Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Le 26/09/2015 08:04, Edward Bartolo a écrit : not to see the ultimate aim of the project, which is to avoid using ifup, ifdown and any interfaces files Edward, This was, up to now, a hidden goal. It might explain why you never replied to my mails, because I was advocating the opposite: cooperate gently with the existing infrastructure instead of bypassing it all. This goal was probably not hidden to those reviewing the source, but it is not my way to look into the source before reading a clear statement about the intentions. to be evaluated against the context of a coder who has had NO FORMAL TRAINING IN PROGRAMMING. Instead, you presented yourself from the beginning as an seasonned programmer and rejected some wise recommendations. I won't evaluate the result. About the method, I would say it is a good way to keep people like me out of the loop; but I'm not saying it was intentionnal. Thanks for your effort. I bet you have learned a lot about Linux, linuxers and cooperative development. I hope you won't be discouraged by the reactions. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 08:04:15AM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: [cut] > > I dedicated hours upon hours of my free time, often resulting in a > headache to complete the project within reasonable time. However, I go > a beating and a severe bashing instead of being guided to do better > the next time. > Again guys, the quality of a software does not improve of get worse if we spend more words about its pluses and minuses, or if we bring in the discussion more motivations and excuses about what we think is a plus or a minus. A software is good if it serves a need or solves a problem in a good way, whatever your notion of "good" is. If this happens, (some) people will use, change and improve it, and the software will survive. Otherwise, it will fall into oblivion, as has already happened for 99.9% of the code written so far. For Edward: I know it is almost unavoidable to get comments on the software you produce at a personal level, but as in any other creative activity, the take of the creator on his own creature might (or would? or should?) differ from the opinion of others. You should probably accept it and live with that, if you want to continue writing software. It's just impossible to make everybody happy, so if you want to keep coding just code for your own happiness, as every free software coder does. Sometimes your happiness will match the happiness of somebody else, while most of the times it will not. If this is a major problem for you, go choose another creative activity and have fun :) Having said that, I also had a quick look to netman C code, and it seemed a bit kinky to me, even putting aside the fact that it does not compile out of the box, which is quite irritating as well... My2Cents KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] report: upgrade Debian Wheezy to Devuan Jessie
Hi all, I try out the step's below, but the first 'apt-get upgrade' will not work. I get many "500 Invalid Header" errors. One for each package. I started from an new Debian 7.1 Netinst (Wheezy) minimal installation. Any ideas ? Udo Hennig Am 16.09.2015 um 16:30 schrieb Rob Owens: > This test is on a non-gui system. > > 'apt-get update' > > 'apt-get upgrade' > > 'apt-get remove libsystemd-login0' # Not sure why this was installed > on my Wheezy system. This operation also removed dbus. > > 'wget > http://packages.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/devuan-baseconf/devuan-baseconf_0.6.4+devuan3_all.deb' > > 'dpkg -i devuan-baseconf_0.6.4+devuan3_all.deb' > > enter 'jessie' in place of the default value of 'ceres' > > remove debian sources from /etc/apt/sources.list (if this is a > required step, why not have the devuan-baseconf deb comment out > these sources?) > > 'apt-get update' > > 'apt-get install devuan-keyring' > > 'apt-get update' > > 'apt-get upgrade' > > 'apt-get update' -- just to be sure > > 'apt-get dist-upgrade' # db5.1-util is kept back. Many new > packages are installed, including dbus, samba, and qemu-kvm. > > 'aptitude search ~i | grep systemd' shows libsystemd0 is > installed, which was not present on my Wheezy system. I > understand this is relatively benign, but I'm reporting it > to be complete. > > The machine boots without errors, and 'lsb_release -a' shows > that I am running Devuan. > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Edward, Although i will stay with wicd i am glad that with netman i do have a choice. And most important of all you actually did something whereas others still are sitting on their hands. So if someone friendly point out some improvements make us of it. And if some dick is just criticizing without any real suggestion for improvement just ignore him. Just my 0,02 Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 08:04:15 +0200 From: Edward Bartolo To: dng Subject: Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman? Dear All, As many probably remember, when I asked to be allowed to create a network manager, I made it clear that I have NO FORMAL TRAINING IN PROGRAMMING. What I know, has been learnt by buying expensive books from specialised booksellers and studying on my own. Now regarding the bad marks I am getting (2/10?) for writing a project that has been working since its inception although I have been using it for a month now without issues. Furthermore, I don't want to use shell scripts or any interpreters: those who want to use them can easily, or I dare say not so easily, as coding requires commitment, especially, if it is done for free as in my case, opt to code a network manager in THEIR TIME. Intellectual myopia or better, the urge to troll and discourage me to continue with this project, is preventing those who criticise it negatively, not to see the ultimate aim of the project, which is to avoid using ifup, ifdown and any interfaces files. However, DEVUAN was in an urgent need of a network manager, and I offered my help, and indeed, humbly presented a NOT SO PROFESSIONAL APPLICATION that works. Yes, it is not shiny, and it does not create a systray icon from where it can be invoked, but it works and it is stable. >From the remarks I am getting, apart from some genuine Devuan DDs, I think, I have got a FAIL in this project, which is to be evaluated against the context of a coder who has had NO FORMAL TRAINING IN PROGRAMMING. Please, also note, being arrogant and disrespectful, does not persuade anyone to do what such an attacker wants. You have your time and a brain, use them to create your own network manager according to what you deem best. I dedicated hours upon hours of my free time, often resulting in a headache to complete the project within reasonable time. However, I go a beating and a severe bashing instead of being guided to do better the next time. Edward ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Hi All, I was asked for the current netman's frontend GUI screenshot. Here it is: http://s13.postimg.org/lirdshy07/2015_09_26_124924_1600x900_scrot.png I liked it for its simplicity... but I will have to adapt to what potential users want. Edward On 26/09/2015, info at smallinnovations.nl wrote: > Edward, > > Although i will stay with wicd i am glad that with netman i do have a > choice. > And most important of all you actually did something whereas others > still are sitting on their hands. > So if someone friendly point out some