Re: [GNC] How to record Personal income tax ?
Hello, Thank you so much for helping me, guys. I knew that, it's depend on my local. I just want to know cash flow for that problems in GnuCash. I had read some post after read your comment, and i see that, maybe i will not follow what you told me. You guys doing the same ways. Create the Liability, and Transfer that amount to Expense each month for taxable income. I think it's wrong, For example : 1 - If you are parking car, you are not owe to the guard (Who will take your parking fee when you leave) = Your Revenue is only your, You not owe anything to government. 2 - When you leave that place, you need to pay the parking fee = When the year end, you need to pay personal income tax. 3 - You forgot your money to pay parking fee, NOW, you owe to the guard = You don't have enough money to pay tax, NOW, you owe to the government. I'm always try to make GnuCash follow to my real life (This is what GnuCash does). So my decision is i will not create anything "virtual" in GnuCash. i'm not going to spent 10% of my income to pay tax every month. i just don't want to spend that 10% of my income every month so that I will have 10% of my total income at the end of the year to pay personal income tax. You can have read this post from GnuCash to have more details about this : - https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Budget_Requirements >From "But as discussed in previous sections . (or else it wont be accurate)." >From "They aren't going to spent $100 every month The extreme disadvantage of this is that reconciling becomes very difficult." Regards. -- Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] GnuCash 3.8 crash
> On 20 Mar 2020, at 00:55, John Ralls wrote: > > Michael, > > Found, fixed, and pushed. Thanks for reporting it. > > Regards, > John Ralls Thanks for your prompt attention to an issue which probably only affected me. Michael ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] Existing multicolumn reports pick up old versions of selected single-column reports which have been edited.
Scenario: Report 1: Balance Sheet 2017 Report 2: Balance Sheet 2018 Report 3: Balance Sheet 2019 Create Multicolumn Balance Sheet which includes these three reports. This behaves as expected. Edit Report 1 - let’s say to omit the links to accounts. Run Multicolumn Report again - no change in output. Fix: Edit Multicolumn Report - Remove Balance Sheet 2017 then Add Balance Sheet 2017 Explanation: I suspect that reports which have been edited and saved aren’t simply replaced, but both versions are retained and labelled (? using UUID ?). Multicolumn reports aren’t aware of this, and pick up the zombies. Workaround: Always rename reports destined for multicolumn reporting when editing - this gets messy - or always remember to edit a multicolumn report after any of its constituents has been edited (which looks odd because you’re apparently deleting named reports and replacing them with reports with the same names. I expect this won’t be a priority area for development, but this message may save another struggling user some hair-loss. Michael ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to record Personal income tax ?
On 3/20/2020 3:27 AM, Long wrote: Hello, Thank you so much for helping me, guys. I knew that, it's depend on my local. I just want to know cash flow for that problems in GnuCash. I had read some post after read your comment, and i see that, maybe i will not follow what you told me. You guys doing the same ways. Create the Liability, and Transfer that amount to Expense each month for taxable income. I think it's wrong, For example : Stop .. it is important to understand that "cash flow" and "income/expense" are different. Yes, like in your parking lot example, if you didn't pay the attendant, you OWE (that's what a liability is). What is your goal? To KNOW what you owe the IRS (and will be paying in June or whenever) or to know you will have the cash on hand to make that payment. And remember, we here are to explain HOW to enter in gnucash, not what accounts you should have and what to enter in each of them. It is not that some of us don't know the answers to that but we lack "qualifications" << I am not an accountant; I am a retired senior systems analyst, three decades doing software for one of the world's largest "financials", and treasurer of some 501(c)3's. So I may know the answers but not legal for me to do "accounting advice". Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to record Personal income tax ?
