Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd

[aitor_czr]

On 04/22/2016 11:17 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:

In my opinion there's no magic line where things on one side are window
>managers and things on the other side are desktop environments. I think
>we can all agree that Unity, KDE and Gnome are desktop environments,
>and dwm and i3 are window managers, but what's Xfce? What's LXDE?
>What's Openbox?
>
>I think of de/wm as a spectrum, not a 1/0.


I agree with you, there is not a borderline.

  Aitor.
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Re: [DNG] M$ Linux-frendly

[Didier Kryn]

Le 23/04/2016 03:16, Simon Walter a écrit :

On 04/23/2016 01:58 AM, Steve Litt wrote:

On Fri, 22 Apr 2016 18:18:56 +0200
Didier Kryn  wrote:


Interesting discussion on Microsoft involvement with Linux:
http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/Hating-Microsoft 



  I cite a sentence:
   "More recently, a minority have muttered that Systemd is an attempt
by Red Hat to monopolize the Linux operating system."

  I wonder who's that minority...

This might be a good time to remember the 2006 Redhat Smoking Gun
Interview:

http://asay.blogspot.ru/2006/10/interview-with-red-hat-cto-brian.html

===
Red Hat's model works because of the complexity of the technology we
work with. An operating platform has a lot of moving parts, and
customers are willing to pay to be insulated from that complexity.

I don't think you can take one finite element - like Apache - and make
a business out of it [using our model]. You need product complexity.
===

Signed, sealed, delivered, they're busted. We aren't "muttering" that
it's a monopolization technique, that's a fact for anyone willing to do
a little research.



Very nice interview. I especially like the lie at the end:

"We create the best platform on which applications can run and compete 
with each other. That's our business." 


This is the problem with this interview. The part underlined by 
Steve fits perfectly with the story of systemd, but it is slightly 
weakened because the whole interview is essentially spam: sugar for 
customers and engineers, autosatisfaction and self promotion by the CTO, 
and... lies, as you point.


Didier

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Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd

[Simon Walter]

On 04/23/2016 04:20 PM, aitor_czr wrote:


On 04/22/2016 11:17 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:

In my opinion there's no magic line where things on one side are window
>managers and things on the other side are desktop environments. I think
>we can all agree that Unity, KDE and Gnome are desktop environments,
>and dwm and i3 are window managers, but what's Xfce? What's LXDE?
>What's Openbox?
>
>I think of de/wm as a spectrum, not a 1/0.


I agree with you, there is not a borderline.


It doesn't matter how much you agree on an opinion. That will not make 
it fact. There is a technical difference between the two. Just look up 
the definition of "window manager" and "desktop environment" on any 
techsite/dictionary/encyclopedia. Unless you are trying to sound 
ignorant, it would make sense to use the correct terminology.

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[DNG] list of live-cds and distros based on Devuan

[Jaromil]

dear d'ngers

is there anyone here that can pack together quickly a list of current
distributions and livecds based on Devuan?

I'm just trying out this http://www.exegnulinux.net/downloads/jessie/
(thanks Dave) and then of course Refracta
https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/testing/ anything else?

thanks
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Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd

[KatolaZ]

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 09:20:21AM +0200, aitor_czr wrote:
> 
> On 04/22/2016 11:17 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:
> >In my opinion there's no magic line where things on one side are window
> >>managers and things on the other side are desktop environments. I think
> >>we can all agree that Unity, KDE and Gnome are desktop environments,
> >>and dwm and i3 are window managers, but what's Xfce? What's LXDE?
> >>What's Openbox?
> >>
> >>I think of de/wm as a spectrum, not a 1/0.
> 
> I agree with you, there is not a borderline.
> 
>   Aitor.

I don't know how I ended up appearing as the poster of that message,
since I didn't say anything like that :) It's just the result of a
very bad quoting exercise.

I have posted only one reply in this thread, in which I asked whether
there was anything besides WMaker and xmonad, with a trailing smile :)

Guys please quote appropriately, or don't quote at all :D

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
[ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
[ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
[ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
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Re: [DNG] list of live-cds and distros based on Devuan

[Lars Noodén]

On 04/23/2016 11:29 AM, Jaromil wrote:

> is there anyone here that can pack together quickly a list of current
> distributions and livecds based on Devuan?

They're all lumped together here:

https://distrowatch.com/search.php?basedon=Debian

Regards,
Lars
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Re: [DNG] list of live-cds and distros based on Devuan

[Lars Noodén]

On 04/23/2016 11:39 AM, Lars Noodén wrote:
> On 04/23/2016 11:29 AM, Jaromil wrote:
> 
>> is there anyone here that can pack together quickly a list of current
>> distributions and livecds based on Devuan?
> 
> They're all lumped together here:
> 
> https://distrowatch.com/search.php?basedon=Debian

Sorry.  I misread the word "potentially" in there when it wasn't.

Regards,
Lars

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Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd

[Trond Arild Ydersbond]

Jaromil :

>> BTW, there is a new devuan-based exegnulinux ISO with 
>> TDE:http://www.exegnulinux.net/

>just tested with qemu, it doesn't boots (error -28 on /bin/sh execution)

>I suspect they use Debian's live-cd scripts? that may be the problem
>we had to fork that too, Frits did
>https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/live-build
>(all welcome to contribute a README for this)



That's great! This may be very useful for several live distros.