improvements make us of it. > And if some dick is just criticizing without any real suggestion for > improvement just ignore him. > > Just my 0,02 > >> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 08:04:15 +0200 >> From: Edward Bartolo >> To: dng >> Subject: Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman? >> >> >> Dear All, >> >> As many probably remember, when I asked to be allowed to create a >> network manager, I made it clear that I have NO FORMAL TRAINING IN >> PROGRAMMING. What I know, has been learnt by buying expensive books >> from specialised booksellers and studying on my own. >> >> Now regarding the bad marks I am getting (2/10?) for writing a project >> that has been working since its inception although I have been >> using it for a month now without issues. Furthermore, I don't want to >> use shell scripts or any interpreters: those who want to use them can >> easily, or I dare say not so easily, as coding requires commitment, >> especially, if it is done for free as in my case, opt to code a >> network manager in THEIR TIME. >> >> Intellectual myopia or better, the urge to troll and discourage me to >> continue with this project, is preventing those who criticise it >> negatively, not to see the ultimate aim of the project, which is to >> avoid using ifup, ifdown and any interfaces files. However, DEVUAN was >> in an urgent need of a network manager, and I offered my help, and >> indeed, humbly presented a NOT SO PROFESSIONAL APPLICATION that works. >> Yes, it is not shiny, and it does not create a systray icon from where >> it can be invoked, but it works and it is stable. >> >> >From the remarks I am getting, apart from some genuine Devuan DDs, I >> think, I have got a FAIL in this project, which is to be evaluated >> against the context of a coder who has had NO FORMAL TRAINING IN >> PROGRAMMING. >> >> Please, also note, being arrogant and disrespectful, does not persuade >> anyone to do what such an attacker wants. You have your time and a >> brain, use them to create your own network manager according to what >> you deem best. >> >> I dedicated hours upon hours of my free time, often resulting in a >> headache to complete the project within reasonable time. However, I go >> a beating and a severe bashing instead of being guided to do better >> the next time. >> >> >> Edward > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
This is a screen shot with the Edit dialog shown. http://postimg.org/image/9obv7fnlp/ On 26/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: > Hi All, > > I was asked for the current netman's frontend GUI screenshot. Here it is: > http://s13.postimg.org/lirdshy07/2015_09_26_124924_1600x900_scrot.png > > I liked it for its simplicity... but I will have to adapt to what > potential users want. > > Edward > > On 26/09/2015, info at smallinnovations.nl > wrote: >> Edward, >> >> Although i will stay with wicd i am glad that with netman i do have a >> choice. >> And most important of all you actually did something whereas others >> still are sitting on their hands. >> So if someone friendly point out some improvements make us of it. >> And if some dick is just criticizing without any real suggestion for >> improvement just ignore him. >> >> Just my 0,02 >> >>> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 08:04:15 +0200 >>> From: Edward Bartolo >>> To: dng >>> Subject: Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman? >>> >>> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> As many probably remember, when I asked to be allowed to create a >>> network manager, I made it clear that I have NO FORMAL TRAINING IN >>> PROGRAMMING. What I know, has been learnt by buying expensive books >>> from specialised booksellers and studying on my own. >>> >>> Now regarding the bad marks I am getting (2/10?) for writing a project >>> that has been working since its inception although I have been >>> using it for a month now without issues. Furthermore, I don't want to >>> use shell scripts or any interpreters: those who want to use them can >>> easily, or I dare say not so easily, as coding requires commitment, >>> especially, if it is done for free as in my case, opt to code a >>> network manager in THEIR TIME. >>> >>> Intellectual myopia or better, the urge to troll and discourage me to >>> continue with this project, is preventing those who criticise it >>> negatively, not to see the ultimate aim of the project, which is to >>> avoid using ifup, ifdown and any interfaces files. However, DEVUAN was >>> in an urgent need of a network manager, and I offered my help, and >>> indeed, humbly presented a NOT SO PROFESSIONAL APPLICATION that works. >>> Yes, it is not shiny, and it does not create a systray icon from where >>> it can be invoked, but it works and it is stable. >>> >>> >From the remarks I am getting, apart from some genuine Devuan DDs, I >>> think, I have got a FAIL in this project, which is to be evaluated >>> against the context of a coder who has had NO FORMAL TRAINING IN >>> PROGRAMMING. >>> >>> Please, also note, being arrogant and disrespectful, does not persuade >>> anyone to do what such an attacker wants. You have your time and a >>> brain, use them to create your own network manager according to what >>> you deem best. >>> >>> I dedicated hours upon hours of my free time, often resulting in a >>> headache to complete the project within reasonable time. However, I go >>> a beating and a severe bashing instead of being guided to do better >>> the next time. >>> >>> >>> Edward >> >> ___ >> Dng mailing list >> Dng@lists.dyne.org >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >> > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
FYI, ./ps_mem.py |grep netman 8.5 MiB + 1.4 MiB = 9.9 MiB netman ./ps_mem.py |grep wicd 6.7 MiB + 1.2 MiB = 7.9 MiB wicd-monitor 8.4 MiB + 858.5 KiB = 9.2 MiB wicd 14.6 MiB + 2.1 MiB = 16.8 MiB wicd-client And the 9.9 used by netman is recovered by closing the program after you connect. I know people who are running with only 256MB RAM, and they will be happy with this. fsr On 09/26/2015 07:25 AM, Edward Bartolo wrote: > This is a screen shot with the Edit dialog shown. > http://postimg.org/image/9obv7fnlp/ > > On 26/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> I was asked for the current netman's frontend GUI screenshot. Here it is: >> http://s13.postimg.org/lirdshy07/2015_09_26_124924_1600x900_scrot.png >> >> I liked it for its simplicity... but I will have to adapt to what >> potential users want. >> >> Edward >> >> On 26/09/2015, info at smallinnovations.nl >> wrote: >>> Edward, >>> >>> Although i will stay with wicd i am glad that with netman i do have a >>> choice. >>> And most important of all you actually did something whereas others >>> still are sitting on their hands. >>> So if someone friendly point out some improvements make us of it. >>> And if some dick is just criticizing without any real suggestion for >>> improvement just ignore him. >>> >>> Just my 0,02 >>> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 08:04:15 +0200 From: Edward Bartolo To: dng Subject: Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman? Dear All, As many probably remember, when I asked to be allowed to create a network manager, I made it clear that I have NO FORMAL TRAINING IN PROGRAMMING. What I know, has been learnt by buying expensive books from specialised booksellers and studying on my own. Now regarding the bad marks I am getting (2/10?) for