Re: [DNG] libpam-xdg-support / libpam-systemd
It maybe helps that i now changed project visibility from "private" to "public" *sighs* This has been corrected - Share and enjoy! On 09/13/2015 03:13 AM, Isaac Dunham wrote: On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 10:32:13PM +0200, tilt! wrote: https://git.devuan.org/tilt/xdg-compat git.devuan.org[0: 78.26.97.141]: errno=Operation timed out And a web browser redirects to a login page. [...] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan Mirror
The issue with devuan's repositories has been solved. Thanks for your effort. Aitor. El 12/09/15 a las 14:00, Franco Lanza escribió: On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 04:34:00PM -0500, Rod Rodolico wrote: >I sent an e-mail about a week ago to the list. I'm willing to mirror >Devuan, I just do not have the information I need to do it. > >If anyone wants another mirror. It would be in Dallas, US. I just need >to know how much space and bandwidth it will need, plus instructions on >how to set up the mirror. It's early to mirror devuan repositories, please stand on and wait for when we will release the beta. After the beta, we will start talking about mirroring repositories too. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] libpam-xdg-support / libpam-systemd
On 09/13/2015 03:13 AM, Isaac Dunham wrote: [...] > > One detail I'm not sure if you implemented: I suggested that default > be to create .../$UID if needed, but you can pass "-n" to create a > new session. The software provides config files and a script in /etc that could be modified to implement different mechanisms than the default one which is "At start of every X session by user $UID, set XDG_RUNTIME_DIR to $rundir_prefix/$UID and make sure that this directory exists." The script that implements this is "/etc/xdg-compat/runtime-dir.sh". The script operates in a clean environment, therefore, per-user envvars like XDG_SESSION_COOKIE are not available. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Automatic connections: expected behaviour from netman
Hi all, As I am approaching the final stages of Pre-Alpha development, I would like to ask how netman should behave when 'automatic connections' are enabled. Needless to state the obvious, here, we are not doing Microsoft, but rather, we want to keep netman as simple as it can be. Yes, there are opinions contrary to what I am doing, but the world is such, that we cannot please everyone. At the moment, I am thinking about how netman should behave when automatic searching and connecting to wifi hotspots is enabled. I already have an idea how this can be achieved, but I want to use the least of processing time possible, knowing from experience how network managers that think for themselves can be made to almost clog the system. As far as I am concerned, manual connections to a wifi is enough for me. I only need to click a button, and netman connects. My 'idea' is to use the already existing timer to check whether there is a connection, if not, it calls the function for automatic connections. If when the latter function returns there is still no active connection, netman stops trying to connect automatically until the user tries to connect manually. On startup, the timer would call the function for automatic connections without user intervention if automatic connections are enabled. Edward ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Automatic connections: expected behaviour from netman
Hi all,
Making the above changes is only a matter of a few minutes in Lazarus.
In the mainform:
AlreadyAttemptedToAutoConnect: boolean;
Set the above to false when the form is created;
At the event handlers for all Connect buttons set
AlreadyAttemptedToAutoConnect to false;
In the timer's event do this:
if (not AlreadyAttemptedToAutoConnect) and (HasOption('--auto-conn') then
begin
call auto-connect function;
AlreadyAttemptedToAutoConnect := true;
end;
And its done. :D
Edward
On 13/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As I am approaching the final stages of Pre-Alpha development, I would
> like to ask how netman should behave when 'automatic connections' are
> enabled.
>
> Needless to state the obvious, here, we are not doing Microsoft, but
> rather, we want to keep netman as simple as it can be. Yes, there are
> opinions contrary to what I am doing, but the world is such, that we
> cannot please everyone.
>
> At the moment, I am thinking about how netman should behave when
> automatic searching and connecting to wifi hotspots is enabled. I
> already have an idea how this can be achieved, but I want to use the
> least of processing time possible, knowing from experience how network
> managers that think for themselves can be made to almost clog the
> system.
>
> As far as I am concerned, manual connections to a wifi is enough for
> me. I only need to click a button, and netman connects.
>
> My 'idea' is to use the already existing timer to check whether there
> is a connection, if not, it calls the function for automatic
> connections. If when the latter function returns there is still no
> active connection, netman stops trying to connect automatically until
> the user tries to connect manually.
>
> On startup, the timer would call the function for automatic
> connections without user intervention if automatic connections are
> enabled.
