Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 09:44:35PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: [cut] > > What I'm about to say is barely germane to what you two both said, but > I'll say it anyway. > > I *never* felt comfortable in the Debian community, even before the > "systemd thing". Those people were mean. They were arrogant. I'm not > talking about the DDs, I'm talking of the rank and file. Never has any > single mailing list generated so many entries in my .procmailrc. They'd > spend days and days on threads putting each other down for stuff having > nothing to do with Debian or Linux. They'd white-glove critique the > questioning of newbies who just needed to get their computers running. > They'd flame the daylights out of you, and then just before their > signature they'd say "Cheers". Sy whaaat? It might be due to my natural attitude, which forbids me from spitting into the same plate I have been eating until 2 minutes ago, but I can't say that I ever felt so bad in the Debian community, until maybe 2013. Debian has made a massive contribution to the Free Software community, and we shouldn't forget that without Debian we would not be here. HND KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan on RPi2
On Mon, 16 May 2016, info at smallinnovations.nl wrote: > Icecast2 indeed behaves weird on De*an. With installation it asks to > configure source-password, relay-password and admin-password but afterwards > you have to edit them manually in /etc/icecast2/icecast.xml again. And you > have to enable icecast2 by manually editing /etc/default/icecast2. AFAIK Icecast2 has *never* been well packaged in Devuan. I use it heavily since more than 10 years and had always to compile it from some source. in most cases its advisable to chroot it too. Nowadays I recommend to compile and use the Icecast2 -kh branches. ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] JWM Package worth the effort? was About subject lines
On Mon, 16 May 2016 21:15:57 -0400 Steve Litt wrote: > But of course, if I were ever to set up a GUI computer that used 128MB > RAM, you'd better believe I'd use JWM. I use JWM for the guest account on my old 1GB RAM laptop and vote for a JWM based desktop environment in Devuan as the lightest possible and really straight forward *intuitive GUI* I know. If the "Devuan JWM Edition" is going to find broader support, I offer to take some responsibility for it. Florian ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists
On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 09:27:43PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > I sincerely wish the remedy of installing openrc and pinning systemd > > would work, but I'm sure it won't on the mid-long term. > > It obviously can't. The same Debian leadership who voted "no" (or was > it "we don't need no steenkin GR") on supporting multiple inits now > determines whether the OpenRC package is maintained or not. That's no > foundation on which to build init choice freedom. Thoroughly no! Please don't spread such misconceptions -- it's voicing such views that brings the most ammunition to the pro-systemd faction. Openrc is undermaintained in Debian not because of some cabal, but because of manpower issues: no one does real work on it currently, and its listed maintainers are hardly active. True, systemd-related changes (like, in init-system-helpers) do add to this burden, but that's not different from, say, burden on libpng using packages caused by the png12->png16 migration. This is a good part of maintainer's duties. You can't really blame the additional work for failures when even the basic work isn't done. I admit to be a part of the problem -- I should have stepped in to help myself. My excuses here are 1. not knowing much about init/rc systems, and 2. already having my hands in too many baskets, but I guess most of us can say something of this kind. End result is that there's no one to really maintain openrc. And sysvinit, for that matter. The "Debian leadership" has pretty little power: the DPL manages finances, public relations and delegations (in practice). The CTTE is hardly ever invoked, and their rulings on the systemd issue can't be considered evil: * "systemd shall be the default for jessie (and by extension stretch)" -- well, they did have to choose something. That we are unhappy with the choice doesn't mean they're wrong in making it. * "support for non-default init systems should be kept" -- isn't this what we want? The source of evil is the near-absolute power maintainers have on their packages. Other than the really unwieldy stick of complaining to CTTE, there's no real way to fix issues directly. For example: * the d-i team refused a well-tested patch fixing an obvious (as in, it doesn't work as documented) bug on debootstrap --exclude that would enable us to install sane inits without clumsy and bug-prone schemes that install systemd then remove it * the utopia team keeps breaking their packages in non-systemd scenarios (non-systemd Linux, kfreebsd). Both in jessie and current unstable you can't shutdown/reboot/suspend/hibernate from GUIs, etc. > By the way Jaromil, several days ago I told Rick the exact same stuff > you wrote here. If it were only systemd, and if the Debian DDs (boy do > I hate that phrase) were willing to admit their mistake, we wouldn't be > here. It's about Debian no longer being safe stewards of GNU/Linux. The DDs are a diverse group, there's no "their mistake". You may disagree with the actions of certain individuals, and thus the way package X is maintained, but other than a few cases (like d-i and utopia) this is entirely because of no one bothering to do the work to make alternatives viable. Like, xfce has currently no non-pulseaudio volume control not because their maintainers are evil but because no one wrote an ALSA backend when gstreamer dropped volume control APIs (considering them out of scope). All it takes to fix this is to actually write the code. Disclaimer: [ -z "$(gpg --keyring /usr/share/keyrings/debian-keyring.gpg \ --no-default-keyring --list-keys kilob...@angband.pl)" ] returns false. -- A tit a day keeps the vet away. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists
Am Mon, 16 May 2016 13:41:14 + schrieb dev : > Very well spoken. Debian leadership has demonstrated it's disinterest > in remaining "Free". There is another motive driving Debian > development now and Systemd will end up being the core of Debian. To > remove it will only mean uninstalling the entirety of the distro > itself. Please do not take my question wrong (probably i am missing something): If it's that way, how can devuan then rely on debian as for packages etc.? At least in a forseeable future ... ? I think i understand the nucleus of the problem of init choice but i am not a technician. And like many of you i found disgusting the manners they disputed about systemd or alternatives (it was horrible in arch and even more horrible in siduction. As i see it, the problem of the supporters of systemd is, structurally/logically, they cannot accept the idea of multiple init choices because it's contradictorial to the concept of systemd). Cheers. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists
Another example, intentionally not systemd related: If you use any of: backups, snapshots, nfs, etc, you'd want to have all per-user "no data loss on failure/deletion" files in a common dir, such as ~/.cache, to make it easy to exclude or bind-mount. Currently, such caches are strewn around hundreds random dirs all around, often buried deeply like ~/.mozilla/firefox/1hommji5.default/Cache/ (this one fortunately recently got fixed). And upstreams are often hostile to requests to move those, for a variety of reasons. I proposed to make cache under ~/.cache an official policy, but met with negative popular response (just on IRC, to judge whether to go forward). Turns out maintainers don't want to diverge from upstreams, especially when it'd be burden of carrying and maintaining a patch. So what's the proper response? Crying mommy to the CTTE? Axel Beckert instead created "unburden-home-dir", a package to move/symlink such directories to a place of your choice, including reapplying such symlinks on every login (in case they get lost), and even undoing the changes. Thus: while a hostile maintainer can make it harder for you, all it takes to create a workaround is some will and effort. Meow! -- A tit a day keeps the vet away. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists
On Tue, 17 May 2016, emnin...@riseup.net wrote: > Am Mon, 16 May 2016 13:41:14 + > schrieb dev : > > > Very well spoken. Debian leadership has demonstrated it's disinterest > > in remaining "Free". There is another motive driving Debian > > development now and Systemd will end up being the core of Debian. To > > remove it will only mean uninstalling the entirety of the distro > > itself. > > Please do not take my question wrong (probably i am missing something): > If it's that way, how can devuan then rely on debian as for packages > etc.? At least in a forseeable future ... ? we really are a *fork*. We are going to slowly but steadily detach ourselves from Debian, starting from the things they break. We are still weak now on the planning, considering Debian can make priorities for us. However in future we'll focus more on Devuan as a *base* distro, trying to develop a much better attitude towards upstream and downstream. Applying some lessons learned in Debian's governance, we shall see a lot of improvement on these regards. ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists
On Tue, 17 May 2016, Adam Borowski wrote: > On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 09:27:43PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > > I sincerely wish the remedy of installing openrc and pinning > > > systemd would work, but I'm sure it won't on the mid-long term. > > It obviously can't. The same Debian leadership who voted "no" (or > > was it "we don't need no steenkin GR") on supporting multiple > > inits now determines whether the OpenRC package is maintained or > > not. That's no foundation on which to build init choice freedom. [...] > Openrc is undermaintained in Debian not because of some cabal, but > because of manpower issues: no one does real work on it currently, > and its listed maintainers are hardly active. I agree. Most of Debian is made by volunteers whose reliability will be limited on the long-term. They are often students on their path to find a job and disappear from Debian, or professionals on their way to switch to OSX as soon as they get a laptop for free at work. I'm sincerely not trying to offend anyone. Among those students and professionals are also people I respect and believe have good reasons to move on, lacking time to attend Debian, which is not slavery nor is paid work. But how long can it go that way? and can such a project withstand an avalanche like systemd? as a matter of fact, I think it didn't. > The "Debian leadership" has pretty little power: the DPL manages > finances, public relations and delegations (in practice). The CTTE > is hardly ever invoked, and their rulings on the systemd issue can't > be considered evil: first and foremost: a leader must take care of *everyone*, not just the majority. and if the majority and the minority split 50%/50% as they did, should mediate and make sure noone gets hurt, ultimately also that the project doesn't gets hurt. a leader shall love everyone, without condition, even his/her own enemies, or at least try to understand them and well. This is exactly the opposite that the Debian elected leaders have done in the past years. The reasons why these bullies did what they did are too complex and perhaps even too personal to debate here. The term leader may even disgust some of us, me included. Because to the contrary of how it is most often practiced, leadership is not made for the glory of elected individuals. true leaders should give all their energies in such a situation to mediate, keep together the community. In the systemd row a true leader would have made sure there was no split and not even a vote: if the community is split so much then its up to the leader to find a third way, finally use that power in a really useful way, instead of shopping around a talking head for the press. > The source of evil is the near-absolute power maintainers have on > their packages. Other than the really unwieldy stick of complaining > to CTTE, there's no real way to fix issues directly. I absolutely agree to this analysis. We need to make sure this doesn't happens again in Devuan. I've been trapped myself in more than one ridicolous situations, as upstream developer. > The DDs are a diverse group, there's no "their mistake". This is also true. Some DDs are also part of our community at Dyne.org and may disagree both ways. There is a lot of differentiation. And despite some people like to think of Debian as a Cathedral, it is not. ciao -- Denis Roio aka Jaromil http://Dyne.org think &do tank CTO and co-founder free/open source developers 加密 6113 D89C A825 C5CE DD02 C872 73B3 5DA5 4ACB 7D10 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] JWM Package worth the effort? was About subject lines
Am Tue, 17 May 2016 12:00:02 + schrieb Florian Zieboll : > I use JWM for the guest account on my old 1GB RAM laptop and vote for > a JWM based desktop environment in Devuan as the lightest possible and > really straight forward *intuitive GUI* I know. If the "Devuan JWM > Edition" is going to find broader support, I offer to take some > responsibility for it. > > Florian Hi. In that case you could count on me as an "assistant" (for what i am able to do, linuxwise ..., obvously ;) ). Cheers. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists
emnin...@riseup.net wrote: > Please do not take my question wrong (probably i am missing something): > If it's that way, how can devuan then rely on debian as for packages > etc.? At least in a forseeable future ... ? The thing is that Debian is already there, pretty well complete, and the majority of packages don't need fixing. I don't know how well you've followed some of the threads (and web pages linked to), but many of the problems are of the form : package A depends on package B, package B depends on package C, package C depends on ..., and package X depends on systemd - often in a very minor way. So indirectly Package A depends on SystemD, even though you might not be wanting to use any features of Package X that caused the dependency in the first place. In this case, it's a matter of looking at Package X and determining what (if anything) it needs SystemD for and either removing the dependency or figuring out a way of providing the needed functions without using SystemD. Thus un-corrupting Package X allow Package A to be installed without modification. Of course, packages A, B, C etc may not be single packages, they might be whole suites of (say) desktop software - so fixing a small number of packages preventing the desktop environment installing could open up hundreds of packages with no direct dependency - and which don't need any "fixing" to be used. As long as Devuan can survive the short term, over time it'll deviate more and more from Debian, and rely less and less on Debian packages. But in the short and medium term, it can use all those packages that are already there, already packaged, and that saves a lot of effort for what is currently a very small team with limited infrastructure. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists
On Tue, 17 May 2016 09:15:08 +0100 KatolaZ wrote: > On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 09:44:35PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: [snip Steve Litt's anti-Debian community rant] > It might be due to my natural attitude, which forbids me from spitting > into the same plate I have been eating until 2 minutes ago, but I > can't say that I ever felt so bad in the Debian community, until maybe > 2013. The preceding sentence is consistent with my experience. I didn't start using Debian until February 2014. > > Debian has made a massive contribution to the Free Software community, > and we shouldn't forget that without Debian we would not be here. Once upon a time, Debian was the guarantor that big money wouldn't kidnap GNU/Linux. I wrote about that, last century: http://troubleshooters.com/tpromag/199906/_debian.htm Debian did a fine job of guaranteeing the freeness of GNU/Linux. I think that mantle has been passed to Devuan. SteveT Steve Litt May 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists
On Tue, 17 May 2016 14:33:03 +0200 Jaromil wrote: > On Tue, 17 May 2016, Adam Borowski wrote: > > > On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 09:27:43PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > > > > I sincerely wish the remedy of installing openrc and pinning > > > > systemd would work, but I'm sure it won't on the mid-long > > > > term. > > > It obviously can't. The same Debian leadership who voted "no" (or > > > was it "we don't need no steenkin GR") on supporting multiple > > > inits now determines whether the OpenRC package is maintained or > > > not. That's no foundation on which to build init choice freedom. > > [...] > > > Openrc is undermaintained in Debian not because of some cabal, but > > because of manpower issues: no one does real work on it currently, > > and its listed maintainers are hardly active. > > I agree. Most of Debian is made by volunteers whose reliability will > be limited on the long-term. They are often students on their path to > find a job and disappear from Debian, or professionals on their way to > switch to OSX as soon as they get a laptop for free at work. Point of clarification on what I said: I had no idea OpenRC was currently undermaintained by Debian. I was simply stating my opinion, basically, that I don't *trust* Debian to continue offering OpenRC, or offering a working OpenRC. Rick apparently trusts the Debian project. Jaromil and I, not so much. I guess that's the bottom line for me. Rightly or wrongly, I don't trust the motivations and future actions of the Debian project, so I would never have my business depend upon Debian. SteveT Steve Litt May 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists
On Tue, 17 May 2016 14:11:49 +0200 Jaromil wrote: > On Tue, 17 May 2016, emnin...@riseup.net wrote: > > > Am Mon, 16 May 2016 13:41:14 + > > schrieb dev : > > Please do not take my question wrong (probably i am missing > > something): If it's that way, how can devuan then rely on debian as > > for packages etc.? At least in a forseeable future ... ? > > we really are a *fork*. We are going to slowly but steadily detach > ourselves from Debian, starting from the things they break. This is good information. I didn't know the ultimate goal was to detach, and I'm glad to hear that it is. And I applaud you for taking it slowly and viewing it as a process, not an action. SteveT Steve Litt May 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] JWM Package worth the effort? was About subject lines
On Tue, 17 May 2016 14:34:14 +0200 wrote: > Am Tue, 17 May 2016 12:00:02 + > schrieb Florian Zieboll : > > > I use JWM for the guest account on my old 1GB RAM laptop and vote > > for a JWM based desktop environment in Devuan as the lightest > > possible and really straight forward *intuitive GUI* I know. If the > > "Devuan JWM Edition" is going to find broader support, I offer to > > take some responsibility for it. > > > > Florian > > Hi. In that case you could count on me as an "assistant" (for what i > am able to do, linuxwise ..., obvously ;) ). > > Cheers. Nice :) So let's see if there's broader support for this idea. f. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Devuan Minimal Live Images -- new version
