Re: how to deceive programs as if I were a local user?

[Kouichiro Iwao]

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 11:17:11AM -0700, Chris Cowart wrote:
> This error means the program tried to look up some name information for
> your UID number and failed. You need to configure the data source in
> /etc/nsswitch.conf:
> 
> group: files cache ldap
> passwd: files cache ldap

I've already set like you showed.
But, not for /compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf .

Configuring nsswitch.conf in linux emulation environment,
the program worked properly.  I did't know I had to set 
/compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf for linux binary compatibility.

Thanks.
-- 
Iwao, Koichiro 
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Re: X-Org problem

[Paul B. Mahol]

On 4/24/09, Ott Koestner  wrote:
> Neal Hogan wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Ott Koestner  wrote:
>>
>>> Dear list,
>>>
>>> After upgrading Xorg from ports to the latest version
>>> xorg-server-1.6.0,1
>>> xorg-7.4_1
>>>
>>> I am experiencing very unpleasant phenomenon, Xorg randomly exiting with
>>> message:
>>>
>>> Apr 24 15:16:16 ott kernel: pid 7445 (Xorg), uid 0: exited on signal 6
>>> Apr 24 15:16:16 ott kdm-bin[1020]: X server for display :0 terminated
>>> unexpectedly
>>>
>>> Also, there is a strange behavior with dual-head mode -- when moving
>>> cursor from one screen to another, the little white arrow remains on the
>>> other screen.
>>>
>>> Please help! What might it be? Recompiled probably everything related to
>>> Xorg. Using Nvidia driver version
>>> nvidia-driver-96.43.11
>>>
>>
>> I'm no expert, but to help those that are, I suggest that you post the
>> contents of your /etc/X11/Xorg.0.log (perhaps a dmesg, too).
>>
>>
> After the crash Xorg is instantly restarted. Probably there is no reason
> to copy the whole log here. Everything looks normal for some time and
> then it restarts just at a random moment. No reason to blame hardware.
> It was stable before pre-previous Xorg server update (over 100 days uptime).
>
> Ill-effects started after I upgraded to xorg-server-1.5.3. Mouse buttons
> started to freeze randomly. That is why I chose to upgrade to
> xorg-server-1.6.0.
> Xorg.0.log.old ends like this:
> ...
> (II) LoadModule: "mouse"
> (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/input//mouse_drv.so
> (II) Module mouse: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
> compiled for 1.6.0, module version = 1.4.0
> Module class: X.Org XInput Driver
> ABI class: X.Org XInput driver, version 4.0
> (**) PS/2 Mouse: Device: "/dev/sysmouse"
> (==) PS/2 Mouse: Protocol: "Auto"
> (**) PS/2 Mouse: always reports core events
> (**) Option "Device" "/dev/sysmouse"
> (==) PS/2 Mouse: Emulate3Buttons, Emulate3Timeout: 50
> (**) PS/2 Mouse: ZAxisMapping: buttons 4 and 5
> (**) PS/2 Mouse: Buttons: 9
> (**) PS/2 Mouse: Sensitivity: 1
> (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "PS/2 Mouse" (type: MOUSE)
> (**) PS/2 Mouse: (accel) keeping acceleration scheme 1
> (**) PS/2 Mouse: (accel) filter chain progression: 2.00
> (**) PS/2 Mouse: (accel) filter stage 0: 20.00 ms
> (**) PS/2 Mouse: (accel) set acceleration profile 0
> (II) PS/2 Mouse: SetupAuto: hw.iftype is 4, hw.model is 0
> (II) PS/2 Mouse: SetupAuto: protocol is SysMouse
>
> Fatal server error:
> Caught signal 11.  Server aborting
>
>
> Please consult the The X.Org Foundation support
>  at http://wiki.x.org
>  for help.
> Please also check the log file at "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" for additional
> information.
>
> (II) UnloadModule: "kbd"
> (II) UnloadModule: "mouse"
> (II) Screen 0 shares mem & io resources
> (II) Screen 1 shares mem & io resources
>
> --
>
> # dmesg | tail -n 15
> pid 6766 (PBReg), uid 1001: exited on signal 10
> pid 6787 (NetworkTray), uid 1001: exited on signal 11
> pid 6796 (NetworkTray), uid 1001: exited on signal 11
> pid 6478 (Xorg), uid 0: exited on signal 6
> pid 7710 (PBReg), uid 1001: exited on signal 10
> pid 7727 (NetworkTray), uid 1001: exited on signal 11
> pid 7730 (NetworkTray), uid 1001: exited on signal 11
> pid 7445 (Xorg), uid 0: exited on signal 6
> pid 8095 (PBReg), uid 1001: exited on signal 10
> pid 8112 (NetworkTray), uid 1001: exited on signal 11
> pid 8115 (NetworkTray), uid 1001: exited on signal 11
> pid 7797 (Xorg), uid 0: exited on signal 6
> pid 47182 (PBReg), uid 1001: exited on signal 10
> pid 47199 (NetworkTray), uid 1001: exited on signal 11
> pid 47200 (NetworkTray), uid 1001: exited on signal 11
>
>
>
>>
>>> With best regards,
>>> Ott Koestner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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I saw on svn-head that signal 6 crash is caused by FreeBSD
malloc/libc, and is fixed on CURRENT but that may not be related to
your problem.

-- 
Paul
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Re: maybe OT, but involves OOO its slideshow fmt, ``Impress''

[Polytropon]

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:18:43 -0700, Gary Kline  wrote:
>   yes, the voices [from audio/festival] are pretty good; i use
>   them to read boring stuff
>   to me when i'm about brain-dead!  but these voices just don't cut
>   it given the kind of quasi-poetic stuff i have.

Wouldn't it be easier to use a natural speaker then? I know there's
no such person in the ports collection... :-)



-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: how to deceive programs as if I were a local user?

[Ruben de Groot]

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 05:34:16PM +0900, Kouichiro Iwao typed:
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 11:17:11AM -0700, Chris Cowart wrote:
> > This error means the program tried to look up some name information for
> > your UID number and failed. You need to configure the data source in
> > /etc/nsswitch.conf:
> > 
> > group: files cache ldap
> > passwd: files cache ldap
> 
> I've already set like you showed.
> But, not for /compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf .
> 
> Configuring nsswitch.conf in linux emulation environment,
> the program worked properly.  I did't know I had to set 
> /compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf for linux binary compatibility.

That's interesting. Was there a /compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf before?
I think that if it's not there, the linux emulation layer should take
the system's /etc/nsswitch.conf as default. But I might be wrong(TM).