>
> Edward
>
___
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Dng@lists.dyne.org
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[DNG] Xorg dependency on libsystemd
When I check on Arch linux the only dependency they explicitly states is xorg-server-xnest is dependent on libsystemd. I do not have this package installed. When I try to run my os Xorg complains about missing libsystemd There is some package builds in AUR and if I check them I see --enable-systemd-logind under ./configure command So I guess that its this where th dependency comes from. So if I recompile without it maybe I can run without libsystemd installed? Anyone have any experience regarding this? Is it hard to compile and get Xorg to work? Any comments would be most welcome ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Automatic connections: expected behaviour from netman
Hi Edward, On 09/13/2015 02:35 PM, Edward Bartolo wrote: > At the moment, I am thinking about how netman should behave when > automatic searching and connecting to wifi hotspots is enabled. I > already have an idea how this can be achieved, but I want to use > the least of processing time possible, knowing from experience how > network managers that think for themselves can be made to almost > clog the system. Things that come to my mind: These are obvious, and i am sure you already do that anyway: 1. I never would want to be automatically connected to a WiFi i have not manually connected to previously at least once. 2. I never would want to be disconnected from a WiFi just because a different WiFi network becomes available. 3. Manual connections should be preferred over automatic ones. Maybe there is the possibility to have a treshhold of some sort, to avoid rapidly connecting / disconnecting a WiFi network. The WiFi could have a weak signal strength or some other reason that makes it unreliable; the treshhold should go over logins / time, meaning something like this (i picked the actual numbers out of thin air): more than 1 automatic login per minute on SSID X over a period of 2 minutes leads to: disable automatic connection to X for 30 minutes Users could then still connect manually. Kind regards, T. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Automatic connections: expected behaviour from netman
On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 02:35:43PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: > Hi all, > > As I am approaching the final stages of Pre-Alpha development, I would > like to ask how netman should behave when 'automatic connections' are > enabled. > Needless to state the obvious, here, we are not doing Microsoft, but > rather, we want to keep netman as simple as it can be. Yes, there are > opinions contrary to what I am doing, but the world is such, that we > cannot please everyone. > > At the moment, I am thinking about how netman should behave when > automatic searching and connecting to wifi hotspots is enabled. I > already have an idea how this can be achieved, but I want to use the > least of processing time possible, knowing from experience how network > managers that think for themselves can be made to almost clog the > system. May I suggest that you step back and take a look at the big picture? As I see it, the big picture is more-or-less this: -netman is a gui to configure and manage ifup, which uses wpa_supplicant plugins to connect to specific pre-configured wireless interfaces. -ifup is a one-shot tool to configure network interfaces, featuring a great capacity for plugins. It cannot handle wireless itself, but there is a wpa_supplicant plugin. -wpa_supplicant is a daemon designed to autoconnect to wireless networks, supporting roaming and just about every type of wireless network. -the wpa_supplicant plugins are scripts that allow "ifup wlan0" to configure wlan0 in EITHER of two ways: (a) start wpa_supplicant with no config and add a single network: iface wlan0 inet dhcp wpa-ssid "foo" wpa-psk "topsecretpassword" (b) start wpa_supplicant with a pre-defined config containing all the networks, and configure the interface on connection: iface wlan0 inet manual wpa-roam "/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf" iface default inet dhcp It's seemed rather odd to me that netman ignores wpa-roam. HTH, Isaac Dunham ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Xorg dependency on libsystemd
On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 03:51:16PM +0200, shraptor wrote: > When I check on Arch linux the only dependency they explicitly > states is xorg-server-xnest is dependent on libsystemd. > I do not have this package installed. > > When I try to run my os Xorg complains about missing libsystemd > > There is some package builds in AUR and if I check them > I see --enable-systemd-logind under ./configure command > > So I guess that its this where th dependency comes from. > > So if I recompile without it maybe I can run without libsystemd > installed? > > Anyone have any experience regarding this? > > Is it hard to compile and get Xorg to work? systemd-logind integration is via dbus; configure X without dbus or at least without systemd-logind. If you're re-compiling a package, it usually is pretty easy to get X working. HTH, Isaac Dunham ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Automatic connections: expected behaviour from netman
Hi all, By automatic connections I understood netman using the available essids for which it knows the password to connect. This means, it does not attempt to connect if no essid file is found under /etc/network/wifi. Edward On 13/09/2015, ibid...