Re: [gentoo-dev] Proxy maintainers (was: Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide)
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 09:52 +0300, Alin Nastac wrote: > Natanael Copa wrote: > > Nobody has ever showed interest and I'm not pushing my services on > > anyone. > > > Why exactly you don't want to become a Gentoo dev? Because of the byrocracy? Is it worth it to only maintain one single package? Because of gentoo devs always seems to fight? > The whole "proxy maintainer" thing is a bunch of crap. Thanks. Seems to work just fine in freebsd ports. > The Gentoo developer will still be > expected to be responsible of his/her commits, which means 2 maintainers > will spend (approximately) same amount of time testing it. The Gentoo developer would have the final reposability, so yes, he/she might need to test it. But if it doesn't work the Gentoo developer sends an email to the (proxy) maintainer: "It doesn't work. Please fix or I won't commit" or: "The code is too ugly. Please improve or I won't commit". The Gentoo dev can establish a relationship with the maintainer so after a while he/she knows the (proxy) maintainer is trustable and can commit after just a look. This in contrast to dealing with thousands unknown bug reporters. If the (proxy) maintainer doesn't answer, the gentoo dev can either fix it himself/herself or find an new maintainer - which I believe is easier than requiting a new dev, since it does not *feel* like as much responsability, even if it is. Its funny, I use gentoo much more that FreeBSD, I'm a freebsd port maintainer, but nothing for Gentoo (well, im an active bugreporter...) When I submit a fix/version bumb (I submit as "maintainer update") to freebsd ports, its normally committed within hours, even if its not a popular port. When I submit fixes for packages in Gentoo bugzilla it get stuck for months. They must have done something right. -- Natanael Copa -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Proxy maintainers (was: Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide)
On Thursday 05 October 2006 10:06, Natanael Copa wrote: > When I submit a fix/version bumb (I submit as "maintainer update") to > freebsd ports, its normally committed within hours, even if its not a > popular port. When I submit fixes for packages in Gentoo bugzilla it get > stuck for months. They must have done something right. I keep from stating my uncensored opinion about a good part of FreeBSD ports, and just say that their patch policy, as well as the one of pkgsrc that is another comparable system, is totally different from ours, and does not consider upstream presence. And I suppose I can say that with quite enough information at hand, considering that I deal with ports every time a package fails to build on G/FBSD .. the problem is most of the times I cannot make use of the patches used by ports because they are, if not broken, sub-optimal. -- Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/ Gentoo/Alt lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, Sound, ALSA, PAM, KDE, CJK, Ruby ... pgpk3Y9QUnasW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide (Proxy-dev)
Chris Gianelloni wrote: On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 13:20 -0400, Caleb Tennis wrote: With the increase in developer and project overlays, I see the possibility for reducing work needed to maintain many packages. As Natanael Copa, it would be nice for him to be able to maintain packages without having CVS access. The idea of formalizing and promoting "proxy developers" has come up a few times before, and I think it is a great idea. Work is done in the overlays, tested, improved, then committed into the main tree once the kinks have been worked out. We get a stronger core tree with fewer "developers" and a better interaction with the community. http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/40744 I am still willing to cooperate with this project idea if there exist enough interest in our users and devels base. -- Luis F. Araujo "araujo at gentoo.org" Gentoo Linux -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Proxy maintainers (was: Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide)
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 10:18 +0200, Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote: > On Thursday 05 October 2006 10:06, Natanael Copa wrote: > > When I submit a fix/version bumb (I submit as "maintainer update") to > > freebsd ports, its normally committed within hours, even if its not a > > popular port. ... > And I suppose I can say that with quite enough information at hand, > considering that I deal with ports every time a package fails to build on > G/FBSD .. the problem is most of the times I cannot make use of the patches > used by ports because they are, if not broken, sub-optimal. I buy that one. Can I become a Gentoo dev, even if I'm only maintainer of 1-3 packages? I'm trying to be realistic. -- Natanael Copa -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide (Gentoo reports)
Chris Gianelloni wrote: - Project status reports once a month for every project Totally agree on this one! OK. I'll give you Release Engineering's "status reports" for September, October, and November: September: taking a well-deserved break October: taking a well-deserved break November: taking a well-deserved break How about other projects that rely on things like upstream's release cycle? What about projects that just maintain ebuilds? Here's the games team's "status reports" for every month: "Fixed more bugs, added more packages, cleaned up some ebuilds." Now, perhaps what everyone would like, instead, would be status reports *where necessary* from certain projects? In fact, the council has been discussing asking a few projects about the status on some of their tasks. The main reason for this is for communications purposes. Basically, we'd just get a "Hey, where are you at on $x?" response from the teams. I don't *want* to drown projects in bureaucracy and paperwork. I want them to *accomplish* things, instead. I think the problem with reports is "how often would they be posted?" , and exactly "what kind of info would they contain?". I propose the following: To post a Gentoo Project report every six months, (yes, accompanying every Gentoo release, *be careful*, i am not saying you releng guys should take care of this). This report would be like a way of ChangeLog for our Gentoo project, which could contain the following: - Herds news: Each herd could write a 1-2 page report about the main changes they have done in these last 6 months. Including news about interesting packages added, new eclasses for sustaining the herd packages, any useful comment for the users of the herds, etc etc. - Project news: This could include projects like releng, pr, userel. Which could post general news about the main things happening for these last 6 months too. For example, releng could post about some new techniques involved to release this new Gentoo release; which packages were more problematic for building it and why? , in other words, the kind of info our users (and devel too) would be interested on. Now, this kind of report could be very very useful, both for users as for our developers. And making its release every 6 months, i think the time and what-to-comment problem shouldn't be a concern at all. I already can hear some of you saying "No, i don't want to write anything for X or Y!" ; fine, just don't do it. Nobody would be forced to do it. This would be a paper for those herds/projects/developers willing to communicate their work during the past 6 months to our community, and which could become in a very informative source to give a general overview of what it is going on in Gentoo land. "Fine , i won't write anything .. but .. mm .. Who would read this anyway?" , i hear this question too ... Sorry, i can't give you names of who are going to read this. But i think a big portion of our community would do it, if we post it on gentoo.org every 6 months surely someone would pick it and read it, don't doubt it. (myself included.) "Ok .. mmm fine .. mm.. wait, this is the same than GWN, isnt this?"; no it isn't ; i don't see a common pattern of Herds/Projects reports (check, it is report, *not* news) released every week on GWN; and that's because, GWN is for general weekly news .. that is very evidently on its name indeed. Suggestions and constructive criticisms are welcome. Regards, -- Luis F. Araujo "araujo at gentoo.org" Gentoo Linux -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Proxy maintainers