Hope I can contribute - but after 20 minutes, I have still not got through 
signing in at git.devuan.org...

Trond
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Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd

[Jaromil]

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016, Trond Arild Ydersbond wrote:

> Hope I can contribute - but after 20 minutes, I have still not got through 
> signing in at git.devuan.org...

yes, its blocked.

for some reason we are experiencing an outage on gitlab.

the load is intense during these days so please keep patience and come back to 
it later.

ciao


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Re: [DNG] list of live-cds and distros based on Devuan

[Marlon Nunes]

https://livecdlist.com

Not devuan specific but they have a big list there ...

On 2016-04-23 05:29, Jaromil wrote:

dear d'ngers

is there anyone here that can pack together quickly a list of current
distributions and livecds based on Devuan?

I'm just trying out this http://www.exegnulinux.net/downloads/jessie/
(thanks Dave) and then of course Refracta
https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/testing/ anything else?

thanks
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Re: [DNG] list of live-cds and distros based on Devuan

[dev1fanboy]

I have a (probably not complete) list somewhere in my wiki pages. Off the top 
of my head refracta, exe gnu/linux and gnuinos (libre spin). 

Cheers,

chillfan

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 9:29 AM, Jaromil  wrote:
> dear d'ngers
> 
> is there anyone here that can pack together quickly a list of current
> distributions and livecds based on Devuan?
> 
> I'm just trying out this http://www.exegnulinux.net/downloads/jessie/
> (thanks Dave) and then of course Refracta
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/testing/ anything else?
> 
> thanks
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Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd

[dev1fanboy]

In devuan xfce and lxde. Mate is looking close to not having systemd too.

Cheers,

chillfan

On Thursday, April 21, 2016 6:57 PM, Rob van der Putten  wrote:
> Hi there
> 
> 
> Which desktops work without systemd?
> A list would be nice.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Rob
> 
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Re: [DNG] list of live-cds and distros based on Devuan

[dev1fanboy]

Forgot to add, there were some live builds (I think) aimed at helping people 
make their own live cd's. If there's any more now I could add them to that list.

Cheers,

chillfan

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 10:43 AM, dev1fanboy  
wrote:
> I have a (probably not complete) list somewhere in my wiki pages. Off the
> top of my head refracta, exe gnu/linux and gnuinos (libre spin).
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> chillfan
> 
> On Saturday, April 23, 2016 9:29 AM, Jaromil  wrote:
>> dear d'ngers
>>
>> is there anyone here that can pack together quickly a list of current
>> distributions and livecds based on Devuan?
>>
>> I'm just trying out this http://www.exegnulinux.net/downloads/jessie/
>> (thanks Dave) and then of course Refracta
>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/testing/ anything else?
>>
>> thanks
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Re: [DNG] list of live-cds and distros based on Devuan

[David Hare]

Both Exe GNU/Linux and Refracta have the "refractasnapshot" utility,
which creates a custom live image.

I don't know if antiX is actually Devuan-based but recent ones are
Jessie without systemd and with eudev.

David

On 23 April 2016 at 10:49, dev1fanboy  wrote:
> Forgot to add, there were some live builds (I think) aimed at helping people 
> make their own live cd's. If there's any more now I could add them to that 
> list.
>
> Cheers,
>
> chillfan
>
> On Saturday, April 23, 2016 10:43 AM, dev1fanboy  
> wrote:
>> I have a (probably not complete) list somewhere in my wiki pages. Off the
>> top of my head refracta, exe gnu/linux and gnuinos (libre spin).
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> chillfan
>>
>> On Saturday, April 23, 2016 9:29 AM, Jaromil  wrote:
>>> dear d'ngers
>>>
>>> is there anyone here that can pack together quickly a list of current
>>> distributions and livecds based on Devuan?
>>>
>>> I'm just trying out this http://www.exegnulinux.net/downloads/jessie/
>>> (thanks Dave) and then of course Refracta
>>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/testing/ anything else?
>>>
>>> thanks
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[DNG] Fwd: mpv from devuan.org/merged is broken

[David Hare]

Purging the -dmo packages and replacing with current repo ones,
without something going horribly wrong, was not simple. Now sorted
like this:

# get list of installed "-dmo" packages
dpkg -l|grep "\-dmo"|grep "^ii"|awk '{print $2}'|sed 's/:.*//'g >/tmp/dmo

# get list of which were automatically installed
for i in $(cat /tmp/dmo); do apt-mark showauto $i >> /tmp/autoinstalled; done

# There will be a lot removed! *** Copy the terminal's output to a
text file for reference
# You will be prompted. Maybe miss out what looks really bad and run
the next line a few times more.

# Now reinstall manually what got removed, that you want restored.
Maybe not lib*, they will be mostly automatic..

# finally
for i in $(cat /tmp/autoinstalled); do apt-mark auto $i; done

# review carefully then deal with them manually:
apt-get autoremove

That's just what I did, not advice to anyone. If there is a better
solution than the above, please post it.

