus the asker didn't copy in the list but replied to me 
directly asking "Why not?"


I replied with:

Because the Church is one entity and it owns both accounts?

Because GnuCash is designed to handle multiple Asset accounts?

Because opening 2 instances is more complicated than opening just one?

Because a transfer from one account to the other would be easier in the 
same instance?


Paul Feakins

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Re: [GNC] How to record 'balancing' trnsactions?

[Chris Green]

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 03:51:53PM +0100, Paul Feakins wrote:
> On 12/07/2023 15:44, Stan Brown wrote:
> > On 2023-07-12 05:19, Paul Feakins wrote:
> >> Why would you have 2 separate instances of GnuCash rather than simply 2
> >> Asset accounts?
> > What he said.
> >
> > And I'll just add that when you have two independent sets of books,
> > sooner or later they're going to fall out of sync through human error,
> > and then you'll have a bigger mess.
> >
> > Stan Brown
> > Tehachapi, CA, USA
> > https://BrownMath.com
> 
> Indeed. Plus the asker didn't copy in the list but replied to me 
> directly asking "Why not?"
> 
> I replied with:
> 
> Because the Church is one entity and it owns both accounts?
> 
> Because GnuCash is designed to handle multiple Asset accounts?
> 
> Because opening 2 instances is more complicated than opening just one?
> 
> Because a transfer from one account to the other would be easier in the 
> same instance?
> 
Because you E-Mailed me directly!

Thanks for all the help everbody!

-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] How to record 'balancing' trnsactions?

[Paul Feakins]

On 12/07/2023 16:35, Chris Green wrote:

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 03:51:53PM +0100, Paul Feakins wrote:

On 12/07/2023 15:44, Stan Brown wrote:

On 2023-07-12 05:19, Paul Feakins wrote:

Why would you have 2 separate instances of GnuCash rather than simply 2
Asset accounts?

What he said.

And I'll just add that when you have two independent sets of books,
sooner or later they're going to fall out of sync through human error,
and then you'll have a bigger mess.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com

Indeed. Plus the asker didn't copy in the list but replied to me
directly asking "Why not?"

I replied with:

Because the Church is one entity and it owns both accounts?

Because GnuCash is designed to handle multiple Asset accounts?

Because opening 2 instances is more complicated than opening just one?

Because a transfer from one account to the other would be easier in the
same instance?


Because you E-Mailed me directly!

Thanks for all the help everbody!


Nope, I replied to the list, gnucash-user@gnucash.org, as one should.

Anyway, using an instance of GnuCash per bank account is not an intended 
use case.


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Re: [GNC] Equity Account "problem"

[Default User]

On Tue, 2023-07-11 at 16:05 -0700, Stan Brown wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Stan Brown
> > Tehachapi, CA, USA
> > https://BrownMath.com
> > 
> > On 2023-07-11 15:48, Default User wrote:
> > > > Is there a way to have Gnucash 4.13 (Debian GNU/Linux 12
> > > > Bookworm)
> > > > automatically calculate, and update "Equity" in the main
> > > > accounts
> > > > tab,
> > > > to show the "real" value of total Equity, after any action (or
> > > > at
> > > > least
> > > > transaction) that would affect "real" equity?  
> > 
> > Not in Accounts -- Equity accounts get updated only if you enter
> > transactions to do that, or if you close the books.
> > 
> > But see below for a different approach that will give you what you
> > want.
> > 
> > > > But now, enter a transaction such as Expenses:Auto:Fuel
> > > > (increase
> > > > by
> > > > $5.00), paid by transfer from Assets:Cash in Wallet (decrease
> > > > by
> > > > $5.00). 
> > > > 
> > > > So now: 
> > > > Assets = $5.00 
> > > > Liabilities = $0.00 
> > > > Equity = $10.00
> > > > 
> > > > So . . .  if Assets - Liabilities = Equity, then 
> > 
> > Not quite.
> > 
> > Assets - Liabilities = Equity + (Income - Expenses)
> > 
> > In your example, $5 - $0 = $10 + ($0 - $5)
> > 
> > It's not instantaneous, but an easy way to get very close to what
> > you
> > want is to run a balance sheet report. That shows assets,
> > liabilities,
> > and equity, but a generated item "Retained Earnings" under equity
> > that
> > equals total income minus total expenses. This gives you the sort
> > of
> > balance you're looking for.
> > ___
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Hi, Stan.

First, "full disclosure". I am not an accountant or even a bookkeeper.
So I do not presume to be conversant with the details of standard
double-entry bookkeeping. 

That being said, I understand that the fundamental accounting equation
is, of course:

Assets - Liabilities = Equity

and that (one) expanded version of the fundamental accounting equation
is, of course:

Assets - Liabilities = Equity + (Income - Expenses).

Now, by default, GnuCash seems to adhere to Assets - Liabilities =
Equity. 

But unless and until the books are "closed", it seems to completely
disregard Assets - Liabilities = Equity + (Income - Expenses), to the
extent that Equity would consist of only entries in the Equity:Opening
Balances sub-account (at least until closing time, when Income and
Expenses are "transferred into" Equity, and thus the Income and Expense
accounts are "zeroed out"). At this point, it would seem that Assets -
Liabilities would then "really" equal Equity.

As you said:
"Equity accounts get updated only if you enter
transactions to do that, or if you close the books."

I could set up two sub-accounts under Equity, such as:
Equity:Transfers form Expense Accounts
Equity:Transfers from Income Accounts
and manually enter transactions to transfer the balances from the
Expenses and Income accounts, respectively. 

Or, I could manually make said transfers directly to the Equity
account, but the Equity account would then seem to become very
cluttered, very fast. 

Or, I could just "close the books" temporarily, to see the "real"
equity amount in Equity, then immediately un-close the books, so as to
not upset the reporting functions.

All of these approaches seem a little clunky.  But the big problem is
that any such manual approach would probably become ridiculously
tedious, very quickly.

If there is no way to get GnuCash to do this automatically, then it 
seems that the only way to get the "real" equity at any arbitrarily 
chosen moment in time is to use the built-in Income Statement report. 

So, why not just run reports as needed?  I can only try to explain by
saying that: 

1) For me, when I am using the ledger accounts as presented in the main
accounts window, suddenly popping up a report tab is visually and
mentally "jarring". The text size and fonts are quite different, as is
the structure and organization of the reports.

2) Perhaps worse, whenever I am using the account ledgers, I have
reserve some of my limited mental capacity to always keep in mind that
there, Gnucash is saying that Assets - Liabilities = Equity, not Assets
- Liabilities = Equity + (Income - Expenses). Please don't snicker or
laugh - the older you get, the more you will understand that mental
capacity is not unlimited, and does inevitably decrease over time. 