Natanael Copa wrote: > Because of gentoo devs always seems to fight? > > You don't have to fight. > Its funny, I use gentoo much more that FreeBSD, I'm a freebsd port > maintainer, but nothing for Gentoo (well, im an active bugreporter...) > > When I submit a fix/version bumb (I submit as "maintainer update") to > freebsd ports, its normally committed within hours, even if its not a > popular port. When I submit fixes for packages in Gentoo bugzilla it get > stuck for months. They must have done something right. > I don't know anything about freebsd, but I think they have a lot less packages than us. Since we have a vast territory to cover with just 200 (semi-)active developers, there are portions of the tree neglected by the dev corpus. The solution is quite simple: new devs assigned to those part of the tree. The only problem is that is very hard to find motivated peeps. As a guy that maintains stuff for which I don't have the slightest interest (other than serving Gentoo community, of course), I find the "let the others do the job" attitude pretty infuriating. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 11:44:07 -0400 "Thomas Cort" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 10/4/06, Kevin F. Quinn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 09:41:45 -0400 > > Alec Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > My view is that while they're being actively supported, there's no > > reason to remove them. Granted their mostly SpanKY's babies, but so > > what? > > My view is that currently we cannot offer the same level of support > for the minority arches as the majority arches because we don't have > enough people involved. We don't need to. Gentoo isn't just one single thing, and I see no reason to require that all projects and arches offer the same level of support. Each project and arch can make their own determination about what level of support they can and will offer. Embedded users, for example, are generally more technically-oriented to start with so need far less support than, say, non-technical x86 users. > I think that spreading the developers too thin > leads to conflict and burnout. Look at NetBSD and debian. They are > trying to be everything for everyone. How is that working for them, > how is it working for us? I think we should be more focused, but > that's just my opinion. Minority arches don't affect devs who aren't interested in them, so they have no impact on how spread out the developers are. Effectively you're saying that those involved in the minority arches should stop messing about with that and commit all their Gentoo time to mainline activities, which is obviously not sensible. -- Kevin F. Quinn signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 11:44:07 -0400 "Thomas Cort" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 10/4/06, Kevin F. Quinn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 09:41:45 -0400 > > Alec Warner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > My view is that while they're being actively supported, there's no > > reason to remove them. Granted their mostly SpanKY's babies, but so > > what? > > My view is that currently we cannot offer the same level of support > for the minority arches as the majority arches because we don't have > enough people involved. We don't need to. Gentoo isn't just one single thing, and I see no reason to require that all projects and arches offer the same level of support. Each project and arch can make their own determination about what level of support they can and will offer. Embedded users, for example, are generally more technically-oriented to start with so need far less support than, say, non-technical x86 users. > I think that spreading the developers too thin > leads to conflict and burnout. Look at NetBSD and debian. They are > trying to be everything for everyone. How is that working for them, > how is it working for us? I think we should be more focused, but > that's just my opinion. Minority arches don't affect devs who aren't interested in them, so they have no impact on how spread out the developers are. Effectively you're saying that those involved in the minority arches should stop messing about with that and commit all their Gentoo time to mainline activities, which is obviously not sensible. -- Kevin F. Quinn signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 11:39:07 -0400 "Thomas Cort" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 10/4/06, Kevin F. Quinn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 09:21:08 -0400 > > "Thomas Cort" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > The "minority" arches like mips, sparc etc seem to get along > > > > quite happily. > > > > > > Not the "minority" arches like m68k, s390, alpha, ... > > > > I haven't seen any significant numbers of complaints. What exactly > > about those arches do you think is a problem? > > The speed at which bugs are resolved is the problem. Keywording/stable > bugs can sit for months and sometimes over a year without being > touched. So? Who is complaining? Open stabilisation bugs are a concern for the relevant arches, not for everyone. Once an arch has actioned a stabilisation bug, they remove themselves from CC, after which they don't care. > Some people think the amount of time some arches lag behind > is acceptable, I don't. The primary reason why arches lag is that we > don't have enough people doing the testing and keywording. > > > You should only raise expectations when you know you can follow > > through, not the other way around. Raising expectations before > > being able to follow through leads to disappointment, which is bad. > > I think that if we implement my suggestions (drastically reducing the > workload), we will be able to meet those expectations. All that will happen if you ditch the minority arches, is that the devs involved will take their work into overlay or possibly leave Gentoo altogether. It won't improve anything for other arches. -- Kevin F. Quinn signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 12:52:14 +0200 "Kevin F. Quinn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | Minority arches don't affect devs who aren't interested in them Actually, they do. Minority archs lead to much better tree QA being done, more bugs in packages being identified and more ebuild and package bugs being fixed. -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaranm at ciaranm.org Web : http://ciaranm.org/ as-needed is broken : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=13 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
On Thursday 05 October 2006 13:48, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > Actually, they do. Minority archs lead to much better tree QA being > done, more bugs in packages being identified and more ebuild and > package bugs being fixed. Hell is gonna break loose, I agree with Ciaran! -- Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/ Gentoo/Alt lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, Sound, ALSA, PAM, KDE, CJK, Ruby ... pgp4ozz5ydi6I.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-dev] treecleaner maskings