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mergemaster -U overwriting modified files

[Peter Schuller]

I recently began testing mergemaster -U since the perpetual "review
diff of file I never touched" grows annoying real quick.

Unfortunately I recently discovered that it does not seem to do what
you might expect. For example it nuked my mailer.conf on one machine,
and my /etc/namedb/named.conf (!!!) on another machine.

Is this a bug or intended? What is the intended functionality of -U?

-- 
/ Peter Schuller

PGP userID: 0xE9758B7D or 'Peter Schuller '
Key retrieval: Send an E-Mail to getpgp...@scode.org
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Re: Modern FreeBSD Installer?

[cpghost]

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:20:00AM -0500, Martin McCormick wrote:
> Wojciech Puchar writes:
> > as you can do everything easily in text mode, it just points out that GUI
> > installer is nonsense.
> 
> The real problem happens when the GUI is considered to
> be all anybody needs. 

I think there's no need to worry (yet). Some of us use FreeBSD on
headless systems (which often don't even have the VGA and keyboard
circuitry). And of course, we install via remote serial consoles.
Anything purely GUI-oriented with no alternative would mean instant
migration to OpenBSD or another OS for purely practical reasons.

So, no, I don't see text-based sysinstall disappear anytime soon. ;-)

> Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK 
> Systems Engineer
> OSU Information Technology Department Telecommunications Services Group

-cpghost.

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Re: mergemaster -U overwriting modified files

[Bruce Cran]

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:10:42 +0200
Peter Schuller  wrote:

> I recently began testing mergemaster -U since the perpetual "review
> diff of file I never touched" grows annoying real quick.
> 
> Unfortunately I recently discovered that it does not seem to do what
> you might expect. For example it nuked my mailer.conf on one machine,
> and my /etc/namedb/named.conf (!!!) on another machine.
> 
> Is this a bug or intended? What is the intended functionality of -U?
> 

I noticed this recently too: after using mergemaster -U without
problems for a long time it suddenly went and overwrote named.conf on
a recently upgrade of 7-STABLE.

-- 
Bruce Cran
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Re: maybe OT, but involves OOO its slideshow fmt, ``Impress''

[Polytropon]

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:20:45 -0500, Andrew Gould  
wrote:
> I've never done video editing on FreeBSD; but on a Mac, you can create a
> movie using slides and a sound file (wav, mp3, etc).  You would need an
> application that could import images and sound, and let you sync the two by
> assigning the order and duration of each slide.  It would then have to spit
> out a movie file, of course.
> 
> Any video editing (on FreeBSD) knowledge out there?

No knowledge, but idea: As you know, mencoder can do everything.
So it should be possible to create something like a strain of
image files (like "animated GIF") and put it together with a
sound file then. This could be done for smaller pieces first
(one slide + text speech), and then the slides could be
concatenated to create the whole video file.

The file format should be a standardized and free format in
first position, and for those who cannot ("Windows") or are
not allowed to (?) use them, formats like MPEG and AVI could
be added.

if mencoder can't do the thing with the images, maybe it's
worth taking a look at ImageMagick and its convert command.


> Another option is a python script that uses vnc to create a shockwave flash
> file from your actions on your desktop:
> http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/vnc2swf/
> 
> The script is able to import a sound file that you record while you create
> the demo.

Interesting idea, but I would suggest to avoid "Flash" whenever possible.
But to continue this idea: If the output is a simple .flv file, it could
be turned into something standardized using mencoder again. I've used
youtube-dl and mencoder to do so - but only three times! I swear it's
true! :-) (After "Flash" annoyed me so much on web pages, I decided
to relapse my system into a "Flash"-free state.



-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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RE: freebsd vs. pc-bsd

[Charles Oppermann]

> If your willing to buy books concerning FreeBSD I'd suggest Absolute
> FreeBSD 2nd edition (if you have use Unix like systems) or FreeBSD
> Unleashed 6 (though it was published at the of FreeBSD 6 it is still
> very applicable and provides introduction to Unix like systems).

Second the recommendation on both books.  I recently found booksellers
discounting "FreeBSD Unleashed 6" and was able to pick it up for $14USD at a
local retailer.  It's still very applicable to FreeBSD 7.x versions.

I think "Absolute FreeBSD" (2nd Edition) is also acceptable even if you
haven't been exposed much to Unix-based operating systems.  It just goes
through the introduction quicker.  It's mainly for people who wish to run
FreeBSD in a server environment, as opposed to a desktop environment.



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Re: how to deceive programs as if I were a local user?

[Kouichiro Iwao]

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 11:22:22AM +0200, Ruben de Groot wrote:
> > Configuring nsswitch.conf in linux emulation environment,
> > the program worked properly.  I did't know I had to set 
> > /compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf for linux binary compatibility.
> 
> That's interesting. Was there a /compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf before?
> I think that if it's not there, the linux emulation layer should take
> the system's /etc/nsswitch.conf as default. But I might be wrong(TM).

What does TM mean? :-(

Yes. I didn't make /compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf but just modified
the file that had already existed. I also configured 
/compat/linux/etc/yp.conf and /compat/linux/etc/sysconfig/network to
use NIS.

I examined the linux emulator takes /compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf.

/etc/nsswitch.conf:
$ grep -v -e ^$ -e ^# /etc/nsswitch.conf 
group: compat
group_compat: nis
hosts: files dns
networks: files
passwd: compat
passwd_compat: nis
shells: files
services: compat
services_compat: nis
protocols: files
rpc: files

/compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf:
$ grep -v -e ^$ -e ^# /compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf
passwd: files nis
shadow: files nis
group:  files nis
hosts:  files dns
bootparams: nisplus [NOTFOUND=return] files
ethers: files
netmasks:   files
networks:   files
protocols:  files
rpc:files
services:   files
netgroup:   nisplus
publickey:  nisplus
automount:  files nisplus
aliases:files nisplus

And the sample program "sample.c":
#include
#include
#include

int main(){
struct passwd *pw;
pw = getpwuid(getuid()); 
if(pw){
printf("success\n");
} else {
printf("error\n");
}  
}

I compiled the sample for both freebsd and linux binaries.
With the setting above I ran each binary, both binaries resulted success.

But when "nis" is not written in linux emulation environment's nsswitch.conf,
the linux binary results error.