Dear Devuaners, thanks to your comments and suggestions, I was able to strip down substantially the Unofficial Devuan Minimal Live images. We now can boot the amd64 version in 96 MB of RAM and the i386 version in 80 MB. If we consider that this is still a bunch of standard Devuan packages, with standard kernel and libc and everything, I believe it is a nice result. The new images can be downloaded here: http://devuan.kalos.mine.nu and are those marked as "DEVELOPMENT BRANCH". I have also considered the wishes expressed by some of you, and I have added a few more packages. The most notable inclusion is the support for Braille terminals (brltty) and for speech synthesis (espeak/espeakup + alsa), which might make this minimal live Devuan as a viable option for blind users. Thanks a lot to Gregory Nowak for the suggestions about accessibility. There are also fbi, fbterm, mc, minicom, and some more little utilities, but most of them are untested, so please try to break them and report back :) Despite the new additions, which indeed required a lot of space, the usage of xz for the squashfs allowed to maintain the footprint around 250 MB. I am convinced that we can still trim more fat, though. Please feel free to report comments, suggestions, and things to be added to the wishlist through the gitlab page of the project: https://git.devuan.org/KatolaZ/devuan-live-minimal You will also find there the scripts I have used to create the images, plus some documentation, which is quite minimal at the moment. HH KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists
On 05/17/2016 06:45 AM, emnin...@riseup.net wrote: Please do not take my question wrong (probably i am missing something): If it's that way, how can devuan then rely on debian as for packages etc.? At least in a forseeable future ... ? Good question. Devuan and Debian are growing apart (as Jaromil alludes to in a newer message) and that means Devuan will, at some point, have to cut the tethers from Debian (of course, this is the normal and expected path of any fork). It is annonying that after 25 years the Linux community needs to start over. Fortunately some very smart people established the GNU GPL very early on (almost like Stallman saw this coming) and this has prevented anyone from purchasing decades of charitable work and locking it away with a key. Devuan, and a handful of other distros, are the only effort to keep the historic Linux culture alive. Redhat, Debian, SuSE are not, and cannot do it without turning around their monetary/power interests. They also cannot be relied on to be "free and open" so at any time, drastic things could change which intentionally affect any upstream (Devuan) software. I think i understand the nucleus of the problem of init choice but i am not a technician. And like many of you i found disgusting the manners they disputed about systemd or alternatives (it was horrible in arch and even more horrible in siduction. As i see it, the problem of the supporters of systemd is, structurally/logically, they cannot accept the idea of multiple init choices because it's contradictorial to the concept of systemd). SystemD support has some bright people with intentions which run completely counter to the Linux culture of openness. I think they have accepted what they are doing but what they are doing is the antitheses of FOSS in every which way. As a whole, it's not so much about init, but it starts with init. Devuan is the beginning of a big solution to a large problem. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists
Adam Borowski wrote: > ...the word "pirate", > originally a bandit and murderer (and in places like Somalia, still current!) > yet nowadays its more widespread meaning is "culture spreading activist"[1] > (not just copyright, also, eg, radio), a term of pride for many of us. However, it is worth noting that among historical pirates, governance may have been more egalitarian than, for example, on ships of the East India Company. > [1]. The MAFIAA[2] defines that differently. > [2]. And here, we're close to the original meaning. -- Joel Roth ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] about fglrx (especially to Irrwahn)
Hi. Indeed upgrading my system in some way i lost fglrx, and now, when i try to reinstall it from the repositories i'm getting that there is no fglrx driver. When i reactivate the Jessie repositories, the driver is there but when i try to install it, synaptic or apt-get lament that fglrx depends on xorg-video-abi- 19 (or 18 or 17 ...) but that they are not to be installed. Now, xorg-video-abi should be there with xorg-core which is installed. I'd like to solve this problem without having to do a downgrade (= a complete reinstall of Jessie) ... ? The overheating of this samsung (with the free ati driver) is a serious problem, making it not really useable ... May be there is another way to reduce overheating other than the non-free catalyst driver? Thanks a lot in advance! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] about fglrx (especially to Irrwahn)