# Christian Heim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (5 Oct 2006) # masking sys-apps/sal-client for treecleaners, bug(s) 67364 # Pending removal Nov 5th. Please use sys-process/audit instead! sys-apps/sal-client -> Masked as requested by Robin Johnson in bug #67364. -- Christian Heim GPG key ID: 9A9F68E6 Fingerprint: AEC4 87B8 32B8 4922 B3A9 DF79 CAE3 556F 9A9F 68E6 Your friendly treecleaner/mobile/kernel/vserver/openvz monkey pgp7A3cxVAD2p.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote: > On Thursday 05 October 2006 13:48, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: >> Actually, they do. Minority archs lead to much better tree QA being >> done, more bugs in packages being identified and more ebuild and >> package bugs being fixed. > Hell is gonna break loose, I agree with Ciaran! > Not today, not today, 1/2 of the devils are on a strike because of the recent freezes in the latest months, the others are still recovering from the flu caused by the change in the climate... lu -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
On Thursday 05 October 2006 14:04, Luca Barbato wrote: > Not today, not today, 1/2 of the devils are on a strike because of the > recent freezes in the latest months, the others are still recovering > from the flu caused by the change in the climate... What if I call as a reinforcement the BSD daemons I have here around? -- Diego "Flameeyes" Pettenò - http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/ Gentoo/Alt lead, Gentoo/FreeBSD, Video, Sound, ALSA, PAM, KDE, CJK, Ruby ... pgpYo0lbsdb4k.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 09:52 +0300, Alin Nastac wrote: > Natanael Copa wrote: > > Nobody has ever showed interest and I'm not pushing my services on > > anyone. > > > Why exactly you don't want to become a Gentoo dev? The whole "proxy > maintainer" thing is a bunch of crap. The Gentoo developer will still be > expected to be responsible of his/her commits, which means 2 maintainers > will spend (approximately) same amount of time testing it. It does mean you can sometimes offload work onto other people, eg upstream maintainers - who are themselves not interested in becoming devs but are more than happy to maintain their single ebuild. And it does actually mean less work for us because although we still have to test it, we can rely to some extent on the testing done by that maintainer and by other users who regularly build from our overlay. Also it means we don't have to look out for upstream releases because they 'darcs send' in their updates and we just take responsibility for QA and getting things into portage cvs. -- Duncan Coutts : Gentoo Developer (Haskell team lead) email : dcoutts at gentoo dot org -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
Diego 'Flameeyes' Pettenò wrote: > On Thursday 05 October 2006 14:04, Luca Barbato wrote: >> Not today, not today, 1/2 of the devils are on a strike because of the >> recent freezes in the latest months, the others are still recovering >> from the flu caused by the change in the climate... > What if I call as a reinforcement the BSD daemons I have here around? > They got all taken for the next pokemon film, seems that the new logo rang a bell to the producers... lu -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 12:48 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 12:52:14 +0200 "Kevin F. Quinn" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > | Minority arches don't affect devs who aren't interested in them > > Actually, they do. Minority archs lead to much better tree QA being > done, more bugs in packages being identified and more ebuild and > package bugs being fixed. You see this is the problem with being perceived as a "minority" architecture. And it's something that gets completely overlooked -- before we had a QA team, the "minority" architectures served a similar purpose. Countless packages have had build-system fixes, compile fixes, runtime fixes all *because* we had ppc, sparc, mips and others (ppc and sparc being the more major of them, in terms of long-term impact to Gentoo). IOW, +1 on Ciaran's statement. I think it's perfectly fine to think about pruning/thinning out Gentoo to its core, but first we have to actually decide what its core actually is. Hint: majority architectures are *not*. Gentoo, at heart, is a meta-distribution, and all that that implies. Thanks, -- Seemant Kulleen Developer, Gentoo Linux -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 04:09 +, Duncan wrote: > Two and potentially far worse, you have the demotivation problem. Picking > on a rather active dev as a prime example, Flameeyes' Gentoo/alt-freebsd > is certainly a minority arch, one that he spends a decent amount of time > on that could arguably be spent on more mainline projects. Yet he remains > very active in other areas as well, and simply telling him to packup his > Gentoo/fbsd project as it's not wanted would be incredibly demotivating, > and could eventually cause us to lose him and all the stuff he does for > the /rest/ of the tree (a quite a lot, from where I sit as a user, and > I'm very likely missing the largest share of it). That's not even > counting how his work on Gentoo/FBSD has improved the quality of the tree > for everyone, including those like me who have no direct interest in FBSD > at all. Flameeyes isn't the only one. If you shut down all the minority > archs and projects, you demotivate some of our best and brightest, and > will very likely eventually lose them. $ cat commits.txt top 10 is: agriffis, vapier, flameeyes, eradicator, mcummings, mrbones, gustavoz, corsair, kloeri and wolf31o2 (in that order) Let's see... Aron works on alpha and ia64. Mike works on arm, hppa, s390, sh. Diego works on x86-fbsd. Gustavo works on sparc. Bryan works on alpha. I work on alpha. All of these are architectures/alt project that people are talking about dropping, yet the most productive people for Gentoo also happen to work on these and still manage to improve the "core" of Gentoo daily. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
On Wed, 2006-10-04 at 22:00 -0400, Mike Kelly wrote: > > I don't *want* to drown projects in bureaucracy and paperwork. I want > > them to *accomplish* things, instead. > > Sending a brief "All's well with releng" email isn't exactly what I > would call "drowning in bureaucracy". Of course not, but that's where it starts. Forcing projects to really do anything on a regular set schedule that isn't internally set is bureaucracy and pointless. I don't *want* to have to spend my time thinking about which projects I'm supposed to be sending status reports on that haven't done anything. I'd *much* rather spend my time actually *developing* on the projects that *are* currently moving. This is my *entire* point. Forcing a project to send in worthless little "we're still here" messages doesn't do anything. Of *course* they're still there. They have a project page. They have members. They're doing commits. Rather than wasting time trying to get everybody out giving each other warm fuzzies, I'd prefer we focus on the areas where we truly need to improve communications. A couple good examples of projects/teams that affect everyone are infrastructure and the trustees. These are two good places for status reports. Things like the games team are not. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
[gentoo-dev] Re: Proxy maintainers
Tach Natanael, 0x2B859DE3 (PGP-PK-ID) Natanael Copa schrieb: > Can I become a Gentoo dev, even if I'm only maintainer of 1-3 packages? > I'm trying to be realistic. You can. And you can even keep out of dev fights here on the mailing list. On IRC you normally have a good working atmosphere, I always found a person who could do what was needed and they get testing back. V-Li -- Fingerprint: 68C5 D381 B69A A777 6A91 E999 350A AD7C 2B85 9DE3 http://www.gnupg.org/ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
Hello, since Gentoo started its "Gentoopix" LiveCD I really miss a CD for networkless-installation. I don't know why the stage3 is missing, because just some people need a full Gnome-Desktop for the installation :-( A year ago I could choose between a Minimal-CD for network-installation, or a Universal-CD for offline-installation (independence) network-installation. Nowadays I need to load a "Gentoopix" with a lot of really unnecessary Gnome-Stuff, and even don't get a real Stage3, just a bunch of Voodoo-Scripts. First Question: Where is here the Choice_Of_Gentoo and why are we breaking with our tradition of shell-installing? I would be better to offer a real Universal-CD or to creat a bootloader-script, which gives the users the possibility to start X11/GTK-Installer if they want this, not without a question. Second Question: Will there be a new Universal-CD (or a DVD) with a real Stage3 for networkless-installion? I think, a gentoo-user should be able to choose between the shell, ncurses- and a gtk-installer. And any of this groups should have the same possibilites to install. Greetz -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
Tach Thomas, 0x2B859DE3 (PGP-PK-ID) Thomas Cort schrieb: > Every developer should have access to at least 1 Gentoo system. They > should also be able to determine if something is stable or not. It would > cut down on the number of keyword/stable bugs if developers did a lot of > their own keywording. As others already told: Most devs run ~arch and are surprised when arch testers spot problems on an entire stable system with a package going to be stabled. I see that a lot when testing for x86, most of the time minor issues sometimes graver things. V-Li -- Fingerprint: 68C5 D381 B69A A777 6A91 E999 350A AD7C 2B85 9DE3 http://www.gnupg.org/ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
