Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse
Am 2017-09-20 22:03, schrieb zap: Noscript is not on chromium or google chrome for an obvious reason. Noscript is the reason I will always use waterfox or a modified firefox over anything else. There is ScriptSafe for Chrome/Chromium which is basically the same as Noscript. Jochen ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Vivaldi
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 02:36:22 +0200, mdn wrote in message <59c30986@openmailbox.org>: > Le 21/09/2017 00:53, Arnt Karlsen a écrit : > > On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 23:55:47 +0200, mdn wrote in message > > <59c2e3e3.6010...@openmailbox.org>: > > > >> Le 20/09/2017 22:26, airmoose a écrit : > >>> Since there is currently some discussion about Chrome/Chromium > >>> security concerns, is Vivaldi (based on Chromium code I > >>> understand) also affected with the same security issues? > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivaldi_(web_browser) > >> https://vivaldi.com/privacy/vivaldi-end-user-license-agreement/ > >> Vivaldi is Proprietary software. > >> Don't trust what can't be audited. > >> Chromium is maybe "open source" but the permissive licenses that it > >> has permits to not share the source of the distributed binaries. > >> Like said at the beginning it can become Proprietary software thus > >> you can't audit it if it's closed. > >> > >> Has for the chromium security problems that you mentioned chromium > >> is known for not being for the user: > >> https://trisquel.info/en/forum/chromium-unconditionally-downloads-binary-blob > > > > ..I duck-ducked: > > https://duckduckgo.com/?q=systemd+vivaldi&ia=web > > https://forum.vivaldi.net/search?term=systemd&in=titlesposts&sortBy=relevance&sortDirection=desc&showAs=posts > > > Your point is ? ..your footer really says it best: If you can't compile it, dump it. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] GUIs font sizes
Since upgrading from Debian Wheezy to Devuan Jessie, I have a font size problem in several programs, like flpsed, imagemagick, timidity: the font size used in the GUIs of those programs is so small I cannot read them. I suspect it might be a Qt/Gtk problem ? Any idea where to dig for making those prog fonts great again ? Cheers, Ron. -- Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself. -- A.H. Weiler -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse
Le 20/09/2017 à 17:10, dev a écrit :
On 09/20/2017 01:30 AM, Didier Kryn wrote:
Anyone have it working on Devuan and Firefox 55.0.3 64bit ?
I built it on Devuan Jessie without any glitch and Skype seems happy
with it.
Oh! I did not see this earlier. how are you launching firefox?
Do you have APULSE_PLAYBACK_DEVICE or LD_LIBRARY_PATH set ?
Would you post contents of Firefox?:
about:config > security.sandbox.content.write_path_whitelist
Thank you
I built Apulse on a Devuan-Jessie x86_64 without Pulseaudio. This
was for Skype to install without error. It was happy at installation but
the microphone does not work. One of the machines on which it is
installed is a desktop without a microphone therefore this isn't a
software issue, but the other is a laptop with a microphone. Your mail
reminds me that Pulseaudio "clients" need to be launched in a special
way for Apulse to play its role, and there is a script for that,
/usr/local/bin/apulse
---
#!/bin/sh
APULSEPATH="/usr/local/lib/apulse"
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$APULSEPATH${LD_LIBRARY_PATH:+:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH} exec "$@"
---
Therefore the command in skypeforlinux.desktop should be changed from
Exec=/usr/bin/skypeforlinux %U
to
Exec=/usr/local/bin/apulse /usr/bin/skypeforlinux %U
And this should be done for all Pulseaudio "clients". I will try to
launch Skype like this as soon as possible on the laptop.
The preferred browser on the two machines is Palemoon, installed
from some Suze repository. There is also Firefox installed and it works
with Alsa only, since it is always launched from the standard .desktop
launcher. Maybe I should check if the version of FF is the last one and
check it still works. I will also try to launch it with pulseaudio.
