Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Hi, I think that the init system is not the whole point, maybe that is what triggered the fork, but I don't find a distro attractive just because didn't want to switch to systemd. I think that the point is the homogenization of Linux distros and the freedom to have hands-on on a system. As stated in the fork document: "We believe this situation is also the result of a longer process leading to the take-over of Debian by the GNOME project agenda. Considering how far this has propagated today and the importance of Debian as a universal OS and base system in the distribution panorama, what is at stake is the future of GNU/Linux in a scenario of complete homogeneization and lock-in of all base distributions." And I actually think that they succeeded, all the major distribution today are using systemd. But returning to the point, I would not reduce a distribution project to its init. I think that a motto should focus on the consequences: * more customizable * more universal * you can change every part without impacting the others Il 18/01/22 20:05, goli...@devuan.org ha scritto: On 2022-01-18 10:59, Antony Stone wrote: Hi. I wanted to check the current list of init systems supported by Devuan, so I went to the website to find out. I noticed the prominent motto "init freedom - watch your first step!" there, and wonder whether this is an entirely positive thing for new visitors to the Devuan world to see? It could easily, I think, be taken to mean "be careful about taking a first step in an unknown direction" (which is what Devuan is for a newcomer), and could possibly make some people decide "oh, I'm not so sure about this; maybe not, after all". I'm sure there can be some more positive phrase we can use about init freedom, to emphasise what it _gives_ people, not to emphasise being cautious about the unknown. Thoughts / opinions? Antony. Here is a history lesson that should not be forgotten: https://www.devuan.org/os/announce/ Eroding history is the first step down a slippery slope to the end of freedom. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
En 20 de enero de 2022 7:41:23 Andrew McGlashan via Dng escribió: On 20/1/22 5:07 pm, goli...@devuan.org wrote: On 2022-01-19 23:08, Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: About the logo, /if/ Okay, then about the IMAGE ... /if/ Yes, more like a slogan :) Aitor Enviado con Aqua Mail para Android https://www.mobisystems.com/aqua-mail ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
goli...@devuan.org said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 00:07:20 -0600 >THIS is the official Devuan logo: > >https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics/devuan-logo-1000x200.png Nice! SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Qt, KDE, unbelievable
Hi all, Read this: https://www.neowin.net/news/ads-may-be-coming-to-kde-the-popular-linux-desktop/ LOL, I removed every bit of KDE, its executables and libraries, in 2012. Mostly for the same reasons I refuse to host systemd. Now comes the possibility of ads on KDE applications. But it's even worse, because Qt is doing it, so non-KDE apps might be involved, including the LXQt I've recommended as an alternative to the deprecated LXDE. SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 11:39:25, Steve Litt wrote: > goli...@devuan.org said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 00:07:20 -0600 > > >THIS is the official Devuan logo: > > > >https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics > >/devuan-logo-1000x200.png > > Nice! > > SteveT You make it sound as though you have never installed Devuan... That logo appears on the installer screen every time you create a machine. Antony. -- One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ntp setup
Rick Moen said on Tue, 22 Jun 2021 01:51:35 -0700 >Quoting Olaf Meeuwissen (paddy-h...@member.fsf.org): > >> I think it's fair to point out that systemd-timesyncd only promises >> Simple NTP (SNTP). How good a job it does of that is another matter >> but at least it explains some of the "quirks" you mention below. [snip] >Or, to put it a different way, with several excellent genuine NTP >clients to choose among, I deny the existence of a compelling use-case >for any SNTP client, I use openntpd. Is that NTP, or only SNTP? What are some full NTP time systems for Linux? Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Antony Stone said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 11:53:07 +0100 >On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 11:39:25, Steve Litt wrote: > >> goli...@devuan.org said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 00:07:20 -0600 >> >> >THIS is the official Devuan logo: >> > >> >https://git.devuan.org/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/art/graphics >> >/devuan-logo-1000x200.png >> >> Nice! >> >> SteveT > >You make it sound as though you have never installed Devuan... > >That logo appears on the installer screen every time you create a >machine. I don't pay a lot of attention to aesthetic components unless they're pointed out to me. I've probably installed Devuan about 8 times, all on qemu VMs. SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ntp setup
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 11:58:32, Steve Litt wrote: > I use openntpd. Is that NTP, or only SNTP? It's both: https://man.openbsd.org/ntpd Antony. -- Most people would be a lot less bothered about what other people think of them if they only realised how seldom they do. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 12:00:55, Steve Litt wrote: > Antony Stone said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 11:53:07 +0100 > > >That logo appears on the installer screen every time you create a > >machine. > > I don't pay a lot of attention to aesthetic components unless they're > pointed out to me. I've probably installed Devuan about 8 times, all on > qemu VMs. My screenshot was from precisely that. Antony. -- You can tell that the day just isn't going right when you find yourself using the telephone before the toilet. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ntp setup