Tach Ioannis, 0x2B859DE3 (PGP-PK-ID) Ioannis Aslanidis schrieb: >> - Make every dev a member of at least 1 arch team > That's a sound idea, that way some herds (see KDE) won't have to be > searching for testers in every arch because _strangely_ one of the most > daily used desktop environments doesn't have many users among the > testers. That is a problem of the herd actually. They should look out for a person (be it dev or recruit) who is willing to join an arch team for KDE and do the work. Or place an active user as arch tester in the arch projects, which is very simple. Testers are needed and I try to support KDE even when using Gnome. To bring Gentoo forward, but you have seen the konqburn problems, so just having someone to keyword without proper testing does not help anyone. V-Li -- Fingerprint: 68C5 D381 B69A A777 6A91 E999 350A AD7C 2B85 9DE3 http://www.gnupg.org/ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
Peter Weber wrote: > Hello, > since Gentoo started its "Gentoopix" LiveCD I really miss a CD for > networkless-installation. I don't know why the stage3 is missing, > because just some people need a full Gnome-Desktop for the > installation :-( Oh noes, we even have a whole special handbook version [1] for networkless installs, but you didn't bother to check even, right? [1] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/2006.1/index.xml Sigh. :( -- Best regards, Jakub Moc mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG signature: http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCEBA3D9E Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95 B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA 3D9E ... still no signature ;) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 09:52 +0300, Alin Nastac wrote: > Natanael Copa wrote: > > Nobody has ever showed interest and I'm not pushing my services on > > anyone. > > > Why exactly you don't want to become a Gentoo dev? The whole "proxy > maintainer" thing is a bunch of crap. The Gentoo developer will still be > expected to be responsible of his/her commits, which means 2 maintainers > will spend (approximately) same amount of time testing it. Maybe he doesn't want to deal with the politics? Maybe he doesn't want to deal with the flame wars? Maybe, he just wants his package in the tree and hopes to find a developer who thinks the same? Personally, I proxy maintain 3 packages. I don't actively *use* these packages. In this case, I'm mostly just a "commit monkey" though I do check the packages for things similarly to what is done by Arch Testers. Now, I wouldn't take on a very large number of such packages, simply due to my own time constraints. In this case, I proxy maintain for a former Gentoo ebuild developer, so I have a strong level of trust that he knows what he's doing. Even then, I still give them a once-over. It is so little effort on my part to "maintain" the packages that, if I so chose, I could probably proxy 100 of these. The brunt of the work, such as keeping up with upstream, writing patches, etc. are done by the person whom I proxy for, and not by me. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 08:34 +0200, Natanael Copa wrote: > If the "proxy maintainer" is specified as contact person in the ebuild, > and will be added to the CC list on bugs posted, the official developer > will not need to care about it until he gets a response from the proxy > developer. Well, look at sys-auth/bioapi. The ebuild is written (and maintained) by an ex-developer, SeJo. He sends me the updates, and I commit them. About the only thing that I do is run them through repoman and check that they're not doing fun things like "rm -rf /" in pkg_preinst. ;] Of course, they're super-new, so there's no bugs, but once a bug gets filed on it, I'll be sure that SeJo is added to CC, if he isn't added by the bug wrangler. At that point, I'll expect him to fix it. In the end, *I* am ultimately responsible for the package, since I am the developer that "maintains" it, but the workload on me is minimal, at most. > But I'd like to do official portage and not any overlay. I have > submitted ebuilds to bugzilla that ended up in an overlay somehwere (bug > got closed) and has dissapeared for ever. I can't post bugs about > overlays in bugzilla, (I suppose) so no updated ebuild have been > submitted and I ended up just running my own local overlay. If your package was added to an overlay and the bug was closed, it was closed in error. Bug reports (unless they pertain to an overlay itself) don't get closed until the bug is "FIXED" in the main tree. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
You don't unterstand me, sorry. There is no Universal-CD, a User must to download the LiveCD which forces he/she to use the Ncurses/X11-Installer, because there is no Stage3-Tarball. The missing Stage3 is the real problem. On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 16:27 +0200, Jakub Moc wrote: > Peter Weber wrote: > > Hello, > > since Gentoo started its "Gentoopix" LiveCD I really miss a CD for > > networkless-installation. I don't know why the stage3 is missing, > > because just some people need a full Gnome-Desktop for the > > installation :-( > > Oh noes, we even have a whole special handbook version [1] for > networkless installs, but you didn't bother to check even, right? > > [1] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/2006.1/index.xml > > Sigh. :( > -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Proxy maintainers
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 00:00 +, Christian 'Opfer' Faulhammer wrote: > Tach Natanael, 0x2B859DE3 (PGP-PK-ID) > > Natanael Copa schrieb: > > Can I become a Gentoo dev, even if I'm only maintainer of 1-3 packages? > > I'm trying to be realistic. > > You can. And you can even keep out of dev fights here on the mailing > list. On IRC you normally have a good working atmosphere, I always found > a person who could do what was needed and they get testing back. Ok. Where's the dev form? I'm initially only interested in maintaining packages where I'm the upstream maintainer as well. Do I have to do the dev quiz etc? If so, I'm not doing it today. -- Natanael Copa -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Christian 'Opfer' Faulhammer wrote: > Most devs run ~arch Says who? Did you pull that fact out of a hat, or something? Do you have any hard numbers to back that statement? Let's have an informal poll some time: I know I don't run ~arch, and there are many more devs who also run primarily stable systems. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD4DBQFFJRndrsJQqN81j74RApEAAJ0TYaDiye0YWgX7XgoWEllw0sW5bwCTBZnn QupVOdDJr1bRcOGj4vATvw== =L0gr -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Proxy maintainers
On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 16:39:50 +0200 Natanael Copa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | I'm initially only interested in maintaining packages where I'm the | upstream maintainer as well. Ick. Rarely a good idea. That removes a layer of QA. -- Ciaran McCreesh Mail: ciaranm at ciaranm.org Web : http://ciaranm.org/ as-needed is broken : http://ciaranm.org/show_post.pl?post_id=13 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 15:52 +0200, Peter Weber wrote: > First Question: Where is here the Choice_Of_Gentoo and why are we > breaking with our tradition of shell-installing? I love this argument. What about *our* choice to not waste time building things we don't want? > I would be better to offer a real Universal-CD or to creat a > bootloader-script, which gives the users the possibility to start > X11/GTK-Installer if they want this, not without a question. Umm... "nox" works just fine. See, what *you* seem to be missing is that we're trying to provide a better environment for our users. The LiveCD is *not* just an installation medium anymore. It is a full-fledged Gentoo environment. It can be used for showcasing Gentoo, as well as system recovery *and* installation. > Second Question: Will there be a new Universal-CD (or a DVD) with a real > Stage3 for networkless-installion? No. I do plan on putting the stage3 on the next LiveDVD, but without the necessary distfiles, it won't do much good for doing a completely networkless installation. The simple truth is that there were way too many bug reports each release about missing distfiles and other such problems that made it not worth the time required to maintain for us. > I think, a gentoo-user should be able to choose between the shell, > ncurses- and a gtk-installer. And any of this groups should have the > same possibilites to install. I've actually been writing a document on how to use the installer scripts from the command line (without running the installer itself) to perform an install. At any rate, there's *nothing* stopping someone *else* from building their own Universal CD. If you need it, build it. People seem to think that "choice" means "forcing developers to do what *I* want them to do with *their* volunteered time". It doesn't. We release our code under the GPL. We release our release-building tool. We release our spec files for that tool. Anyone is capable of running a few scripts to do exactly what we've done to build their own "Gentoo" release. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee Gentoo Foundation signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