AFAIU, the only thing the script is doing is to include
/usr/local/lib/apulse in LD_LIBRARY_PATH; therefore it should be enough
to add a a proper file apulse.conf in /etc/ld.so.conf.d and run
ldconfig. And then the standard .desktop files could be used.
Didier
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Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse
Le 21/09/2017 à 11:49, Didier Kryn a écrit : The preferred browser on the two machines is Palemoon, installed from some Suze repository. There is also Firefox installed and it works with Alsa only, since it is always launched from the standard .desktop launcher. Maybe I should check if the version of FF is the last one and check it still works. I will also try to launch it with pulseaudio. Sorry, I mean with Apulse. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Gnome?
Le 20/09/2017 à 20:07, Steve Litt a écrit : On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:31:38 -0400 John Franklin wrote: That said, there are plenty who either like it or at least have gotten used to it. If we could get Gnome working here, it would attract more users to Devuan. Serious question: Do we want that kind of user? Somebody who knows enough to discern a difference between Gnome and Xfce, but doesn't understand how interchangeable WMDEs are, nor how much work it would take Devuan to keep on undoing all the systemd dependencies Gnome will doubtlessly keep sewing into Gnome? You can't please all the people all the time, and prioritization of resources means some are simply going to choose other distros. In other words, should Devuan try to seduce those people who just look for a gratuitous Windows? This is typically what Gnome is doing. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Gnome?
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 11:57:37 +0200, Didier wrote in message <848f652f-8b44-800f-88c1-da35cb086...@in2p3.fr>: > Le 20/09/2017 à 20:07, Steve Litt a écrit : > > On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:31:38 -0400 > > John Franklin wrote: > > > > > >> That said, there are plenty who either like it or at least have > >> gotten used to it. If we could get Gnome working here, it would > >> attract more users to Devuan. > > Serious question: Do we want that kind of user? Somebody who knows > > enough to discern a difference between Gnome and Xfce, but doesn't > > understand how interchangeable WMDEs are, nor how much work it would > > take Devuan to keep on undoing all the systemd dependencies Gnome > > will doubtlessly keep sewing into Gnome? > > > > You can't please all the people all the time, and prioritization of > > resources means some are simply going to choose other distros. > > > In other words, should Devuan try to seduce those people who > just look for a gratuitous Windows? This is typically what Gnome is > doing. ..it more like they have (successfully) seduced developers into wasting their time on less than worthwhile code to help the guy who started GNOME.ORG "earn a job at Microsoft", _somehow_. .."yes, Qt licensing sucked, yes, sysv is old and sucks, but you say the fix is Gnome and systemd???" ;oD -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Has anyone tried waterfox?
On 21.09.2017 04:09, zap wrote: Hi, haven't tried waterfox yet, and didn't get in contact w/ the folks behind, but I've started an own fork: Librezilla. https://github.com/Librezilla It's pretty experimental yet, and still based on esr52 (because of the rust problem). BTW: it seems that waterfox *does* enable EME: https://github.com/MrAlex94/Waterfox/blob/e0e4243228d88be5e09aaa964b5692d8db1553f0/.mozconfig > ac_add_options --enable-eme=widevine --mtx -- mit freundlichen Grüßen -- Enrico, Sohn von Wilfried, a.d.F. Weigelt, metux IT consulting +49-151-27565287 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Debian drops Qt4
Because of discussions here about suitable open-source GUIs, I'm pointing out that Qt4 is being dropped by Debian. So anyone wanting Qt will have to use Qt5. I don't know what the portability or upgrade implications are. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2017/08/msg6.html -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Has anyone tried waterfox?