Antony Stone said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:02:08 +0100 >On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 11:58:32, Steve Litt wrote: > >> I use openntpd. Is that NTP, or only SNTP? > >It's both: https://man.openbsd.org/ntpd > > >Antony. Thanks Antony, After reading that page and man 5 ntpd.conf, I couldn't find out how to make sure it does NTP. Is it safe to assume that it does both SNTP and NTP out of the box, and the user of SNTP in no way compromises its use of NTP? Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
Karl Hammar [19/01/2022 18.19]: What is that "if" about, ohh, it is an acronym... Unfortunately it looks like this insurance company's logotype: https://www.if.se/ so, I'd say we cannot use it (it really make me wounder why the authorities allows thoose names). If is owned by the Finnish company Sampo, with branches in all Nordic countries. I think we should find a logo that stands out better. -- Hilsen Harald ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ntp setup
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 12:30:20, Steve Litt wrote:
> Antony Stone said on Thu, 20 Jan 2022 12:02:08 +0100
> >On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 11:58:32, Steve Litt wrote:
> >
> > > I use openntpd. Is that NTP, or only SNTP?
> >
> > It's both: https://man.openbsd.org/ntpd
>
> Thanks Antony,
>
> After reading that page and man 5 ntpd.conf, I couldn't find out how to
> make sure it does NTP. Is it safe to assume that it does both SNTP and
> NTP out of the box, and the user of SNTP in no way compromises its use
> of NTP?
I'm sorry; I have no idea - I don't use openntpd myself; I use De{bi,vu}an's
"ntp" package, whose man page refers me to http://support.ntp.org
Antony.
--
The truth is rarely pure, and never simple.
- Oscar Wilde
Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.
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Re: [DNG] Qt, KDE, unbelievable
On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 4:49 AM Steve Litt wrote: > > Hi all, > > Read this: > > https://www.neowin.net/news/ads-may-be-coming-to-kde-the-popular-linux-desktop/ > > LOL, I removed every bit of KDE, its executables and libraries, in > 2012. Mostly for the same reasons I refuse to host systemd. Now comes > the possibility of ads on KDE applications. > > But it's even worse, because Qt is doing it, so non-KDE apps might be > involved, including the LXQt I've recommended as an alternative to > the deprecated LXDE. > Now if all that advertising was actually good for something except making rich people richer - - - - Is it time for me to start begging the high quality programmer types for tools to block advertising - - - period? Just was reading today about some kind of graphics coding that when one opened an email that notice was sent back to somewhere with info regarding me and my system. Please - - - this is one time where I think I would even pay for quality stuff. The advertising behemoth is so pernicious that I really want 'Jack the Giant killer' level applications!!! Regards ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] The Daedalus desktop needs some love
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 02:08:12PM -0700, Bob Proulx via Dng wrote: > goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > Lars Noodén wrote: > > > What quality of display(s) and color calibration are required? > > > > In all the years I have been doing this, that question has never entered my > > mind and I have no idea how to even begin answering it. I do "eye" art not > > "machine" art. I can perceive even one increment change in a hex. > > > > Problem is . . . no one can know exactly what color another person is > > seeing. Add to that the vagaries of the monitor and . . . > > > > I don't know if a screenshot would capture the hex or what's showing on your > > monitor but maybe you could give it a try for the chimaera desktop and let > > us have a look. > > I just want to comment that I have two identical model displays side > by side in a dual monitor configuration on my desktop. Both are > identical as far as any model vendor and number are concerned. Yet > side by side it is pretty obvious to me that they have a difference in > color tone between them. They are definitely not the same even though > by specification they will be the same. > > The first order difference in my two monitors I think is that the > backlight is not identical between them. One shows a slightly warmer > color hue to the backlight from the other. I think that swamps other > effects causing differences in my "matched pair". > > None of this really has any effect on how nice a color theme looks on > the displays though. That's an art project more than a science project. > > Bob It's nice if the desktop colours look good on a perfectly calibrated monitor. But what's more important for it to look good on the variety of monitors regular users use. So we should test the imagery on the ordinary, everyday laptops and monitors we have at home and work. And it's important the the colours work even if one is colourblind. I'd suggest viewing it converted to greyscale as a first try at testing this, bt a friend of mine who is colourblind tells me it's far more complicated than this. -- hendrik > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Question re: security/info sent with emails and more
Greetings When I look at the headers from my emails and sometimes available in websites all this information about my system is included. Is there a way to block the sending of this particular information? Please?? TIA ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Qt, KDE, unbelievable