Peter Weber wrote: > You don't unterstand me, sorry. > There is no Universal-CD, a User must to download the LiveCD which > forces he/she to use the Ncurses/X11-Installer, because there is no > Stage3-Tarball. OH RLY? Maybe just read the options you can pass to bootloader to get CLI? > The missing Stage3 is the real problem. Apparently... http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/2006.1/stages/stage3-i686-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/amd64/2006.1/stages/stage3-amd64-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2006.1/ppc32/stages/stage3-ppc-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2006.1/ppc64/stages/stage3-ppc64-32ul-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2006.1/ppc64/stages/stage3-ppc64-64ul-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/sparc/2006.1/sparc32/stages/stage3-sparc-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/sparc/2006.1/sparc64/stages/stage3-sparc64-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ia64/2006.1/stages/stage3-ia64-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/alpha/2006.1/stages/stage3-alpha-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/hppa/2006.1/stages/hppa2.0/stage3-hppa2.0-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/hppa/2006.1/stages/hppa1.1/stage3-hppa1.1-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/mips/2006.1/stages/mips3/stage3-mips3-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/mips/2006.1/stages/mips4/stage3-mips4-2006.1.tar.bz2 -- Best regards, Jakub Moc mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG signature: http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCEBA3D9E Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95 B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA 3D9E ... still no signature ;) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 10:48 -0400, Chris Gianelloni wrote: > > > Second Question: Will there be a new Universal-CD (or a DVD) with a real > > Stage3 for networkless-installion? > > No. I do plan on putting the stage3 on the next LiveDVD, but without > the necessary distfiles, it won't do much good for doing a completely > networkless installation. > I've actually been writing a document on how to use the installer > scripts from the command line (without running the installer itself) to > perform an install. > More is not necessary. Thanks. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
On 10/5/06, Jakub Moc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Peter Weber wrote: > You don't unterstand me, sorry. > There is no Universal-CD, a User must to download the LiveCD which > forces he/she to use the Ncurses/X11-Installer, because there is no > Stage3-Tarball. OH RLY? Maybe just read the options you can pass to bootloader to get CLI? > The missing Stage3 is the real problem. Apparently... http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/2006.1/stages/stage3-i686-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/amd64/2006.1/stages/stage3-amd64-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2006.1/ppc32/stages/stage3-ppc-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2006.1/ppc64/stages/stage3-ppc64-32ul-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2006.1/ppc64/stages/stage3-ppc64-64ul-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/sparc/2006.1/sparc32/stages/stage3-sparc-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/sparc/2006.1/sparc64/stages/stage3-sparc64-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ia64/2006.1/stages/stage3-ia64-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/alpha/2006.1/stages/stage3-alpha-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/hppa/2006.1/stages/hppa2.0/stage3-hppa2.0-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/hppa/2006.1/stages/hppa1.1/stage3-hppa1.1-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/mips/2006.1/stages/mips3/stage3-mips3-2006.1.tar.bz2 http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/mips/2006.1/stages/mips4/stage3-mips4-2006.1.tar.bz2 None of which are that helpful for a networkless install :/ -- Best regards, Jakub Moc mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG signature: http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCEBA3D9E Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95 B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA 3D9E ... still no signature ;) -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Proxy maintainers
Tach Natanael, 0x2B859DE3 (PGP-PK-ID) Natanael Copa schrieb: > On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 00:00 +, Christian 'Opfer' Faulhammer wrote: >> Natanael Copa schrieb: >>> Can I become a Gentoo dev, even if I'm only maintainer of 1-3 packages? >>> I'm trying to be realistic. >> You can. And you can even keep out of dev fights here on the mailing >> list. On IRC you normally have a good working atmosphere, I always found >> a person who could do what was needed and they get testing back. > Ok. Where's the dev form? http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/recruiters/mentor.xml > I'm initially only interested in maintaining packages where I'm the > upstream maintainer as well. Nobody will force you to join any projects you don't want to join. > Do I have to do the dev quiz etc? If so, I'm not doing it today. It takes a bit longer... V-Li -- Fingerprint: 68C5 D381 B69A A777 6A91 E999 350A AD7C 2B85 9DE3 http://www.gnupg.org/ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
Tach Josh, 0x2B859DE3 (PGP-PK-ID) Josh Saddler schrieb: > Christian 'Opfer' Faulhammer wrote: >> Most devs run ~arch > Says who? Did you pull that fact out of a hat, or something? Do you have > any hard numbers to back that statement? "A lot of devs run ~arch" is more accurate. Or at least their package.keywords is very big. > Let's have an informal poll some time: I know I don't run ~arch, and > there are many more devs who also run primarily stable systems. During testing I often hear "I don't run stable, so I need someone to test ebuild X for verification my bug fix worked" V-Li -- Fingerprint: 68C5 D381 B69A A777 6A91 E999 350A AD7C 2B85 9DE3 http://www.gnupg.org/ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Proxy maintainers
On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 15:47 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 16:39:50 +0200 Natanael Copa > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > | I'm initially only interested in maintaining packages where I'm the > | upstream maintainer as well. > > Ick. Rarely a good idea. That removes a layer of QA. ok. whatever... so, I have learned alot today. * I can't become a proxy maintainer. (you guys will continue your "fight" if its a good or bad idea having proxy maintainers and meanwhile nothing will happen) * It's a bad idea for me to become a dev since I only want to maintain stuff I know I will be able to maintain. (I cant start small and take more and more packages over time, when/if I feel I'm able to do more) That leaves me with the conclution that its best to just continue to run my own local portage tree and submit bugreports once in a while and hope for the best, just like I have always been doing. Thanks! -- Natanael Copa -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