On 21 April 2016 at 19:12, Noel Torres  wrote:
> David Hare  escribió:
>
>> What is, or will be, official Devuan policy on this?
>
>
> This is one of the points in which my idea of "eggs" would help, as I
> imagine it.
>
> What I do not know is if it is doable.
>
> Regards
> er Envite
>
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[DNG] mpv from devuan.org/merged is broken

[David Hare]

Thanks Daniel, the dmo packages seem no longer in the repo. I want to
to clean it all up and reinstall to current versions but that means
"downgrade". This gets quite complex as some depend on others:

:/# dpkg -l|grep "\-dmo"|grep "^ii"|awk '{print $2 "\t\t" $3}'
ffmpeg  10:2.6.5-dmo1
lame1:3.99.5-dmo4
libaacplus2:amd64   2.0.2-dmo2
libavcodec56:amd64  10:2.6.5-dmo1
libavdevice56:amd64 10:2.6.5-dmo1
libavfilter5:amd64  10:2.6.5-dmo1
libavformat56:amd64 10:2.6.5-dmo1
libavresample2:amd6410:2.6.5-dmo1
libavutil54:amd64   10:2.6.5-dmo1
libbluray1:amd642:0.7.0-dmo1
libdca0:amd64   0.0.5-dmo2
libdvdcss2:amd641.3.0-dmo1
libfaac0:amd64  1:1.28-dmo3
libfame-0.9-1:amd64 0.9.1-dmo1
libfdk-aac1:amd64   1:0.1.4-dmo1
libgegl-0.2-0:amd64 1:0.2.0-dmo8
libmp3lame0:amd64   1:3.99.5-dmo4
libmp4v2-2:amd642:2.0.0-dmo2
libpostproc53:amd64 10:2.6.5-dmo1
librtmp1:amd64  2:2.4~20150315.gita107cef9b-dmo1
libswresample1:amd6410:2.6.5-dmo1
libswscale3:amd64   10:2.6.5-dmo1
libutvideo15:amd64  15.1.0-dmo2
libvamp-hostsdk3:amd64  1:2.5-dmo6
libvidstab1.0   2:0.98b-dmo1
libx264-146:amd64   3:0.146.2538+git121396c-dmo1
libx265-51:amd641.6-dmo1
libxine21:1.2.6-dmo6
libxine2-bin:amd64  1:1.2.6-dmo6
libxine2-ffmpeg:amd64   1:1.2.6-dmo6
libxine2-misc-plugins:amd64 1:1.2.6-dmo6
libxine2-plugins1:1.2.6-dmo6
libxine2-x:amd641:1.2.6-dmo6
libxvidcore4:amd64  3:1.3.3-dmo1
mplayer21:2.0~git20130903-dmo7
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Re: [DNG] mpv from devuan.org/merged is broken

[David Hare]

Purging the -dmo packages and replacing with current repo ones,
without something going horribly wrong, was not simple. Now sorted
like this:

# get list of installed "-dmo" packages
dpkg -l|grep "\-dmo"|grep "^ii"|awk '{print $2}'|sed 's/:.*//'g >/tmp/dmo

# get list of which were automatically installed
for i in $(cat /tmp/dmo); do apt-mark showauto $i >> /tmp/autoinstalled; done

# There will be a lot removed! *** Copy the terminal's output to a
text file for reference
# You will be prompted. Maybe miss out what looks really bad and run
the next line a few times more.

# Now reinstall manually what got removed, that you want restored.
Maybe not lib*, they will be mostly automatic..

# finally
for i in $(cat /tmp/autoinstalled); do apt-mark auto $i; done

# review carefully then deal with them manually:
apt-get autoremove

That's just what I did, not advice to anyone. If there is a better
solution than the above, please post it.

On 23 April 2016 at 11:52, David Hare  wrote:
> Thanks Daniel, the dmo packages seem no longer in the repo. I want to
> to clean it all up and reinstall to current versions but that means
> "downgrade". This gets quite complex as some depend on others:
>
> :/# dpkg -l|grep "\-dmo"|grep "^ii"|awk '{print $2 "\t\t" $3}'
> ffmpeg  10:2.6.5-dmo1
> lame1:3.99.5-dmo4
> libaacplus2:amd64   2.0.2-dmo2
> libavcodec56:amd64  10:2.6.5-dmo1
> libavdevice56:amd64 10:2.6.5-dmo1
> libavfilter5:amd64  10:2.6.5-dmo1
> libavformat56:amd64 10:2.6.5-dmo1
> libavresample2:amd6410:2.6.5-dmo1
> libavutil54:amd64   10:2.6.5-dmo1
> libbluray1:amd642:0.7.0-dmo1
> libdca0:amd64   0.0.5-dmo2
> libdvdcss2:amd641.3.0-dmo1
> libfaac0:amd64  1:1.28-dmo3
> libfame-0.9-1:amd64 0.9.1-dmo1
> libfdk-aac1:amd64   1:0.1.4-dmo1
> libgegl-0.2-0:amd64 1:0.2.0-dmo8
> libmp3lame0:amd64   1:3.99.5-dmo4
> libmp4v2-2:amd642:2.0.0-dmo2
> libpostproc53:amd64 10:2.6.5-dmo1
> librtmp1:amd64  2:2.4~20150315.gita107cef9b-dmo1
> libswresample1:amd6410:2.6.5-dmo1
> libswscale3:amd64   10:2.6.5-dmo1
> libutvideo15:amd64  15.1.0-dmo2
> libvamp-hostsdk3:amd64  1:2.5-dmo6
> libvidstab1.0   2:0.98b-dmo1
> libx264-146:amd64   3:0.146.2538+git121396c-dmo1
> libx265-51:amd641.6-dmo1
> libxine21:1.2.6-dmo6
> libxine2-bin:amd64  1:1.2.6-dmo6
> libxine2-ffmpeg:amd64   1:1.2.6-dmo6
> libxine2-misc-plugins:amd64 1:1.2.6-dmo6
> libxine2-plugins1:1.2.6-dmo6
> libxine2-x:amd641:1.2.6-dmo6
> libxvidcore4:amd64  3:1.3.3-dmo1
> mplayer21:2.0~git20130903-dmo7
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Re: [DNG] list of live-cds and distros based on Devuan