Note: it does occur to me that I might be able to re-arrange the
account tree structure so that Expenses and Income, and their sub-
accounts, could be made sub-accounts of Equity, such as:
Equity:Expenses: ...
Equity:Income: ...
This way, Equity would seem to always be "up to dat

Re: [GNC] Equity Account "problem"

[Default User]

On Tue, 2023-07-11 at 16:05 -0700, Stan Brown wrote:
> 
> 
> Stan Brown
> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> https://BrownMath.com
> 
> On 2023-07-11 15:48, Default User wrote:
> > Is there a way to have Gnucash 4.13 (Debian GNU/Linux 12 Bookworm)
> > automatically calculate, and update "Equity" in the main accounts
> > tab,
> > to show the "real" value of total Equity, after any action (or at
> > least
> > transaction) that would affect "real" equity?  
> 
> Not in Accounts -- Equity accounts get updated only if you enter
> transactions to do that, or if you close the books.
> 
> But see below for a different approach that will give you what you
> want.
> 
> > But now, enter a transaction such as Expenses:Auto:Fuel (increase
> > by
> > $5.00), paid by transfer from Assets:Cash in Wallet (decrease by
> > $5.00). 
> > 
> > So now: 
> > Assets = $5.00 
> > Liabilities = $0.00 
> > Equity = $10.00
> > 
> > So . . .  if Assets - Liabilities = Equity, then 
> 
> Not quite.
> 
> Assets - Liabilities = Equity + (Income - Expenses)
> 
> In your example, $5 - $0 = $10 + ($0 - $5)
> 
> It's not instantaneous, but an easy way to get very close to what you
> want is to run a balance sheet report. That shows assets,
> liabilities,
> and equity, but a generated item "Retained Earnings" under equity
> that
> equals total income minus total expenses. This gives you the sort of
> balance you're looking for.
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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Hi, Stan!

I forgot that you did mention ' a generated item "Retained Earnings"
under equity that equals total income minus total expenses'.  I will
have to check out Retained Earnings.  Is that "generated item"
something that is generated automatically or manually? But either way,
if that has to be constantly updated manually, then that also does not
seem like it would be a viable solution. But thanks for the suggestion.

Addendum: in my previous reply, I noted the "jarring" effect of how the
reports are presented.  Please let me add that in addition to the use
of black text, blue text, and even red text adds to the jarring effect,
especially having it display against a blaring, bright white
background.  Quite a contrast to the more soothing muted gold and green
against a gray background presented by the individual ledger tabs! 

Also, I acknowledge that someone might say, "You seem to be obsessed
with the concept of Equity".  Well . . .  YES, I AM!

To me Equity (Net Worth) is heart and soul of virtually every economic
activity.  It is what everything else leads up to.  As the saying goes,
"The bottom line IS the bottom line!"  Equity (Net Worth) IS the bottom
line.  It is what every economic entity lives for, hopes for, works,
eats, sleeps, breathes, and dreams for.  Compared to Equity (Net
Worth), perhaps nothing else really matters.

Yes, I think Equity is that important.  And I would hope that it would
be treated as such in accounting.  

But, maybe that's just me . . . 

Finally, I made an error. I said: " . . . the only way to get the
"real" equity at any arbitrarily chosen moment in time is to use the
built-in Income Statement report."  I meant to say: " . . . the only
way to get the "real" equity at any arbitrarily chosen moment in time
is to use the built-in Balance Sheet report."  I apologize for the
error. 

Thank you for your consideration!

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Re: [GNC] How to record 'balancing' trnsactions?

[Chris Green]

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 04:41:27PM +0100, Paul Feakins wrote:
> On 12/07/2023 16:35, Chris Green wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 03:51:53PM +0100, Paul Feakins wrote:
> >> On 12/07/2023 15:44, Stan Brown wrote:
> >>> On 2023-07-12 05:19, Paul Feakins wrote:
>  Why would you have 2 separate instances of GnuCash rather than simply 2
>  Asset accounts?
> >>> What he said.
> >>>
> >>> And I'll just add that when you have two independent sets of books,
> >>> sooner or later they're going to fall out of sync through human error,
> >>> and then you'll have a bigger mess.
> >>>
> >>> Stan Brown
> >>> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> >>> https://BrownMath.com
> >> Indeed. Plus the asker didn't copy in the list but replied to me
> >> directly asking "Why not?"
> >>
> >> I replied with:
> >>
> >> Because the Church is one entity and it owns both accounts?
> >>
> >> Because GnuCash is designed to handle multiple Asset accounts?
> >>
> >> Because opening 2 instances is more complicated than opening just one?
> >>
> >> Because a transfer from one account to the other would be easier in the
> >> same instance?
> >>
> > Because you E-Mailed me directly!
> >
> > Thanks for all the help everbody!
> 
> Nope, I replied to the list, gnucash-user@gnucash.org, as one should.
> 
Here's the headers:-

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2023 14:25:33 +0100
From mairix@mairix Mon Jan  1 12:34:56 1970
From: Paul Feakins 
To: Chris Green 
Subject: Re: How to record 'balancing' trnsactions?
X-source-folder: 
/home/chris/mail/In/inbox/cur/1689168337.M577883P1473824Q1.esprimo:2,S

-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] Equity Account "problem"

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 7/11/2023 6:48 PM, Default User wrote:

Hi!

Is there a way to have Gnucash 4.13 (Debian GNU/Linux 12 Bookworm)
automatically calculate, and update "Equity" in the main accounts tab,
to show the "real" value of total Equity, after any action (or at least
transaction) that would affect "real" equity?

Example:
Start with the GnuCash "Common Accounts", as in gcashdata_1.gnucash
from the Tutorial and Concepts Guide, with all accounts set to $0.00.


Stop -- I understand your example. Your problem is that you do not 
understand what accounts of type "income" and "expense" are. They are in 
fact, "temporary" accounts of fundamental type "equity". They are being 
kept separate so that they may be viewed. It is the "close the books" 
operation that would close them out to equity.


Look at a Balance Sheet report. Do you see a "retained earnings" of 
"retained losses". Those aren't accounts but the net of all income and 
expense accounts whose balances have not been transferred to equity (by 
a close the books). So if you want to see your actual equity, you can 
run this report and add/subtract. Or of course, do a "close the books" 
<< trust me, you probably won't ever bother* >>


History -- In the early days of double entry bookkeeping there were no 
income/expense accounts and income or expense transactions WERE written 
to equity. That meant you could immediately see "what is my equity 
today?" but would have to look through the journal to answer a question 
like :how many ducats of interest did we get last month?". That's how 
the temporary accounts of type income and expense came about.


But more important, why do you want to know instantaneous equity? Having 
lots of equity, having increasing equity, might not save you if having a 
"cash flow" problem. In other words, lots of things determine economic 
well being.



Michael D Novack

* Not bother because gnucash can produce the report you would get during 
a traditional "close the books" without closing the books.