> > BTW: it seems that waterfox *does* enable EME: > > https://github.com/MrAlex94/Waterfox/blob/e0e4243228d88be5e09aaa964b5692d8db1553f0/.mozconfig > > > > ac_add_options --enable-eme=widevine > > > --mtx Thankfully that is the only issue I know of, and it can be disabled. in many ways... ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
Under Debian, I could su to root in a console, and launch gparted from the CLI. Now, I get: ron@ron:~/Desktop $ su Password: No protocol specified xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' No protocol specified xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' No protocol specified xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' No protocol specified xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' No protocol specified xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' No protocol specified xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' root@ron:/home/ron/Desktop # gparted No protocol specified (gpartedbin:4721): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0.0 What did I do wrong ? And by the way, logging in under xdm (?) I had a shock when the Debian name and loogo appeared on the login screen... Cheers, Ron. -- As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing. -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 11:12:19AM -0400, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: > Under Debian, I could su to root in a console, and launch gparted from the > CLI. > > Now, I get: > > ron@ron:~/Desktop $ su > Password: > No protocol specified > xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' > No protocol specified > xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' > No protocol specified > xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' > No protocol specified > xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' > No protocol specified > xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' > No protocol specified > xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' > > root@ron:/home/ron/Desktop # gparted > No protocol specified > > (gpartedbin:4721): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0.0 > > What did I do wrong ? > > And by the way, logging in under xdm (?) I had a shock when the Debian name > and loogo appeared on the login screen... > you probably just need to `xhost +` from the "regular" user account before su-ing. By default the current display is not accessible by any user except the one who launched it. root is not an exception. My2Cents KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
On 2017-09-21 10:12, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: And by the way, logging in under xdm (?) I had a shock when the Debian name and logo appeared on the login screen... Cheers, Ron. Hi Ron, There was an issue opened up about this 9 months ago: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-art/issues/14 Devuan alternatives were created specifically for xdm but never transferred to the project and repackaged. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
On 09/21/2017 11:33 AM, KatolaZ wrote: > On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 11:12:19AM -0400, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: >> Under Debian, I could su to root in a console, and launch gparted from the >> CLI. >> >> Now, I get: >> >> ron@ron:~/Desktop $ su >> Password: >> No protocol specified >> xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' >> No protocol specified >> xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' >> No protocol specified >> xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' >> No protocol specified >> xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' >> No protocol specified >> xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' >> No protocol specified >> xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' >> >> root@ron:/home/ron/Desktop # gparted >> No protocol specified >> >> (gpartedbin:4721): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0.0 >> >> What did I do wrong ? >> >> And by the way, logging in under xdm (?) I had a shock when the Debian name >> and loogo appeared on the login screen... >> > > you probably just need to `xhost +` from the "regular" user account > before su-ing. By default the current display is not accessible by any > user except the one who launched it. root is not an exception. > > My2Cents > > KatolaZ > > > I do it all the time without ever using xhost. su to root (not 'su -') and you should be able to launch graphical apps. I use gparted a lot. I assume that you mean a console/terminal inside an X-session. BTW, it's pretty easy to change the logo in xdm, and I'll tell you if I can remember where the file is. That install is gone already. I didn't figure out how to change the words. Maybe it's another graphic. I was looking for text. Anyway, check out the .xpm files in /etc/X11/xpm (I think it's there and not /usr/share). fsmithred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Has anyone tried waterfox?
On 21.09.2017 16:49, zap wrote: Thankfully that is the only issue I know of, and it can be disabled. in many ways... Not entirely trivial (at least on esr52): assuming it builds at all, it will only disable the widevine part, but still leaves the whole EME infrastructure intact. When I last checked, disabling EME caused a huge number of build breaks. Note: didn't try anything newer than esr52, as I didn't want to open the huge rust pandorra box. --mtx ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] librezilla: [WAS: Has anyone tried waterfox?]