-- 
Iwao, Koichiro 
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Re: freebsd vs. pc-bsd

[Andrew Gould]

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Charles Oppermann wrote:

> > If your willing to buy books concerning FreeBSD I'd suggest Absolute
> > FreeBSD 2nd edition (if you have use Unix like systems) or FreeBSD
> > Unleashed 6 (though it was published at the of FreeBSD 6 it is still
> > very applicable and provides introduction to Unix like systems).
>
> Second the recommendation on both books.  I recently found booksellers
> discounting "FreeBSD Unleashed 6" and was able to pick it up for $14USD at
> a
> local retailer.  It's still very applicable to FreeBSD 7.x versions.
>
> I think "Absolute FreeBSD" (2nd Edition) is also acceptable even if you
> haven't been exposed much to Unix-based operating systems.  It just goes
> through the introduction quicker.  It's mainly for people who wish to run
> FreeBSD in a server environment, as opposed to a desktop environment.
>
>
If you don't understand networking, I'd add a third recommendation for
"Absolute FreeBSD."  Understanding networking at some level will help
troubleshoot many problems and will help you understand many security
issues.  Michael Lucas makes it easy to learn.

Andrew
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Re: how to deceive programs as if I were a local user?

[Kouichiro Iwao]

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 11:22:22AM +0200, Ruben de Groot wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 05:34:16PM +0900, Kouichiro Iwao typed:
> > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 11:17:11AM -0700, Chris Cowart wrote:
> > > This error means the program tried to look up some name information for
> > > your UID number and failed. You need to configure the data source in
> > > /etc/nsswitch.conf:
> > > 
> > > group: files cache ldap
> > > passwd: files cache ldap
> > 
> > I've already set like you showed.
> > But, not for /compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf .
> > 
> > Configuring nsswitch.conf in linux emulation environment,
> > the program worked properly.  I did't know I had to set 
> > /compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf for linux binary compatibility.
> 
> That's interesting. Was there a /compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf before?
> I think that if it's not there, the linux emulation layer should take
> the system's /etc/nsswitch.conf as default. But I might be wrong(TM).
> 

Sorry, I misunderstood what you meant.

# cd /compat/linux/etc
# mv nsswitch.conf nsswitch.conf.dummy

And I ran the sample program, the linux binary resuled success.
The linux emulator seems to take the /etc/nsswitch.conf.

However, it is true that /compat/linux/etc/nsswitch.conf had already
existed when I was going to edit.

-- 
Iwao, Koichiro 
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Re: maybe OT, but involves OOO its slideshow fmt, ``Impress''

[Andrew Gould]

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Polytropon  wrote:

> On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:18:43 -0700, Gary Kline  wrote:
> >   yes, the voices [from audio/festival] are pretty good; i use
> >   them to read boring stuff
> >   to me when i'm about brain-dead!  but these voices just don't cut
> >   it given the kind of quasi-poetic stuff i have.
>
> Wouldn't it be easier to use a natural speaker then? I know there's
> no such person in the ports collection... :-)
>
>
This is a very good point.  (Especially since Majel Barrett-Roddenberry,
voice of the computer in the original tv series of "Star Trek," is no longer
with us.)

Writings of such a human nature deserve a real human's voice and
interpretation.
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libMG.so.2 not found, required by portmanager

[Jose Luis Alarcon Sanchez]

Hello.

My favourite ports manager is portmanager. But after the last fresh install 
of PcBSD 7.1 "Galileo Edition", when i run portmanager i get this only output
line:

/libexec/ld-elf.so.1: Shared object "libMG.so.2" not found, required by 
"portmanager"

Into the directory /usr/local/lib/ there are a file named libMG.so.2

Any help whith this, please?. Where is the problem?.

Thanks very much, in advance.

Regards.

Jose.

-- 

Not Registered GNU/Hurd User.
Registered BSD User 51101.
Registered Linux User #213309.
Memories. You are talking about memories.
Rick Deckard. Blade Runner.
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Re: maybe OT, but involves OOO its slideshow fmt, ``Impress''

[Polytropon]

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 07:47:04 -0500, Andrew Gould  
wrote:
> This is a very good point.  (Especially since Majel Barrett-Roddenberry,
> voice of the computer in the original tv series of "Star Trek," is no longer
> with us.)

You could employ the computer voice woman from "The Andromeda
Strain" (the movie by Robert Wise). :-)



> Writings of such a human nature deserve a real human's voice and
> interpretation.

You can do a lot with synthesized spoken language, but the
human "voice perception apparatus" reacts to them differently
than it does to a native (natural) voice, even if both say the
same text.

For example, the "Die Bahn" (our federal-wide railway company
for transportation of persons) uses a synthetic voice on some
stations. This voice is harder to understand when coming out
of the PA loudspeakers than the previously used natural human
voice was, allthough the human voice ocassionally spoke with
some accent or dialect ("Layptsh Houbtbarnhouf, alls nars
hibbe!" or "Beet olls arsshtoygn, dees Tsoog is karpoot!")
While the brain does automatically "correct" language properties
such as a (strange) dialect or accent, it searches for similar
patterns in the synthetic language (because it simply doesn't
sound "correct"), but cannot find them.


-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: maybe OT, but involves OOO its slideshow fmt, ``Impress''

[Wojciech Puchar]

You can do a lot with synthesized spoken language, but the
human "voice perception apparatus" reacts to them differently
than it does to a native (natural) voice, even if both say the
same text.


until someone will make speech synthetizer good enough ;)

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Re: Modern FreeBSD Installer?

[Wojciech Puchar]

I think there's no need to worry (yet). Some of us use FreeBSD on
headless systems (which often don't even have the VGA and keyboard
circuitry). And of course, we install via remote serial consoles.
Anything purely GUI-oriented with no alternative would mean instant
migration to OpenBSD or another OS for purely practical reasons.


AFAIK OpenBSD isn't GUI oriented. Linux is, and windows



So, no, I don't see text-based sysinstall disappear anytime soon. ;-)


Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK
Systems Engineer
OSU Information Technology Department Telecommunications Services Group


-cpghost.

--
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LIoyds TSB Online Account Update

[LIoyds TSB Bank Plc]

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   Dear Customer,
   
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   unauthorised use.

   This message has been sent to you from LIoyds Bank because we have
   noticed invalid login
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   restricting your
   account access until we confirm your identity.

   To confirm your identity and remove your account
   limitation please following the link below.

   
   
   [1]Please Click Here To Start

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Software raid5 through a sata port multiplier

[Maxim Khitrov]

Hello all,

I'm building a file server that must use an external sata hard drive
enclosure. It will begin with 3 2TB (RE4-GP) hard drives and expand as
needed. I've looked at 3ware and Areca hardware raid controllers with
external sata/sas ports and currently have some doubts of whether the
cost can justify the performance. This is also an addition of yet
another piece of hardware that can fail.