writing a project that has been working since its inception although I have been using it for a month now without issues. Furthermore, I don't want to use shell scripts or any interpreters: those who want to use them can easily, or I dare say not so easily, as coding requires commitment, especially, if it is done for free as in my case, opt to code a network manager in THEIR TIME. Intellectual myopia or better, the urge to troll and discourage me to continue with this project, is preventing those who criticise it negatively, not to see the ultimate aim of the project, which is to avoid using ifup, ifdown and any interfaces files. However, DEVUAN was in an urgent need of a network manager, and I offered my help, and indeed, humbly presented a NOT SO PROFESSIONAL APPLICATION that works. Yes, it is not shiny, and it does not create a systray icon from where it can be invoked, but it works and it is stable. >From the remarks I am getting, apart from some genuine Devuan DDs, I think, I have got a FAIL in this project, which is to be evaluated against the context of a coder who has had NO FORMAL TRAINING IN PROGRAMMING. Please, also note, being arrogant and disrespectful, does not persuade anyone to do what such an attacker wants. You have your time and a brain, use them to create your own network manager according to what you deem best. I dedicated hours upon hours of my free time, often resulting in a headache to complete the project within reasonable time. However, I go a beating and a severe bashing instead of being guided to do better the next time. Edward >>> >>> ___ >>> Dng mailing list >>> Dng@lists.dyne.org >>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >>> >> > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Hi fsmithred, Thanks for the encouragement. Edward On 26/09/2015, fsmithred wrote: > FYI, > > ./ps_mem.py |grep netman > 8.5 MiB + 1.4 MiB = 9.9 MiB netman > > ./ps_mem.py |grep wicd > 6.7 MiB + 1.2 MiB = 7.9 MiB wicd-monitor > 8.4 MiB + 858.5 KiB = 9.2 MiB wicd > 14.6 MiB + 2.1 MiB = 16.8 MiB wicd-client > > > And the 9.9 used by netman is recovered by closing the program after you > connect. I know people who are running with only 256MB RAM, and they will > be happy with this. > > fsr > > > On 09/26/2015 07:25 AM, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> This is a screen shot with the Edit dialog shown. >> http://postimg.org/image/9obv7fnlp/ >> >> On 26/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I was asked for the current netman's frontend GUI screenshot. Here it is: >>> http://s13.postimg.org/lirdshy07/2015_09_26_124924_1600x900_scrot.png >>> >>> I liked it for its simplicity... but I will have to adapt to what >>> potential users want. >>> >>> Edward >>> >>> On 26/09/2015, info at smallinnovations.nl >>> wrote: Edward, Although i will stay with wicd i am glad that with netman i do have a choice. And most important of all you actually did something whereas others still are sitting on their hands. So if someone friendly point out some improvements make us of it. And if some dick is just criticizing without any real suggestion for improvement just ignore him. Just my 0,02 > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 08:04:15 +0200 > From: Edward Bartolo > To: dng > Subject: Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman? > > > Dear All, > > As many probably remember, when I asked to be allowed to create a > network manager, I made it clear that I have NO FORMAL TRAINING IN > PROGRAMMING. What I know, has been learnt by buying expensive books > from specialised booksellers and studying on my own. > > Now regarding the bad marks I am getting (2/10?) for writing a project > that has been working since its inception although I have been > using it for a month now without issues. Furthermore, I don't want to > use shell scripts or any interpreters: those who want to use them can > easily, or I dare say not so easily, as coding requires commitment, > especially, if it is done for free as in my case, opt to code a > network manager in THEIR TIME. > > Intellectual myopia or better, the urge to troll and discourage me to > continue with this project, is preventing those who criticise it > negatively, not to see the ultimate aim of the project, which is to > avoid using ifup, ifdown and any interfaces files. However, DEVUAN was > in an urgent need of a network manager, and I offered my help, and > indeed, humbly presented a NOT SO PROFESSIONAL APPLICATION that works. > Yes, it is not shiny, and it does not create a systray icon from where > it can be invoked, but it works and it is stable. > > >From the remarks I am getting, apart from some genuine Devuan DDs, I > think, I have got a FAIL in this project, which is to be evaluated > against the context of a coder who has had NO FORMAL TRAINING IN > PROGRAMMING. > > Please, also note, being arrogant and disrespectful, does not persuade > anyone to do what such an attacker wants. You have your time and a > brain, use them to create your own network manager according to what > you deem best. > > I dedicated hours upon hours of my free time, often resulting in a > headache to complete the project within reasonable time. However, I go > a beating and a severe bashing instead of being guided to do better > the next time. > > > Edward ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >>> >> ___ >> Dng mailing list >> Dng@lists.dyne.org >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >> > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
On 25/09/15 17:07, Hleb Valoshka wrote: > > If your possible next project will look like netman then please do > nothing. It's a lowest quality project I've ever seen. It looks really > bad. You better read a good book about software architect. > Your comments are a disgrace and do nothing but inflame, upset, and dissuade people from trying. They are the comments of an ignoramus and do nothing but divide a community. Were you so good when you started coding ? Please take your obnoxious and negative comments elsewhere - if I could I'd give you 10c to go try and find someone to phone who actually gives a damn what you think. You say things like this because you can hide behind an email address. Would you say the same to his face, or mine ? I doubt it. > I don't see any reason to throw away wicd and replace it with your tool. Excellent. Who said you had too ? Is it compulsory or obligatory ? I don't remember seeing that anywhere. But there is at least another alternative for those who might want something different. Make some positive contribution on how to do something better. But please leave out the unhelpful and destructive negativity. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 01:25:09PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: > This is a screen shot with the Edit dialog shown. > http://postimg.org/image/9obv7fnlp/ Your aerial view walpaper is lovely. It's on the verge of giving me vertigo. I'm wondering if there are technical reasons to switch from wicd to netman. As far as I know, wicd is systemd-free. Is there any reason to suspect it's going to be otherwise? There is a nontechnical reason, of course, which is supporting our own developers. The main issue is I have with switching is that if I have trouble with it, whether it's my fault or not, I'll lose the convenient network access I use to ask for help. I'm currently using wicd, and there's one user-oriented feature it seems to lack. When I'm at a site where they provide wifi, it detects it, then allows me to enter the local wifi password. But when I'm away from it, there seems to be no way to tell it about the now-remote site. Now the occasions on which I want to use it are vanishingly small. But is has once happened that I'm initialising a new device, and it would be massively convenient not to have to visit every wifi spot I plan to use merely to transfer the passwords from the old device to the new. Can netman do this? I also like a mode in which I can see the password I'm entering. I'm not a great typist, and I'd like to know whether I have the wrong password or merely entered it wrong. When my wife broke her wrist, correct password typing became an unsurmountable obstacle for her. Seeing the password is a security risk, but it's also an invaluable accessibility feature. All in all, considering where you started from, you've done an amazing job. I haven't read the code or tried it, but the UI looks straightforward and to the point. You have probably learned a lot, too. Keep up the good work. -- hendrik > > On 26/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > I was asked for the current netman's frontend GUI screenshot. Here it is: > > http://s13.postimg.org/lirdshy07/2015_09_26_124924_1600x900_scrot.png > > > > I liked it for its simplicity... but I will have to adapt to what > > potential users want. > > > > Edward > > > > On 26/09/2015, info at smallinnovations.nl > > wrote: > >> Edward, > >> > >> Although i will stay with wicd i am glad that with netman i do have a > >> choice. > >> And most important of all you actually did something whereas others > >> still are sitting on their hands. > >> So if someone friendly point out some improvements make us of it. > >> And if some dick is just criticizing without any real suggestion for > >> improvement just ignore him. > >> > >> Just my 0,02 > >> > >>> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 08:04:15 +0200 > >>> From: Edward Bartolo > >>> To: dng > >>> Subject: Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman? > >>> > >>> > >>> Dear All, > >>> > >>> As many probably remember, when I asked to be allowed to create a > >>> network manager, I made it clear that I have NO FORMAL TRAINING IN > >>> PROGRAMMING. What I know, has been learnt by buying expensive books > >>> from specialised booksellers and studying on my own. > >>> > >>> Now regarding the bad marks I am getting (2/10?) for writing a project > >>> that has been working since its inception although I have been > >>> using it for a month now without issues. Furthermore, I don't want to > >>> use shell scripts or any interpreters: those who want to use them can > >>> easily, or I dare say not so easily, as coding requires commitment, > >>> especially, if it is done for free as in my case, opt to code a > >>> network manager in THEIR TIME. > >>> > >>> Intellectual myopia or better, the urge to troll and discourage me to > >>> continue with this project, is preventing those who criticise it > >>> negatively, not to see the ultimate aim of the project, which is to > >>> avoid using ifup, ifdown and any interfaces files. However, DEVUAN was > >>> in an urgent need of a network manager, and I offered my help, and > >>> indeed, humbly presented a NOT SO PROFESSIONAL APPLICATION that works. > >>> Yes, it is not shiny, and it does not create a systray icon from where > >>> it can be invoked, but it works and it is stable. > >>> > >>> >From the remarks I am getting, apart from some genuine Devuan DDs, I > >>> think, I have got a FAIL in this project, which is to be evaluated > >>> against the context of a coder who has had NO FORMAL TRAINING IN > >>> PROGRAMMING. > >>> > >>> Please, also note, being arrogant and disrespectful, does not persuade > >>> anyone to do what such an attacker wants. You have your time and a > >>> brain, use them to create your own network manager according to what > >>> you deem best. > >>> > >>> I dedicated hours upon hours of my free time, often resulting in a > >>> headache to complete the project within reasonable time. However, I go > >>> a beating and a severe bashing instead of being guided to do better > >>> the next time. > >>> > >>> > >>> Edward > >> > >
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
If you know the essids and the corresponding password you can reenter these by clicking the New button and filling the essid and password. You can also switch between obfuscating the password chars and seeing exactly what you type. netman uses an algorithm where it gives first priority to the best wifi signal available provided a corresponding essid file exists. So, if you are away from say wifiX, netman will not attempt to use it unless you force to do so. Edward On 26/09/2015, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 01:25:09PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> This is a screen shot with the Edit dialog shown. >> http://postimg.org/image/9obv7fnlp/ > > > Your aerial view walpaper is lovely. It's on the verge of giving me > vertigo. > > I'm wondering if there are technical reasons to switch from wicd to > netman. As far as I know, wicd is systemd-free. Is there any reason to > suspect it's going to be otherwise? > > There is a nontechnical reason, of course, which is supporting our own > developers. > > The main issue is I have with switching is that if I have trouble with > it, whether it's my fault or not, I'll lose the convenient network > access I use to ask for help. > > I'm currently using wicd, and there's one user-oriented feature it seems > to lack. When I'm at a site where they provide wifi, it detects it, > then allows me to enter the local wifi password. > > But when I'm away from it, there seems to be no way to tell it about the > now-remote site. > > Now the occasions on which I want to use it are vanishingly small. But > is has once happened that I'm initialising a new device, and it would be > massively convenient not to have to visit every wifi spot I plan to use > merely to transfer the passwords from the old device to the new. > > Can netman do this? > > I also like a mode in which I can see the password I'm entering. I'm > not a great typist, and I'd like to know whether I have the wrong > password or merely entered it wrong. When my wife broke her wrist, > correct password typing became an unsurmountable obstacle for her. > Seeing the password is a security risk, but it's also an invaluable > accessibility feature. > > All in all, considering where you started from, you've done an > amazing job. I haven't read the code or tried it, but the UI looks > straightforward and to the point. You have probably learned a lot, too. > Keep up the good work. > > -- hendrik > >> >> On 26/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> > Hi All, >> > >> > I was asked for the current netman's frontend GUI screenshot. Here it >> > is: >> > http://s13.postimg.org/lirdshy07/2015_09_26_124924_1600x900_scrot.png >> > >> > I liked it for its simplicity... but I will have to adapt to what >> > potential users want. >> > >> > Edward >> > >> > On 26/09/2015, info at smallinnovations.nl >> > wrote: >> >> Edward, >> >> >> >> Although i will stay with wicd i am glad that with netman i do have a >> >> choice. >> >> And most important of all you actually did something whereas others >> >> still are sitting on their hands. >> >> So if someone friendly point out some improvements make us of it. >> >> And if some dick is just