Re: [dev] Suckless design in Games
Suckless programs like dwm or plan9 tools just do what they have to in a fast, simple, efficient way and extra non-necessary features are not welcome. Sure you can code a game in a way which sucks less, but I think that it's not so easy to say "Less is more" when the main purpose is to entertain. -- Wyrmskull
Re: [dev] Suckless design in Games
On 10/08/2010 16.09, Connor Lane Smith wrote: On 10 August 2010 14:51, lordkrandel wrote: Sure you can code a game in a way which sucks less, but I think that it's not so easy to say "Less is more" when the main purpose is to entertain. I'm not sure I agree with you. There are lots of examples of games about which their simplicity is the most attractive thing. cls As in all fields of art, the purpose goes beyond "effectiveness" and "semplicity" or "productivity". Sure a simple design can be more attractive and addictive, but they say, de gustibus non dispuntanda est. -- Wyrmskull
Re: [dev] Suckless design in Games
> So while I agree that the purpose goes beyond effectiveness and > productivity, I think simplicity is the very essence of Art. cls Do you live in a protestant country? I live in Italy, we have seen plenty of aesthetics. The classical "natural perfection" of the ancient Greek art, Baroque art, Mannerism, the sharp edges of Futurism... I personally don't like to mix personal taste with pragmatism. If anyone wants to build a game with a simple design, and probably very addictive, "Monaco" could be a good start. It has won come IGF prize this year. I bet there could be a suckless implementation with Nethack-like user interface. http://www.pocketwatchgames.com/Mwyim/ No need for examples of bloated games I guess. -- Wyrmskull
Re: [dev] Suckless design in Games
Should I add "It also has a Facebook page"? :) Yeah, it doesn't exist. Yet. But the idea and the video are not bad. I just wanted to show something simple and modern, even if it's probably sucky code. On 10/08/2010 17.06, pancake wrote: if a youtube video is the only reference for this game it just doesn't exist. -- Wyrmskull
Re: [dev] Suckless design in Games
> I believe that form and function are so intimately intertwined that > pragmatism without aesthetic is meaningless. > > cls I believe that real life context greatly affects one's tastes. Psychology is one's own history, with all the experiences life brings. I lived 16 years without Internet and I'm 26. If you want a tool to be functional, it may be required to have a certain shape - either if I like that shape or I don't. Art also has an objectively undefinable function, so you can't decide what a functional art form is. Simplicity is one arbitrary choice. I like Mozart and Minimalism just as much as I like Dadaism or free Jazz, even if they have different forms and subjective functions. It takes me quite some time to write in my crappy english by the way :) -- Wyrmskull
Re: [dev] Suckless design in Games
On 11/08/2010 2.09, Alex Hutton wrote: An idea I had the other day, and this is for dealing with data compartmentation in games, was to write a game in C and use sqlite for all the data. I've never used sqlite so I don't know how the performance would go, but it seems like a good idea to store all the data in a relational database as it makes it less likely that the data structures would have to be refactored during development and it allows me to avoid having to use 'objects'. SQL databases Less Harmful: Tutorial D, pq, BigTable, plain old hierarchical filesystems. from http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/ by Uriel -- Wyrmskull
Re: [dev] Suckless design in Games
I will, however, point out one consequence of that idea: the most noticeable difference between abstract art and abstract mathematics is that abstract mathematics has some aesthetic value. Abstract art can now consist of a canvas painted one color, or mere splatters of paint (or other substances) on a surface; contrast that with the Mandelbrot and Julia sets, or the Hilbert and Peano space-filling curves and von Koch snowflake, or the elegant complexity which arises from the simple axioms of group theory. A pure mathematician does his work to satisfy his curiosity; an abstract artist does his work merely to see what he can get away with. An artist is moved by curiosity about the world and himself just as scientists do in a rational way. The author satisfies this need through his work. You can find beauty in both a paint and a formal description of a theory. One can write songs to have a better and full understanding of what he is feeling and to try to convey his emotions to others, just like mathematicians convey their knowledge about the world through axioms, rules, laws, models. I will also point out that a game does have a function -- to be fun. Define in an objective way: to be fun. :P It is not a tool like hammers, "cat" command or applied maths. I'm thinking about applied coding, pure coding, and applied pure coding. Sounds almost like Kant xD I like Mozart and Minimalism just as much as I like Dadaism or free Jazz, even if they have different forms and subjective functions. I hope you aren't suggesting that Mozart *is* minimalist. It was an example of "elegance", to pinpoint the delta with Dadaism. Robert Ransom -- Wyrmskull
Re: [dev] Suckless design in Games
A computer game is a computer program whose creator intended primarily that human beings enjoy interacting with it. I was just arguing that the idea of "suckless design" may fit not so well in game programming. That's why at a certain point I answered a message in a private way but then the reply came on the mailing list. Sorry for the "crap". > To the extent that this list has a topic, it seems to be ‘the > philosophy of computer programming’. That does not mean that any of > us want to read the kind of crap [that *is* a noun, right?] that > university departments of Philosophy emit. Suckless dev also means discussing about what "suckless design" is. I'll never quit saying: If you are not interested, do not read, do not reply. I'll get back when I have a -n lines patch so you will all be happy. Robert Ransom -- Wyrmskull