Dan Meltzer wrote: > None of which are that helpful for a networkless install :/ Funny, I can still do networkless install with those just fine by fetching the distfiles tarballs before install - hint: emerge -[fF] Plus nothing stops you from creating your own customized media using our release tools, as already said. You can still install Gentoo from stage1 if you really wish, it's just not something that we want to support any more. You can do lots of other things, like stage4 stuff. I don't see how are we discriminating anyone; we just choose what we can support and what we don't wish/can't support any more with the limited manpower available. -- Best regards, Jakub Moc mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG signature: http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCEBA3D9E Primary key fingerprint: D2D7 933C 9BA1 C95B 2C95 B30F 8717 D5FD CEBA 3D9E ... still no signature ;) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Proxy maintainers
Natanael Copa wrote: That leaves me with the conclution that its best to just continue to run my own local portage tree and submit bugreports once in a while and hope for the best, just like I have always been doing. No matter what community you decide to participate in (Gentoo, local, church, whatever) there is always going to be a presence of power struggles, red tape, beuracracy, etc. Sure there are people that are vocal, but that doesn't imply that they represent the majority. There's still a great deal of people who quietly work on improving things in the background that never get noticed and don't make much noise. If you don't like all the wang-fests, then just ignore them and get back to developing. Steve -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Proxy maintainers
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 05:08:29PM +0200, Natanael Copa wrote: > On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 15:47 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: > > On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 16:39:50 +0200 Natanael Copa > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > | I'm initially only interested in maintaining packages where I'm the > > | upstream maintainer as well. > > > > Ick. Rarely a good idea. That removes a layer of QA. > > ok. whatever... > > so, I have learned alot today. > > * I can't become a proxy maintainer. (you guys will continue your > "fight" if its a good or bad idea having proxy maintainers and meanwhile > nothing will happen) Yes you can. I'm a fan of proxy maintaining and would be happy to proxy commits for you. Please poke me on irc.freenode.net (nick kloeri). > > * It's a bad idea for me to become a dev since I only want to maintain > stuff I know I will be able to maintain. (I cant start small and take > more and more packages over time, when/if I feel I'm able to do more) Devs only maintaining one or two packages rarely get the needed experience to maintain a high QA imo. I think proxy maintaining in those cases are a much better idea. > > That leaves me with the conclution that its best to just continue to run > my own local portage tree and submit bugreports once in a while and hope > for the best, just like I have always been doing. See above. Regards, Bryan Østergaard -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Re: Proxy maintainers
Tach Natanael, 0x2B859DE3 (PGP-PK-ID) Natanael Copa schrieb: > On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 15:47 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: >> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 16:39:50 +0200 Natanael Copa >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | I'm initially only interested in >> maintaining packages where I'm the | upstream maintainer as well. Ick. >> Rarely a good idea. That removes a layer of QA. [...] > * I can't become a proxy maintainer. (you guys will continue your > "fight" if its a good or bad idea having proxy maintainers and meanwhile > nothing will happen) You can become a proxy maintainer. If you find a dev who trusts you enough to commit for you. Did you actually read the comments on proxy maintainers as for FreeBSD ports? The discussion about world domination is very friendly so why not answer to the thread's arguments? > * It's a bad idea for me to become a dev since I only want to maintain > stuff I know I will be able to maintain. (I cant start small and take > more and more packages over time, when/if I feel I'm able to do more) Just because Ciaran made a point, you give up? Sure it would be nicer to have devs involved in the project itself and not only with their small task. > That leaves me with the conclution that its best to just continue to run > my own local portage tree and submit bugreports once in a while and hope > for the best, just like I have always been doing. I get the feeling you just stood up to complain, not to help the situation. To get a feeling for the work to be done in Gentoo, become an arch tester or get involved with project Sunrise, which might be what you are looking for. V-Li -- Fingerprint: 68C5 D381 B69A A777 6A91 E999 350A AD7C 2B85 9DE3 http://www.gnupg.org/ -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
Jakub Moc wrote: >> The missing Stage3 is the real problem. > > Apparently... > > http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/2006.1/stages/stage3-i686-2006.1.tar.bz2 > http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/amd64/2006.1/stages/stage3-amd64-2006.1.tar.bz2 > http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2006.1/ppc32/stages/stage3-ppc-2006.1.tar.bz2 > http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2006.1/ppc64/stages/stage3-ppc64-32ul-2006.1.tar.bz2 > http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2006.1/ppc64/stages/stage3-ppc64-64ul-2006.1.tar.bz2 > http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/sparc/2006.1/sparc32/stages/stage3-sparc-2006.1.tar.bz2 > http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/sparc/2006.1/sparc64/stages/stage3-sparc64-2006.1.tar.bz2 > http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ia64/2006.1/stages/stage3-ia64-2006.1.tar.bz2 > http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/alpha/2006.1/stages/stage3-alpha-2006.1.tar.bz2 > http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/hppa/2006.1/stages/hppa2.0/stage3-hppa2.0-2006.1.tar.bz2 > http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/hppa/2006.1/stages/hppa1.1/stage3-hppa1.1-2006.1.tar.bz2 > http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/mips/2006.1/stages/mips3/stage3-mips3-2006.1.tar.bz2 > http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/mips/2006.1/stages/mips4/stage3-mips4-2006.1.tar.bz2 Stop being stupid please, you're only making fun of yourself. I guess I don't have to explain you how useful a URL is to a _networkless_ installation, do I? -- Kind Regards, Simon Stelling Gentoo/AMD64 Developer -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
grab catalyst 2 learn how to use it an make your own stage 3 installer. it's pretty easy. their's the gentoo-cayalyst list if you need help. Plus nothing stops you from creating your own customized media using our release tools, as already said. You can still install Gentoo from stage1 if you really wish, it's just not something that we want to support any more. You can do lots of other things, like stage4 stuff. I don't see how are we discriminating anyone; we just choose what we can support and what we don't wish/can't support any more with the limited manpower available. -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] ruby gems vs. ebuilds
Howdy, Can someone point me to any documentation on why ebuilds are being created for ruby gems? Gem is the a nice, easy to use, standard package manager for ruby. The problem that I see is if you install the same package via both gem and portage all sorts of bad things happen. For the curious, use gem to install rake, then portage to install rake, then try to use rake... Hint, emerge --unmerge is your friend. The real problem is when you now install a package that has ruby dependencies (example kazehakase-0.4.1). Real easy to to have portage trash your previous gem install. Wouldn't make more sense to have the ebuilds front-end gem vs. doing a config & make & make instlal? Then if you had installed via gem, then portage, the gem would just be re-installed, not installed differently. TIA, Roy -- echo "spzxAdjtdp/dpn" | perl -pe 's/(.)/chr(ord($1)-1)/ge' -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] ruby gems vs. ebuilds
2006/10/5, Roy Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Howdy,
Can someone point me to any documentation on why ebuilds are
being created for ruby gems?