criticizing without any real suggestion for >> >> improvement just ignore him. >> >> >> >> Just my 0,02 >> >> >> >>> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 08:04:15 +0200 >> >>> From: Edward Bartolo >> >>> To: dng >> >>> Subject: Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Dear All, >> >>> >> >>> As many probably remember, when I asked to be allowed to create a >> >>> network manager, I made it clear that I have NO FORMAL TRAINING IN >> >>> PROGRAMMING. What I know, has been learnt by buying expensive books >> >>> from specialised booksellers and studying on my own. >> >>> >> >>> Now regarding the bad marks I am getting (2/10?) for writing a >> >>> project >> >>> that has been working since its inception although I have been >> >>> using it for a month now without issues. Furthermore, I don't want to >> >>> use shell scripts or any interpreters: those who want to use them can >> >>> easily, or I dare say not so easily, as coding requires commitment, >> >>> especially, if it is done for free as in my case, opt to code a >> >>> network manager in THEIR TIME. >> >>> >> >>> Intellectual myopia or better, the urge to troll and discourage me to >> >>> continue with this project, is preventing those who criticise it >> >>> negatively, not to see the ultimate aim of the project, which is to >> >>> avoid using ifup, ifdown and any interfaces files. However, DEVUAN >> >>> was >> >>> in an urgent need of a network manager, and I offered my help, and >> >>> indeed, humbly presented a NOT SO PROFESSIONAL APPLICATION that >> >>> works. >> >>> Yes, it is not shiny, and it does not create a systray icon from >> >>> where >> >>> it can be invoked, but it works and it is stable. >> >>> >> >>> >From the remarks I am getting, apart from some genuine Devuan DDs, I >> >>> think, I have got a FAIL in this proj
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Hi All, Now netman, the GUI uses a systray icon. Right clicking shows a popup menu and left clicking displays the netman main window. Since there are window manager users and I don't use a window manager, I would like to know whether using a systray icon will negatively impact users of window managers. In other words, is it possible to display a systray icon in a window manager? If not I will need to do something about that. Please give me feedback. Edward On 26/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: > If you know the essids and the corresponding password you can reenter > these by clicking the New button and filling the essid and password. > You can also switch between obfuscating the password chars and seeing > exactly what you type. > > netman uses an algorithm where it gives first priority to the best > wifi signal available provided a corresponding essid file exists. So, > if you are away from say wifiX, netman will not attempt to use it > unless you force to do so. > > Edward > > On 26/09/2015, Hendrik Boom wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 01:25:09PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: >>> This is a screen shot with the Edit dialog shown. >>> http://postimg.org/image/9obv7fnlp/ >> >> >> Your aerial view walpaper is lovely. It's on the verge of giving me >> vertigo. >> >> I'm wondering if there are technical reasons to switch from wicd to >> netman. As far as I know, wicd is systemd-free. Is there any reason to >> suspect it's going to be otherwise? >> >> There is a nontechnical reason, of course, which is supporting our own >> developers. >> >> The main issue is I have with switching is that if I have trouble with >> it, whether it's my fault or not, I'll lose the convenient network >> access I use to ask for help. >> >> I'm currently using wicd, and there's one user-oriented feature it seems >> to lack. When I'm at a site where they provide wifi, it detects it, >> then allows me to enter the local wifi password. >> >> But when I'm away from it, there seems to be no way to tell it about the >> now-remote site. >> >> Now the occasions on which I want to use it are vanishingly small. But >> is has once happened that I'm initialising a new device, and it would be >> massively convenient not to have to visit every wifi spot I plan to use >> merely to transfer the passwords from the old device to the new. >> >> Can netman do this? >> >> I also like a mode in which I can see the password I'm entering. I'm >> not a great typist, and I'd like to know whether I have the wrong >> password or merely entered it wrong. When my wife broke her wrist, >> correct password typing became an unsurmountable obstacle for her. >> Seeing the password is a security risk, but it's also an invaluable >> accessibility feature. >> >> All in all, considering where you started from, you've done an >> amazing job. I haven't read the code or tried it, but the UI looks >> straightforward and to the point. You have probably learned a lot, too. >> Keep up the good work. >> >> -- hendrik >> >>> >>> On 26/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: >>> > Hi All, >>> > >>> > I was asked for the current netman's frontend GUI screenshot. Here it >>> > is: >>> > http://s13.postimg.org/lirdshy07/2015_09_26_124924_1600x900_scrot.png >>> > >>> > I liked it for its simplicity... but I will have to adapt to what >>> > potential users want. >>> > >>> > Edward >>> > >>> > On 26/09/2015, info at smallinnovations.nl >>> > wrote: >>> >> Edward, >>> >> >>> >> Although i will stay with wicd i am glad that with netman i do have a >>> >> choice. >>> >> And most important of all you actually did something whereas others >>> >> still are sitting on their hands. >>> >> So if someone friendly point out some improvements make us of it. >>> >> And if some dick is just criticizing without any real suggestion for >>> >> improvement just ignore him. >>> >> >>> >> Just my 0,02 >>> >> >>> >>> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 08:04:15 +0200 >>> >>> From: Edward Bartolo >>> >>> To: dng >>> >>> Subject: Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> >>> >>> As many probably remember, when I asked to be allowed to create a >>> >>> network manager, I made it clear that I have NO FORMAL TRAINING IN >>> >>> PROGRAMMING. What I know, has been learnt by buying expensive books >>> >>> from specialised booksellers and studying on my own. >>> >>> >>> >>> Now regarding the bad marks I am getting (2/10?) for writing a >>> >>> project >>> >>> that has been working since its inception although I have been >>> >>> using it for a month now without issues. Furthermore, I don't want >>> >>> to >>> >>> use shell scripts or any interpreters: those who want to use them >>> >>> can >>> >>> easily, or I dare say not so easily, as coding requires commitment, >>> >>> especially, if it is done for free as in my case, opt to code a >>> >>> network manager in THEIR TIME. >>> >>> >>> >>> Intellectual myopia or better, the urge to troll and discourage me >>> >>> to >>> >>> cont
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 11:21:43 -0400 Hendrik Boom wrote: > I'm currently using wicd, and there's one user-oriented feature it > seems to lack. When I'm at a site where they provide wifi, it > detects it, then allows me to enter the local wifi password. IIRC wicd uses dbus, which is more and more being corrupted by freedesktop think, if not actual systemd dependencies. SteveT Steve Litt August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] The systemd thought process: was What can I do after netman?