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Re: [GNC] How to record 'balancing' trnsactions?

[Chris Green]

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 02:25:33PM +0100, Paul Feakins wrote:
> On 12/07/2023 13:55, Chris Green wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 01:19:41PM +0100, Paul Feakins wrote:
> >> Why would you have 2 separate instances of GnuCash rather than simply 2
> >> Asset accounts?
> >>
> > Why not?  :-)
> >
> > I see no advantage in having everything in one.
>
> Because the Church is one entity and it owns both accounts?
>
That's not an advantage.


> Because GnuCash is designed to handle multiple Asset accounts?
>
That's not an advantage.


> Because opening 2 instances is more complicated than opening just one?
>
That might be regarded as an advantage but I don't see it really.
Having separate instances means that I know which transactons go
where. If I'm using the current account gnucash then only bank
transactions go there. Same for the other.


> Because a transfer from one account to the other would be easier in the
> same instance?
>
Why?

-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] How to record 'balancing' trnsactions?

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 7/12/2023 8:12 AM, Chris Green wrote:

This is as much an accounting question as a GnuCash one but how one
does this depends on the sofware's capabilities so it makes sense
to ask here.

Our church has two main accounts (as in places where money is kept), a
current account at a bank, and a 'building fund' kept in a building
society savings account.

I run two separate instances of GnuCash, one for the current account
and one for the building fund.  Both of these are run on a 'cash
accounting' basis so the balances in GnuCash exactly match the
statements from the bank and building society.


Let's assume that there is a good reason to have separate books << I can 
think of a number* -- keep in mind that I was treasurer of several 
organizations >> In other words, there might be no good reason for this 
church but might for another.


a) Yes, there can be errors going between the books. So you want to 
minimize the number of between the books transactions. See if there 
could be a transfer only of "net" every so often


b) You will need to use some thought for the accounts you will want to 
contain parts of transactions that pertain to the other entity.



Michael D Novack



* For example, a quasi independent org/fund is legally under a parent 
501(3)3. The treasurer of the org/fund has to report certain things to 
the treasurer of the 501(c)3 and there may actually also be money 
transferred between them (they may be collecting money on each other's 
behalf and making payments on each other's behalf. But do you not see 
that no matter how many such transactions in a month need only one money 
transfer between them and one report per month (assuming getting things 
right between these entities once a month)



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Re: [GNC] How to record 'balancing' trnsactions?

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 7/12/2023 4:45 PM, Chris Green wrote:

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 02:25:33PM +0100, Paul Feakins wrote:

On 12/07/2023 13:55, Chris Green wrote:

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 01:19:41PM +0100, Paul Feakins wrote:

Why would you have 2 separate instances of GnuCash rather than simply 2
Asset accounts?


Why not?  :-)

Chris, helping you MIGHT well include questioning why you have two 
instances. Like I said, I have done this so know some of the good reasons.


The folks trying to help by saying you should only have one set of books 
are correct, simpler, easier. IF YOU CAN. For example, is your building 
committee only allowed to see building fund transactions?  Your board 
not allowed to see how building fund invested? Those WOULD be reasons 
for separate books in spite of the extra work entailed.


Just because you can not a good enough reason unless you are an 
experienced enough bookkeeper not to need "how" help. Understand? I help 
non-profits and would help you with the "how" IF NEEDED. So you'd have 
to convince me you need two sets of books.


Michael D Novack

PS -- Most orgs of your sort have the reverse problem, several distinct 
"restricted" funds with the money kept in just one bank account (not a 
separate account for each as a large org might have) or even in the 
operational account (and of course all checks/deposits to the 
operational account)



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Re: [GNC] How to record 'balancing' trnsactions?

[Chris Green]

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 04:56:23PM -0400, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:
> On 7/12/2023 8:12 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> > This is as much an accounting question as a GnuCash one but how one
> > does this depends on the sofware's capabilities so it makes sense
> > to ask here.
> >
> > Our church has two main accounts (as in places where money is kept), a
> > current account at a bank, and a 'building fund' kept in a building
> > society savings account.
> >
> > I run two separate instances of GnuCash, one for the current account
> > and one for the building fund.  Both of these are run on a 'cash
> > accounting' basis so the balances in GnuCash exactly match the
> > statements from the bank and building society.
> 
> Let's assume that there is a good reason to have separate books << I can 
> think of a number* -- keep in mind that I was treasurer of several 
> organizations >> In other words, there might be no good reason for this 
> church but might for another.
> 
> a) Yes, there can be errors going between the books. So you want to 
> minimize the number of between the books transactions. See if there 
> could be a transfer only of "net" every so often
> 
> b) You will need to use some thought for the accounts you will want to 
> contain parts of transactions that pertain to the other entity.
> 
> 
> Michael D Novack
> 
> 
> 
> * For example, a quasi independent org/fund is legally under a parent 
> 501(3)3. The treasurer of the org/fund has to report certain things to 
> the treasurer of the 501(c)3 and there may actually also be money 
> transferred between them (they may be collecting money on each other's 
> behalf and making payments on each other's behalf. But do you not see 
> that no matter how many such transactions in a month need only one money 
> transfer between them and one report per month (assuming getting things 
> right between these entities once a month)
> 
Thank you, you have described the issue exactly! :-)

It's your b) that prompted me to ask the question, do you (or anyone)
have any good insights into how to handle this?  Whether or not this
is done with only one GnuCash instance or with two the difficulty is
still there as I see it.

-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] Equity Account "problem"

[Default User]