Hi Steve, Steve Litt wrote: > https://www.neowin.net/news/ads-may-be-coming-to-kde-the-popular-linux-desktop/ > > LOL, I removed every bit of KDE, its executables and libraries, in > 2012. Mostly for the same reasons I refuse to host systemd. Now comes > the possibility of ads on KDE applications. > > But it's even worse, because Qt is doing it, so non-KDE apps might be > involved, including the LXQt I've recommended as an alternative to > the deprecated LXDE. the news just says QT will support adds, which is "logical" in a modern world. Then any application developer may decide to use it or not, or to make a free ad version or not. Blame developers, more than QT! Personally, I hate ads on computers, Windows is hateful for that... these "news" and "ads" everywhere on phones. It is clearly blending the bad web experience with applications. However, many applications already had ads: they often do this by using an embeddable version of chrome. Quite hateful! Maybe this is a better compromise. I remember using a Softphone at a company, ad version. Just to display an add in a window, it first used flash, then an embedded browser, because adds are animated. Wonderful. 10MB app and then 100MB of "ad framework" to suck resources. Riccardo ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 11:10:36AM +1100, terryc wrote: > On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:19:38 +0100 (CET) > Karl Hammar wrote: > > > Hendrik: > > > On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 08:49:41PM -0600, goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > > > > > > On 2022-01-18 16:33, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Maybe something like "init freedom - - - your first step . . . > > > > > " > > > > Like this? https://transfer.sh/cTgmNi/if-rev2.png > > > > > > Interesting. The "if" in italics and off-centre makes the > > > image dynamic. At first I thought it a design error; then > > > I realised it works very well. > > > > What is that "if" about, ohh, it is an acronym... > > > > Unfortunately it looks like this insurance company's logotype: > > https://www.if.se/ > > so, I'd say we cannot use it (it really make me wounder why the > > authorities allows thoose names). > > That insurance company's logo is a serif font and the logo has other > elements so it wouldn't be confused. > > My 2c is they would only have any logo protection if it was a registered > trademark. but there is still the > point that 'if' is a common english expression. and the name of a science-fiction magazine (now defunct??) > > Also, DNS registration > in one domain does not preclude registration in any other domain, > unless whomever holds 'if.se' has already registered all the if.* > variations. > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Question re: security/info sent with emails and more
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 13:32:39, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > Greetings > > When I look at the headers from my emails and sometimes available > in websites all this information about my system is included. a) all what information? b) which email client are you using? > Is there a way to block the sending of this particular information? i suspect the answer to my question (b) above will inform the answer to that. Antony. -- "Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know." - Donald Rumsfeld, US Secretary of Defence Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 10:21:18AM +0100, Antonio Rendina via Dng wrote: > > But returning to the point, I would not reduce a distribution project to its > init. I think that a motto should focus on the consequences: > * more customizable > * more universal > * you can change every part without impacting the others The problem with systemd is not that it's an init system. The problem is that it's a replacement for everything else. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] The Daedalus desktop needs some love
On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 6:33 AM Hendrik Boom wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 02:08:12PM -0700, Bob Proulx via Dng wrote: > > goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > > Lars Noodén wrote: > > > > What quality of display(s) and color calibration are required? > > > > > > In all the years I have been doing this, that question has never entered > > > my > > > mind and I have no idea how to even begin answering it. I do "eye" art not > > > "machine" art. I can perceive even one increment change in a hex. > > > > > > Problem is . . . no one can know exactly what color another person is > > > seeing. Add to that the vagaries of the monitor and . . . > > > > > > I don't know if a screenshot would capture the hex or what's showing on > > > your > > > monitor but maybe you could give it a try for the chimaera desktop and let > > > us have a look. > > > > I just want to comment that I have two identical model displays side > > by side in a dual monitor configuration on my desktop. Both are > > identical as far as any model vendor and number are concerned. Yet > > side by side it is pretty obvious to me that they have a difference in > > color tone between them. They are definitely not the same even though > > by specification they will be the same. > > > > The first order difference in my two monitors I think is that the > > backlight is not identical between them. One shows a slightly warmer > > color hue to the backlight from the other. I think that swamps other > > effects causing differences in my "matched pair". > > > > None of this really has any effect on how nice a color theme looks on > > the displays though. That's an art project more than a science project. > > > > Bob > > It's nice if the desktop colours look good on a perfectly calibrated monitor. > But what's more important for it to look good on the variety of monitors > regular users use. > So we should test the imagery on the ordinary, everyday laptops and > monitors we have at home and work. > And it's important the the colours work even if one is colourblind. > I'd suggest viewing it converted to greyscale as a first try at testing > this, bt a friend of mine who is colourblind tells me it's far more > complicated than this. > AIUI there are not only different forms of color blindedness but also different levels. Putting that all together means a very large amount of complexity. Likely an easy path to avoid most difficulties - - - use only strong primary colors - - - does that solve the possible issues - - - nope but those that are color blind have learned to cope with those specific issues (I'm thinking of red like in stop lights). HTH ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Qt, KDE, unbelievable