On 21.09.2017 16:51, zap wrote: I look forward to such an idea, will it support alsa and Didn't touch the ALSA part yet - if upstream supports it, shouldn't be a problem. OTOH, if upstream drops it, we need some deeper thoughts on that. Perhaps think about an generic crossplatform audio library. > be completely software If you MPL free, yes. No blobs, etc. And no systemd deps, of course (actually, haven't seen any yet) Also get rid of all dbus deps. disable eme, tracking from mozilla, etc...? yes, patching it out completely. also geoloc, sensors, etc. Note: I can't do that alone - need some helping hands. There's a maillist @google: librezilla --mtx ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 10:39:13 -0500 goli...@dyne.org wrote: > There was an issue opened up about this 9 months ago: > https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-art/issues/14 > Devuan alternatives were created specifically for xdm but never > transferred to the project and repackaged. OK ta, I'll look for a different one. Cheers, Ron. -- Any stigma, as the old saying is, will serve to beat a dogma. -- Philip Guedalla -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] librezilla: [WAS: Has anyone tried waterfox?]
> > > be completely software > > If you MPL free, yes. No blobs, etc. > And no systemd deps, of course (actually, haven't seen any yet) > Also get rid of all dbus deps. > >> disable eme, tracking from mozilla, etc...? > > yes, patching it out completely. also geoloc, sensors, etc. > > Note: I can't do that alone - need some helping hands. > > There's a maillist @google: librezilla > > --mtx Also, if possible, it would be nice though not required, to add spyblock from icecat into the browser addons... Again not required but it would be awesome. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] librezilla: [WAS: Has anyone tried waterfox?]
Excuse me for interrupting this conversation, but, what is the point of making sure a browser is secure knowing there is a complete HIDDEN OS running all the time? I have no idea what it does and what functions it offers to the outside world. To learn about such functions I must either believe Intel or accept what reverse engineers found. The fact that even GNU/Linux cannot get rid of such an OS is depleting me of motivation to seek a more secure system. For me, it is becoming enough if I can use a computer and be cautious if I do not want to disclose sensitive/private information. I remember, more than a decade ago, when I still did not have an internet connection, I was a staunch believer that security necessarily implied NO NETWOK CONNECTION. Sorry for my intrusive rant. -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) If you cannot make abstructions about details you do not understand the concepts underlying them. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 16:33:23 +0100 KatolaZ wrote: > you probably just need to `xhost +` from the "regular" user account > before su-ing. By default the current display is not accessible by any > user except the one who launched it. root is not an exception. Anything against having `xhost +` in ~/.bashrc ? Cheers, Ron. -- Any stigma, as the old saying is, will serve to beat a dogma. -- Philip Guedalla -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Gnome?
help the guy who started GNOME.ORG "earn a job at Microsoft", Some people consider that a reward. Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] librezilla: [WAS: Has anyone tried waterfox?]
On 21.09.2017 18:12, Edward Bartolo wrote: Excuse me for interrupting this conversation, but, what is the point of making sure a browser is secure knowing there is a complete HIDDEN OS running all the time? Not everybody uses (recent) x86 :p We can't take care of everything at once, and IME backdoors probably aren't available to everyone (and exploitable everywhere). The fact that even GNU/Linux cannot get rid of such an OS is depleting me of motivation to seek a more secure system. Look for ARM or PPC. I'm pretty busy in embedded world, and I'm quite sure there're no such backdoors, if you build your own boards (or use common SoMs). Sorry for my intrusive rant. I can understand your frustration, but we aren't completely lost. We just have a lot of work to do and need to carefully revise our systems. Librezilla is one of many projects where we need all hands on deck for a while - until the big threats are out. After the initial phase, the load will go down heavily (we yet have to decide whether we stay on esr52 and maintain it in our fork - and *intentionally* ignore all these fancy future (mis)features, or base on mainline and drop all the unwanted stuff). --mtx -- mit freundlichen Grüßen -- Enrico, Sohn von Wilfried, a.d.F. Weigelt, metux IT consulting +49-151-27565287 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse
Didier Kryn wrote: > I built Apulse on a Devuan-Jessie x86_64 without Pulseaudio. This was > for Skype to install without error. That's odd. I installed the skypeforlinux.deb file on deuvan jessie without the pulseaudio server. I do have some pulse audio libraries: libpulse-dev:amd64 5.0-13+devuan2 PulseAudio client development headers and libraries libpulse-mainloop-glib0:amd64 5.0-13+devuan2 PulseAudio client libraries (glib support) libpulse0:amd64 5.0-13+devuan2 PulseAudio client libraries cheers, -- Joel Roth ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse
On 21.09.2017 19:49, Joel Roth wrote: That's odd. I installed the skypeforlinux.deb file on deuvan jessie without the pulseaudio server. yes, it depends on pa library, but not the service - which is correct, as the server could be remote. --mtx ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debian drops Qt4
On 21/09/17 15:03, Hendrik Boom wrote: Because of discussions here about suitable open-source GUIs, I'm pointing out that Qt4 is being dropped by Debian. So anyone wanting Qt will have to use Qt5. I don't know what the portability or upgrade implications are. https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2017/08/msg6.html -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Thanks for the info. My laptop runs debian sid, I had half a dozen qt4 things installed including dependencies for 'jack' audio. I also have jackd2, a quick check and qt4 is now gone from my laptop. And it all still works! DaveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
On 21/09/17 16:41, fsmithred wrote: On 09/21/2017 11:33 AM, KatolaZ wrote: On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 11:12:19AM -0400, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: Under Debian, I could su to root in a console, and launch gparted from the CLI. Now, I get: ron@ron:~/Desktop $ su Password: No protocol specified xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' No protocol specified xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' No protocol specified xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' No protocol specified xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' No protocol specified xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' No protocol specified xmodmap: unable to open display ':0.0' root@ron:/home/ron/Desktop # gparted No protocol specified (gpartedbin:4721): Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display: :0.0 What did I do wrong ? And by the way, logging in under xdm (?) I had a shock when the Debian name and loogo appeared on the login screen... you probably just need to `xhost +` from the "regular" user account before su-ing. By default the current display is not accessible by any user except the one who launched it. root is not an exception. My2Cents KatolaZ I do it all the time without ever using xhost. su to root (not 'su -') and you should be able to launch graphical apps. I use gparted a lot. I assume that you mean a console/terminal inside an X-session. BTW, it's pretty easy to change the logo in xdm, and I'll tell you if I can remember where the file is. That install is gone already. I didn't figure out how to change the words. Maybe it's another graphic. I was looking for text. Anyway, check out the .xpm files in /etc/X11/xpm (I think it's there and not /usr/share). fsmithred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng A rummage around the interweb will find the devuan.xpm file you need, then a simple edit and job done. I did it on my iMac. Details to follow when I've finished my bottle of wine. Also, 'su' is just wrong, don't use it, always use sudo, and if you can find a decent .deb of OpenBSD 'doas' ported to linux use that, it is even better! DaveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 19:43:54 +0100 Dave Turner wrote: > Also, 'su' is just wrong, don't use it, always use sudo, If I wanted to always use sudo I would be running *ubuntu... Cheers, Ron. -- No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. -- Eleanor Roosevelt -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