The machine is using a Q6600 processor with 8 GB of memory, so I'm
thinking that a software raid5 solution may not be such a bad idea.
The question is what port multiplier hardware does FreeBSD 7 support?
I found an 8-bay rosewill enclosure that claims to use
Sil3726/Sil3132R5 controllers. Is there a driver that supports these,
and if so, what throughput can I expect from this setup (compared to
hardware raid alternatives)?

- Max
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Re: Banwidth limited to 800kb per connection

[Steve Bertrand]

Wojciech Puchar wrote:
>>
>> When downloading files over FTP (proftpd) or HTTP (apache 2.2) I only
>> get about 800kb/s, uploading seems to have the same limit (couldn't
>> test it really, as my line stops at abount 860kb/s). When I start
>> multiple downloads, I get 800kb/s for each transfer, up to about
>> 5000kb/s, which is the limit of my downstream at home.
>>
>> Is there some kind of traffic shaping or QOS somewhere?
>>
> 
> or ethernet autonegotiation problems  - one side gets full duplex other
> half duplex.

I agree.

Check the interface on the device that connects into their network. You
will likely see all sorts of interface errors.

Try having them force to 100/Full, and you do the same at your end.

Steve
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X and optimizing Kernel Resources

[Christopher Chambers]

Hi,

Is there a guide that talks about how to optimize the kernel memory
resources (kern.ipc.shmmax, etc)?

-- 
Christopher Chambers 

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Converting the partition type

[Christopher Chambers]

Hi,

I have an msdos partition with a large amount of data. Is there a way to
convert to a ufs partition without having to remove the data off the
partition first?

-- 
Christopher Chambers 

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Re: Converting the partition type

[Wojciech Puchar]

IMHO there are no converters

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009, Christopher Chambers wrote:


Hi,

I have an msdos partition with a large amount of data. Is there a way to
convert to a ufs partition without having to remove the data off the
partition first?

--
Christopher Chambers 

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Re: Banwidth limited to 800kb per connection

[Wojciech Puchar]

I agree.

Check the interface on the device that connects into their network. You
will likely see all sorts of interface errors.

Try having them force to 100/Full, and you do the same at your end.

it's VERY common when other end is cisco switch ;) and nothing helps 
except using other NIC.


i have that problem with the ISP one place - the only card that worked 
well was ordinary RTL8139.

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Re: Software raid5 through a sata port multiplier

[Wojciech Puchar]

thinking that a software raid5 solution may not be such a bad idea.


software raid5 isn't any more bad than hardware raid5 most cases.

just raid5 is bad if you use it in ANY type of load except:

a) mostly reads - then set LARGE RAID stripe size
b) mostly huge files - then set small RAID stripe size to have highest 
single thread transfer, or large to have higher concurency.


EVERY OTHER case is bad case for RAID5 - just remember small write on 
RAID5=2 reads+2 writes on disks.




The question is what port multiplier hardware does FreeBSD 7 support?


it unfortunately doesn't. but your hardware RAID controllers drive disks 
by itself and presents virtual drives to system, and system has nothing to 
do with it.

so ask manufacturer if it supports port multipliers.

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Re: maybe OT, but involves OOO its slideshow fmt, ``Impress''

[Gary Kline]

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 11:08:59AM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:18:43 -0700, Gary Kline  wrote:
> > yes, the voices [from audio/festival] are pretty good; i use
> > them to read boring stuff
> > to me when i'm about brain-dead!  but these voices just don't cut
> > it given the kind of quasi-poetic stuff i have.
> 
> Wouldn't it be easier to use a natural speaker then? I know there's
> no such person in the ports collection... :-)
> 

One of my friends from my writing group would be perfect, but he 
won't do it.  Not even for money!  [?]

Before I try to find a real-life-human, :), I'd like to first
find some snapshots/photos.  

gary


> 
> 
> -- 
> Polytropon
> From Magdeburg, Germany
> Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
> Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...

-- 
 Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org
The 2.41a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php

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Re: maybe OT, but involves OOO its slideshow fmt, ``Impress''

[Gary Kline]

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 07:47:04AM -0500, Andrew Gould wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 4:08 AM, Polytropon  wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:18:43 -0700, Gary Kline  wrote:
> > >   yes, the voices [from audio/festival] are pretty good; i use
> > >   them to read boring stuff
> > >   to me when i'm about brain-dead!  but these voices just don't cut
> > >   it given the kind of quasi-poetic stuff i have.
> >
> > Wouldn't it be easier to use a natural speaker then? I know there's
> > no such person in the ports collection... :-)
> >
> >
> This is a very good point.  (Especially since Majel Barrett-Roddenberry,
> voice of the computer in the original tv series of "Star Trek," is no longer
> with us.)
> 
> Writings of such a human nature deserve a real human's voice and
> interpretation.


The one thing my friend said was: "The first time I read this
stuff it sounds fine and makes sense.  Then I stop and re-read
and I get lost."   

I'm glad I took Chuck Robey's advice and used a poetic notation
rather than just plain prose.  With poetry, you can use imagery
and symbology, etc.  You can get across more in poetry than
prose, but it's a bear to learn to do well.

gary



-- 
 Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org
The 2.41a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php

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Long HTTP connection delays in LAN

[Reinis Ivanovs]

Hello,

I have a strange HTTP connectivity problem in my LAN. There is a
FreeBSD 7.1 system that runs the httpd, a Vista system that I use to
connect to it, and a Tomato 1.23 WRT54GL router between them. It often
occurs that I can ping the FreeBSD system just fine, but HTTP
connections get "stuck" for minutes on end. After they become
"unstuck", everything works normally for a while, and then the problem
might come back. I know the httpd is running fine during those times
because there are no delays connecting locally or from outside the
LAN. It seems I also get similar delays when I try to connect to the
router's web administration panel. There are so many variables that
I'm not sure whether the problem lies with FreeBSD or something else.
I'm hoping somebody with more networking experience could give me some
hints about where to look, because I'm seriously stuck.

Best,
R. 
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The FreeBSD Diary: 2009-04-25

[Dan Langille]

The FreeBSD Diary contains a large number of practical 
examples and how-to guides.  This message is posted weekly
to freebsd-questions@freebsd.org with the aim of letting people
know what's available on the website.  Before you post a question
here it might be a good idea to first search the mailing list 
archives  
and/or The FreeBSD Diary . 