[dev1fanboy]

There was another one someone linked me to before: 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/linnix/files/

https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/wikis/devuan-based was 
the list I had so far.

I think antix had one of their earlier releases using devuan debootstrap but 
changed it later on. 

Cheers,

chillfan

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 11:37 AM, David Hare  wrote:
> Both Exe GNU/Linux and Refracta have the "refractasnapshot" utility,
> which creates a custom live image.
> 
> I don't know if antiX is actually Devuan-based but recent ones are
> Jessie without systemd and with eudev.
> 
> David
> 
> On 23 April 2016 at 10:49, dev1fanboy  wrote:
>> Forgot to add, there were some live builds (I think) aimed at helping
>> people make their own live cd's. If there's any more now I could add
>> them to that list.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> chillfan
>>
>> On Saturday, April 23, 2016 10:43 AM, dev1fanboy
>>  wrote:
>>> I have a (probably not complete) list somewhere in my wiki pages. Off
>>> the
>>> top of my head refracta, exe gnu/linux and gnuinos (libre spin).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> chillfan
>>>
>>> On Saturday, April 23, 2016 9:29 AM, Jaromil  wrote:
 dear d'ngers

 is there anyone here that can pack together quickly a list of current
 distributions and livecds based on Devuan?

 I'm just trying out this http://www.exegnulinux.net/downloads/jessie/
 (thanks Dave) and then of course Refracta
 https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/testing/ anything
 else?

 thanks
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[DNG] debootstrap requires key

[Haines Brown]

This has come up before, but I still don't know the basic
procedure. I've installed debootstrap on a new disk and run:

  # debootstrap --arch amd64 jessie /mnt/debinst   \
  https://packages.devuan.org/devuan

  I: Retrieving Release
  I: Retrieving Release.gpg
  I: Checking Release signature
  E: Release signed by unknown key (key id 94532124541922FB)

No change when I downloaded and ran

  # dpkg -i devuan-keyring_2015.05.05_all.deb

  Do I have the right keyring? Was the alpha4 release date
  c. 2015.05.05?  

In simple step by step terms, what do I do? 
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Re: [DNG] list of live-cds and distros based on Devuan

[Jaromil]

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016, dev1fanboy wrote:

> https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/wikis/devuan-based
> was the list I had so far.

you have put together a useful collection of information on your
wiki. thanks! and your guide to minimalism is still the best one
around :^) I'll add a link to all this on the new webpages.


ciao

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Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd

[aitor_czr]

On 04/23/2016 10:36 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:

>On 04/22/2016 11:17 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:

> >In my opinion there's no magic line where things on one side are window

> >>managers and things on the other side are desktop environments. I think
> >>we can all agree that Unity, KDE and Gnome are desktop environments,
> >>and dwm and i3 are window managers, but what's Xfce? What's LXDE?
> >>What's Openbox?
> >>
> >>I think of de/wm as a spectrum, not a 1/0.

>
>I agree with you, there is not a borderline.
>
>   Aitor.

I don't know how I ended up appearing as the poster of that message,
since I didn't say anything like that:)  It's just the result of a
very bad quoting exercise.

I have posted only one reply in this thread, in which I asked whether
there was anything besides WMaker and xmonad, with a trailing smile:)

Guys please quote appropriately, or don't quote at all :D

HND

KatolaZ


Ok, i will the subject of the thread to:

" I desagree (was i agree) "

This will be related with cmake...

Cheers,

  Aitor.

P.D.- Forget the spectrums and the quantum mechanics.
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[DNG] Devuan OpenStack Image

[Herb Garcia]

Has anyone built a Devuan Jessie OpenStack image?

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid
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Re: [DNG] problem installing JRE

[Herb Garcia]

I didn't know about this change.