Re: [dev] which minimal os
I've found Crunchbang (the minimal one) being stable and light enough for a netbook. My build was based on Ubuntu, but it's stripped enough and you can of course strip it more. I opted for the Openbox wm (not so hardcore) because the keyboard on my netbook (Dell mini 9) is crippled, especially modifiers key (Ctrl,Shift,Alt...), so I still rely much on the touchpad. After a couple of years I can say it's reliable for netbook-use (mail, scripting, surfing, syncing home/work networks, everywhere use). Forums are full of "creative" people who post screenshots every month, nobody flamed me there, there is also some scripting activity... I'm not sure an everyday poster so I can't tell more than this. New Crunchbang (Statler, I think) is Debian based. I never had time to upgrade tho. If I had time I'd test the Archbang. Arch is really customizable and lightweight, even if it's not "TR00" like Plan9. Italian Archlinux community is big, and I've used that distro for a while, just had problems with usb install or wifi drivers, can't remember... I'll give it a try when I find the time to backup, format and reinstall. Wyrmskull On 17/02/2011 9.14, Benoit Chesneau wrote: On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Emmanuel Benisty wrote: On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 1:34 AM, Benoit Chesneau wrote: What would you choose for a really minimal OS? Funny how people can't answer to simple feedback these days. I was looking for experience sharing but it seems this ml was the wrong place. - benoît -- Wyrmskull
Re: [dev] Minimalist software. Should I care?
On 7/4/23 18:06, Nikita Krasnov wrote: > What would be the point of using minimalist software if > bloated and excessively complex programs completely > satisfy all my needs? Probably your needs don't align with the philosophy. I also use `Thunderbird`, as I receive HTML emails. `Firefox`, because well, I have a life and I need it to pay taxes and whatnot. But I use `dwm`, `dmenu`, `neovim` (not suckless). I dislike extra features that I don't understand, or that work in a way that I cannot change. I prefer to setup things exactly how I need and understand. And every time I have a new need, I find it entertaining and instructive to work my way to a solution. I have a metaphore for you: If you had glasses, would you prefer to have a pair that show you messages, contacts, games (and ads), or to have surgery so that you will never need glasses anymore? If you have no social media account, you won't deal with many notifications. If you have no phone you don't need a battery charger. Same way, if you don't need an interpreter because your code is statically compiled, you remove many of the cumulative bugs and security issues of the technological stack. Sometimes we don't need more features: we try to eliminate the needs. And it's a strive, a journey, a diet, not a magical pill. If it's not your style, feel free to avoid it. --- Paolo Gatti
Re: [dev] Suckless Desktop Environment
Suckless should stay as-is, but clarify (as done in this thread) its ideals – as you try to, too. Such rules then can be used to define what »suckless« really is. To "suck less" is about subjectivity. It's a matter of taste. Suckless.org is about software tools available for everybody. Not about ideals, rules or changing the world. That's why in my opinion it doesn't need a fancy logo or a marketing plan but has hg and man page -- Wyrmskull
Re: [dev] [surf] Grave bug reported for Surf in Debian
On 10/02/2012 19:10, Vasudev Kamath wrote: On 16:42 Fri 10 Feb , Nick wrote: 'Grave' eh? That seems like an exageration, to me. Just for information *Grave* doesn't literally mean its a *Grave* bug, but its a severity level used by Debian bugzilla [1]. http://www.wordreference.com/iten/grave -- Wyrmskull
Re: [dev] uriel is gone
On 14/10/2012 23:14, Kurt H Maier wrote: Sorry to have to let you guys know, uriel passed away peacefully a couple days ago. We'll miss him. Kurt This really sucks. I was reading some of the quotes on cat-v just now. -- Wyrmskull
Re: [dev] Re: Starch has a web site
On 08/12/2012 05:30, Kai Hendry wrote: Stick to a mailing list with Web archives. I've always thought that forums, bbs and mailing lists are "plain old hierarchical filesystems" gone astray. These tools represent bad implementations of written communication between users. Imagine threads as folders, mails as files, subthreads as subfolders. Users should be able to create their topics and posts, but not to modify or delete anything. The mantainer can compress the topics with gz when it's time to make an archive. If you do not care about their user base, and also do not care about integration with mail clients, just share a folder over 9p, FTP, HTTP or whatever. SMTP and POP suck hard. -- Wyrmskull
Re: [dev] Re: Starch has a web site
On 08/12/2012 15:26, Strake wrote: The forum could be a mere sticky directory, which would allow all normal forumnal activities. The difficulty is how to share it: the only user ID is the server's, so UID checks are in vain; even with 9p, which can authenticate a remote user, it must then set its UID, and I will not have such a server working as root! I could check UIDs in the server, but that means more code... A mailing list is easier to configure. In this case, I'm limited too by the host machine, which is not mine. That's why mailing lists are still in use nowadays. It just makes me dream about what I would do if I had the time. -- Wyrmskull