RECENT ARTICLES:

2-Dec : Obscuring smtp auth headers
 If you consider your smtp-auth location to be private, this is what you 
want. 
 http://freebsddiary.org/smtp-headers-rewrite-auth.php?2

29-Nov : OpenVPN - creating a routed VPN
 If you have multiple VPN clients, this is a practical solution. 
 http://freebsddiary.org/openvpn-routed.php?2

27-Nov : Creating your own Certificate Authority
 How to create a CA and generate your own SSL certificates
 http://freebsddiary.org/openvpn-easy-rsa.php?2

27-Nov : OpenVPN - getting it running
 Using OpenVPN to create a secure pathway between home and office 
 http://freebsddiary.org/openvpn.php?2

5-Oct : Removing dead mailing lists from Mailman
 Mailing lists can outlive their usefulness 
 http://freebsddiary.org/mailman-removing-dead-lists.php?2

30-Aug : gmirror - recovering from a failed HDD
 an HDD failed.  gmirror to the rescue. 
 http://freebsddiary.org/gmirror-failure.php?2

6-Jul : ezjail - A jail administration framework
 This makes jails easier 
 http://freebsddiary.org/ezjail.php?2

24-Jun : Adding gmirror to an existing installation
 Adding RAID-1 to an existing FreeBSD 7 installation
 http://freebsddiary.org/gmirror.php?2

20-Mar : ThinkPad x61s
 Unpacking the box, installing PC-BSD 
 http://freebsddiary.org/thinkpad-x61s.php?2

17-Mar : Using two monitors with X.org
 The GeForce 8600 GT with two monitors 
 http://freebsddiary.org/xorg-two-screens.php?2


-- 
Dan Langille
BSDCan - http://www.BSDCan.org/ - BSD Conference

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Re: portmaster -a on a live server

[Tom Worster]

On 4/23/09 12:54 AM, "Mel Flynn"
 wrote:

> On Wednesday 22 April 2009 17:37:06 Tom Worster wrote:
> 
>> by the by, on my test machine i ended up with python installed. seems to be
>> because i needed php5-gd which now depends on python. all for some simple
>> freetype2 calls.
> 
> Wrong assumption. php-gd doesn't depend on python at all. devel/apr does, so
> you've built php with apache module and that pulls in python OR you didn't set
> WITHOUT_X11=yes when building, so libxcb is pulled in which uses python:
> 
> % sudo /stable/root/bin/finddep.php graphics/php5-gd lang/python26
> /usr/ports/x11/xcb-proto: /usr/local/bin/python2.6 => /usr/ports/lang/python26
> /usr/ports/x11/xcb-proto: /usr/local/bin/python2.6 => /usr/ports/lang/python26
> /usr/ports/x11/libxcb: /usr/local/bin/python2.6 => /usr/ports/lang/python26
> /usr/ports/x11/libxcb: /usr/local/bin/python2.6 => /usr/ports/lang/python26
> /usr/ports/devel/apr: /usr/local/bin/python2.6 => /usr/ports/lang/python26
> 
> % sudo env WITHOUT_X11=yes /stable/root/bin/finddep.php graphics/php5-gd
> lang/python26
> /usr/ports/devel/apr: /usr/local/bin/python2.6 => /usr/ports/lang/python26

thanks for the tip, mel. i got rid of the ports involved and reinstalled
with WITHOUT_X11=yes and the install was faster and things are a lot tidier.

i had no idea that i ought to be configuring port builds with env vars. is
there documentation anywhere so i find out about these options in gneral?



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Re: maybe OT, but involves OOO its slideshow fmt, ``Impress''

[Gary Kline]

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 06:08:36PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
> >You can do a lot with synthesized spoken language, but the
> >human "voice perception apparatus" reacts to them differently
> >than it does to a native (natural) voice, even if both say the
> >same text.
> 
> until someone will make speech synthetizer good enough ;)


i spent several hours yesterday poking around at the
natural-voice and the entirely synthetic methodology of
spoken language.  the first is tricky enough.  the second 
method that emulates the vocal mechanics probably gets into
complexity theory!  so maybe in another 50-75 years... .

gary

> 

-- 
 Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org
The 2.41a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php

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Re: Modern FreeBSD Installer?

[Tim Judd]

Reading the second half of these mailings got me thinking.  Thinking of ways
to detect what CAN be done, and what CAN'T -- based entirely on the hardware
at boot.  I think that we might come to a middle ground to get something
working.  Here's my thought process right now, with hopefully ample samples
to example my angle (that was fun to say).


It's based on two principles.  First is the CPU class.  If it's a 486 or
586, run a pure dialog(3) interface.  If it's a slow 686 (and the fudge
factor to define slow is based on Xorg's *recommended* CPU specs + the
software installation CPU/RAM needs), run the dialog(3) interface.  If it's
a fast 686, default to a X environment.

Second (which ties into the first) is the hardware that was probed during
boot-time.  If a /dev entry (or even some sysctl) exists for a pci/agp/pci-e
device, it can run a graphical installer.  If it finds none of the graphical
adapters, and sees serial ports, enable the dialog(3) as well.  I feel like
some pseudo-code might help paint the picture more.


text-mode_install = graphic-mode_install = false
if (CPUCLASS<=586 || CPUSPEED<=(Xorg-suggested-minimums+install
requirements)) {
  set text-mode_install true
} else {
  set graphic-mode_install true
}
if (found(VGA-graphics) && graphic-mode_install) {
  exec xinstall
} else {
  # enable console installer
  exec sysinstall
}



I seem to find this very logical and can't (yet) see any flaws with doing
this.  sysinstall is built, we'd just need to maintain it and create the
x-based installer.  Run it with a minimalist (twm?) startup so we don't
waste time booting.

I've also thought about the concept of a web-ui installer, even if it's run
from the local machine.  The benefit of a webui installer is that you can
give the disk to someone, tell them to put it up on a publically available
IP address and just sit back and let it run.  but I ramble on



And also brainstorming now has brought me another idea about installing base
with the concerns Jordan Hubbard wrote in 2000 mentioned in this thread.
Again based on the hardware probed (this one being the amount of RAM in the
box, in contrast to the amount of disk space needed to install on disk),
create a in-ram disk as the staging area when you write to disk.  The other
idea is to use dump/restore instead of tar files.

It is possible to have a 3GHz machine with 256MB ram as a valid combination,
but when bin distribution is about 128MB in size, and kernel distribution is
128MB in size, and blindly running an X install -- not wise.



Last idea is to do similar to what Ubuntu (used to) do.  Provide a X-based
installer CD and a console-based installer CD.