On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 16:34:58 +0200 John Crisp wrote: > On 25/09/15 17:07, Hleb Valoshka wrote: > > I don't see any reason to throw away wicd and replace it with your > > tool. > > Excellent. Who said you had too ? Is it compulsory or obligatory ? I > don't remember seeing that anywhere. :-) John, I bet you've seen that, or something similar, voiced by the systemd fanboiz... On the Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts mailing list, I've been involved in pro-anti systemd skirmishes for a month now. A favorite argument of the systemd fanboiz is "it works great for me, so you don't need something different!" As if we all have the same use case. Oh, and just for the record, if a dbusless alternative to wicd appears, I'll use it every time. The less reliance my system has on dbus, the better I like it. SteveT Steve Litt August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Hi All, netman now has systray icon support. The following are screenshots of how the GUI looks. The menu: http://postimg.org/image/hmpmi1mn1/ The main window: http://postimg.org/image/3qpcg3jcp/ The Detailed Information popup window has been integrated with the main window. This was done so that the GUI looks less fragmented. Now clicking the button for detailed wifi information hides the main window components to display a multiline text edit with the information displayed and a close button underneath. The main window with the components hidden showing detailed wifi information: http://postimg.org/image/o68snvlbt/ The next GUI changes will involve the New/Edit dialog box as users have suggested that netman displays more information. Please give feedback as to what you want. Edward On 26/09/2015, Steve Litt wrote: > On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 11:21:43 -0400 > Hendrik Boom wrote: > > >> I'm currently using wicd, and there's one user-oriented feature it >> seems to lack. When I'm at a site where they provide wifi, it >> detects it, then allows me to enter the local wifi password. > > IIRC wicd uses dbus, which is more and more being corrupted by > freedesktop think, if not actual systemd dependencies. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts > http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Hi Interested Users, Tell me what information should I display on the New/Edit dialog box? I also need some 'artist' who wants to create a couple of icons for netman that will be used to indicate connected and disconnected status. Edward On 26/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: > Hi All, > > netman now has systray icon support. The following are screenshots of > how the GUI looks. > > The menu: > http://postimg.org/image/hmpmi1mn1/ > > The main window: > http://postimg.org/image/3qpcg3jcp/ > > The Detailed Information popup window has been integrated with the > main window. This was done so that the GUI looks less fragmented. Now > clicking the button for detailed wifi information hides the main > window components to display a multiline text edit with the > information displayed and a close button underneath. > > The main window with the components hidden showing detailed wifi > information: > http://postimg.org/image/o68snvlbt/ > > The next GUI changes will involve the New/Edit dialog box as users > have suggested that netman displays more information. > > Please give feedback as to what you want. > > Edward > > On 26/09/2015, Steve Litt wrote: >> On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 11:21:43 -0400 >> Hendrik Boom wrote: >> >> >>> I'm currently using wicd, and there's one user-oriented feature it >>> seems to lack. When I'm at a site where they provide wifi, it >>> detects it, then allows me to enter the local wifi password. >> >> IIRC wicd uses dbus, which is more and more being corrupted by >> freedesktop think, if not actual systemd dependencies. >> >> SteveT >> >> Steve Litt >> August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts >> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust >> ___ >> Dng mailing list >> Dng@lists.dyne.org >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >> > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] (1) netman package? (2) reliablility of devuan testing?