On Donnerstag, 20. Januar 2022 09:30:28 -03 o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 4:49 AM Steve Litt wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Read this: > > > > https://www.neowin.net/news/ads-may-be-coming-to-kde-the-popular-lin > > ux-desktop/ > > > > LOL, I removed every bit of KDE, its executables and libraries, in > > 2012. Mostly for the same reasons I refuse to host systemd. Now > > comes > > the possibility of ads on KDE applications. > > > > But it's even worse, because Qt is doing it, so non-KDE apps might > > be > > involved, including the LXQt I've recommended as an alternative to > > the deprecated LXDE. > > Now if all that advertising was actually good for something except > making rich people richer - - - - That, although some truth in it, I think is an oversimplification. In the case of my bank and my phone provider I think the statement is true however. > > Is it time for me to start begging the high quality programmer types > for tools to block advertising - - - period? > > Just was reading today about some kind of graphics coding that when > one opened an email that notice was sent back to somewhere with info > regarding me and my system. > > Please - - - this is one time where I think I would even pay for > quality stuff. Unfortunately I get also ads from services I pay for. My bank, gmx, the guardian, ARRL in books, almost all magazines, and so on and so on. They say (and they might be right) that they cannot survive without ads even if their customers pay for subscriptions or for membership. And in magazines I actualy get some valuable information out of ads because they relate to my field of interest. My bank and my phone provider is another story - they want to sell me overpriced stuff that I definitely do not need nor want. There is an upside in getting ads that do not relate whatsoever to my person: it shows that the sender has not the slightest idea about my person. Every day my phone provider sends me SMS about "the INFLUENCERS" and "the best games for your kids". My 'kids' are 50-somethings and the 'INFLUENCERS' spend a lot of time every day to put on heavy makeup - I guess - didn't look, of course. I know there are males who put on make- up -- I: not commenting on this ... Some remarkable exceptions: mega.nz and lo-and-behold google-drive. > The advertising behemoth is so pernicious that I > really want 'Jack the Giant killer' level applications!!! > > Regards I am looking for a way to fake that I'm opening/reading the ads so the magazine et all get paid but without having my screen actually littered with ads and especially my ears not molested. That would be nifty. Have a nice day Eike ZP6CGE ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] The Daedalus desktop needs some love
On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 07:03:27AM -0600, o1bigtenor wrote: > On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 6:33 AM Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 02:08:12PM -0700, Bob Proulx via Dng wrote: > > > goli...@devuan.org wrote: > > > > Lars Noodén wrote: > > > > > What quality of display(s) and color calibration are required? > > > > > > > > In all the years I have been doing this, that question has never > > > > entered my > > > > mind and I have no idea how to even begin answering it. I do "eye" art > > > > not > > > > "machine" art. I can perceive even one increment change in a hex. > > > > > > > > Problem is . . . no one can know exactly what color another person is > > > > seeing. Add to that the vagaries of the monitor and . . . > > > > > > > > I don't know if a screenshot would capture the hex or what's showing on > > > > your > > > > monitor but maybe you could give it a try for the chimaera desktop and > > > > let > > > > us have a look. > > > > > > I just want to comment that I have two identical model displays side > > > by side in a dual monitor configuration on my desktop. Both are > > > identical as far as any model vendor and number are concerned. Yet > > > side by side it is pretty obvious to me that they have a difference in > > > color tone between them. They are definitely not the same even though > > > by specification they will be the same. > > > > > > The first order difference in my two monitors I think is that the > > > backlight is not identical between them. One shows a slightly warmer > > > color hue to the backlight from the other. I think that swamps other > > > effects causing differences in my "matched pair". > > > > > > None of this really has any effect on how nice a color theme looks on > > > the displays though. That's an art project more than a science project. > > > > > > Bob > > > > It's nice if the desktop colours look good on a perfectly calibrated > > monitor. > > But what's more important for it to look good on the variety of monitors > > regular users use. > > So we should test the imagery on the ordinary, everyday laptops and > > monitors we have at home and work. > > And it's important the the colours work even if one is colourblind. > > I'd