Your answer demonstrates precisely why you need local professional advice. They can explain it for you based on your specific situation. Regards, Adrien > On Mar 20, 2020 w12d80, at 2:27 AM, Long wrote: > > Hello, > > Thank you so much for helping me, guys. > I knew that, it's depend on my local. I just want to know cash flow for that > problems in GnuCash. > I had read some post after read your comment, and i see that, maybe i will > not follow what you told me. > You guys doing the same ways. Create the Liability, and Transfer that amount > to Expense each month for taxable income. I think it's wrong, For example : > > 1 - If you are parking car, you are not owe to the guard (Who will take your > parking fee when you leave) = Your Revenue is only your, You not owe > anything to government. > 2 - When you leave that place, you need to pay the parking fee = When the > year end, you need to pay personal income tax. > 3 - You forgot your money to pay parking fee, NOW, you owe to the guard = > You don't have enough money to pay tax, NOW, you owe to the government. > > I'm always try to make GnuCash follow to my real life (This is what GnuCash > does). So my decision is i will not create anything "virtual" in GnuCash. > > i'm not going to spent 10% of my income to pay tax every month. i just don't > want to spend that 10% of my income every month so that I will have 10% of > my total income at the end of the year to pay personal income tax. > > You can have read this post from GnuCash to have more details about this : > - https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Budget_Requirements > From "But as discussed in previous sections . (or else it wont be > accurate)." > From "They aren't going to spent $100 every month The extreme > disadvantage of this is that reconciling becomes very difficult." ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Existing multicolumn reports pick up old versions of selected single-column reports which have been edited.
From your explanation, it appears you’re taking 3 saved configurations and putting them into one multicolumn, correct? Did you try the Balance Sheet (multicolumn) in the experimental menu? (v3.8) I was just able to easily run such a report with 2017, 2018, 2019 and then turned off links with no issues. Though I still think you found a valid bug, perhaps improvement in the multicolumn report forms might mitigate how often it surfaces. Regards, Adrien > On Mar 20, 2020 w12d80, at 5:05 AM, Michael Hendry > wrote: > > Scenario: > > Report 1: Balance Sheet 2017 > Report 2: Balance Sheet 2018 > Report 3: Balance Sheet 2019 > > Create Multicolumn Balance Sheet which includes these three reports. > > This behaves as expected. > > Edit Report 1 - let’s say to omit the links to accounts. > > Run Multicolumn Report again - no change in output. > > Fix: > > Edit Multicolumn Report - Remove Balance Sheet 2017 then Add Balance Sheet > 2017 > > Explanation: > > I suspect that reports which have been edited and saved aren’t simply > replaced, but both versions are retained and labelled (? using UUID ?). > Multicolumn reports aren’t aware of this, and pick up the zombies. > > > Workaround: > > Always rename reports destined for multicolumn reporting when editing - this > gets messy - or always remember to edit a multicolumn report after any of its > constituents has been edited (which looks odd because you’re apparently > deleting named reports and replacing them with reports with the same names. > > > > I expect this won’t be a priority area for development, but this message may > save another struggling user some hair-loss. > > Michael > > > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. > - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Existing multicolumn reports pick up old versions of selected single-column reports which have been edited.
> On 20 Mar 2020, at 15:33, Adrien Monteleone > wrote: > > From your explanation, it appears you’re taking 3 saved configurations and > putting them into one multicolumn, correct? That’s correct - this is the “official” (as opposed to “experimental”) method. I think my original multicolumn sheets (Balance Sheet and Revenue & Expenditure) were created using Reports => Sample & Custom => Custom Multicolumn Report. > > Did you try the Balance Sheet (multicolumn) in the experimental menu? (v3.8) I have just done this, and it works well - generating a fresh balance sheet report for each year each time it is run. > > I was just able to easily run such a report with 2017, 2018, 2019 and then > turned off links with no issues. Yes - it’s a self-contained report, whereas the Custom Multicolumn Report is dependent on combining several pre-existing reports to produce its columns. > > Though I still think you found a valid bug, perhaps improvement in the > multicolumn report forms might mitigate how often it surfaces. I haven’t looked into it thoroughly, but I don’t think there is an equivalent “experimental” report for Revenue & Expenditure, which would provide the same look-and-feel as the experimental multicolumn balance sheet, so I’ll probably need to remember to update the report selection option in my current multicolumn versions if I make changes to the reports they depend on. Thanks for your comments, Michael ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Existing multicolumn reports pick up old versions of selected single-column reports which have been edited.
> On Mar 20, 2020 w12d80, at 12:01 PM, Michael Hendry > wrote: > > > I haven’t looked into it thoroughly, but I don’t think there is an equivalent > “experimental” report for Revenue & Expenditure, which would provide the same > look-and-feel as the experimental multicolumn balance sheet, so I’ll probably > need to remember to update the report selection option in my current > multicolumn versions if I make changes to the reports they depend on. You mean as in a P&L a.k.a. Income Statement? Yes, there is one of those also in experimental. Regards, Adrien ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Existing multicolumn reports pick up old versions of selected single-column reports which have been edited.