On Wed, 2023-07-12 at 10:21 +1000, David Cousens wrote:
> The calculation of Equity is automatic and built into double entry
> accounting
> system. This is the purpose to a large extent of the two or more
> entries
> (referred to as splits in GnuCash documentation) associated with a
> single
> transaction. Income and Expenses are Equity accounts that are split
> off from
> equity with the primary purpose of measuring the short term loss or
> gain over a
> specific period and you will notice if you look through the examples
> in the
> GnuCash Help Manual and Tutorial Guide that most transactions involve
> one split
> to an asset or liability account and another to either an Income or
> Expense
> account except where the transaction is regarded as a capital
> purchase which
> will produce income over more than a single accounting period
> (usually annually
> but can be semi annually or monthly). 
> 
> It can be circumvented by not following the recommended procedures.
> First you
> need to understand the double entry accounting system basics and then
> GnuCash's
> implementation of it.There are on line resources on double entry if
> the
> introduction in the gude and help manual is too brief for your needs.
> 
> David Cousens
> 
>  
> On Tue, 2023-07-11 at 18:48 -0400, Default User wrote:
> > Hi! 
> > 
> > Is there a way to have Gnucash 4.13 (Debian GNU/Linux 12 Bookworm)
> > automatically calculate, and update "Equity" in the main accounts
> > tab,
> > to show the "real" value of total Equity, after any action (or at
> > least
> > transaction) that would affect "real" equity?  
> > 
> > Example: 
> > Start with the GnuCash "Common Accounts", as in gcashdata_1.gnucash
> > from the Tutorial and Concepts Guide, with all accounts set to
> > $0.00.
> > 
> > Now make a transaction so that Equity:Opening Balances starts with
> > $10.00, and Assets:Current Assets:Cash in Wallet starts with
> > $10.00. 
> > At this point, Equity = $10.00.  All good so far.
> > 
> > But now, enter a transaction such as Expenses:Auto:Fuel (increase
> > by
> > $5.00), paid by transfer from Assets:Cash in Wallet (decrease by
> > $5.00). 
> > 
> > So now: 
> > Assets = $5.00 
> > Liabilities = $0.00 
> > Equity = $10.00
> > 
> > So . . .  if Assets - Liabilities = Equity, then 
> > $5.00 - $0.00 = $10.00? 
> > 
> > Thus, Equity does not seem to include the $5.00 Expense
> > transaction. 
> > [Note: of course, the Balance Sheet in Reports does correctly show
> > Equity as $5.00.]
> > 
> > I assume that GnuCash has always been this way, from the beginning,
> > and
> > is not likely to change now!  
> > 
> > But is there a viable "workaround"?  I am pretty sure I understand
> > what
> > is going on, and maybe why it was done that way (so that the
> > account
> > ledger tabs show legitimate transactions" only?) 
> > 
> > But it does bother my sense of "correctness".
> > 
> > [Note: I did see somewhere online a link to a web page that may
> > have at
> > one time shown the desired solution, but the web page has since
> > been
> > 404'd.]
> > 
> > : (
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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Hi, David!

Thank you for your reply.  Especially the suggestion to "read up" on
double-entry accounting.  In that regard, I am reminded of the ancient
Greek or Roman commentator who said (approximately):

"Much study is a great weariness, and of writing books there is no
end". 

Anyway, may I just say by way of explanation, that I think the
fundamental basis of my frustration is that the definition of Equity
seems to be inconsistent and even contradictory. 

It seems that one can say: 
Assets - liabilities = Equity

But in the next breath, they can say:
Assets - liabilities = Equity + (Income - Expenses)

Well, which is it?  Does Equity include (Income - Expenses) or not?

The cognitive dissonance here is astounding!  

It would seem to me that the only times [Assets - liabilities = Equity]
and [Assets - liabilities = Equity + (Income - Expenses)] are in
synchronization are when Equity consists of, perhaps, only the opening
balances of its component accounts, OR when the balances of Expense and
Income accounts are at some specific point in time, transferred to
Equity, in which case both definitions of Equity are true.

May I suggest that such transfers are usually only done, say, ever

Re: [GNC] How to record 'balancing' trnsactions?

[Vincent Dawans]

Leaving aside the why you need 2 sets of books, I'll just focus on the how.

First you need to decide if the money in and money out really needs to be
classified as income and expenses in your first set if books (the main bank
account) or can more simply be treated fully as pass-through. If fully
pass-through, then the following...

*For example we might have 'income' into the current account as*
*follows:-*
*Scarfe Trust for roof   750.00*
*Talk and Tea collection 205.00*
*Tea concert 410.00*
*Carol singing35.00*

Is not recorded as income in your main book but instead as a liability
towards the building fund. So you create a building fund account under
liability and when your receive money for the building fund you debit your
bank account and credit that liability account. Then when you are ready to
write a check for the building fund, you look at the balance in that little
account and write the check for that amount. When the check is cashed it
will come as a credit on your bank account and a debit on the liability
account. That liability account becomes a sort of running ledger you can
provide showing money collected then transferred to the building fund over
time.

On the building fund side, you can either book the money coming in as
income directly on the date received from the main account, or if you want
the detail of all the original transactions, then create a receivable
account under assets with the same detailed transactions from the other
side booked against income, then that gets zeroed when the check is
deposited.

The opposite movements then are made for payments from the building fund to
the main accounts of needed.

Sincerely,

Vincent Dawans


On Wed, Jul 12, 2023, 14:14 Chris Green  wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 04:56:23PM -0400, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:
> > On 7/12/2023 8:12 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> > > This is as much an accounting question as a GnuCash one but how one
> > > does this depends on the sofware's capabilities so it makes sense
> > > to ask here.
> > >
> > > Our church has two main accounts (as in places where money is kept), a
> > > current account at a bank, and a 'building fund' kept in a building
> > > society savings account.
> > >
> > > I run two separate instances of GnuCash, one for the current account
> > > and one for the building fund.  Both of these are run on a 'cash
> > > accounting' basis so the balances in GnuCash exactly match the
> > > statements from the bank and building society.
> >
> > Let's assume that there is a good reason to have separate books << I can
> > think of a number* -- keep in mind that I was treasurer of several
> > organizations >> In other words, there might be no good reason for this
> > church but might for another.
> >
> > a) Yes, there can be errors going between the books. So you want to
> > minimize the number of between the books transactions. See if there
> > could be a transfer only of "net" every so often
> >
> > b) You will need to use some thought for the accounts you will want to
> > contain parts of transactions that pertain to the other entity.
> >
> >
> > Michael D Novack
> >
> >
> >
> > * For example, a quasi independent org/fund is legally under a parent
> > 501(3)3. The treasurer of the org/fund has to report certain things to
> > the treasurer of the 501(c)3 and there may actually also be money
> > transferred between them (they may be collecting money on each other's
> > behalf and making payments on each other's behalf. But do you not see
> > that no matter how many such transactions in a month need only one money
> > transfer between them and one report per month (assuming getting things
> > right between these entities once a month)
> >
> Thank you, you have described the issue exactly! :-)
>
> It's your b) that prompted me to ask the question, do you (or anyone)
> have any good insights into how to handle this?  Whether or not this
> is done with only one GnuCash instance or with two the difficulty is
> still there as I see it.
>
> --
> Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] How to record 'balancing' trnsactions?

[David Cousens]

Chris,

The normal transaction when you receive funds into an account set of books will
be an increase in an Income revenue account (credit) and a debit to a bank
(asset) account. When you withdraw the funds to transfer them to the other set
of books you have to reverse both these transaction (suitable annotated) and
then make corresponding entries to receive the funds in the set of books which
holds the account you are transferring it to.

To make it clear I would create an  Income/Revenue sub account against which to
record the funds received which are to be transferred to the other account in
the other set of books.  When you receive the funds you credit this account and
debit the bank account. When you transfer the funds to the other account debit
the income account and credit the asset account. In the other set of books debit
the bank account and credit the appropriate Income/revenue account in that
second set of books. 