On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 01:31:25PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 11:21:43 -0400 > Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > > I'm currently using wicd, and there's one user-oriented feature it > > seems to lack. When I'm at a site where they provide wifi, it > > detects it, then allows me to enter the local wifi password. > > IIRC wicd uses dbus, which is more and more being corrupted by > freedesktop think, if not actual systemd dependencies. That may be the technical reason I was looking for for switching from wicd. Well, at least a quasitechnical reason. I looked for a netman package in aptitude; it doesn't seem to be around in jessie yet. Should I look in ascii or ceres? Or aren't we at that stage yet? With debian on my laptop I followed testing until jessie became stable, then switched to jessie, planning to move to devuan when ready. Which I did. It's now exclusively devuan. Even Windows is gone. Is ascii generally as reliable as debian testing used to be? If so I should probably upgrade. Is debian testing even still as stable as debian testing used to be? -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Ed, if you're taking requests for features, I've got some... 1. netman --help (to show what command line options exist) 2. If the config file will accept a definition for an interface other than wlan0 or eth0, a commented example showing the correct syntax would help. And while you're thinking about this, maybe it's a good time to think ahead to when the interface names will change, if you haven't already done that. (e.g. from ethX to enp-blah.) 3. Some way to display the IP address when connected, either on-demand or along with the word, Connected, or some other way. fsr @Hendrik, Here's are the places I know where wireless connection information gets stored. You can probably just copy the files over to a new system. I've never tried it. /var/lib/wicd/configurations/* /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections fsr On 09/26/2015 12:13 PM, Edward Bartolo wrote: > Hi All, > > Now netman, the GUI uses a systray icon. Right clicking shows a popup > menu and left clicking displays the netman main window. > > Since there are window manager users and I don't use a window manager, > I would like to know whether using a systray icon will negatively > impact users of window managers. In other words, is it possible to > display a systray icon in a window manager? If not I will need to do > something about that. > > Please give me feedback. > > Edward > > > On 26/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> If you know the essids and the corresponding password you can reenter >> these by clicking the New button and filling the essid and password. >> You can also switch between obfuscating the password chars and seeing >> exactly what you type. >> >> netman uses an algorithm where it gives first priority to the best >> wifi signal available provided a corresponding essid file exists. So, >> if you are away from say wifiX, netman will not attempt to use it >> unless you force to do so. >> >> Edward >> >> On 26/09/2015, Hendrik Boom wrote: >>> On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 01:25:09PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: This is a screen shot with the Edit dialog shown. http://postimg.org/image/9obv7fnlp/ >>> >>> >>> Your aerial view walpaper is lovely. It's on the verge of giving me >>> vertigo. >>> >>> I'm wondering if there are technical reasons to switch from wicd to >>> netman. As far as I know, wicd is systemd-free. Is there any reason to >>> suspect it's going to be otherwise? >>> >>> There is a nontechnical reason, of course, which is supporting our own >>> developers. >>> >>> The main issue is I have with switching is that if I have trouble with >>> it, whether it's my fault or not, I'll lose the convenient network >>> access I use to ask for help. >>> >>> I'm currently using wicd, and there's one user-oriented feature it seems >>> to lack. When I'm at a site where they provide wifi, it detects it, >>> then allows me to enter the local wifi password. >>> >>> But when I'm away from it, there seems to be no way to tell it about the >>> now-remote site. >>> >>> Now the occasions on which I want to use it are vanishingly small. But >>> is has once happened that I'm initialising a new device, and it would be >>> massively convenient not to have to visit every wifi spot I plan to use >>> merely to transfer the passwords from the old device to the new. >>> >>> Can netman do this? >>> >>> I also like a mode in which I can see the password I'm entering. I'm >>> not a great typist, and I'd like to know whether I have the wrong >>> password or merely entered it wrong. When my wife broke her wrist, >>> correct password typing became an unsurmountable obstacle for her. >>> Seeing the password is a security risk, but it's also an invaluable >>> accessibility feature. >>> >>> All in all, considering where you started from, you've done an >>> amazing job. I haven't read the code or tried it, but the UI looks >>> straightforward and to the point. You have probably learned a lot, too. >>> Keep up the good work. >>> >>> -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Ed, if you're taking requests for features, I've got some... 1. netman --help (to show what command line options exist) 2. If the config file will accept a definition for an interface other than wlan0 or eth0, a commented example showing the correct syntax would help. And while you're thinking about this, maybe it's a good time to think ahead to when the interface names will change, if you haven't already done that. (e.g. from ethX to enp-blah.) 3. Some way to display the IP address when connected, either on-demand or along with the word, Connected, or some other way. fsr @Hendrik, Here's are the places I know where wireless connection information gets stored. You can probably just copy the files over to a new system. I've never tried it. /var/lib/wicd/configurations/* /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections fsr On 09/26/2015 12:13 PM, Edward Bartolo wrote: > Hi All, > > Now netman, the GUI uses a systray icon. Right clicking shows a popup > menu and left clicking displays the netman main window. > > Since there are window manager users and I don't use a window manager, > I would like to know whether using a systray icon will negatively > impact users of window managers. In other words, is it possible to > display a systray icon in a window manager? If not I will need to do > something about that. > > Please give me feedback. > > Edward > > > On 26/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> If you know the essids and the corresponding password you can reenter >> these by clicking the New button and filling the essid and password. >> You can also switch between obfuscating the password chars and seeing >> exactly what you type. >> >> netman uses an algorithm where it gives first priority to the best >> wifi signal available provided a corresponding essid file exists. So, >> if you are away from say wifiX, netman will not attempt to use it >> unless you force to do so. >> >> Edward >> >> On 26/09/2015, Hendrik Boom wrote: >>> On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 01:25:09PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: This is a screen shot with the Edit dialog shown. http://postimg.org/image/9obv7fnlp/ >>> >>> >>> Your aerial view walpaper is lovely. It's on the verge of giving me >>> vertigo. >>> >>> I'm wondering if there are technical reasons to switch from wicd to >>> netman. As far as I know, wicd is systemd-free. Is there any reason to >>> suspect it's going to be otherwise? >>> >>> There is a nontechnical reason, of course, which is supporting our own >>> developers. >>> >>> The main issue is I have with switching is that if I have trouble with >>> it, whether it's my fault or not, I'll lose the convenient network >>> access I use to ask for help. >>> >>> I'm currently using wicd, and there's one user-oriented feature it seems >>> to lack. When I'm at a site where they provide wifi, it detects it, >>> then allows me to enter the local wifi password. >>> >>> But when I'm away from