Also, although I'm subscribed, I'm getting moderated posting to this list.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid
On Apr 18, 2016 9:21 AM, Haines Brown  wrote:
On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 11:49:39AM +0200, Florian Zieboll wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2016 21:30:53 -0400
> Haines Brown  wrote:
>
> > I'm running devuan alpha4
>
> I assume that there is no other alpha4 than the current Jessie...
>
> > Problem is that I can't install
> > default-jre because the tzdata-java package on which it depends can't
> > be found.
>
> I have the default-jre (and tzdata-java) installed on two Devuan Jessie
> systems and I am not aware of any bugs. Also, a
>
> $ apt-get install --reinstall tzdata-java
>
> with the .deb removed from /var/cache/apt/archives, returns without
> errors.
>
> > This is a known bug.
>
> Couldn't find a bug report. Can you provide a link?
>
> > Is there a work-around
>
> Without being able to reproduce your problem, I would suggest to
> download the tzdata-java package from
> https://packages.debian.org/jessie/tzdata-java and manually install it
> with dpkg.
>
> Florian

Florian, found my problem. I had not updated debian alpha4 since
installing it, and when I do so now, I discover the original apt
sources.list used for installation is no longer correct. I had:

  deb http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie main

When I replaced it with

  deb http://packages.devuan.org/merged jessie main

things went much better. JRE now installs.

Haines
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Re: [DNG] list of live-cds and distros based on Devuan

[aitor_czr]

Dear Den,

On 04/23/2016 10:36 AM, Jaromil  wrote:


dear d'ngers

is there anyone here that can pack together quickly a list of current
distributions and livecds based on Devuan?

I'm just trying out thishttp://www.exegnulinux.net/downloads/jessie/
(thanks Dave) and then of course Refracta
https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/testing/  anything else?

thanks


Yes, here you are another one:

Windows 95 

Is there any torrent in the internet?

Thanks in advance,

  Aitor.
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Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd

[aitor_czr]

Hi KatolaZ,


On 04/23/2016 10:36 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:

>> >On 04/22/2016 11:17 AM, KatolaZ   wrote:

>>> > >In my opinion there's no magic line where things on one side are window

 > >>managers and things on the other side are desktop environments. I think
 > >>we can all agree that Unity, KDE and Gnome are desktop environments,
 > >>and dwm and i3 are window managers, but what's Xfce? What's LXDE?
 > >>What's Openbox?
 > >>
 > >>I think of de/wm as a spectrum, not a 1/0.

>> >
>> >I agree with you, there is not a borderline.
>> >
>> >   Aitor.

>I don't know how I ended up appearing as the poster of that message,
>since I didn't say anything like that:)  It's just the result of a
>very bad quoting exercise.
>
>I have posted only one reply in this thread, in which I asked whether
>there was anything besides WMaker and xmonad, with a trailing smile:)
>
>Guys please quote appropriately, or don't quote at all :D
>
>HND
>
>KatolaZ

Ok, i will the subject of the thread to:

" I desagree (was i agree)"

This will be related with cmake...

Cheers,

Aitor.


Ok, i will *change* the subject of the thread to:

" I desagree (was i agree)"

This will be related with cmake...

Cheers,

   Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Devuan OpenStack Image

[Jaromil]

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016, Herb Garcia wrote:

>Has anyone built a Devuan Jessie OpenStack image?

we have one ready with cloud-init installed and also one for
opennebula, they will be included in the beta download repo

ciao


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Re: [DNG] Devuan OpenStack Image

[Herb Garcia]

Awesome!

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid
On Apr 23, 2016 8:52 AM, Jaromil  wrote:
On Mon, 11 Apr 2016, Herb Garcia wrote:

>Has anyone built a Devuan Jessie OpenStack image?

we have one ready with cloud-init installed and also one for
opennebula, they will be included in the beta download repo

ciao


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Re: [DNG] list of live-cds and distros based on Devuan

[aitor_czr]

On 04/23/2016 03:39 PM, Jaromil  wrote:

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016, dev1fanboy wrote:


>https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/wikis/devuan-based
>was the list I had so far.

you have put together a useful collection of information on your
wiki. thanks! and your guide to minimalism is still the best one
around :^) I'll add a link to all this on the new webpages.


ciao


What a surprise !!

I'll add gnuinos to the list :)

Thanks,

  Aitor.
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[DNG] Problems installing Devuan from netboot iso

[Rowland Penny]

Hi, I am trying to install Devuan in a VM and it isn't working. I 
created A Devuan VM midweek and it succeeded.


This time, when it gets to 'Configure the package manager' it seems to 
set up the package manager, but it just goes back to 'Configure the 
package manager' even if you choose 'select and install software' and 
press 'enter' .


I first used the 'devuan-jessie-amd64-alpha4-netboot.iso' I had 
previously used, I then downloaded another copy, just in case mine had 
got corrupted, when this didn't work, I downloaded and tried 
'devuan-jessie-netboot-amd64-alpha2.iso', this also failed in the same way.


Has something changed in the last few days ?

Rowland
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Re: [DNG] list of live-cds and distros based on Devuan

[aitor_czr]

On 04/23/2016 04:18 PM, aitor_czr wrote:


On 04/23/2016 03:39 PM, Jaromil  wrote:

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016, dev1fanboy wrote:


>https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/wikis/devuan-based
>was the list I had so far.

you have put together a useful collection of information on your
wiki. thanks! and your guide to minimalism is still the best one
around :^) I'll add a link to all this on the new webpages.


ciao


What a surprise !!

I'll add gnuinos to the list :)

Thanks,

  Aitor.