> On 20 Mar 2020, at 17:05, Adrien Monteleone > wrote: > > >> On Mar 20, 2020 w12d80, at 12:01 PM, Michael Hendry >> wrote: >> >> >> I haven’t looked into it thoroughly, but I don’t think there is an >> equivalent “experimental” report for Revenue & Expenditure, which would >> provide the same look-and-feel as the experimental multicolumn balance >> sheet, so I’ll probably need to remember to update the report selection >> option in my current multicolumn versions if I make changes to the reports >> they depend on. > > You mean as in a P&L a.k.a. Income Statement? Yes, there is one of those also > in experimental. Of course there is, I missed it! When dealing with a charity, "Profit & Loss” is reported as “Revenue & Expenditure” - I just hadn’t realised that an Income Statement would deal with Expenditure at the same time! Michael ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] Existing multicolumn reports pick up old versions of selected single-column reports which have been edited.
Yep, nomenclature is always an issue. In this case, a relatively recent historical confounding interchange of the terms ‘income’ and ‘revenue’ can lead to some not realizing that report also includes expenses. I think ‘Income Statement’ is the traditional name of the report, at least that is what is in my Accounting textbook from my college days. (with the traditional formula, “Income = Revenue - Expenses”) These days it is used mostly by individuals, where 'Profit & Loss' is used by businesses, and ‘Statement of Revenue & Expenditures’ is used by non-profits. But unless I’m mistaken, in form, they are all the same. (There are alternate forms for P&L which group revenue categories, and might break-out COGS from Expenses with a separate ’Net Revenue’ line, then go into Expenses, and then sometimes Expenses are grouped by various managerial analysis categories; there is also the ‘profit center’ format, which is another beast entirely, but still technically a P&L) Regards, Adrien > On Mar 20, 2020 w12d80, at 12:34 PM, Michael Hendry > wrote: > >> On 20 Mar 2020, at 17:05, Adrien Monteleone >> wrote: >> >> >>> On Mar 20, 2020 w12d80, at 12:01 PM, Michael Hendry >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I haven’t looked into it thoroughly, but I don’t think there is an >>> equivalent “experimental” report for Revenue & Expenditure, which would >>> provide the same look-and-feel as the experimental multicolumn balance >>> sheet, so I’ll probably need to remember to update the report selection >>> option in my current multicolumn versions if I make changes to the reports >>> they depend on. >> >> You mean as in a P&L a.k.a. Income Statement? Yes, there is one of those >> also in experimental. > > Of course there is, I missed it! > > When dealing with a charity, "Profit & Loss” is reported as “Revenue & > Expenditure” - I just hadn’t realised that an Income Statement would deal > with Expenditure at the same time! > > Michael ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to record Personal income tax ?
Long, Michael, David, Adrien -- I think the question was a good one, and that it has been answered, despite Long's last post suggesting it was not answered. The brief version of answer: if you want to use your accounting system to recognize your tax liability at the same time you recognize income, then you can do that by setting up a "provision for taxes" or "tax liability" account, and do the entries pretty much as described already. I disagree that you need to consult an accountant to do this. This is an example of using accrual accounting (to recognize assets like accounts receivable rather than waiting to receive cash payment, and to recognize liabilities like taxes and accounts payable, before you actually pay cash to settle them) as opposed to using cash accounting. Maybe what's not clear is _when_ you should make such accounting entries. The answer is: whenever you "close your books", i.e. at the end of each reporting period, which is at the end of the year, or more frequently, such as at the end of each quarter or end of each month. A business can choose to close books and report financial statements as often as it wants to. On an ongoing basis, the business will make an entry for each transaction, such as sale of goods paid by cash, or put on accounts receivable, and such as receipts of cash to pay off accounts receivable, etc. At the end of the period, for a business using accrual accounting, you will possibly make multiple "adjusting entries" which update your balance sheet accounts and recognize the proper amount of revenue and expenses. For example, a business will: *recognize/update accounts receivable...this means recording any revenues that have been earned by the business delivering services or goods, which have not already been recognized, and also updating for losses from any accounts receivable which you now recognize cannot be collected *recognize depreciation, which is a non-cash expense, but needs to be recognized whenever *recognize/update accounts payable, e.g. for any goods or services the business has not yet paid for, if the liability to pay for them has not already been recognized *recognize tax liabilitythis involves recording tax expense in the amount currently estimated to be due (to be paid later) For taxes that are very simple, say sales tax which is a percentage of cash payments received, the tax expense and tax liability may be recognized with each transaction