it, there seems to be no way to tell it about the >>> now-remote site. >>> >>> Now the occasions on which I want to use it are vanishingly small. But >>> is has once happened that I'm initialising a new device, and it would be >>> massively convenient not to have to visit every wifi spot I plan to use >>> merely to transfer the passwords from the old device to the new. >>> >>> Can netman do this? >>> >>> I also like a mode in which I can see the password I'm entering. I'm >>> not a great typist, and I'd like to know whether I have the wrong >>> password or merely entered it wrong. When my wife broke her wrist, >>> correct password typing became an unsurmountable obstacle for her. >>> Seeing the password is a security risk, but it's also an invaluable >>> accessibility feature. >>> >>> All in all, considering where you started from, you've done an >>> amazing job. I haven't read the code or tried it, but the UI looks >>> straightforward and to the point. You have probably learned a lot, too. >>> Keep up the good work. >>> >>> -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Jaromil writes: [...] > when I read the C part of netman I can't stop thinking it should be > just shell code, since its spawning so many external processes. It can't be "just shell code" because it is (or was when this was communicated for the last time) supposed to be installed setuid-0 in order to enable the GUI to perform certain actions "as root". Considering this, it should really avoid using the shell for anything. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Edward Bartolo writes: [...] > I dedicated hours upon hours of my free time, often resulting in a > headache to complete the project within reasonable time. However, I go > a beating and a severe bashing instead of being guided to do better > the next time. As soon as you do something, especially if it seems to be something reasonably simple, a lot of "cable TV guys"[*] will feel the overwhelming urge to tell you that "it sucks and you suck, too". Since that's all they ever do and it's totally useless, they're best ignored. [*] Supposed to refer to people who spend their days with a remote in hand, aimlessly zapping from channel to channel because "everything sucks" (as frequently communicated to anyone willing to listen). ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 08:16:06AM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 08:04:15AM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > I dedicated hours upon hours of my free time, often resulting in a > > headache to complete the project within reasonable time. However, I go > > a beating and a severe bashing instead of being guided to do better > > the next time. > > > > Again guys, the quality of a software does not improve of get worse if > we spend more words about its pluses and minuses, or if we bring in > the discussion more motivations and excuses about what we think is a > plus or a minus. A software is good if it serves a need or solves a > problem in a good way, whatever your notion of "good" is. If this > happens, (some) people will use, change and improve it, and the > software will survive. Otherwise, it will fall into oblivion, as has > already happened for 99.9% of the code written so far. > > For Edward: I know it is almost unavoidable to get comments on the > software you produce at a personal level, but as in any other creative > activity, the take of the creator on his own creature might (or would? > or should?) differ from the opinion of others. You should probably > accept it and live with that, if you want to continue writing > software. It's just impossible to make everybody happy, so if you want > to keep coding just code for your own happiness, as every free > software coder does. Sometimes your happiness will match the happiness > of somebody else, while most of the times it will not. If this is a > major problem for you, go choose another creative activity and have > fun :) For Edward: You'll get feedback from users. when I had a job as a professional programmer, my best days were the ones when I got actual feedback from users, telling me what was wrong with the software I was in charge of (often not written my me) or what they wanted done. Someone was actually using what I was working on! That gave it an immediacy and a purpose I never got from anything I just wrote for myself. And I learned from it. I ended up discovering that you can't copy C string by assuming they stop at the first zero byte. (Korean two-byte characters sometimes contain zero bytes). When the C interpreter I was maintaining failed to process a users's program that was submitted in strict ANSI mode, I discovered that code in Sun's include files violated the standard. But the program that gave me the most joy was way back in the 60's, when I was a complete amateur. THe keypunch operators had typed in a few thousand cards of what now would be called a relational data base, leaving the fields with missing data blank. Disaster. The program that read it would read the cards in a way that read blanks as zeros, which, unfortunately, were valid data. They started retyping it with a newly chosen escape value to reppresent missing data. I intervened. I wrote a short assembly-language routine that read the cards in alphanumeric mode, which could distinguish spaces from zeros, and punch them out with theproper missing-data code. They were much pleased. They really didn't want to repunch all those data again. I gather that it had been relatively unpleasant, exacting work. I was pleased too, to have saved them a lot of that work. About the code you wrote. As I said elsewhere, I haven't read it. But I have every intention of installing it when it's available from devuan as a netman package. Currently I don't find it in jessie. I hope I'll get to install it when it's ready, in this release or the next. You are learning. Keep at it. -- hendrik > > Having said that, I also had a quick look to netman C code, and it > seemed a bit kinky to me, even putting aside the fact that it does not > compile out of the box, which is quite irritating as well... A to what you should do next, please shepherd into the devuan release. And follow up by maintaining it. Once it gets to users, you'll discover what else it needs. I mean what else turns out to be essential functionality no on thought of yet. I don't mean decorating it with prettiness. -- hendrik > > My2Cents > > KatolaZ > > -- > [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] > [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] > [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] > [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Hi Edward, Using systray icons will not impact negatively to window manager users. I'm a window manager user. Panels like tint2, bmpanel, etc... support systray icons. Aitor. El 26/09/15 a las 22:13, Edward Bartolo escribió: Hi All, Now netman, the GUI uses a systray icon. Right clicking shows a popup menu and left clicking displays the netman main window. Since there are window manager users and I don't use a window manager, I would like to know whether using a systray icon will negatively impact users of window managers. In other words, is it possible to display a systray icon in a window manager? If not I will need to do something about that. Please give me feedback. Edward ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
On Mon, 21 Sep 2015 18:41:27 +0200 Edward Bartolo wrote: > Dear All, > > Since netman is effectively ready, and I can still offer my coding > services to the Devuan project, I would like to ask what task should I > take as my second attempt at helping with the project? Hi Edward, If I had one thing to ask you to do (besides what you just did), it would be to fork ncurses and make it so that it would work with Valgrind when you use a specific command line option. As ncurses stands now, you must recompile it to make it not erroneously tell Valgrind that it's leaking like a sieve. I'm a brave guy, but I'm not going to recompile nCurses and everything that depends on it. I've asked Thomas Dickey several times for this change, and his attitude is "probably never." SteveT Steve Litt August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