This also gives some record that you have transferred all the appropriate funds
to the other set of accounts as the balance of that Interest sub account should
be zero. Another alternative would be to credit the main Income account when
receiving the funds and have a sub account which is a contra account (sub
account with only reversed entries) which you debit when you transfer the funds
to the second set of books with corresponding credit to the bank account.

You could also have a corresponding sub-account of the bank account which you
would debit on receiving the funds for the other set of books and credit on
transfer of the funds to the other set of books. GnuCash can reconcile an
account and its sub-accounts (an option in the reconciliation dialogue).

Main thing will be clear annotation of the corresponding transactions so their
purpose is clear.

The only other consideration will be any regulations for non-profits which may
affect how you can record such transactions. Only an accountant in your
jurisdiction can advise you. Anything here is of course generic and not adjusted
for any regulations you may need to follow.

David Cousens


On Wed, 2023-07-12 at 22:13 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 04:56:23PM -0400, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:
> > On 7/12/2023 8:12 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> > > This is as much an accounting question as a GnuCash one but how one
> > > does this depends on the sofware's capabilities so it makes sense
> > > to ask here.
> > > 
> > > Our church has two main accounts (as in places where money is kept), a
> > > current account at a bank, and a 'building fund' kept in a building
> > > society savings account.
> > > 
> > > I run two separate instances of GnuCash, one for the current account
> > > and one for the building fund.  Both of these are run on a 'cash
> > > accounting' basis so the balances in GnuCash exactly match the
> > > statements from the bank and building society.
> > 
> > Let's assume that there is a good reason to have separate books << I can 
> > think of a number* -- keep in mind that I was treasurer of several 
> > organizations >> In other words, there might be no good reason for this 
> > church but might for another.
> > 
> > a) Yes, there can be errors going between the books. So you want to 
> > minimize the number of between the books transactions. See if there 
> > could be a transfer only of "net" every so often
> > 
> > b) You will need to use some thought for the accounts you will want to 
> > contain parts of transactions that pertain to the other entity.
> > 
> > 
> > Michael D Novack
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > * For example, a quasi independent org/fund is legally under a parent 
> > 501(3)3. The treasurer of the org/fund has to report certain things to 
> > the treasurer of the 501(c)3 and there may actually also be money 
> > transferred between them (they may be collecting money on each other's 
> > behalf and making payments on each other's behalf. But do you not see 
> > that no matter how many such transactions in a month need only one money 
> > transfer between them and one report per month (assuming getting things 
> > right between these entities once a month)
> > 
> Thank you, you have described the issue exactly! :-)
> 
> It's your b) that prompted me to ask the question, do you (or anyone)
> have any good insights into how to handle this?  Whether or not this
> is done with only one GnuCash instance or with two the difficulty is
> still there as I see it.
> 

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Re: [GNC] Equity Account "problem"

[David Cousens]

The answer is unfortunately it is both. I think Michael has already explained
that Income and Expenses are actually temporary Equity accounts which are kept
separate so that the profit/loss and other parameters of interest in running a
business can be calculated over a shorter term either for management and/or tax
calculation purposes. To get the cuurent equity at any point mid period you
would use the balance of the Equity account + Income balance - Expense Balances
at that date. A standard Balance Sheet report should give you the Equity 
balance and a Income/Expensereport to the same date as the balance sheet to get
the relevant Income and Expense balances for the calculation.

If your programming skills are up to it, you could create a customized net worth
report .

David Cousens

On Wed, 2023-07-12 at 17:35 -0400, Default User wrote:
> On Wed, 2023-07-12 at 10:21 +1000, David Cousens wrote:
> > The calculation of Equity is automatic and built into double entry
> > accounting
> > system. This is the purpose to a large extent of the two or more
> > entries
> > (referred to as splits in GnuCash documentation) associated with a
> > single
> > transaction. Income and Expenses are Equity accounts that are split
> > off from
> > equity with the primary purpose of measuring the short term loss or
> > gain over a
> > specific period and you will notice if you look through the examples
> > in the
> > GnuCash Help Manual and Tutorial Guide that most transactions involve
> > one split
> > to an asset or liability account and another to either an Income or
> > Expense
> > account except where the transaction is regarded as a capital
> > purchase which
> > will produce income over more than a single accounting period
> > (usually annually
> > but can be semi annually or monthly). 
> > 
> > It can be circumvented by not following the recommended procedures.
> > First you
> > need to understand the double entry accounting system basics and then
> > GnuCash's
> > implementation of it.There are on line resources on double entry if
> > the
> > introduction in the gude and help manual is too brief for your needs.
> > 
> > David Cousens
> > 
> >  
> > On Tue, 2023-07-11 at 18:48 -0400, Default User wrote:
> > > Hi! 
> > > 
> > > Is there a way to have Gnucash 4.13 (Debian GNU/Linux 12 Bookworm)
> > > automatically calculate, and update "Equity" in the main accounts
> > > tab,
> > > to show the "real" value of total Equity, after any action (or at
> > > least
> > > transaction) that would affect "real" equity?  
> > > 
> > > Example: 
> > > Start with the GnuCash "Common Accounts", as in gcashdata_1.gnucash
> > > from the Tutorial and Concepts Guide, with all accounts set to
> > > $0.00.
> > > 
> > > Now make a transaction so that Equity:Opening Balances starts with
> > > $10.00, and Assets:Current Assets:Cash in Wallet starts with
> > > $10.00. 
> > > At this point, Equity = $10.00.  All good so far.
> > > 
> > > But now, enter a transaction such as Expenses:Auto:Fuel (increase
> > > by
> > > $5.00), paid by transfer from Assets:Cash in Wallet (decrease by
> > > $5.00). 
> > > 
> > > So now: 
> > > Assets = $5.00 
> > > Liabilities = $0.00 
> > > Equity = $10.00
> > > 
> > > So . . .  if Assets - Liabilities = Equity, then 
> > > $5.00 - $0.00 = $10.00? 
> > > 
> > > Thus, Equity does not seem to include the $5.00 Expense
> > > transaction. 
> > > [Note: of course, the Balance Sheet in Reports does correctly show
> > > Equity as $5.00.]
> > > 
> > > I assume that GnuCash has always been this way, from the beginning,
> > > and
> > > is not likely to change now!  
> > > 
> > > But is there a viable "workaround"?  I am pretty sure I understand
> > > what
> > > is going on, and maybe why it was done that way (so that the
> > > account
> > > ledger tabs show legitimate transactions" only?) 
> > > 
> > > But it does bother my sense of "correctness".
> > > 
> > > [Note: I did see somewhere online a link to a web page that may
> > > have at
> > > one time shown the desired solution, but the web page has since
> > > been
> > > 404'd.]
> > > 
> > > : (
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > gnucash-user mailing list
> > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > > -
> > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> > 
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> 
> 
> Hi, David!
> 
> Thank you for your reply.  Especially the suggestion to "read up" on
> double-entry accounting.  In that reg

[GNC] Unable to open GnuCash file: "No suitable backend was found for ."