I'd be happy to provide feedback; these were brainstorming ideas and would
really like to see progress move toward a more eye-candy installer.




Thanks.
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Re: Modern FreeBSD Installer?

[Erik Trulsson]

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 05:45:49PM -0600, Tim Judd wrote:
> Reading the second half of these mailings got me thinking.  Thinking of ways
> to detect what CAN be done, and what CAN'T -- based entirely on the hardware
> at boot.  I think that we might come to a middle ground to get something
> working.  Here's my thought process right now, with hopefully ample samples
> to example my angle (that was fun to say).
> 
> 
> It's based on two principles.  First is the CPU class.  If it's a 486 or
> 586, run a pure dialog(3) interface.  If it's a slow 686 (and the fudge
> factor to define slow is based on Xorg's *recommended* CPU specs + the
> software installation CPU/RAM needs), run the dialog(3) interface.  If it's
> a fast 686, default to a X environment.

As long as you have sufficient RAM (and you don't actually need all that
much of it) running X on an older CPU should not be much of a problem.
(Unless X.org has bloated really badly over the last couple of years.)



> 
> Second (which ties into the first) is the hardware that was probed during
> boot-time.  If a /dev entry (or even some sysctl) exists for a pci/agp/pci-e
> device, it can run a graphical installer.  If it finds none of the graphical
> adapters, and sees serial ports, enable the dialog(3) as well.  I feel like
> some pseudo-code might help paint the picture more.
> 
> 
> text-mode_install = graphic-mode_install = false
> if (CPUCLASS<=586 || CPUSPEED<=(Xorg-suggested-minimums+install
> requirements)) {
>   set text-mode_install true
> } else {
>   set graphic-mode_install true
> }
> if (found(VGA-graphics) && graphic-mode_install) {
>   exec xinstall
> } else {
>   # enable console installer
>   exec sysinstall
> }
> 
> 
> 
> I seem to find this very logical and can't (yet) see any flaws with doing
> this.  sysinstall is built, we'd just need to maintain it and create the
> x-based installer.  Run it with a minimalist (twm?) startup so we don't
> waste time booting.


That logic will often do the wrong thing for servers.  They are the most
common case where people want to install using a serial console, but
typically do have a (fairly simple) graphical adapter and could run a
graphical installer perfectly well.  That does not necessarily mean
that the person doing the install wants to do it. 

Better would be to check (somehow) for the presence of a keyboard and a
screen.  If those are not present forget about X.  If they are present
then the user at least has a possibility of using X.



Also keep in mind that there are graphical adapters/screen combinations
where X will not work correctly without first tweaking configuration files.
Things have improved greatly here in recent years, but it is still
not perfect.
Text mode is still a good deal more compatible with all kinds of weird
hardware.



> 
> I've also thought about the concept of a web-ui installer, even if it's run
> from the local machine.  The benefit of a webui installer is that you can
> give the disk to someone, tell them to put it up on a publically available
> IP address and just sit back and let it run.  but I ramble on
> 
> 
> 
> And also brainstorming now has brought me another idea about installing base
> with the concerns Jordan Hubbard wrote in 2000 mentioned in this thread.
> Again based on the hardware probed (this one being the amount of RAM in the
> box, in contrast to the amount of disk space needed to install on disk),
> create a in-ram disk as the staging area when you write to disk.  The other
> idea is to use dump/restore instead of tar files.
> 
> It is possible to have a 3GHz machine with 256MB ram as a valid combination,
> but when bin distribution is about 128MB in size, and kernel distribution is
> 128MB in size, and blindly running an X install -- not wise.
> 
> 
> 
> Last idea is to do similar to what Ubuntu (used to) do.  Provide a X-based
> installer CD and a console-based installer CD.
> 
> 
> I'd be happy to provide feedback; these were brainstorming ideas and would
> really like to see progress move toward a more eye-candy installer.

I fail to see what the point of an X-based install would be - other than
pure eye-candy, which does not seem very important for something like an
installer which is used so rarely.


-- 

Erik Trulsson
ertr1...@student.uu.se
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Why top never shows ~100% CPU usage with heavy load?

[Yuri]

When I have 2-3 compilation processes running entirely in memory and an 
empty cycle (for (;;) {}) I only see 6-20% CPU load of each process.
Total that 'top -C' never even approaches 100% that it actually should 
be and is usually ~40%.

'load averages' field though becomes high: over 3.

Why CPU load never goes to 100%?

Yuri

7.1-STABLE

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openwebmail undefined subroutine

[Noah]

Hi there,

any clues why this is happening?
I have Compress::Zlib installs.

Undefined subroutine &Compress::Zlib::memGzip called at
/usr/local/www/cgi-bin/openwebmail/shares/ow-shared.pl line 1212.

Cheers,
Noah


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Re: tnftpd, lukemftpd and conversions

[Rudolf Cejka]

Daniel Feenberg wrote (2009/04/24):
> and from the motd message I can see that the server is using this 
> configuration file. The compress program has been copied to 
> /var/ftp/bin/compress so it should be available too.
\
>From /usr/bin/compress? Are you using chroot in ftpd? Did you tried
to perform chroot and run /bin/compress yourself? Isn't there
missing libc?

-- 
Rudolf Cejka  http://www.fit.vutbr.cz/~cejkar
Brno University of Technology, Faculty of Information Technology
Bozetechova 2, 612 66  Brno, Czech Republic
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Re: CVS history access?

[Giorgos Keramidas]

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 05:35:34 -0400, John Nielsen  wrote:
> I'm working on a machine learning project and I'd like to use the
> FreeBSD src CVS commit history as a datasource. Is there a
> resource-friendly way for me to download some or all of it? Format
> isn't too big an issue.
>
> I tried a few "cvs history" commands against the anoncvs servers but
> get this: cvs [history aborted]: cannot open history file:
> /home/ncvs/CVSROOT/history: No such file or directory

Do you really want just the `CVSROOT/history' file?  We allow mirroring
of the entire repository, which you can then use to extract any sort of
historical commit data.  (Well, _almost_ anything.  Some things like
repo-copies and renames of raw repository files have been done without
any sort of record, so it may be impossible to recover *those*
particular bits.)

We also have a Subversion repository now, that you can use to grab
commit information.  It takes slightly more disk space than the CVS
repository, but subversion can export XML formatted commit logs, which
may be slightly more useful if you plan to automate parts of the parsing
and info-gathering.



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Description: PGP signature

Re: tnftpd, lukemftpd and conversions

[Daniel Feenberg]

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009, Rudolf Cejka wrote:


Daniel Feenberg wrote (2009/04/24):

and from the motd message I can see that the server is using this
configuration file. The compress program has been copied to
/var/ftp/bin/compress so it should be available too.