@gmail.com wrote: > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 02:35:43PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> As I am approaching the final stages of Pre-Alpha development, I would >> like to ask how netman should behave when 'automatic connections' are >> enabled. > >> Needless to state the obvious, here, we are not doing Microsoft, but >> rather, we want to keep netman as simple as it can be. Yes, there are >> opinions contrary to what I am doing, but the world is such, that we >> cannot please everyone. >> >> At the moment, I am thinking about how netman should behave when >> automatic searching and connecting to wifi hotspots is enabled. I >> already have an idea how this can be achieved, but I want to use the >> least of processing time possible, knowing from experience how network >> managers that think for themselves can be made to almost clog the >> system. > > May I suggest that you step back and take a look at the big picture? > > As I see it, the big picture is more-or-less this: > > -netman is a gui to configure and manage ifup, which uses wpa_supplicant > plugins to connect to specific pre-configured wireless interfaces. > > -ifup is a one-shot tool to configure network interfaces, featuring > a great capacity for plugins. It cannot handle wireless itself, > but there is a wpa_supplicant plugin. > > -wpa_supplicant is a daemon designed to autoconnect to wireless > networks, supporting roaming and just about every type of wireless > network. > > -the wpa_supplicant plugins are scripts that allow "ifup wlan0" > to configure wlan0 in EITHER of two ways: > (a) start wpa_supplicant with no config and add a single network: > iface wlan0 inet dhcp > wpa-ssid "foo" > wpa-psk "topsecretpassword" > (b) start wpa_supplicant with a pre-defined config containing all > the networks, and configure the interface on connection: > iface wlan0 inet manual > wpa-roam "/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf" > > iface default inet dhcp > > > It's seemed rather odd to me that netman ignores wpa-roam. > > HTH, > Isaac Dunham > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Automatic connections: expected behaviour from netman
On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 05:20:25PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: > Hi all, > > By automatic connections I understood netman using the available > essids for which it knows the password to connect. This means, it does > not attempt to connect if no essid file is found under > /etc/network/wifi. > > Edward The user should bee able to control which connexions are made automatically. There may well be essids which I do not want to be connected to automatically even though I have used them in the past. -- hendrik > > > > On 13/09/2015, ibid...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 02:35:43PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: > >> Hi all, > >> > >> As I am approaching the final stages of Pre-Alpha development, I would > >> like to ask how netman should behave when 'automatic connections' are > >> enabled. > > > >> Needless to state the obvious, here, we are not doing Microsoft, but > >> rather, we want to keep netman as simple as it can be. Yes, there are > >> opinions contrary to what I am doing, but the world is such, that we > >> cannot please everyone. > >> > >> At the moment, I am thinking about how netman should behave when > >> automatic searching and connecting to wifi hotspots is enabled. I > >> already have an idea how this can be achieved, but I want to use the > >> least of processing time possible, knowing from experience how network > >> managers that think for themselves can be made to almost clog the > >> system. > > > > May I suggest that you step back and take a look at the big picture? > > > > As I see it, the big picture is more-or-less this: > > > > -netman is a gui to configure and manage ifup, which uses wpa_supplicant > > plugins to connect to specific pre-configured wireless interfaces. > > > > -ifup is a one-shot tool to configure network interfaces, featuring > > a great capacity for plugins. It cannot handle wireless itself, > > but there is a wpa_supplicant plugin. > > > > -wpa_supplicant is a daemon designed to autoconnect to wireless > > networks, supporting roaming and just about every type of wireless > > network. > > > > -the wpa_supplicant plugins are scripts that allow "ifup wlan0" > > to configure wlan0 in EITHER of two ways: > > (a) start wpa_supplicant with no config and add a single network: > > iface wlan0 inet dhcp > > wpa-ssid "foo" > > wpa-psk "topsecretpassword" > > (b) start wpa_supplicant with a pre-defined config containing all > > the networks, and configure the interface on connection: > > iface wlan0 inet manual > > wpa-roam "/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf" > > > > iface default inet dhcp > > > > > > It's seemed rather odd to me that netman ignores wpa-roam. > > > > HTH, > > Isaac Dunham > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Xorg dependency on libsystemd
On 2015-09-13 16:31, ibid...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 03:51:16PM +0200, shraptor wrote: When I check on Arch linux the only dependency they explicitly states is xorg-server-xnest is dependent on libsystemd. I do not have this package installed. When I try to run my os Xorg complains about missing libsystemd There is some package builds in AUR and if I check them I see --enable-systemd-logind under ./configure command So I guess that its this where th dependency comes from. So if I recompile without it maybe I can run without libsystemd installed? Anyone have any experience regarding this? Is it hard to compile and get Xorg to work? systemd-logind integration is via dbus; configure X without dbus or at least without systemd-logind. If you're re-compiling a package, it usually is pretty easy to get X working. HTH, Isaac Dunham I need to somehow figure out which package needs libsystemd I have a dbus package cleaned of systemd Made a quick test of recompiling xorg-server-* packages but configure complained of no udev. I have no udev but vdev Maybe have to fool this check somehow ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Automatic connections: expected behaviour from netman
On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 06:52:27PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: > That is easy to achieve from the GUI frontend. Just delete the > connections you don't want. > > Edward NONONO! I want to keep them around for when I do need them. I just don't want it automatic. Examples: A company's internal network that I should only connect to in the course of work for that company. A service that charges for usage that I use when there isn't a free service available. -- hendrik > > On 13/09/2015, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 05:20:25PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: > >> Hi all, > >> > >> By automatic connections I understood netman using the available > >> essids for which it knows the password to connect. This means, it does > >> not attempt to connect if no essid file is found under > >> /etc/network/wifi. > >> > >> Edward > > > > The user should bee able to control which connexions are made > > automatically. There may well be essids which I do not want to be > > connected to automatically even though I have used them in the past. > > > > -- hendrik > > > >> > >> > >> > >> On 13/09/2015, ibid...