Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Keep in mind that there are other interests at play, the "leadership" has to content with your requests and other's. The one thing that annoys me is the handling of OpenPGP and keys. I cannot update my keys nor sync them with the ones present on my system. Which is highly annoying since I sign my git commits using the same identity. However the way it is implemented in TB seems to makes sense when in an enterprise environment and dealing with only emails. Thus my understanding is that Thunderbird cannot content with everybody, as you point out, due to a lack of means. My personal issue with Thunderbird is solely the OpenPGP situation, and I wonder what issues you yourself have. Note: I have been trying Evolution. While it has all the required features, I dislike the interface. Probably due to the GTK3 theming, it just doesn't feel good. On 26/10/20 02:15, Mark Rousell wrote: > Thanks. However, I am very familiar with tb-planning (and other > Thunderbird mail lists) and have been a member of and contributor to > tb-planning for over five years. I have reached my current views despite > (or perhaps because of) what I heave learned on tb-planning and other > TB-related mail lists/groups. > > One thing that I have learned is that (in my experience and as far as I > can tell) expressing views that are not in accordance with those of the > leadership is completely pointless. Nothing I can say will have any > influence, benefit or use whatsoever. > > I understand the direction that the current leadership of the > Thunderbird project is taking and their reasons for it and I do not > agree with them, neither in substance nor in operational style. I do not > think that Thunderbird will benefit overall in the longer run with the > current direction. > > I understand and appreciate the difficulties that a project such as > Thunderbird (with a lot of legacy code) faces but understanding both the > difficulties and the leadership direction and style do not mean that I > agree with them. > > For these (and other) reasons, I still read all of the > Thunderbird-related mail lists but no longer contribute or comment to them. > > As I said in my earlier message, I am sticking with Thunderbird only > until I can identify a better alternative. It would be churlish of me to > claim that nothing that the current project is doing is of value and so > I say no such thing (i.e. some work undoubtedly will be of positive > benefit) but, all the same, I do not think that Thunderbird as a fully > featured thick mail client has a secure future as things now stand. And > so I am looking for viable alternatives for both myself and my clients. > OpenPGP_0xBC2BF0C6886EB132.asc Description: application/pgp-keys OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:15:47 + Mark Rousell wrote: > On 25/10/2020 18:20, Ludovic Bellière wrote: > > Hello Mark, it seems that you are highly concerned with the path > > Thunderbird is taking for the future. Might I suggest to you, and > > everyone following this exchange for that matter, to head over the > > [tb- planning][1] mailing list. It's purpose is to, quote: > > > > 1. *Offer an easy, transparent venue for getting constructive, > > Thunderbird-related work done.* > > 2. *Offering community members the chance to post until they get > > satisfaction about their concerns.* > > > > I am pretty sure that if you were to gently explain your concern and > > future perceived issue, somebody would gladly take the time to > > answer you. It is not, however, a place to request supports. > > Thanks. However, I am very familiar with tb-planning (and other > Thunderbird mail lists) and have been a member of and contributor to > tb-planning for over five years. I have reached my current views > despite (or perhaps because of) what I heave learned on tb-planning > and other TB-related mail lists/groups. > > One thing that I have learned is that (in my experience and as far as > I can tell) expressing views that are not in accordance with those of > the leadership is completely pointless. Nothing I can say will have > any influence, benefit or use whatsoever. > +1 to this and your previous comments about TB, developers, governance, and the insane blind leap to follow Firefox and destroy the plugin system, which for many was the best thing about TB. TB is really becoming like an Electron app for Firefox - just a browser with a few bells and whistles - you may as well use webmail. The greatest irony is them wanting to ban all popups and 'use tabs' for everything grr. Shame they allow little balloons and dropdowns and notifiers and loads of other nonsense everywhere in browsers, and allow webdevs to throw whatever js boxes they like on screen. Hypocrisy IMHO. Yes, forking the browser side would have been difficult for maintenance, but they made no attempt to have any sort of reasoned debate about any of it - "our way or the highway". TB Planning is heavily censored and any opinions that contradict the leaders are shot down rapidly. Council members have to sign an NDA that has not been published (why DID they need to make it TB corporation and for not a NFP?). Mozilla themselves are ban any TB dissent - including just banning a well known community member from ALL online SM channels relating to Mozilla, even apparently ones they do not control, for some apparent minor misdemeanour they didn't like.. the place has gone properly batsh1t mad. The problem is decent alternatives are not great - it is the only reason they still hold the share that they do. But quite simply, without the plugins we may as well just use Evolution. As such we will stay on an old version with working plugins doing what we need and will do for the foreseeable future. It does all WE need. We'll move on when we change things in due course. Personally I would not now recommend TB under any circumstances, having previously recommended it since I started using at around v1. No wonder the world is moving to instant messaging - and they are so keen to get their 'chat' app in there. Sad times indeed. pgpGByocXfEFT.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] [OT] YouTube archivism targeted
