Re: [DNG] systemd and wlan0 interface problem
On 07/03/2018 11:04 PM, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 04/07/2018 à 05:10, Jimmy Johnson a écrit : On 07/03/2018 09:35 AM, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 02/07/2018 à 10:49, Jimmy Johnson a écrit : There is another option I do not see mentioned in this thread and that is to purge network manager and use wicd exclusively, I have done that and it works swell. Better purge both. Didier Why? Thanks, As already said, they are useless - provided network-tools is installed and interfaces correctly configured - and these two network managers tend to configure/deconfigure the network interfaces in a way which isn't the one you want. They essentially mess up the configuration. Didier It sounds like you are talking about network manager. I don't believe wicd has the traits you are talking about. As for me it's handy to connect and disconnect, mostly disconnect while using multimedia. I've never heard of wicd doing anything wrong, it's certainly not part of systemd or married to systemd in any way. Thanks, -- Jimmy Johnson Devuan Jessie - KDE 4.14.2 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda2 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and wlan0 interface problem
On Wed, Jul 04, 2018 at 12:54:28AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote: [cut] > > It sounds like you are talking about network manager. I don't believe wicd > has the traits you are talking about. As for me it's handy to connect and > disconnect, mostly disconnect while using multimedia. I've never heard of > wicd doing anything wrong, [cut] That's because probably you haven't needed to use wicd for something more specific than "configure wlan0" :) I used wicd for several years, and I had always to swear against the gods of three or four religions to have it do what I wanted. The hardest thing was to convince wicd that I wanted a *specific* wi-fi connection among the several available: it kept choosing what it preferred, probably on the basis of "signal strength", and kept disconnecting and reconecting every time somebody entered the room or moved a chair. I had to manually disable the connections I didn't want to use, then manually re-enable them. I guess they eventually fixed that introducing priorities, but still, IMHO a software should do what I tell it to do, not what it likes or wishes... Anyway, it's mainly a matter of preference here, and luckily we have enough alternatives so far :) HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and wlan0 interface problem
Le 04/07/2018 à 09:54, Jimmy Johnson a écrit : On 07/03/2018 11:04 PM, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 04/07/2018 à 05:10, Jimmy Johnson a écrit : On 07/03/2018 09:35 AM, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 02/07/2018 à 10:49, Jimmy Johnson a écrit : There is another option I do not see mentioned in this thread and that is to purge network manager and use wicd exclusively, I have done that and it works swell. Better purge both. Didier Why? Thanks, As already said, they are useless - provided network-tools is installed and interfaces correctly configured - and these two network managers tend to configure/deconfigure the network interfaces in a way which isn't the one you want. They essentially mess up the configuration. Didier It sounds like you are talking about network manager. I don't believe wicd has the traits you are talking about. As for me it's handy to connect and disconnect, mostly disconnect while using multimedia. I've never heard of wicd doing anything wrong, it's certainly not part of systemd or married to systemd in any way. Thanks, Let me explain in a different way what I have understood - and I may be wrong on wicd because I remove it immediately after every install, as well as I used to do with network-manager. There are 4 ways to configure your network: 1) Invoke the ip command and wpa_supplicant by hand all the time, or write your own scripts 2) the good old net-tools, which provides ifupdown, the interfaces file and all the ready-made scripts 3) network-manager, which is a replacement for the previous, decides of everything, and cannot be configured. 4) wicd, that is essentially the same logic as network-manager, rewritten and with another name. They cannot live all three together: they continuously fight against each other. net-tools gives you full power; it can be configured in great detail. At the cost of reading some docs, of course. network-manager and wicd do everything for you, but don't complain if it's not what you want. And, to tell everything, if you need dynamic interfaces configuration/deconfiguration, you also need ifplugd or netplug (again, don't install both). I think netplug must be configured by editing the config file, while ifplugd is configured by running dpkg-reconfigure. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and wlan0 interface problem