\

From /usr/bin/compress? Are you using chroot in ftpd? Did you tried

to perform chroot and run /bin/compress yourself? Isn't there
missing libc?


Yes, that looks like the problem. I found a copy of the example file in 
the examples directory of /usr/ports/ftp/tnftpd and there is more 
information there. I'll try to compile compress statically or make copies 
of the libraries. (Also, I missed the -c option to compress).


Thank You

Daniel Feenberg



--
Rudolf Cejka  http://www.fit.vutbr.cz/~cejkar
Brno University of Technology, Faculty of Information Technology
Bozetechova 2, 612 66  Brno, Czech Republic


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Hardwire drive0 to ad0 on hw raid.

[Leon Meßner]

Hi,

i'm having a problem with the disk numbering of RAID arrays (3ware
9650SE). When i boot, the array with my system is always the last 
numbered drive (ATM its ad16). This array is on its own controller. 
lsdev in the loader shows the array as drive0 (first BIOS drive i
assume). 
Is there a way to hardwire this to ad0 as i dont want my system
array to have different numbers when booting with different amounts 
of drives attached to the system. 
I couldn't find any hints on this in the 3ware manuals or
controller-setup.

Thanks in Advance,
Leon

FWIW: This is on FreeBSD-7.1-p5 (latest binary update).


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Hardwire drive0 to ad0 on hw raid.

[Tim Judd]

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Leon Meßner
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> i'm having a problem with the disk numbering of RAID arrays (3ware
> 9650SE). When i boot, the array with my system is always the last
> numbered drive (ATM its ad16). This array is on its own controller.
> lsdev in the loader shows the array as drive0 (first BIOS drive i
> assume).
> Is there a way to hardwire this to ad0 as i dont want my system
> array to have different numbers when booting with different amounts
> of drives attached to the system.
> I couldn't find any hints on this in the 3ware manuals or
> controller-setup.
>
> Thanks in Advance,
> Leon
>
> FWIW: This is on FreeBSD-7.1-p5 (latest binary update).
>


That's one of the advantages of putting labels on a filesystem.  You then
specify in fstab that you mount by it's label versus the device name
directly.

And just so you don't go around and around in circles -- tunefs will create
/dev/ufs and geom_label/glabel will create /dev/label


There is a bug report to clarify the docs I submitted about this.

To clear /dev/label, you use glabel, to clear /dev/ufs, you use tunefs
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Re: Converting the partition type

[Modulok]

On 4/25/09, Christopher Chambers  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have an msdos partition with a large amount of data. Is there a way to
> convert to a ufs partition without having to remove the data off the
> partition first?
>

>> IMHO there are no converters.

I second that. I know of no such utility either.
-Modulok-
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Re: cvsup-mirror

[Tim Judd]

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Tim Judd  wrote:

> I am having quite the issue with a cvsup-mirror install (1.3_8) here.  It
> seems to be keeping some meta information file somewhere and has FAILED to
> give me a local mirror (not one to be publicly available) yet.
>
>
> Being the stubborn person I am, I have multiple times cleared some and all
> of the following to try to resolve the problem...
>
> /usr/local/etc/cvsup
> the package itself
> /home/ncvs
> /home/cvsupin
> /usr/ports/ports/net/cvsup-mirror
>
>
>
> And each time it takes ~5 hours to download 1.5GB of data in /home/ncvs
> then a client connecting to itself fails to work.  Latest problem is
>
> -- Quote
> Server warning: Cannot open
> "/usr/local/etc/cvsup/prefixes/FreeBSD.cvs/src/gnu/lib/libgmp/mpz/get_si.c,v":
> No such file or directory
> Server warning: Cannot open
> "/usr/local/etc/cvsup/prefixes/FreeBSD.cvs/src/gnu/lib/libgmp/mpz/get_str.c,v":
> No such file or directory
> Server warning: Cannot open
> "/usr/local/etc/cvsup/prefixes/FreeBSD.cvs/src/gnu/lib/libgmp/mpz/get_ui.c,v":
> No such file or directory
> Server warning: Cannot open
> "/usr/local/etc/cvsup/prefixes/FreeBSD.cvs/src/gnu/lib/libgmp/mpz/getlimbn.c,v":
> No such file or directory
> -- /Quote
>
> It's just a snippet..  It can't find ANYTHING.
>
> Other problems included the inability to even select the src-all/cvs or
> ports-all/cvs (trees? branches?) in the server, yet it has 1.5GB downloaded.
>
> What'd help me to learn what's wrong is the line in config.sh as below:
> distribs="distrib.self .. . FreeBSD.cvs /home/ncvs . FreeBSD-www.current
> SKIP . FreeBSD-gnats.current SKIP gnats FreeBSD-mail.current SKIP ."
>
> My guess is it names a distribution and puts a directory it stores the
> files into in the next argument, separated by space.  Next distribution is
> named and it's directory it stores the files into as the next one past that,
> with all distributions separated by a single period.
>
> Then the word 'gnats' throws me off because I .  don't know what the
> heck it's there for..  is the '.' an alias instead to the first item in the
> line, meaning it's a tuple?
> (distrib storedir alias)...
>
>
>
> What throws me off is that the /usr/local/etc/cvsup directory was tarred up
> from a working mirror and copied here and let the update.sh run for 5 hours,
> to come to the above quoted warnings (but I'm treating them as errors).  The
> working system has about 4GB in /home/ncvs that works for me, but this one
> can't get past 1.5GB.  Working system has been working beautifully for
> several months (6?)..  so maybe it's just collective.
>
>
> I really would like to get a bearing on cvsup-mirror, but have no clue what
> to google or read to find out some of the troubleshooting guides.
>
>
>
> --Tim
>


Bump

Any other mailing list I can send this question to?
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Re: Converting the partition type

[Christopher Chambers]

Oh well. Thanks guys. At least CD's are cheap!