@gmail.com wrote: > >> > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 02:35:43PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: > >> >> Hi all, > >> >> > >> >> As I am approaching the final stages of Pre-Alpha development, I would > >> >> like to ask how netman should behave when 'automatic connections' are > >> >> enabled. > >> > > >> >> Needless to state the obvious, here, we are not doing Microsoft, but > >> >> rather, we want to keep netman as simple as it can be. Yes, there are > >> >> opinions contrary to what I am doing, but the world is such, that we > >> >> cannot please everyone. > >> >> > >> >> At the moment, I am thinking about how netman should behave when > >> >> automatic searching and connecting to wifi hotspots is enabled. I > >> >> already have an idea how this can be achieved, but I want to use the > >> >> least of processing time possible, knowing from experience how network > >> >> managers that think for themselves can be made to almost clog the > >> >> system. > >> > > >> > May I suggest that you step back and take a look at the big picture? > >> > > >> > As I see it, the big picture is more-or-less this: > >> > > >> > -netman is a gui to configure and manage ifup, which uses wpa_supplicant > >> > plugins to connect to specific pre-configured wireless interfaces. > >> > > >> > -ifup is a one-shot tool to configure network interfaces, featuring > >> > a great capacity for plugins. It cannot handle wireless itself, > >> > but there is a wpa_supplicant plugin. > >> > > >> > -wpa_supplicant is a daemon designed to autoconnect to wireless > >> > networks, supporting roaming and just about every type of wireless > >> > network. > >> > > >> > -the wpa_supplicant plugins are scripts that allow "ifup wlan0" > >> > to configure wlan0 in EITHER of two ways: > >> > (a) start wpa_supplicant with no config and add a single network: > >> > iface wlan0 inet dhcp > >> > wpa-ssid "foo" > >> > wpa-psk "topsecretpassword" > >> > (b) start wpa_supplicant with a pre-defined config containing all > >> > the networks, and configure the interface on connection: > >> > iface wlan0 inet manual > >> > wpa-roam "/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf" > >> > > >> > iface default inet dhcp > >> > > >> > > >> > It's seemed rather odd to me that netman ignores wpa-roam. > >> > > >> > HTH, > >> > Isaac Dunham > >> > > >> ___ > >> Dng mailing list > >> Dng@lists.dyne.org > >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > ___ > > Dng mailing list > > Dng@lists.dyne.org > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [DN Offlist G] netman GIT project
Hi aitor, I think, the time has come to start thinking about producing a .deb package for netman. However, we will have to use a post installation script to add the line: "iface wlan0 inet dhcp" to /etc/network/interfaces. The script has also to create a new directory under /usr/bin with the name netman ie /usr/bin/netman will hold both the frontend and the backend. The SUID for backend must be changed to that belonging to root. I do this as follows: chown root:root backend chmod u+s backend A new directory under /etc/network with the name wifi must be created i.e. /etc/network/wifi must be an existing directory. Then, the final steps would be to create a launcher for netman, the frontend. To enable automatic attempts at connecting basing on installed essid files under /etc/network/wifi, the parameter --auto-conn must be passed to netman upon invocation. --auto-conn need not be used and netman would not attempt to connect without user intervention. This feature is for those who want to control what happens on their machine. Edward On 09/09/2015, Steve Litt wrote: > On Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:11:50 +0200 > Edward Bartolo wrote: > >> Oooops, I have a new pair of spectacles that is playing tricks on me, >> especially, since it is the first near-sight spectacles. Before, I >> didn't use any. > > You just turned 40, didn't you? > > As I remember, 40's is a good decade. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts > http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [DN Offlist G] netman GIT project
Hi aitor, I forgot to write that the final step is to let netman be automatically run as soon as a user boots into XFCE4 or desktop or window manager. Edward On 13/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: > Hi aitor, > > I think, the time has come to start thinking about producing a .deb > package for netman. However, we will have to use a post installation > script to add the line: > > "iface wlan0 inet dhcp" > > to /etc/network/interfaces. The script has also to create a new > directory under /usr/bin with the name netman ie /usr/bin/netman will > hold both the frontend and the backend. > > The SUID for backend must be changed to that belonging to root. I do > this as follows: > chown root:root backend > chmod u+s backend > > A new directory under /etc/network with the name wifi must be created > i.e. /etc/network/wifi must be an existing directory. > > Then, the final steps would be to create a launcher for netman, the > frontend. To enable automatic attempts at connecting basing on > installed essid files under /etc/network/wifi, the parameter > --auto-conn must be passed to netman upon invocation. --auto-conn need > not be used and netman would not attempt to connect without user > intervention. This feature is for those who want to control what > happens on their machine. > > Edward > > > On 09/09/2015, Steve Litt wrote: >> On Wed, 9 Sep 2015 18:11:50 +0200 >> Edward Bartolo wrote: >> >>> Oooops, I have a new pair of spectacles that is playing tricks on me, >>> especially, since it is the first near-sight spectacles. Before, I >>> didn't use any. >> >> You just turned 40, didn't you? >> >> As I remember, 40's is a good decade. >> >> SteveT >> >> Steve Litt >> August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts >> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust >> > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Automatic connections: expected behaviour from netman