Oh, it's included...

Crazy world,

LOL !!

  Aitor.
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Re: [DNG] debootstrap requires key

[parazyd]

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016, Haines Brown wrote:

> This has come up before, but I still don't know the basic
> procedure. I've installed debootstrap on a new disk and run:
> 
>   # debootstrap --arch amd64 jessie /mnt/debinst   \
>   https://packages.devuan.org/devuan
> 
>   I: Retrieving Release
>   I: Retrieving Release.gpg
>   I: Checking Release signature
>   E: Release signed by unknown key (key id 94532124541922FB)
> 
> No change when I downloaded and ran
> 
>   # dpkg -i devuan-keyring_2015.05.05_all.deb
> 
>   Do I have the right keyring? Was the alpha4 release date
>   c. 2015.05.05?  
> 
> In simple step by step terms, what do I do? 
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Maybe try signing the key locally:

# gpg --lsign-key 94532124541922FB

and/or add it to apt by doing:

# gpg --export -a 94532124541922FB | apt-key add -

-- 
~ parazyd
6CB4 6C63 641D B1F1 F811  5B3A BB5E 2E35 B92E 373E


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[DNG] devuan-jessie-i386-alpha4-netboot.iso has AMD64 files?

[Haines Brown]

I downloaded devuan-jessie-i386-alpha4-netboot.iso and installed it on a
key with unetbootin. However, it would not boot, and when I looked more
closely at it I find that its /boot directory has the initrd0.amd
vmlinuz0.amd.

Was the reason for my key not booting that it is for an AMD64 system?
Is not devuan-jessie-i386-alpha4-netboot.iso for a 32 bit system?

Haines Brown
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Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 05:08:10PM +0900, Simon Walter wrote:
> 
> 
> On 04/23/2016 04:20 PM, aitor_czr wrote:
> >
> >On 04/22/2016 11:17 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:
> >>In my opinion there's no magic line where things on one side are window
> >>>managers and things on the other side are desktop environments. I think
> >>>we can all agree that Unity, KDE and Gnome are desktop environments,
> >>>and dwm and i3 are window managers, but what's Xfce? What's LXDE?
> >>>What's Openbox?
> >>>
> >>>I think of de/wm as a spectrum, not a 1/0.
> >
> >I agree with you, there is not a borderline.
> 
> It doesn't matter how much you agree on an opinion. That will not
> make it fact. There is a technical difference between the two. Just
> look up the definition of "window manager" and "desktop environment"
> on any techsite/dictionary/encyclopedia. Unless you are trying to
> sound ignorant, it would make sense to use the correct terminology.

Isn't a window manager the thing that intercepts your normal, everyday 
communication between an X client and an X server and acts as a 
man-in-the-middle to provide you with window borders, motility, and the 
like?  The thing that could even be running on a different machine from 
either the client of the server?

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] Printing -- now even pdf works. I have no idea why.

[Rainer Weikusat]

Didier Kryn  writes:
> Le 22/04/2016 22:24, Rainer Weikusat a écrit :
>> Simon Hobson  writes:
>>> >Didier Kryn  wrote:

[...]

>>> >FWIW I think the idea behind CUPS is a good one - though I haven't
>>> >really fiddled with it. The idea of separating out the input
>>> >transport, format conversions (via a standardised intermediate
>>> >format), and output transports, seems to fit in well with the unix
>>> >philosophy of modularity.
>> That's exactly how a lpr/lpd system works, too.
> I don't remember lpr can present you a list of printers, telling
> where they are, which kind of paper, page size and double-side they
> handle, if they're ready to print and if they're lacking ink. Not all
> of this actually works well in Cups, but at least it has this
> ambition.

Provided a printer supports supplying this information, you'll get that
with lprng, too (provided there's bidirectional communication with a
printer, it can send a text status).

[...]

> With lpr you must manually edit a config line for every single
> printer you want to be able to ever use, and every computer in your
> company must be configured everytime they add or remove a printer.

A networked 'printing system' based on lprng would usually use a (or
some) dedicated spooling server(s). These would be configured such that
they can talk to some printer or printer(s). These printers can then
just be used, eg, this

[rw@doppelsaurus]~#lpq -Pall@192.168.1.1
Printer 'all@192.168.1.1' - cannot open connection - Connection timed
out Make sure the remote host supports the LPD protocol
and accepts connections from this host and from non-privileged (>1023)
ports

asks my router to give me the queue status of all printers attached to
it. Since it's not running a print server, the request fails.

BTW, I didn't claim that lprng was feature-wise on par with CUPS, just
that it also has a job transmission program (lpr), configurable format
conversion programs and a 'send job to printer' backend. And it's
certainly amply sufficient for simple scenarios where one (or a few)
user(s) uses (share) a single printer. Especially if those users don't
mind using something else than "the cavemen interface" ("You point and
you grunt", E. Moglen [IIRC]).
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Re: [DNG] debootstrap requires key

[dev1fanboy]

If I remember right... You can parse the option --no-check-gpg to debootstrap, 
and you might need to use --exclude=devuan-keyring,gpgv,gnupg as well and just 
install devuan-keyring after the debootstrap to make sure you are using the gpg 
key for the install.