On 07/04/2018 01:25 AM, KatolaZ wrote: On Wed, Jul 04, 2018 at 12:54:28AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote: [cut] It sounds like you are talking about network manager. I don't believe wicd has the traits you are talking about. As for me it's handy to connect and disconnect, mostly disconnect while using multimedia. I've never heard of wicd doing anything wrong, [cut] That's because probably you haven't needed to use wicd for something more specific than "configure wlan0" :) I used wicd for several years, and I had always to swear against the gods of three or four religions to have it do what I wanted. The hardest thing was to convince wicd that I wanted a *specific* wi-fi connection among the several available: it kept choosing what it preferred, probably on the basis of "signal strength", and kept disconnecting and reconecting every time somebody entered the room or moved a chair. I had to manually disable the connections I didn't want to use, then manually re-enable them. That sounds like network manager was installed at the time and not a wicd problem, wicd gets blamed because you can see it in your tray, while NM is in the background messing with your connection. I may be wrong but I don't think network manager is good or helpful in any way, causes way to many problems and confusion for the average user. I guess they eventually fixed that introducing priorities, but still, IMHO a software should do what I tell it to do, not what it likes or wishes... Anyway, it's mainly a matter of preference here, and luckily we have enough alternatives so far :) Thanks, -- Jimmy Johnson Devuan Jessie - KDE 4.14.2 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda2 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and wlan0 interface problem
On 07/04/2018 02:04 AM, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 04/07/2018 à 09:54, Jimmy Johnson a écrit : On 07/03/2018 11:04 PM, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 04/07/2018 à 05:10, Jimmy Johnson a écrit : On 07/03/2018 09:35 AM, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 02/07/2018 à 10:49, Jimmy Johnson a écrit : There is another option I do not see mentioned in this thread and that is to purge network manager and use wicd exclusively, I have done that and it works swell. Better purge both. Didier Why? Thanks, As already said, they are useless - provided network-tools is installed and interfaces correctly configured - and these two network managers tend to configure/deconfigure the network interfaces in a way which isn't the one you want. They essentially mess up the configuration. Didier It sounds like you are talking about network manager. I don't believe wicd has the traits you are talking about. As for me it's handy to connect and disconnect, mostly disconnect while using multimedia. I've never heard of wicd doing anything wrong, it's certainly not part of systemd or married to systemd in any way. Thanks, Let me explain in a different way what I have understood - and I may be wrong on wicd because I remove it immediately after every install, as well as I used to do with network-manager. There are 4 ways to configure your network: 1) Invoke the ip command and wpa_supplicant by hand all the time, or write your own scripts 2) the good old net-tools, which provides ifupdown, the interfaces file and all the ready-made scripts 3) network-manager, which is a replacement for the previous, decides of everything, and cannot be configured. 4) wicd, that is essentially the same logic as network-manager, rewritten and with another name. They cannot live all three together: they continuously fight against each other. net-tools gives you full power; it can be configured in great detail. At the cost of reading some docs, of course. network-manager and wicd do everything for you, but don't complain if it's not what you want. And, to tell everything, if you need dynamic interfaces configuration/deconfiguration, you also need ifplugd or netplug (again, don't install both). I think netplug must be configured by editing the config file, while ifplugd is configured by running dpkg-reconfigure. Didier If you don't want to use wicd, that's fine, but blame it for things that NM is doing is silly and technically not helpful to anyone. Thanks, -- Jimmy Johnson Devuan Jessie - KDE 4.14.2 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda2 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and wlan0 interface problem
On Wed, Jul 04, 2018 at 02:15:46AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote: [cut] > > > > I used wicd for several years, and I had always to swear against the > > gods of three or four religions to have it do what I wanted. The > > hardest thing was to convince wicd that I wanted a *specific* wi-fi > > connection among the several available: it kept choosing what it > > preferred, probably on the basis of "signal strength", and kept > > disconnecting and reconecting every time somebody entered the room or > > moved a chair. I had to manually disable the connections I didn't want > > to use, then manually re-enable them. > > > That sounds like network manager was installed at the time and not a wicd > problem, wicd gets blamed because you can see it in your tray, while NM is > in the background messing with your connection. > > I may be wrong but I don't think network manager is good or helpful in any > way, causes way to many problems and confusion for the average user. > I don't know about you, but I always know exactly, at any point in time, what software is installed in my system. And I am 100% sure that network-manager has *never* been installed in any of the machines I have administered or used in the last 20 years :) So the fault was genuinely due to wicd, and my swearing was more than justified ;) P.S.: there is no tray at all in xmonad... HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - Devuan -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and wlan0 interface problem