-- 
Christopher Chambers 


On Sat, 2009-04-25 at 20:39 -0600, Modulok wrote:

> On 4/25/09, Christopher Chambers  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have an msdos partition with a large amount of data. Is there a way to
> > convert to a ufs partition without having to remove the data off the
> > partition first?
> >
> 
> >> IMHO there are no converters.
> 
> I second that. I know of no such utility either.
> -Modulok-
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Re: Long HTTP connection delays in LAN

[Matthew Seaman]

Reinis Ivanovs wrote:

Hello,

I have a strange HTTP connectivity problem in my LAN. There is a
FreeBSD 7.1 system that runs the httpd, a Vista system that I use to
connect to it, and a Tomato 1.23 WRT54GL router between them. It often
occurs that I can ping the FreeBSD system just fine, but HTTP
connections get "stuck" for minutes on end. After they become
"unstuck", everything works normally for a while, and then the problem
might come back. I know the httpd is running fine during those times
because there are no delays connecting locally or from outside the
LAN. It seems I also get similar delays when I try to connect to the
router's web administration panel. There are so many variables that
I'm not sure whether the problem lies with FreeBSD or something else.
I'm hoping somebody with more networking experience could give me some
hints about where to look, because I'm seriously stuck.


This sounds suspiciously like MTU problems.  ie. one of those machines
is occasionally sending packets too big for the other side to cope with
*and* PathMTU discovery is not working.

However, I can't see why that should be an issue with two machines and a
router all directly connected via ethernet: the standard MTU of 1500 bytes
is almost certainly correct in that case.

MTU problems usually occur when you tunnel one protocol through another
(which includes such things as IPSec) or when you convert from ethernet
to some other wire protocol, such as PPP.  In any case, there should be
an automatic mechanism to enable the MTU to be adjusted dynamically --
firewalling out all ICMP traffic (which is the not the latest bit of 
bogus security lore but merely the most intractable and stupid) will

lead to effects like that.

Cheers,

Matthew

--
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   7 Priory Courtyard
 Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
 Kent, CT11 9PW



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Re: Modern FreeBSD Installer?

[Polytropon]

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 17:45:49 -0600, Tim Judd  wrote:
> If it's
> a fast 686, default to a X environment.

I would always encourage using a text mode dialog FIRST. Such
as

Your system is able to run the graphical installer.
Do you want to launch it, or do you want to work with
the text mode installer indead?

[ text mode ]   [ graphical mode ]

Note that not everybody with sufficient hardware would also
want to use the GUI installer. Well... I won't... :-)

CPU power is not the only criteria for running a GUI installer.
But you already got into detail and took this into mind.



> Second (which ties into the first) is the hardware that was probed during
> boot-time.  If a /dev entry (or even some sysctl) exists for a pci/agp/pci-e
> device, it can run a graphical installer.  If it finds none of the graphical
> adapters, and sees serial ports, enable the dialog(3) as well. 

Then the problem of how to support these graphical adapters
could arise. You know that X has often problems autodetecting
stuff correct, even stuff that worked fine with XFree86 doesn't
always work with X.org. So problems are not only "too new"
things, but "too old" things, too.



> I seem to find this very logical and can't (yet) see any flaws with doing
> this.  sysinstall is built, we'd just need to maintain it and create the
> x-based installer.  Run it with a minimalist (twm?) startup so we don't
> waste time booting.

A window manager? Why use a window manager? It's possible to run X
without any window manager, and in this case, it makes sense, 
because there are no windows to be managed. It's only one program
running - the installer.

Of course, we're just talking about an installer, aren't we? It's
not about a full-featured live system where you can use Firefox
while doing the install. :-)



> I've also thought about the concept of a web-ui installer, even if it's run
> from the local machine.  The benefit of a webui installer is that you can
> give the disk to someone, tell them to put it up on a publically available
> IP address and just sit back and let it run.  but I ramble on

I'm not sure I understood this correctly... Do you suggest
something like running a (minimalistic) web server from the
machine where FreeBSD is about to be installed, and then
have either a HTTP connection from localhost or from a
distant machine (where someone else can do the install)?



> Again based on the hardware probed (this one being the amount of RAM in the
> box, in contrast to the amount of disk space needed to install on disk),
> create a in-ram disk as the staging area when you write to disk.  The other
> idea is to use dump/restore instead of tar files.

Well, dump & restore is my preferred method of "cloning" from
a "master workstation". But I'm not sure it can be used for
custom installation where the amount of what to install may
vary, and it is determined by the person who installs...



> Last idea is to do similar to what Ubuntu (used to) do.  Provide a X-based
> installer CD and a console-based installer CD.

I'd think that is too much. You'll always want the CD
you haven't got at hand at the moment. :-)



> I'd be happy to provide feedback; these were brainstorming ideas and would
> really like to see progress move toward a more eye-candy installer.

Well, then I'd suggest you prove why eye-candy is needed
at all in the first place. :-)

As Wojciech mentioned in one of his replies, I'd welcome
new functionalities - instead of the same functionalities
in an "X enclosure" that makes everything slower. :-)

For example, if you get the sources from the install disc,
sysinstall could provide a step to update them right away,
letting you select the update server and then run csup to
bring them up to date.

Just an idea.

One of many possible ideas. :-)


-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Modern FreeBSD Installer?

[Polytropon]

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 02:18:55 +0200, Erik Trulsson  
wrote:
> As long as you have sufficient RAM (and you don't actually need all that
> much of it) running X on an older CPU should not be much of a problem.
> (Unless X.org has bloated really badly over the last couple of years.)

It has. It makes my P4 2GHz 768MB RAM with ATI 9200 RV250
run slower than my 300MHz P2 256MB RAM, while not being able
to init the screen at 1400x1050... :-(



> That logic will often do the wrong thing for servers.  They are the most
> common case where people want to install using a serial console, but
> typically do have a (fairly simple) graphical adapter and could run a
> graphical installer perfectly well.  That does not necessarily mean
> that the person doing the install wants to do it. 

Exactly. The hardware configuration does not neccessarily
imply the intentions of the user.



> Better would be to check (somehow) for the presence of a keyboard and a
> screen.  If those are not present forget about X.  If they are present
> then the user at least has a possibility of using X.

That would be a good approach. AT and USB keyboards need to be
taken into mind.

Another thing is the mouse. It *may* not be present, but the
user may want to use the GUI installer. Then the GUI installer
would need to have full keyboard support - a thing that you
can rarely see today...



> Also keep in mind that there are graphical adapters/screen combinations
> where X will not work correctly without first tweaking configuration files.

That's the problem of running X in this very limited stage of
operations. It cannot do that much as if it was installed and
had custom-tweaked config files.



> Things have improved greatly here in recent years, but it is still
> not perfect.

And disimproved, too. :-)



> I fail to see what the point of an X-based install would be - other than
> pure eye-candy, which does not seem very important for something like an
> installer which is used so rarely.

A benefit that people often imply is that it attracts more
users, because they get scared by the 80x25.

Another point would be to select the LANGUAGE of the installer
in the first place. Germans get scared by english words! :-)



-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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