suggest viewing it converted to greyscale as a first try at testing > > this, bt a friend of mine who is colourblind tells me it's far more > > complicated than this. > > > AIUI there are not only different forms of color blindedness but also > different levels. Putting that all together means a very large amount > of complexity. > > Likely an easy path to avoid most difficulties - - - use only strong > primary colors - - - does that solve the possible issues - - - nope > but those that are color blind have learned to cope with those specific > issues (I'm thinking of red like in stop lights). I'm not colourblind, but I have noticed there's a standard arrangement of colours on a set of traffic lights, with the red on the bottom. Also (this is a little harder to see) the different lights have different shapes. Around here, for example, the red light is octagonal, like a stop sign. The best I know is to use a grey scale. But we'd want a grey scale to be what appears on the screen, not a colour gamut that might not match what some colour-blind person sees. My friend's colour blindness is not just that some primaries don't work; it seems to be a complicated interaction between primaries. I don't understand it either. -- hendrik > > HTH ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Question re: security/info sent with emails and more
On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 06:32:39 -0600 o1bigtenor via Dng wrote: > Greetings > > When I look at the headers from my emails and sometimes available > in websites all this information about my system is included. > > Is there a way to block the sending of this particular information? > > Please?? > > TIA My 2c is to look at your email client configuration and the smtp(?)/mail receival process. You only need to send enough information for the receiving end to accept your message process. Sorry, but late at night here and too many decades so I do not remember the process clearly, but I think it is just a)_sender identification b) message recipient c) message body In Unix and early linux the commanmd was 'mail' but it seems to have grown a bit since them. "man mail" if you want to go down the rabbit hole. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Question re: security/info sent with emails and more
Le 20/01/2022 à 13:32, o1bigtenor via Dng a écrit : Greetings When I look at the headers from my emails and sometimes available in websites all this information about my system is included. Is there a way to block the sending of this particular information? First thing: don't use gmail. gmail == google = aspiration of all data about you. Google knows everything about you even better than your mother. Plus all the network of your relations. Not only Google, also the 3-letter agencies. -- Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Qt, KDE, unbelievable
That's a neat idea. Good luck with developing it - keep us posted on how it goes. Reminds me a bit of something that occurred to me a long time ago, when I was having to attend an endless stream of pointless, irrelevant, boring meetings. I wondered about virtual meetings: I'd program a "virtual meeting agent" to say what I had to say (if anything), and record what I needed to hear (if anything); at the set date/time, the agent then would "attend" the meeting with all the other agents (whilst I got on with something useful), and then come back and tell me about it. On Thu, 2022-01-20 at 10:36 -0300, Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE via Dng wrote: > I am looking for a way to fake that I'm opening/reading the ads so the > magazine et all get paid but without having my screen actually littered > with ads and especially my ears not molested. That would be nifty. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Qt, KDE, unbelievable
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 14:36:56, Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE via Dng wrote: > I am looking for a way to fake that I'm opening/reading the ads so the > magazine et all get paid but without having my screen actually littered > with ads and especially my ears not molested. That would be nifty. Sounds like a job for a proxy server. Get it to follow all links and download everything available; do not pass ads on to the client (perhaps substitute them for innocuous content, such as a 1x1 pixel instead of a full-size ad). https://www.privoxy.org/ perhaps. Antony. -- Archaeologists have found a previously-unknown dinosaur which seems to have had a very large vocabulary. They've named it The Saurus. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] The Daedalus desktop needs some love
> On 20 Jan 2022, at 23:33, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 02:08:12PM -0700, Bob Proulx via Dng wrote: >> goli...@devuan.org wrote: >>> Lars Noodén wrote: What quality of display(s) and color calibration are required? >>> >>> In all the years I have been doing this, that question has never entered my >>> mind and I have no idea how to even begin answering it. I do "eye" art not >>> "machine" art. I can perceive even one increment change in a hex. >>> >>> Problem is . . . no one can know exactly what color another person is >>> seeing. Add to that the vagaries of the monitor and . . . >>> >>> I don't know if a screenshot would capture the hex or what's showing on your >>> monitor but maybe you could give it a try for the chimaera desktop and let >>> us have a look. >> >> I just want to comment that I have two identical model displays side >> by side in a dual monitor configuration on my desktop. Both are >> identical as far as any model vendor and number are concerned. Yet >> side by side it is pretty obvious to me that they have a difference in >> color tone between them. They are definitely not the same even though >> by specification they will be the same. >> >> The first order difference in my two monitors I think