Cheers,

chillfan

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 1:13 PM, Haines Brown  wrote:
> This has come up before, but I still don't know the basic
> procedure. I've installed debootstrap on a new disk and run:
> 
>   # debootstrap --arch amd64 jessie /mnt/debinst   \
>   https://packages.devuan.org/devuan
> 
>   I: Retrieving Release
>   I: Retrieving Release.gpg
>   I: Checking Release signature
>   E: Release signed by unknown key (key id 94532124541922FB)
> 
> No change when I downloaded and ran
> 
>   # dpkg -i devuan-keyring_2015.05.05_all.deb
> 
>   Do I have the right keyring? Was the alpha4 release date
>   c. 2015.05.05?
> 
> In simple step by step terms, what do I do?
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Re: [DNG] funny little program

[tilt!]

Am 22.04.2016 um 21:52 schrieb Rainer Weikusat:
> People who may not know it yet but who are (like me) prone to
> inverting two letter command names every once in a while might want
> to have a look at the sl package/ program.

Unfortunately it is not possible to provide such helper programs for 
cat, cd, cp, dd, dh, gpg, gs, ln, nl, nop, pip, pon, pwd, ss, tac, test 
and tset. :-)


Regards, T.






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Re: [DNG] debootstrap requires key

[Haines Brown]

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 05:46:10PM +0100, dev1fanboy wrote:

> If I remember right... You can parse the option --no-check-gpg to
> debootstrap, and you might need to use
> --exclude=devuan-keyring,gpgv,gnupg as well and just install
> devuan-keyring after the debootstrap to make sure you are using the
> gpg key for the install.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> chillfan
> 
> On Saturday, April 23, 2016 1:13 PM, Haines Brown
>  wrote:

> > This has come up before, but I still don't know the basic
> > procedure. I've installed debootstrap on a new disk and run:
> > 
> >   # debootstrap --arch amd64 jessie /mnt/debinst   \
> >   https://packages.devuan.org/devuan

Besides correcting my typo (removing --arch amd option), and adding the
--no-check-gpg option, debootstrap ran better. That is, a bunch of files
were validated and extracted.

But at the end this appeared:

  W: /lib/i386-linux-gnu/i686/cmov/libc.so.6: version 'GLIB_2.17' not
  found (required by /lib-i3896-linux-gnu/libmount.so.1)

And when I try

# chroot /mnt/debinst
/bin/bash: /lib/i386-linux-gnu/i686/cmov/libc.so.6: version
  `GLIBC_2.15' not found (required by /bin/bash) 

I gather glibc is provided by libc. This looks like some kind of version
incompatibility. Hoever, While in target drive archive is
libc6_2.19-18+deb8u4_i386.deb, there's no libc* in target /lib. So
rather than version problem, it may be that libc was not installed
for some reason. If I simply do # dpkg -i libc_6.19-18+deb8u4_i386.deb
will it install on the target drive rather than messing up my current
Wheezy library?

Haines Brown


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[DNG] 3D Printing in Devuan workstation

[Hughe Chung]

Hi,

I've been heavily involved in Open Source 3D Printing since 2015.
It took seven or eight months for me to build the first Reprap 3D 
Printer. The second one I bought as a kit took two days.


What I learned is when Open Source software meets Open Source hardware, 
only the sky is  limit. Frankly speaking money is not an issue anymore. 
I probably saved $4,000 by building two 3D Printers. The 3rd one, a 
large 3D Printer that I've been designing would save me at least 
$5,000+.


Software I use:

Arduino IDE - firmware build / modification
Marlin firmware
Pronterface - 3D Printing job and 3D Printer control
Slic3r - generate a Gcode file for printing models
OpenSCAD - design 3D models
QCAD - DXF file conversion for laser cutting


Essential software for 3D Printing in Devuan.

Xorg OpenGL driver


Arduino IDE

All Open Source firmwares basically support Arduino based controller 
boards. Arduino became the de facto standard in RepRap community. 
Arduino IDE makes you build or modify a firmware such as Marlin or 
Repetier.


Host program

The host program controls the 3D Printer. It provides all the features 
of controlling 3D Printer and printing jobs.


Pronterface (http://www.pronterface.com/)
It requires dbus, python packages for OpenGL, gnome2.

Repetier-host (http://www.repetier.com)
It requires the complete mono framework package.

Slicer

It reads 3D model files to generate the Gcode file settings for the 3D 
Printer.


Slic3r (http://slic3r.org/)
Cura (https://ultimaker.com/en/products/cura-software)

3D Modeling program

You can use any 3D modeling or CAD program that generates STL file 
format.


OpenSCAD (http://www.openscad.org/)
You write a script to build a model. Once a model is done, modification 
of the model is quick and simple by changing variables compared to 
hundred thousands of mesh data.


blender (https://www.blender.org/)
I rarely use it.

2D CAD program

QCAD (http://www.qcad.org/en/)

It generates DXF files compatible with laser cutter.
OpenSCAD's DXF export removes circle data (radius and coordinate of the 
center)  which a laser cutting company I dealt with rejected twice.


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[DNG] devuan-jessie-i386-alpha4-netboot.iso has AMD64 files?