[Tomer Altman]

Hi everyone,

Due to filesystem errors, I had to reinstall MacOS on my 2015 Macbook 
Air (current OS version: Monterey 12.6.7). After doing so, and restoring 
my files from a TimeMachine backup using Migration Assistant, I started 
getting this error when trying to open my accounting file:


"No suitable  backend was found for ."

(where "" is a stand-in for the actual file name)

I was at the time using a version of GnuCash from December 2022. I then 
reinstalled using the installer available from gnucash.org (current 
version: "5.3+(2023-06-26)" ). Unfortunately, the error persists.


Looking at this error message in the mailing list archives, it seems 
like this has something to do with using the SQLite back-end. I looked 
at the 'environment' text file, and it is implementing already the 
environment variable recommended as a fix:


GNC_DBD_DIR={SYS_LIB}/dbd

It seems like my install is still unable to find the libraries that it 
needs, though.


It's unclear to me how to diagnose which version of the back-end my file 
is using, since I cannot open it. Using 'file' and 'head' shows that it 
is not XML, and I am unable to decompress the file using Gzip. I'm also 
unable to open it using the sqlite3 command line tool.


So, two questions:

1. What's the correct way to verify the back-end type using something 
other than GnuCash itself?


2. What is wrong with my fresh install that is preventing me from 
opening up the file?


Thanks in advance for any and all advice and assistance!

Best regards,

~Tomer



--
Please do not send me sensitive information (e.g., passwords, personal details, 
financial/health information) via email, as it is not secure.
Please contact me to determine the best way to transfer sensitive information 
safely. Thank you!

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Re: [GNC] Equity Account "problem"

[Stan Brown]

On 2023-07-12 14:35, Default User wrote:
> Thank you for your reply.  Especially the suggestion to "read up" on
> double-entry accounting.  In that regard, I am reminded of the ancient
> Greek or Roman commentator who said (approximately):
> 
> "Much study is a great weariness, and of writing books there is no
> end". 
"There is no royal road to learning."
   --Euclid, addressing one of the Ptolemies

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] Equity Account "problem"

[Default User]

On Wed, 2023-07-12 at 16:38 -0400, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:
> On 7/11/2023 6:48 PM, Default User wrote:
> > Hi!
> > 
> > Is there a way to have Gnucash 4.13 (Debian GNU/Linux 12 Bookworm)
> > automatically calculate, and update "Equity" in the main accounts
> > tab,
> > to show the "real" value of total Equity, after any action (or at
> > least
> > transaction) that would affect "real" equity?
> > 
> > Example:
> > Start with the GnuCash "Common Accounts", as in gcashdata_1.gnucash
> > from the Tutorial and Concepts Guide, with all accounts set to
> > $0.00.
> 
> Stop -- I understand your example. Your problem is that you do not 
> understand what accounts of type "income" and "expense" are. They are
> in 
> fact, "temporary" accounts of fundamental type "equity". They are
> being 
> kept separate so that they may be viewed. It is the "close the books"
> operation that would close them out to equity.
> 
> Look at a Balance Sheet report. Do you see a "retained earnings" of 
> "retained losses". Those aren't accounts but the net of all income
> and 
> expense accounts whose balances have not been transferred to equity
> (by 
> a close the books). So if you want to see your actual equity, you can
> run this report and add/subtract. Or of course, do a "close the
> books" 
> << trust me, you probably won't ever bother* >>
> 
> History -- In the early days of double entry bookkeeping there were
> no 
> income/expense accounts and income or expense transactions WERE
> written 
> to equity. That meant you could immediately see "what is my equity 
> today?" but would have to look through the journal to answer a
> question 
> like :how many ducats of interest did we get last month?". That's how
> the temporary accounts of type income and expense came about.
> 
> But more important, why do you want to know instantaneous equity?
> Having 
> lots of equity, having increasing equity, might not save you if
> having a 
> "cash flow" problem. In other words, lots of things determine
> economic 
> well being.
> 
> 
> Michael D Novack
> 
> * Not bother because gnucash can produce the report you would get
> during 
> a traditional "close the books" without closing the books.
> 
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Hi, Michael!
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

Regarding:
'Your problem is that you do not understand what accounts of type
"income" and "expense" are. They are in fact, "temporary" accounts of
fundamental type "equity". They are being kept separate so that they
may be viewed. It is the "close the books" operation that would close
them out to equity.'  

I will freely admit that I do not fully understand the formal
definitions and usage of income and expense accounts.  Indeed, I am not
an accountant, or even a bookkeeper.  But I do think I know enough to
understand how closing the books includes transferring income and
equity balances (or at least "income - expenses") to equity.  

Regarding: 
'Do you see a "retained earnings" or "retained losses". Those aren't
accounts but the net of all income and expense accounts whose balances
have not been transferred to equity (by a close the books).'

So, "retained earnings" of "retained losses" would not be actual
accounts, with actual transactions, but instead just calculated sums
that appear in a Balance Sheet report?  

Perhaps that is similar to how I have always thought of equity - not as
an actual account, but (very simplified, of course) the result of the
calculated result of Assets - Liabilities. "Take what you own, subtract
what you owe. What's left is your net worth (equity)". 

Regarding:
'So if you want to see your actual equity, you can run [a Balance
Sheet] report and add/subtract. Or of course, do a "close the books"'

Yes, I know how to temporarily close the books using the GnuCash "Close
Book" tool, and then un-close the books. Or, as you said, better
(faster and easier), is to just run a balance sheet report.  Which is
what I will just continue to do. 

Regarding:
'History -- In the early days of double entry bookkeeping there were
no 
income/expense accounts and income or expense transactions WERE
written 
to equity. That meant you could immediately see "what is my equity 
today?" but would have to look through the journal to answer a
question 
like :how many ducats of interest did we get last month?". That's how
the temporary accounts of type income and expense came about.'

I did not know that.  I thought that equity was normally only
calculated at book closing time, as it would seem to be a chore to do
it frequently.  I got it wrong. I stand corrected.