where cash is received. For taxes that are more complicated, like business income tax, this is probably one of the last "adjusting entries" to make because calculating the tax due depends on the business's income as revised by all the other entries. Anyhow, all these adjusting entries are done at the end of each reporting period. You don't want to estimate depreciation or make all the other entries every day, of course, you want to do this only occasionally, e.g. perhaps at the end of each month. Long's last email gave a parking lot-based example, and Long complained/asserted that his question was not answered, because he wanted to know what cash he needed to set aside to pay taxes at the end of the year. But i think the question was answered perfectly well, because the answers stated how Long should recognize an estimated tax liability, which is what Long needed to know. At the end of any reporting period after adjusting entries have been made, Long would know both how much cash was on hand, and how much tax liability they had (hopefully less than the amount of cash), and therefore Long would know how much cash was free to use for other purposes. I hope this helps. --cheers, Donald Cram On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 9:28 AM Adrien Monteleone < adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote: > Your answer demonstrates precisely why you need local professional advice. > They can explain it for you based on your specific situation. > > Regards, > Adrien > > > On Mar 20, 2020 w12d80, at 2:27 AM, Long > wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > Thank you so much for helping me, guys. > > I knew that, it's depend on my local. I just want to know cash flow for > that > > problems in GnuCash. > > I had read some post after read your comment, and i see that, maybe i > will > > not follow what you told me. > > You guys doing the same ways. Create the Liability, and Transfer that > amount > > to Expense each month for taxable income. I think it's wrong, For > example : > > > > 1 - If you are parking car, you are not owe to the guard (Who will take > your > > parking fee when you leave) = Your Revenue is only your, You not owe > > anything to government. > > 2 - When you leave that place, you need to pay the parking fee = When the > > year end, you need to pay personal income tax. > > 3 - You forgot your money to pay parking fee, NOW, you owe to the guard = > > You don't have enough money to pay tax, NOW, you owe to the government. > > > > I'm always try to make GnuCash follow to my real life (This is what > GnuCash > > does). S
Re: [GNC] How to record Personal income tax ?
Long, I think you are misunderstanding. Cash flow is a different concept from making provision for liabilities which will arise in the future. Having done the latter may however help ensure that your cash flow in the future is sufficient to meet your liabilities in the future. It is complicated further because we don't initially know how much you know about accounting and what it is you are really using GnuCash for. Liabilities are not virtual accounts, they reflect real events which have either occurred or will occur as a result of a current event. In this case the current event is the earning of income which creates a liability to pay tax which you will have to pay at a future time. Your income is not earned at one point of time but may be paid to you weekly, fortnightly, monthly etc., so your liability to pay tax accrues as you pay income. You do not actually pay the tax at this time, just recognize in your accounts that you will have to at the end of the year and estimate how much. If your personal affairs are fairly simple you may have a good idea of how much tax you will pay so recording the liability may not be necessary for you. But if you are an investor with many complex transactions, knowing how much you will owe when the taxman comes calling may be much more difficult to estimate and the above recording may become a necessary evil. Only you can decide what you need based on your circumstances. We can only advise you on how you can do it and specifcally how you can do it with GnuCash not whether you should or not. There are a number of basic principles in accounting practice that underly what is known as accrual accounting associated with recognition of income when it is earned, matching expenses to income and the timing of events. Another principle is prudence which translates as making sure you have the cash available when it is needed. Cash accounting on the other hand only recognizes income when you receive it and expenses when you pay them. You will need to decide which is more appropriate for your purpose. Most legal jurisdictions will allow you to use cash accounting for business purposes under a specified threshold of income or turnover and it is generally sufficient for most personal accounting that does not involve business transactions. Many businesses are however required to use accrual accounting. The https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-guide/index.html explains some of this in a fairly condensed form. A textbook on Financial Accounting may also help if you are not familiar with the terminology. As with most professions accounting has very specific meanings for commonly used words which may have a different meaning to their meaning in everyday use by the public. David - David Cousens -- Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