[aitor_czr]

On 04/24/2016 12:57 AM, Haines Brown  wrote:

I downloaded devuan-jessie-i386-alpha4-netboot.iso and installed it on a
key with unetbootin. However, it would not boot, and when I looked more
closely at it I find that its /boot directory has the initrd0.amd
vmlinuz0.amd.

Was the reason for my key not booting that it is for an AMD64 system?
Is not devuan-jessie-i386-alpha4-netboot.iso for a 32 bit system?

Haines Brown


Unetbootin generates a file named syslinux.cfg in the parent directory 
of the USB stick. You can modify it because the stick is not protected, 
unlike using dd. Here you are an example:


default menu.c32
prompt 0
menu title [...]
timeout 100

label ubnentry0
  menu label ^[...]
  kernel /live/vmlinuz
  append initrd=/live/initrd.img boot=live config locales=en_US.UTF-8 
keyb=es quiet splash


label ubnentry1
  [... etc ...]

Use the content of isolinux/menu.cfg for that.

Cheers,

  Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Problems installing Devuan from netboot iso

[Daniel Reurich]

Hi Rowland

On 24/04/16 02:21, Rowland Penny wrote:
> Hi, I am trying to install Devuan in a VM and it isn't working. I 
> created A Devuan VM midweek and it succeeded.
> 
> This time, when it gets to 'Configure the package manager' it seems
> to set up the package manager, but it just goes back to 'Configure
> the package manager' even if you choose 'select and install software'
> and press 'enter' .

It's a known issue and the fix is already in the repo.  The issue was
related to changing the security mirror settings in a udeb for the
installer.
> 
> I first used the 'devuan-jessie-amd64-alpha4-netboot.iso' I had 
> previously used, I then downloaded another copy, just in case mine
> had got corrupted, when this didn't work, I downloaded and tried 
> 'devuan-jessie-netboot-amd64-alpha2.iso', this also failed in the
> same way.
> 
> Has something changed in the last few days ?

I've been doing a bunch of work on the installer... preparing for the
beta release.

-
Daniel Reurich
Centurion Computer Technology (2005) Ltd.
021 797 722



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Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 09:36:03 +0100
KatolaZ  wrote:


> I don't know how I ended up appearing as the poster of that message,
> since I didn't say anything like that :) It's just the result of a
> very bad quoting exercise.

[snip]

> Guys please quote appropriately, or don't quote at all :D

Yes!

When some top post, and some bottom post, and some interleave post, and
people fail to trim irrelevant context, there are real consequences in
understanding. Inaccurate attribution is just one of many
misunderstandings resulting from all this stuff.

I'll interleave post (or bottom post short posts) til the day I die,
but I won't try to convince others to go along with me. All I'll say is
that a mailing list is supposed to be a group discussion in which the
whole is greater than the sum of the parts, and ambiguity is the enemy
of meaningful discussion.

Everyone: Top, bottom and interleave posters alike, should trim all
context not relevant to their response. To do otherwise leaves a
systemd-like entangled mess. Some context, the relevant context, should
remain, or else why not start a brand new thread? And if you top-post,
for gosh sakes don't say things like "I agree" or "that's why we need
free software." Because it's mission impossible to go through the whole
reverse order of six levels of context to figure ouw that is meant by
"that's" or to figure out what the poster agrees with. On the few
occasions I top-post (usually when the whole thread is top posted and
it would wreck the thread to do otherwise), I use redundancy by
substituting specific nouns for pronouns or articles.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
April 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 17:08:10 +0900
Simon Walter  wrote:

> On 04/23/2016 04:20 PM, aitor_czr wrote:
> >
> > On 04/22/2016 11:17 AM, KatolaZ  wrote:  
> >> In my opinion there's no magic line where things on one side are
> >> window  
> >> >managers and things on the other side are desktop environments. I
> >> >think we can all agree that Unity, KDE and Gnome are desktop
> >> >environments, and dwm and i3 are window managers, but what's
> >> >Xfce? What's LXDE? What's Openbox?
> >> >
> >> >I think of de/wm as a spectrum, not a 1/0.  
> >
> > I agree with you, there is not a borderline.  
> 
> It doesn't matter how much you agree on an opinion. That will not
> make it fact. There is a technical difference between the two. Just
> look up the definition of "window manager" and "desktop environment"
> on any techsite/dictionary/encyclopedia. Unless you are trying to
> sound ignorant, it would make sense to use the correct terminology.

I've never been afraid of sounding ignorant, especially when I'm right.
All the X environments I've ever seen have window managers to manipulate
and add decorations to windows. Most X environments I've seen have
programs added on to the basic window manager to work with it,
configure it, and add features to it. So the question is: How much
software is added to the software that manages and decorates windows?
And that answer varies across a spectrum, according to the
wm/de/whatever you're discussing.

By the way, anyone wanting to take "sounding ignorant" to the next
level should argue that LXDE is as much of a Desktop Environment as
Gnome, or that LXDE as much of a Window Manager as dwm.

One more thing: I think this whole wm/de thing is a useless
distinction that never should have been made.

Oh, and I claim authorship of the thing that Aitor agreed with: It was
me who said that, not KatolaZ. 

SteveT

Steve Litt 
April 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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