Regarding:
'But more important, why do you want to know instantaneous equity?
Having lots 

Re: [GNC] Equity Account "problem"

[Default User]

On Thu, 2023-07-13 at 08:28 +1000, David Cousens wrote:
> The answer is unfortunately it is both. I think Michael has already
> explained
> that Income and Expenses are actually temporary Equity accounts which
> are kept
> separate so that the profit/loss and other parameters of interest in
> running a
> business can be calculated over a shorter term either for management
> and/or tax
> calculation purposes. To get the cuurent equity at any point mid
> period you
> would use the balance of the Equity account + Income balance -
> Expense Balances
> at that date. A standard Balance Sheet report should give you the
> Equity 
> balance and a Income/Expensereport to the same date as the balance
> sheet to get
> the relevant Income and Expense balances for the calculation.
> 
> If your programming skills are up to it, you could create a
> customized net worth
> report .
> 
> David Cousens
> 
> On Wed, 2023-07-12 at 17:35 -0400, Default User wrote:
> > On Wed, 2023-07-12 at 10:21 +1000, David Cousens wrote:
> > > The calculation of Equity is automatic and built into double
> > > entry
> > > accounting
> > > system. This is the purpose to a large extent of the two or more
> > > entries
> > > (referred to as splits in GnuCash documentation) associated with
> > > a
> > > single
> > > transaction. Income and Expenses are Equity accounts that are
> > > split
> > > off from
> > > equity with the primary purpose of measuring the short term loss
> > > or
> > > gain over a
> > > specific period and you will notice if you look through the
> > > examples
> > > in the
> > > GnuCash Help Manual and Tutorial Guide that most transactions
> > > involve
> > > one split
> > > to an asset or liability account and another to either an Income
> > > or
> > > Expense
> > > account except where the transaction is regarded as a capital
> > > purchase which
> > > will produce income over more than a single accounting period
> > > (usually annually
> > > but can be semi annually or monthly). 
> > > 
> > > It can be circumvented by not following the recommended
> > > procedures.
> > > First you
> > > need to understand the double entry accounting system basics and
> > > then
> > > GnuCash's
> > > implementation of it.There are on line resources on double entry
> > > if
> > > the
> > > introduction in the gude and help manual is too brief for your
> > > needs.
> > > 
> > > David Cousens
> > > 
> > >  
> > > On Tue, 2023-07-11 at 18:48 -0400, Default User wrote:
> > > > Hi! 
> > > > 
> > > > Is there a way to have Gnucash 4.13 (Debian GNU/Linux 12
> > > > Bookworm)
> > > > automatically calculate, and update "Equity" in the main
> > > > accounts
> > > > tab,
> > > > to show the "real" value of total Equity, after any action (or
> > > > at
> > > > least
> > > > transaction) that would affect "real" equity?  
> > > > 
> > > > Example: 
> > > > Start with the GnuCash "Common Accounts", as in
> > > > gcashdata_1.gnucash
> > > > from the Tutorial and Concepts Guide, with all accounts set to
> > > > $0.00.
> > > > 
> > > > Now make a transaction so that Equity:Opening Balances starts
> > > > with
> > > > $10.00, and Assets:Current Assets:Cash in Wallet starts with
> > > > $10.00. 
> > > > At this point, Equity = $10.00.  All good so far.
> > > > 
> > > > But now, enter a transaction such as Expenses:Auto:Fuel
> > > > (increase
> > > > by
> > > > $5.00), paid by transfer from Assets:Cash in Wallet (decrease
> > > > by
> > > > $5.00). 
> > > > 
> > > > So now: 
> > > > Assets = $5.00 
> > > > Liabilities = $0.00 
> > > > Equity = $10.00
> > > > 
> > > > So . . .  if Assets - Liabilities = Equity, then 
> > > > $5.00 - $0.00 = $10.00? 
> > > > 
> > > > Thus, Equity does not seem to include the $5.00 Expense
> > > > transaction. 
> > > > [Note: of course, the Balance Sheet in Reports does correctly
> > > > show
> > > > Equity as $5.00.]
> > > > 
> > > > I assume that GnuCash has always been this way, from the
> > > > beginning,
> > > > and
> > > > is not likely to change now!  
> > > > 
> > > > But is there a viable "workaround"?  I am pretty sure I
> > > > understand
> > > > what
> > > > is going on, and maybe why it was done that way (so that the
> > > > account
> > > > ledger tabs show legitimate transactions" only?) 
> > > > 
> > > > But it does bother my sense of "correctness".
> > > > 
> > > > [Note: I did see somewhere online a link to a web page that may
> > > > have at
> > > > one time shown the desired solution, but the web page has since
> > > > been
> > > > 404'd.]
> > > > 
> > > > : (
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ___
> > > > gnucash-user mailing list
> > > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > > > -
> > > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> > > 
> > > 

Re: [GNC] Equity Account "problem"

[Default User]

On Wed, 2023-07-12 at 16:46 -0700, Stan Brown wrote:
> On 2023-07-12 14:35, Default User wrote:
> > Thank you for your reply.  Especially the suggestion to "read up"
> > on
> > double-entry accounting.  In that regard, I am reminded of the
> > ancient
> > Greek or Roman commentator who said (approximately):
> > 
> > "Much study is a great weariness, and of writing books there is no
> > end". 
> "There is no royal road to learning."
>    --Euclid, addressing one of the Ptolemies
> 
> Stan Brown
> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> https://BrownMath.com
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Hi, Stan!

True.

In that regard, here is a bonus quote:

"Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason
why so few engage in it."
  -- Henry Ford

: )

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Re: [GNC] How to record 'balancing' trnsactions?

[David Carlson]

I would make a couple of suggestions about the physical challenge of
keeping more than one set of GnuCash books on a given computer.  Books can
be separated as you prefer,  possibly either by accounting groups or by
date intervals.

1. GnuCash is designed with some configuration features linked to a given
set of books, and some linked to the user.  Reports, for the most part, are
linked to the user, but can be configured (and titled) as relating to a
certain group of accounts.  Features linked to the user are necessarily the
same for every set of books kept for that user on that computer.  To
completely isolate one set of accounts from another, it helps tremendously
if they are kept on separate computers or under different usernames if on
the same physical computer or on the same network resource.

2.  For more information about what configuration information is kept
where, see  .  That will also be a
good starting place to learn about making backups.

3.  I know that I, for one, have more than once opened a different set of
books, probably to look up a transaction from the past to see how it was
entered, then forgotten that I was in the wrong set of books and started
entering new transactions that should have gone elsewhere.  This could be
even more confusing if some accounts have the same name in different sets
of books.

4.  Today, computers are cheap, you can have one in a green case and one in
a red case.  Then, you can even buy several USB memory keys or external
drives in different colors to use for making rotating backups.