On 07/04/2018 02:28 AM, KatolaZ wrote: On Wed, Jul 04, 2018 at 02:15:46AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote: [cut] I used wicd for several years, and I had always to swear against the gods of three or four religions to have it do what I wanted. The hardest thing was to convince wicd that I wanted a *specific* wi-fi connection among the several available: it kept choosing what it preferred, probably on the basis of "signal strength", and kept disconnecting and reconecting every time somebody entered the room or moved a chair. I had to manually disable the connections I didn't want to use, then manually re-enable them. That sounds like network manager was installed at the time and not a wicd problem, wicd gets blamed because you can see it in your tray, while NM is in the background messing with your connection. I may be wrong but I don't think network manager is good or helpful in any way, causes way to many problems and confusion for the average user. I don't know about you, but I always know exactly, at any point in time, what software is installed in my system. And I am 100% sure that network-manager has *never* been installed in any of the machines I have administered or used in the last 20 years :) So the fault was genuinely due to wicd, and my swearing was more than justified ;) If network/interfaces is not configured then wicd will not work. -- Jimmy Johnson Devuan Jessie - KDE 4.14.2 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda2 Registered Linux User #380263 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and wlan0 interface problem
Le 04/07/2018 à 11:33, John Hughes a écrit : On 04/07/18 11:04, Didier Kryn wrote: 3) network-manager, which is a replacement for the previous, decides of everything, and cannot be configured. ? man nmcli No manual entry for nmcli But this is just because I haven't network-manager installed :-) To tell the true story, I'm rather happy with net-tools. I just noticed long ago that network-manager was messing up what I configured with net-tools, and it didn't bring any benefit. Therefore it became the first package I systematically removed right after a Debian install. I have configured servers with several ethernet interfaces to different LANs, including some with interface bonding. On laptops, I have wifi roaming with many different wifi stations recorded, and automatic connection to the present station, with priority to Ethernet when plugged in. Everything simple, logical, automatic, and the way everyone wants it, and I don't need neither nm nor wicd for that. I can't see any improvement I would need, except a simpler configuration, and except that, as from ASCII, the init script deserves a little hack. If somedy finds a system which does as well or even better and/or is easier to configure, I might try it, but, for the moment, I see on this list that nm and wicd are a major source of problems. But, after all, maybe all these complains will find their way upstream and this will help to improve wicd and make it become a good solution. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and wlan0 interface problem
On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 at 02:53:05 -0700 Jimmy Johnson wrote: > On 07/04/2018 02:28 AM, KatolaZ wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 04, 2018 at 02:15:46AM -0700, Jimmy Johnson wrote: >> >> [cut] >> I used wicd for several years, and I had always to swear against the gods of three or four religions to have it do what I wanted. The hardest thing was to convince wicd that I wanted a *specific* wi-fi connection among the several available: it kept choosing what it preferred, probably on the basis of "signal strength", and kept disconnecting and reconecting every time somebody entered the room or moved a chair. I had to manually disable the connections I didn't want to use, then manually re-enable them. >>> >>> >>> That sounds like network manager was installed at the time and not a wicd >>> problem, wicd gets blamed because you can see it in your tray, while NM >>> is in the background messing with your connection. >>> >>> I may be wrong but I don't think network manager is good or helpful in >>> any way, causes way to many problems and confusion for the average user. >>> >> >> I don't know about you, but I always know exactly, at any point in >> time, what software is installed in my system. And I am 100% sure that >> network-manager has *never* been installed in any of the machines I >> have administered or used in the last 20 years :) >> >> So the fault was genuinely due to wicd, and my swearing was more than >> justified ;) > > > If network/interfaces is not configured then wicd will not work. That I know of, network/interfaces does not depend on NM. I do have it, it works fine on all my Ascii systems, and just like KatolaZ "I am 100% sure that network-manager has *never* been installed in any of the machines I have administered or used in the last 20 years :)" (lol, BTW). Alessandro ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd and wlan0 interface problem
El 04/07/18 a las 09:54, Jimmy Johnson escribió: I've never heard of wicd doing anything wrong, it's certainly not part of systemd or married to systemd in any way. But it depends on dbus. Aitor. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] NFS failure New ascii to upgraded ascii.
I have a newish system that had devuan-Jessie installed and then recently upgrade to Devuan-Ascii. It has been acting as a NFS reliabnle from its installation some months ago. The NFS server was a Debian-stretch system that has just been upgraded to Devuan-Ascii. For some reason, the client now errors out when it attempt to NFS mount disks from the server. The error message are(three mounts); mount -a mount.nfs: requested NFS version or transport protocol is not supported mount.nfs: requested NFS version or transport protocol is not supported mount.nfs: requested NFS version or transport protocol is not supported Both systems are at Linux 4.9.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.88-1+deb9u1 (2018-05-07) x86_64 GNU/Linux A simiar problem exists on a Devuan-jessie system when it tries to access the same mounts. The error message from jessie is; mount.nfs: mount(2): Connection refused. Both the Ascii systems have been updated and upgraded since changes to ensure they should be identical in software. Ideas? Investigations? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