is that the >> backlight is not identical between them. One shows a slightly warmer >> color hue to the backlight from the other. I think that swamps other >> effects causing differences in my "matched pair". >> >> None of this really has any effect on how nice a color theme looks on >> the displays though. That's an art project more than a science project. >> >> Bob > > It's nice if the desktop colours look good on a perfectly calibrated monitor. > But what's more important for it to look good on the variety of monitors > regular users use. > So we should test the imagery on the ordinary, everyday laptops and > monitors we have at home and work. > And it's important the the colours work even if one is colourblind. > I'd suggest viewing it converted to greyscale as a first try at testing > this, bt a friend of mine who is colourblind tells me it's far more > complicated than this. > > -- hendrik Can I suggest Color Oracle or similar as a tool to use here? https://colororacle.org/ It allows you to apply a full screen filter to simulate what a colour blind person would be seeing if they were viewing your monitor. It is a Java app and I’ve only tested it on Windows some years ago but it does say Linux compatible, with a link to source code on GitHub. -- Tom___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ntp setup
> On 20 Jan 2022, at 21:58, Steve Litt wrote: > > Rick Moen said on Tue, 22 Jun 2021 01:51:35 -0700 > >> Quoting Olaf Meeuwissen (paddy-h...@member.fsf.org): >> >>> I think it's fair to point out that systemd-timesyncd only promises >>> Simple NTP (SNTP). How good a job it does of that is another matter >>> but at least it explains some of the "quirks" you mention below. > > [snip] > >> Or, to put it a different way, with several excellent genuine NTP >> clients to choose among, I deny the existence of a compelling use-case >> for any SNTP client, > > I use openntpd. Is that NTP, or only SNTP? What are some full NTP time > systems for Linux? > > Thanks, > > SteveT I’ve used chrony as a NTP client and server on Devuan for many years. https://chrony.tuxfamily.org/ There is a comparison to ntpd and openntpd but I’m not sure how up to date it is. https://chrony.tuxfamily.org/comparison.html -- Tom___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ntp setup
On 1/20/22 12:30 PM, Steve Litt wrote: After reading that page and man 5 ntpd.conf, I couldn't find out how to make sure it does NTP. Is it safe to assume that it does both SNTP and NTP out of the box, and the user of SNTP in no way compromises its use of NTP? As far as my knowledge goes: if you install ntpd and use it it uses ntp to talk to the configured servers (or pool-addresses). sntp is a "smaller" subset of the protocol, normaly used by tools that only once query the time and are done with it (like ntpdate). The ntpd can serve sntp-requests, and that changes nothing about how he himself queries for time... ntpsec may be worth a look too. Daniel ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Early Days at Bell Labs
Thanks for the link to that - brilliant talk. I've always thought that Brian Kernighan himself was the great communicator in the UNIX group - I wonder whether "The C Programming Language" and "The Unix Programming Environment" would have happened without his obvious ability to take abstruse and difficult material and make it accessible. If I had one incredibly tiny nit to pick, it would be that he didn't mention GNU (it appeared once in the slide showing Linus' original email). Without GNU, it's reasonable to suppose that linux wouldn't have happened. On Sun, 2022-01-16 at 04:12 -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > Hi all, > > This was discussed on the devuan-offtopic IRC channel, so I watched the > video: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECCr_KFl41E > > It's Brian Kernighan discussing the formation of Unix, starting from > the back story of the creation of Bell Labs, including predecessors > CTSS and Multics, and C predecessors BCPL which was modified to become > B, and why Dennis Richie added types to B to make C. > > This video really hits its stride when Kernighan discusses piping and > redirection, and the ease of creating wonderful things out of small > parts that, and Kernighan used these words, "do one thing and do it > well." > > I felt like I was watching a fellow traveller who respected simplicity, > and creating powerful systems from simple tools. It was a much needed > reaffirmation for a guy who, when he's not with his Devuan buddies, > endures countless taunts for not using the pulseaudio-mandated Zoom, or > a Mac, or even Windows. They call me a tinkerer, even though my user > interface has changed not one bit in seven years (Openbox with dmenu > and UMENU2). Kind of ironic considering the changes their beloved Gnome > and KDE have put them through during that time. > > This video is such a breath of fresh air in a world worshipping Gates, > Jobs and Poettering. I suggest you watch it. I think it will bring a > smile to your face. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful > Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Early Days at Bell Labs