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 5:13 PM David Cousens 
wrote:

> Chris,
>
> The normal transaction when you receive funds into an account set of books
> will
> be an increase in an Income revenue account (credit) and a debit to a bank
> (asset) account. When you withdraw the funds to transfer them to the other
> set
> of books you have to reverse both these transaction (suitable annotated)
> and
> then make corresponding entries to receive the funds in the set of books
> which
> holds the account you are transferring it to.
>
> To make it clear I would create an  Income/Revenue sub account against
> which to
> record the funds received which are to be transferred to the other account
> in
> the other set of books.  When you receive the funds you credit this
> account and
> debit the bank account. When you transfer the funds to the other account
> debit
> the income account and credit the asset account. In the other set of books
> debit
> the bank account and credit the appropriate Income/revenue account in that
> second set of books.
>
> This also gives some record that you have transferred all the appropriate
> funds
> to the other set of accounts as the balance of that Interest sub account
> should
> be zero. Another alternative would be to credit the main Income account
> when
> receiving the funds and have a sub account which is a contra account (sub
> account with only reversed entries) which you debit when you transfer the
> funds
> to the second set of books with corresponding credit to the bank account.
>
> You could also have a corresponding sub-account of the bank account which
> you
> would debit on receiving the funds for the other set of books and credit on
> transfer of the funds to the other set of books. GnuCash can reconcile an
> account and its sub-accounts (an option in the reconciliation dialogue).
>
> Main thing will be clear annotation of the corresponding transactions so
> their
> purpose is clear.
>
> The only other consideration will be any regulations for non-profits which
> may
> affect how you can record such transactions. Only an accountant in your
> jurisdiction can advise you. Anything here is of course generic and not
> adjusted
> for any regulations you may need to follow.
>
> David Cousens
>
>
> On Wed, 2023-07-12 at 22:13 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 04:56:23PM -0400, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:
> > > On 7/12/2023 8:12 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> > > > This is as much an accounting question as a GnuCash one but how one
> > > > does this depends on the sofware's capabilities so it makes sense
> > > > to ask here.
> > > >
> > > > Our church has two main accounts (as in places where money is kept),
> a
> > > > current account at a bank, and a 'building fund' kept in a building
> > > > society savings account.
> > > >
> > > > I run two separate instances of GnuCash, one for the current account
> > > > and one for the building fund.  Both of these are run on a 'cash
> > > > accounting' basis so the balances in GnuCash exactly match the
> > > > statements from the bank and building society.
> > >
> > > Let's assume that there is a good reason to have separate books << I
> can
> > > think of a number* -- keep in mind that I was treasurer of several
> > > organizations >> In other words, there might be no good reason for
> this
> > > church but might for another.
> > >
> > > a) Yes, there can be er

Re: [GNC] Unable to open GnuCash file: "No suitable backend was found for ."

[john]

> On Jul 12, 2023, at 16:16, Tomer Altman  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Due to filesystem errors, I had to reinstall MacOS on my 2015 Macbook Air 
> (current OS version: Monterey 12.6.7). After doing so, and restoring my files 
> from a TimeMachine backup using Migration Assistant, I started getting this 
> error when trying to open my accounting file:
> 
> "No suitable  backend was found for ."
> 
> (where "" is a stand-in for the actual file name)
> 
> I was at the time using a version of GnuCash from December 2022. I then 
> reinstalled using the installer available from gnucash.org (current version: 
> "5.3+(2023-06-26)" ). Unfortunately, the error persists.
> 
> Looking at this error message in the mailing list archives, it seems like 
> this has something to do with using the SQLite back-end. I looked at the 
> 'environment' text file, and it is implementing already the environment 
> variable recommended as a fix:
> 
> GNC_DBD_DIR={SYS_LIB}/dbd
> 
> It seems like my install is still unable to find the libraries that it needs, 
> though.
> 
> It's unclear to me how to diagnose which version of the back-end my file is 
> using, since I cannot open it. Using 'file' and 'head' shows that it is not 
> XML, and I am unable to decompress the file using Gzip. I'm also unable to 
> open it using the sqlite3 command line tool.
> 
> So, two questions:
> 
> 1. What's the correct way to verify the back-end type using something other 
> than GnuCash itself?
> 
> 2. What is wrong with my fresh install that is preventing me from opening up 
> the file?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any and all advice and assistance!

If it's a SQLite file you can open it with sqlite3, provided by macOS. Just 
open Terminal and run
   sqlite3 /path/to/my/gnucash/file
You can use the `.tables` command to list the tables and `.schema ` 
to show the structure and compare it with https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/SQL.

99% of the time when users report this problem it's because they're trying to 
open a log file or a .gcm file instead of their actual book.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC] Transaction Report - Split Transactions

[Vincent Dawans]

For those interested by this feature providing a more permissive match in
the transaction report to reduce the number of "split transaction", I have
implemented this feature in my custom "Transaction Report Extended" here
https://github.com/dawansv/gnucash-custom-reports

The option to enable the more permissive match is on the display tab: "Use
More Permissive Match for Other Account Name and Code".

The permissive match finds more matches by doing the following:
+ Splits on the same side as main split are ignored.
+ Splits with zero value are excluded unless main split is zero as well.
+ If there is still more than one other split, then split on the other side
with same value is matched.

It still shows "split transaction" when there is still more than one split
left after these additional matches

On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 4:37 PM Vincent Dawans  wrote:

> I have submitted a draft PR with changes that would address your use case
> (as well as mine -- I have a set of books for a small nonprofit that I like
> to export in a Google Sheet ledger for simple reporting to the board -- but
> it shows a lot of sad looking "Split Transaction" as well). As you say it's
> not a total deal breaker but essentially we can probably afford  to have a
> more aggressive "other account" match in the reports (where the data is
> only read, not changed) while keeping a more conservative approach in the
> register (where changes are made, hence it's better to work in the split
> view to avoid errors at that point). See
> https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/1637  We will have to see what
> form it takes at the end, but could also be done in a custom report if it's
> considered too "risky" for the main report.
>
> On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 4:39 AM Adrien Monteleone <
> adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:
>
>> As Vincent noted, you probably can't get there in one report, but
>> consider experimenting with the multi-column report where you can have
>> multiple transaction reports in one screen.
>>
>> Another alternative would be to run the report for each owner, and
>> copy/paste or export to a spreadsheet for further manipulation.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Adrien
>>
>> On 5/16/23 3:24 AM, John Dimitriadis wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I have a Gnucash file, which I use to track expenses for a jointly
>> owned property.
>> >
>> > Under Assets, I have two accounts. One for myself and one for the other
>> owner.
>> >
>> > Under Expenses, I have the Property, and under that I have sub-accounts
>> for the various types of expenses (eg. Taxes, Service Charges, Maintenance,
>> Bills etc).
>> >
>> > A number of the expenses transactions have split entries. Either
>> because something was paid by both owners, or because I keep more detailed
>> records.
>> >
>> > I am trying to come up with a Transaction Report that will summarise:
>> > (a) Total Expenses
>> > (b) Breakdown of Expenses per sub-Account (i.e. type of expense)
>> > (c) How much was paid by each owner, of each type of expense
>> >
>> > The problem I am facing and have not managed to solve no matter what I
>> have tried, is that for the Split Transactions, when Sorting with “Other
>> Account”, I just get a groups for “Split Transaction”, and thus lose the
>> transparency of the Sub-Account or if I structure the Transaction report
>> differently, I lose the transparency/sum for the account from which the
>> payment was made.
>>
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>
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