TL;DR: YouTube-dl DMCA The RIAA successfully applied a DMCA takedown to GitHub (Microsoft) for an archivism program which downloads YouTube video/audio (although it does target other services). https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/ https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2020/10/2020-10-23-RIAA.md I expect that YouTube will obfuscate the way it delivers content so as to make the existing youtube-dl release (and other similar software) nonfunctional (perhaps only for a time). Curiously there was recently a bit of drama and then a fork (also DMCA'd) over the problem of urgent youtube-dl pull requests being left unreviewed. I have no proof for this instance, but I've always maintained that controlled forks, or for a few thousand dollars the right developers, could be made to drag their feet and damage FOSS alternatives / etc; it might be cheaper than lawyers, FUD, lobbyists etc. The developer(s) are alive and its website still has a download, but they're a hair away from being targeted more directly. https://youtube-dl.org/ Sure there have been "protest forks" already, but that alone doesn't mean anything unless efforts centre around one in particular. Where other people will be focused on the code, I'm concerned about the documentation. All of the wikis, pull requests, inline code-comments, issues and their conversation have been purged. (Not many people even think to clone a project's separate GitHub wiki repository.) But back to YouTube itself. The inability to download videos will have an impact in that "inconvenient" videos can't so easily be kept, fair-use commentated-upon, and (re-)uploaded. Everyday people wouldn't be able to signal boost or contribute to a Streisand effect, making videos (and people) easier to memoryhole. GitHub is obviously untrustworthy for mirrors/forks. These are likely to stay up longer: https://source.netsyms.com/Mirrors/l1ving_youtube-dl https://git.datahoarder.dev/whalehub/l1ving_youtube-dl https://gitea.datahoarding.agency/ZenulAbidin/youtube-dl ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] YouTube archivism targeted
Thanks for the alternative git repositories. I was already wondering yesterday what happend - well, "Die Gier is a Hund" or in almost english "Greed is a dog" :/ Nik Anno domini 2020 Mon, 26 Oct 11:47:25 -0700 spiralofhope scripsit: > TL;DR: YouTube-dl DMCA > > > > > > The RIAA successfully applied a DMCA takedown to GitHub (Microsoft) for > an archivism program which downloads YouTube video/audio (although it > does target other services). > > https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl/ > https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2020/10/2020-10-23-RIAA.md > > I expect that YouTube will obfuscate the way it delivers content so > as to make the existing youtube-dl release (and other similar software) > nonfunctional (perhaps only for a time). > > Curiously there was recently a bit of drama and then a fork (also > DMCA'd) over the problem of urgent youtube-dl pull requests being left > unreviewed. I have no proof for this instance, but I've always > maintained that controlled forks, or for a few thousand dollars the > right developers, could be made to drag their feet and damage FOSS > alternatives / etc; it might be cheaper than lawyers, FUD, lobbyists > etc. > > The developer(s) are alive and its website still has a download, but > they're a hair away from being targeted more directly. > > https://youtube-dl.org/ > > Sure there have been "protest forks" already, but that alone doesn't > mean anything unless efforts centre around one in particular. > > Where other people will be focused on the code, I'm concerned about the > documentation. All of the wikis, pull requests, inline code-comments, > issues and their conversation have been purged. > > (Not many people even think to clone a project's separate GitHub wiki > repository.) > > But back to YouTube itself. The inability to download videos will > have an impact in that "inconvenient" videos can't so easily be kept, > fair-use commentated-upon, and (re-)uploaded. Everyday people wouldn't > be able to signal boost or contribute to a Streisand effect, making > videos (and people) easier to memoryhole. > > > GitHub is obviously untrustworthy for mirrors/forks. These are likely > to stay up longer: > > https://source.netsyms.com/Mirrors/l1ving_youtube-dl > https://git.datahoarder.dev/whalehub/l1ving_youtube-dl > https://gitea.datahoarding.agency/ZenulAbidin/youtube-dl > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ... ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 10/26/20 5:07 AM, Dimitris via Dng wrote: forgot to mention seamonkey (https://www.seamonkey-project.org/). -- also these days, webmail/nextcloud can be used as groupware too, with calendars/contacts included.. webmail gpg support is very rare (for a pretty good reason imo), but mailpile can be used instead... I use SOGo. Though, I *also* need an email client. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