Gem is the a nice, easy to use, standard package manager for ruby.
The problem that I see is if you install the same package via both
gem and portage all sorts of bad things happen. For the curious,
use gem to install rake, then portage to install rake, then try to
use rake... Hint, emerge --unmerge is your friend.
The real problem is when you now install a package that has
ruby dependencies (example kazehakase-0.4.1). Real easy to
to have portage trash your previous gem install.
Wouldn't make more sense to have the ebuilds front-end gem vs.
doing a config & make & make instlal? Then if you had installed
via gem, then portage, the gem would just be re-installed, not
installed differently.
Hi,
AFAIK, the ruby related ebuilds use gem. For example rails has in his ebuild :
"inherit ruby gems"
and if you look in the gems eclass :
gems_src_install() {
gems_location
if [ -z "${MY_P}" ]; then
GEM_SRC=${DISTDIR}/${P}
else
GEM_SRC=${DISTDIR}/${MY_P}
fi
if use doc; then
myconf="--rdoc"
else
myconf="--no-rdoc"
fi
dodir ${GEMSDIR}
gem install ${GEM_SRC} -v ${PV} ${myconf} -l -i ${D}/${GEMSDIR} ||
die "gem install failed"
if [ -d ${D}/${GEMSDIR}/bin ] ; then
exeinto /usr/bin
for exe in ${D}/${GEMSDIR}/bin/* ; do
doexe ${exe}
done
fi
}
And it's the same for rake !
The problem might be (that's a supposition only) that gem installs the
files in the image which will be merged to the system by portage and
doesn't install the files directly in the "real" system.
or maybe did I miss something ?
Regards,
Boris.
TIA,
Roy
--
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Re: [gentoo-dev] SCHEDULED DOWNTIME: {cvs,svn}.gentoo.org - 2006-10-05 - 1900UTC - 2300UTC - SERVICE UP AGAIN
On Mon, Oct 02, 2006 at 01:30:43PM -0700, Robin H. Johnson wrote: > We're estimating a worst case of 4 hours at this point, but if > everything goes smoothly, it should be less than 2 hours. All work completed - CVS and SVN are back online again. Took 1 hour 51 minutes. If you see anything wrong, file a bug to infra ;-). -- Robin Hugh Johnson E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG FP : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85 pgpDQjeHNRHoa.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] ruby gems vs. ebuilds
Boris Fersing wrote: > > > AFAIK, the ruby related ebuilds use gem. For example rails has in his > ebuild : > > "inherit ruby gems" > > and if you look in the gems eclass : > > [snip] > And it's the same for rake ! > > The problem might be (that's a supposition only) that gem installs the > files in the image which will be merged to the system by portage and > doesn't install the files directly in the "real" system. > > or maybe did I miss something ? > I stand corrected on the ebuilds. I looked at another of my systems that did not show the problem but had both rake gem and ebuild installed. I'm wondering if it is something to do with "gem update". I've been running two systems in parallel, one for development, one for production. The development system is running testing (~x86) while production system is running stable (x86). The development system is updated daily, the production about once a month. During my recent rails web app development I've been careful to install the same gems at the same time on both systems. I also did a "gem update" on both system about a day before I noticed the problem on my production system. I verified that gem and portage are playing with the same version rake-0.7.1. Then I re-emerged rake on the production system. Running: rake --tasks in the application directory gives this: cowboy current # rake --tasks (in /var/rails/rodeo/releases/20061005042627) /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.14.4/lib/active_record/validations.rb:334: warning: `*' interpreted as argument prefix /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.14.4/lib/active_record/validations.rb:363: warning: `*' interpreted as argument prefix /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.14.4/lib/active_record/migration.rb:224: warning: instance variable @ignore_new_methods not initialized /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.14.4/lib/active_record/migration.rb:224: warning: instance variable @ignore_new_methods not initialized /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.14.4/lib/active_record/connection_adapters/abstract/connection_specification.rb:41: warning: method redefined; discarding old allow_concurrency= /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.14.4/lib/active_record/connection_adapters/sqlserver_adapter.rb:456: warning: method redefined; discarding old remove_column /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/activerecord-1.14.4/lib/active_record/connection_adapters/oracle_adapter.rb:119: warning: (...) interpreted as grouped expression /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/actionpack-1.12.5/lib/action_controller/request.rb:171: warning: method redefined; discarding old relative_url_root /usr/lib/ruby/1.8/cgi/session/pstore.rb:17: warning: method redefined; discarding old []= /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/actionpack-1.12.5/lib/action_controller/cgi_ext/raw_post_data_fix.rb:57: warning: ambiguous first argument; put parentheses or even spaces /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/actionpack-1.12.5/lib/action_controller/cgi_ext/raw_post_data_fix.rb:8: warning: method redefined; discarding old initialize_query /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/actionpack-1.12.5/lib/action_controller/session/active_record_store.rb:129: warning: private attribute? /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/actionpack-1.12.5/lib/action_controller/session/active_record_store.rb:179: warning: method redefined; discarding old connection /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/actionpack-1.12.5/lib/action_view/helpers/prototype_helper.rb:641: warning: ambiguous first argument; put parentheses or even spaces /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/actionpack-1.12.5/lib/action_view/helpers/prototype_helper.rb:874: warning: `*' interpreted as argument prefix /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/actionmailer-1.2.5/lib/action_mailer/vendor/tmail/facade.rb:486: warning: method redefined; discarding old create_reply /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/actionwebservice-1.1.6/lib/action_web_service/protocol/xmlrpc_protocol.rb:6: warning: discarding old message /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rails-1.1.6/lib/initializer.rb:581: warning: method redefined; discarding old []= /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rails-1.1.6/lib/initializer.rb:590: warning: method redefined; discarding old [] /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rails-1.1.6/lib/initializer.rb:595: warning: method redefined; discarding old keys /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rails-1.1.6/lib/initializer.rb:600: warning: method redefined; discarding old find_pair /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rails-1.1.6/lib/initializer.rb:607: warning: method redefined; discarding old []= /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rails-1.1.6/lib/initializer.rb:611: warning: method redefined; discarding old [] /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rails-1.1.6/lib/initializer.rb:615: warning: method redefined; discarding old method_missing rake backgroundrb:remove# Remove backgroundrb from your rails application [snip] unmerging rake, then installing rake via gem solves the problem: cowboy current # emerge --unmerge rake [snip] cowboy current # gem install rake -r Attempting remote installation of 'rake' Success
Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users
Simon Stelling wrote: > Jakub Moc wrote: >>> The missing Stage3 is the real problem. >> Apparently... >> >> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/2006.1/stages/stage3-i686-2006.1.tar.bz2 >> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/amd64/2006.1/stages/stage3-amd64-2006.1.tar.bz2 >> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2006.1/ppc32/stages/stage3-ppc-2006.1.tar.bz2 >> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2006.1/ppc64/stages/stage3-ppc64-32ul-2006.1.tar.bz2 >> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ppc/2006.1/ppc64/stages/stage3-ppc64-64ul-2006.1.tar.bz2 >> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/sparc/2006.1/sparc32/stages/stage3-sparc-2006.1.tar.bz2 >> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/sparc/2006.1/sparc64/stages/stage3-sparc64-2006.1.tar.bz2 >> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/ia64/2006.1/stages/stage3-ia64-2006.1.tar.bz2 >> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/alpha/2006.1/stages/stage3-alpha-2006.1.tar.bz2 >> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/hppa/2006.1/stages/hppa2.0/stage3-hppa2.0-2006.1.tar.bz2 >> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/hppa/2006.1/stages/hppa1.1/stage3-hppa1.1-2006.1.tar.bz2 >> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/mips/2006.1/stages/mips3/stage3-mips3-2006.1.tar.bz2 >> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/mips/2006.1/stages/mips4/stage3-mips4-2006.1.tar.bz2 > > Stop being stupid please, you're only making fun of yourself. I guess I > don't have to explain you how useful a URL is to a _networkless_ > installation, do I? > No... but didn't one download and burn that CD that is being used for the _networkless_ install? One could also download the stage needed, slap it on a usb key, and viola! Of course, the other option, is to use that crazy installer option "Networkless" - I could be wrong, but I do believe that is the option I would choose. (Actually I did this just the other day because of the issues I am having at home with my networking. And it worked splendidly on a P2 366 - so kudos to the releng team) -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] [ANNOUNCE] Bugzilla Account for Gentoo Council
Hi all, FYI, I just created a Bugzilla account for the Council. You can assign/CC us on bugs via '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'. Danny -- Danny van Dyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Gentoo/AMD64 Project, Gentoo Scientific Project -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] NEW SCHEDULED DOWNTIME: {cvs,svn}.gentoo.org - 2006-10-06 - 1900UTC - 2100UTC
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 01:55:17PM -0700, Robin H. Johnson wrote: > On Mon, Oct 02, 2006 at 01:30:43PM -0700, Robin H. Johnson wrote: > > We're estimating a worst case of 4 hours at this point, but if > > everything goes smoothly, it should be less than 2 hours. > All work completed - CVS and SVN are back online again. > Took 1 hour 51 minutes. > > If you see anything wrong, file a bug to infra ;-). Argh. So I spoke a little soon. There seems to be a large performance regression (cvs up taking >400% longer in some cases), so this time tomorrow, I'll be doing some more work on it :-(. There's considerably less to do, so I've only given myself a 2-hour window, and I expect to use 90 minutes of it. -- Robin Hugh Johnson E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG FP : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85 pgp1BgN9cBEja.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo World Domination. a 10 step guide
On 2006.10.04 13:15, Brandon Low wrote: As usual, sweeping new policies or procedures WILL NOT FIX THINGS. [snip] --Brandon Since I have been a Gentoo user, there have been two completely different management styles in use. When drobbins was around, he was like the MD and Gentoo was managed as if it were a single project. Since that time, Gentoo has grown into a loose knit collection of smaller projects all doing their own thing. Higher level collaboration must be happening because releng relay on all the bits coming together but its not much in evidence. There are two options for Gentoo. We can add some reporting and control to make Gentoo appear as a single cohesive project, the price for that is some bureaucracy. Or we can continue management by tribal warfare, as is evidenced by the flame fests on this list. Both take about the same amount of effort from the participants. What we lack to manage Gentoo as a single project is a proactive management body. Regards, Roy Bamford (NeddySeagoon) -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] [DOWNTIME devmanual.gentoo.org]
The DNS records have been pulled[1] for the devmanual due to a complaint[2] by it's original author (Ciaran McCreesh) regarding a violation of it's license. It is my assumption that it will remain off-line until the complaint is resolved in a manner that satisfies both parties. This is just a heads up. Thanks, -Alec Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] PS: While a flamewar will probably ensue; this is not the intent of this mail or of the bug filing. Please keep your unproductive comments off-list and off the bug. I will lock the bug if it becomes necessary. This mail and the bug exist to allow transparency for this situation; I don't want an open field where everyone throws their two cents in just because they can. Only comment if you have something relevant to say. PSS: There may be a more recent complaint, I will find out the date tomorrow. I need to sleep now however and I figured people would be better off knowing where the devmanual went ;) [1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=150231 [2] http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/38567 -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