On Tue, 17 May 2016 21:37:13 +0200, Emninger wrote: > Hi. Indeed upgrading my system in some way i lost fglrx, and now, when > i try to reinstall it from the repositories i'm getting that there is > no fglrx driver. When i reactivate the Jessie repositories, the driver > is there but when i try to install it, synaptic or apt-get lament that > fglrx depends on xorg-video-abi- 19 (or 18 or 17 ...) but that they are > not to be installed. Now, xorg-video-abi should be there with xorg-core > which is installed. > > I'd like to solve this problem without having to do a downgrade (= a > complete reinstall of Jessie) ... ? The overheating of this samsung > (with the free ati driver) is a serious problem, making it not really > useable ... May be there is another way to reduce overheating other > than the non-free catalyst driver? Hi Emninger, that's exactly the problem with fglrx: Until there is a version compatible with video-abi 20 or up, if you want to have it in Ascii, you need xorg-video-abi < 20. The virtual package xorg-video-abi 18 is provided by xserver- xorg-core version 1.16 from Jessie (currently that's 2:1.16.4-1, to be precise). So you'd have to downgrade that package, and in consequence downgrade xorg (and all of it's companions) to version 1:7.7+7. I had to do just that, and even using aptitude, which allows to navigate the package tree somewhat comfortably, it was a tedious task. Plus, one has to make sure not to upgrade xorg to a "wrong" version at a later time. For the record: I never, ever do an apt-get upgrade - IMNSHO it does not provide enough fine grained control over what exactly is going to happen to your system, and it bit me very badly in the past. Instead I always check with aptitude first what's going to be upgraded, and only let it do it's job when I'm sufficiently confident it's going to be alright. As a protective measure against my own inaptitude (pun not intended), I pinned all the xorg* packages to their respective Jessie versions, so I would not accidentally upgrade to a version that would break fglrx. I know this is all far from ideal, but the free ATI driver never worked satisfactory on my desktop machine. Which is a real pity! HTH, at least a bit. Regards Urban ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] devuan-minimal brief review notes
@KatolaZ (and everyone else): I just took the 2016-05-17 iteration of devuan-minimal for a short spin, and here are my notes. In summary, it seems to be a nicely prepared iso, with features that I've found overlooked in much larger distros that make attempts to be minimal. Nice work! devuan-minimal.org-emacs -*- mode: org; mode:visual-line; -*- #+TITLE: devuan-minimal.org-emacs * devuan-minimal.org-emacs ** 2016-05-17 *** qemu on E15 + default boot option failed + frame buffer related. Message is: #+BEGIN_SRC fb: switching to bochsdrmfb from simple #+END_SRC + Question: so how is it so many others claim success? + when invoking qemu with an additional option '-vga vmware', the frame buffer boot option succeeds, and the frame buffer feature works, as described below. + successful boot with nofb option *** usb on E14 + default boots to login + boot process does not auto-recognize screen + prompts for resolution selection, with a timeout. + selected option 'y' + possible solution: in file /etc/default/grub, comment out parameter 'GRUB_GFX_MODE'. That should make grub default to 'auto'. However, I'm not really certain if that's necessary, because I don't see a /boot/grub/grub.cfg, so it seems that the iso is booting using isolinux. (true?/false?) + libcap2-bin not installed + required to query or set capabilities. + fbterm requires the following to be performed ONCE. #+BEGIN_SRC sudo setcap 'cap_sys_tty_config+ep' /usr/bin/fbterm sudo chmod u+s /usr/bin/fbterm #+END_SRC + for a livecd environment, neither command is easily possible, because the root filesystem is not writable. (not tested) + solution #1: perform the commands before burning the iso + solution #2: mount an aufs partition over the root partition and apply the changes on the overlay. (not tested) + frame buffer works! + fbi renders images! #+BEGIN_SRC fbi /usr/share/doc/syslinux-common/examples/syslinux_splash.jpg #+END_SRC + AND it's a nice picture ... + fbgs render pdfs! + tip: Review the options on the man page before use. By default, the program pre-renders the entire document, which can take a while, and the default resolution isn't low so, for example, if you have a large document and know you are interested in only pages 250-260: #+BEGIN_SRC fbgs -fp 250 -lp 260 -r 300 your-file.pdf #+END_SRC + thanks for the following features, which I have found that other 'minimal' distros skimp on: + man pages + locate, with updatedb pre-run + grub + why is there no /boot/grub/grub.cfg? + missing + everyone will have something to chime in here about, I would prefer to be able to list things to remove. + ncdu - ncurses answer to 'baobab', with more features and without gnome-bloat. + htop - not *really* necessary, since 'top' is installed. -- hkp://keys.gnupg.net CA45 09B5 5351 7C11 A9D1 7286 0036 9E45 1595 8BC0 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