On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 17:24:46, Peter Duffy wrote: > On Sun, 2022-01-16 at 04:12 -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECCr_KFl41E > > Thanks for the link to that - brilliant talk. I've always thought that > Brian Kernighan himself was the great communicator in the UNIX group - I > wonder whether "The C Programming Language" and "The Unix Programming > Environment" would have happened without his obvious ability to take > abstruse and difficult material and make it accessible. > > If I had one incredibly tiny nit to pick, it would be that he didn't > mention GNU (it appeared once in the slide showing Linus' original > email). Without GNU, it's reasonable to suppose that linux wouldn't have > happened. I disagree with "it's reasonable to suppose that". Linus Torvalds was building a system for himself, partly (I believe) because he liked Unix but couldn't afford a Unix system of his own, and therefore he was of course going to build it using as much free (of charge) software as he could. That meant GNU. I think the Unix philosophy and design principles are beautiful, and formed the basis of an amazingly efficient system, but some of those principles are embodied in Linux and some are embodied in GNU (for example, devices as files, and pipes, in the first; and tools such as tr, cut, grep in the second), so these days we can't really separate the two - Linux is nothing without GNU (although the reverse is not true). Antony. -- Douglas was one of those writers who honourably failed to get anywhere with 'weekending'. It put a premium on people who could write things that lasted thirty seconds, and Douglas was incapable of writing a single sentence that lasted less than thirty seconds. - Geoffrey Perkins, about Douglas Adams Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Early Days at Bell Labs
On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 06:40:13PM +0100, Antony Stone wrote: > On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 17:24:46, Peter Duffy wrote: > > > On Sun, 2022-01-16 at 04:12 -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECCr_KFl41E > > > > Thanks for the link to that - brilliant talk. I've always thought that > > Brian Kernighan himself was the great communicator in the UNIX group - I > > wonder whether "The C Programming Language" and "The Unix Programming > > Environment" would have happened without his obvious ability to take > > abstruse and difficult material and make it accessible. > > > > If I had one incredibly tiny nit to pick, it would be that he didn't > > mention GNU (it appeared once in the slide showing Linus' original > > email). Without GNU, it's reasonable to suppose that linux wouldn't have > > happened. > > I disagree with "it's reasonable to suppose that". > > Linus Torvalds was building a system for himself, partly (I believe) because > he liked Unix but couldn't afford a Unix system of his own, and therefore he > was of course going to build it using as much free (of charge) software as he > could. > > That meant GNU. > > I think the Unix philosophy and design principles are beautiful, and formed > the basis of an amazingly efficient system, but some of those principles are > embodied in Linux and some are embodied in GNU (for example, devices as > files, > and pipes, in the first; and tools such as tr, cut, grep in the second), so > these days we can't really separate the two - Linux is nothing without GNU > (although the reverse is not true). And don't forget Minix, the system he used while developing his kernel. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Problems with SPF of dyne.org for this mailing list
On 2022-01-19 18:32, Bob Proulx via Dng wrote: Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: Not fixed? Did anybody look at this. Did you send a problem report to the mailing list owner? Thanks for the reports . . . I got bit by this yesterday too. I think (hope) Dyne has gotten it fixed once and for all. Keep your fingers crossed. :) golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Early Days at Bell Labs
On 2022-01-20 18:40:13, Antony Stone wrote: > On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 17:24:46, Peter Duffy wrote: > > > On Sun, 2022-01-16 at 04:12 -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECCr_KFl41E > > > > Thanks for the link to that - brilliant talk. I've always thought that > > Brian Kernighan himself was the great communicator in the UNIX group - I > > wonder whether "The C Programming Language" and "The Unix Programming > > Environment" would have happened without his obvious ability to take > > abstruse and difficult material and make it accessible. > > > > If I had one incredibly tiny nit to pick, it would be that he didn't > > mention GNU (it appeared once in the slide showing Linus' original > > email). Without GNU, it's reasonable to suppose that linux wouldn't have > > happened. > > I disagree with "it's reasonable to suppose that". > > Linus Torvalds was building a system for himself, partly (I believe) because > he liked Unix but couldn't afford a Unix system of his own, and therefore he > was of course going to build it using as much free (of charge) software as he > could. > > That meant GNU. > > I think the Unix philosophy and design principles are beautiful, and formed > the basis of an amazingly efficient system, but some of those principles are > embodied in Linux and some are embodied in GNU (for example, devices as > files, > and pipes, in the first; and tools such as tr, cut, grep in the second), so > these days we can't really separate the two - Linux is nothing without GNU > (although the reverse is not true). It's entirely possible to have a Linux OS without any GNU software. Using such things as busybox and toybox for example. -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:08:08 +1100 Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > Sure others could come up with better symbols / logos and words than > me. Freedom as an idea is a contrast between non-free and free. A symbol if it is therefore shown in those three parts: 1. Non-free (limitation, imprisonment, etc) 2. Freeing (getting away from #1) 3. Free (moving away to the contrast) A bird/branch is a frequent one: 1. The branch (sitting) 2. Flight (mobility, choice) 3. The sky A particular bird has many meanings for various reasons though. This idea could be shown just as easily with a creature waddling out from the waters onto the land. I can't think of anything else at the moment, but I think the deep meaning is in that three-part idea. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Website "motto"?