Hi Hendrik Boom, I will think about implementing your request as it makes sense and it escaped my planning of netman. However, at this time I am very busy which means, I will not be able to implement your wish immediately. Nevertheless, I will make my utmost to do it as soon as I can. Edward On 13/09/2015, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 06:52:27PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> That is easy to achieve from the GUI frontend. Just delete the >> connections you don't want. >> >> Edward > > NONONO! I want to keep them around for when I do need them. I just > don't want it automatic. > > Examples: > > A company's internal network that I should only connect to in the course > of work for that company. > > A service that charges for usage that I use when there isn't a free > service available. > > -- hendrik > > >> >> On 13/09/2015, Hendrik Boom wrote: >> > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 05:20:25PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> By automatic connections I understood netman using the available >> >> essids for which it knows the password to connect. This means, it does >> >> not attempt to connect if no essid file is found under >> >> /etc/network/wifi. >> >> >> >> Edward >> > >> > The user should bee able to control which connexions are made >> > automatically. There may well be essids which I do not want to be >> > connected to automatically even though I have used them in the past. >> > >> > -- hendrik >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 13/09/2015, ibid...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 02:35:43PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> >> >> As I am approaching the final stages of Pre-Alpha development, I >> >> >> would >> >> >> like to ask how netman should behave when 'automatic connections' >> >> >> are >> >> >> enabled. >> >> > >> >> >> Needless to state the obvious, here, we are not doing Microsoft, but >> >> >> rather, we want to keep netman as simple as it can be. Yes, there >> >> >> are >> >> >> opinions contrary to what I am doing, but the world is such, that we >> >> >> cannot please everyone. >> >> >> >> >> >> At the moment, I am thinking about how netman should behave when >> >> >> automatic searching and connecting to wifi hotspots is enabled. I >> >> >> already have an idea how this can be achieved, but I want to use the >> >> >> least of processing time possible, knowing from experience how >> >> >> network >> >> >> managers that think for themselves can be made to almost clog the >> >> >> system. >> >> > >> >> > May I suggest that you step back and take a look at the big picture? >> >> > >> >> > As I see it, the big picture is more-or-less this: >> >> > >> >> > -netman is a gui to configure and manage ifup, which uses >> >> > wpa_supplicant >> >> > plugins to connect to specific pre-configured wireless interfaces. >> >> > >> >> > -ifup is a one-shot tool to configure network interfaces, featuring >> >> > a great capacity for plugins. It cannot handle wireless itself, >> >> > but there is a wpa_supplicant plugin. >> >> > >> >> > -wpa_supplicant is a daemon designed to autoconnect to wireless >> >> > networks, supporting roaming and just about every type of wireless >> >> > network. >> >> > >> >> > -the wpa_supplicant plugins are scripts that allow "ifup wlan0" >> >> > to configure wlan0 in EITHER of two ways: >> >> > (a) start wpa_supplicant with no config and add a single network: >> >> > iface wlan0 inet dhcp >> >> > wpa-ssid "foo" >> >> > wpa-psk "topsecretpassword" >> >> > (b) start wpa_supplicant with a pre-defined config containing all >> >> > the networks, and configure the interface on connection: >> >> > iface wlan0 inet manual >> >> > wpa-roam "/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf" >> >> > >> >> > iface default inet dhcp >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > It's seemed rather odd to me that netman ignores wpa-roam. >> >> > >> >> > HTH, >> >> > Isaac Dunham >> >> > >> >> ___ >> >> Dng mailing list >> >> Dng@lists.dyne.org >> >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >> > ___ >> > Dng mailing list >> > Dng@lists.dyne.org >> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >> > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Automatic connections: expected behaviour from netman
Hi Hendrik Boom, You can achieve what you want by not using --auto-conn. This means, netman would not try to automatically search for an existing essid file matching the wifi sources available in the vicinity. In that case, connection to a wifi can be done on request by clicking a button. This feature is already implemented and satisfies what you want with the added inconvenience of the user having to click a button. Edward On 13/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: > Hi Hendrik Boom, > > I will think about implementing your request as it makes sense and it > escaped my planning of netman. However, at this time I am very busy > which means, I will not be able to implement your wish immediately. > Nevertheless, I will make my utmost to do it as soon as I can. > > Edward > > On 13/09/2015, Hendrik Boom wrote: >> On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 06:52:27PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: >>> That is easy to achieve from the GUI frontend. Just delete the >>> connections you don't want. >>> >>> Edward >> >> NONONO! I want to keep them around for when I do need them. I just >> don't want it automatic. >> >> Examples: >> >> A company's internal network that I should only connect to in the course >> of work for that company. >> >> A service that charges for usage that I use when there isn't a free >> service available. >> >> -- hendrik >> >> >>> >>> On 13/09/2015, Hendrik Boom wrote: >>> > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 05:20:25PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: >>> >> Hi all, >>> >> >>> >> By automatic connections I understood netman using the available >>> >> essids for which it knows the password to connect. This means, it >>> >> does >>> >> not attempt to connect if no essid file is found under >>> >> /etc/network/wifi. >>> >> >>> >> Edward >>> > >>> > The user should bee able to control which connexions are made >>> > automatically. There may well be essids which I do not want to be >>> > connected to automatically even though I have used them in the past. >>> > >>> > -- hendrik >>> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On 13/09/2015, ibid...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >> > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 02:35:43PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: >>> >> >> Hi all, >>> >> >> >>> >> >> As I am approaching the final stages of Pre-Alpha development, I >>> >> >> would >>> >> >> like to ask how netman should behave when 'automatic connections' >>> >> >> are >>> >> >> enabled. >>> >> > >>> >> >> Needless to state the obvious, here, we are not doing Microsoft, >>> >> >> but >>> >> >> rather, we want to keep netman as simple as it can be. Yes, there >>> >> >> are >>> >> >> opinions contrary to what I am doing, but the world is such, that >>> >> >> we >>> >> >> cannot please everyone. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> At the moment, I am thinking about how netman should behave when >>> >> >> automatic searching and connecting to wifi hotspots is enabled. I >>> >> >> already have an idea how this can be achieved, but I want to use >>> >> >> the >>> >> >> least of processing time possible, knowing from experience how >>> >> >> network >>> >> >> managers that think for themselves can be made to almost clog the >>> >> >> system. >>> >> > >>> >> > May I suggest that you step back and take a look at the big >>> >> > picture? >>> >> > >>> >> > As I see it, the big picture is more-or-less this: >>> >> > >>> >> > -netman is a gui to configure and manage ifup, which uses >>> >> > wpa_supplicant >>> >> > plugins to connect to specific pre-configured wireless interfaces. >>> >> > >>> >> > -ifup is a one-shot tool to configure network interfaces, featuring >>> >> > a great capacity for plugins. It cannot handle wireless itself, >>> >> > but there is a wpa_supplicant plugin. >>> >> > >>> >> > -wpa_supplicant is a daemon designed to autoconnect to wireless >>> >> > networks, supporting roaming and just about every type of wireless >>> >> > network. >>> >> > >>> >> > -the wpa_supplicant plugins are scripts that allow "ifup wlan0" >>> >> > to configure wlan0 in EITHER of two ways: >>> >> > (a) start wpa_supplicant with no config and add a single network: >>> >> > iface wlan0 inet dhcp >>> >> >wpa-ssid "foo" >>> >> >wpa-psk "topsecretpassword" >>> >> > (b) start wpa_supplicant with a pre-defined config containing all >>> >> > the networks, and configure the interface on connection: >>> >> > iface wlan0 inet manual >>> >> >wpa-roam "/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf" >>> >> > >>> >> > iface default inet dhcp >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > It's seemed rather odd to me that netman ignores wpa-roam. >>> >> > >>> >> > HTH, >>> >> > Isaac Dunham >>> >> > >>> >> ___ >>> >> Dng mailing list >>> >> Dng@lists.dyne.org >>> >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >>> > ___ >>> > Dng mailing list >>> > Dng@lists.dyne.org >>> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >>> > >> ___ >> Dng mailing list >> Dng@
Re: [DNG] Automatic connections: expected behaviour from netman
On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 08:23:56PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: > Hi Hendrik Boom, > > You can achieve what you want by not using --auto-conn. This means, > netman would not try to automatically search for an existing essid > file matching the wifi sources available in the vicinity. In that > case, connection to a wifi can be done on request by clicking a > button. This feature is already implemented and satisfies what you > want with the added inconvenience of the user having to click a > button. Yes, that would help. Not as convenient as having an autoconnect bit in each essid's data, but certainly usable. -- hendrik > > Edward > > On 13/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: > > Hi Hendrik Boom, > > > > I will think about implementing your request as it makes sense and it > > escaped my planning of netman. However, at this time I am very busy > > which means, I will not be able to implement your wish immediately. > > Nevertheless, I will make my utmost to do it as soon as I can. > > > > Edward > > > > On 13/09/2015, Hendrik Boom wrote: > >> On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 06:52:27PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: > >>> That is easy to achieve from the GUI frontend. Just delete the > >>> connections you don't want. > >>> > >>> Edward > >> > >> NONONO! I want to keep them around for when I do need them. I just > >> don't want it automatic. > >> > >> Examples: > >> > >> A company's internal network that I should only connect to in the course > >> of work for that company. > >> > >> A service that charges for usage that I use when there isn't a free > >> service available. > >> > >> -- hendrik > >> > >> > >>> > >>> On 13/09/2015, Hendrik Boom wrote: > >>> > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 05:20:25PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: > >>> >> Hi all, > >>> >> > >>> >> By automatic connections I understood netman using the available > >>> >> essids for which it knows the password to connect. This means, it > >>> >> does > >>> >> not attempt to connect if no essid file is found under > >>> >> /etc/network/wifi. > >>> >> > >>> >> Edward > >>> > > >>> > The user should bee able to control which connexions are made > >>> > automatically. There may well be essids which I do not want to be > >>> > connected to automatically even though I have used them in the past. > >>> > > >>> > -- hendrik > >>> > > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> On 13/09/2015, ibid...@gmail.com wrote: > >>> >> > On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 02:35:43PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote: > >>> >> >> Hi all, > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> As I am approaching the final stages of Pre-Alpha development, I > >>> >> >> would > >>> >> >> like to ask how netman should behave when 'automatic connections' > >>> >> >> are > >>> >> >> enabled. > >>> >> > > >>> >> >> Needless to state the obvious, here, we are not doing Microsoft, > >>> >> >> but > >>> >> >> rather, we want to keep netman as simple as it can be. Yes, there > >>> >> >> are > >>> >> >> opinions contrary to what I am doing, but the world is such, that > >>> >> >> we > >>> >> >> cannot please everyone. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> At the moment, I am thinking about how netman should behave when > >>> >> >> automatic searching and connecting to wifi hotspots is enabled. I > >>> >> >> already have an idea how this can be achieved, but I want to use > >>> >> >> the > >>> >> >> least of processing time possible, knowing from experience how > >>> >> >> network > >>> >> >> managers that think for themselves can be made to almost clog the > >>> >> >> system. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > May I suggest that you step back and take a look at the big > >>> >> > picture? > >>> >> > > >>> >> > As I see it, the big picture is more-or-less this: > >>> >> > > >>> >> > -netman is a gui to configure and manage ifup, which uses > >>> >> > wpa_supplicant > >>> >> > plugins to connect to specific pre-configured wireless interfaces. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > -ifup is a one-shot tool to configure network interfaces, featuring > >>> >> > a great capacity for plugins. It cannot handle wireless itself, > >>> >> > but there is a wpa_supplicant plugin. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > -wpa_supplicant is a daemon designed to autoconnect to wireless > >>> >> > networks, supporting roaming and just about every type of wireless > >>> >> > network. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > -the wpa_supplicant plugins are scripts that allow "ifup wlan0" > >>> >> > to configure wlan0 in EITHER of two ways: > >>> >> > (a) start wpa_supplicant with no config and add a single network: > >>> >> > iface wlan0 inet dhcp > >>> >> > wpa-ssid "foo" > >>> >> > wpa-psk "topsecretpassword" > >>> >> > (b) start wpa_supplicant with a pre-defined config containing all > >>> >> > the networks, and configure the interface on connection: > >>> >> > iface wlan0 inet manual > >>> >> > wpa-roam "/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf" > >>> >> > > >>> >> > iface default inet dhcp > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > It's seemed rather odd to me that netman ignores wpa-roam. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > HTH, > >>> >> > I
Re: [DNG] [DN Offlist G] netman GIT project
Hi, On 09/13/2015 08:10 PM, Edward Bartolo wrote: > I think, the time has come to start thinking about producing a .deb > package for netman. However, we will have to use a post installation > script to add the line: > > "iface wlan0 inet dhcp" > > to /etc/network/interfaces. Is that really neccessary? How about people who install the package but have no wlan0 or have a hot-pluggable WiFi interface or ... Won't they get errors from that then? > The script has also to create a new > directory under /usr/bin with the name netman ie /usr/bin/netman will > hold both the frontend and the backend. Please allow me to instead recommend exectuable files named "/usr/bin/netman" for the frontend and "/usr/lib/netman/bin/backend" for the backend. Reasons: * Subdirectories of /usr/bin are undesireable, because they will confuse programs that rely on PATH to only contain directories that only contain executables. * It is good practise to name the main application executable the same as the package. Therefore, if the package is called "netman", the main application should also be called "netman". This will leave unprepared users with an improved experience. The backend executable is not really intended for manual invokation. It therefore should not reside in PATH. I understand it to be an "internal binary" which FHS 2.3 section 4 mandates should reside in /usr/lib/ (see [FHS]). > The SUID for backend must be changed to that belonging to root. I do > this as follows: > chown root:root backend > chmod u+s backend No problem, can do that in "debian/netman.postinst". > A new directory under /etc/network with the name wifi must be created > i.e. /etc/network/wifi must be an existing directory. No problem, can do that in "debian/netman.postinst". > Then, the final steps would be to create a launcher for netman, the > frontend. Add file "netman.desktop" to system-wide autostart-folder: * Write a file "netman.desktop" as described in [DESKTOP]. * Let the postinst script copy it to "/etc/xdg/autostart". Add "Debian Menu Entry": * Create a file debian/netman.menu as described in [DMENU]. * Let debhelper do the rest. As a result, XDG compliant desktop environments will autostart the GUI and all Debian-menu-aware window managers will have an entry for the GUI in the "Debian" menu. > To enable automatic attempts at connecting basing on installed essid > files under /etc/network/wifi, the parameter --auto-conn must be > passed to netman upon invocation. --auto-conn need not be used and > netman would not attempt to connect without user intervention. This > feature is for those who want to control what happens on their > machine. The decision if the package should provide the launchers described above is indeed difficult. In my opinion, the optimum would be if, in the running GUI, a possibility to change the autoconnecting behavior on a permanent basis existed, so that, when "netman" is started the next time, auto-connecting would be turned off or on according to the last decision the user made. The default setting would be much less important then. Kind regards, T. Links: [FHS]: Filesystem Hierarchy Standard, Version 2.3. Section 4. Subsection "/usr/lib : Libraries for programming and packages". Subsubsection "Purpose". URL: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE22 [DESKTOP] freedesktop.org. Desktop Entry Specification. Appendix A: Example Desktop Entry File. URL: http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/apa.html [DMENU]: Debian Menu System. Chapter 3 - The menu file URL: https://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/menu.html/ch3.html ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Automatic connections: expected behaviour from netman
On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 05:20:25PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> [moved to the top, in hope that you'll re-read it ;-)]
> > -wpa_supplicant is a daemon designed to autoconnect to wireless
> > networks, supporting roaming and just about every type of wireless
> > network.
> >
> > -the wpa_supplicant plugins are scripts that allow "ifup wlan0"
> > to configure wlan0 in EITHER of two ways:
> > (a) start wpa_supplicant with no config and add a single network:
> > iface wlan0 inet dhcp
> > wpa-ssid "foo"
> > wpa-psk "topsecretpassword"
> > (b) start wpa_supplicant with a pre-defined config containing all
> > the networks, and configure the interface on connection:
> > iface wlan0 inet manual
> > wpa-roam "/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf"
> >
> > iface default inet dhcp
> >
> > It's seemed rather odd to me that netman ignores wpa-roam.
> By automatic connections I understood netman using the available
> essids for which it knows the password to connect. This means, it does
> not attempt to connect if no essid file is found under
> /etc/network/wifi.
What I'm suggesting is that rather than having netman scan for networks
and select one, have netman start a single instance of wpa_supplicant with
all the networks you want to autoconnect to.
I realize that this may take a bit of reworking it, but I anticipate
that the result will use less resources and work better than piling
daemon on daemon just to use a different method of configuration.
