Re: [fpc-pascal] The new Delphi 2010 RTTI
22.12.2010 21:52, Michael Van Canneyt пишет: Therefore, until the time someone finds a cross-platform way to implement packages, I see no reason not to start on RTTI. They can perfectly be implented independently or even in parallel. Wine has ability to load windows libraries on linux. This technology could be used to implement cross-platform packages. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] The new Delphi 2010 RTTI
23.12.2010 17:52, Marco van de Voort пишет: In our previous episode, alexv...@mail.ru said: Therefore, until the time someone finds a cross-platform way to implement packages, I see no reason not to start on RTTI. They can perfectly be implented independently or even in parallel. Wine has ability to load windows libraries on linux. .. into windows programs. This technology could be used to implement cross-platform packages. Yes, run the FPC/win32 binary in Wine :-) ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal I`ve heard that some cross-platform projects use this to build cross-platform plug-ins. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] The new Delphi 2010 RTTI
24.12.2010 17:31, Sven Barth пишет: Yeah... and only works on i386- and x86_64-linux. Runtime packages will come sooner or later, maybe not this year (ok... that's hard to beat ^^) and maybe not next year. But when they come they'll be implemented in a good cross platform way without such hackish approaches like requiring Wine or some other big dependencies. I mentioned WINE only as as example of possibility to use native binaries from one platform in another. FPC should use own format of dynamic library and own dynamic linker code embedded into executable. This solution could be crossplaform. Regards, Alexander ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] The new Delphi 2010 RTTI
10.01.2011 12:05, Sven Barth пишет: No, FPC should rely on the operating system for dynamic linking. There is no use in duplicating a functionality that is already there. One "just" needs to spot all problems that might arise on different platforms when using dynamic libraries (e.g. symbol resolution on Windows vs. ELF based systems). Regards, Sven If so, there must be an executable format supported by all FPC target platforms natively. I don't know any such format. We have to duplicate some OS functions to make things crossplatform. Alex. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] The new Delphi 2010 RTTI
10.01.2011 12:50, michael.vancann...@wisa.be пишет: Why ? There is no need for that; You can perfectly use the OS functionality. All you need to do is add a layer on top which hides the OS specifics. Borland could do it, so we can do it too. The main problem is the Windows target where a library is more like a self-contained exe. On Linux (and probably Mac OS), libraries already work as packages are intended to work. Michael. Delphi package is standart DLL with PE file format - it is not portable without things like Wine for example. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] The new Delphi 2010 RTTI
10.01.2011 12:58, Matt Emson пишет: On 10/01/2011 09:26, alexv...@mail.ru wrote: If so, there must be an executable format supported by all FPC target platforms natively. I don't know any such format. We have to duplicate some OS functions to make things crossplatform. I don't think that is what Sven meant. I think the executable format would be that of the native platform. However, the interface to the library (the exported symbols and such) would be a common interface that abstracts away the specifics of the underlying OS Library loading routines. M But I want packages to be binary portable between OS (on target processor architecture) Alex ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] The new Delphi 2010 RTTI
10.01.2011 13:05, michael.vancann...@wisa.be пишет: On Mon, 10 Jan 2011, Vincent Snijders wrote: 2011/1/10 alexv...@mail.ru : But I want packages to be binary portable between OS (on target processor architecture) I don't think that is feasible, unless you don't use any OS features. Exactly. Even just because FPC supports multiple CPUs; You can't use an i386 package on SPARC or ARM. So you'll always have to recompile your package for all platforms that you want to support. But only for all processors, not for all existing combinations of processor and OS. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: OS independent packages was Re: [fpc-pascal] The new Delphi 2010 RTTI
10.01.2011 13:19, Florian Klaempfl пишет: Am 10.01.2011 11:16, schrieb alexv...@mail.ru: 10.01.2011 13:05, michael.vancann...@wisa.be пишет: On Mon, 10 Jan 2011, Vincent Snijders wrote: 2011/1/10 alexv...@mail.ru: But I want packages to be binary portable between OS (on target processor architecture) I don't think that is feasible, unless you don't use any OS features. Exactly. Even just because FPC supports multiple CPUs; You can't use an i386 package on SPARC or ARM. So you'll always have to recompile your package for all platforms that you want to support. But only for all processors, not for all existing combinations of processor and OS. The rtl package is OS specific anyways and as soon as you depend on the rtl package (an fpc package will always depend on it), you need to build your package for any FPC version, processor and OS combination. I have a few drafts of another design http://wiki.freepascal.org/User:AlexVinS/Packages ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] The new Delphi 2010 RTTI
10.01.2011 13:50, michael.vancann...@wisa.be пишет: On Mon, 10 Jan 2011, alexv...@mail.ru wrote: 10.01.2011 13:05, michael.vancann...@wisa.be пишет: On Mon, 10 Jan 2011, Vincent Snijders wrote: 2011/1/10 alexv...@mail.ru : But I want packages to be binary portable between OS (on target processor architecture) I don't think that is feasible, unless you don't use any OS features. Exactly. Even just because FPC supports multiple CPUs; You can't use an i386 package on SPARC or ARM. So you'll always have to recompile your package for all platforms that you want to support. But only for all processors, not for all existing combinations of processor and OS. You should re-read Florian's email, and *fully* understand the consequences. Your proposal requires that we emulate all OSes on all other OSes, because the basic package (rtl or whatever it will be called) always depends on the OS. There is no way around this. My solution, in short, is that packages should have OS independent interface to RTL built into executable visible to packages as RTL built as c package (with is a bridge to real RTL). ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] The new Delphi 2010 RTTI
10.01.2011 14:09, michael.vancann...@wisa.be пишет: I understood that. Assuming you can make this interface (which I don't believe), your solution is still not realistic: And how will you make a package that uses a os-specific function OS independent ? (for instance, a package with a control that uses a WinAPI call.) Of course nohow. But this package is not portable by desing and could be simply loaded, load needed OS libraries and execute. So a package with the LCL is by definition impossible. LCL itself is by design crossplatform. And if component developers don't use OS and widget set functions directly the are crossplatform to. Widget sets (and any platform dependend code) should be isolated in separate packages, LCL application load widget set package at startup and use it. It is only impossible to switch widget sets at runtime. So with packages Application can use ANY widget set. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] The new Delphi 2010 RTTI
10.01.2011 15:31, Marco van de Voort пишет: In our previous episode, alexv...@mail.ru said: But I want packages to be binary portable between OS (on target processor architecture) That's effectively not possible with all OSes providing such emulation ABI. Esperanto for OSes so to speak. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal Does "inefficiently" meansperformance decreaseis this case? Is it significant? ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