Quoting Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI (ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org): > Anything against having `xhost +` in ~/.bashrc ? Local security, disabling of. One different method: $ ssh -Y root@localhost # gparted & # The '-Y' option enables X11 forwarding. (This of course requires sshd.) You can probably justify 'xhost +' if this is one of those I'm-the-only-user machines. Thank Ghu, remote network access to the X server is no longer enabled by default on Linux hosts. (The right way to do remote X11, IMO, is via 'ssh -Y u...@example.com', thereby forwarding X11 across the authenticated ssh tunnel.) One can argue that you should use 'ssh -Y' even locally so you get out of the habit of using 'xhost +'. I won't argue that, but will just put it out there. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 19:43:54 +0100 Dave Turner wrote: > > Also, 'su' is just wrong, don't use it, always use sudo, and if you > can find a decent .deb of OpenBSD 'doas' ported to linux use that, it > is even better! > Just because you think using 'su' is wrong, doesn't make it wrong, it is just wrong for you. This is all down to the sysadmins decision and I thought one of the main ideas behind Devuan is that nothing is forced on the sysadmin. Rowland ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
Rowland Penny writes: This is all down to the sysadmins decision and I thought one of the main ideas behind Devuan is that nothing is forced on the sysadmin. Systemd isn't forced on you. LOTS of other things are, starting with the choice of .deb as package format. Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:18:41 +0100 Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > Rowland Penny writes: > > This is all down to the sysadmins decision and I thought one of the > > main ideas behind Devuan is that nothing is forced on the sysadmin. > > Systemd isn't forced on you. LOTS of other things are, starting with > the choice of .deb as package format. > > Arnt Please stop being obtuse, You know very well what I meant. Devuan has to make some decision for you, but you accept them by accepting Devuan. What Devuan doesn't force on you are things like, what GUI to use (or force you to use one), sudo, su or anything like this. More importantly, it doesn't force systemd on you. In the post I replied to, Dave was trying to force everybody to NOT use su, this, in my opinion, is a denial of freedom of choice. Rowland ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
On 21/09/17 21:33, Rowland Penny wrote: On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:18:41 +0100 Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: Rowland Penny writes: This is all down to the sysadmins decision and I thought one of the main ideas behind Devuan is that nothing is forced on the sysadmin. Systemd isn't forced on you. LOTS of other things are, starting with the choice of .deb as package format. Arnt Please stop being obtuse, You know very well what I meant. Devuan has to make some decision for you, but you accept them by accepting Devuan. What Devuan doesn't force on you are things like, what GUI to use (or force you to use one), sudo, su or anything like this. More importantly, it doesn't force systemd on you. In the post I replied to, Dave was trying to force everybody to NOT use su, this, in my opinion, is a denial of freedom of choice. Rowland ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng The bottle of wine isn't quite finished yet, but I am not trying to force anyone to stop using 'su'. It IS a really bad idea though, rummage the interweb, somewhere in there is a really good write up on why su is bad and sudo is good. And doas is even better. DaveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
Rowland Penny writes: Please stop being obtuse, You know very well what I meant. I do indeed, and I think you're wrong. Devuan has taken a no-systemd decision, that's all. That isn't a promise from anyone to provide alternatives in any other question, or to make alternative packages. Not even an implicit promise. Devuan has to make some decision for you, but you accept them by accepting Devuan. I accept them, sure. What Devuan doesn't force on you are things like, what GUI to use (or force you to use one), sudo, su or anything like this. More importantly, it doesn't force systemd on you. As far as I can tell, the decision is "devian policy's is devuan's, except ABSOLUTELY NO SYSTEMD". Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:41:49 +0100 Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > Rowland Penny writes: > > Please stop being obtuse, You know very well what I meant. > > I do indeed, and I think you're wrong. Devuan has taken a no-systemd > decision, that's all. That isn't a promise from anyone to provide > alternatives in any other question, or to make alternative packages. > Not even an implicit promise. I never asked for any alternatives for anything, I just think that nobody should force their opinions on anybody, this is what Dave was trying to do. He thinks that using 'su' is wrong and very nearly demand that everybody had to stop using it. I am beginning to think that you, Arnt, could start an argument in an empty room. Rowland ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] And another new behaviour under Devuan.