Now, assuming that each essid file is something like:
iface wlan0 inet dhcp
wpa-ssid "foo"
wpa-psk
wpa-bar baz
you could convert it to a network entry in wpa-supplicant.conf thus:
network={
ssid="foo"
psk=...
bar=baz
}
If it's not "inet dhcp" or if there are entries in the stanza that
don't start with "wpa-", generate an id string and split all that
out into a new entry in /etc/network/interfaces.
That's my own take on how it should be done, for what it's worth.
HTH,
Isaac Dunham
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Re: [DNG] Xorg dependency on libsystemd
Shraptor: > When I check on Arch linux the only dependency they explicitly > states is xorg-server-xnest is dependent on libsystemd. > I do not have this package installed. > > When I try to run my os Xorg complains about missing libsystemd > > There is some package builds in AUR and if I check them > I see --enable-systemd-logind under ./configure command > > So I guess that its this where th dependency comes from. > > So if I recompile without it maybe I can run without libsystemd > installed? > > Anyone have any experience regarding this? > > Is it hard to compile and get Xorg to work? > > Any comments would be most welcome I got xorg to work on a funtoo box and that without any udev nor libudev. I.e. there is no dependancy. Regards, /Karl Hammar --- Aspö Data Lilla Aspö 148 S-742 94 Östhammar Sweden +46 173 140 57 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [DN Offlist G] netman GIT project
Vintage :-) El 13/09/15 a las 20:10, Edward Bartolo escribió: Edward Bartolo wrote: Oooops, I have a new pair of spectacles that is playing tricks on me, especially, since it is the first near-sight spectacles. Before, I didn't use any. You just turned 40, didn't you? As I remember, 40's is a good decade. SteveT Steve Litt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [DN Offlist G] netman GIT project
Ok, I like XFCE4 of course. Aitor. El 13/09/15 a las 20:13, Edward Bartolo escribió: Hi aitor, I forgot to write that the final step is to let netman be automatically run as soon as a user boots into XFCE4 or desktop or window manager. Edward On 13/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: >Hi aitor, > >I think, the time has come to start thinking about producing a .deb >package for netman. However, we will have to use a post installation >script to add the line: > >"iface wlan0 inet dhcp" > >to /etc/network/interfaces. The script has also to create a new >directory under /usr/bin with the name netman ie /usr/bin/netman will >hold both the frontend and the backend. > >The SUID for backend must be changed to that belonging to root. I do >this as follows: >chown root:root backend >chmod u+s backend > >A new directory under /etc/network with the name wifi must be created >i.e. /etc/network/wifi must be an existing directory. > >Then, the final steps would be to create a launcher for netman, the >frontend. To enable automatic attempts at connecting basing on >installed essid files under /etc/network/wifi, the parameter >--auto-conn must be passed to netman upon invocation. --auto-conn need >not be used and netman would not attempt to connect without user >intervention. This feature is for those who want to control what >happens on their machine. > >Edward > > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [DN Offlist G] netman GIT project
Hi all, The additional ability to recognize wlan1, wlan2, wlan3, etc, in something I will do as soon as I can. Regarding the use of "iface wlan0 inet dhcp" in /etc/network/interfaces, I have no other option unless someone really versed in network configuration provides an alternative that works and that doesn't disrupt the already working code. I have already a germinating idea of how to implement support for wlanN. This is by naming the essid files as wlanX_essid. This way only the essid saving function and the frontend essid listing functions would need to be changed. The connecting functions of the backend would simply parse the filename to extract the device name, and it would be done. However, at this time of the year, I am very busy doing other work besides programming for Devuan. At the moment, I am busy planting my vegetables which cannot wait as that depends on the season, and a couple of weeks makes a whole difference. Edward On 13/09/2015, aitor_czr wrote: > Ok, I like XFCE4 of course. > > Aitor. > > El 13/09/15 a las 20:13, Edward Bartolo escribió: > > Hi aitor, I forgot to write that the final step is to let netman be > automatically run as soon as a user boots into XFCE4 or desktop or > window manager. Edward On 13/09/2015, Edward Bartolo > wrote: >>> >Hi aitor, >>> > >>> >I think, the time has come to start thinking about producing a .deb >>> >package for netman. However, we will have to use a post installation >>> >script to add the line: >>> > >>> >"iface wlan0 inet dhcp" >>> > >>> >to /etc/network/interfaces. The script has also to create a new >>> >directory under /usr/bin with the name netman ie /usr/bin/netman will >>> >hold both the frontend and the backend. >>> > >>> >The SUID for backend must be changed to that belonging to root. I do >>> >this as follows: >>> >chown root:root backend >>> >chmod u+s backend >>> > >>> >A new directory under /etc/network with the name wifi must be created >>> >i.e. /etc/network/wifi must be an existing directory. >>> > >>> >Then, the final steps would be to create a launcher for netman, the >>> >frontend. To enable automatic attempts at connecting basing on >>> >installed essid files under /etc/network/wifi, the parameter >>> >--auto-conn must be passed to netman upon invocation. --auto-conn need >>> >not be used and netman would not attempt to connect without user >>> >intervention. This feature is for those who want to control what >>> >happens on their machine. >>> > >>> >Edward >>> > >>> > > > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