On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 15:38:43 -0600 goli...@devuan.org wrote: > The bike-shedding is quite useless and frankly getting annoying > without an accompanying tangible option for us to look at and > evaluate. > > Is everyone really that bored and clueless? I think more like curious and listless. I like these occasional diversions as long as participants to the project itself remain only amused and not too distracted. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Qt, KDE, unbelievable
On Thu, 20 Jan 2022, Steve Litt wrote: > Hi all, > > Read this: > > https://www.neowin.net/news/ads-may-be-coming-to-kde-the-popular-linux-desktop/ > Yes read it. Qt adding support for ADS. Any Open Source KDE/Qt program that did that would have the code that did it removed by debian straight away - I'm pretty sure. So will devuan see any crud? If you use closed source software you are on you own - caveat emptor etc. So why the fuss? > LOL, I removed every bit of KDE, its executables and libraries, in > 2012. Mostly for the same reasons I refuse to host systemd. Now comes > the possibility of ads on KDE applications. > > But it's even worse, because Qt is doing it, so non-KDE apps might be > involved, including the LXQt I've recommended as an alternative to > the deprecated LXDE. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful > Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ntp setup
On Thu, 20 Jan 2022, Steve Litt wrote: > Rick Moen said on Tue, 22 Jun 2021 01:51:35 -0700 > > >Quoting Olaf Meeuwissen (paddy-h...@member.fsf.org): > > > >> I think it's fair to point out that systemd-timesyncd only promises > >> Simple NTP (SNTP). How good a job it does of that is another matter > >> but at least it explains some of the "quirks" you mention below. > > [snip] > > >Or, to put it a different way, with several excellent genuine NTP > >clients to choose among, I deny the existence of a compelling use-case > >for any SNTP client, > > I use openntpd. Is that NTP, or only SNTP? What are some full NTP time > systems for Linux? See https://www.pool.ntp.org/en/ > > Thanks, > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful > Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Early Days at Bell Labs
On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 13:25:50 -0500 Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 06:40:13PM +0100, Antony Stone wrote: > > On Thursday 20 January 2022 at 17:24:46, Peter Duffy wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 2022-01-16 at 04:12 -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECCr_KFl41E > > > > > > Thanks for the link to that - brilliant talk. I've always thought > > > that Brian Kernighan himself was the great communicator in the > > > UNIX group - I wonder whether "The C Programming Language" and > > > "The Unix Programming Environment" would have happened without > > > his obvious ability to take abstruse and difficult material and > > > make it accessible. > > > > > > If I had one incredibly tiny nit to pick, it would be that he > > > didn't mention GNU (it appeared once in the slide showing Linus' > > > original email). Without GNU, it's reasonable to suppose that > > > linux wouldn't have happened. > > > > I disagree with "it's reasonable to suppose that". > > > > Linus Torvalds was building a system for himself, partly (I > > believe) because he liked Unix but couldn't afford a Unix system of > > his own, and therefore he was of course going to build it using as > > much free (of charge) software as he could. > > > > That meant GNU. > > > > I think the Unix philosophy and design principles are beautiful, > > and formed the basis of an amazingly efficient system, but some of > > those principles are embodied in Linux and some are embodied in GNU > > (for example, devices as files, and pipes, in the first; and tools > > such as tr, cut, grep in the second), so these days we can't really > > separate the two - Linux is nothing without GNU (although the > > reverse is not true). > > And don't forget Minix, the system he used while developing his > kernel. Didn't Linus start what became Linux because Minix was only 286 capable and was not going to be upgraded and Linux wanted something that would run on 386 cpus. I think there was also a licensing issue involved in modifying Minix. > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