My camera, cell phone and USB pendrives that used to mount without trouble under Debian now give an error "Not authorized" and I have to launch a Pcmanfm as root to access them. Lucky I learned this morning how to launch a prog as root from the CLI.. Why did the configuration change ? How can I restore it ? Cheers, Ron. -- It is inexcusable for scientists to torture animals; let them make their experiments on journalists and politicians. -- Henrik Ibsen -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
On 21/09/17 21:41, Dave Turner wrote: On 21/09/17 21:33, Rowland Penny wrote: On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:18:41 +0100 Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: Rowland Penny writes: This is all down to the sysadmins decision and I thought one of the main ideas behind Devuan is that nothing is forced on the sysadmin. Systemd isn't forced on you. LOTS of other things are, starting with the choice of .deb as package format. Arnt Please stop being obtuse, You know very well what I meant. Devuan has to make some decision for you, but you accept them by accepting Devuan. What Devuan doesn't force on you are things like, what GUI to use (or force you to use one), sudo, su or anything like this. More importantly, it doesn't force systemd on you. In the post I replied to, Dave was trying to force everybody to NOT use su, this, in my opinion, is a denial of freedom of choice. Rowland ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng The bottle of wine isn't quite finished yet, but I am not trying to force anyone to stop using 'su'. It IS a really bad idea though, rummage the interweb, somewhere in there is a really good write up on why su is bad and sudo is good. And doas is even better. DaveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng The bottle of wine is finished. once you have found devuan.xpm save it in /usr/share/X11/xdm/pixmaps edit /etc/x11/xdm somewhere around line 62 it needs to be this:- #if PLANES >= 8 xlogin*logoFileName: /usr/share/X11/xdm/pixmaps/devuan.xpm #else xlogin*logoFileName: /usr/share/X11/xdm/pixmaps/debianbw.xpm #endif sent without the devaun.xpm attachment beacuse with the attachment the message is considered too large and needs moderation. Watch this space - it might come through later! DaveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] And another new behaviour under Devuan.
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 05:21:17PM -0400, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: > My camera, cell phone and USB pendrives that used to mount without > trouble under Debian now give an error "Not authorized" and I have > to launch a Pcmanfm as root to access them. Lucky I learned this > morning how to launch a prog as root from the CLI.. > > Why did the configuration change ? I seem to remember that that was discussed some ttime ago in connexion with systemd. It's a change in Debian that was mitigated there by something obscure added into systemd. One more entanglemment. > > How can I restore it ? I don't recall what we decided hould be done about it. Perhaps a prog launched as root ... But I don't recall any specific programs being promoted. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse
Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote: > On 21.09.2017 19:49, Joel Roth wrote: > > > >That's odd. I installed the skypeforlinux.deb file on deuvan jessie without > >the pulseaudio server. > > yes, it depends on pa library, but not the service - which is correct, > as the server could be remote. My point is that if there is no pulseaudio server, skypeforlinux sends sound to the ALSA device, so that one needs to install neither pulseaudio nor apulse to use skype on devuan jessie (at least for the version of skype I downloaded.) regards, > --mtx > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- Joel Roth ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 12:06:40 -0700, Rick wrote in message <20170921190640.gm11...@linuxmafia.com>: > Quoting Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI (ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org): > > > Anything against having `xhost +` in ~/.bashrc ? > > Local security, disabling of. > > One different method: > > $ ssh -Y root@localhost > # gparted & > # > > The '-Y' option enables X11 forwarding. (This of course requires > sshd.) > > You can probably justify 'xhost +' if this is one of those > I'm-the-only-user machines. Thank Ghu, remote network access to the X > server is no longer enabled by default on Linux hosts. (The right way > to do remote X11, IMO, is via 'ssh -Y u...@example.com', thereby > forwarding X11 across the authenticated ssh tunnel.) > > One can argue that you should use 'ssh -Y' even locally so you get out > of the habit of using 'xhost +'. I won't argue that, but will just > put it out there. ..my prefecence was the -X option: ssh -X root@localhost until Debian killed it with some new policy. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no): > ..my prefecence was the -X option: ssh -X root@localhost > until Debian killed it with some new policy. Was it Debian that did that? I was never sure. I just remember that 'ssh -X' suddenly no longer did X11 forwarding as it used to, but I looked up the problem and saw that 'ssh -Y' now did that. I never chased down the matter further. (/me Web-searches:) It has something to do with 'untrusted X11', mentioned in passing here: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/12755/how-to-forward-x-over-ssh-to-run-graphics-applications-remotely -Y 'enables trusted X11 forwarding': https://serverfault.com/questions/273847/what-does-warning-untrusted-x11-forwarding-setup-failed-xauth-key-data-not-ge "Untrusted" in this context means you don't trust the connection. SSH will use additional security measures to try to make X11 forwarding safer. "Trusted" means you are entirely confident that no on on the remote host will get access to your Xauth data and use it to monitor your keystrokes for instance. This terminology actually confused me for years. I thought "Trusted" connections were safer. But actually it's an option you're supposed to use in situations where the connection IS trustworthy and you want to run stuff without extra security measures getting in your way. "Untrusted" is the one that makes it (somewhat) safer to deal with an untrusted remote host. An "Untrusted" connection attempts to limit what a black hat could do to you by engaging the X11 security extension and disabling other extensions that you (hopefully) don't need. This is probably why RandR is disabled with -X. Do you need to be able to rotate your X display from the remote host? It's also important to note that "untrusted" X11 forwarding turns off after a certain amount of time to keep you from accidentally leaving it on. New attempts to open windows will just fail after that. That bit me several times before I read enough docs to understand what was happening. My surmise is, not a Debian change, so much as a Portable OpenSSH change. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New behaviour under Devuan.
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 09:41:08PM +0100, Dave Turner wrote: [cut] > The bottle of wine isn't quite finished yet, but I am not trying to force > anyone to stop using 'su'. > > It IS a really bad idea though, rummage the interweb, somewhere in there is > a really good write up on why su is bad and sudo is good. > > And doas is even better. > and sup is even better, IMHO. But it doesn't look like you have added "IMHO" to that post :) The fact that someone on the web writes a blogpost saying that this is better than that does not make a whole truth. HND KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] And another new behaviour under Devuan.
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 05:21:17PM -0400, Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote: > My camera, cell phone and USB pendrives that used to mount without trouble > under Debian now give an error "Not authorized" and I have to launch a > Pcmanfm as root to access them. Lucky I learned this morning how to launch a > prog as root from the CLI.. > > Why did the configuration change ? > > How can I restore it ? > I think it might just be associations of your user to groups, e.g., plugdev. My2Cents KatolaZ -- [ ~.,_ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ - GLUGCT -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ "+. katolaz [at] freaknet.org --- katolaz [at] yahoo.it ] [ @) http://kalos.mine.nu --- Devuan GNU + Linux User ] [ @@) http://maths.qmul.ac.uk/~vnicosia -- GPG: 0B5F062F ] [ (@@@) Twitter: @KatolaZ - skype: katolaz -- github: KatolaZ ] signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] And another new behaviour under Devuan.
Am 2017-09-21 23:21, schrieb Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI: My camera, cell phone and USB pendrives that used to mount without trouble under Debian now give an error "Not authorized" and I have to launch a Pcmanfm as root to access them. I had similar issues some time ago and switched to spacefm with udevil. That solved it for me. Jochen ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] librezilla: [WAS: Has anyone tried waterfox?]
Quote: "if you build your own boards" You mean design my own computer motherboards?! Excuse me, but that is definitely the task of experts, not computer end users. Yes, I have knowledge about transistors, logic gates and some circuits employing them, but that is NOT enough. Furthermore, even if I were capable and had the resources to design and make my own motherboards, that would not guarantee me that the actual work horses, the CPU cores, were clean. Quote: "Not everybody uses (recent) x86 :p" I have a functional Pentium 4 (hyperthreading) but I do not use it. The reason is electricity consumption, noise, and above all, lack of performance. -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) If you cannot make abstructions about details you do not understand the concepts underlying them. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
